 Hello, how's everybody doing? Welcome. I'll fix this real quick. Welcome, guys. Welcome to class cast number 31, I believe it is. I believe it is class cast number 31, and we are here with Joanna, Jonah, Furious Paul, whatever you want to call him, Vanilla Wow Speed Leveling Legend himself, the world record holder for actual retail Vanilla Wow Speed Leveling at four hours and 20 minutes. And he's also well known for his guides. A lot of you guys have probably already looked at his guides, but if you haven't, you should definitely check them out. Joanna, it's good to have you, man. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And of course, guys, we are here, as usual, with tips out, baby, with Stay Safe TV. And let's go ahead and get it started. Joanna, how'd you get started with Wow? When did you start playing Wow and what got you interested in it? Well, I've been a Blizzard fan my entire life. Ever since Warcraft II, I love Warcraft II. We had Warcraft II LAN parties all the time, and then we switched over to Diablo I, played Diablo I a lot, so that was very, very fun. And then Diablo I and Diablo II, and then we played Warcraft III a lot. That was one of my favorite all-time games, is Warcraft III. So at that point, I was willing to play any Blizzard game that they came out with. I didn't care what genre it would be. So I never played an MMO, and when Wow came out, I was willing to play. I'm like, this is a Warcraft genre. I'm going to play it. And I started playing, and I'm like, wow, this is a new type of game I never even played before. And this is actually fun. I'm meeting people in the game and doing quests and stuff. This is awesome. And I just fell in love with the game, and I just kept playing it. There you go. That's awesome. And just to correct myself real quick, I misspoke, and I said four hours, 20 minutes. I meant to say four days, 20 hours. So I'm very nervous. I'm not used to streaming. I don't do that very much. So yeah, it was a new experience for me. Well, dude, I mean, Joanne is famous. So back in my day, back in my day, when I was a kid playing Wow, there were two famous people, like back back in the vanilla Wow days. From my point of view, there are two famous people. It was Joanna and it was Cungan. And everyone knew Cungan because he was like the best player in the entire planet. And then everyone knew Joanna because he was the best level. And his ads were on every single website. You couldn't go anywhere and not see a Joanna advertisement. Yeah. But back then it was like the two famous people I knew. Yeah, that's true. And like, I've talked about that before, too. Like there really wasn't a whole lot of people. Like now, I mean, you have streaming and this and there's a lot more like people of like interest. I guess, you know, just because there's more people around, there's more avenues for it. But I think it was back in the day. It was probably really hard to kind of stand out from the pack when there really wasn't that many avenues to do so. So yeah, definitely really, really cool to have you on here. And so you said you played a bunch of Blizzard games. You played Diablo, Warcraft, all this stuff. And you kind of had a history as a speed runner before. Wow, right? Correct. Yeah. I've been speed running games since I was seven years old, starting off Castlevania II, Simon's Quest. And then I speed ran Doom II, Quake I, and then Super Castlevania IV in 1997. And then I speed ran Starcraft II, Brutal Campaign, Wings of Liberty. And what else did I do? There might be some other ones I missed on there. But yeah, I just love speed running. It's just awesome. I started playing WoW with not the intention of speed running though. I just wanted to play it just for fun. Actually for like the first full year and a half or so, I did just level 60 content raids. I did all that stuff for like the first year and a half. And then as Blizzard started releasing brand new servers, and I would jump on them and start playing on them from 1 to 60, and I realized how much fun that was for me. And I decided to actually take the time to actually research and how to do them faster, like do the next realm faster. I would actually just stop rating, stop doing the level 60 content and just spend all my focus on figuring out how to actually do the next realm even faster. So yeah, I mean, you basically just worked really hard at taking what you already had and then just kind of refining it down over and over and over again. Yep, pretty much. Yeah, just over and over again, practice and research. I did a lot of research, like looked up on Thoughtbot, like all the quests in the game and just trying to see how I can incorporate them into the route. And because of that, like that actually made a really good leveling guide. Like most people who first used my guide back in the day, one of the main things they said was, wow, I didn't know about this quest. I didn't know about this quest. All these quests here are like, you know, people who first went through the game and they didn't realize how many more quests there were to do. And they were all organized nicely into the route. And that's what made my guide, like really, really good. Right. So did you play a Hunter from day one, or was it just incidental that you ended up playing the class that was the fastest at leveling? Well, when I first started playing, wow, I played a Warlock for like the first whole year. Like I was like, yeah, I got two level 60 Warlocks. I was actually first to 60 with the second one I did. But that was a playtime of 10 days. I did a playtime of 10 days and I still was first to 60 on that realm just because everyone was just so new with the game. And most people didn't even weren't even really into like speed leveling or anything. They're just like all casual players. Like every single wild player was like a casual player. Like even me at the time, I got first to 60 with 10 days playtime just because I played 18 hours every single day. Yeah. It's funny you say that because I remember specifically there's this warrior on our server that got to level 60 in like nine days, like 15 hours played. And everyone thought he was like a god because that was like one of the fastest times on Shadow Song, like up until that point. And nowadays, obviously like nine days is whatever. But back in the day, like 15, 18, 20 days played to 60 was pretty much the norm for the most part. Yeah. At least, yeah. Yeah, like for me, like I said before, I've never speed leveled. I've never really focused on speed leveling or anything. And I expected to take me probably like nine or 10 days played. And I would be really happy with that. And that's like the strategy of beating my head against the wall and hoping for the best. So, you know, paladins aren't the fastest levelers, but on top of that, like myself, like I've never really practiced that. Like I mostly do like PvP and like end game content. So, so yeah, I think it's just crazy to think how much has changed. And also to kind of add on, you talked about how all the wild players were like as a player base, wow was very, very casual. That is also really funny. If you played other MMOs and stuff in the past and just gaming in general, like everybody would call wow the Care Bear game. So, it's cool to see like how the game has developed over the years and people have found out that wow is a game that you can play more hardcore, vanilla wow is a game that you can play more hardcore if you want to. Almost to the point where the attitude has changed and it has a reputation of being super difficult or super hardcore when the reality of it is that it's a game that's very casual friendly. And you can really play the game any way that you do want to play the game. So, yeah, I think it's cool that you mentioned that too. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Speaking of that, when did you really like take a step back from wow? Because I think you played all through TPC, right? But how far did you play? I played all the way through Miss of Pandaria. I actually made leveling guides all the way to Miss of Pandaria and I was going to play WOD, but there's two reasons why I didn't. One, I started to lose interest in the game just because the way the game was headed. I didn't like how things were becoming linear. It wasn't as fun to speedrun or even put a guide together or even using a guide for modern WOD. Since everything was just all linear, you didn't even need a guide. And at that point, I couldn't get beta access to WOD because I was going to write a leveling guide for WOD but simply because of the fact that I did not get beta access and also I was losing interest in it. I didn't even care at the time like, okay, it's time to move on and do something else with my life. And that was when I decided to be a full-time streamer on Twitch with the name Furious Paul, streaming retro Castlevania games full-time for like four years. Yeah. So did you ever at all think that you'd be going back to wow? Actually, no, I thought that it was over. I thought that I was done. Like I did not think that classic wow would come back out. Even though like the private server scene was going on and I was kind of jealous that I wasn't in there. People were playing it and I was just still the streaming Castlevania stuff full-time. And I seen that people were playing on that. I'm like, wow, I kind of wish I was on there, but that was private server stuff. I don't want to do that. And then, you know, and plus, you know, Jay Allen Bragg said, you think you do, but you don't. And I'm like, oh man, they're never going to come on with that. And then like, and then they announced it in 2017. I'm like, no, no way. Like my jaw dropped down to the floor. I'm like, all right, it is time to play wow again. Yeah. I think it's crazy, man. Like so many people think like it's almost like a, it's like a chance to go and like relive the glory days. And especially for guys like you who they actually had glory days, not like glory days being like, oh, I leveled to 60 and I died a lot in molten core. But like actually like you were somebody who was very well known and vanilla and kind of throughout the history of like early wow in general. I think I think it's definitely like really, really exciting to see that. And you can see that. I mean, even in your stream. So those of you guys who don't know, Joanna has been rerunning his old world record leveling Vaude. Or I say Vaude, it was it was a recording back then. And he's been, he's been replaying on his channel right now and he just kind of has it running. And he comes in from time to time. And he talks to the chat too. Just kind of giving commentary. So you guys should definitely go follow Joanna and check that out. Leading up to classic. And then once classic comes out, he's going to do his his leveling route, his is the newest version of his leveling route. So how much of things changed from retail vanilla to classic wow and just what all have you learned and kind of broken down even more? How much faster at time do you think you can get? Oh, well, yeah, the 2006 video that I recorded, I wrote the first ever leveling guide for World of Warcraft based on that video. Like I even just watched the video back and wrote down step by step what I did. And that was the first leveling guide for Wow. Since then, you know, it's been 12 years now. And I was actively updating my leveling guide nonstop, at least for vanilla until actually even through TBC because TBC had a lot of the same stuff with one to 60 vanilla. So I was updating my one to 60 stuff even during TBC. And that stuff was constantly like new routes for being found and new strategies. And even over the last year and a half, I've spent, you know, full time work just updating my leveling guide and there was new death warps found everywhere, new tips and tricks everywhere. I totally remastered my hoard leveling guide and even finally made an alliance leveling guide. And yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of new route changes and new strategies and stuff like that, like everywhere. So Stay Save is kind of like Stay Save is as far as our classic cast crew. He is like our leveling guide. Stay Save is always working on speed leveling and stuff as a warlock. So I know, I mean, he mentioned this earlier, Stay Save is maybe a little bit extra excited to have you on. Stay Save, I know you've got a lot of questions. I got to say, like, I feel bad even as far as Speed Living goes, even being mentioned in the same sentence as Joanna, because I, like, I'm like fanboying pretty hard for Joanna, dude. Like, I'm not even going to lie. Joanna, like, like he said, he was, that was the first vanilla while leveling guide, right? And that's, that was like the, that was the gold standard for vanilla while leveling, right? So that's really cool. But I guess like the most important question I got to ask you is, how do you feel about this? And we brought this up, the dungeon grinding aspect sort of becoming the new speed leveling meta for classic WoW. Is that something that back in the day you had envisioned? Did it even occur to you that dungeon grinding might be better than what you were, than what you were doing? Or what are your thoughts on that in general? Well, I don't really know. I mean, from what people have told me during the beta that dungeon grinding is effective. I feel like with dungeon grinding, you're going to need to have, you're being a really good guild, like a, you know, a guild, people in your guild that's knowledgeable with vanilla while know how to do the dungeons, know how to go through them. And, you know, if you're in a good guild, then dungeon grinding can be very effective. But if you're in a guild with, say, a bunch of noobs that are new to classic WoW, you're going to have a really tough time doing dungeons. Yeah. I mean, they're still fun though. But like, you might just have it, you know, you won't be as fast as say, like a guild that's very knowledgeable that knows how to go through the dungeons. I think you're right. And I think like the biggest component that makes the dungeon grinding method a challenge is the human element. You know, because for a lot, let's say we're talking classical launch the first week or two weeks and you're thinking about doing dungeon grinding, you have to have a group of five people that are all on the same schedule. And if one person wants to stay up late or one person wants to go to bed early or you oversleep, you know, your, your group is thrown off. You're thrown out of sync, right? So that's, that's a big problem. Yeah. You need good organizational skills with the dungeon grinding all the way through. Like especially if you're going to be doing a speed run from one to 60, I mean, I like to see that. I like to see a dungeon grind one to 60 speed run and see what kind of times that people can get from that. But yeah, you're going to need good organizational skills, a good group of people, probably even more than five people, you know, like so that you'll have people that are sleeping there, you know, and ones that are sleeping, the ones that are available to actually do the dungeons that are playing the game. And yeah, just good organizational guild Let me ask you guys this. I mean, who, who do you think? And I guess we can ask also which class, but world first classic while level 60 is this going to be a guy that's been or girl that's been blasting dungeons in a good guild dungeon grinding or is this going to be a solo or duo open world leveler? What do you guys think? It's, it's tough to say. I will say that dungeon grinding. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to test it across every single level range, especially because the last beta ended at level 44. I will say it's, it's pretty insane. Like RFC levels, like getting 20 21,000 experience per hour at that. That's like 35 minute levels. And then you go into wailing caverns and it's even more and you're still getting like 35 40 minute levels in the 20 and the consistency, you know, not having to really leave the dungeon, unless you want to vendor or train skills, you're pretty much doing the same repetitive task for an over again, not having to adapt. Just constantly doing the same thing, improving at every run. It's pretty damn fast. Now is it, you know, solo hunter fast? I don't know. We saw, you know, obviously Joanna pulls amazing times. We saw some hunters pull like one to 40 in like 39 38 hours. I can't really say, but I do feel like dungeon leveling. If you're able to have that five man group, especially when it comes to the pre rate best in slot process and difficulty for molten core, I definitely think it's the way to go. But again, as Joanna said, you need that coordination. You need that five stack. You need to wake up together, sleep together, not sleep to get, not sleep together, sleep at this at the same time. Yeah, no, no, I mean, whatever, whatever works, right? Whatever works. Yeah, sleep at the, yeah, exactly. So, um, yeah, you need to make sure that everything's coordinated. But I think in terms of not just getting one to 60, but getting one to 16 I think the five man stacking is pretty good. But who knows? Yeah, I think what I think is probably going to happen. It's pretty well documented that hunters are considered the fastest levelers as far as like questing and stuff like that goes. With dungeon grinding Well, first, let's explain why why dungeon grinding has recently become a thing in the beta. So a lot of the stuff that people have found out about vanilla wow over the course of the last 15 ish years has been stuff that's been figured out on private servers. And the reality of it is not everything that was on private servers was correct, right? There's been different private server cores, things have been refined. Yeah, believe it or not guys, believe it or not. Not everything was exactly right. So there's been different, like private server cores, there's been different things that have been figured out, researched, refined, a lot of guesswork. I mean, we had nano who's the quality assurance lead on the Nostalrius team. And Nostalrius kind of set the standard. That's that's when this whole thing really like the ball got rolling on like official like, not official, but but blizz like is the term that's used blizz like private servers blizz like for a lot of private servers, Nostalrius Nostalrius really went and set the standard for that and he said it himself. He's like you had some stuff that was data mined and some stuff that was just literally guesswork and researched off of off of like way back machine and looking at old thought bot comments and stuff like that. So to kind of get the to go into the beta and to kind of get to test everything and really get to work everything out. A lot of people learned a lot of things and the one thing that is a big deal is that elites, I think we're giving 200% XP and I may be wrong on this, but elites were giving 200 XP 200% XP on private servers whereas they were actually supposed to be giving 300% XP on top of that on private servers elites were doing much more damage than mobs of that level where typically they would do about the same damage that would just have a lot more health as an elite, at least by the end of vanilla wow and people were misremembering how this worked and private servers were kind of just guessing stuff out. You know what's funny, I think it's I think it's actually 250% for 250 of those years. You know what's so funny, that's such an easy fix to catch because there are so many old vanilla wow dungeon videos. It would have been such an easy thing to observe and then fix on a private server, but you know, they were like, you know, 6 or 7 years of private servers that never caught it. Well, I mean, not to take too much credit away from them. I think there's obviously, you know, vanilla wasn't static it was not one giant monolith it was patched out. There's a chance I don't know if this is true or not, but there is a chance that some things, including experience values were different in like patch 1.2 or 1.3 or 1.4 versus patch 1.12. And I think that's a lot of the differences between private servers and classic wow. It seems like a lot of that has to do with 1.12 specifically implementing a series of nerfs and stuff like that to mobs and stuff. So that could definitely be a possibility, but I don't want to take away too many too much credit from private server developers. They did do a lot of research for sure. Real quick, I think I think Joanna might have deceived Joanna, you still with us? He's leveling did working on the guy. Joanna just hit 60 in classic wow. My god, this guy is fast. He's already level 60. Yeah, I mean, hopefully we'll get him back here soon, but we can kind of keep going on that. But essentially yeah, that's what's happened. So it's 250 not 300, my mistake. But you've kind of taken the bar and you've increased you've made it less difficult and increase the reward. So naturally dungeon grinding has become more of a thing than what people had expected in the past. Now something else to consider, something else to consider in the beta was the fact that we got to level 30 and everybody was stacked. I mean, it was a totally different meta and everybody there it is. Here, let's see. Let me go ahead and see if we can get this working for a three man in the meantime. Three man sleep together. Yeah, that's just how it goes. Yeah, let's do this. Let's get this going. Let's see if we can figure this out real quick. Just in the meantime. Yeah, that's fine. We can just go like this for now until I mean, it's fine. It is what it is until until Joanna can come back. So his internet just went out. But but yeah, anyway. Sorry, just to continue. So you've increased the reward, you've reduced the difficulty and in the beta people were like totally stacked at level 30 and essentially what's happened is that you started and they added the beta level 40. So it might have been a little bit easier than we expected to become classic launch because you have like full base at level 30. But whenever they re-release the beta last week, we had templated characters and our stats were absolutely terrible. So it's like you guys in chat. I swear you guys make me laugh all the time. No, you're absolutely right. I have actually not done on the beta personally, a lot of dungeon grinding testing, but I have seen, I've watched a lot of other people's bots where they've been testing it with various comps and what I've seen, you know, they've been testing RFC and deadlines and and all of these dungeons. There's a lot of wiping that goes on and it's because they're not as stacked as people were when the beta cap was increased from 30 to 40 and everyone had inji grenades and they had a chance and they had a full level 30 best in slot and they had all this stuff and in potions and consumes. So it'll be interesting to see how much struggling is going on if people are trying to push these dungeon grinding routes. We'll have to see, I don't know. Yeah, I agree 100%, like not having engineering and old them on. Like when we were running old them on for like pendulum of doom drops towards the end of the like you'd pull up million packs, you'd rotate your iron grenades or whatever, thorium grenades, whatever you wanted to do and you would just clear trash so frickin fast doing it again on this most recent stress test much much more difficult like no grenades, no interrupts, no rotations and obviously like no frickin four ravagers in a group just me grinding everything down. Yeah, that was another thing. I think if you do do dungeon grinding like let's say you have a melee cleave group or something like that I think that I think that you're going to end up having a situation where you are going to end up getting really good gear. So that's I think that's probably nothing to worry about at that point, but I do think early on kind of the efficiency of speed leveling quickly is going to be the biggest concern. Yeah, I mean whenever Joanne gets back I'd love to hear his thoughts on his thoughts on open world duo leveling you know are there certain comps where he thinks it would be better to duo than just to be a solo for example you know maybe a lot of people say Hunter Druid or Warlock Priest or Warrior Paladin you sort of like iconic duos I would wonder what his thoughts are on that. Yeah, for sure. You know what I want to know? I want to know if he has any secret strategies to get out of the starting zone very fast because at the end of the day all these servers that we've been practicing on at the end of the day come classic launch there's going to be thousands of people in the starting zone all these guides that we see you know maybe a lot of the information just isn't as relevant because you're competing for certain you know mobs and quests and stuff like that. I want to see what he has to say about starting day launch day day one how he plans to get out of the starting zone as fast as possible. Well one thing that I would definitely recommend and he's probably already thought about this but with layering and stuff what he could do is he could try and get an invite to the classic cast layer because right now I mean he's on a completely different layer than we are and we're hoping that he gets an invite back to our layer so if somebody could help him out with that that would be great but unfortunately he's not in our layer right now but I do think layer hopping is one thing that is certainly something that you could take advantage of early on but I think it's kind of inconsistent I got to say I've played on the last two stress tests I'm sure almost everyone here has I played on stress tests over 15 two stress tests so the biggest biggest stress test over there was I feel like if you just have a route like you know okay I go here and then I go there and then I go here and I leave my starting zone at four and then I go here if you have a pre-thought out route one to ten or one to fifteen the launch day is not an issue for you just by having that even if it's not a perfect route even if on practice if you're playing on a private server practicing or if you're playing on the beta just like okay one to ten one to ten one to ten alright nice I got a 205 I got a 153 trying to shave off minutes here if you just have a route really if you have a one to ten time that's like 220 probably it's not going to be a problem for you you're going to get out it's going to be okay and then by the time you're 20 if you keep at that pace really you're going to you have to think there are so many noobs and they're just like gamer bobbing around like these are the people that stand in lines waiting for like you saw the photos on reddit where they stand in line waiting to kill greek near the cold in the gnome starting area like it's like a 30 minute line to kill one monster like don't be that guy just go do literally anything else have a route nowhere to go you're fine dude like the starting zones if you're an above average gamer and you've put any amount of preparation into this at all you're going to be just fine that's my take on it here's the thing though i totally agree with everything you just said but don't you kind of want to be that guy like if it's like if it's your classic launch right especially if you've never played a private server before and maybe you've never even played vanilla before like when i see those people in line dude i'm low-key jealous man i'm like i wish i wish i could do that i wish i didn't have to worry about stream sniping so i could do that man i wish i could just take it all in didn't even have to level just literally rp walk in the starting zone watching everybody else play that's like because you know it's never going to come back again you know this is the last time classic is going to launch you know it's like you want to make the most of it yeah i think i've been pretty i'm pretty vocal about this i think people should play the game how they want to play the game and for me personally when i'm right level when i'm right level to 60 my goal is to try and do everything i can and have the most fun i run around and i do pvp i do quests i do dungeons i group up with people troll the bridge and iron forge i do everything it takes me forever to hit 60 but that's because of two reasons one i'm incredibly 80d and also i like to have a lot of fun with it right and i think everybody should play the game the way that they would like to play the game however i think everybody's in a different situation they have different goals they want to accomplish some people are trying to go to molten cores quickly as possible some people are streaming they're worried about getting camps or something like that in pvp i do think if you're leveling in dungeons you're not going to have to worry about getting camped in pvp and stuff as much but i think that it's just natural that people are like oh you know who's leveling and we talk about it right we've talked to a bunch of people everybody's oh what are you doing for leveling i kind of agree it's going to be a new challenge for me it's going to be a new way to play the game because it's not something that i've done in the past that's true you got to play the game how you have the most fun i will say that being said i will say the benefit of trying to level quickly and having a route there's a plug for joanna's website he actually has a very good route for horde and alliance he's spent a lot of time on the beta lost four or five months working on alliance and horde routes hopefully he'll layer back with us but the benefit of leveling fast okay so you get out of the starting zones early now you're level 15 you're out of the zerg you're no longer competing with other players for quest mobs so now you're 15 to 20 super fast you're pretty much alone okay now you're in the 20 zones you're alone or with other fast levelers being ahead of the zerg like you're already leveling fast and then it snowballs because you have no competition so okay you're alone in the 20 to 30 zones okay you're alone 30 to 40 you're almost alone 50 to whatever so this is really fight it going fast makes you go faster believe you or not it's just like cutting those little corners like that and if you are trying to go for speed do it those little things add up that's something that I have a big problem with I waste a lot of time it's also it's one of those things where I like to and I know a lot of people like this are super efficient all the time but you spend so much time trying to be efficient in the actual let's say dungeon or doing the quest that you end up taking more time overall because you're spending a bunch of time preparing right I was like oh if I have better gear and I do more damage then I can do the quest faster that's like so I'm gonna go do that but by the time I go and like go to the auction house go buy a weapon go do this go do that let me go back and train at the end of the day and I end up kind of like over over tweaking and over analyzing kind of what you're doing is a big issue that I have but that's what's fun for me so I do a lot of that sorry go on tips well I would say just off of the back of that I would say one of the best ways to just you know to really easily save time is to look at your class and see when you want to go back to the train like I think if you get new skills every two levels 60 I think it's like 30 or 31 trips to the trainer if you cut that down to like 7 or 8 you've already saved yourself like 2 hours in leveling something not 2 hours but something like that you have to spend 5-10 minutes going out of your way back to the trainer and then you got to spend the gold to buy the skills that you didn't need to spend which means you got to spend more time farming that gold back up to get your mounts stuff like that so if you just find just a quick little tip if you find a way to reduce the amount of times you have to go back to the trainer that's like a nice little way to shape off a couple of hours no you're right I mean there are very inconvenient spots to level and then train so let's say I'm a warlock in Desilis and I don't have a warlock trainer in Kalimdor and I have to go back to Eastern Kingdom to train my warlock skills if I'm in Desilis from 33 to 35 am I going to go back to Ironforge at 34 train and come back to Desilis and get to 35 no like you just keep blasting so you're right being smart about when you train your skills is really really important so just to clarify we don't have any word from Joanna yet I tried sending him a DM on Twitter oh no he literally just responded his power went out so hopefully his power will be back on soon if it's not that's fine that's not power so his power went out and he's trying to get it back on we'll see what happens his stream went offline too just one more quick shout out to Joanna's stream if you guys want to go take a look at that he's been running his 2006 speed leveling record recording not VOD but a recording because they didn't have VODs back then so if you guys want to do that he's been running that leading up to Classic Launch and it's been pretty interesting watch he's been there giving commentary and whatnot too he's in chat there he is my power went out I just got your DM as soon as you can get it back on it's totally fine dude no worries I wish he was here to talk about this because this is a great discussion and if he comes back we can pivot back on to this but let's talk about world first level 60 so which class and we talked about dungeon vs open world is it going to be a hunter, is it going to be a mage is it going to be a druid is it going to be a warlock I found this and didn't really expand on it too much I don't think it would be crazy I don't think it would be crazy for it to be a mage kind of given the situation with speed leveling and stuff like this like we've heard from a few guys different strategies and whatnot I think the fastest 60 on some of the most recent private servers that have opened up mages have been up there hunters are always up there hunters are always up there but mage is kind of it's kind of come to the forefront recently well dude so what I've heard is that mage open world aoe grinding that is not as efficient on Classic WoW because of leeway and because of just the way mobs interact with you but