 and welcome to tomorrow. My name is Jamie Higginbotham. We've got a plethora of people joining us today as per usual. We have got Jared Hadd. We've also got Ryan Keaton sitting up there on the other side over there. But also we are joined by Liam Kennedy who did join us a couple of weeks ago. But we did wanna talk about a really cool and interesting project that you've been working on for quite some time. And that's 4K views, live views from space. So rather than me describe it, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're doing? Sure, thank you so much for having me on the show today. It's a really special day for me, so I really appreciate it. Yeah, so what we've done, so I am now, I officially have decided that my title is the coolest title in the world. My title now is Space TV Director. And that's for a company called Sen. If you go to sen.com, you'll find out a little bit more about us from that. But what I've got behind me here are some examples of the 4K video that we have from our first satellite that we're operating called ETV A1, Earth TV. And that's what is creating these views. You'll see that we've got some example of augmented reality overlays. And this particular satellite is in a sun synchronous polar orbit. And we have the ability to capture stuff all around the world from pole to pole. And the cool thing about this one is that we have several different camera resolutions. This one is a 250 meter resolution, but we can also go down to 10 meters. And I'll show some examples of that throughout the show. In fact, I know I've got something here that might be of interest to some of the folks here. So I'm gonna share my screen if I can figure out how to share the entire second screen. I'll have this. How's that looking on your side? Is that coming through okay? So what I've got here is basically a tracking shot from our satellite over. Starbase, now 10 meter resolution is not two meter resolution, but nevertheless, you get some idea of the resolution that we've got going on here. So obviously, Jamie- Before you continue, let's get context. So you're like, oh, this is over Starbase, but it took me a second to realize what we're looking at, right? So there's that little, if you can pause it for a moment, there's that little dot, that white dot. If you move your mouse to the left, I think that white dot is production, right? And then if you go further towards the coastline, I think, yeah, right up over somewhere over there, if I got that right, the launch pad somewhere over there, right? Did I get that right, Ryan? Does that seem about right? Yeah, that does look about right. This is gonna look really strange if you cut back to my view right now. Okay, I'm going to do that just because it does look strange, I think it's hilarious. That doesn't look about right. Sorry. It doesn't look rather spacey with all of those swirly bits on the ground over there. But that's the kind of thing that does impact anyone who's viewing this for the first time. Earth viewing is a bit of an art, especially when you're zoomed in like that, because it's not the way that you normally look at things. And firstly, it's never north is up. So that sort of switches me back onto the other side of this. So where did this all come from? How on earth does Sen have this platform up here doing this right now? And you brought in live from space. Now, those particular views that I was just showing you there are not coming through live all the time. And that's because it was our first full on dedicated satellite, just to Sen. And we're working on the ground infrastructure that would allow us to do live stream from that satellite and future ones that we're gonna be launching over the next few years. We have done a few live down links, but they've mostly been down over a ground station that's in the Azores over in Europe. But these ones, like this is an awesome one behind me. If I just, that should be known to folks who may be based in England. You can't get this view from the space station, which I'll talk about in a minute, but this was a shot across, Ryan, you might be thinking what that was never happening that the England was that clear. I agree with you, it's not a spectacularly unusual. And there's some very nice sun glint down at the bottom center of the frame there too. So, yeah, a lot of my family exist in that view. I of course live in Southern California now, in case anyone wanted to know, but that's where I was originally from. But yeah. Can you see Ryan's house in that shot? Can anyone take it out? I can see my house, it's right there. It's right there. It's right, right, right, it's right there. Anyway, it's sort of like right, right, it's right where you are right now. Oh, look how convenient that is. Overlaid it right on the map. That's right. So you've got a satellite that's up there right now that is taking imagery, but it is not live all the time, right, so you've got, is that storing forward then? Right, it stores a bunch of stuff going forward to the ground station? You've got it, so our partner for this is a company called NanoAvionics. They're based in Lithuania, I think. I hope I got that right. Anyhow, NanoAvionics, they built the spacecraft side of the thing. What Sen did, who were based in London, UK, we built the camera side of that hardware. So everything to do with the camera, we're not manufacturers of the chip or the lenses, but we contracted with folks to do that side of things. But everything that makes this happen is us. So we have onboard storage, we have onboard encoding, FPGAs, all of that stuff, and we also, like every spacecraft operator should have, you have a bench version of this that is in our offices in London, and that's where we do all of the testing, programming, and then we can uplink any changes that need to happen. And we've done that since this launch. So just winding back a little bit, we launched this satellite on January the 13th, 2022. So it's been up there for a good two years already. So, Commander Control, we create the commanding, the commands, they then go over to NanoAvionics and then they uplink them. But essentially, we've got that sort of workflow. And then, how do we downlink it? We've got, we work with Leaf, KSAT for downlinking in various parts of the Earth. One of the places, critical places that we don't yet have downlink capability for this satellite is across the USA. So when we capture anything across the USA, we have to wait for it to go over one of the ground stations elsewhere in the world. But we are looking to capture some amazing things of the upcoming eclipse because we figured out our, you know, looked at the orbiting sequencing and we have a very good option to capture the shadow of the moon in our 250 meter when it's just approaching the coastline of Mexico. So it'll be off. So it should make it really easy to see. So anyhow, hopefully you'll see us sharing that. So that brings up a good point. You mentioned different ground stations. And what people don't seem to realize is ground stations are expensive. They're very, very expensive. This dude didn't know. I didn't know. So Kevin M asked a great question, which is, where's the funding coming from? Is it donations? Yeah, yeah. Not a lot of people realize that there was a tweet not that long ago from someone who launched a payload on a Falcon 9 and they were like, we thought the launch would be the expensive part. We spent more in one year on ground stations and we did the entire launch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a business ripe for disruption as ground stations. So how do you pay for this? Really, really good. Yeah, absolutely. The most critical thing for anything is how are you going to pay for this and how are you going to continue to pay for it? So, yeah, I had no idea that in order to downlink across the USA, you have to pay a reasonable amount per year for each satellite that you're going to be doing that with. Anyhow, where we got the money from is it sort of goes a little bit back to the founding of Sen. So the CEO of Sen is a guy by the name of Charles Black. Ryan, you may have seen him on BBC 10 o'clock news over the last couple of weeks, ITV and other places because that's really jumping ahead to where we are now, which is we launched a camera system up to the space station. So the BBC have been working with us, several of their science journalists have been tasking us to capture certain things so that they put into news packages. So they sort of have been using that content