 Okay. All right, so let's get started. Welcome everybody to our panel on the Teamsters in the UAW. Sorry, I disappeared for a second. You know, zoom, it's a beautiful thing. My name is Jonah Furman. I am a staff writer and organizer for Labor Notes. If you're not familiar with Labor Notes, we're a media and organizing project. We say we're putting the movement back in the labor movement. We try to connect people across unions on a rank and file member level, learn from one another, tell each other stories, and organize together. So in that spirit, we have a panel tonight that's going to feature leaders and activists in the movements to transform the United Auto Workers Union and the Teamsters Union. We have some amazing speakers tonight. I'm honored to be on a call with them, people who have been active in this movement for decades, people who are still working on the shop floor and organizing today. And just to set the stage, we're in the midst of two historic votes in these unions, which is why we wanted to have this panel, one in the United Auto Workers is a referendum on changing how top leaders are elected through a direct voting system, a delegate election system, and we'll hear all about why that's so important. And another is an election of the top officers in the Teamsters Union to elect new leadership after 23 years of James P. Hoffa running that union. So I'm going to kick it to each of our panelists and we'll hear just for one minute on, you know, who they are, how they came to the movement, what they do today. And we can start with our Teamster side. Ken, if you want to start us off. Okay, good evening. Well, I have a long history with the Teamsters Union, and the insurgent reform movement within it Teamsters for Democratic Union to you. After working for a, as a truck driver in the 1970s and Cleveland Ohio local 407 I, I started working full time for the reform movement to do you as our first staff person. We named the national organizer we have a small staff that has grown a bit. And I stepped down from that position. Just recently weeks ago I'm on the national board our national steering committee of Teamsters for a Democratic Union and with us today is sister Karthi Boston who is brand new member of our national board. We have a long history we're a durable rank and file movement that's what we call ourselves we don't call ourselves a caucus in 1.3 million member Teamsters it's a good union to be in because it's potentially the most powerful union with in the logistics transport and distribution industries. We know how strategic they are over that long period we've had our share of defeats and we've had some, some good victories one I want to just mention at the start is, we won the right what we call the right to vote. In the UAW they call one member one vote, where you directly elect the international officers rather than having the local officers go to a convention. And in the teamsters it's every five years. That's the maximum allowed by law so naturally they landed on that. And we have a direct election now which is going on right now in our union. Great. Thanks Ken. And yeah Karthi, tell us what you do how you came to this call into this movement. Thanks Jonah good evening Karthi Boston out of Washington DC. I'm pretty much I'm a teamster, I would say a 15 year teamster with ups. I started out at local 177 in Jersey and then transferred into local 639 also and now in DC area. I actually worked on the preload I'm now a preload shop steward. I'm also involved in T du aggressively on the ground, pretty much getting involved in the campaign as can just alluded to I was just elected to the International Steering Committee. And as you know, T du is pretty a pretty aggressive grassroots organization pretty much bolted in various capacities. I would say I'm across the country, trying to get people out to vote currently you asked me what I'm doing now is trying to mobilize to vote. It's a critical turning point in the union standpoint to get people to vote. There's a lot of a stress going on on the ground and trying to just mobilize that so I've been doing a lot of underground movement giving up my vacation time. My days to actually get into different locations to mobilize to vote on the ground so I would say, pretty much widespread at the moment. Thanks Karthi. Now let's, let's move to the UAW side of things. Mike you want to start us off. My name is Mike cannon. I'm a retired international representative with the United Auto Workers Union out of St. Louis. I joined the UAW in 1970 so I've been a dues paid member for 51 years now. And I'm a member of UAW local 282 a small malware made a local union in the St. Louis, Missouri area. I held a number of positions in the UAW on the local level Stuart committee man and chairman in my local plan for nine years. And then I was appointed to the UAW international staff and I worked as a servicing representative in the St. Louis area predominantly for 24 years on negotiating contracts and also arbitrating grievances. I was a member of the UAW new directions movement in the 1980s and 70s, and I served as an assistant to Jerry Tucker who was one of the founders and regional director in the UAW. Now, I am a member of the steering committee for UAWD that's unite all workers for democracy. I'm currently advocating for the passage of one member one vote or what we call now on the ballot, the direct voting system. Thank you for having me today. Thanks Mike yeah and Scott maybe you can tell us what you do in UAWD and where you work and how you're organizing today. First of all I want to say thank you for having having me on the panel and it's great opportunity labor notes has been, you know, just an inspiration for many of us activists in the labor movement. Yeah, I work at Ford Chicago assembly plan I'm a member of UAW local 551 for 32 years. I'm a rank and file electrician. I've held some offices in my local union, Vice President, Secretary treasurer and alternate committee men. Now, my role is chair of the steering committee for unite all workers for democracy UAWD for short. And we are right now in the fight for the life of our union, the life blood of our union is its members, but the members have been pushed to the guidelines in recent decades, and it's time for UAW members to take our union back and take back control of it through direct voting system. That's what we're fighting for right now and it's a historic moment in the in the UAW that there will be, you know, plenty of words written about this, this moment. But yeah, I totally agree. And I just want to make a note for everyone, you can type a question into the Q&A box that you see at the bottom we're going to have some time later on to take those so if there's