 training, there are a bunch of actors and actresses who you watch them in things and they're totally believable. They've got the accent down and you're like, okay, you're American or the other way around, you're English. Yeah. And then there are other actors and actresses where you're like, I think you need to go back to school. Right. Or there'll be somebody where it's like, okay, they're doing a perfect job. But I know they're Australian. So you kind of were like, oh, I heard it just then. Yeah, really though, I don't know. There'll be like one word that's just to go the way. Well, you know, that's the mark of a good actor in general is that you forget like, oh, that's, you know, Don Cheadle or, you know, whoever, and they are the person they're portraying. Like that was the problem for me with so many Tom Cruise movies, because every time I saw one, it's like, oh, it's Tom Cruise, you know, the Mission Impossible guy or Tom Cruise, the last samurai or Tom Cruise, the NASCAR driver or Tom Cruise, the top gun. Like it was just Tom Cruise first and then whatever character he was second. You just can't get out of your head. Yeah. Tom Cruise playing Tom Cruise playing the last samurai. No, you're not the last samurai. It wasn't his greatest role. But you know, I saw it in the theater. Hey, so just before we get started, we've got a few minutes left, but just to remind everybody, the quick hits, the stuff in blue, I kind of go through real quickly. If you've got anything to chime in on, please feel free to do so, but it's not much of a discussion. We're just sort of getting through them and more of a headline thing. And then we'll unpack all of our top stories. So this is the chatter story and everything below it. Then we will get into our story that Erin, I'm going to lean on you for, for some of these very fascinating factoids about geographical and demographic implications for AI and how should we all, we should all be super scared. Some of us more than others. And Kiki, of course, I'll throw it to you as much as possible and please chime in as much as you can. And we will read an email. This is actually from somebody who was responding to Tom's editor's desk column, which is something that we offered patrons. So I'll set that up a little bit. The gist of it is that people have brand loyalty, sometimes for reasons they can't even explain. I might just go around the horn a little bit and say, you know, who are all the brands that we feel loyal to, if any, then we'll, you'll be able to plug both of what you've got working on and we'll say goodbye. And that'll be our show. Like if, if you have the rundown open, you'll notice at the top, the line one will change color either to like an orange or yellow and two are red. If you see it changing now. And then a gray, that just indicates yellow is usually like a, like a 45 second warning like, oh, you should be wrapping up by now. Red is like, oh, we really need to move on. Yeah. And Roger and I will be looking at that stuff. So don't worry about it too much. But yeah, just, it's just sort of a little thing to keep in the back of our mind. If we have a healthy discussion and it turns red, it means good. We had a lot to talk about. But there's, you know, those are, I mean, I have times, but they're pretty flexible. Like, if you guys have a lot of really interesting things to say, no, I'll, yeah, please don't, yeah, don't hold off on anything you really want to contribute because of the colors. Just a, just something to keep us on track. Yeah. And it's, yeah. And Sarah will push things as they need to go. Yes. You just say, stop talking, Kiki. Kiki, that's enough. You're too full of good ideas. You should write a book. Take it to the speaking science, too. Oh, and Sarah, you're cool with reading. Yeah. I just changed it a little bit at the top. Yeah, I see it. So I'm recording and then I'll bring up the music, but you will need to catch it whenever you start. Okay. All right. Good stuff. I'll count myself in then. It's 130 and let's do a show. All right. In three, two, many folks in our audience have supported independent news directly for up to five years. Be like them. Become a DTS member today at Patreon.com slash DTNS. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, January 28th, 2019. From Studio Feline, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Tom is out on vacation this week. So we are going to be joined by... Yeah. Tom is, thankfully, have a little downtime this week. Roger and I are super excited to have not only Kiki Sanford, host of this week in Science. Hey, Kiki. Hello. It's great to meet you. Thank you. Good to have you. We also have Erin Carson, reporter from CNET. Hi, Erin. Hello. It's a full house today. We got Roger and the three ladies. We had a spirited conversation before the show started about insects. Which we'll just go ahead and leave in the pre-show. But first... I'm just crawling. Yeah, exactly. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Dropbox announced plans to acquire the electronic signature company, HelloSign, for $230 million in cash, which is the largest acquisition in the company's history. HelloSign will operate independently with its CEO, Joseph Walla, reporting directly to Dropbox SVP of Engineering and Product, Quentin Clark. Dropbox says, don't worry, it will continue to work with other electronic signature providers as well. For now, anyway. In a note to investors, Nvidia lowered Q4 revenue guidance, citing, quote, deteriorating macroeconomic conditions, particularly in China. We've heard this one before. The company now expects Q4 revenue of $2.2 billion, which is down 19% from their original $2.7 billion guidance. Nvidia said both data center and gaming divisions would see declining revenue, specifically citing crowded channel inventory, following the end of the cryptocurrency mining boom. So I