 Hello and welcome everybody to this session here at OER 22. I am very excited in a moment to introduce you to Erica Hargreaves who is going to lead the session for us and I also wanted to encourage you all to have a look at the other resources that are available from the OER conference and if you're still within the time frame of the conference month then also our social space on this court and I wanted to say a very big thank you to Erica for sharing a really important topic with us here today and I'm really looking forward to hearing all about it so Erica without further ado I'm gonna hand over to you welcome thanks so much Marin I'm thrilled to be here and I am thrilled to be sort of chatting sort of web web three stuff and ways of using web three to sort of build sustainability and creativity and innovation behind your open educational initiatives so this this was a journey that I started on a few years back and actually spoke on sort of the early stages of not when I was I hadn't been wised up to web three then but on on sort of our sustainable funding journey to sort of find different ways of building sort of sustainable funding pathways into open educational projects as well as sort of storytelling projects for social good and sort of a journey that that that this conference was was part of the early story of so so it's great to be back and and and also that you know David Porter from from this from from the open ed community sort of gave me several nudges and and helps helps sort of propel me on the way way with this this journey so so I'm very thankful to him for that so my whole journey into web three it began and I know I spoke about it at last year's conference but it began with the the web monetization standard and sorry Erica just to jump in there I'm not sure if you're sharing any visuals but they're not okay do you see my face or no I'm at the moment we're seeing nothing oh you're seeing nothing okay I would be just wanted to double-check sorry about that yeah we can yeah okay sorry that's funny yeah no I'm I will bring up some visuals throughout but I'd sort of stage this as a bit of a different different style of more workshop based where where we're gonna go spend some time on a mirror board and stuff like that I will put up those in our in the discord community a little later on after after the talk just just in case people want to kind of explore around and an experiment with ideas within that but yeah do you want me to start again from the top now that you can see me or sorry we're a bit of a troubled troubled teenager here so yeah so so where my story began with sort of exploring web three was with the web monetization standard which is actually considered to be an API that is open web however the way it's currently working is when I get into sort of explaining what that is is coil is is currently the main is well it's the only provider right now for the web monetization standard and their way of making it work is is with a digital wallet and so for those of you that are new to web 3 basically web 3 is the is the whole web that's that that's tied to elements of the blockchain so with the web monetization standard while it's open web it is also because of because of a connection right now and how it's working it does have a connection with with with the blockchain and so it's it can be considered to be web 3 as well as as well as open web but I'm going to just sort of take you through and introduce you to some of these things like the web monetization standard a new sort of web 3 application that I discovered the other day which is using using Brave browser to earn for your towards your digital content and and then further going into to some NFT experiments that we've got going on at present and the beauty with all of this is there are ways that the open ed community can play with all of this to keep their content open but at the same time be earning towards making that content sustainable and we're certainly doing that with the experiments we've been running in the last year which has just been with the web monetization standard we're making our maintenance costs on our content sustainable so so the web monetization standard pays for all of our maintenance costs on on our various digital applications and things like that and because of some of the additional sort of bonus ways of earning in that community over the the last year we've actually done more than build maintenance fees we've built some experimental money and so that's what I've been been using with our early NFT experiments right now but I will take you through all that quickly here I'm gonna share my screen and I'm going to take you through to are you seeing my current screen here that says how to become a web monetize yeah okay I'm gonna quickly just close the door because there's a loud lawnmower outside figure you don't need to hear that so so as I mentioned what the web monetization standard is is it's well as as the artist rescue trust likes to call it it's a financial fist bump between a creator and their audience but basically it's it's it's a JavaScript API that allows for the creation of a payment stream to go from a website visitor to a website now just because there is this ability for that payment screen to happen that doesn't mean that anybody's putting up any paywalls or anything like that on the content if you look right now on my screen you'll see there's this little coil button and this little green thing right there and that right there is because I do have a coil membership so that means that normally it would mean I'm paying $5 a month US to support other to support the content of creatives online that have web monetizer content and so whenever I'm on some of these content that's web monetize there is a little stream of payments that goes through but right now there's an opportunity that that has been offered through Mozilla festival but that is open to other people who go and sign up for free Moz Fest ticket they'll get sent a six month prepaid membership from coil to basically spend their money on visiting different digital content online that is web monetized and so I'm kind of hoping that we can get this message out to the open ed community so that those some