something that you particularly want to ask just put it in there we'll try to get to some questions near the end. So now I just want to go a little deeper on each of these, you know, I think Scott's totally right there's a historic moment in these two unions. We're at the stage for people who aren't deeply involved in in these unions and what's happening both how we got to these points, and what are people what are members doing about it today why does it matter for them. So, let's start again on the teamster side. Ken if you could just tell us what's going on in the teamsters election, you know what's what's what how would you tell the story for someone who's not involved and how, how do we get here what's the run up to this moment. Well, the teamsters, as I said have we have direct election for international officers ballots were mailed to 1.3 million members on October 4, and every member gets a vote. There are over 100,000 votes in Washington already that have been returned. And we'll close on November 15 and I'll start counting them by local union will know the counts by local, the way you know the count by precinct in a in a civil election, and it will take a few days to count it. So we're hoping before Thanksgiving will be have a lot to be thankful for because we do look to be winning the election, the election pits. James Hafa, not the real Hafa he died in 1975 but the junior Hafa, who was born on third base but still dreams that he hit a triple. He has been the president for over 20 years, and he, he has been able to win elections against us give him what his do we to you was able to put up a formidable opposition and to raise critical issues and to combat two tier agreements and so on but we could not defeat him. Five years ago that started to change these teamsters United Slade headed by Fred Zuckerman back by to you got 49% of the vote and one six positions. The regional position so we swept the ones in the south and the central region of the union didn't give these vice president international vice presidents any power often didn't give many jobs, but it's signaled to the members hey this guy's days days are numbered. And there became a sort of an opening in the union at that time furthermore one of our things we organized at that time to was from vote no to vote them out. Vote no in the national agreements teamsters majority of teamsters are under local agreements but a significant majority are under national agreements and trucking contracts, United Airlines T force freight, yellow freight and United Congress which is the largest labor agreement United States with 350,000 teamsters in every single one the members rejected the national agreement negotiated by the Hoffa administration and it ups a majority rejected it and then they imposed it anyway. They used a loophole in the Constitution, which they might have thought was a smart move but that really was the last nail in the coffin in some ways. And what happened was, there was a break, a more militant teamster on the Hoffa team, Sean O'Brien broke with him. Several years ago by 2018 he was working with us in the vote no movement and help lead the vote no movement. And that formed the new teamsters United slate, which is headed by Sean O'Brien and Fred Zuckerman. As I say the voting is ongoing now. I think I can say more about that I would say that for TD you our goal we've been doing this for a long time. We believe in that we've succeeded in in continuing and growing because we stick to principles not personalities we stay close with the members we organize from the bottom up, and the election is very important but even more important is what happens afterward. We feel it's an open door then for people to push up from below and build a new generation of leaders and a new direction in labor. Yeah, that's great. Thanks Ken. Dorothy, maybe you could talk to us about what that means. What are you doing day to day around the vote what's your activity like in detail, you know, tell him, tell him about your trips tell him about what the conversations are like and what your coworkers think of this stuff. Oh you muted sorry. Well the trips are pretty exciting if I'm I start about that. Well the trips across the country have gathered a lot of things. People are excited about the vote they always knew about the vote when we got to plans facilities wherever we went they always knew that there was a vote coming up. However, there was a lot of Ken alluded to there was a lot of blowback as it relates to the two third vote for those of you who don't know what the two third vote is again that was the loophole that passed the contract the last time when members voted it down. So when we got to a lot of the facilities members were like why should I vote. Why should I vote this time I trusted you it's an active betrayal that we voted and we didn't get what we voted for. So I think when we went to various facilities it was trying to encourage people to vote that this time around that loophole has been closed because at the convention, that was changed and that was voted again to change that rule. So there was a lot of discontent about members talking about that. And second, the discontent came about talking about the contracts for example the 22 fours a lot of members talked about that. But those of you don't know what the 22 fours it's sort of a two tier system of wages as well a lower lower form of driving at UPS drivers at UPS. And members were discontented about that saying that it's a divide and conquer situation with the union. So there was a lot of discontent about that across the country again the voters are out there we're talking to them on a daily basis and text messaging we've done text messaging banking on Saturdays and Sundays, calling people directly on their phones I mean it's a huge union 1.3 million voters. There's a lot of people to reach so I think the ground campaign boots on the ground is highly effective I think if it's one thing that I gather from T du is their ability to get people out there I think all of us are actively engaged in being out at hubs giving up on vacation time and showing our presence and I think when we visited facilities people were always saying, we wish we can see you guys all year where the union activists were they you know so we realize the the necessity to be out on a frontline when there's either an election or there's an important vote to be done is so important to show your face. That has been happening so we've been doing a whole lot of things besides just going to buildings, reaching out to members, carrying ballots every day I mean this morning I was out in a parking lot, giving out flyers and reminding people. If they didn't get their ballot they should call the 1-800 number and what are the steps and how to vote and sort of directing people about to go through that process, because there might be change of addresses that have happened over the years and people have not updated the systems. So important to do that double checking to make sure that the vote count. So that has been going on and to again push that vote to get it count to get that count to get it counted, because people hold on to their ballots don't throw it in. Absent mind I just forget about it so that's been critical and as you know, the voter turnout might be a little bit low because people are discouraged from the last vote and that was again the pushback from the last time so we really are doing, you know, great job to get out there to remind people. Guess what that loophole has now been plugged. Thanks, Karthi. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, Mike, tell us about the UAW maybe talk to us a little bit about like Ken was talking about with Hoffa talk about some of the concessions we've seen in the past, you know, 25 years and some of the corruption and how that led to this referendum. Well, you know, it's, it's been a very dire situation in UAW as it relates to concessions. You know, back in the back 35 years of doing new direction, we, we advocated a position where we should not get close to the corporation, we should not have joint programs with the corporations. And that was going to in effect corrupt our union and certainly it certainly did. And it let us put us in a downward spiral because of our close relations with the auto manufacturers in the United States. We began to, they began to chip away at our collective bargaining agreements and now we are faced, we have in our agreements you know two tier multi tier wait systems. We have different benefit tiers for workers based on when they are employed by the employer. So we've got in our auto plants to basic contracts. I mean it's one contract, technically, but that one contract provides different levels of wages and benefits for workers. So, you know, it's, and that certainly is not in the interest of union members, right, because we're all supposed to be about unity and, and being in represent each other and being a part of the profits that corporation makes. So, so that is the problem. Now, where the corruption occurs. And that cozy relationship with the automobile manufacturers led to corruption on massive scale in the UAW on different fronts to and the individuals involved, we're 15 individuals, three from Chrysler Corporation now the Linus Corporation and 12 UAW top leaders to former presidents, former presidents, three vice former vice presidents, regional director and a host of administrative assistance engaged in a multi level corporate car corruption scheme in the UAW to defraud the membership to still union dues money and benefits. Luckily, it was, it's been prosecuted by the US Justice Department, and all of those individuals are either serving time now or will be serving time to have been sentenced and will serve that time in prison for for the embezzlement and the, in the fraud that they engaged in. But you know that old. That sad chapter in our history just brought forth the need to make a big change in the UAW before we use the convention delicate system to elect a top leadership of the Union, and that system was controlled and has been controlled by the administration caucus for 70 years 70 years seven decades 13 people basically decide who's going to occupy the top positions in the UAW. So because we created this system of entitlement to these positions on the top leadership of the UAW. These individuals felt comfortable enough that they could then steal money and not get caught because no one was going to tell the government that they were still in money. The result of all of this the consent decree was agreed to between the UAW and US Department of Justice. And as a result of that, we have now a referendum vote. That's a creature of that consent decree which gives the UAW membership and retirees the opportunity to vote on the question of how they want to elect top leaders of their union. So we obtained a convention delicate system, which, in my opinion, only created the problem that we have with the corruption and concentrated power to the hands of just a few people to decide who would lead the UAW. We could convert to the one member one vote or what we call on the ballot, the direct voting system, where every member will get an opportunity to cast a ballot in every election for the top leadership of the UAW so they could decide who will represent the UAW and its members going forward. And that is what's going on in the UAW. Yesterday was a historic day for us, October 19, the referendum began, ballots were mailed to the 1 million UAW members and retirees, and that election will occur, will actually end on November 29. All ballots have to be in by November 29 at 10am by mail. And so that's, it's a historic moment for us we have an opportunity to instill or establish democracy in the UAW something we've been fighting for the UAW for 30 or 40 years. One other development that I think we need to be talked about here tonight in the UAW is the fact that we now have 10,000 UAW members who work at John Deere and Stripe. They're fighting for the contractual lives because they have a company that is making exorbitant profits, and they came to the table, and now they want concession from the workers. And Scott can go more I guess the details on the issues there, but those are the two major events that are occurring in the UAW today. Yeah, thanks Mike yeah we definitely will talk about Deere Scott you're welcome to elaborate a little bit on that but I also want to hear, you know specifically tell people how are you going to win this referendum how have you organized for the past I mean for it's been about two years you guys have been working on this so you know what are you doing to get this thing passed. Well, we've gotten a lot of inspiration from TDU I can start to start there, TDU has shown us the way they've been doing it for a number of decades and we watched that, and we studied what new directions was doing but what we're doing in practice is we have to build a list of UAW members to reach out to, and to do that we've used a variety of techniques from firing with a scan code on it for people to scan and fill out a form so that we can have their contact information so we can exchange information with them. And, you know, let them know when when there's changes on the ground that are going to affect them. So that's one one way also we've been doing text banking. We've been doing some phone banking. Once we get the people on the list we call them and see if they want to help out in any