 and gentlemen, a very, very warm welcome to you. My name is Hitti the entrepreneur and you are tuned into the Private Property Podcast. This is the best property podcast, this side of sub-Saharan Africa. I hope that you are doing well and that you are keeping nice, warm and cozy on this fantastic Thursday evening. I'm super excited about the conversation that we're going to be having this evening. But before we get into it, shall we mark the register? I think we should. Let me know your name and where you are joining from within the coming section. Let me know your name and where you're joining from within the coming section. We've got a fantastic topic that we're talking about this evening. We are talking about property technology and we're going to be looking at it within the South African context. This is a really, really interesting conversation and I look forward to unpacking it with our guest, Daniel Levy, who is the co-founder of Flow Living. Now, if you are enjoying the show so far, then you definitely want to make sure that you tune in to all of the other shows that we have live right here on Private Property. We have got The Homebuyer Show that is hosted by Chad that is every Monday and Friday at 8 p.m. We've also got The First Time Homebuyer Show by Isti Klaassen that is every Wednesday at 8 p.m. As well as The Farming Podcast by Mbali Nwokul every Tuesday and Thursday at 8 p.m. Isn't that fantastic? Every single day at 8 p.m. We have got fantastic value-added shows for your viewing pleasure right here on Private Property. Now, we must thank you, our fantastic followers for helping us to reach one million followers. This is no small feat, so congratulations to you and thank you so much for being part of our private property community. We really do truly appreciate the value that you bring and we would love to hear more from you. When you head over to our Facebook page, you can share with us your hashtag one in a million reason why you love Private Property on the post that is pinned at the top of the Private Property Facebook page. It's pinned at the top, leave us your comment and your comment could be read out on our show at 8 p.m. every single evening. So, let's get straight into our conversation. I'm joined this evening by Daniel Libby, who is the co-CEO of Flow Living. Good evening, Daniel, how are you this evening? I'm great, thank you, thanks for having me. Fantastic, and where are you joining us from this evening? My office is the penthouse of the Marriott Hotel in Melrose Arch. Oh, that sounds absolutely fabulous. We flipped the commercial office model on its head and hired an apartment. I love that, and that's what's so interesting, isn't it, about the technology space and looking at property technology in particular. It's about taking normal concepts and turning it over its head and actually creating something new. So, perhaps let's start at the very beginning, Daniel. Can you tell us what exactly does Flow Living actually do? Great question. So, Flow is essentially a prop tech platform. It's quite interesting within the current landscape that we are in when we look in terms of prop technology. So, thank you so much for sharing that with us. I see we've got Menci that's joining us. We've got Mercy within the comment section. Colleen Janssen, I see you. We've got some of our regulars. It's always fantastic to have regulars with us. I see you, Bukeka. A very, very warm welcome to all of you this evening. So, let's talk a little bit about prop tech, Daniel, in terms of the current landscape. I think over the past 17 months with everything that the world has gone through, we've all been forced to take a different view and look at technology and the way that we interact with technology. How has people's relationship with the prop tech space evolved over the past couple of months? Great question. So, I think if I just go back one step, I think the, you know, COVID, no COVID, I think if you take the global, and that's where technology comes in. So, you know, we're looking at solving a problem that is quite rough and trying to take what is invariably a very old model. The property model's very old. There's no difference in transacting today as it was 100 years ago. Buying a house takes long, getting your title deed take three months of transfer, et cetera, et cetera. The long and the short of it, people don't have time. They don't want to waste time. They want to move on and move on fast. Yeah, that's very, very true. I think time is money these days and convenience definitely does reign supreme. And having said that, what would you say then looking within the prop tech space would be the biggest challenge that is facing us in South Africa? So, I think, you know, probably being the largest sect on the planet is equally the one industry on the planet that's the most laggard. And the problem with that is with a laggard industry, you come slow adopters. Slow adopters mean that, you know, people invariably throw people at a problem as opposed to technology. Therefore, before you can actually start to achieve anything, it becomes very cumbersome. So, until we slowly and iteratively start to get people to actually embrace technology as to how to add efficiencies into their businesses, that will be always a challenge. One which we obviously hoping to dispel and break into bring efficiencies into an industry which really needs it. