 So what I'd like to do is to start off by looking at some of the things, specific things that might have been, you know, when we hear presidential speeches and other speeches today, commentators and even regular people can see things and then you think, oh my gosh, I see, they said that. That's going to be, that's a buzz, you know, that's a buzz word or that's that, there's this kernel of an idea, it's going to keep going forward. I know it's going to be an issue. And so the idea here is to partner up and to look for, to try to articulate, we've talked a lot about these, but the theory, the sort of proposition about the war that Lincoln makes and then secondly, what the policy is that he's proposing. He makes a statement of a proposition of what the war was all about and then he proposes a policy. Well, we don't know if these two people get along fantastically. This person didn't want to fight the war at all. This person didn't want a war that would disrupt the institution of time and play the game of sound. Because it's lively going to be. Right. But he could always turn a blind eye to how the cotton was being used. So the theory we're going with is that there's a blame to go around. Right. And the South is not going to be a problem. And I guess that's how she was getting to go. I don't know what to understand, what happens next, why, like, yeah, that's basically a tragedy because we know that reconstruction went in a million different directions. The war against the North and the United States that is worse than this war against the North and the United States that's more valuable to the American community. The United States really is not Henry talking a lot about the war in the North and the United States right now. He's really going to say that slavery is a horrible law. Why call these the POV Cards? Your point of view cards? first to ask you, does anybody feel particularly good about what you wrote not to show off but you feel like you could you'd be willing to share with us either your theory or your policy and or did it bring up any questions that anybody wants to raise. We kind of felt that people in the North who really felt that they were fighting to fight would see this as controversial. What do you mean we share the blame you know we don't have slavery we're trying to preserve the union and now you're telling us that we're partly to blame I think maybe that's where some of the controversy lies. Interesting okay yes. We also felt that neither the North kind of go on when Nancy said that neither the North or South is going to be happy with his plan of no blame and that you know he wanted to move quickly like the South that was going to be forced to join the union which they're going to be upset about and the North is going to be angry that they're not you know held as this victorious winner that he's really got enemies on both sides. North is a one-sided southerners, South is a one-sided southerners and a ten percent loyalty which 90% of the population in that Confederate state doesn't want to be there. Did any and I don't know how much you all got to talk about or you read about in the basement museum the election of 1864. What how was Lincoln what were Lincoln's chances what what happened can anybody sort of revisit that I'm sorry say it again military victory yeah so how was he doing before Sherman started succeeding in the fall yeah it was not looking good was it and it was it was all over and there are amazing images again of what happened in on the Library of Congress website in and other places in Atlanta in Savannah and at the same time just remember you know if he hadn't done that where would we be it's a it's a conundrum it's a little bit like the conundrum if you and you investigated of should we have dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Well I mean Mike was was talking about should Lincoln take the responsibility of the death toll where if you look at a Sherman or a Grant their strategy was attrition and just keep throwing bodies at the problem until they run out of bullets. Yeah yeah I mean it's there's a lot of controversy of what what the best military practice is here we do a play called the road from informatics and it's a meeting between Grant and Lee the day after the surrender which we know took place we don't know what happened in it but we know it took place or at least in their memoirs they both say it took place and one of the things that that Lee says is this is the last war that will ever be fought according to conventional and I think that was true what else what what else is coming through here in in terms of the controversy of his theory his controversial theory or what his proposal was what is the policy that he's beginning to articulate here and we can move on to the policy yes the whole malice towards non charity for all so so what's he saying there and if you were thinking of it from policy terms what's directed towards the south we're not going to hang the leadership like many want them to do up north yeah and after four years of hell it's pretty remarkable that he would keep that focus on the United Country just to repeat myself is it just directed towards the south do you think I mean what about those northern stop looking for revenge yeah yeah absolutely and the border states it was really big issue as you begin to look at Andrew Johnson one of the issues that we come up against with Andrew Johnson is that he was from border state he had been holding out for four years as a member of the union as a legislator senator from a from a state that essentially had that had seceded but he was maintaining his presence which is why he was named vice president in the 1864 election from a state that essentially had seceded from me in Tennessee he was full of vengeance couldn't have been more the opposite