 Yeah, I think there's pretty much a lot of people already. So let's just start great. Yeah. Hi everyone, and thank you for finding the time to joining us today. And welcome to today's virtual hyper ledger meetup five. As you might know, Bert chain is now organizing the hyper ledger Berlin meetup and presenting interesting news cases coming from the hyper ledger ecosystem. Every three months. If you're interested in presenting any use case please get in touch with us. I will be posting shortly our contact on the chat. My name is the final cuisine and I'm Bert chain association manager. Today we'll also have Bertain vice president Ricardo Garcia, joining in a few minutes. Bertain is a nonprofit member led association based in Berlin. We are promoting the local burning blockchain ecosystem, and you can get involved with us by joining our community through the snap channel, or becoming a member by filling our membership application form. I'll be guessing a few links here for this. I'm just quickly going through housekeeping for the meeting before we get started. So we should to ask the presenters a question. Please click on the reaction icon on the bottom of the screen and select raise hand. There is also an open chat feature enable the chat with other attendees and also to write a message you can simply click on the chat icon. For each presentation. There will be a Q&A session. The first one is starting around 520. And the last one is around 540. So, today we will be seeing circular three and eight units to Bertain members presenting to different use cases with the hyper ledger fabric and Bezu. I'd like to welcome Emily Wagner, managing director and founding partner at AP unit, presenting hyper ledger Bezu for European research, exploring the potential of disruptive tech for open public services. And Gunther Walden, who is the founder and CEO of circular three, presenting an introduction to innovation award winning carbon block solution. So welcome Emily and Gunther. So, I will leave you the words to Emily, who is the first to present. Okay, welcome everybody. And thank you very much for inviting me. I will quickly share the presentation. So, I guess. So, well, first, maybe a few words about me and one of the co-founders of AP unit, and AP is a network of companies and within this network, I am running the unit that is focusing on decentralized technologies. One of the things that as far as one of the most fascinating aspects is that, well, this technology that enables us to build systems where potentially everybody has equal access to. Of course, we see some key blockers as many of you probably too and one is the well knowledge of that is not spread it wide enough about blockchain technology and how to use it and the other one is the complexity, especially for the user experience. And a lot of the projects we're doing in AP unit are either addressing one or the other issues so either trying to help spreading knowledge about how to build with these technologies or exploring on how can we build better applications that are easier to use by reducing the complexity for the users and interacting with such systems. Today I want to talk about the C3 project which the project funded by the Horizon 2020 program from the European Union. And what is it all about it's a research and assessment project, interestingly focused on disruptive technologies. So the key question was, what can disruptive technology do for the or how can the public administration use these technologies to well create new services or maybe also how could the new role of public administration look like new technologies for what can they enable. And together with that there was in the initial grant agreement quite some systems with a lot of complexity designed here, as you can see there are a lot of different stakeholders like association, local retailers, the public administration, but also a lot of different technologies so blockchain was not only one, it was just was not the only one was combined with, for example, augmented reality or interactive democracy like delegated voting systems. And in addition to that also with the new form of while exploring geolocated social networks. That sounds for me in the beginning. I'm very confusing, but one of the core ideas was to explore what happens if we can map this scarcity of the physical public space to the digital space and use this mapping as let's say filtering mechanism for us for information but also filtering like who can interact with what. And this was a very interesting idea for us to see explore what can happen there. Of course, during the project. The pandemic happened and well, egg to actions in the physical space became very difficult and very restricted in a lot of regions. But we tried as during the project to stay as close as possible to this idea. Okay, how can we use the scarcity and this is also one of the core functionalities of blockchain system in this project. And why we use hyper lecture me so to do this mapping of the scarcity of the physical space and give it a digital representation. Of course, we're not the only partners in this project. We have three cities as partners with the city of essence the city of to read, and Paris that are running different pilot sites and trying to, well, explore these technologies, and then there are different technical partners like sexy guided for the interactive democracy and delegated voting mechanisms, a unit as a blockchain partner together with the university and to read and to motion who create the augmented reality interfaces. So, um, what did we actually build for where the couple of user facing components like the wallet together with the