way whether it's text banking or doing or firing. Just this week I've mailed about 5000 flyers out just to people all around the country and I've also placed orders for flyers in in Louisville Detroit and Kansas City. So, you know, we're doing what we can to build our list and get those members activated and working to reclaim their union. Like Mike said this has been a 70 year one party rule in the UAW. And it's long time long past time for a change there's been several attempts to change to a direct voting system. And the structure of the UAW but it gets blocked every time it tries to get people try to get it put on the agenda for the constitutional convention. So, you know they control the convention committee and won't allow that to even come up in the in the conventions, even though the members put resolutions for that. And for the convention every every time there's a convention. So now the members are going to get to have their voice heard for once. And they're not going to have to rely on their their delegate to vote for them, they're going to get to vote for themselves to decide whether they want to have a more democratic union. But Mike was saying about concessions. I think that's been the crux of the problem that one of the biggest to me the most egregious part of the corruption scandal is the bribes that were exchanged at the fiat Chrysler. Because we had vice presidents that were taking bribes getting their houses paid off so that the fiat Chrysler could get better contract terms and better enforcement terms during the contract. That cost, you know, the membership of the UAW hundreds of millions of dollars and, and, you know, lost wages, lost grievances. It's just, I just can't describe how awful that is for the membership of the UAW. And now, you know, even after all this has come out, when Volvo workers went on strike they voted their contract down by 90%. And Ray Curry was the the chief negotiator in that that contract negotiation, he just kept bringing that contract back to them to vote until they got it right after the fourth time it finally passed by a handful of votes. But that's, that's not negotiating on behalf of your members. And right now the dear workers are facing the very same issue. They voted their contract down by 90% and said we're willing to fight for what we deserve. This is a company that's making huge profits. We deserve better. And actually the the tiered wage and benefit structure started with dear workers since they've had the tears since 97. That was a full decade before it entered the, you know, fully entered the auto industry. So these the corruption, I think is is really you can really base it back to the joint programs, because these joint programs create these huge slush funds that are opaque. The members don't know how much is in there, what it's going for, or anything like that there's no LM to for that where you can go look it up and see how money's being spent. And these, these pots of money have proven to be too tempting for the, the officers of the UAW to keep their hands out. And it's been too tempting for the companies. It's been a, well, I think it was their intention in the first place was to use these slush funds to try and influence the contract negotiations. And that's been the crux of the problem to me. Great. Thanks Scott. Yeah. I want to just make one note here. We do have a Q&A box that some people have used but I want to make sure everyone's aware of it if you do want to ask a question that's the best way for us to see it. And also, because Zoom is funny, a lot of people have my name in the Zoom. So if you want to change your name if you can, just be interested to see who's asking these questions. But yeah, let's, I wanted to open it up to at least one question for the whole panel to kind of discuss together. And you kind of touched on this, Scott, and to me it's kind of about the deer strike and it's kind of about the last UPS contract. It's the types of things that motivate, you know, rank and file members who aren't super involved in the leadership of their union or the structures of their union. So part of my question is, what would it mean if these reform efforts one for someone who's not already really committed to, you know, I care who's on my executive board or, you know, why do you think this is a path. Why do you spend your time after work, working on UAWD and Teamsters for a Democratic Union. And why do you, you know, what do you say to members who, who want to know how does this affect the bottom line concessions corruption democracy in your union. And that's open to anyone on the panel who feels, you know, they want to jump in on that. Well, I'll take it I'll start off with it. In our case the UAW. And when we went when the referendum, we strongly believe that it will of course end the stranglehold that the administration caucus has on the top seats of the UAW. And we're talking about the UAW International Executive Board here here. What will happen is, same as what's current in TV you and Teamsters, we will be able to field candidates for those top offices of the UAW. And, you know, there will be a debate that occurs as a result of that. You know, and those candidates will be questioned, and their position on the issues as it relates to corruption or concessions or what have you are all going to be put out for the voters, the 1 million UAW members and retirees to vote on. So it will be for the UAW a dramatic change in how we select our members. It will give us a chance to look over people and decide for ourselves who we want to run our union. Also, it will create an environment where it will absolutely reduce or eliminate corruption, because if we can get seats on the International Executive Board, we will be watching the other officers or top leaders at the International Executive Board and what they do. If we have eyes on them, there are not going to be inclined to steal union dues money for their own purposes. So it adds an element of accountability, a big element of accountability that we don't currently have under the current convention delegate system. So we pick up, you know, the accountability. And then we also have an opportunity to advocate for progressive path in terms of representing the interests of union members on the International Executive Board. We have a chance to try to influence and shape policy. And now in the UAW, we have none of that. Yeah, no voice, no input whatsoever. Basically the 13 members of the administration caucus, they decide what's going to happen in deer negotiations or auto negotiations and, and that's it but we can create a debate once we're able to gain seats on the International Executive Board. So it will radically change how we do business in the UAW. Thanks