guess there's some gamers out there who are excited that GPU prices have gone back down. And the Bluetooth Special Interest Group, also known as SIG, which is a nonprofit organization that has overseen Bluetooth development since way back in 1998, announced the upcoming Bluetooth 5.1 for developers that integrates new direction finding features into Bluetooth-enabled products. So this is a little bit more similar to GPS. The new feature can pinpoint exactly where another Bluetooth 5.1-enabled object is down to the centimeter, rather than to within a few meters, as it has been thus far. All right, let's talk a little bit more about Apple and gaming. Alex Heath over at Shutter site sources that report that Apple is in the early stages of planning a subscription game service, which would offer potentially unlimited access to a bundle of games for that typical subscription fee. Apple reportedly began private discussions with game developers to join the service in the second half of 2018. The report also stated that Apple has had talks with developers about exclusively publishing titles and assuming distribution and marketing and other related costs. No word on pricing or the types of games that the service might include. So Erin and Kiki, I am the resident kind of non-gamers. Don't subscribe to any subscription services for gaming at this time, but there are a few. If Apple wants to get into this game in a serious way, it's already a fairly crowded market. What are your thoughts on what the pricing would be and if Apple is a little late to the game here? Yeah, I'm kind of like you, Sarah, where I'm mostly I play the free mobile games on my phone. So that was one of my big questions is the types of games because I think for the crowd of folks who's just there to play something, maybe on their phone and the bus when they have a few minutes, there's a lot of offerings out there already. That said, but the ability of a particular game distributor to get into a deal where they don't have to advertise like through the app store, they potentially do now to get customers to know about their new games that they're putting out on the store. If they are throwing them into a subscription service through Apple, it might make it easier for fans of certain game developers and distributors to access them. I mean, it still has a long way to go to show whether or not they can do it though. It's very interesting because Apple for the longest time is always kind of downplayed gaming aspects on their platform. It's not that they say, no, games can't be played, but it wasn't something like, hey, this is going to be the thing you want to play games on. They've really stressed that over the years. I'm wondering if there is an ulterior motive that they had with implementing this or do they have something bigger down the line? What platform are you targeting? Are you targeting the iPhone? Are you targeting the Apple TV? Are you targeting their laptops? I mean, because it's not like in the same way in Xbox or PlayStation 4 where you have a defined target hardware and you can just write for that and you can unleash whatever shovel where you want. At the same time, they couldn't see like, well, you know what? If we get enough people to play a variation on Farmville or Clash of Clans or whatever, we just get a little bit of a percentage of the microtransactions. It could pat out our bottom line. Well, I think the timing is interesting. If this pans out to be at all in line with Apple offering original content, we're still sort of waiting for how that rollout's going to look like. Gaming and original content as far as the video side, two different things. But if you start thinking of them as something that is offered as a bundle, we all know all of us who work in the podcast world, getting something featured by Apple can be really beneficial, potentially very lucrative. If Apple and a game developer are working together for promotion and visibility and pushing certain games to the forefront, perhaps even working on development in some capacity, that can be really advantageous no matter who you are. And if they're making more money from this game development stuff, maybe it'll balance out some of those loss in sales on the iPhone. All right. Let's talk a little bit about Facebook. We have a few Facebook stories today, but we'll start with Facebook video. Last year, Facebook committed about $1 billion to buying shows for Watch, which is its streaming video service that shows up as a tab within the overall Facebook timeline experience. It's kind of changed a little bit since it started, but it's there. Research company eMarketer estimates that Facebook could take in almost double what YouTube's $4.3 billion in video ad sales made this year when it reports its quarterly earnings on Wednesday. It would be for the year prior, rather, but it expects Watch to account for only a sliver of that whole number. Unlike the Netflix's of the world Facebook has said in the past, it doesn't expect to pay up front for shows in the long term. The ideas that shows will be able to attract enough viewers on Watch so that the producers share of Facebook ad revenue will account for their compensation. Well, I have not personally participated in Watch. I know several individuals in smaller companies that have with varying results. For the most part, I'm still wondering how serious Facebook is about Watch. I think the idea that it would take on YouTube, take on, I don't know, wherever you're seeing a lot of your content, whether it's original programming, something that me or Aaron or Kiki or Roger might upload, all of that stuff. It doesn't seem to be a thing yet in any capacity. Maybe I'm wrong. Aaron, have you been, have you had much experience with Watch thus far? Personally, not a whole lot. I think that it's still kind of at that stage where if it wants to be spoken