when I say mage I'm not thinking open world aoe grinding like we've seen people do on private servers I'm thinking mage spell cleat because I know there are a lot of guilds going for world first regneros or whatever they're doing four mages one priest and I think those guys are going to blast I really think that they're going to shoot up there man yeah I mean you can do that much damage the more damage you do the less mana you use the less mana you use the less downtime you have the biggest concern would be basically not over pulling I guess with that many mages in a spell cleat dungeon group because if you over pull then you'll wipe and pulling a little bit less when it comes to speed pulling a little bit less and making sure that you're alive and you can just do the next pull is way better than than risking dying right so you're kind of trying to find that happy medium like if you die like it's your xp per hour every time you die there's tanks I was watching a vaude I'm not going to say who it was it was a group that was practicing I think they were level 15 or 16 trying to farm ragefire chasm in Orgammar it was a horde group and every time they would wipe you have to run back from razor hill it's like good god is this is this worth it oh my god this is so slow yeah even even something like scarlet monastery scarlet monastery has a pretty close graveyard that's considered one of the close graveyards you die in the dungeon and it's considered a short walk but even that amount of time you get in, you rebuff, you drink, you do all this stuff it adds up it can make a pretty big impact so yeah for sure I think starting out spell cleave later on in vanilla early vanilla I would say it's a little bit harder with AOE grind as a mage but whenever you have your full kit because mages get pretty much their full kit by the time they level 40 it's pretty close different classes have power spikes at different levels I don't think it would be crazy to see mages go in there and then be able to AOE grind in the world pretty freely if they're far ahead from a lot of other people like in the plague lands and other places like that from what I understand the big problem with AOE grinding right now in classic versus private servers is the three fold the first thing is the respawn timers aren't static and that apparently how it is I'm not entirely sure but from what I heard you kill a mob it has a 5 to 7.5 minute spawn window or something like that so it's not necessarily going to respawn right at the 5 minute mark which means if you're pulling like a pack of let's say 10 mobs maybe only 6 of them or 4 of them are up by the time you want to do your next pull and the second thing and I noticed this like this is, I'm sure you guys noticed this too have you noticed like the mob pathing, not the pathing, the mob patrol like have you ever noticed the mob just randomly sprint out of nowhere I don't even know what you call that but basically they're not just like naturally walking around they're typical patrol out of nowhere a mob will just freaking go full spur and just like run I gotta tell you, so I had done a lot of leveling practice on private servers before we ever got our hands on the classic alpha back down here in California, the 3 of us and we sat down and I was doing a 1-10 run I was sitting next to Esfawn down in California and I was in frost main hold, I was like level 7 and a troll just runs like I've never seen a patrol before, just runs out of nowhere and I die and I'm like okay I was pissed like okay this is great so yeah like mobs are way more mobile they've never played the classic alpha or beta or you know the stress test if you've only played private servers in the last 7 or 8 years whatever it might be mobs are so mobile, they move you really have to be looking over your shoulder because they just like tips is right they just come out of nowhere and striker has a real interest in combat I haven't heard this yet but he's saying the reason that happens is because they have rules to be in certain places at specific times and if they fall short of that really interesting I had no idea that's the first time I heard that reasoning for it but whatever it is it's super annoying especially for mages that rely on mobs being up at particular times and like you said on top of that the melee leeway is another big thing, mobs being able to hit them from further range makes it more risky on top of that the way blizzard applies it's slow proc it's not instantaneous like it is on private servers I think there's either some spell batching there or it takes like a full tick of blizzard before the frost effect kicks in so the mobs get more distance on to you and a lot of mobs get out of the blizzard AOE before they get hit by the blizzard and it creates a lot of problems so I think specifically with mage AOE farming I think you might see it in certain level ranges in certain areas but I don't think it's going to be like the consistent thing that people just do from like level 30 to 60 on private servers I think it's going to be much more niche but spell cleave on the other hand like you were talking about the four mages like dude I've seen some mages freaking power through dungeons and the way I've seen it is two of them speck arcane two of them speck frost and they just they literally arcane explode all over mobs it's actually yeah I think I think it's going to be really really interesting give me just one second I'm going to go to the bathroom real quick you guys can just continue on from yeah I've heard that there are several guilds looking for world first regneros what they're doing it's super try hard but they're having a roster of 25 mages and they're going to spell cleave the way up to 60 and then 20 of the 25 mages are going to re-roll to their normal class that they normally play but they're only doing the mage spell cleave because they're going all in with the spell cleave because I think it's so powerful and so fast they'll re-roll once they go regneros and play their normal classes and on out so the spell cleave dream is real I think yeah for sure that's crazy though like rolling a class specifically for world first now will it be worth it I don't know how you feel about the stay safe do you feel like world first rag in classic is like really prestigious and everybody in the chat right now I'm curious to what you guys think do you guys think world first rag in classic carries a lot of weight what do you do Ed what do you think stay safe I think okay I don't really think it has a ton of prestige but I think it would garner a ton of viewership like on Twitch imagine you're streaming that right you would have in your title world first regneros world first one core like I think it would get a lot of viewers so if you're a guild that's looking to promote yourself right I think it's a great way to do that yeah true and there's all sorts of discussions that have afterwards how did we do it it's a video series etc so as far as like the content you get out of it I think it would be worth it if you're a guild looking to put yourself up there personally I think speedruns have a lot more value I think speedruns are better for the vanilla wow or classic wow competitive scene than world first stuff because I mean like if there's any world first in classic wow that matters or the one that has the most is probably regneros because let's say BWL comes out it's down within an hour right AQ4 it comes out it's down within an hour 90 minutes you know NAX is out it's cleared within an hour or two hours like this is stuff it's just like whoever gets there first and then you have the debate okay NA lockout is before EU lockout NA will probably if it works with the lockout thing because this stuff is going to be so easy to roll through you know NA might just get all the world like you might have NA in a fairing world first NA just because we get it a day earlier something else add on to it like a lot of people say like rag world first or whatever it's not really going to be that big of a deal but the reality of it is like you said all the 1% all the top 1% guilds are probably going to go and clear it the first day of the reset rag on the other hand you're leveling to 60 you're organizing a guild you're getting everybody together you're getting people the quintessences the pre raid I think rag is way more exciting than anything else just because it's going to be so much longer like that is going to be a minimum six day race whereas everything else it's like the first two hours yep yeah that's true now there is also one other boss that I would say is probably the most competitive boss kill in all of classic wow and I would say it's a car fight I think it's probably a car 5 because this is a boss that comes out in phase 4 and I don't think anyone is going to be able to kill a car 5 priest during phase 4 I mean you had people in tier 3 you had people in tier 3 that had been farming axe Ian has a costus guild elitist jerks they couldn't kill it by the end of vanilla wow and they were in some crazy gear so given more time they might have been able to but I think probably a car 5 priest is the most difficult boss in classic wow and I don't think he'll die day 1 of phase 4 I think I don't even know if he'll die phase 4 that's gonna be a really interesting one that's gonna be a really really interesting you might be right but I think the typical player doesn't recognize the difference between like how many bosses are up when you attempt a car and how much more difficult it is and for the typical player they probably look at it and it's like oh a car dead and that's it they don't really think about anything else because there's really no additional rewards other than like a pride thing I think if people talk about it people will come to understand what it means and the thing is like I don't know man I think a car 5 priest will probably be a fight that good guilds use to differentiate themselves from bad or medium guilds I think it's gonna be like ok we did this like that sort of deal I mean it's impressive it's certainly impressive and to those asking in the chat what is a car 5 priest basically the priest bosses in ZG if you leave them up a car gains additional buffs I believe so if all the priests are up he gets a lot of different buffs and gets a lot of different stronger basically so yeah being able to kill them with all those bosses up that's what he's referring to he gets a lot of buffs per priest that's left alive and 50,000 HP more per priest that's alive so it's pretty crazy a car 5 priest has like 75% or 80% of the HP of Ragnaros which is a 40 man raid so a car 5 priest is a pretty crazy thing obviously there's no extra loot or reward to it well it was never killed during vanilla wow so who knows what if there's some Easter egg thing that happens when you do kill them during vanilla wow who knows man in my mind that's like okay who can do this who's capable of doing this imagine he drops like a secret legendary no one knew about yeah that'd be wild in my mind it's really funny in my mind a car 5 priest is like the first hard mode boss and this is something there's actually a video of Ian has a co-stess on his shaman Gertthog fighting this boss the last day of vanilla wow patch 2.0 they're like okay vanilla wow is over he's in the guild elitist jurist one of the best guilds in the world okay let's go try to do a car 5 priest they wipe on 2% they almost kill him and that was like the first hard mode boss the first raid that Ian has a co-stess this is when he first starts working for blizzard he's a raid designer he goes in and helps design old war which is the first raid or the only raid that has hard modes so I wonder if he took that a car like okay there's a hard mode boss sort of difficulty you can opt into let's see how this plays out in old war I think it's a cool idea I think that's a really good point actually you're probably right because we've had a chance to talk to Ian has a co-stess before and you know he definitely recalled on a lot of his personal experiences in vanilla and burning crusade and stuff he called on a lot of that stuff in terms of the decisions he made early on certainly I'm sure some of that still comes into play now but it's actually a really good point I think you're probably right remember when he said he might consider putting cthun in pre-nerf he was like we might consider putting a cthun in pre-nerf it would be a funny yeah it would be a funny like April Fool's Day thing actually I don't think they would do it but it would be a pretty funny in-game April Fool's joke if all of a sudden they put in cthun pre-nerf on April Fool's Day and they didn't tell anybody I forget actually which one of us asked him you know could do you think could you have killed cthun pre-nerf because he was one of the people in those guilds it was progressing on cthun pre-nerf and he said back then with our skill set and how many hours you were playing probably not but if we were playing the game like method or limit plays the game whether they were doing split runs in preparation and they have the perfect raid comp and they're getting world buffs and all of this stuff they're min-maxing to that level yeah I think guilds probably could have killed cthun pre-nerf so maybe he will do I don't know it would be interesting wouldn't it be so fun to watch honestly and like it would be a nice like a mage to the past but at the same time kind of honoring the present and the skill set of the players today I mean I don't see anything wrong with it put it in pre-nerf you know for a week or two if people like are slamming their heads against their keyboards not able to kill it you can always nerf it but putting it in pre-nerf I think would be really special at least worth it speaking of pre-nerf I don't know if we talked about this one classic cast before but I've been kind of on this for a little bit I've been kind of complaining about this a lot but something else that I'm worried about as far as pre-nerf goes is essentially classic classic is going to be easier than vanilla was and I don't think it's solely because of I don't think it's solely because of we're better gamers now and people have more experience and retail is harder so they're more well practiced and this and that I do think all those things are true but something that really concerns me is you're essentially going to be getting the 1.12 version of whatever phase content you're in so phase one is patch 1.2 you're going to be getting the phase 6 the patch 1.12 version of patch 1.2 meaning everything's post-nerf you have all the best items you have all the newest talents you have all the class balance changes put in and 16-devo slots and I don't think one or two of those things alone is a big deal but I do think that having a situation where all these things are in together it kind of compounds on each other and it ends up being a kind of a mess as far as difficulty I think it might be way too easy and this doesn't really change for the 1% of the typical but for the typical raider the average person going in there and attempting to raid and do all this I think it drastically changes I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong but I'm worried that it's going to be way too easy for the typical player as opposed to the moderate or whatever level of difficulty it was before I don't I'm not saying they should change mechanics or anything like that but what I am saying is I'm just concerned about that how that specific situation is going to play out for the average player I don't want them to have like I don't want the average player to have a bad raiding experience or they feel unfulfilled whenever they go into the raid because the 1% doesn't care the 1% is like whatever easy we're going to kill it day one whatever but for everybody else the majority of players the greater majority of players excuse me I think I think that's an issue it could be I think if anybody here expects to be wiping on Ragnaros for four months you got to get that thought out of your head it's just not going to happen we know so much more about the game now we actually have stable internet connections like you said as fan just forget about all that stuff the game itself it's going to be easier more debuff slots etc especially the first few raids I guess you could say all the way until Naxx because Naxx I believe is the only raid that it would have caught up to the patch Naxx was 111 but you know what I mean in the sense that by Naxx you did have 16 debuffs all the atomization changes most of them were pretty much done by that time so Naxx is probably the only raiding classic that we'll get that's comparable or identical difficulty to how it was back in the day but yeah I'm going to go 180 I think that we the three of us and also most people in chat I think that for so long we have been in our private server slash you know classic wow twitch chat youtube discord sphere for so long that we've been in this like above average classic wow gamer echo chamber most people playing classic wow are going to be total noobs even playing on private servers back in the day you had molten core progression guilds