Mike Ken did you I saw your hand when jumping. Well, I think. Ms. Karthi said a lot of members of discourage participation is low in union elections, including ours right now. You know percentage wise I mean it's going to be hundreds of thousands of people but it's, it's not half the members. And you know I think, having a leadership that at least opens the door that stands shoulder to shoulder with people when they're ready to fight. It starts to inspire people about the union, both in the union and beyond and other unions and and unorganized people. One of the questions in the chat was about organizing Amazon every time I talked to people outside of Teamsters and one about organizing Amazon. All the candidates in this in a Teamster election say oh yeah we're going to organize them. Well, I'll tell you what they can hire enough organizers to organize Amazon the entire treasury could be spent on hiring and it's not going to happen. It's going to happen when there's more of a movement, when people from Amazon starts saying hey I want to get in that union they just kick ups is ass and raise the wages for the for the inside workers by $6 an hour and they're making a lot more than I am they seem to be happy about it. So you start generating where you're organizing meshes with a broader movement and I think that has to be our bigger goal for for Teamsters and auto workers and others these are good starting places that Teamsters in logistics the auto workers and manufacturing. We need to, we need to think big vision long term, and I think that's, that's what can really start to inspire people about unions and the labor movement and take unions off the defensive and on to the offensive. Right. Karthi does that seem that ring true to you for talking to members at work you know do they make connect the dots of you have this election it's going to open some path that could make this union come back or stronger make life on the job better. Absolutely, I mean this is pretty much the turning point of the union people are looking at this is the last big vote that we had when when half are joined I mean it's now or never pretty much numbers are saying it's either we get on a train of the movement that's happening across the country. Everyone is sort of mobilizing whether or not it's the wage, whether or not it's the wage crisis whether or not it's corporate not being able to attract employees, whatever it is. I mean it's the now or never move manager we get on board now wherever wins is a pivotal turning point in the union, meaning it's either we're going to get someone that's cushy cushy with management, or we're going to get someone that's adversarial. So, I mean people are very, very eyes on and what's happening when it comes down to this vote embracing a leader I mean the fish rocks from its head. So pretty much not having a strong leader means we're not going to be out there striking we're not going to be out there voting and I think members are aware of that because they feel that the union has lost power over the years and, and that's pretty much what's happening there's a lot of dissent, there's a lot of right to work states. There's a lot of things that's happening that we have to push back on so when it comes to that I think members are really aware about what's going on and say this is the changing it's either we get on board this movement, and we make a pivotal change or it's never going to happen for us so I think, again, we're at the moment of change, no matter how you look at it. Yeah, Scott, does this same question to you, you know how do you connect this kind of direct voting thing to the members and what would it mean I mean do you think it would change things like dear and how. What it would do is require the candidates to communicate with the members. Right now, I can tell you that probably the vast majority of UAW members have no clue what the name of their president is. That's because he's never had to go out and campaign and never had to say hey, you know, look at me you need to vote for me because I can make your, your union better better I can help you to win better contracts. That doesn't happen in the UAW. You go you send delegates to a convention and they get, you know, arm twisted into going along to get along otherwise, you know things could happen to your plan. So, you know, that's, that's the difference between the delegate system and the direct voting system is that the candidates are going to have to go to the members and and introduce themselves. At the very least you got to introduce yourself but then it's going to be a competition of ideas. And when when you have a competition of ideas and workers are right now in this country we're at a point where we want to build back what we've lost we need to claw back a lot of what we've lost. And, you know, we're just disgusted with the fact that we've been on a, you know, a 4050 year downward turn UAW has lost 1.1 million members since 1979. We're down below 400,000 members now active members we have more retirees and we have active members. So, what this voting system is going to enable is a competition of ideas, and also it'll, it'll, you know, force the membership or the leadership to get behind the membership in these job actions rather than try and suppress them. So, you know, I think there's a communications problem, the members don't know what they're, and they know what they want to strike for but they don't know what's on the, on the bargaining table, because there's a lack of communication during bargaining there's a blackout. It doesn't have to be that way they've decided to do it that way. So, that's one thing is, is it can open up communications. But the members are wanting to build a better standard of living for themselves their families their coworkers their communities. And we want to rebuild our communities. And to do that, we're going to have to take stands like the dear workers are taking right now. And we need leadership that's going to be working with them and not a headwind against them. And that's what we've seen with the Volvo contract was the leadership was a headwind to what the membership wanted. They were, they were pushing back trying to prevent them from winning what they wanted out of that contract. Something I think is really interesting trying to touch on I'm going to take a few of these questions here and there's a lot of them so I'm going to bundle some of them together. But something in the deer vote this 90% no vote that was really surprising covering it for labor notes was they had three days to get that together there was not a 10 year vote no movement. There was, you know, an alignment of forces. The question for a lot of dear workers now that I'm talking to is, you