in the same breath as places like Hulu and Netflix, it kind of needs to produce some type of a buzzwordy hit. The kind of stuff that kind of keeps us going back to those larger platforms to see what else they're offering. I also wonder how much Watch suffers from being part of the overall Facebook experience. For example, Instagram, arguably one of Facebook's most crown jewels. It is certainly owned by Facebook, but it operates independently. You could say the same thing about WhatsApp. In fact, some of Facebook's more interesting products, many people don't realize are Facebook products. I don't know if that means that Watch needs to be bundled in some way that really separates it from the Facebook timeline and also gets it away from people saying, well, I don't want to watch stuff on Facebook. That's weird. I want to watch stuff on yeah, my Apple TV or my cable news subscription. Kiki, as a video producer, how does Watch resonate with you? Well, if they become something similar to YouTube where I can upload my content and then it gets given out to people according to some algorithm and it increases the number of views I can get for content, then that's great as long as they're sharing revenue. Otherwise, if they're trying to develop very specialized deals with producers, I think that the idea that eventually they're going to be asking for those deals on spec is a little unfair to producers who might want to be doing something at a fairly high quality that takes a high budget. It's a double-edged sword. I think Facebook still has a long way to go before they can actually show that they're a good place for video. Canalist published a report showing that smartphone shipments in China, which we know have fallen, fell 14% in 2018 reaching their lowest level since 2013 for a total of 396 million units. This marks the second straight year of decline after a 4% drop in 2017, so much bigger drop last year. The Chinese smartphone market also consolidated with the top five manufacturers claiming 88% of shipments in 2018, which is up from 73% the year prior. Huawei and Vivo bucked the trends and grew their shipments by 16 and 19% respectively. Oppo and Xiaomi each saw single-digit declines with Apple declining 13% on the year and maintaining the number five spot in the country. We've talked in the past about the fact that a weakening Chinese smartphone market has hurt Apple, and we've spoken about that. Of course, there's also the Indian market that Apple has not necessarily seen declines in has just yet to get a foothold in. When it comes to the largest economy in the world, go ahead, Raj. But what you kind of see is a maturing of a market, but also kind of like where consumers are at the plateau. They're like, I got a phone that does everything I need it to, don't need anything new or shiny to replace it. But you also notice that the companies that have seen unit growth were probably eating into the market share of their competitors. So it's not so much that the overall market has grown, but that they've been able to etch and pull market share away from competing like Huawei from Oppo or Apple or Xiaomi. But part of this is this kind of this story that China is kind of the one and only place where you can sell stuff and people will buy. Like, oh, we're going to buy it, we're going to sell it, we're going to make millions in China. At some point, a market could saturate. Eventually, it will get saturated. I think this is where we're at. And they might have to start focusing on not just hardware, but services, something that Apple has been pushing hard towards because once everyone has an iPhone, even if it's not the latest and greatest, they might not need a new phone, but they could definitely use a health service or video watching service or something else. And I think like any economy, look at any economy around the world. If you get enough people who start having, in this case, smartphones that are good, some are fancier than others, but good enough that you're going to get a bunch of people who now have smartphones that don't need to upgrade once a year. Of course, you're going to have a slow in market. Of course, that's going to happen anywhere. So yeah, I think any company who's sort of like, well, don't worry, once we get the Chinese market, we're good to go. It's going to slow no matter where you are. Or do that. We're kind of there as well. Let's move back to Facebook though. A lot of Facebook stories today, recent changes by Facebook also restricted the ability of political transparency activist groups to monitor political ads. So Facebook says that this change was the result of unauthorized access of data by third-party browser plugins. Two companies who targets me and ProPublica say that their web extensions get full consent from users before accessing data. Now in late 2018, Facebook launched a political ad archive to be more transparent. But who targets me co-founder Sam Jeffers says that Facebook's effort was inadequate because it doesn't provide meaningful information on why users are targeted or who's behind the targeting. Oh boy. Facebook targeting. Kiki, how much does this book you? How much do you follow these stories? Because there are many these days. There are so many. And it's just another nail in the coffin for Facebook, I think. I think at this point, Facebook has the onus on them to do better, right? To show the world that they are not this evil company, if that's what they, you know, the face that they want to show. And if they are putting practices into place, putting authentications into place that get in the way of some of these transparency watchdogs, maybe they should be talking to those watchdogs and working with them to make sure that everything can be transparent. Because at this point, it seems like Facebook is still trying to hide stuff. Erin, what are your thoughts on this? I mean, Facebook says we want to be transparent. We're working to provide more transparency. I think a lot of Facebook users don't necessarily understand that's happening or where they can get that information. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, one of the biggest battles, one of the biggest battles Facebook has to deal with is, you know, if they say that they want to provide more transparency, you have kind of like the perception problem. If you see news story after news story come out, showing that maybe that's not the case and that there's all these kind of unsettling things happen and kind of erodes at the general trust. So, yeah, it's a, that's a problem. Well, in the same vein, and this one's pretty interesting, the company, we're still talking about Facebook, released a draft charter as part of a plan announced last November to revamp the way that content policy decisions are made. So this is Facebook specifically, but you might say, well, maybe other companies might adopt the same thing if it works well. Here are the deets. The proposal states that the board will have about 40 members and include experts with experience in content, privacy, free expression, human rights, journalism, civil rights, safety and other relevant disciplines. The member list will be public. Members serve one three-year term automatically renewing just one time. The board will have final say and can reverse Facebook's own decisions when necessary. Cases will be referred through a user appeal process and also directly from Facebook. The board will not include former or current Facebook employees, contract workers or government officials. Kind of sounds like politics. So, okay, so this is on the surface you say, this sounds pretty good. Facebook's going to create this independent board. These will not be Facebook employees. They'll be people who have disciplines in lots of areas that we all care about. This will make Facebook stronger. How much do we feel that this is posturing versus a real new strategy for Facebook going forward considering that so many people are on the platform? I think it's going to take actually showing it, putting it into place and seeing if it works. In a way, it's kind of both. It is posturing, but it's also posturing in a way that says, hey, look, we've created, we're going to plan. And grand, this is still a proposal. It's a draft stage. We're waiting for feedback. It's not finalized, so this is set in stone. But what they want to have essentially is a way to offload political hot potatoes onto someone else that, you know, they say, hey, look, you know, the board's going to handle this particular issue because it involves various countries and political parties that we don't want to deal with it. Let someone else think about it. And when you get mad, we'll say it was our independent board. Yeah. And it's like, you know, in a way, it's kind of building up your own whipping boy, right? Like, I'm going to just set this up. And if anything bad happens, well, you know, we tried our darnedest, but we gave it to this independent board filled with, you know, the finest people we could find or that would be willing to work with us on this board somehow. And I don't know, it'll be interesting. And like what Kiki said, I mean, the proof is in the pudding whether or not this gets implemented and how it gets implemented will be the determining factors. Erin, do you imagine a world where a Facebook independent board can reverse something that Mark Zuckerberg wants to do? I think so much of it just remains to be seen. I remember when the kind of news of this broke in November, I did the write up for CNET and I talked to a few analysts and I remember one of the kind of the main quotes I got was an analyst who was saying, this is all going to come down to structure and substance because right now when we don't really know anything, it does sound like posturing and like, well, we've got to do something. We've got to say something in order to, you know, look as if we are like pushing forward in this matter. So it's, yeah, I think that there's a long way to go. Yeah, we, if I could channel Tom Merritt because he's not here today, he'd say, listen, what they're doing is better than doing nothing. It doesn't mean that this is all posturing. It might actually be extremely helpful. And that's very true. I think we're all in agreement that the way that this shakes out and how effective the board is and how seriously something that the board might disagree with Facebook's own internal executive team on and be able to make real change that affects the general public in ways that we would all agree are good ones is the proof in the pudding. All right, before we get into our discussion topic of the day, or want to remind everybody that we, you can get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes or even less if you subscribe to daily tech headlines at.com. In fact, I'll be doing them tomorrow. Okay, let's get into our discussion story. We mentioned it a little bit earlier in the show of the idea that robots are taking jobs and everybody's worried about it. But what does that really mean? How much jobs that are performed by humans can become autonomous tasks? And how does your geographic location or your demographic area of expertise get affected by this? Erin, you wrote up a really interesting story for CNET that noted a few studies, one in particular that came out last year, that gives us a little bit more insight on who might want to worry and what kind of jobs are specifically affected. Yeah. So the Brookings Institution just put out the study as you mentioned that had this kind of scary number that by 2030, robots could replace humans in about a quarter of all US jobs. And so that's the kind of, we get these studies from time to time that talk about job loss and the future of work. And I always