that wiped on garr for weeks that were progressing on reg neurose for weeks even on private servers and the people playing on private servers are the biggest vanilla wow nerds that you can imagine so considering how accessible considering how accessible the classical is going to be like you're going to have so many people that have never played the content before and that are noobs and that aren't very good players they're going to come in and try to do this seriously I think over half of guilds that are over half of players are going to be playing classic wow are going to be in molten core progression guilds most guilds are probably going to fall apart in bwl I'm not even kidding like and if you disagree go do an LFR raid in BFA right now and see how terrible to see how bad these people are that's my take my thing is and I might look I might be shouting Y2K over here I might be shouting Y2K and I totally understand that I totally I acknowledge that I know that that might be what's going on but it's just something I think to consider and something that I'm a little bit concerned about and it's hard to say because we really don't know we really don't know how it's going to pan out because we haven't seen any raid testing so yeah real boomer yeah shouting Y2K so yeah that's the thing that I'm concerned about going forward but I think you're right I think most of the people who are looking at a lot of wow content, classic wow content they're watching Twitch streams all the time they're discussing this stuff this is the above average player you're probably right I definitely think there will be an adjustment period in terms of people even great BFA players today they might not be used to certain threat mechanics they're not used to pulling threat on bosses watching KTM they might not be used to just accidentally breaking a polymorph on a trash mob I haven't played BFA since lunch so I don't know how the raid mechanics are but like accidentally breaking CCs in the suppression room over and over again killing the welps you're not supposed to kill the welps because you're padding meters all of these kind of more modern wow habits that players have to slowly unwind them because those are what's going to hurt players in the long term you don't just pop cooldowns and go on veil right away let the tanks get threat a little bit before you go ham so I think there will definitely be an adjustment period but I just don't think that adjustment period will be very long I don't think it'll be four months on rag or anything like that yeah I think certainly I mean it wasn't that way I wouldn't expect it to be that way anyway if they had it tuned quote properly but I do think classic mechanically and not mechanically but but on paper classic is going to be easier and I don't like to talk about the intangible things right like we mentioned better internet and this and that I don't like to factor that in because I think that kind of skews that skews the information a little bit and I think that when you're making design decisions you can't really factor that stuff in I think you have to look at everything on paper but we'll see we'll see how it plans out and how it goes I mean the three or four months of progression in MC that's going to be a long time I don't know I think something else to look at is how you have the molten core item update in some ways okay so this is something else to talk about in some ways it's going to be difficult on the start for example BWL launch is phase 3 the molten core item update where they add in all the really good molten core items isn't going to come in phase 2 whereas in the past you had gotten those items in 1.5 because how they're working the phases is basically they're clustering two patches together so they're going from 1.1 to 1.12 phase 1 is 1.2 1.6 BWL patch and darkroom fair and so on so if it's 1.5 and 1.6 together in phase 3 that means all those items that are really good that people farm up in MC before starting BWL it's not going to be there prior to BWL being out and since a boss like Velasraz is such a gear check I think in some ways there's increased difficulty in that respect but I don't know how the overall equation that's I totally agree and I think we can all agree on this Classic WoW is the most mechanically challenging game perhaps ever made I think that Lucifron probably has more mechanics and abilities involved in that fight than perhaps all of Mythic Eternal Palace definitely I think we're all on the same page on that one I think that goes without saying I couldn't imagine any game or even physical activity in real life being more challenging than Vinyl WoW that second one that second one actually might going to be true if you're beating your head against the wall you know what that's a good segue into a topic so Joanne is not here but I heard him say this on his stream last week so let's talk about this we were talking about world first level 60 whatever class it's going to be he's not even going for level 60 he just wants to have a better personal record because he knows and this is definitely true for some parts of world first level 60 Classic WoW you have to have a very good route and level very fast and you have to not sleep and you know I don't think he's it sounded like this and if he comes back I hope we can talk about it with him personally it sounds like he's not willing to do like a 40 hour gaming session where other people are and that's really differentiated so I think for him going for a new personal record or personal best world first level 60 these are people and it's two part right you need to play for a long period of time and also be able to play for a long period of time and not have your performance suffer personally at around the 24 hour mark and we all saw this a couple days ago on my stream around that mark I get really stupid just like the brain just starts to shut off yeah so you know that and that's what differentiates someone like me who might be like a 9.9 player versus a solid 10.0 player who is going to be world first level 60 right yeah I think I think that like the mental there's like a big like mental hurdle I think that you have to overcome whatever you're doing something like that I mean it's with anything right you know some people don't care to play that way some people really enjoy playing that way this will be my first time and I'm the same way I kind of just start like I think everybody when they get tired they get like kind of loopy and like just things that are just not funny end up being hilarious and like I said I know I'm certainly that way this is going to be something totally new to me is trying to just like beat my head against the wall until until I hit 60 because for me like level 60 in a month that is good like the last time I leveled the 60 I got the 59 this is on a private server I got the 59 and I started running dungeons at 55 so I got like six piece valor and I got I got good gear good good weapons all this stuff and I went paladin dude you can't wear valor no dude it's the paladin said dude rep prio dude rep prio so I had six piece valor at level 59 as a paladin and I just PvP for a week I just one whole week I was level 59 and I was like hey like I mean I'm good with this and I enjoyed that like essentially 59 twinking before I even hit 60 and that's what was fun for me so I think a lot of people play the game differently and this will be a new experience for me and I don't know I'm pretty excited I'm kind of anxious actually a little bit but it's going to be good so dude less than eight days dude literally seven days 23 hours and 33 minutes there it is yeah less than eight days away so it's it's going to be really really good it's going to be really exciting and I mean finally I mean do you think about like when this whole thing started or I mean even after when the whole thing started but more so whenever the classic announcement happened how much has changed and how much has developed and gone on and you've had excitement you've had anger you've had drama left and right there's always been something going on and I think once we finally have the game everything is going to be laid to rest I think it's just going to be relieving to actually finally have the game it's going to be good man it's going to be really really fun I mean think about where we were a year and a half ago right we were we had legitimate worries about them adding transmog and achievements and Dungeon Fighter to classic wow and now I mean like you know there are some things that are concerning but you know layering but like things are pretty good like do you guys feel optimistic about classic wow oh yeah dude like what you just said right there like think about how bad classic could have gone it could have gotten really bad like they could have really really messed it up they could have completely caved to the modern wow community in many ways and just accommodated every quality of life change they could have cut corners and here we are a year and a half later they're tweeting about like they're repeatedly tweeting about how they do want to remove layering before phase 2 they're only putting in because it's a necessary evil they want to remove it as soon as possible we've got interviews and stuff coming out like this honestly like just thinking about how bad it could have gone like could it be better always but it's pretty much in the upper echelon I think of how it could have gone I think they've done a pretty god damn good job yeah I think I think it's going to be pretty exciting and I mean people are always going to have their gripes I know I'm certainly I'm one of those people I'm pretty reasonable but at the same time like I sometimes get my like I said my Y2K mode and I start looking at like the sky is falling it's the end of the world and I think at the end of the day no it's not going to be the same experience that we had back in vanilla wow it's not going to be the same experience that we had on private servers it is going to be a new experience and it's going to be really really it's going to be really fun for a whole lot of people and I've told the story before but whenever I came back to vanilla and I started playing on private servers in 2017 like this was on that level 59 character I was talking about I did that because I was like I'm not going to play this game for more than maybe a month or two like I'm going to play a little bit I did not want a level at all I was just like man I don't even know if I have it in me I was working on my teaching certificate I wanted to be a teacher I was going to be a football coach that's what I was planning on doing and I knew a lot about ret paladins so then I started making some videos to kind of stay in practice with video I was going to say that's why you're so good at explaining the nuance and intricacy of judgment and seal the crusader yeah and then that's about it so so yeah no so I'm that's like what I wanted to do and then I literally got re-addicted to the game I wasn't expecting that I had more fun playing vanilla wow in 2017 that I remember having in 2004 5 and 6 and I genuinely mean that whenever you're older you have a little bit more control over your life you can figure things out better you're always constantly learning things are changing and no changes no changes things are different now than they were back then so I think getting to play the game again being in a different situation in my life made for the game to be even more enjoyable experience that I have back in the day and I think a lot of other people are going to see the same thing absolutely and as you get older in general you can appreciate stuff more like I don't know if you guys ever taken like a family trip when you were kids or gone to a museum or something like that you see something really really unique and historical and cool like some old-ass painting that was like made by like DaVinci or Michelangelo and you look at the painting and you're like dude this is frickin stupid really really boring no one's ever said that about my art ever but then like 20 years later you go back and you're like wow this is actually really intricate like frickin look at the Mona Lisa dude she's smiling and she's not smiling that's some pretty cool wow you know like you're really really impressed but like memes aside like in general like I remember the you know the first time I went to this there's this place in California right by Malibu and our parents took us there and we were really young and didn't care at all we just had fun on the beach whatever like I go there now and it's like oh my god this is like gorgeous the view is like amazing never could appreciate it I feel the same way about vanilla wow I feel like back in the day it was fun you had fun whatever it was like a nice first experience but going back looking at all the design decisions that went into this game just how deep this game is like from an MMORPG game design perspective seeing like all the unique little items and how they set up progression how they did the PVP system the class balancing the class design you look at all of that now as an adult and you're like holy shit some big brains worked on this game and it's awesome that we get to experience it at this level yeah I think it's gonna be really really good man I really do so just to clarify again because some people have been asking some people are coming into the stream more recently Joanna's power went out there was a big storm and you can see he was doing class cast with us and he's been streaming his VOD of his speed leveling from 2006 so unfortunately there was a big outage for the big power outage for him he's trying to get back on if he can get back on he'll join us again but if not we'd absolutely love to have Joanna on again sometime soon so yeah we're gonna keep continuing on and keep talking about leveling everything else that we wanted to talk about today so just to keep going with that let's put perspective on what speed leveling means so back in the day Joanna's world record for vanilla speed leveling was 4 days 20 hours like you mentioned earlier right this is like private server census information on private servers average player levels 1 to 60 in between 12 and 13 days 12 13 days I believe so all things considered if you have a 7 days or even 8 if you're sub 10 you are doing very well but for most people here in chat because you're in the vanilla scene in the classic scene you're a classic brain everyone here is probably 10 days that's really slow 8 days 9 days that's really slow people that are going for speed leveling they're looking at 5 days probably sub 6 but average player and this is on private servers 12 13 days that's to me that seems really really slow so Joanna did it 4 times faster than that right or sorry 3 times faster than that yeah that's fast so he is really fast yeah it's really impressive and back then too like now a lot of people have gotten their their times down and stuff on private servers now when you have basically infinite ways of oh let's reset here let's do this here let's do that there and you have to add this on and there like on top of the fact that you don't even know what all is 100% accurate on private servers or not is a totally different thing and it really wasn't until the beta until you got something that was that was real so to speak but but yeah so I do think it's going to be something really cool for you guys what or your guys specific plans for leveling to 60 I know Stacey for those of you guys who have been watching Stacey History he's just been like meticulously been trying to grind out his leveling route because for you you think a better option for you is probably going to be questing right I think I'm going to be open world leveling I'm going to be dueling with a priest I think 1 to 20 I think the priest will slow me down 20 plus I'm hoping the priest at least stays the same as solo or maybe even speeds me up a little bit now here's the benefit of the priest the pocket healer priest warlock is very very I play warlock so very good synergy very high up time also you know I'm going to be streaming people are going to be watching I'm probably at certain points will be a target for ganking a world pvp priest warlock is daunting like priest warlock is a good world pvp combo so there's a lot of survivability that I get from having a priest with me what about you guys well I will say I'll second the priest warlock thing good pvp combo dude if I ran into that the open world I just uninstall my game right then and there but I'm doing a 5-man leveling group shout out to all my leveling buddies zulace ebb and flow you guys might know from his youtube videos dqt and k9 thank you guys for dealing with my totalitarianism for this 5-man leveling group we're going to go 40 hours first session then we're going to do 6 hours sleep and 24 624 624 40 hours you want to go 40 hours at once 40 hours dude we're going to do it man whatever it takes I gotta say have you have you ever like played that much have you tested your sleep schedule you're testing your routes have you tested your sleep schedule yeah so the longest I've ever streamed for was