so they were very interested in the story that I'll get to in a little bit. Where does the money come from? Get back to that. So early on Charles created this because he had a vision for bringing these views to the public for free. That's the key thing. Now, I've been on my own mission independently before I'd even heard of Sen to make sure that that was something that was going to be possible through my work with ISS above which repurposed NASA live views from the space station. So we've both been sort of in this space but definitely for many years Charles was working on this vision and he is a guy that persuaded people to put funding into Sen quite some years ago. So although we seem like we're a startup in many ways we are still a startup in respect of this. We've been around for a little while because we were the first and this is what had me discover that Sen was out there in May of 2019, they conducted the very first live 4K Earth viewing stream from a satellite. So this is before, as far as I know, no one else had done this before. NASA had just done in 2017 a live 4K downlink. That was an interview with astronauts Peggy Whitson and Jack Fisher but that was internal to the biggest satellite of them all called the International Space Station but I've been looking for this and went out to find them and I discovered that they have been, where we're funded from is a bunch of individuals and space venture capitalists. So it's no, this isn't hidden, if you go to about.sen.com and you look at our leadership there's a bunch of information that shows you who has been funding us and that includes some folks that will be known to the folks who follow this stuff. Space Fund was an initial very early investor. Space Fund has people on it like Megan Crawford, Rick Tumlinson, Rick is a very vocal out there in the new space arena. His very vocal is an understatement Liam. Yeah, just a little bit. There you go, I thought you would get the minimal, I was minimizing. Let me be clear, in the best possible way, he is one of the best advocates for humanity getting into space that I have ever seen and you are listing off, it's almost like there's this secret society of like space advocates and people who just, you know, really, it's like there's this underground movement of people who just make change inside of aerospace and you're just, you're listing them off, you're listing them off, yeah. Yeah, and not to finish. Now every one of our investors is very special, so not all of them are, you know, publicly out there on our website and another one that is Dylan Taylor and Dylan is the CEO of Voyager Space and many of us have worked with Dylan through his non-profit, that's really where most of my connection with Dylan has been because he founded Space for Humanity and whenever it was, he went up on one of the early Blue Origin, no, Virgin Galactic, was it Virgin Galactic? I'm sort of really going, no, it was Blue Origin. So, you know, Dylan's been a very, very close supporter of Sen, advisor to what we're doing and very critical to our future success. Voyager Space happens to be the major, I think the major funder for nanoracks. So, a nanoracks has a history of work on the International Space Station. That's how I first got to know them and but they are now obviously one of the commercial entities that are building new commercial Leo space stations. Speaking of the International Space Station, how's that for a segue? There we go, finally. Let's get there. Tell me what you just sent up. What's going on? So, you've got these satellites that are storm forward that you've been doing. They're doing these beautiful views, sending stuff down to space. You'll get something beautiful from the eclipse, it sounds like. But what did you just send up? Yeah, so, do you mind if I just segue a little bit into why the heck I went searching for someone like Sen. And it really resides a little bit down to my ISS above Gizmo, which is Rosary Pie thing that lights up. We have used the ISS above on the show many times. We had it in our studio back when we had Station 204 in Anaheim. It was the default display in the green room when we weren't up on the air. It was a cool little device. I'm a huge advocate for the why. Everyone gets into the how, and everyone forgets the why. Why do we do these things? So, yes, I absolutely take it away. So, I'm going to launch this little video, which is showing. So, from the International Space Station, what we've got up there are a bunch of cameras that NASA can feed through to two live streams. What I'm showing you here is one that's from there. It used to be from a camera system called HDev. That died in 2019. That was when I first reached out to Sen. But NASA replaced it with one of their, they're called EHDC, Enhanced High Definition Camera, which is really a very highly specialized Nikon D4 inside of a really specialized housing. And after HDev died, which had really great capabilities, it had three different views, forward Nadir and aft facing cameras. After that died, NASA repurposed this one. And what you're seeing here, that's Lake Tahoe, by the way, there. They basically installed a camera on the space station just off the near the starboard Sarge, the solar alpha rotary joint. I think that's what that is. And what you're seeing in the top right corner is a little bit of an obstruction because where they placed it was the only place it could go. And it's, you know, we can put up with that with that blockage there. But this is limited to 720p. And that's the stream. NASA streams this live down to the ground, and then it comes out, it used to come out to you stream, now it goes to YouTube. And this is what the public has had access to pretty much 24-7 since 2020 when they finally switched this camera feed on. And, you know, it's been a stalwart. You know, a lot of stuff is really visible. But I've always been the fly in the air on behalf of all you, all y'alls, everyone in the whole world. I've been, luckily, folks at NASA who have control over this stuff, they, you know, sort of maybe tolerated my connections but my friendly request to have things improved in quality. I was presenting at the ISS R&D conference three times on ideas I had to get this upgraded, because it was clear that this was not always going to be a done deal. NASA at any time could choose, we're not going to do this anymore. In fact, there were times when the previous experiment, it was called an experiment, was going to get discarded because another experiment was going to go there. And I gave myself the mission to make sure that for the benefit of the public, because I absolutely have, in my mind, proof that these views make a difference to people's lives. It has them get in action about climate change. It provides a way of experiencing themselves that is unmatched, I think, in terms of anything earth-viewing-wise. So that's what NASA was providing. Very grateful for everything that NASA has done to make that available. But I'll just show you what happened. It was really last week that I am so glad that there is something else. I'm going to launch another video that is the view that we now have. Well, you mentioned an obstruction before. I hate to tell you, Liam. I think there might be something right there. A little thing. I can't explain this one away now to anyone who wants to see these views. Now, first and foremost, the ISS is a platform where its primary purpose is, one of its main primary purposes is research and human spaceflight. So that takes the most important thing. So it's going over Florida, by the way. And in just a second, when it moves past that little obstruction, you will actually see Kennedy Space Center and Kate Canaveral. These clarity is incredible, Liam. This looks great. It does, doesn't it? Ignore the obstruction. This is 720p. So this is not any better. So there's Kate Canaveral. Do you have better lensing on this? You definitely zoomed in a little bit more than that previous shot. Yes. So what I'm saying, this is NASA. And it's the same zooming as that previous shot. I didn't tell you it was over at Northern California. So this one is what is currently available from the same NASA feed that we've all been relying upon. And this is hundreds of thousands of views, millions of views every month, and ISS above that are in science centers. This is now what is being displayed to science centers. So you were saying you can do better than this? Oh my God, yes, yes, yes. So just to explain what we're seeing here now is on the