kind of say, you have to look for the gray area between all of them because a lot of it does sound very dire. Okay. Well, doom and gloom aside, if we shouldn't be worried about the fact that, I don't know, a quarter of the jobs that people are performing and getting paid for each day are actually going to turn into autonomous jobs, where do people go from there? And who is at a disadvantage when you're talking about certain demographic groups or where they live? Yeah. So a study like this is interesting because like you said, it starts to break down what kinds of jobs are more or less safe. So they talk about these jobs in terms of high exposure to automation or medium exposure, some of the key things that came out of this were that in this study, it was kind of interesting that I think men were a little bit more exposed to automation than women. I think it was something like 70% of workplace job exposure. I just don't, yeah, that women comprised about 70% of the workplace with low job exposure. It also talked about how folks in more rural areas or smaller metro areas could have a higher risk of being exposed to automation versus folks in big cities, not that if you live in a big city or entirely isolated from the threat of automation. And also kind of the idea that automation could potentially widen some of the inequalities that we see in society already, where certain underrepresented minority groups could stand to be kind of further disadvantaged as automation takes a hold. Kiki, I know as a robot-loving human, you've probably thought about this. No one's going to take your job at this week in science, but what are your thoughts on, especially what Eric had mentioned? There are some studies that point to males being more at risk, but then those studies also say, well, but that's because historically more males are in managerial roles that might be automated because they're potentially higher paying roles and that's where companies can make more money. It's quite nuanced. It's very nuanced. I mean, I think we're going to see areas where income inequality is going to play a major role there. Educational inequality will play a role and also these potential for automation type jobs. And so women, for example, even though they maybe have less of a fear of automation in some places, a lot of the jobs may be secretarial or assistant type jobs that could easily be automated by AI programs. And there's a big question there as to who is going to be able to withstand the automation revolution that is coming. Well, what's fascinating in all this data, and I added one more bit at the bottom with a journalist and a Boston University professor, Ellen Shaw, who wrote a book titled Job Work and its Future and the Time of Radical Change. She makes the point that a lot of the AI, the machine learning that a lot of firms are developing, aren't targeted toward the low end jobs. They're targeted to what Kiki was saying, like middle managerial and upper managerial because that's where they pay the most bucks and that's where they would realize the most savings. And so you have this kind of weird outcome where the stuff on the very bottom probably won't be automated out of existence of the stuff at the very top, but it's everything in the middle. And so... Well, in a lot of us, anybody who's worked at any sort of mid to large size company, you hear that mumbling grubbly about middle management, what do they do? And I think that that does play into this, not that all middle managers are ineffective, not at all, but there is, yeah, there's sort of this swath of the workforce that is somewhere in the middle that can be replaced potentially. And it's not because those people aren't highly skilled, it's because they're in a position that's not actually as skilled as they could be. But then you get to the point of like, okay, well, then what do these people do? Or is there just less of a middle management structure? You know, that's interesting because that's kind of the economy, the disconnect is that even if you're skilled, like your degree for your university degree, skilled, doesn't mean you're safe. I mean, it's both worrisome, but also very eye-opening in that how people perceive jobs isn't necessarily a fix to the number of years of schooling you have or the amount of education, it's this type of education. If you do something creative, you do something very unique that's very hard to automate, you have a higher chance of withstanding on themization versus like, hey, I'm a CPA. I went to school to be a CPA. CPA is all I do. Oh, great. You have a program that can, you know, it's a virtual CPA. I'm kind of worried now, kind of thing. It's such a mixed bag. And I think, and we have what we're having this session earlier, just telling people to skill up, go get an education isn't necessarily the answer. It depends on the education. And I feel like the story that's being told to people to say, hey, this is great. Automation is going to be so good to us because it's going to free up people for those more creative pursuits and different questions. So maybe it will lead to a change in how we think of what work is. Yeah, Erin, in your research, I know the medical industry is something that gets pointed to a lot. Like, doctors have to spend all this time looking at complicated x-rays that a machine could do better so that the doctor can take their expertise and heal this patient that much more quickly. Like this is a good thing. We want automation because we keep some, I don't know, paper pushing out of the equation. But I don't think all industries can look to that and breathe a sigh of relief. Sure. And I think that, you know, I mean, for example, with the medical industry, the report mentioned, you know, you can look at the sort of the paperwork, you know, aspects of it that would be really good to automate. But at the same