around like 36 or 37 hours I did this once like I think it was during bfa when bfa launched around that time I've definitely stayed up longer than that but I guess technically we haven't had the 40 hour mark officially but I'm hoping with some tips out sugar I'm hoping with some stream height classic wow launch all that good stuff and something else that we might hear more about tomorrow I'm hoping that that environment kind of helps us stay awake wait what are we here in tomorrow where what do you mean I don't know I don't know we're here in tomorrow okay very good very good so for me so you're looking at more of a melee cleave is what you're saying right yeah three warriors one shaman and a druid melee cleave okay so for me I I'm not 100% sure on what I want to do yet I'm trying to pull off some kind of crazy stuff to see if it's even possible but I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out who a leveling duo would be for me for the early levels and then kind of meeting up and and getting a group together and the good thing about a paladin is that I can either go melee cleave or spell cleave on the horde side which is pretty cool sorry on the alliance side excuse me as opposed to the horde side is what I meant as opposed to the horde side where there's no paladins right shaman I don't know if shaman is good for spell cleave on horde side I'm not I'm not sure I don't know if you know better than I do tips but I know for a paladin I can go either melee cleave or spell cleave in a spell cleave I could tank and go consecration and basically get a bunch of mages and stuff with a melee cleave I could just be part of the group as normal right now the adaptability of a paladin leads me to kind of think that maybe I don't need one specific set leveling group and I can kind of draw from people in the guild or what not people people who are around the community and be like okay like let's get a group together let's go here let's get a group together let's go here I do think it's ideal to have a set group and go all the way through but I also like the ability to be adaptable because I do think it's really hard to coordinate 5 different people getting them all in the same exact schedule on the same cycle they go to the bathroom at the same time they sleep at the same time I think it's going to be difficult but I don't know I'm not 100% sure on exactly what I want to do yet so I could either go I'm leaning towards spell cleave that's kind of what I practiced on the beta for level 4045 that level range but I think I think we should I think you should open up join us twitter right now holy crap dude uh hold on let's see Monka frickin doubly dude furious paul on twitter let's see okay so I just found out a tornado came through my area only a quarter mile away I'm so lucky to even be alive right now uh yeah holy crap so a tornado just came through where Joanna lives apparently and uh let's see is that showing up on stream right now I know this is totally scuffed because I wasn't planning it like this but uh yeah so dude holy crap point dude the patch 111 weather effects for classic wow are actually crazy oh my god what was the patch called like something storms right storms of azeroth you want to talk about storms I mean hopefully I mean hopefully everything stays okay with Joanna and uh hopefully no friends or family or any of his were harmed either so uh we really hope for the best for Joanna and uh really like hearse in the chat for him man for real yeah he posted a photo sounds like everything's fine but yeah on his end on his end everything's fine yeah um so I would uh I would expect the power to be out for a little bit if a tornado just went through his town so yeah for sure I doubt we'll see him come back today so we just got to go with Adam looks like unfortunately can one of the mods link Joanna's twitter in the chat let's see if we can spam those spam those hearts on Joanna's twitter I think uh he'll yeah so and big big thanks for him I mean he didn't even tell us there was a storm going on so like I mean he just kind of came on and uh it was like yeah like of course like I'd love to come on Classic Cast and all this so um so yeah I mean hopefully hopefully he gets everything sorted for Classic Launch dude dude this is true gamer fashion okay I just found out a tornado came through a quarter mile from my house like he's just in his room playing games talking about classic wow tornado like a quarter mile away from him has no idea yeah wow yeah I mean hopefully everything sorted out for Classic Launch and stuff like that too but no that's absolutely right like I uh I think we all are kind of we're all kind of guilty of that just kind of being on our own world sometime just in our own our own world of Warcraft so um yeah hopefully uh hopefully hopefully everything's gonna be all good there hopefully you can get stuff sorted out for Classic Launch um but yeah um kind of continue where were we sorry uh like your spell cleave crew oh that's right so uh a few different ways of kind of looking at how I might do a dungeon leveling group is uh I'm mostly leaning towards spell cleave and I think we could go uh two paladins like a prop paladin holy paladin uh two mages in a warlock or prop paladin holy paladin three mages or uh prop paladin healing priests three mages the three mages and warlock is kind of interchangeable uh and then also like priest and priest and paladin I think as far as healers go is uh is kind of interchangeable priest has some benefits in that if let's say we have three mages and a priest I can run around and I can pull the mobs I can get power word shield I wait until the the debuff is I forgot the name of the debuff but there's a 15 second debuff where where you can't uh get shielded again I can wait for that to almost run out I pull and then whenever I pull I uh I can't get dazed if I have a shield on so do that and then you can power word shield me again and then we can so that's right so um so yeah I can go I can do that and get two shields in and then run back we have a group all that um I run retribution aura so that whenever I get hit I'll generate a little bit of threat in between the two shields um so that's that's one way of doing it another way is having the warlock if there if we have two mages in a warlock the warlock can can pet pull run around da da da da da da da grab everything and then he could sack his pet as it's about to die or whatever they all come back I heal the warlock if I heal the warlock I can generate some threat from the mobs because he has he's basically just next on the threat table because he pulled with the pet but he doesn't really have any threat uh and then I get added the threat table over him with a heal they come to me I consecrate and then and then I have a pack that we can AoE down um that's that's another way we looked at doing it if we have a paladin healer with a prop paladin then we have two bops right we have two bops which is really nice we have two blessings so we can run uh like salvation and kings maybe or like uh for me I can run sanctuary and wisdom or sanctuary and kings there there's a bunch of different options that we can go with I guess um whenever we have that or or I can get blessing a light on myself which is once you get blessing a light that's a huge huge boost uh to plus healing for for healing paladins so I think that would be really good especially because there's such a low amount of plus healing gear in the game early on I'm I'm gonna say something and you guys can agree or disagree I am unhappy that dungeon leveling has turned out to be so powerful because I think it's not fun I don't think it takes as much skill as leveling routes I I wish it wasn't as viable honestly like I'm salty about it I agree I agree 100% I it sucks man and uh it sucks that you know a lot of people feel pressured to do it myself included um you know it's gonna take a lot out of the world I mean imagine hitting level 32 33 not doing stv you're just you're stuck in SM grinding it over and over and over again because that's the most efficient thing to do and here's the thing just to clarify you don't have to play that way right you don't have to play that way but I do think it takes away from I think it's cooler to have like a really well refined leveling around you're doing your quest you're doing this it takes way more skill like it takes way more planning I should say it takes way more preparation um and skill I mean there's skill involved in that too like to me I think being able to focus on something for so many hours is a skill right and I say that because I'm so bad at it but maybe for other people it's easy to have perfect perfect 100% concentration at all times um yeah I think uh I think dungeon leveling being so good certainly takes away from like the I guess the prestige of being a fast leveler whatever but um I should say like the the efficiency of dungeon leveling but um like I think it just kind of is what it is at this point so yeah I would say I mostly agree with you um I mostly agree with you about that it's kind of it does take away with from from that yeah yeah and all that being said I think that probably I think that probably world first regnaros is going to go to whichever guild has the most effective and efficient dungeon cleave groups they get there fast there's guilds that are stacking 25 mages cleave in their way up culling regnaros they're having their entire raid roster not their entire you know half the raid roster reroll to different classes to their normal classes after they kill regnaros with their mage cleave team so yeah I mean like it this is not anything new it's it's the best players doing whatever it takes to be the most successful I mean you see this in BFA you see people that you see guilds that have you know on gohun right I think you had guilds that have like six warlocks or something like you know class stacking it would it class stacking is not not the most fun thing but uh it's good players doing whatever it takes to be the best right yeah I was like 20 20 druids on nefarion and tier 11 blackwing just taking advantage of the snapshotting it was paragon they didn't get banned for it but blizzard banned insidia the previous tier sorry yeah yeah I uh I don't really know too much too much about that just because I kind of been on a wow for a lot of years like during that period of time with like from like cataclysm on really wrath on but it does seem to be that class stacking is something that's really really uh not only viable but in some ways uh or in some cases it's it's actually most optimal class stacking in retail wow this wasn't always I mean this this wasn't always uh or sorry sorry this this wasn't something that never happened in vanilla wow either though like we've seen people go in there with like 20 warriors or something some crazy number of warriors and just stacking that like deep into vwl or whatever for speed runs like once once they get a bunch of their gear and stuff into uh now that was on private servers again so so we'll see how that pans out whenever it's real but um I don't think I don't think class stacking is 100% not a thing in vanilla wow either oh no you're right like as far as speed runs go it definitely was like melee stacking early on and like mage stacking in next yeah you're totally right you're totally right um I'm just salty about about the dungeon grinding leveling aspect like it's just you know this is this is personal preference I just think it's so not fun I just don't want to do it man mm-hmm I mean it can be fun like when you the nice thing about it is you got your homies on disc um and you know at the end of the day it's five dudes just having to get time yeah just dude now just dude now dude mm-hmm staying awake together sleeping together well dude I think I think that in a lot of ways like a lot of people are saying like oh man like how's this going to affect the streams right I think there's still going to be fun stuff going on the streams and stuff like that but I think it essentially turns your like it's essentially going to turn the the the streams where your dungeon leveling and stuff into almost almost like a radio show right where you're talking to other people you're pulling other people in a voice and stuff like that and I think it's still going to be fun it's just going to be different than running around leveling out in the world so that's just something um that's just something to consider I guess yeah yeah I think as far as stream content goes I think the dungeon grinding is going to be a lot less relatable to the average viewer than open world leveling because most people watching the classic streams are not going to have a dedicated dungeon leveling team so I think that people will probably want I don't know I don't know from a viewer preference what they'll want to watch more dungeon versus open world open world they might be able to copy a route or talk to you about your route most people probably will not be able to be in a 24 hour dungeon grinding team I don't know I'm not sure mm-hmm listen you warlocks are speaking from a position of privilege okay not all of us can solo level in peace okay some of us need to be carried through dungeons over and over again it's just how it goes alright as fan yeah it is what it is it is what it is I think I think paladins are typically slower levelers too uh so and any sort of like paladins synergize with a lot of classes really well for example like like paladin warriors like an s tier duo um but but on their own they uh they they don't do too too well I would say so they just synergize with other classes really well and even honestly even two paladin synergize fairly well together but it's just how it is like everybody's different every class is different you know I see this in chat someone brings up a good good point or good question and I don't really have much faith in this but we don't really know how easy the 40 plus so I guess like 45 plus dungeon art like just because you can cleave stock aides or whatever does not mean you can cleave brd and I think you probably can I don't think they're going to be that much harder I don't think it's going to be that sharp of a of a incline difficulty but uh I mean the point stands no one has tested this content in classic right that is that is true do I think it's going to be crazy hard I don't think so dude fair point fair point yeah um pretty soon guys we'll we'll go to a little bit of q&a if you guys want to go ahead and tweet at us at tips out baby stay safe warlock at Svan TV go ahead and tag it with hashtag classic cast and I'll go through and check that out um I'll go through and we'll we'll check that out we'll take some questions from Twitter and we might take some questions from chat as well um also if you haven't already uh you should definitely go follow uh you should definitely go follow stay safe TV should follow tips out baby and and you can follow our friend Joanna who joined us early on again his his power went out and uh there was a tornado near his house unfortunately so uh we don't have him here with us right now um also uh something else that you guys can do is give me one second real quick uh we are sponsored by Displate as well we are sponsored by Displate so uh if you guys haven't already you guys can check out Displate uh is the command exclamation point Displate working sometimes it breaks and it doesn't work uh but they're metal posters uh I have some on there myself but we are sponsored by Displate and you guys can check that out as well um let's see let me load this guy up right here um so yeah you guys can do this click everything's super scuffed right now um but yeah you can you can check out Displate right here they do they do metal posters and all kinds of really cool stuff so uh you guys can check that out as well there's also a link to Displate down in my bio below um true I'm gonna run to the bathroom real quick and we'll take some questions soon let's transition to the questions I'll start the first one when you're gone you can come back and pick up the answer I've had I've had way too much water today I'll tell you what I'll be right back okay yeah well hey it's important to stay hydrated it's very very important guys um this is a question from Tuna Tornado on Twitter here um and this is a good question I actually don't know the answer I'm sure TIPS and S1 might have an idea and maybe even you guys that watched um other streamers level from 30 to 40 on the beta two months ago do you guys think Tuna Tornado do you guys think the dungeon leveling groups will have enough gold for their mounts at 40 I'm actually not sure TIPS what do you think about that so we had this discussion um I think if you you're gonna be getting a lot of greens and a lot of blues during dungeons depending on your comp you'll be opening up a lot of chests a lot of the lock chests etc um I think you should be able to have enough gold you just have to be smart about what you vendor what you disenchant and what you keep for the auction house um but it's definitely gonna be really really tight you should have enough also you're gonna have a lot of