deepening format as you saw before there are really lots of different moving parts in this project. And one of the key requirement is creating a relatively open system that can be used in very many different ways in the different pilot side so we really tried to create more like universal building blocks that can can can work. For the blockchain network itself we used to prove off a certain network click on census on a couple of smart contracts for example for crowdfunding activities and similar things. And of course, well, blockchain great for storing multiple data but not very good and retrieving the data fast and in a way as other applications needed so we also created the tailored middleware layer to allow access to the data. And in addition to that we also started a research track, more focusing okay what would happen if these pilots would run a bigger scale. What could we do there to make the network more scalable. And we're looking there at how aggregation mechanisms or BLS signatures can address some of these issues. Why did we use hyper lecture basis so first of all, in our team we have a lot of experience with solidity smart contracts we come from from the Ethereum world. We wanted something that is also beyond the scope of the of this pilot project. Later on maybe usable can can be reused another project and something so that also what hopefully someone can make use out of this, and we that goes a bit in the similar direction also we want to have the flexibility and of course also the licensing horizon 2020 project was a well was also key and fast. Where are we right now. So the technical development is pretty much finished. And the first pilot side with corona are starting in April so we're super curious how things are going to be used. And what I want to focus today a little bit about is what are our learning for that. So, first of all, what was I believe it was really good to work with and was a thing for us a good base and we never regretted this. We decided to go with that. But I think for me personally, the most interesting part was on working in a research project because before we are very much like our background is very much product driven and always go in delivery making and so on. So this was the working with universities and cities and the public administration really quite a change for us as a development and implementation team. Then I think the second part that was really interesting was about the impact. So, also this project was structured as a kind of technology project to explore these different technologies. I think one of the biggest impacts is or will be is how also the mindset in the public administration can change while looking at these technologies and what what they can enable. And I think this is one of the key aspects. And what was next to that also really interesting is that the most of the technical development work was really building user interfaces that don't need blockchain addresses to do transfers and connect with all these different services that are already there or that other partners built. So this was really where we spend most of the time reducing complexity and making it as easy as possible while building some university and have to host all these different scenarios. Yeah, I think that's it for people want to learn more with the project website. There's a long read blog article going really into the details of also this idea of mapping the scarcity. And of course at the University of Turin you can find some more information about the blockchain research that is carried out there. And last but not least you can also get a touch with me. Thank you. Thank you, Emil for this presentation. We have the time to take a few questions now. I had a question. I mean, Ricardo. Hi, you mentioned that one of the goals of the project was to change the mindset of the public administration with regards to blockchain technology and something we've been trying to do on a large scale. So what would you say was the impact that or the aha moments or whatever like that came up? Well, I wouldn't say that the goal of the project was to shift the mindset. I saw this more as one of the things that happened really in this well exploration phase that there was really the space of rethinking the role of public administration from while shifting maybe a little bit from being the administrative body that's doing administration and administering the public goods towards becoming an enabler, building the tools for the people they need to manage the communities of public goods. And this was, I think, one of the most interesting parts for me to well be involved in this process and see this happen. And yeah, I think that was really interesting experience for us. Cool. Thanks. We have other. I think, is there anyone else wants to ask another question I can see also there's a question on the chat. Which is a think a more generic question about NFTs and from the other. Hi guys, yes. Thank you for, for having the session very interesting. Both a middle stock and presentation and then the project. I'm coming from industry and you know we we are working with games and you know we are working with some companies that are considering NFTs one of the use cases for integrating within their gaming communities and I was wondering if you guys have any views on how hyper ledger could facilitate those type of use cases. Well, I can, it's a question for me, I can only answer from my very personal experience of you, I think they're currently a lot of interesting use cases around NFTs explored. We are also working on the on a project within the well that started towards the music industry since we have a very large