time, there's a lot of that's that is dependent on social skills, things that we don't really want to automate that you might not necessarily care for the bedside manner of an algorithm. Although I've had some crappy doctors over the years, maybe I would prefer the robot. Hard to say. Sometimes, you know, those algorithms, they can be so sweet and so kind. They never yell, they never judge. They just tell me what I need to do. That's right. Hey, thanks, everybody who participates in our subreddit. You are all better than robots. You could never be automated. You can submit stories and you can vote on others at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. I had a lot of Facebook stories today and we've got a Facebook group as well. If you want to hang out with us on Facebook, facebook.com, slash groups, slash dailytechnewshow is where to go. All right. In the mailbag today, we got one from Aditya who was actually commenting on Tom's editor's desk column called Too Much Choice. It's his latest column. This is for patrons. If you're not familiar, it is a wonderful companion article that goes along with our news that Tom Merritt is doing with great abandon. Aditya said, I moved to the US from India as an adult. Walking into the grocery store was the exact same experience that Tom spoke about and so is my experience now buying electronics in India and that's about having brand loyalty. Whenever I have to buy a new phone for my dad back home, I just end up buying a Samsung. It fits my budget. There's so many choices within Samsung, of course, from other companies like Xiaomi or Oppo or MicroMax. I'm sure they make great phones, but I just want a reliable phone without spending hours researching them, which will only probably have small differences. I end up going with a brand I trust and even within that brand, my deciding factor is usually just price. Just a thought. I'll add to Tom's thoughts and also use this opportunity to compliment you guys on the amazing book. Cheers. Well, thank you, Aditya. I thought Kiki and Erin, I certainly have brand loyalty. Sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, I'm still loyal to Sony, even though I haven't bought a Sony television in years, but it's still something that I kind of hold onto and it's just one of those things. I'd probably say the same thing for Apple, although that's changing a little bit, but I think Aditya makes a good point. Unless you work for the Wirecutter, how many hours do you really want to spend researching this stuff? I think that becomes something that it's not because we're ill-informed, it's because we simply don't have the time. I think that's the way it is for many people and not having the time is a huge reason why branding and brands are so important. You create a brand that people can trust, that they know they can always come to you for quality, and people will. Apple computers, I still love. I've never been an Apple phone fan, but I have my Samsung and I have had several of those in a row. Erin, what are your thoughts? Are you a brand loyalist or does your line of work keep you honest? I try and use a variety of things if I can. I get tied into ecosystems. I think that that most often is the thing that keeps me buying the same thing over and over, but in the non-tech world, I have my car preferences and my guitar preferences and all that kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually in the market for a new car now and I will say, I agree with Tom, there's simply too much choice. It's an embarrassment of riches, certainly, but I'll find a way to complain about the fact that there are too many cars out there. Hashtags for old problems. Exactly. Poor me. Well, speaking of keeping me honest, thanks to Dr. Keegan Sanford for being with us. Keegan, we missed you. It's so nice to see you and let folks know where they can keep up with your amazing work. Thank you for having me on. It's always such a pleasure. You can find me at twist.org, T-W-I-S-dot-o-r-g for my podcast and you can subscribe on YouTube, Google, and what's the other place? iTunes. Yes, that other one. Perhaps even Facebook Watch. Yes, perhaps. We'll see. You can find me on Twitter at Dr. Keegan. Excellent. Erin Carson, thanks also for being with us all the way from Kentucky. Besides Keepin' Warm, let folks know where they can keep up with your work. Yeah, you can always find me on CNET.com and on Twitter. I'm just at Erin Carson. Excellent. Well, thank you both for being with us. Also, thanks to our patrons. Our goal each month, you know it, is to get at least one more patron than last month. Just one and more is even better, but just one. That's all we ask. You could be the person that puts us over the top. You can become a DTNS member or be a recruiter. Get an ad-freed RSS feed, special episodes from Tom on how we do the shows and behind the scenes stuff, special episodes looking back on tech news of yesteryear and lots more. You can sign up at Patreon.com slash DTNS. We also have a store. If you want a mug, maybe a sweatshirt, maybe a hat. Got good hats. DTN at dailytechnewshow.com slash store is where to go or buy somebody a gift. They're real nice. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're also live money through Friday. If you can join us live, please do for the 30 p.m. Eastern 2130 UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live back tomorrow with Patrick Beja. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more shows like this at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. Excellent show, ladies. Thank you so much. You guys are the best. Yeah, it was fun. It was very fun. Good stiff. You pressed all the right buttons. You pressed every button right, and it's so nice to hear more of Roger. Oh, sorry. I didn't realize it was that loud. Sorry. No. That's not what she meant. I meant I'd like to hear you pipe in more. Oh, no, not that I heard you at a higher decibel. I'm sorry. We like you, Roger. Just take the compliment. It's fine. I broke Discord's audio because I cranked up the audio too much. Oh, oh, oh, I see. Okay, we're talking about two different things. And you know what, play the guitar in that rift. Oh, those Discorders can handle it. They love volume. That was a great show. What do we want to call it? I can't do anything with the show until after GDI. So because I have to cut it out. Well, let's talk about some show title options. Facebook says this will work. Just watch. That's funny. Apple's Oregon Trail has not died of dysentery. Oh, at the gaming store. I was like, what? That's very clever. Almost. No jam has to be more FOMO, Fear of Machinery Output. Oh, that's good. That's good. Or have such a good day. Well, that's sort of, that's almost a show across everything. Oh, Strike It Rich. Just giving it a go. A show without merit. Yes. Well, that's right below Roger, the three ladies. That sounds like a fairy tale. Right. Knock, knock, knock. Have any porridge? I don't actually remember how Goldilocks and the three bears, like there was, what was the moral of the story? Oh, go bust it into someone's home and eat their stuff. No, no, because it wasn't the thing, though, that the mama bear and the daddy bear, they were too big or too much porridge, but then the baby bear was just right. The daddy's porridge was too hot. The mama's porridge was too cold. The little bear's porridge was just right. They found her, right? Didn't she like, she was sleeping in the bed because she was so comfortable. And then depending on which one you read, she either got away or she got eaten. Yep. I don't remember her ever getting eaten. I thought it was just the like, the brother's grim. I think she was eaten. Yeah. Oh, okay. So that is the moral of the story. All of those versions are like significantly darker. Right. So Roger was right. It's don't go into a bear's home. They're not using waterfalls. Stick to your cracked food. You're going to take a nap and they're going to eat your comfortable bed. All these things that belong to somebody else, they ain't yours. Don't sleep in that bear's bed no matter how you get out. Yes. I remember a very different version where it was like, yeah, it's like, what, what was the takeaway? I don't know. Find the thing that fits you best and go with that. Maybe it's the baby bear's stuff. But yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Brother's grim. Everything in moderation. I suppose. Yeah. I like fear of machinery output. Cool. FOMO it is. Yay. FOMO. Erin and Kiki, please stay with us as long as you like. But I know you're both busy. So I gotta run in about a minute or two. You had to balance. Okay. Whatever. We're so happy that you were with us today. Yeah, it was great. Especially all the traditional stuff. Part of the spider. Yeah, that's right. We're putting this to our pre-show. You're going to have to catch Good Day Internet to find out what you missed. What did you miss? It was all the creepy crawlies. You know what? We learned something about a jellyfish or wasn't a jellyfish. Right. The jellyfish that wasn't. The, you know, the mosquitoes we talked about. Right. Mosquitoes potentially actually being useful. Who knew? Yeah. I'm still, I don't know. They're still pretty horrible, but, you know. It's a challenge. You know, the next year versus helping the environment. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Yeah. I'm not ready to embrace the mosquito just yet. You know, it's funny that I, I hear a lot of people, rather I think you're one of them actually saying, you know, there's more mosquitoes around the LA area than there used to be where the people recall having to deal with. I, I'm lucky. I don't, I don't think I've been bitten by a mosquito. Well, I'm sure I have. I was eating a live last year. I had so many flies on me. And, you know, it's standing in water and, and temperature and all sorts of stuff, but. I think it's also because they stopped spraying for fruit, fruit flies that might have had a knockoff effect on mosquito. It depends on the toxin that they use. I don't know if the toxin for fruit flies is the same. I just remember like my uncle, my friend used to have to cover up his pool, his kitty pool in the back because it would spray. It would fly over. They just spray everything. I, I think the thing about mosquitoes that is the most almost more than getting bitten, which obviously it's horrible. Nobody likes that, but it's that sound when you're sleeping, where it's like, you know, next to your ear. And once you know that mosquito is there, it's like all the lights have to go on. You got to kill the mosquito. Can't go back to bed. I mean, you can't just fight it. Like, you know, it's just like, okay, now it's war. All right. I went to go look on Amazon for a good like indoor mosquito zapper. Nothing. Really? It seems like you could find 70 browns. You know, the best, the best brand. We, I have a video somewhere of my son, Kai, when he was probably like one and a half, maybe two years old, and there was a mosquito in our house. And we had all the lights turned off in the house and he's running around with a, with a flashlight trying to find the mosquito. Go like, mosquito, mosquito. But he had the flashlight. It's all about having the dark and then using a flashlight to highlight the mosquito and smack him. Does the mosquito want to go toward the light? Is that the thinking? They fly around. It's like when you turn the lights on, they stop moving and they end. Right. And so if you sit quietly in the dark, you can wait for it to, you kind of kind of hear where it is and you can see, triangulate where it is. Okay. Yeah. Got it. And it's turning all the lights on in the room. I find having a flashlight is my handy tool. It sounds challenging. I