same launch that our new camera payload went up to the space station on in the trunk was a spare pump module for the cooling system for the space station. And a few days ago, the Canada arm went into the trunk, pulled this out, and I was capturing it. I thought it was the coolest thing to see. That's what I think is cool when you see the robo team taking such delicate control over something that is heavy and large. And they took it out of the trunk and then I was thinking, where is it going? Where is it going? And I was thinking it's heading towards where the camera system is that NASA currently has. And sure enough, its permanent position for now is exactly right underneath this camera. And it's not going anywhere until it's needed. So it is a spare. So it's just put here. So when I was thinking, well, that does suck for anyone who is inspired by these views. But hey, that's what we've got. And I was thinking, well, it's just as well. Just as well. I've been working for two years to have a whole new camera system available to do this. And it's on the frickin' space station right now. Sorry, did I say frickin' space station? Anyway, it's on the... But that's one of the things, right? Like we've talked about a lot of these things or we've talked about a lot of... What am I trying to say? We talked with a lot of people on the show before and they have these grand ideas, but executing is hard. Executing is expensive. Getting your stuff into space is not like, oh, I'm just going to send this to space. We're not talking to you with like, oh, here's my dream. You sent it up on CRS30. It's in space, dude. And let me show you what it looks like. Do you want to see what the payload actually looks like? Absolutely. I'll sort of run through. So I'm actually going to do a little presentation, which I don't normally do, but here we go. And everyone says this. We're at slideshow. There's probably a key that does this, but I'm just going to do that. All right, there you go. So you should be seeing that. I'm going to jump over this thing, really, this is about the Space TV-1 mission. So it's going up to the space station. It's on the space station right now. It's still, as far as we know, inside the pressurized side of SpaceX 30. You know, there's many places on the space station where you can put an Earth viewing system. I've got to say, I've been the one that said this is where it needs to go. So it's being hosted on this platform called Bartolomeo. And it's called Argus. So did everyone know? Not everyone would know that, yes, Airbus has been working on the International Space Station for many, many years and in other areas as well. So when you launch something to the space station, you go through an implementation partner. So certainly for commercial entities like us. You don't go direct to NASA. You basically go through an implementation partner, which, and they work, actually not even with NASA directly either. They work with the ISS National Lab. So our up mass and astronaut time, a small amount of astronaut time that we need to get our payload ready for deployment, all that's run through the ISS National Lab. So the payload we've got is a 4K system. As you know, it has three camera views. So we're somewhat getting back to how HW used to do things. So we have a Nadia view straight down, a horizon view that's forward facing for the motion of the space station. And we have a docking port view. So let me just quickly go over to the sort of, you know, a view of what these views will look like and to give you some idea of the spatial resolution as well. So firstly, the Nadia view, that gives you some example of the view and we're in the units of metric units there, 246 kilometers wide by 180 kilometers deep. And that represents around 60 meters per pixel resolution of that camera. The top right is showing the horizon view and unobstructed where we've placed ourselves on the Bartolomeo platform. And I'll do a little quick demo of what that platform looks like in just a second. But we have clear unobstructed views. So we'll get sunrises, night views. We expect to be able to see aurora, other sort of phenomena, you know, very clearly. And I've got some examples I can show you of just how good our night capture will be. Which I think I'm just so excited that we can improve on the current very highly pixel, not pixelated, chip damage that is, or hot pixels that you see on the current live feed. Now, our third camera view is a little bit unusual. Now, ideally, we would have had the ability to see the aft view, to see sunsets and such like and the other side of the space station. But our platform that we're on doesn't give us access to that view. And well, you know, the way that we've done this, you know, our camera system is, you know, not, you know, mega millions to build. So we just added a couple of cameras. So I should have mentioned, although there's three views, we have six cameras because for redundancy, we have two up of each camera. And the final viewpoint is that one that's pointing at the forward PMA2 Harmony docking ports. So we will be able to capture, for the very first time, 4K views of the approach and docking and undocking events of anything to that port. So that includes obviously SpaceX, Dragon for any of the missions that are going to that forward port. Also upcoming Boeing CFT will be great to see here. And the Sierra Space Dream Chaser as well. So all of that will be nicely, nicely visible. And let me just go, all right. So I wanted to show you sort of what the payload looks like. Our payload is just the thing that's on the right side, the right bottom side of that. And you can see four of the cameras. You can see the two that are pointed towards the forward docking. So yeah, let me also, this is the wrong orientation for up-down side of things. If you imagine, what we're attached to is this plate called Argus. And it is just a very special metal plate, but that's very important to us because it handles heat dissipation. And this is the unit that has, we're connected into this for power and data. So we have a one gig ethernet connection. So it's wired. We're not going via Wi-Fi. That's provided by the Bartolomeo platform. And the two cameras that are on the left side of our payload, you'll see they're slightly different angles. And that's because we expect at some point to be moved. This platform, one of the flexible things about it is that Airbus can accept, you know, new customer payloads. The payloads on this plate are installed inside the space station. So what is going to be happening in some weeks from now is that our payload will be taken out of the pressurized cargo hold of CRS-30. And the astronauts then will go through a procedure to take off the lens caps. We'll be watching when they do that. And then they'll attach it to this plate along with three other payloads. So this is a small payload plate, essentially. It allows Bartolomeo to accept our kinds of missions. So there's two other customer payloads. And then there's one, which is the flight avionics for our Argus that we plug into. That's all done by astronauts. And then they'll slide it out of the gem airlock. And then the Canada arm will take it and then install it into the front of the space station. And I know I'm doing a lot of talking and not giving, not taking note of any questions and things. But let me just very quickly. So this is a cool tool that I've got access to here. This is called NASA Doug. It is the software that NASA uses to plan EVAs. But it's a very high resolution and high fidelity view of everything on the space station. I think this is mostly configured to how things are right now. So I'm just going to be zooming in a little bit. So we're approaching the front of the space station. Center bottom there is, that is where crew eight is currently. Center top, that is where SpaceX 30 currently is. And on the left front side there is the Columbus module. And the Columbus module is where we are being placed. So this thing right here is Bartolomeo. It's a very specialized plate that allows a bunch of different experiments to be installed here. And we're going right on this edge. I guess it's the port side of Bartolomeo. So if I just position ourselves right here, where that gives us a view of, and I'm just going to sort of is this. So that's the docking port view approximately. And then this is our forward facing view. And this is, yeah, there you go. And then obviously there's, just to go a little bit out of the way there, and then we'll have