network there already from from previous projects. Well, I think also. I think it's a super interesting useful for every technology. You're using. I think there's also the Well, maybe for for a lot of use cases the need to, well to use different networks and in terms to address the scalability right for you, for example, NFTs to kind of keep keep track of things or NFTs that own NFTs and change them into each other and so on you, you get to a point where you have a lot of different transactions and might also want to create a network that's application specific. So, let me give you like a typical example of one of our customers. I don't know if you are familiar with a ball pool. So, they have typically I mean those guys are from the largest games in the industry they have like 500 million downloads, and you know all their users play a pool, you know online. So, you know, pool tables as you know they have a lot of grow, you know, a lot of ideas of how to personalize items around the game. You have virtual items. Right now they don't have NFTs, you know they don't have personalized content that someone owns, but effectively if they would create some sort of a market for content creators to create new content items that were to the potential customer base would be 500 million. So that you know I don't know how that would translate on daily transactions, but you know it comes to quite a large volume so I was wondering I mean you know there is definitely some some aspects of compliance because most of those games need to be distributed by official stores so there's you know the aspect of having something which is compliant with those stores but let's say that this is a policy discussion. When you select your technology whether it's public, whether it's a private laser that you know one of these organizations have set up already for them and use it as a service. But if you talk about the technology in terms of the volume from transactions that can support. Do you think hyper ledger could support such type of volume of transactions for million so for hundreds of millions of customers. And what would it take to make it work. I'm not sure if I'm the best person to answer this question maybe someone who's more familiar with hyper ledger fabric was pretty suited for that because I mean within the hyper ledger project their different sub project and some of them are maybe more suitable than others. So, I mean in the project I presented here today we will be network architecture was was relatively simple to what else we're doing also in terms of requirement from towards transactional volume that can be processed. Since it was targeted for this pilot site but of course we wanted to use the technology that has the potential also to grow beyond this specific use case in this in this research project. Well, I'm not sure if I said so what we're currently, or what we're looking at doing this project that they just presented was how can, for example, the aggregation of field as signatures help with different blockchain networks to maybe combine transactions on and so on to well make the the right operations and then you need on the public network less and still enable user interactions. The one one of the past ago there are a lot of different technologies to to address the scaling issues. Okay, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Theodore as well for your questions and all the other participants who asked. I think maybe we can move on to the next presentation from Gunther Walden CEO from circle three. Gunther, are you here with us is with us but on mute. Gunther, can you hear us. Let me quickly thank him. We see that your camera is turning on Gunther but we can't hear you. It looks like he's having some issues for his leaving and rejoining. Let's give him one more minute of grace. All right. Well we're waiting and if anybody has any other questions about hyperledger in general we can, you know, use this time for more q amp a. Everybody's thrilled and and excited about contours presentation. No other questions in between. I'm definitely interested and I know we have all here just to share if people are interested in what's going on with blockchain and climate. I will point out that here hyperledger has a climate action and accounting specialist group. You know, we shared this presentation with this group and I know we have some people from that group here today so just if people are interested in engaging and beyond this meet up with climate using blockchain for climate use cases that that's an option that you can look into. I dropped a link in the chat for that. Great thanks David. Is that a working group David. Exactly. So hyperledger has a number of different specialist groups that are around adopting how blockchain technologies are being adopted in different industries and so climate is one. Also we have one a media related one that the topic of NFTs came up earlier so we have a media entertainment group and they just recently had a presentation of using hyperledger to create digital collectible tools so if people are interested in just how blockchain is being adopted in different industries I'll drop a link to all the specialist groups that we have. I see that Gunter is among us again. Welcome back because audio is still connecting. Yeah, he was able to dial in and speak and share a screen before so hopefully we'll be able to get this. Yeah. Hi Gunter. Can you hear us. Can you hear you unfortunately your audio is now connected. We can still see but not hear you Gunter. But now it looks like the connection to your audio is being established. Gunter. We're getting there. We can't hear you unfortunately yet. He said his