of those accounts can be used to support some great open educational resources out there now the beauty is that for some of these content to be web monetized they do not have to pay into this membership that is entirely and completely free and to do that you just go to coil.com backslash creator and it'll allow anybody to go in and start to monetize their content for free and as I said you know even if I didn't have that membership for example this content that I'm on right here this is all freely accessible same thing with all of our story to go content like right here while the site is web monetized there's no paywalls anybody can can access this this for free and so what I've done recently is in addition to on story to go where we've created a course in teaching people all about how to to start web monetizing their content so that they can start earning to their open educational resources their open courses things like these articles that that I've been writing on story to go there's with that there I've built a whole pile of tutorials that walks you through all the steps and also explains what web monetization is and what web monetization is not so it's not anything to do with data mining affiliate marketing advertising rather it's it's about making the web sort of a more equitable place so that creators and creators from all around the world and different parts of the world can can can earn on equitable footing you know from these different from different people sort of exploring exploring and spending time on their content online so that is all right there I will share links to all this in the discord so that anybody who wants to go through and learn about it can when I first learned about it and initiated this on our sites it literally I did it within well the whole initiation thing the toughest part and this is like the biggest block right now for people sort of getting into this community are the digital wallets and so the longest part of setting this whole thing up was setting up a digital wallet you're probably your best bet is to go there's two right now that are working with it which are upholds and gate hub I do know that in the UK a lot of people tend to go I think I think gate hub might be out of the UK but upholds seems to be the one that's been working better for and has been a bit easier for a lot of people but I do admit that's the one hiccup and had I not kind of being nudged in this direction by David Porter and had not been like you know kind of done the research on the interledger foundation who's who's the foundation that's behind the web monetization standard and realize that you know that everything was above board it would have you know it would have been kind of it would have been a stumbling block for me just because it's if you haven't set up a digital wallet before it it's kind of you know it's it's bit of new ground a bit outside certainly outside of my comfort zone initially but that is you that is as I said the biggest stumbling block the rest of it is relatively easy and in even setting up the digital wallet isn't so depending on where you live in the world it isn't so hard there's there's still some places that because of different government policies with financing and stuff like that that it's not that it's a bit more difficult to set up or or can't be set up yet but but yeah if you once you get through the steps of setting it up and get through the uncomfortableness of something new the rest of this is super super easy the first day that that that that I set up everything on our site I got sent my first like little notification from up hold saying that that we we earned a little bit of money that day and since then there's barely ever a day that I don't get that little email from up hold saying here's how much you've you've earned from your digital content today um so similarly I'll share this but this sort of walks you through the steps of getting startups like getting set up with the web monetization standard it's one of the beauties of it and one of the things I quite love about it is I can actually have my different writers and teachers on story to go set up a payment pointer of their own on the back end of like on our author page on we're running our sites off of wordpress and so there's a wordpress plug-in for it that makes it really easy and so on each of our author's pages they can set up their own payment pointer which you know kind of ends up being like a nice little pad on the back for them because it's kind of like they're receiving well it's like it's basically the receiving royalties for for their writing or for for their course content so this young fellow here is Bjorn he's our newest writer on our team and has been creating our NFT art for us and so I I sort of nudged Bjorn in the direction of uh of setting up of you know sort of getting his payment pointer before I shared his first article here on on the journey he's taking us through as an art therapy student and it was during MozFest so it was why we were sort of running with these experimental accounts where MozFest has has given out the six months of prepaid membership so people at MozFest have these accounts so when they're going and looking at his content which they were at the festival, he started to earn and right now because of those accounts too this is the other exciting bit with them is when I go here there is an experimental feature right now where people can get can give a tip so I've already tipped Bjorn for his articles before and so because I've only got a limited amount of tip money and I'm hoping if some people in the open ed community start to web monetize their content that I can go spend some tips in the open ed community so I'm not going to not going to tip him right now but basically this is one of the beauties is it is it allows you to at the moment send some tips and they are all prepaid by coil so it's like this little bonus money that coils giving us at the moment to to spend on on great content so I'm going to repaid by coil so it's like this little bonus money that coils giving us at the moment to to spend on on great content out there and content that's doing good so yeah so this is part of what I mean so excited about and so there's