the clear unobstructed view of the ground below us as we're moving. So that's where we're going. The other thing, while I'm here, let me scoot over to where the current camera is. So that is mostly featured in the live feed from NASA. So let me just go over here and zoom in. Yeah, so there's the very infamous, is it Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer thing? So I'm just zooming in down here. So right here by the starboard SAGE, he says, where are you camera? Oh, there it is. Okay. So right down here is the current EHDC6 camera. So this is where NASA's current live feed is coming from. And I'll just go over here a little bit, maybe. So you can see it. So you can see it sort of pointed down. And where that big obstruction it now is, is it's being put right in between these two storage spaces. Anyhow, that's sort of where things are right now. And hopefully I've given you a context of where things are going. So, yeah, let me share a little bit more about what's going to be happening with, I'll put it back out here actually. Back to where our camera is. Oh, by the way, if everyone remembers HDev, that was right center screen here. It was on the starboard, upper starboard side of Columbus module. That's where the HDev system was. And you can see being out on the edge like that, that's what allowed it to have aft views as well as forward in the day of views. Whereas we are, you know, we're sort of on the edge of Bartolomeo right here. Anyway. So what are your next steps here, right? Because you're not actually on, you're not attached to station yet, right? You're still in the pressurized section of Dragon. So they need to get you attached to station. James asks, how does the arm secure that in place? Is it, forgive me, maybe you said this, but is it Canada arm that secures you or is it an EVA that secures you? It's Canada arm. Yeah, thank goodness it's not an EVA because that would take even more astronaut resources to do it. So, yeah, what happened is, so you saw, I had the diagram of the Argus plate. That was launched on NG 20. Little bit of, you know, it takes a lot to launch to the space station and you have to get your slot on a resupply vehicle. And as you've heard me say, we're on a sub-platform of Bartolomeo. Bartolomeo was installed several years ago, had a few teething troubles when it first went up. But the Argus plate was the one that we were going to be attached to that goes to that. So it has the correct, you know, gizmos on it, widgets that allow Canada arm to independently just slot it in and lock it in place. But it was, this platform was always designed to be something that allowed Airbus and their customers, of which we are one, to go on to Argus and go out to Bartolomeo. But it also allows us to replace it. So whenever there's a new payload that is going to be on Argus, they can take it back in inside the station and remove stuff and put new stuff on. So that's really how things are going. Does everyone remember what happened to NG-19? NG-19 was the Northrop Grumman Cygnus resupply vehicle earlier in 2023 that had a problem with its solar panel. Only half of it got deployed. I didn't know this because it made it to space. It docked to the space station. The experiments got delivered. But I missed the memo that said that actually spoiled a bunch of experiments because they didn't have power to... I think it was cooling for them. So there were a bunch of experiments that were essentially spoiled. And what that resulted in is that everything that was scheduled to go up in future launches had to be rescheduled. I happened to find this out because randomly... I know a lot of people are Boeing through various mechanisms. Boeing is the prime contractor with the space station. And one of them happened to be the payload readiness manager, which means they are responsible for making sure that every payload that is targeted for launch on a resupply vehicle is ready to go. And they were tasked with dealing with the aftermath of NG-19. And that meant we were supposed to go in December, but NG-20 was pulled forward, I think, from when it was originally scheduled to accommodate the reflying of some of those experiments. And that kicked us off. So what they launched on NG-20 was the plate. So that's been in Cygnus, which is currently still docked to the space station. And big things like that plate, there's not a lot of space on the space station for it. So it's been hanging out inside Cygnus, waiting for SpaceX 30, CRS 30 to launch. And that has our payload on it. So what will then happen is another random thing through all my ISS above work. I've connected with so many people at Johnson Space Center, and I guess I didn't really know what all of their roles were, but a lot of them are flight controllers. I knew that. But one of them in particular is also the person, one of the people who work with astronauts when they are working with payloads like ours. So it was a real amazing aha moment for me. I mean, we all know that the ISS program is made up of thousands of people. We look at astronauts, we look at those in mission control, but it just represents such a variety of different roles. My friend is one of the ones who literally, yeah, I hope your procedures are clear enough to make sure that when I'm talking to the astronauts that we get everything going. It's like, if you mess that up, Liam, you know, you'll never hear the end of it. That's right, exactly. Hey, Liam, do you remember step 20.a-3? That's right, exactly. And the one just before that is before you take that lens cap off, make sure that the lens is not broken. So, you know, we have, you know, one of the key things for us is the lens, how the lens is manufactured, the coating on it to prevent browning based around, you know, the harsh environment it's in. You know, we have really good pedigree now. You know, these cameras have been up there for, you know, since January of 2022. And we're expected to be on the station for at least three years with our current payload. And hopefully we'll, we're planning, you know, an upgrade to this. So our first version that was on a communication satellite hosted payload, that one had six cameras, including pointable cameras. Now, we didn't put pointable on this version of space TV. When you say pointable, do you mean like PanTilt Zoom? Yeah, the little PanTilt Zoom I'm sort of doing, doing it because our cameras are pretty small. Okay. But yeah, we had a mechanism that allowed them to be PanTilt and Zoom, not Zoom, it was just Pan and Tilt really. And, but you know, we're looking at all of those as upgrades and so I, and while we're here, sorry, something just randomly came into my head because we did go over how we're funded. I mentioned how we're funded up to now, but why would people put money into us if they can't get money out? Yeah. All right. What's the return? What's the return? That's the reality. So although free to the public, I would say, you know, it's been described as freemium in that we do expect to have tastefully introduced sponsorship into the feed. So spacecraft operators, you know, we would love the folks like, especially where we're capturing things in 4K that have never been captured before, like doggies and undockings. So spacecraft operators like Boeing, Axiom, through obviously their commercial connection there, Sierra Space, and oh, who did I forget? Oh, it's SpaceX. Yes. So anyway, that's part of where we're looking to create opportunities for sponsorship to happen. Also giving exclusive, giving access, non-exclusive access to the footage. And, you know, we've made a lot of connections with spacecraft operators and with many of them, still got a few to connect with. But the idea is that there'll be an opportunity for them to have access to footage that really highlights their missions in a way that hasn't been possible. And that content could be used in their marketing and communication and outreach side of things. So that's one side is that the other one is simply, so our current satellite is, some of our customers that I can talk about are, we have been tasked by organizations that are creating documentaries to capture events around the world that are a match for their content. So expect us in upcoming BBC things. I hope I'm not letting anything I shouldn't do out there. Too late, it's gone to various organizations that are doing other kinds of documentaries and news as well. So our footage is, we're looking to make connections with some of the major news organizations. You