PC crashed. Can you hear me now. We can hear you. Okay. Yeah, I'm really sorry just when I wanted to start to turn on my my camera zoom crashed. So I don't know why why this happened. And then I couldn't even stop zoom I had to reboot my whole laptop and it's currently running up again so it shouldn't be too much longer. I really apologize but I don't know how this could happen. It's actually never happened to me before so. We are happy to have you back. Pardon me. We are happy to have you back no worries. Okay maybe maybe I start while while I get up my presentation on the laptop I start talking a little bit about circular tree. We founded circular tree in 2018. And really our target was to support companies in getting more sustainable supply chains. And we initially started with a project in the area of conflict minerals and did a pilot project there with Daimler. And then and this is quite interesting with Amy. We also got an opportunity to join in in a research project which is called block three. And block three is really a health care project. And there we're actually also using hyper ledger fabric or let's say we plan to use hyper ledger fabric. And we're still in the early stages of that project. But it's also a consortium together with the technical university with the research center informatic with the University of Karlsruhe with the charity so it's all 10 partners. And I can kind of confirm what email was also saying that it's really interesting to to look at projects from from this perspective, where you don't really are not just looking in getting something out, but where you really do some research and in that project For example, we were doing a thorough investigation of many different blockchain types before we finally decided to use hyper ledger fabric so and I'm very excited to see that this will eventually be realized and I'll be more than happy. In a year if we have something running to to show you some details about this as well. So now I should be coming up with my PC. Okay, can you see me now. Yes, you can see and hear your loud and clear. Okay, yeah, I don't know what why why this happened it just happened when I started my video so. Let me just bring up my presentation. Not again. You might want to turn off your video going to because it might be a bandwidth issue. It's great. So now let's try again. Okay, let me. Can you hear me. Yes, we can. What's the hell is going on here. Can you turn off your video going to just to save the bandwidth. Okay, I've turned it off. So now see it now. Yes, yeah. Okay, perfect. Okay, okay, and you, you start. So I was I was just just to finish this was with a block three project. It's quite interesting to learn other things and in the block three. So that we're only working on the blockchain layer so everything above is done by other partners so we can fully focus on on the blockchain part and do not need to have much domain expertise out as a health care area. That's just for for a starter. So now going back to what I really want to say is our solution is carbon block and what we really are offering companies to is to become part of the solution against climate change. If you see climate change climate change has really impacted companies or is impacting companies on many different areas actually in regards to regulation fees and taxes from governments from customer and consumer side by changing buying behavior and from the banks and from the investor side that they're shifting their focus towards more sustainable responsible investing. So companies are really eager to do something. Now, if you look at the issue is, you see some large companies have already published your carbon footprint and some have have provided targets on when they want to become the big problem. However, is the product carbon footprint as though typically, and this is an investigation by the carbon disclosure project. The last company only adds 20% carbon footprint to a product 80% comes through the supply chain. And there you have the challenge. There is no visibility these days about the carbon footprint of the supply chain. If companies are providing product carbon footprint information it's done by a life cycle. They virtually take their product apart and then check it out in databases and take average data to calculate it. But this does not address a problem because it's not the real carbon footprint and you cannot really change something. So the what we want to do is really provide an opportunity to measure the real carbon footprint and then the real carbon footprint and this is what carbon block does. How does it work very simple. For example, this is a project we've done with startup autobahn so BASF as a chemical company provides a granulate. They write the product carbon footprint of the granulate on the carbon block system. And then they add the transportation of the granulate to mother's son who is a tier one supplier making bumpers mother's son takes the carbon footprint of the granulate and then they add what it takes them to make a bumper. And this total carbon footprints they write again on carbon block. We add transportation again. And then you add all their suppliers and add their own carbon footprint for making a tycoon, then they have a real carbon footprint of a tycoon. And this is a basic architecture, what we're using. It's a little bit simplified because, of course, real supply chain look much different. But at the end of the day is the important thing. The real carbon footprint from one tier to the next. Theoretically we could give everybody accessibility, but right now companies are very reluctant to provide too much transparency. A little bit more in detail