and there's all sorts of really cool things there's ways of of web monetizing podcast there is mural which is this really kind of fun interactive storytelling tool that allows you to you know add layers of sound and video and photos and written words to create these these these beautiful sort of art storytelling pieces. There's ways of web monetizing mainstream platforms like if we go to coil here I'm already signed in so I'm just going to go to my settings here and if I go into my web monetize content you can see that I have web monetized our different YouTube channels that literally just took me clicking through to the channel and you can see here you know you get the little sign in thing from from from Google between coil and it takes a matter of seconds to do that. So yeah so that's been that's been kind of something I've been really enjoying exploring and using and and sharing this last year and right now there's some some great opportunities for people in the open ed community to experiment with this and to to share a little bit of that that goodness that coils giving everybody around also just state here to the nice thing right now with those accounts is when you go to set those up. They don't ask for it's not like one of those things where they ask for you to put in your your your wallet like they don't ask you to put in your credit card or anything like that at the end of the six months. Nobody is going to ask you to continue paying for that so so yeah so so that's great and you can still have your content all all web monetized. Now I think I'm just checking back here because I think there's a comment. It was just me posting in case anybody has questions so I will give you a shout out yeah I'll give you a shout out Erica if any particular questions come up. Okay great and Mark just just so you're so you're aware we kind of we were originally going to go through this I've been sort of changing how I've been going through this simply because the fact that initially it was just Marin and I hanging out so I did have a more interactive presentation plan so if you do want to sort of dart into the more interactive stuff. I'm happy to do that if you would rather sort of just just listen and learn I can do that too so so so there's there's those various opportunities the thing I'm going to share now we've got more people here. I'm going to share in the link. There's this is something that that I've kind of started doing from that whole web that whole mozfest community online, but I've got a document that is a little Google Doc it's got a lot of the links that I'm talking about in the presentation in it today. And for some reason it's not letting me add it to the chat. Huh. Okay. Yeah, the chat's not working. Sorry. If you just click on everyone. That's where the. Ah, yes. In that document there it's like it's a way both for people who are who are on the on the chat today to to connect with each other and to share each other's contact details. But there's also a variety like all the different links that I'm talking about within the within the conference or within the session the workshop today. And the space for asking questions both both during this time and and afterwards. And then I'm also going to just share because I've got a brainstorming board that I set up in mural. So I will share the link to that as well. And I believe I put it on our. Yes, I did put it on our document. So I'll also add that in our our chat here too. So, um, Now, so that's that's one of the web three three ways that that I've been earning. Now I had a friend who came up for a visit. Two weekends ago and he shared with me another way of earning which I was unfamiliar with, but it's it's brave. It's a new well it's not a new browser they've been around for a while but it's one of these browsers that has been web browsers that's been designed. So that you can see here it's being designed with kind of the idea of privacy in mind and you know people so that you know big text not not mining all of your data. And so he told me that one of the things that they're doing is when you set up brave on on your like as you know as as a search browser for yourself. You can it normally blocks all the ads, but you can say that you're fine with seeing some ads and you will start to earn in their crypto currency which is called I believe that I don't know what the bigger acronym because I've only been playing with it for a couple of days. But the beauty with this whole bat system is it also has this area where you can also be a creator and you can sign up as a creator. So, and the beauty with this is the things that you can sign up and link are your own website, your YouTube channel, your Twitch, your, your Reddit account. I believe I'm trying to think for a second there I was thinking you could set up your discord too but I don't think you can yet, but but there's other things to like your Twitter account. And so I did that the other day and once again, it took me, you know, and I've got a fair number of accounts that that could be web monetized and I think I did the whole like all the accounts within an hour. So, you can see right now like, you know, our, our romancings, which is our travel travel storytelling YouTube. It's, it's, it's connected along with like, you know, with our various different media platforms. And so, so I only really started experimenting with this last week, but it's telling me that that so far, you know, in the first couple of days of playing with this. You know, I got sort of 0.401 bat so it's not earning me any huge amount of money, but this is like just these little tiny ways that you can kind of earn towards your different open educational pieces out there, and they don't create any barriers to anybody entering them, and using them. So it's kind of seems to me like it's a win-win, especially since it allows me to web monetize, like to basically earn in multiple ways from, for example, our YouTube channels. They're web monetized using the web monetization standard plus we're using, we're using, I'm now using Brave and they're, they're earning that way too. And when you sign up as a creator, it actually also allows you to accept tips. So if you go to my, while I'm using Brave, if you