know, what do we do next how do we, how do we keep this going and I think both the UAWD and T du examples. There's a lot of moments, but there's also a movement that's created in these unions. So this is sort of Thomas's question. You know how did you start organizing your movement within your union, Thomas is a brother from CWA in California. So, both the how and the why, what is it what does it matter to have an organization, why do you have a T du and not just a 2021 election why do you have a UAWD and not just a referendum, and why do you put work into that organization. And that can be for anybody. I mean, all four of you would be great on that. Well, I'll start by saying to you sort of the mighty mouse, you know, we're out there fighting fires and starting things and that people don't even think about. Think about the reach of organizations it's small but it's mighty think about the reach we're able to do things that people are not able to do. When you talk about maybe agents of business agents of people who are working in the union front who are busy with other things and handling members, crisis and buildings and grievances. They probably don't have to spread for that they don't have the time to reach that and I think when you look at organizations like T du being able to spread their wings and get people on the ground and mobilize you know that's great organizing is the strength of the organization and I think if O'Brien was smart enough to figure that out to join forces and say guys you guys are strong when it comes to organizing so I think you got to utilize the strength of every organization and I think maybe that's something as Scott talked about alluded to before that you can take from T du. I mean building on people's strength and collaborating and say guys we got to come together as one we're in a fight together pretty much. That's one thing you can take from it. Scott, I'll just add to this. This question is related people are asking directly you know after the referendum what's uad going to do to keep organizing same same with T du but you know, what is the organization do after the event. So this will be our first chance to do that after the event, but you know we're going to have to be organizing for getting fair election processes put into place. I'm assuming that we're going to win this referendum. I work, you know, members, you a w members across the country work on this every day day in and day out. And we have a couple of extraordinary organizers that the staff organizers that are helping us with this. So after the referendum, we're going to put forward a platform. We actually have a platform already that we've put together. But the first part of that platform is passing the referendum, then after that it's going to be winning a fair election system. And then after that it's going to be getting delegates elected to pass the reforms that that we need it's not just electoral reforms. Well, for instance, one of my pet peeves is that the before we raise the union dues by a half an hour a month. There was no way for the strike fund to regenerate itself every single penny that went into it got kicked back out between rebates, and even the interest went into the International General Fund. So we need to correct that and make a strike fund that's self sustaining. So, you know, there's there's a lot of work to do beyond the referendum. But right now are, of course, our main focus is on the referendum. But, you know, to bring that forward. I think we're going to have to support our brothers and sisters in the struggle. And we got to show that we're all in this together and towards that end. UAWD has begun a go fund me campaign, and that go fund me campaign and has really taken off and a lot of that that credit is due to you Jonah for helping getting getting it out spread out there widely but and we thank you for that. Right now we've raised almost $75,000 to help our brothers and sisters that that are in the struggle right now taking the brunt of the tip of the spear so to speak of the labor movement right now. We're going to use that to help them to, you know, sustain their strike effort. And, you know, every penny that we raise is going to go towards helping our brothers and sisters to stay out there until they get the best contract that they can. Can I can I cut in just please. I think you said the question you have was from a union member from CWA and they wanted to know how can they get started how can they get a reform movement started in their union. And, you know, I think the best way to start it. And I've been a part of two reform movements now the new direction and now UAWD is to just start talking to people. If you're a local outside in your area. Anybody that you meet in any meetings conventions or what have you just start talking to people about the need to have a vehicle for change that exists in your union. Without even a framework or anything official or formal just start having those discussions. And then use the tools that you have today. I'm absolutely amazed that all the tools that exist today for organizing. I mean you have zoom you have free conference calls. You have email texting. If we had those tools back in the 80s when we were organizing for for a new direction is I mean we would have been hell on wheels. So you've got all these wonderful, wonderful tools that you can use that will help you organize pull people together use those tools. And that's exactly how UAWD got started. It was just a group of people started talking about the corruption they were college and before you know, before you know it, they started saying well hey let's talk every Saturday. You know for an hour let's just kind of just keep this conversation going and look what it's grown into. Right. So you've got that and then what you want to do is you want to use your Constitution you want to follow the leadership closely. If they violate the Constitution, try to pick an issue that you can win against them to help build support challenge them through the Constitution. And those means that you have to create a victory that will also give you some publicity with other members, and then you can build on that. And that's sort of like the pathway towards establishing a reform movement in the Union and I guess can or yeah. I would just add when you talk about what's happening next for me and for many of us from me, the movement has already moved to the next level which is focusing on the contract. You know, when you look at the biggest contract that Teamster has on their wing which would be ups. That's for us. If we get a good contract that's going to set the stage for a lot of things to come. So we really need to start focusing and getting in gear and you know when I when