know, you can just mention any of them and, you know, from Reuters, you know, AP, folks like that, where we can provide very unique content that is related to what they're offering. On the freemium side of it. I was just going to ask you, like, how can we go see live views of 4K from space? Yes, thank you for asking. And so you can just go to sen.com and that will get you started with everything about connecting with us as a member of the public. If you happen to have an iPhone, at the moment we have an iPhone app, and let me just log in. I should have done this before I joined in. Yeah, here we go. So you can't, yeah. You can't, it's gone black. Let me go back again. All right, yeah, here we go. So there is a sen app that will, you will see video clips that we've curated and uploaded through that. But there is, one of the tabs down the bottom is called live. And he says, and for some reason, I've messed that up, let me get back into it. There is a live tab. So that is where you will see, so on there, there's a countdown to the next live stream from ETV A1. So you can have a countdown to that and go and see what our live is like. But that's where, you know, this is the first version of our app, where we're updating it. There will be an ability for you to put on and off the augmented reality overlays. So, and that's a real key thing, right? Really quickly though, is that app published? Because I just searched for Sen on the app for a while. Where is it? I know, I've got the same thing. This is where you say to me, Liam, that's the worst, that's the worst experience I've had of finding an app that is available. Where is it? I think we may have to talk to Apple about, I don't know, figure out. It used to be visible on there. I'm pretty sure if you go to sen.com and register, especially on a browser on your phone, it gives you a link to the app then. Yeah, but it is bonkers. I totally agree with that. I think you should leverage Apple a little bit to make sure you get it on the app store. You should be like, hey, you know all the technical advice you're getting for all mankind. That may disappear, just like this isn't on the app store. Good idea, Jared. Yes, I think you're right, exactly. And there is actually a very strong connection between Apple and the ISS program, because anyone who has an Apple TV, you're greeted with, you know, or the screensavers that they have created that include about 20 clips that were created through astronaut time-lapse photography. It doesn't look like it was done that way. It was in 2018 was when it was released at the developers' conference in June and also released at the ISS R&D in San Francisco. So they have some great content there and boy, can we create some great content for Apple. So good idea. If anyone has any connections, I have some connections in there, but it's always, I have my dastardly plan and my pro-life tip to everyone who's here is just never shut up talking about what you're committed to, to everyone that you're connected with and somehow, and you find that there are connections that you never knew were possible. And I've got to say that's what has made this possible to go from, you know, a little gizmo that lights up when the space station is above to now, you know, being with a company. I'm still doing ISS above, by the way, everyone. That's still there and we're working out a way to get the content over to the ISS above that I've got, which is not capable of displaying 4K. Yet. I will say, I did find it on the App Store. Here's how you find it. For anyone who wants to find the app, you type in sen, that's Sierra Echo November, space, videos from space. So send videos from space and it will be like the second result after the ad. There you go. Thank you. If you search for videos from space, won't show up. If you search for sen, won't show up. Send videos from space and you will be able to find the app. That is the real deal. Okay, yeah, I have immense gratitude for you, Jamie, for doing that. You're welcome. There you go. Got it. Let's do it with us now. Yeah, so at the moment we're still, you know, I'd say we're relatively low on the subscribers, you know, but we're expecting, especially when we go full hog with, we're going live. So I mentioned, yeah, we've got to go through all that procedure, astronauts taking it out, take the lens caps off, plugging it in, shoving it out the air, Canada, I'm doing it in. How long is that going to take? Good question. Initially, so we were scheduled to be launched a lot earlier, but it looks like we may not be installed until the end of May. Okay. Which is a little bit sad, satisfying for, satisfying, is that a word? I mean, is that a word? I'm a little, a few tears here because the Boeing CFT flight, I think is scheduled to launch end of April beginning, I think May, it's currently says net early, first week of May, I think. And there was a chance when we first launched that we would be potentially up and running before then. We'll have a week or so of testing. I didn't mention one of the key things about this, and this is mind blowing for me. So all of the live video that we get from NASA is downlinked. There is no, for the external cameras, EHDC, nothing is recorded. It is the way that it's done is it streams live from the camera to the ground. And what that means is if there's ever an LOS, to my knowledge, that content is lost. What's amazing and mind blowing about our stuff is that we have up to 60 hours of 4K recording on board our payload. So that means we are immune to LOS events, and we can record all three cameras simultaneously. And there's a few things about that that I'm just so excited for. Is everyone sort of, you know, I'm sure everyone here is aware of when the space station does a little nifty maneuver called an OPM, where the station is spun around 180 degrees, but it doesn't just, you know, go the way that you might think, which is just space stations spin around 180 degrees and you're done. It does a funky little gravity assist. So it dips one side of the station down, and that causes a gravity differential, you know, slightly higher gravity on the bit that's closer to the earth by a few meters, and that induces a spin that then pulls it around. And I just have this thing, I want that to be captured for the benefit of humanity. I want to see that, and I've tried to capture it using their current cameras because there are two life feeds that NASA gives. And I've done some pretty good captures and you can see, you know, oh yeah, the space station is spinning around. It takes about an hour to an hour and a half to complete that. And then but we will be going to capture the whole thing. And I just think that's cool. Astronauts, no astronauts harmed in that. They often do it when they're asleep. Although I did hear on a space to ground the other night. I think that maybe they weren't told that it was going to happen because they did this at night in preparation. Why don't we keep running into the wall? Yeah, it's sort of a little bit more subtle than that, but I'm sure if you happen to be getting up to go to the bathroom at night and you know, you're just sort of somebody thinking why am I shifting around a little bit of a subtle sort of rotation, but and I think I heard one of the space to ground conversations saying can you make sure that you let us know that's going to happen before it happens so that you don't realize why that. Based on that I'm going to assume that during this maneuver they usually lose TDRS and they don't have their TDRS which is the tracking and relay data satellite system and that's how Space Station gets its downlink which brings up a good question. So you've got storm forward, but when you're not doing storm forward, when you're doing your live stuff, Benjamin is asking how are you going to go back to Earth for those live views? Yes, that is the question, right, because my experience with all of this TDRS is the way that things come come down. So we are, so I've got to just come clean here, we are somewhat sort of separated from exactly how that's all going to happen. So we're contracted through Airbus contract through ESA and there is something called EDRS like TDRS. Okay. There is something called EDRS and so somewhere European Space Agency has their own set of satellite communication resources and they have their own antenna and the EDRS contract is about 24-7 live stream barring usual access, usual issues with downlink with loss of signal. So we're not saying that we're going to do 100% 24-7 