cloth as some people are pointing out in the chat it just depends on how smart you are about auction housing certain things and keeping certain things naturally because you're spamming dungeons you're gonna get a lot of nice blue BOEs which should be pretty nice the higher up you go you know you get a drop or something like that you know if you got your basically minted at that point so I do think you'll have enough for your level 40 mount um now when it comes to your level 60 epic mount probably not that's definitely gonna require a lot of extra grinding oh yeah like no one hit 60 with enough gold for the epic mount like like if you're smart you hit 60 with like 150 200 g if you're just if you're just playing like no one hit 60 with a thousand gold but you're saying 40 is gonna be tight really close now the thing with the BOEs that first comes to my mind if a lot of people are doing the dungeon grinding the blue BOEs lose their value because there's so many more of them being pumped into the world right through chests or dungeon BOE drops so I'm not sure do you have any idea just how much like raw gold from vendors or just from copper silver you're picking up like let because on launch this is my safe approach on launch when I'm thinking of gold I don't want to have to rely on selling another player something because I don't know if it's gonna buy I don't know if they're gonna buy it I don't know how much they're gonna pay for it I don't know if a certain item is gonna have its value tanked because of you know some meme like I would speculate blue dungeon BOEs not gonna be worth a ton because there's gonna be so many people trying to farm dungeons so I like to use the word like economic proof gold farming methods right because these are vendor or just you're picking up on your own or quest rewards you know you're getting the gold regardless of whether or not another player is buying or interacting with you right that's a very good point but I will say in kind of the same light because you're gonna be dungeon grinding mounts are no longer as you know as not desirable but no longer as necessary that is true you're just gonna be spamming the same dungeon over and over again in your 40s especially in your 40s once you get your mid 40s once you get to BRD you're basically doing BRD for like 8 levels or something like that and by that point you know each level is gonna take you much longer you're not gonna need mounts too often some people are saying ZF so actually Zulfurock believe it or not some people tested this in last dress test ZF might not be the way to go supposedly farming mardon purple crystals is a lot better than spamming ZF so who knows if we'll be doing a lot of that but in general you won't be needing mounts as much if you're dungeon grinding for sure yeah I think that's certainly something to keep in mind is that based on how you're playing the game you have different needs and getting a mount as soon as possible isn't quite as big of a deal whenever you're in dungeons because you're just using your mount I think that I think that it's obviously nice right it's obviously nice and you are going to have situations where you're going to need to run back to town you're gonna need to go train you're gonna need to vendor you're gonna need to repair which is part of the reason why I personally like the idea of having a warlock in my dungeon grinding group if I were to do a warlock in a spell cleave I really like the idea of doing that because I think that having somebody that can basically you summon you mage port you summon sorry you summon mage port do your thing and then port back or accept the summon it's like a whole thing so maybe something that's really really good it's valuable for efficiently reducing downtime between your dungeons like every couple hours or so oh yeah I mean you talked about this earlier with me like if someone in the group if you have a mage and a warlock in your five men dungeon cleave group if someone has to repair or someone has to go train skills or someone has to go do whatever you would say you lose someone you have to bring a new person to your group mage warlock combo bing bong bang you're like it's so fast like that's the selling point of a warlock and a cleave group for me otherwise you know you guys can disagree in chat I'm not sure I think a warlock is sort of just like a worse mage as far as dungeon groups go outside of the summoning thing which does save a lot of time no it does save time well it's also a lot like I mean even like mages at 60 right or sorry warlocks at 60 a lot of people and this is the thing it's not all about meters it's a lot about you know it's there has there's a lot to say about like the utility and other things that you provide as different classes and warlocks I think are certainly like in that boat especially in MC right depending on let's take let's take gar for example right the banishes on gar and depending on what strategy you're doing warlocks are really really valuable for that particularly early on or being able to banish the the elementals on the poles in MC kill one thing at a time or whatever so I think there's certainly something to be said about utility and not just raw damage and meters and all that stuff so if anything I would say the most tantalizing thing about a warlock is just the ability to pull with I've killed rock just pull everything to you that that's just that's convenience in a nutshell at least you know for a warrior like just being able to draw everything LOS everything with the eye and get everything to use is amazing I think so too I see a new question here do you think clicks will form when the push to rank 14 happens vanilla had them will classic have them as well these have definitely happened on private servers let me tell you story the answer is yes absolutely grinding up ranking is very very political like I'll tell you I have I have known guys that you know their rank 12 their rank 13 they've been with the same pre-made all the way up and they mess up and they accidentally let a rogue cap the flag they're defending or they they mess up in some way in their pre-made or the or they upset the pre-made leader in some way and they're kicked out of the pre-made and their rank 12 and a half or their rank 13 and they were trying to go to 14 and you know these are guys that are sleep deprived they've been ranking for two and a half or three months at this point together they're starting to rub on each other's nerves the wrong way and suddenly you find yourself out of the pre-made because you made the up the wrong guy upset and now you're done ranking because you you're no longer in the good pre-made anymore so do it definitely ranking is this very very political thing yeah and I mean you're gonna have bracket leaders and stuff and that's just something to reiterate and we all know this is vanilla wow is a social game and what you do matters right how how you interact with other people you have a reputation you have a name that means something and you know some some names mean mean like they're they're mean more than other names right because somebody either has a really really good reputation or even a really really bad reputation and how much it means could be a really bad thing for them you know so I think everybody kind of gets a chance to write their own story in classic wow and it's a lot of it's it's very much based on who you're talking to who you're interacting with who you're playing with how you act in general like you're you're just kind of the way you carry yourself and it's a lot like real life in that respect so I think absolutely there's gonna be clicks there's gonna be brackets there's gonna be people running different groups now I do think managing brackets in phase two is going to be really difficult because there's no battlegrounds and it's all world pvp but but that's that's like a whole another point right so yeah that's kind of what I think yeah absolutely absolutely it is a very very political competitive thing if you're in a pre-made there are several other people that want your spot and you know if you're premier leader or bracket leader starts liking those people more than you you might find yourself out of the pre-made it's very frustrating it's there are definitely drama and politics involved I mean I'm looking for more questions here I like this one and this is something that would be good for us to talk about but what's the future of class cast after launch and that's something that we've talked about I mean we certainly slowed down on classic cast during the beta because we were all playing so much but there was just so much to learn so much to test so much to play through that it really took up a lot of our time the game is going to be the same way with some respect but because it's not going to be finite like we the game is going to keep the game is going to keep going it's not going to be like it's going to end at some date that we don't know there's going to be a little bit less of a rush so more than likely what's going to happen with with classic cast we would like to do another episode before launch if possible but also on top of that we'll probably take the first two weeks off of classic cast because we'll be managing guilds and doing our own thing and this and that trying to figure everything out but I would expect us to come back with another classic cast probably after two weeks or so maybe like week three or something like that so that's probably what I would expect to do with that's what I would expect with classic cast is to do that and then get back on a more regular schedule after launch so game permitting I know for the first two weeks especially in a hardcore rating guild I'm going to be leading my own hardcore guild we're all playing on the same server fairlina pvp is the server we're all going to be on tips out's horde as fun and our alliance we're going to be very leveling fast getting into molten core farming pre-bis doing all sorts of stuff so once that's taken care of by the end of the two week mark things are going to sort of mellow out a little bit we'll find some time to do a class cast I think that's how it's going to go yeah for sure and those of you who are playing on the same server as us we know there's a lot of people who don't want to play on the same server we know there's a lot of people who do want to play on the same server we've made a fairlina server discord and a fairlina server reddit that the link is in the chat right now exclamation point server that if you guys want to be involved in the community something like that let's go ahead and pull this guy up we need more horde people in the discord it's completely dominated by alliance the reddits dominated by alliance let's get some horde representation guys maybe if you guys would advertise it maybe if you guys would actually advertise it unbelievable you know what it is dude horde players they're just not funny they have no memes they don't know how to have a good time and reddit and the discord these are fun happy places and horde players just don't fit in so here it is this is the fairlina pvp true this is the fairlina pvp subreddit we can go ahead and do this we're at 2.1k members so far which is pretty cool if you're looking for a guild if you are starting your own guild and you're looking to recruit people if you want to make fun of the populations issues with hered for example this is certainly the place to do it and I think this is really going to be a good thing for our community and kind of fostering fostering some pride in our server something that existed back in the day that has kind of died off a lot of times people talk about faction pride but when it comes to server pride this is something else that totally existed as well and that subreddit is where all the memes all the drama who did this who did what that's what this subreddit is for fairlina pvp subreddit right and also we have the discord as well and I think there's something like there's like 6000 people in the discord already too so again exclamation point server and if you guys do want to play on the same server as us like you guys should definitely go join that subreddit you should join that discord server and look for people man make friends we got like a really big mod team because we expect that there's going to be a lot of people posting in the discord and stuff like that and so we want it to be a good place to kind of cultivate a strong community community events, fun stuff a place where people can go and they can make new friends because at the end of the day I think that's how you have the best vanilla experience that you can have is by finding the right people to play with and making the right kind of friends so yeah that is the goal exclamation point server is what it is or exclamation point fairlina one or the other so yeah there's that that is a a little pitch for our server and community I'm scanning for more questions here guys yeah guys go hashtag classicast on twitter you guys can at us at svan tv at tips out baby at say say four lock I see one here from bot vic he says what's your opinion on dual multi boxing classic okay I hate multi boxing with a passion I have no idea how that's allowed in game it should be considered an exploit it should be banned immediately I don't get it it's awful I think it ruins the game it's done so many bad things to retail wow it's going to be just as bad in classic wow I just it's it's disgusting it's disgusting what was it an issue back in the day I don't recall it being an issue I remember the first time multi boxing really became a thing was in was in arenas people would go five boomkin and it was it was very like it was it was not good it was like they could insta give somebody but it wasn't particularly good like I mean people could counter it if they knew what was going on I was I was going to say that's the first time I ever noticed it was five shamans in arena during TBC and the chain lightning right yeah like I'm not I'm not a fan of it I don't like it I think that pretty much most people here a lot of people are going to have a multi box bank all but that's that's different than going around one shotting people you know obviously having one character you're playing one character as a bank all you're logged into around around the clock that's not that big of a deal but like I'm not a fan of it and especially if people are using software to control you know 40 characters or even five characters at once there's there's a difference in my mind between having four characters follow one character versus having software that's like a keystroke replicator to control multiple characters at once I don't like that somehow it's allowed well no I know how it's allowed I know why it's allowed and I know why it's because wizard makes a ton of money from it like that's the obvious answer I wish it wasn't is it going to change I don't think so it's always been allowed but even if you look at like private servers everybody's accounts were free and it wasn't an issue on private servers it's banned because private servers won't let you do it oh okay I didn't even know it was banned yeah so never mind that's probably why you never saw it yeah well there you go it's banned because they're not making money from it yeah yeah it's banned because it's free they can do infinite accounts and all that I didn't even know that so there you go but here's another question is it true that you contend man dungeons like RFC and whatnot this is from winterly on twitter hashtag classic cast okay so there has been some developments lately everything was kind of set to five mans on the classic beta and five man cap on the classic beta and people have found out after the fact they changed the endgame dungeons even after I think it was 1.10 patch where they changed the caps for the endgame dungeons a lot of the early game dungeons didn't change so like for example yeah UBRS was 10 man it was 15 and then it changed to 10 for example or BRS I should say now typically a lot of people didn't really go into dungeons with more than five people because then they couldn't do their quests unless it was a raid quest if it's a specific raid quest in a quest log so I'm assuming they're going to fix it because there's videos of people going in on burning crusade 10 man into like dead mines I saw a video of that and I saw a post on the forums about it and I think I mean I think it's legit I didn't even know because I had never even tried to do it you know this is like a really interesting thing you know optimal dungeon cleave group size what if if you're dungeon cleaving you want six people what if you want four people you know why is the best dungeon cleave number five people I don't know like I'm personally not going to be dungeon cleaving but I wonder if this is something that you know the dungeon cleave mega mine five heads have thought about do we want four people do we want six people I don't know you'd have to look at you have to look at a lot and test it all out so I personally tested some stuff for like raid groups and XP split and what I saw was that when I was in a raid group the XP got