you look at the history of ups the first strike was what 1997. We haven't had a strike since that was the only national strike ups I've had. And I don't think both of the candidates have had some kind of strike patterns or have talked about striking and some extent. But when you look at the fact that we can use strike leverage if we need to. It's not something that everyone wants to do but sometimes it's necessary so I think, when this contract evolves and we get to the contract negotiating level we got to send a strong message that listen we're going to we're going to push forward to getting what we want and then moving forward to other people building on that it's so important. So we have not we've not just settled here thinking that the vote is over we've already moved the gears to the next to the next battle. Again, did you want to add anything about, you know, starting a caucus in a new union or connecting it. I'm thinking about dear really but yeah. I, I think you've got to, you got to focus on the rank and file membership issues and not come in with a predetermined program. And some of the issues that we know are here are two tier agreements, the things that the dear workers they voted 90% no after the uiw international said vote yes on the contract. You've got to focus on those kinds of issues another thing that we do and to you be an educational center. It's not just a matter of opposing the leaders and number one problem is we don't have enough leaders in the labor movement we need more people coming up from below. That's what we regard ourselves and we're an education networking sharing movement. We just had our convention and an experienced labor leader from other Union was there and he said, you know this is unique, you have rank and file workers, local officers, international officials all here is like equals sharing ideas, debating things discussing things networking. Be that kind of a movement of course when you're starting out you're not going to be at that level, but sort of using that model, and not the traditional caucus here's my 10 point program vote for me and everyone will be happy. Don't use that model, use more the rank and file movement. And as Carthy said one critical thing is contracts, and we see that in the uiw to to an uiw d knows it. Again, yeah I actually am seeing now, you know I invited anyone to let us know if you're from the deer strike I see we have brother Jeremy from local 838 waterloo. I think I recognize some other names. I also see we have IOTC members who are you know facing this, this contract ratification vote this big moment we're having. And I also saw someone talking about tier two tier contracts in general which in a lot of ways is kind of the pattern that we've seen as Scott kind of referred to. I guess, you know, we can move to some closing thoughts and statements but I think what I really want to hear is, you know, not just advice of how to get started but what do you see as the signs of life in your union what gives you some excitement and hope. Again you mentioned the TDU convention members taking the lead where do you see member leadership and how do you kind of throw throw gasoline at what do you say Carthy that you're like mighty mouse going out and putting out fires and starting stuff. Yes, how do we start more stuff, you know and what what are you thinking about what's getting you excited about the labor movement right now in your union and beyond. I'm excited about channel Brian I think pretty much for me. I was pretty excited when I got on board the trail last year and said man this guy might change the face of the union. For me I was one of the discourage members out there thinking maybe this is it you know maybe after 15 years I'll never see a change in the union. I was on board also TDU and you know and said man we got to change things we just got to make that movement more aggressive and more militant as we would say. So when it comes down to that I would say for me I'm energized I think if we do have a new strong leader who can go out there and advocate from us we can get behind him and and lock arms together at the frontline and say this is what we'll accept and this is what we won't accept we put a pushback. I'm excited I think if anything you can take from TDU here would be definitely the training point and organizing strength of the organization I think that's something we can all use and any in any unit. So for me I'm really energized I went to the TDU convention the women's convention the teamster convention, and really energized to know that people are mobilizing people are gaining the strength of what's what's ever happening across the country. And now like I said it's a critical point for us and I think if we all get on board and we're all here together as activists to some extent this is great this is what we want we envision this as to have this sort of mobility and be able to talk together and share ideas and come together as one. That's what we want. Yeah. Scott Mike Ken. What's, what's keeping you going what are you excited about. Well, I'm excited about being able to push our leaders. You know that's that's what this referendum is all about it's it's about the ability to push our leaders and try and drive the, the direction of our union. Right now it's, it's, you know, it's an on a crash course, you know it's headed to self destruction. If we don't correct the course. So to do that we're working diligently, you know getting these flyers out. I've got I'm picking up stickers tomorrow that we can get 100,000 sticker or no 10,000 stickers passed out around the country. So we're getting the flyers out. We have organizers, full time staff organizers that are helping us and legal fees to deal with the, you know the courts and the monitor, you know the monitors team is all lawyers. So we need some on our side. So, you know that's that's what's getting me excited is being able to finally have the membership driving this, this ship that is called the UAW, rather than having it being driven off a cliff by, you know, people that are self serving. So UAWD, you can learn more about UAWD at UAWD.org. Also, we have a sister website, one member one vote one m one v.org one m one v.org. And you know if anybody wants to chip in to help us out. We have a donor box link on our on both of those websites. Thanks, Scott. I mean, feel free can or Mike to respond to the last question or also you know how how can people find your movement if they are teams around this call or no teams in their life. Right now we're in the midst of an election as we talked about that is number one we're pretty excited about it we're hopeful. It's certainly not in the bag but we actually believe that Teamsters United Slade is the favorite