it will be somewhat less than that, but we're going to work towards that. So we'll see where it goes and that's where I am with it right now. Officially we're going through EDRS so what we've got is our payload, we've gone through all of the testing and that's a big part of this, I should have mentioned just how do we do this? We don't just build the thing and it gets launched. No, for the last two years we've been working with Airbus Space and Defense Houston having weekly, bi-weekly calls with their team and we were assigned a payload integration manager and that payload integration manager I believe is on the NASA side of things because ultimately NASA has to sign off on what we are sending to the space station. So I believe at every part of the process our requirements for the bandwidth and the availability of that bandwidth has been fully worked out with everyone who needs to do something with that. Hopefully that is the case when we're plugged in and doing that first testing we'll see how that goes but logically I'll explain how we're working. So our payload we went through initial flight testing, I'll call it flight testing with our payload and we delivered it to Houston in November Airbus Defense Space and Defense has offices about two miles from JSC campus and that's where our wonderful talented software engineer was there running the tests and that was essentially making sure our hardware was working and operating independently but that's when we started we were doing some tests with the Airbus we're calling it the Airbus Cloud and we've continued to do these tests so back in our bench set up in our London office there is a complete duplicate of the payload and we've been using that to run tests against the Airbus Cloud and that's where we've been testing the bandwidth utilization that we need testing what happens when there's an LOS our payload has access to telemetry while it's on the station so we know exactly what the current attitude of the station is which and this is what really makes it possible for us to do those augmented reality overlays because we know we have control from the space to the ground as far as our payload is concerned it's the master of its own destiny it knows where it is it knows how it's oriented and that information is then available to us when we're doing the live stream so we can do those augmented reality overlays showing both the locations cities when we with machine learning we're going to be over my head right here are some of the wildfires that were in Quebec and reaching and other point I think this is Saskatchewan and stuff like that so we can do all of that because we have access to all of that telemetry and so how much bandwidth and not sure I can disclose exactly what that is but it's a modest amount of bandwidth based around the fact that it is 4k 30 frames per second and we can adjust the frame rate as needed for different use cases also adjust the exposure that's why if I was to show you yeah so this is blow your mind with so firstly I'm going to not blow your mind so back on my screen here this is what we have with the NASA downlink with the EHDC camera Ryan, that is London on the right side there you can see if I move my mouse that's Heathrow, this is downtown London Bristol was just over here and I think you are somewhere over you are in Norfolk so you are off the screen up there a bit a little bit higher up there there is no electricity there you go so and it may be a little bit difficult to see everything that's moving is obviously a city village thing that is lit up by and we are going to go over to Antwerp now across the channel but you can also see what are called hot pixels these are the CMOS chip in the Nikon D4 receives radiation damage mostly it's invisible during daytime but you can see if you know where to look so everything that is a static thing and you will see they are going in and out of visibility but those are it's essentially chip damage and very high exposure is used to get that so now what I'm going to show you is what we can do so find my mouse again here is the mouse go back to here, sorry about this, I'm going to get right there and I'm going to show you what we can do with a pass over Tokyo if I can find Tokyo come on here we go it is Tokyo Tokyo oh my heck that is just mind blowing I want to show you this one this was one where we had really incredible tracking so this is real time and it's like we are using the satellite as a tilt zoom thing you will see that there are some things working out as far as the exposure and color balance there but this is although it may look static it is actually moving in fact there was something that was visible as a flash across the lakes that are just right of center there a second ago and let me show you so this satellite is one where the 10 meter resolution camera is pointing at exactly the same spot as the 250 meter so I'm going to show you that same view but from, so this was exactly the same time this is the 250 meter resolution and you will see that there are some lightning storms that are visible in the just right of top center and so this and you will see there are some other artifacts in here I think we can see some banding on there but you can literally see clouds that are lit I think this was probably third quarter moon or maybe getting close to full moon so that the clouds were there were visible but anyway hopefully I don't know where I was going with that I just wanted to impress the world with a kind of live night views that are going to be possible I think the general community says wow that's going to be pretty incredible I think it's really exciting I know we've gone long haven't we I haven't even looked at the timing here oh it's fine like the show length is however long the show is you know what I mean yes there will be an android version of the app it will come out very soon so sorry about not being there right now there was a comment earlier talking about the app let me see if I can find it was from XWOOD he says the project is so cool but honestly installing another app doesn't feel worth it like a lot of people just don't want to put more apps on their phone and this is a cool project but can you just do an H.265 stream on a page or an aggregator somewhere but you do that right on the send web page yes send web page so you don't need to install an app you can just go through the app itself is so the web version of this we always will have that work well for the mobile environment but you know let's face it 4k on this literally on this is not the best way to experience 4k right just a you know unless I want on a big screen so yeah there will be so you can definitely we are working on having like fire TV apps Apple TV apps so it will be available there the key thing though for our revenue model getting back to the that important part of this is the revenue model means that we need to have access we need to have some level of control over the content and where it's displayed so although it's publicly available we expect anywhere that it's going to be presented in a commercial sort of environment to lots of people that's where we'll need to sort of work out how that works and I've got to say you know we are you know starting at a certain place and we're going to end up at a certain place that mean what I mean by that is that that out from here we have ideas you know for instance we're looking to have this featured in science centers who is involved in a local science center that has an ISS above yeah there you go so I will mention Jarrod's at the Columbia Memorial Space Center in Downey and they've had an ISS above there for some time and yeah we still do have it it's in our model of the interior of the Columbus module and it is one of our highlights of that area whenever we introduce it especially in field trips with kids it is often kids standing in front of it for five maybe ten minutes trying to figure out where they are in the world and also just kind of in awe of seeing the earth from space in real time and I mean for us and probably most of our viewers it is probably a everyday occurrence that we see earth from space at some point in real time but for most folks who don't think about space all the time like we do it's certainly a treat and a delight for them to get that experience and it's very nice to have that and thank you for delivering that I feel like there are certain entities that should be doing that to begin with but it's still good to have at least to be doing that just