split as if you were in a group of however many people actually hit the mobs I didn't test it with healing I did not test it with healing if the healing counts as getting part of the XP split I would assume yes but we just went like we made a bunch of level ones and we had five people in a group then we had six people in a raid and seven people in a raid and what we noticed is if we had two people in the raid hit the mobs level one wolf like if you hit a level one wolf at level one you get 50 XP if you have two people kill it you get 25 XP no group bonus so what happened was we would have six people in a raid and then two people hit it to kill it and we both got 25 XP and nobody else got anything else so I think they do that to like prevent like a little bit of like to prevent like exploitation of how like raid XP and stuff works that's what I'm assuming so I don't know I think that more than likely just doing a five man group is probably going to be better but there might be some kind of crazy situation where you can go in there with six people and it's really not that bad I think five people would have been the sweet spot anyway well the question would be let's say you're in a six man dungeon farming team you'd have to have all six tag or like if the healer gets the tag from healing someone who is tagged what's the XP split like that's the question with six what's the split assuming they all tagged or seven what's the split that's what it would come down to and then is how is you know there's going to be a reduction because you have more people presumably is it worth the XP reduction per person if you have you know such higher increased effective uptime or like that's why you just have to test all this stuff yeah so I think it's going to be really interesting to see that that's something that probably people are going to play with I would assume after launch and just kind of see how it goes but more than likely it's five is probably the sweet spot anyway um yeah do you have anything to add to that tips no I agree okay he agrees the other thing someone brings up is the lockout time yeah I mean so I mean I didn't even really do many dungeons on the beta so I'm assuming it's five lockouts per hour right that's what it should be is that what it is right now because early beta there was no I think early beta there was no early beta there wasn't one and then I think they added five per hour or maybe 10 I'm not sure where they ended up having it be but obviously if you're grinding dungeons you want to play around the cap right so like you want to get as many runs per hour as possible assuming they're good runs so it's five per hour yeah maybe maybe there's some like weird case where like if you're not hitting cap maybe it's more valuable just to bring more people until you're hitting cap and you go in there with six people or seven people I don't know if if they're good runs probably not they're like you really have to find the balance right yeah it'd be it'd be really interesting to see so here's a uh oh just bugged out on me oh yeah here's a question um I'm wondering how the Eye of Kil'Rog this is from Pain at Bronze I'm wondering how the Eye of Kil'Rog works for spell creep groups glup I'm wondering how the Eye of Kil'Rog worked for spell khalib groups in the beta do the mobs aggro you after the eye dies and how the aggro range look like so I'm gonna be honest I mean I don't play a warlock I was under the impression that you would have to pull it with a voidwalker because I thought Eye of Kil'Rog wasn't going to pull all the mobs to you but I could be wrong I'll tell you what happened early in the beta when I was level 30 so this is the first two or three weeks and I was farming stratum or not stratum uh spell at monastery undead so I would and people were scouting for rares what happened was I would occasionally accidentally pull or catch the rat on a monster like you would I'd get too close to monster they would like two or three shot the Eye of Kil'Rog and then they would all run back and try to kill us so if so you could use that to go and pull a bunch of stuff and then it would leash everything back and pull it back to wherever you're standing now I heard that they dropped the HP from Eye of Kil'Rog from you know a higher number to a much lower number if it's one HP or not I don't know but I was told it went from a thousand to one HP but it's it would still work to pull a bunch of mobs if you just don't aggro anything if you just don't get hit until you are at this until you can pull the monster you want and then you aggro intentionally and then you pull everything back right okay like like the HP really of the Eye of Kil'Rog does not functionally matter a lot because it's pretty easy to dodge stuff to get to the point you want and then you ag you aggro everything and then they all run back okay um so so I mean I think more than likely you're probably going to end up using a voidwalker than some people are saying that the eye was was changed during the course of the beta too um so yeah well so if there was a change that made it so if they back the Eye of Kil'Rog and the Eye of Kil'Rog dies they just reset and don't run back and try to kill you the warlock or your group then it's worthless right then then that approach is worthless I don't know if they did that I didn't test at the end of the beta yeah I'm unsure as well but for me I always used voidwalker whenever we had a warlock in our group um so he could sack himself too and the voidwalker survives a little bit longer but um but yeah so uh how it works is essentially you would have your warlock send his pet out and whenever the warlock sends his pet out it puts two people on the threat table it puts the pet and then it puts the warlock and nobody else right uh now if the pet dies it goes to the next person on the threat table and for me as a paladin let's say I'm a prop paladin tank and I'm thinking and stuff like that then what I would do is I would heal the warlock and if I heal the warlock then it puts me on the threat table uh as well like let's say the warlock mana taps even he mana taps or life taps whatever it's called um and he would lose some health I heal him and then I get threat over the warlock and then they all come to me and then I just start my tanking right uh so that's the way that I approach it in a situation where we had a paladin tank um so yeah did you try that at all with with horde on horde side tips no we didn't use we didn't we didn't try warlocks um I just remember seeing people do it a lot in the beginning of beta but uh in the very end I mean I was under the impression that regardless of what the HP of I have killrog was so long as you pull like Stasis at the mob you want and it pulls everything else it should be fine but yeah I don't know I haven't tested it to be on so if if people are and this is my experience this might be what you're thinking of tips if people saw streamers using I have killrog early beta um it's because they were scouting for rares in dungeons like uh scarlet monastery undead and not because they were trying to pull monsters to a we farm they they were only doing rare scouting at that point yeah um so yeah I think I think it'll be I think I think warlocks are gonna be fine and like a spell cleave situation um like Stasis said earlier they're they're just like less damaged mages but I think they add a lot of utility that could be helpful too um this is a good question this is from Lucas he says will the quest lines that were added later down the line in the in original vanilla like searing searing gorge and sylithus be available on launch uh yes and no as far as I know I think the searing gorge quest and stuff are gonna be in from the beginning but the sylithus like scenario circle stuff uh that is going to be added in phase 5 with aq 40 that I'm I'm doing the impression that that is the way they're going to treat it um we actually asked them about it stay safe we actually asked them about it whenever we were at that media summit thing and they were open to kind of like see what they wanted to do with searing gorge but I got the vibe that they were leaning towards uh having everything in there um well people could check right if they hit 45 I leveled 1 to 35 not 40 to 45 the other day um what was there at 45 because the quest would have been there at that point I mean I didn't check at 45 I got I got to 44 I was like testing a whole bunch of stuff uh yeah searing gorge and hinderlands was there at 45 okay I guess it's there yeah those those kind of the impression that I got uh let's take some questions out of uh let's take some questions out of chat as well here before before we wrap up um jamel what is overall wow viewership on twitch going to look like for launch and how long do you think it'll be the top game uh I think there's going to be a couple things right like I think that people are obviously very excited for classic wow for a number of reasons one reason is that if you look at a lot of people a lot of gamers a lot of them kind of got their start in online gaming with wow like whether it was in vanilla or burning crusade or even wrath uh wow was a very like integral part of people's like online gaming uh history careers whatever you want to call it and um whether that's streamers whether that's just anybody in general uh I think it's a game that really made a big impact on a lot of people so I think that it's going to be really really popular uh not not necessarily just on twitch but I think as far as the game right there's a lot of people who who don't watch twitch and play games right there's a lot of people who don't watch youtube and play games a lot of people who they just kind of do their own thing and they're not worried about anything else but uh I think it's going to be popular I think it's going to be a big success for um both from a gameplay perspective and I think on twitch it's going to be pretty popular too because you have so many really really big streamers like a lot of the biggest streamers on the website come from wow um and and you know they have history in wow like whether it's guys like shroud or tim the tatman or lyric um summit of course uh whether it's those kind of guys or people who they they like were wow guys like like soda for example and he's kind of moved on to variety and he's been really big on classic for the last probably three or four years he's he's been pushing for like legacy servers and stuff too pretty publicly um so I think just by the nature of uh the viewership that those guys have added into the section I think that yeah I think it's going to be really really popular on on twitch for for a good while and and of course there's going to be a drop off right anything with this kind of uh height behind it and and that stuff like you have the height beast kids come in and then naturally it'll it'll taper off a little bit but I think people playing the game which is the important thing people playing the game uh are going to fall in love with it and they're really going to enjoy it so that's that's what I that's how I feel yeah I agree I think that there will be a lot of tourist gamers I mean it's super easy to get into classic wow it's right on the battle that launcher all you need is a sub I think there will be a lot of people that come back that haven't played it since vanilla that have never played a private server people that have never played it before ever maybe people that started playing wow later you know in mob or cat or whatever or just people that have never played wow that are here for the hype um you know some who knows probably not the majority of those people probably a minority will stick around and actually enjoy the game but still I think classic wow is going to be very very successful we saw during uh the first couple weeks like consistently for probably three or four weeks classic wow is like a top three game almost around the clock on twitch very very successful on twitch I think it's I think it's a fun game to watch I think it's a fun game to play um really because it's so community oriented and I think I think that once people get invested in you know like as far as twitch goes I think once people get invested in what goes on on the on the streamer server you know the drama of the streamer server or which guild did this or who got that I think people will like it'll be almost sort of like a soap opera like dude it's almost like going on yeah like I agree somebody they might watch jersey shore but they're like I sure as hell don't want to live in that house you know what I mean and there's going to be a lot of people like that where they're like I don't want to play on that server I kind of want to watch the train wreck you know yeah well that's what the beta was like that's exactly how the beta went down every time every time two streamers or three streamers when head to head during the beta views with skyrocket um whenever you know stay safe you would go you know head to head against somebody on the horde side or whenever there was a guru basherina contest or when asin was getting his whirlwind axe everyone's views skyrocketed because people want to see who's going to come out on top who's going to take the win who's going to take the win I think it's going to be really interesting and and this is something that even even for like non streamers right even a situation where like people aren't streaming like people are very invested into the progression of what other people are doing like for example when we were playing on light bringer lesion light bringer stay safe like people were always talking about like oh what's what's progress doing what's demise doing what's praise doing before they merged what's going on with grizzly what's going on with this skill that guilt there was always something happening and people were very like invested almost in a weird way of knowing like who got what items you know well even if they weren't streamers I've heard this like personally from people in chat you know hey stay safe I'm going to put my life where I can't like I'm going to play classic wow but I can't play a ton I have a wife I have kids I have a job but whatever whatever whatever you know but I want to follow your journey I want to follow you know S1's journey tips out's journey and sort of like be taken along for the ride because I can't play that much I can't play at that level I can't invest so much time but I want to follow you through it I think there's going to be a lot of that I think it's be fun so yeah I think I think it's going to be really fun I think I think there's going to be a lot of long-term investment like I think that I think that the thought that like oh classic will die after like a month or two is kind of absurd right like I think that if you have one layer one layer is about the size of an original vanilla wow server which is like 2,500 to 3,000 people right somewhere in there and if your server has one layer worth of people let's say you're in phase two they get rid of layering that is totally fine I do think they're going to increase the server cap over what the original server cap was we don't we don't know they haven't really talked about that yet but I would I would assume that they're going to do that but with that being said I think that the game is certainly not going to die I mean there's so few servers there's so many people with pre-name registrations alone and I I bet half the people who are going to play classic have not registered their names I mean I think if you told me if you told me a third of the people who are going to play classic have registered their names I would be shocked that that number would be very high to me that's what I think and I still think they should probably open more servers up not even I'd say even like less than a tenth less than a tenth of the people that will play classic have reserved their names less than a fiftieth because you got to consider how many people have like how many people just they're going about their day they don't even tune into which they just know that classic is out very very few people reserved their names I guarantee that relative to the overall population well you're right and I know you're right because every day after the name reservation day however many days ago that was we've seen you know all these servers go from low to medium to high to full like we've seen all of these metrics increase as people like oh I can reserve a name I'll reserve a name right so they're just filling up wasn't there a blue post that said a medium population server is kind of like the break point for okay this is higher than like a typical server pot from back in the day I believe I saw a blue post about that correct me if I'm wrong they said a medium population server today is bigger far bigger a full population server back in vanilla so the fullest servers like Illidan and Blackrock and those servers a full population or a medium population server today is bigger than yeah so so I'm really curious to see how they're going to approach this situation I would be on the lookout for more servers to open up particularly on EU I mean I thought I thought