don't know. Erin, do you have any tips for a mosquito tip? I think my biggest pet peeve is like when there's just one that keeps harassing you, you know, and you're like, shoot away and it comes back, shoot away, it comes back, and it gets you eventually. I bought, I bought, like I moved into a place that has like a porch swing and a porch. And so I like to sit out there in the summer and read. And, and I think they're like citronella candle resistant at this point. Like they just like end up driving me inside. Yeah. I've only managed to kill two that were actively eating on me. And I only noticed because I saw it in the mirror, like when they bite you, they inject that little venom or whatever makes you numb so you don't feel it. Right. Until later. Yeah. But the other time they get them is after they bite you because they fly very slow. Like you can just grab them with your hands. And it's messy. Yeah. It's like, I killed it, but it's my blood. It's my blood on my own hands. Everywhere. I know. It's just, it's just carnage really. And they're all female, you know. Yeah. The men, the men mosquitoes go and pick on flowers. They're just, they're just nice. They're fine. They're just females out to get you. All the time. Nature's up to the floor. All right. I need to run. Thank you so much. Thank you again. Great to see you. Come back soon. All right. Great to see you. I hope to talk to you all again soon. Nice meeting you, Erin. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Erin, do you have an exciting week ahead? More or less. Yeah. I'm working on like this crazy story about kind of like a weird dating app sort of thing that I will tell you about. I like it already. When you say dating app, is it like Tinder Grindr or is it a lot more? Kind of, but conceptually like very different. And so I think we're doing like a video shoot tomorrow. So I've been just kind of running around. Is it like Pandora where it finds like what you looked for? Just tell us about it before the story comes out. That's the kind of app that would make sense. That's the one that picture dates for you. Just like you're going on a date tonight. It's like, who is it with? And you'll find out there like, you know, just. I wouldn't trust that. I wouldn't. No. But yeah. So, so just kind of like running around doing that kind of kind of thing. I know that sounds fascinating. I did not have to go on dates or anything to prove the efficacy of this whatever product. No, this is this is more of the look at this. This is happening. It's weird. Sort of thing. In the future, we can all just have our autonomous robot friends to do that first initial date. And then get us through the phone tree of dating enough where we're like, okay, let's get on the, let's get on the horn with this other representative. We might like each other. I would love to send my robot proxy. My robot will be on a fact checking mission to find out if your robot is indeed pleasant. No, it's funny. Like, I just finished watching you on Netflix. Have you seen that? Uh-uh. What is it? It's like, I think it's like 10 episodes or something, but it's this thriller series about this guy who works in a bookstore and he meets this girl and he just like stalks her through social media, you know, and, and it's a lot of ways kind of realistic because it's a ton that you can, you know, figure out about who people are and where they live and where they go and all that just from, you know, Twitter, Instagram or whatever. But, but a couple of my friends and I were joking. Like, after, after watching that whole mess, like, I'm done. I'm not talking to strangers anymore. Yeah, you know, there was, um, speaking of dating apps, it's a, it's a, something I wrote up on, on a newsletter for DTNS back in the day a few months ago. But there, there was kind of a loophole that somebody had. I did not match with a person and I won't, it doesn't matter what the app is really, but they could figure out my Instagram account and then DM me through there, which is not in itself that big of a deal because you're going, okay, you know, that's, I'm pretty public. But the problem was that the reason that I showed up for this person in the first place on this dating app was because I was geolocated close to them. So it wasn't just like, oh, this person that I didn't match with, I'm going to, you know, match with, I'm going to try to get them a different way. It was, I know she's down the street for me. Creepy. Yeah. And that was something where I was like, data point that, you know, in this particular instance, this person was perfectly friendly and pleasant, but that's like, that is dangerous. It's incredibly dangerous. You know, it's, it's like, that stuff works. If you need to find the closest Taco Bell or the closest Walgreens or whatever, where you live, that's a good, if you want to find someone else. And it's just like, no, you need, I think that's kind of the disconnect. A lot of people look at this and they, they, they lose the force for the trees because all they see are data points that they can use. Right. Stepping back and doing a, you know, you know. Yeah. And it even, you know, as somebody who like, obviously we all talk about tech and apps more than the average person, but it's like, even I was like, wait a second, should that happen? Why did that happen? Oh, I see what happened here. I don't think enough people are complaining about this to the company because when you really think about it, it's like, hmm, you shouldn't be able to get ahold of me. Even if I do have public, you know, I don't, I shouldn't have to like, make my Instagram account private just because, you know, anyway, it's a, it's a, it's a small part of a larger story. So Erin, I look forward to it. And you can follow it on the audio channel for your Patreon subscriber. For the YouTube viewers, we say, see you tomorrow.