and it's going to and it's going to win the election and take the leadership of the union out of the hands of the Hoffa administration. And when we talk about strikes. That's the last thing on their mind. And the employees brag about how much is in the strike fund and as O'Brien says that's because you never cause it call it call any strikes. And the employers know that we want to create a union that is, that is not just militant but is inclusive of its members. It's outreaching that's outreaching to the labor movement and beyond we can't do it alone. And T du members tend to when they talk about labor notes they say, oh that's the T du for the whole labor movement. And I put an ad in here the labor notes conference, March 25 27. There'll be a lot of Teamsters there will probably be in a good mood we want to see a lot of other people there, because the alternative to having a vision and building a labor movement is going to be more of what we see in this country the employers can steal your job and convince you that immigrants did it. We have any quality that's off the charts I live in California, we have more billionaires and anywhere in the world and I believe we have more homeless also. If you think there's something wrong with that picture that's what we all should be working on. We're going to do our part in the Teamsters which can be the most powerful union. And hopefully inspire others. Thank you. Can Mike did you want to say a few closing words and I'll close this out with a few next steps for people because we want to give people something to do of course. Yeah, what inspires me so much I mean I've been around a long time. I've been a union rep for 35 years, go back to the 70s and 80s. You know veteran of many campaigns over that over that time. And what inspires me as the is the young people that I talked to today that people are just getting involved in the UAW or have been around for a few years, and decided to stand up and speak out advocate for a better union that just brings such so much glow to my to me to just see people are willing to do that because in these any fights you know our biggest enemy is apathy. Our workers just simply have a tendency to just check out I'm not going to deal with that I can't change it. I'm not going to, I'm not going to waste my time with it so when you have people who are inspired to say no can make it better let's let's work let's give it a try. That makes me feel so good about the future of labor in this country without a doubt. In our case what we're doing here with the referendum. Just so people know when Scott made the pitch for donation. We're mailing 10s of 1000s of postcards to you a W members and retirees. We're emailing 100,000 UAW members and retirees doing this, the voting period, we're handling that plant gates. We've got days of action plan where we show up at the plant we, we pass out handbills and whatever we're phone banking. We're doing a lot to try to get out our vote to try to make people aware now we have to make people aware because the UAW and a monitor really not publicize in this referendum at all. So, and it takes a lot of money for us to do that so if you can make a donation we certainly would appreciate it if we can post the donation link in the chat if that's permissible. We have to do that, and that will help us win this, this fight that we have for democracy in the UAW but don't give up. Continue to believe in unionism and work towards changing it making it better that's we need to get more people involved on that as well. Because, you know, it's your future you can't just walk away from this. What happens at that bargaining table affects you in your family, and it will for in your entire working time. So there's no sense of giving up and just, you know, resigning to the fact oh I can't change this no get involved. Let's start talking to other people and start coalescing with folks who feel the same about the same way that you feel about the issues involved in this and let's work to build a better union. Thanks Mike. Yeah, definitely Scott if you have another if you want to put that link again. I also want to just thank all of our panelists for joining us and for the work you do I know on top of working a job and organizing a caucus and working on some of the most powerful union leadership in the country. You know to come spend time with us at Labor Notes is, you know, it means a lot to to us at Labor Notes and to the people that we are organizing with. I just want to make sure everyone knows you know meetings are great panels are great we love to hear from our friends doing is better and Labor Notes is about organizing. So we, you know, like Mike said it's all about keeping in touch with people coalescing organizing talking to others. So at Labor Notes we bring people together for a conference every other year we'll be having that in the spring. I also want to just drop this link for you all Labor Notes dot org slash events. We have a ton of online events for every level of activist organizer, whatever level you're at you're at I'll just say you can, you can go there but I want to plug a couple things. First of all, if you're in Detroit or Philadelphia in November and December we will have in person troublemaker schools these are sessions with workshops and trainings everything from filing grievances to organizing your coworkers beating apathy at work. Like Mike said, I also want to plug, we have a secrets of a successful organizer training every month there's one in November, one in December, this is for everyone from a new member to a local union president. It's all about how do you do the basics how do you get people to a union meeting how do you get people in motion. How do you fight the boss at work. How do you build a labor movement from the bottom up. And I also want to plug our stewards workshops this is new event we're doing for union stewards only. I know we have Jeff from john dear local 79 thank you brother Jeff for coming on to the call and we would love to see some john dear at some of these events. The whole point here is that we believe that if we connect rank and file members across unions, we can build a labor movement bigger than one workplace and bigger than one contract and bigger than one union. And that's what we're trying to do so thank you all for your attendance thank you for your support for these teams just for a democratic union and you a w d organizations. If you are a teamster or you a w member, you are sitting on a historic moment and I hope you will take the opportunity to meet thousands of other activists across the country in these movements, and stay in touch with labor notes hope to see you at the convention in 2022 and have a great night everybody. Thanks.