go to my Twitter account, you will see, and it's not just my Twitter account. It's everybody's Twitter accounts here that it allows me to tip different people. So if I wanted to, I could press tip and I could send Stephanie here, you know, a certain amount of money or certain amount of bat for her post. Now, I don't, because I only started doing this the other day, I don't really have much bat yet, and I think it hasn't gone into my wallet yet. Unlike the web monetization standard, it doesn't seem to happen immediately. So, so I can actually tip anybody at the moment. So I will not demonstrate that right now. And you can see like it's got this little dashboard so so far this month and we're only on day three I've made, you know, 0.705 bat, which is about 42 cents us so which, you know, sure it's not a huge amount of money but it I figure, you know, all those little bits and pieces towards our open ed resources are are are a good thing. And it's otherwise just money I'd be leaving on the table. Now, when we were talking about the web monetization standard to me you're talking about their wallets. This wallet with brave well they have their own wallet that you can set up on here. They also work with two different wallets and one of them is uphold. So, so I've, I've linked mine to to my uphold wallet here. So yeah, so that's just a new discovery that I had the other day. And Why we've got Mark on the call. Mark, you're just waking up in California I'm doing the same thing in BC. Mark, I don't know if you're feeling in an interactive mood right now if you just want to listen. But if you are over on our sort of experimenting with web three and open education or mirror board here. I've got this section here on and I don't know if you missed the opening part of our talk but what do you think about when you hear web three. And if you're, if you just want to listen right now just just type in the chat that you're just happy listening. Thanks Erica. I think Mark saying happy listening I'm really enjoying this as well. Okay. Okay, so I will hop over into our NFT experiments then and so to show you where I took this where I took these experiments this last fall. And having fun using project work in my master's which is now very closely nearing its end, although I've probably been doing the master's much longer than most people you know spend doing theirs. Because you know my part doing a part time sort of thing. But so I used a master's project in the fall to start diving down into seeing what all this buzz about non NFTs which are non fungible tokens are online and if there was a way of utilizing them for sustainable funding solutions with open education and open culture. And so one of the things like there's there's a lot of confusion about what exactly non non fungible tokens are and around ownership and things like that around them. And I know it was a bit of a barrier for me when I was sort of approaching this question and not really being sure if there was a way of tying. With open education because of this whole idea of ownership when it comes to NFTs and I was also a little bit leery because I was thinking, you know, for me where this would be really great is if there was a way that NFTs could provide seed funding to our our different web series and documentaries and things like that. But everywhere where I'd seen people doing examples of that. They were using it in a way that they were creating like collectible tokens that then were linked to the series and it was about giving like exclusive audience access to that group of people. Now, obviously with open educational materials, sort of a token to create exclusive access kind of doesn't really mesh together. And so what I sort of when I when I started kind of going down down this road and and looking into to this. The first thing was tackling. Okay, what exactly is a non fungible token. And, you know, I know we've all heard things like, you know, people selling their tweets so so I did a workshop on this yesterday and that was one of the questions in the workshop was the thought that, you know, an NFT could be a tweet. Well, no, it can't be a tweet. But what it can be is basically these non fungible tokens are a digital asset that has a smart contract attached to it and that smart contract exists on the blockchain. So the non fungible token could be a screenshot of that tweet. Now, and that does bring into question. Okay, where is the value in that. And as we've recently seen in the news where there was I think the first tweet that happened on Twitter. Somebody sold the screenshot of and made a ridiculous amount of money and now that ridiculous amount of money is a much, much, much, much smaller amount of money so the person who bought that NFT lost money on it. But if you think about it, anybody can take a screenshot of tweets. So, so, so there wasn't kind of that lasting power with that that NFT. So where some of these the the more interesting things are happening around kind of, you know, value around NFTs is around things like, like, where these NFTs unlock different sort of experiences and so when I referenced like the tell the, you know, sort of another media source that that was earning in this way that was a web series called stoner cats. And they have totally funded this web series to ridiculous amounts of money on on basically selling these different collectibles, like from the series and anybody who owns one of these collectibles has exclusive access to the series. Now, so granted, there's a lot of famous people behind this project, but I decided like, you know, well, I started looking around and I started finding some other projects that were more, more had heart behind them. And in this case, it's actually got hard in the name because it's the anatomical hearts project. And that we're doing things that were all about social good out there so this is kind of a similar idea, although these ones aren't. Oh, they I do think there is a sort of unlock in them. Because I think you might get access to the coloring book, although I'm not entirely sure on that point. But this this is a woman. And in my journey, I met her and have spoken with her a number of times and she's she's absolutely lovely. And she started to