is what's important about the solution is that you need to automate this because companies have way too much products in order to manually calculate this. You need an architecture where you can have databases, providing for example the bill of material production process data. And then you only need to set up once a process model. And then if one of your suppliers changes his product carbon footprints the system then can automatically calculate the new value. This is important. Of course in the pilot we couldn't do we couldn't do a full blown solution there we did this the process model with an Excel file and we're just developing a tool which automatically changes data and what you can see is very important. The critical data stays within the company boundaries and the blockchain system is of course in. This is where only product carbon footprint data is stored. So this is a very important point for acceptance by the corporations. This is some more detailed architecture. I'm not a software architect. So but if you have any further questions to young is also on to call. He can answer those questions. If you have the transparency. You want to do something and this is a great thing. You can have for example, product comparisons you can compare different materials and say okay this material to has the lowest carbon footprint so I use this material in order to design my cross my new product or you can make agreements with your suppliers where you say I want to reduce the carbon footprint let's say by 50% every year. Or last but not least you can just compare different suppliers. This has been the feedback from the project participants portion mother's and and BSF. It's the first solution to track real product carbon footprint information. It helps to determine the best levers to reduce product carbon footprint, and it's very important to have automated processes for data collection and transfer, and it's one standard one tool, the efficiency between customer and supplier increases significantly. And in regards to blockchain what the feedback was is if people know data is immutably stored on the system. They feel that companies have a greater accountability for data reliability. So it's a psychological thing that that they really say okay if it's immutable stays there forever and cannot altered. And they, they believe there's a greater accountability. After we we did this project we were invited by the World Business Council development, they had just started a similar project and this is called SOS 1.5 for yeah we need to to achieve the 1.5 degree from the Paris climate agreement past find the project. And this project approach is exactly the same as we did it and so they invited us because we had already done a pilot. What is now what is now the good thing is that together with other solution providers, we are working on standardization. First of all about calculation. And secondly, we develop open standards so different solution providers can access the network and can provide solutions to their clients. And this in my opinion is very important that we have a broad base here. That's a communication technology is open to many other companies. And it automatically moves forward but anyway, important is also in the solution. What you see here it. Then areas from a company. So from the procurement over mergers acquisitions corporate reporting up to HR and employee engagement, we have we have worked out in the in the project. These departments can derive benefit from such a transparency and and this is really great that companies these corporations who participate in that project, see that they can really benefit by this increased transparency. And in my last slide you see they've also they've also monetize this. An example of a large, large foods, many fast moving goods manufacturing company in a five to 10 years time frame but they think it's one to 2% of the revenue could be avoided offsetting spend. If they have a lower carbon footprint they need to pay less carbon tax and this could add up to 2% of the revenue. Top line growth. Those companies in their say that they have sustainable products sustainable products grow faster. And then they see a top line growth of one to two 3% and then in the reporting they say they could achieve a saving of up to 5 million per year. And this is in my opinion, very important that we not only have the savings of carbon footprint which is of course very important for society and for the planet, but that also companies can have a benefit by this and then we will see that there is a much quicker adoption. Yeah, that's it from from my presentation. I went a little bit faster than I normally would have done it but just to make up a little bit of the time. Are there any questions. Thank you Gunther for the presentation actually I can see why you, you use hyper ledger fabric I mean because for the proof of authority algorithm it's definitely fast and energy efficient. I have a question regarding. So, carbon block actually enables all participants to share actual carbon footprint information in the supply chain. This is very effective from from a transparency point of view. What about the traceability. This is something we are continuously discussing we've discussed this already in the pilot project with Porsche and BASF. Typically the OEM wants to wants to have traceability. But the suppliers do not want to provide that traceability, because, first of all, they have confidential agreements which you know, importantly, they feel the more information their customers have the more things they can find to put pressure on prices. And so, this is why why also in the World Business Council project, we