as well we've got something that will keep that thing going because the current obstruction that's now in there for the foreseeable future will have students I would say less slightly less award I don't think so I think the obstruction adds to it because it really helps I don't know what it is but when I see something there it helps remind me that that's on a space station that's part of a space station most of the time they might be kids and adults may think oh well it's just a view of the earth so this could have been pre-recorded at any time I think once you add in that element of this like an actual static thing that you are attached to right along in orbit I think it adds to me it adds to it it doesn't detract from it I would have said before I'm with you 100% I wanted it there I totally wanted it there but now that we've got this my you know my heartfelt thing is that there is a loss here with what these views mean to like I curate these clips now so NASA doesn't the clips are just provided free to the public thank you for doing that NASA never any complaint about that and but further use cases of that stream were something that was left up to the public essentially and I was one of those people you if you go on a twitter go to ISS above you you'll see that I've captured many many clips and a lot of them were used by news media so they'd approach me when I had some great views showing from the space station they take them it's a little bit I'm not quite sure in the context of that use case that that large an obstruction will be acceptable um I definitely agree with that what they had before when you could see the solar arrays rotating through very slowly and then there was just that little bit of I don't know what part exactly that was so I have yes this version here um so this is what the obstruction used to be um and there we go and that's showing uh you know Monterey down on the bottom center there leading into a view of the bay area uh San Jose and then across the Sierras yeah this this was the obstruction in my view enhanced the connection um in a way and so and I don't think that yeah we're not going to have that in the 4k stream make sure that the viewers that experience our 4k from the space station will appreciate it's coming from a place where human beings uh are actually they have the ability to see the view out the cupola at that moment um so uh I just randomly noticed a question how many dead pixels you're expecting to get per year I wish I could have a full answer to that I would say from seeing the um the raw images from our current camera we will have uh sort of hot pixels you know pixels that have been entirely damaged through to pixels that have reduced uh capability um but clearly what we've got right now with a two-year-old camera in space it's certainly a manageable amount of uh camera chip damage and uh certainly for the space station version we can we can send out new hardware if you want I actually know the CEO of black magic and he had we were talking about this exact issue of like radiation issues in space you can see just rip through the sensor destroy pixels he has a couple really clever ideas on how to mitigate that at the end of the day it's the pixel misrepresenting what it thinks its values are the radiation is screwed up basically the three numbers it gives off right but if you can just re-black balance the camera and re-white balance the camera you can say oh well this is off by this value offset that and then effectively get that pixel back to a point so what you're talking about and this is I didn't go into this but I'm glad you brought it up so I come from the astronomy background I'm not an expert in astrophotography but I know a lot of people who are and I dabbled in it so what you do if you're doing a long exposure with with a CCD camera that's designed for astrophotography they're often cooled and you go through a process before you start your night's operations where you do something that's called a dark frame subtraction it's where you capture the view with your lens cap on at the same exposure settings and field of view that you will be doing for your actual live captures and what that gives you in this case they're still images but so you record maybe a 60 second image on your CCD with the lens cap on that gives you a bias frame that you then and that's basically exactly what you were saying Jamie you then subtract that from your your real captures when the lens cap is off so and we couldn't do that before so NASA's camera because it's custom firmware that is on a Nikon D4 that's on the space station and all we can deal with someone could have created something to do that on the using the firmware on the camera but I don't know if they have the capacity to upload new firmware to the cameras from what I understand I don't believe they can but for the first time I think we have the capacity to do that so exactly what you said you created where we're going with it we can do stuff on the station before it's even transmitted down so we can do all of that I'm sure Grant won't mind me mentioning this so did I mention that I've had a passion to do this since 2016 and I presented at the ISS R&D three times on these ideas and did I mention them in 2017 I had the whole senior leadership of Blackmagic Design come with me to Johnson Space Center and by the way Grant he is like a super expert with everything to do with Saturn V and the engines just unbelievable oh sorry you're muted I think are you muted or am I muted if it's Aerospace Orphids video Grant's just absolutely it's crazy how much you know 100% so I took them there because my dastardly plan was that to see whether Blackmagic Design could create a space born a space capable camera, studio camera this massive capabilities for exposure dynamic range and all of that stuff and so that was something where we had the whole team, the project managers and it was right after NAB in I think they're pretty sure it's 2017 so they all came down to Johnson Space Center and had a look around there so maybe something will be possible in the future with them, keep plugging away oh I will I talk with him about this all the time Darren, Grant, Tim the whole crew they're fantastic people they're super passionate about this stuff and they do their engineering is just crazy right it's like I don't know how else to describe them other than the SpaceX of video it would be really cool to see the SpaceX of video doing things in space, you know what I mean yeah, alright well it's not impossible that could still happen and I think it's a great connection there and I know a lot of this, I use this stuff the stuff I'm doing to switch between screens here, do this is on their hardware so I've used their switches from the very first version of the TVS if you remember that thing there you go, live color correction with DaVinci Resolve that's awesome I think we're so I'm in a position now with Sen where yeah, there's this is the bit that is a bit like although we've been around for a number of years we're in a new mode where I would say that we're bringing something disruptive to the entire world of Earth observation from a news perspective from a perspective of allowing people real-time access to a view of the Earth and other places we plan to go to other places so on our roadmap is every leo destination especially that has human beings on it so that would be all to reef the space lab from nanoracks and such like all the way to CIS Lunar eventually so we are at the moment our systems they would not tolerate the ultra high radiation environment of CIS Lunar but we are working to get there you just need some sort of gateway to get you from here to there there you go, gateway to get us from here to there and maybe we're looking to get on some intuitive kind of machine that might be heading that way eventually as well but really all the above and also creating some this is the disruptive side of it with what we've got, with the control that we have over our payload right through to the ground and how it's then represented out I expect us to come up with some really bonkers crazy wonderful ways that the public can engage with what we're providing so I can't really tell anything more about it because it's just bonkers crazy ideas at the moment but you mentioned news organizations being able to use this but I would argue that for news to be able to realistically use this they need kind of total coverage of the earth all the time because you don't know where news is