create these anatomical hearts pictures when her daughter had three open heart surgeries within I believe the first 11 years of her life. And so this was kind of her coping and her way of dealing with it. And so at the beginning of the pandemic she actually started to turn these anatomical hearts into a coloring book. And then somebody sort of nudged her in the direction of selling them as NFTs. And so she's done quite well from that. And if you click on the different hearts, you discover that. Oh, she hasn't got them all mapped out here. But I believe there is a certain amount of this money from her hearts that goes to a charity. And, and then there's also royalties attached these hearts so that if anybody resells them, she will get a certain percent back in royalties as the artist. Now, where I found something that was even more interesting was this project called emotion monsters. And this was born out of this woman who's she's an artist she's a DJ and she is a medical school student. And she was finding that when she kids were coming into the emergency room and they were exhibiting men like emotional health issues, they weren't getting treated very well. And so she wanted to do de stigmatize sort of, you know, hang ups around till health and she decided to like start this campaign of doing that through creating these different emotion monsters that are getting sold as NFTs. Her original ones were pictures these these video ones are are new, but the sales and she outlines it here. Now, part of the interesting part about this is she's as a part of the sales she's giving the rights to make derivatives of these monsters. But if people make a derivative of those monsters and they sell them out there. She's requested that, I think, I think 10% of the sales from that go to some sort of mental health charity. I think she gets 10% in royalties back as the artist. And in her own sales that she's doing out here to she's got both those two things in there when she's making her own sales but she's also sort of the money is going towards making a children's book that features different emotion monsters in there. And I believe with the NFT, anybody who's got the NFT gets access to the to these emotion monsters as well. So sorry, not to the book that's coming out. And so as I said, I'm definitely going to be checking them out. Oh, I know, I know. And the story behind the whole thing is fabulous. I actually I learned about her and I've got it in in the first my initial write up that I did it's it's in there. There's a link to a podcast that I believe was on Ed Surge, all as they were sort of initially expert like exploring this whole idea of NFTs. And yeah, it's it's right. Yeah, it's search right there and they interviewed her on it and she's just lovely and I've since like engaged with her on Twitter and yeah, I absolutely love what she's doing. Yeah, just timing heads up where in our last five minutes. Okay, so, so yeah, so what I what I've been doing is I I sort of took this idea I liked I've mapped what we started doing based on her stuff, but I made the initial mistake of the early days of our stuff so this is naturally ours and this is just our first rendition which which we're currently remapping out right now but beyond the artist I showed you earlier, he's been creating these different images based on the first season of naturally ours for us with the idea that every image that when we sold it, you know, there would be 10% would go to nature charity in the areas that we're filming. 10% would go back to Bjorn as our artist to so that he could, you know, make a little extra in royalties towards his his his education. And, and then the rest would go to, you know, both filming future seasons and the educational materials behind our yeah, but are like the building of our educational materials tied to the series. And so we weren't so with these I because obviously I can't pay him properly to create so many images that we could like we'd either have to price these these these tokens really really high. So I decided you can actually create from one project you can create as many tokens from that project as you want so I tried initially I thought okay well we'll we'll create 99 of these and we'll charge you know on par with what the the problem is, is people do seem to want this exclusivity in in these collectible tokens that they're doing, especially like, because I'm not famous so it's not like the stoner cats where they're going to, you know, just blindly like you know throw throw buddy at what what we're doing. And even though, you know, each of these comes with links to our series and the educational content. It's open educational so it's, it's, I mean we don't specify that in there but but we also don't tell them they're getting exclusive content. So, so this wasn't really I'd started realizing that this probably wasn't going to work. And there were like some extras that they would get like, for example, our full length documentaries. We typically only do it film fest and because we have licenses with them with mainstream broadcasting sites they're usually not like openly available the way are the smaller web series versions are. So we're going to make that accessible to them. And then we were also playing on the idea but mind you everybody is has got access to this. When you're building NFTs, they're really big on there being a discord community for kind of behind the scenes and to connect with the creators. So usually you want to have your NFTs also linked to your discord community so that was going to be an aspect of it, but it wasn't working. So what we have done is we realized that what people have been doing in this space is they've been creating what's called generative art. And I've got a link in our document that explains how to do it and it's actually not the tear like it's at first I thought oh how are we possibly going to do that but it's not too too difficult. You basically create layers to your artwork so we've got these base our layers now and beyond created a whole pile of them. And then there's other base layers that we have that he's created like different hats and different beaks and things like that. So what they've done is you then run it through a generative