have decided not to make traceability mandatory, but we will offer it as an option. So it's it's a it's an organizational thing but if we would make this mandatory. We feel that many companies would just not use a system they would not use such a system because they're afraid of that. Okay, yeah. Great thanks. Is there any other question. I had a question also. How do you deal with the process that you described works very like you showed a linear process in that sense you make the granulate it goes to one company this company makes a part. What about multi multi tier supply chains like if you if you take for example palm oil. Sometimes like palm oil refinery sources from 200 different meals, and then a chemical company sources from three different refinery and uses a refined palm oil to put it into 20 different products that are then used again by companies into 50 different different products so there's a non, many too many relationship. Does it also work in those cases. Yes, definitely I mean this is from from our software. And it's not a problem at all because you can you can have this in the process model where it is important and this is we have in this SOS 1.5 pass by the project we have two major work streams. One is a standardization of the calculation rules, and this is exactly what you are addressing if I have multiple inputs and multiple outputs, which output gets how much of the of the carbon footprint. And this is where we are making rules on how companies need to calculate this, or for example, if a company purchases like whatever 80% power from coal and 20% renewable. Do they which value can they say okay 20% they make zero carbon products and the other 80 is getting all the carbon footprint so those. Those agreements need to be done, and there is a work stream of harmonizing the calculation rules, because if you don't don't harmonize it and everybody does does it on its own, it will not be comparable and this would would not benefit the system. Does that answer your question or Ricardo. Yeah, so this means that like, if we, if we again I don't know take the example of palm oil if you have, for example, a company buys one ton of like very good sourced palm oil and 200 kilos of badly sourced palm oil. We can calculate like an average kilo of palm oil that is used has this carbon footprint and then on the other side when they use it in their products. You would say if you use out of this 1.2 tons like 500 kilos, then you take like this, this average value of the quality of the product ingredient that the company has and then you calculated based based on based on that. Yes, this is exactly the discussion which is going on right now. And probably we will allow, we will allow both. However, it needs to be absolutely ensured that not more of the of the good palm oil is calculated than is there is in reality, you know, this this will definitely need to be ensured. But probably we will allow companies both options. It's not final yet, but this is what what I think will will be the outcome. But you cannot have a mixed model either you take and the average value or you take the good and bad but but not anything in between. Any other questions to Gunther. Maybe then I have one one last comment for because it's just a hyper ledger meeting and I've, I've, I see that Robin is there. We've also started discussions and I, I think this is a really great opportunity also for hyper ledger with Robin from the special interest group climate action to see whether whether we can cooperate here in developing open standards based on hyper ledger fabric so this is certainly something which which I think would also be great. Those were my closing words. Robin, do you want to say a word or two about the group. Yes, thanks. Yes, we're the hyper ledger climate sick David also said that before we have bi weekly meetings every Tuesday so we have a meeting on Tuesday at. It's 6pm central European time. You all are invited. We are currently developing an hyper ledger lab. I will share the link with you. It's based on a pleasure fabric and we also use an ethereum implementation for the trading with carbon emissions tokens so you all invited to take a look at our wiki and reach out to us we also very active on the hyper ledger rocket chat. You all are welcome and hopefully I will see a couple of you guys on Tuesday. Thank you, Robin. Thank you Robin. Okay, then apologize once again for for screwing this up, but I don't know what happened. No problem. It worked out in the end. Yeah. And then I think if there's no other questions for cancer, we can also wrap up our session soon. So thank you, Emil and gunter for this insightful meetup and presentations and thank you to all the participants that have joined and engaged. You will find the recording of this video on YouTube. Yes, also in the hyper ledger Berlin meetup channel and as well on the birth chain YouTube channel. I'm going to paste here a few links for you to to watch again the video. And if you want to drop us a question or want to get in touch you can you can write to birth chain at hello at birth chain.com I'm going to paste here the email. So thanks to everyone. And thanks. Thank you. So we will be just as a quick heads up we will be running this probably on a quarterly basis so if you have any interesting use cases defined already mentioned it but reach out to us from from birth chain and then we can see how and when we can accommodate any any presentations in the in the upcoming hyper ledger meetups so feel free to drop us a message and then and get in touch. All right, then thanks everybody and have a wonderful evening and see you next time. Thanks everyone. Thank you.