going to happen you don't know when there's going to be a volcano eruption or whatever the case may be and if you're not orbiting over that moment in time you don't get to catch that moment in time so do you have plans to add additional views around the earth to capture more of the earth concurrently or are you kind of limited to just the existing orbital platforms and where they're located yes so I'm glad you asked so between now and 2025 we have plans to launch 2025 that's being present to how soon that is could be the end of 2025 so we have plans for four other earth observation platforms of our own design so we've started off with nano avionics and that's been a great way for us to learn how to do things we've had some really great examples of odd challenges and failures generally that's allowed us to really iterate our design so yeah we're looking to have our send camera payload worked into other satellite designs so these would still be our own satellite so although we are planning hosted platforms so yeah when axiom space has the axiom space station their initial versions going up we are definitely working on that option for us to pay to be there and other methods of doing it but beyond that we already have ETBA1 which is entirely our own 16U satellite we're actually looking to launch smaller versions so we're designing smaller ones maybe 8U up to bigger ones as well so that's definitely on our roadmap so yeah what you said is exactly true for us to be here and now present with whatever's going on we want to have constant revisit rates ability to do this kind of thing we're not setting ourselves up to be like the standard kind of earth observation service where like planet and others they may be providing targeted downlinking of high resolution still imagery but we do have plans our next iteration will go down to 2 meter resolution and then it will be more critical to have very tight control over the pointing accuracy and how we're doing that and you know for many of the use cases typically a still image is all you need but we are about I certainly personally have always felt the live nature of video from space is something that can make the biggest difference in the public so ultimately that is really where the use case goes to it's about the public then being inspired by it and news media is a very important way that that can be done the news media has utilized some of our footage already I think last year there were some wildfires over the island of roads that I think just happened to be the first example I can't remember I think it was Sky TV they used one of our clips showing the wildfire via smoke from the island and we've done a lot of re-visits since then but good question hopefully that gave you that answer so I expect to be over at Cape Canaveral for further launches SpaceX still has the great market for allowing small operators like us a space in their transport emissions where we pay for a little bit of the payload space and we get to be deployed with all of those thank you SpaceX so if it's alright with you Liam what I'd love to do is go into our member only show just let the members just ask you questions point blank just straight to you and you can just rapid fire answer any questions they may have in regards to like anything you're allowed to talk about I think that'd be a lot of fun and then in the future as you're launching more and more of these reach out I think this is really interesting and I'm really excited to see the system go online and actually be able to watch live views from space again kind of like HDev used to offer and you can do it now but it's not HDev but it was magical right because it was just like you know there was something nice about it that was just kind of lost when they ended the experiment and so it's nice to see you guys bringing that back effectively yeah well I so I'll finish firstly but yeah definitely let's go into that after show soon but what I'm also if you can switch over to my screen share at the moment I sort of want to give you a final view I'll restart this one so and I'll pause it right here so ETVA1 was passing right over Cape Canaveral the day before we launched and we launched on SLIC40, SLC40 right here and it's hard to see I'm waving it around it the VAB and I was on OSB2 just over here about 3.2 miles if I remember right there you go yeah it's a fair distance I've been to launches where they're a lot closer and the hotel I was staying at when we're down there is the Courtyard Marriott I know it well it's got the space bar on top actually in Cape Canaveral and you want to know where to go to get a great view of a launch the Courtyard Marriott because they've got the space bar up top so you just go up top, grab a drink they pipe in, countdown that audio and off you go and by the way when we go into our member show I'm going to ask you about Space to Ground 2 you mentioned telemetry so I want to know like marrying up with SG2 and then marrying up with like telemetry and your augmentation system like I got a bunch of other questions like how you can integrate and enhance the experience yeah so thank you and thanks for having me on here thanks everyone for being here for the story I've shared and I really want to finish by 100% acknowledging what NASA provided from their first when the live stream started of HDev it was April 30th 2014 and that's what inspired me I know it's inspired hundreds of millions of people since then and I hope with where I'm coming from and where I know CEN is coming from we're going to be a great additional way where people of the earth get to experience themselves from space I'm excited like there was truly epic about HDev as I mentioned like you said it started with NASA we take NASA for granted we get all these beautiful free views from space where else do you get that who offers that it's going to be great to have something back something back where we can be inspired and just look at our planet in another way the conversation will continue on our post show for all the members of tomorrow who helped to make this epic show happen week after week month after month as Liam was kind of talking about this stuff does take money for him it costs money and for CEN it costs money to bring up the ground station coverage so you can get feeds even store and forward whatever the case may be anything we do in life costs money and these are the people who helped to contribute to this show to make it happen week after week month after month we've been going strong for well over a decade and I really appreciate every single person in this list truly you guys helped make everything happen and if you loved this show right after this if you look in the description of the YouTube video we've got a member show coming up and like I said that's where I'm going to be asking Liam some of those questions about well some future nerdy technical questions also I want to go into the cameras a little bit you know what not if he's allowed to and if you want to just like directly ask him questions just like full send we're just going to let him go we kind of let him go on the show but like let's go even deeper if you want to go even deeper that's the place to do it is in our in our membership show so again thank you everyone so much for joining Ryan I think you said three words this entire show it was fantastic all three words were great and they were all about your I have some things for the member show we're fine I'm saving it for the people who pay us money I I do have I do still have we never really got to use this I don't think but like we do still have this graphic sold out sold out do you even have one I have one it's far away now but I do have one all right on that note thank you everyone so much for joining us I hope you enjoyed us bringing back Liam by the way I don't know if you know the first interview that we've brought back since around COVID right is that right because we broke our ability to do interviews and then like we lost the studio and so I knew that you would be a really great guest and you'd be really easy to interview and you were you just run with it it's fantastic so you're one of our first hopefully we'll be able to get to do a lot more of these everyone asked to bring the interviews back and Liam you were a really great first interview thank you so much for taking time I've been sad to be able to have it Liam I will shoot you a link to the member show in a moment everyone else we'll see you over there different show okay different show