program which is all free and all openly accessible and I've added links within our Google Doc to how to get to this stuff. But when you run it through the the program. I just ran it through once where I sort of ran it through to create 20 hours and you end up getting all these different hours. Now this all of a sudden becomes accessible to, and I could see this with the penguins from from the conference to create something like this where you've got these different layers. And then you can each of these becomes its own individual token that there's only one copy of in existence so that they now become like almost like these collectible playing cards. And we then put the same kind of policies and that are like the same sort of, you know, access where they're a token that goes to supporting our series and all the educational contents. And, you know, we can think about doing like a couple little extras that we might just do for our token holders later on like maybe like there's a monthly chat with, you know, different people involved in the project whether it's like Kelly doing a filmmaking tutorial, or me doing some sort of nature nerdy bit out in the woods with people teaching them about a plant or something like that. So, so, so this is how like we're kind of approaching this at this stage of the game. And we're finding right now we're in the zone of exploring different environmental environmentally friendly blockchains to be sharing these on. And for those people that are interested in that I can get more into that. Happy to sort of set up a conversation and chat more about that and sort of we're actually with that. We're actually and I'm just going to click off of this the screen share right now, but we're actually do you know where to close the screen share Marin that's easy. Yeah, just click that little camera. Yeah. So yeah, so we're, I've been meeting with a group of different artists from all sorts of different disciplines every Tuesday. And we have chats about NFTs and different ways of using them for social good and all sorts of things like that. And anybody who wants to be invited to any of those discussions. Shoot me an email. It'll be in Google Doc which I will share over in the discord community so so we can we can chat we can we can brainstorm. Like when you're talking open ed to like, there's all sorts of other different ways that that could be used besides besides the way we're using to build stuff out there right now. One of like, you know, there's been some talk around, you know, actually creating when people want a certificate from an open educational course so they, you know me. So maybe there's a little added bit where they're paying for something at the end of the course to to have their work evaluated through. And maybe that is tied to a smart contract that basically is tokenized and and is is is a proof that they've they've they've done the work to earn whatever certificate or whatever badge. So there's there's there's that's that's another example of how this could be utilized with with open education and it's really all about, you know, sort of, you know, starting to brainstorm and dream. One of the conversations that came up in last week's chat with these artists groups is how some gallery owners are now taking real paintings and so this is just a painting like a sort of a sort of artsy photograph painting and what they would do is they would take the painting and then break it into like 1000 little tiny images of that and then they're then selling that those images, like at least half of them as NFTs out there. But where that where the smart contract with that whole thing is then linked to the original piece of artwork. And when they sell the original piece of artwork in the gallery. The remaining of the NFTs go out with the original piece of artwork, and everybody who owns a piece like an NFT attached to the painting, then gets a little piece of the cell of the original work and because there's a smart contract attached to it everybody else down the line, like in the future that are connected to those that, you know, have one of the NFTs also earn a little bit. And then there's like, there's the whole side to have. And I don't know if this stats right I have to look it up but one of the women in our group last week mentioned that apparently 80% of the people buying and selling NFTs on this one marketplace were under the age of 18. So that's the case, and probably want to start thinking about like having some NS, like education around, you know, determining values around things like this and actually would work really really well for a business class like of, you know, exploring the whole concept of buying and trading and, and things like that in there and in our sort of early exploration of some of the environmentally friendly blockchains and marketplaces we I think I stumbled upon that because I was finding on like the blockchain, a lot of the pieces of artwork were sort of valued super super low like just a few cents to a few dollars for a piece, and I'm fairly certain that is that younger kid audience kind of experimenting with this and learning all about buying and selling and trading this. So yeah, there's, it's, it's really all about it's in that space right now where it's all about thinking up the possibilities and creating those possibilities. Rather than, and I think that's where this is exciting and where it's exciting to kind of like, I'm hoping to find some people out there that you know kind of want to join in the conversation on on how we can play with this with with open and, and create some of those opportunities out there that that might not exist yet, or that nobody's dreamed up yet. And as a result then. Congratulations. That is a very exciting vision. And I have to say, Erica, I learned a lot of new stuff just by listening to you and I'm definitely inspired. I've got an odd background so I'm very interested in joining in with that. I'm just going to wait a moment and to see if Mark has any particular questions, but we still have time for that. But because we want to give a bit more space for discussion, I am going to stop the recording here. So from us here all at OER 22. Thank you so much for an amazing presentation.