for sure they should have at least I mean if they started with two they should have four at least English PVP servers and I think they should probably end up adding another English PVP or NA PVP server as well yeah I'd be really surprised if they didn't so and you know that was probably a big reason why they even did the pre-name registration was for them to get a gauge on how many people are probably going to play the game on launch I think that number is going to go way up from what the pre-registration is but I do think it helps them out a lot like as far as their data and research and kind of seeing what to expect they definitely do not want to make too many servers and do server merges that's a huge issue that's a huge can of worms we saw it with Zethkor whenever we were playing on Lights Hope or it was Elysium at the time we saw it with Zethkor they opened up Zethkor because there was too many people on early Elysium and then Zethkor happened Zethkor had a decent population it dropped the Elysium population a little bit but then after a few months I don't know how many months in it was maybe like I don't remember how long in it was but after a certain amount of time Zethkor ended up dying they ended up merging Zethkor back into the original server what ends up happening is those guilds those communities, those people people have to get new names it completely shatters the community of the server that they had before so you would see the same thing with server merges in retail and a lot of people will just think oh merge no big deal but I think a merge for a game that's so community driven and so based around the social aspects of MMOs I think that a server merge can be really really devastating to an existing community and I would say anybody who played on Zethkor probably would agree with that or at least have some good insight on that too I got a follow up question to that what do you guys think where do you think WoW was bigger biggest EU, NA or let's say China, Eastern Asia where do you think WoW was the most popular out of those three probably EU I would say EU I would say EU but that's also private servers were based in Europe so there was more Europeans playing on private servers in general let's say an equal portion of the population regions are just in Classic WoW there's two times as many people in Europe there's just going to be more people that are interested in it right yeah just in general you're right I don't know the maths but I mean yeah you're probably right but do we do it based on people or based on weight because you know NA NA gamers are worth four EU gamers now do you think we could take that weight and distribute it equally and then move to China we could all serve a transfer to Chinese servers distribute the weight equally I think it would work I don't know we'll see there's a whole lot of stuff that we can take a look at and see how this pans out but yeah I think it'll be really good let's take a couple more questions here and see if there's anything on Twitter any questions from chat um how do you think the increased population is going to affect server economy this is a good question Harley so I think a lot of people keep talking about this but if it essentially works in a lot of the same ways that dynamic respawns went in private servers except it's just happening in chunks right so they have a layer this is a layer of Azeroth 3000 people ish and then you take that and there's nodes there's this, there's that for those 3000 people then you have another layer for another 3000 people so it just happens in blocks I don't think it's going to be a big issue economically as much as some people have made it out to be because everything is going to scale the more players there are, the more layers there are the more nodes there are, the more resources there are and then it's just supply and demand at that point right here's the thing, I'll tell you this the auction house is shared the auction house is shared between layers there's going to be the top 0.01% of players that level very very fast these are your top players in the top guilds they get to 60 before everyone else these people are going to be hopping between layers manipulating layers farming black lotus farming devil sword these people are going to farm so many resources within 7 days or 2 weeks that they have these high level zones for themselves essentially these people will be able to farm so much gold that they'll never have to farm gold ever again for the next 2 years and on top of that very likely would be able to fuck up certain aspects of the economy as well permanently for 2 years with devil sword or black lotus or complete market control that's my concern I think that's the biggest problem with layering is the economic implications that happen in the first 7 days to 2 weeks I agree I think with devil sword specifically though when you think about it let's say there's 10 layers on our server that means there's what 60, 70 devil sword how do you control 10 layers how do you control not just control 10 layers you have to control them 24 hours a day because the second any spawn slip through you can no longer corner the market if anything I think devil sword is going to be way cheaper in classical art I think devil sword is going to be cheaper just because it's going to be harder to manage everything here's the problem if you farm enough devil sword in the first week when there's zero contest you've made enough gold to buy out let's say you lose control you have half control for the subsequent month you only have 12 hour control across all the layers it's hard to coordinate you can't keep total economic lockdown on the crater whatever other resource you're trying to farm you can buy out low priced leather and repost it that's how you achieve economic control you just flip it yeah I think if you go in you farm everything up early on it's going to be more valuable earlier too the longer it goes on the more chance more people have to get involved when it comes to having so many spawns and so many people it's going to be harder to corner that market but that being said because there's so many more people playing the demand is going to be a lot higher so let's say you have a BOE blue or epic or whatever that drops to you might see there's a twig of the world tree you maybe would have seen one or two twig of the world tree on the auction house at a time back in the day at most or whatever and then in the same respect you might end up seeing 8, 9, 10 of them now but there's so many more people playing that the demand kind of stays the same that's the way that I see it but let's say there was a group of 10 people and they were dedicated to setting up a twig of the world tree mafia they would on their own farm twig of the world trees and also buy up every single twig of the world tree they saw on the auction house and relist it at their price that's the problem that's typical like auction house that's people gaming the auction house like has always happened and if you aren't able to actually buy everything out then you're eventually going to get undercut by someone that's kind of snowball you literally have to have control of every single piece of devil's sword for example because I've tried to do that too but I've tried to do that with not enough gold to create a monopoly and then I just end up wasting a bunch of gold on stuff and I end up having to undercut the people who undercut me and then I lost a bunch of gold so the idea is that devil's sword is a much smaller there's only one place to get it there might be 7 or 8 or 9 layers if you can coordinate and lock that down for a couple days seriously you can control for weeks afterwards it might end up working that way in just snowballs you might be right about that I just think it's going to be so hard to get around the clock and not having anybody being able to contest them especially since it's not international servers like there were before on private servers it's a different thing so yeah also how do you know you're on all the layers that's another good point because you never know how many layers there are active at a time there might be another layer that you don't know about and what a lot of people don't know is that layers aren't just generated on a population basis it's not like 2000 people generating next layer 4000 people generating next layer that's part of the equation but the layering technology has understood it you can also spin up new layers new layers will also spin up they haven't been disclosed by Blizzard and I think it has to do with bugs like something on a server crashes internally or something like that it can spin up a new layer which is why a lot of people found themselves layer hopping without choice during even the late stages of the beta there's some weird layering Illuminati going on behind the scenes so there might be 20 layers there might be 30 layers who knows if we're talking like a 20,000 pop server at launch you might have 30 layers we don't know I think it's going to be really interesting and there's going to be a whole lot of unknowns let's do this let's take one last question before we call it a day guys also, if you haven't already please please please follow StaySafeTV, follow TipsOutBaby follow our friend Joanna who joined us early on unfortunately a tornado came through his area and it cut out his power and everything so everything's fine with him we got an update from him but that's why Joanna couldn't join us for the rest of the show so make sure to go follow Joanna as well absolutely, he got put in a different layer so that's another thing we were talking about the concerns about him on release, if his internet and stuff isn't sorted out then his power and all that stuff because who knows how much damage the tornado did his house is fine but in general in the area so yeah do we know if the layers have their own auction house or all the auction house is linked? layering only affects the people that you see in the world around you but as far as auction house as far as chat as far as all this other stuff it is wide open everybody else is playing on the same server layering is essentially like a dynamic they're like dynamic server clusters that are constantly merging and unmerging but the difference is that all the names are linked all the auction houses are linked but there's one auction house all the names are the same chat channels are all linked together it's all one big chat channel so from that respect you're not really fracturing the economy or taking people out of the game in that regard it's only just basically to handle lag what's going on in the world directly around you kind of you read general chat as layered have you guys heard the general chat as layered? I heard that it was not I don't think so I was under the impression that everything was that everything was together wait if general chat is layered then how are you going to get invited to the asmen layer if you're spamming a general chat to get invited to the asmen layer who's going to invite you oh no dude I was under the impression that the chats are not layered unless they changed it I'm so happy I'm not a lion's dude I'm so happy are cities exempt from layering and this is something else let's talk about this real quick before I finish do you I kind of wish that cities were on their own layer because I don't think it works this way but cities were on their own layer and if you are in that city you are in that city and you see everybody else who's in town like whether it's stormwind, iron forge, ogre mar under city, whatever it is you see everybody in town but the issue is is let's say you have a raid coming into your city your entire raid goes into that city's layer I'll get a city raid situation and then you don't see them and then all of a sudden you see the tunnel, iron forge you got the statues, all this stuff and then you're just sitting out here minding your own business you would be watching some people duel and stuff outside then all of a sudden you see about like 200 tauren rushing in at you and here's the thing, I think that is such a city raids don't happen every day but you are in the capital cities every day from my perspective if I had to choose between the two I would rather have the cities be on their own layer in town, you're in town and you can see everybody that's how I feel here's the big thing I don't even think with the way layering works right now they can do that because I remember we asked them hey what if you only layered the 1 to 20 zones or the 1 to 30 zones then everything above 30 or everything above 20 was not layered and it was free for all you could see everyone and they were like no with the way layering works it has to be all or nothing it's the entire continent or it's not the entire continent so I don't even think they can take an area or a zone or a city or whatever and just pick it out of the layer thing and make its own deal I don't even think they can do that I don't know I don't know if that's something that they can't do at all or if that's just not how it works right now though that's what I'm saying I'm saying in an ideal situation and not everything is ideal that's just what I would hope that they could do is that they could have the cities on their own layers so that everybody is in town at the same time I think it would be cool but then of course you have like you said the city raid thing but I think if you wear the pros and cons I mean who knows right who knows how it would actually be approached what do you think this I think at the end of the day when it comes to layering I think it's such a hard question to answer because we don't know how layering works 100% I think at the end of the day like what Stay Safe said certain zones can be layered I don't know I don't have enough information to give a clear answer to be honest so I mean like this is my understanding of it if you have certain zones that are layered you just have shards again because the way sharding works in retail and how it has worked for several expansions you might have an elwyn forest shard and a duskwood shard and a red ridge mountain shard that might reappear or up here as you hop between the zones and if there's too many people in one zone in elwyn forest for example you might have a gold shire shard you might have a fargo deep mine shard and you might have a hogger area shard and as you travel between those smaller zones inside of elwyn forest you're seeing things reappear and disappear so the second you start having like like a zone wide layer or a town wide layer whatever you want to call it you're just back to sharding kind of yeah yeah it just it's really annoying and I think at this point whatever we saw in the beta is probably what it's going to be so I just hope it turns out for the best and it doesn't really take away from the game so yeah the overall the net result of the equation of everything else that's put into this thing is overall positive so that's what the goal would be I guess that's what the hope would be well I mean like with this recent blue post yesterday or two days ago whatever it was they once again they said hey it's something we're only doing the first couple weeks to deal with launch it's only launch it's for launch dates to help with launch etc so they said that multiple times and also they said we're getting rid of layering before phase two to say that again so they haven't backed down on that they reaffirmed it at least the message they're putting out is that they want to get rid of ASAP that's my impression will that actually happen will they get rid of ASAP I don't know but they've said it multiple times I guess we just sort of have to take their word for it and cross their fingers and hope it it's gone soon and we will start to find out how all this stuff is going to roll here in just under eight days by the time this is posted on YouTube about seven days so it's going to be really really exciting to see you guys thank you so much for joining us for Classic Cast Joanna was with us for a little bit unfortunately he couldn't stay, we would love to have Joanna on another time and get the chance to talk with him some more he's a really really great guy make sure you guys go follow Joanna also make sure to follow StaySafeTV TipsOutBaby check out their YouTube channels as well this is going to be posted on YouTube just like all the Classic Cast and everything else going on on YouTube also for myself, for my own front I'm looking at having somebody else manage my YouTube channel here for Classic Launch so that I can get more YouTube content and stuff out to you guys and trying to get all that stuff sorted out so those of you guys watching on YouTube you guys have something to look forward to a lot more consistent content from me hopefully if everything works out come Classic Launch so that's YouTube.com YouTube TipsOutBaby and YouTube StaySafeTV so anyways guys thank you so much for joining us continue the stream I will be playing Dauntless today and we will see you guys next time yeah thanks chat take it easy boys see you either on Classic Cast before launch or we'll see you in game 7 days let's go!