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think efficiency is something that really does assist to set businesses apart in terms of their longevity and the value that they're doing within the marketplace. So I'm really glad that you've spoken about that because it tells us that flow living is actually very well positioned for that. I see that we've got great individuals that are chatting to us within the comment section. There's Fatima, there's Glad Shurinda, there's Balisa, there's Michelle. Let me know within the comment section if you think we are going to have a rollover of our competition today, or if you think the win of the 500 grand is among our midst. Let me know in the comment section. So, Daniel, going back to our conversation and really looking at some of the challenges that we are facing within South Africa, within the proper tech space, what exactly would you say is the problem that is primarily being solved by property technology? So, yes, I think when one takes, innovation invariably brings arguable disintermediation into an industry, right? And I think that's always a big risk for any industry that's gonna take on technology. A good example is the fact that you can buy your own airline ticket today. When that kind of initially came to the fore, everyone thought that travel agents were gonna go out of business. The fact of the matter is those that are good sustain and those that aren't really tech savvy or really worth it fall by the wayside. So, our view is that technology will equally do the same thing. We think that estate agents fulfill a very definitive function within the property industry and that they will always sustain. However, the speed in which people can actually transact is going to be the most important thing for them actually to ensure that they keep top of mind. Fantastic. Michelle Balmorans, I see that you say that your name is all over the 500 brand. I really hope it is. Let's make sure that your fingers are nice and green this evening. Daniel, I want us to just break down what the term this intermediation actually mean. What does that really mean in layman's terms for our audience to be able to understand and what do you believe the impact it will have on estate agents? Yeah, so essentially this intermediation is invariably taking one cog of the wheel out of a normal function. So, where you deal with an estate agent in order to actually buy and sell a property, you know, there are regions around the world where you don't have to do that. You can do it through technology. In America, there's what's called our buying models, which is a very simplistic way in which they've got smart algorithms and augmented reality. And sorry, artificial intelligence, which actually determines the value of your house by you just putting in where it actually is. It will give you a value and someone can make you an immediate bid to buy it. The fact of the matter is in order to do that transaction, you don't have to engage with anybody. So this intermediation is essentially removing people from the traditional puzzle and replacing that with technology. Ah, wow. Thank you so much for breaking it down so simply and so easily. It's basically just taking that, you know, that exorbitant process out, streamlining it, bringing in automation and technology so that your experience is so much better. So now speaking about consumer experience, when we talk about the property technology space, what does a good consumer experience look like for an individual that is looking to buy or sell their property? So I think, look, it's a pretty loaded question. I think if I look at how certain experiences have changed, if you look at Airbnb, for instance, Airbnb changed the game. They've given you a merger of being able to rent a residential apartment, house, whatever the case may be, anywhere on the planet, giving you a hospitality spin to it, going akin to our workout of a hotel room. And then equally to transact on that, you just take the credit card details and you arrive in a city, you get a set of keys and there you go. So that to me is probably really tinkers on the top end of a user experience journey of me, the consumer getting exactly what I want, where I want, a whole bunch of related information around where I am gonna stay. And I think anything that means in that kind of direction is really onto something. Right, fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Daniel. Ladies and gentlemen, our private property family, we have reached that time of the evening. Can you guess what time of the evening it is? Absolutely. It is time for us to find out who our lucky prize winner is. Now before we get into it, let me know in the comment section if you're ready to find out. Give me a ready within the comment section if you are ready to find out who our lucky winner is. Let me take a look within the comment section. I see Silani is ready, Evarincia is ready, Colleen is ready, fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. Falisa is ready, the green hearts are going. I am so, so excited myself. Let us run the random selector. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm so excited. Let's take a look at who our lucky winner is this evening. Our lucky winner is Mkateko Agape. Mkateko Agape is our lucky winner of the 500 grand. Now Mkateko, all you need to do to claim your prize is to comment within the comment section. Let us know that you are within the building, you are with us this evening and the 500 grand is absolutely yours. Family within the comment section, do you think Mkateko's going to show up? Let me know within the comment section. This is so, so exciting. And these prizes are as a result of your loyalty, your being part of our tribe and community over here at Private Property. We really do appreciate you helping us to reach one million followers. This is really just a celebration of you and the uniqueness that you bring to our amazing platform as well as www.privateproperty.co.z. So we are really, really excited to have you here with us. Let's see if Mkateko is really going to claim the prize. Now, Daniel, when we look at the proper tech space, I really want us to begin to look at how does it compare to our counterparts abroad, let's say the US and Europe? Do you feel that South Africa is playing on its counterparts? Or do you feel that we've got a little bit of a way to go? So look, the property sector again is the largest sector on the planet and naturally in bigger countries and bigger arenas, the problems compounded and equally solvable. So I mean, first of all, countries have always been ahead of the game when it comes to technology, technology, integration, implementation. That said, South Africa in particular has a very mature property industry and market, one that's been around for a very long period of time. Coupled with that, you've got an emerging market which is essentially our first-time home owners. So when you blend those kind of two things, we really are melting pot for real, real innovation. And I think that's coming to the fore of you. Yes, there is a, I suppose a land graph with certain sectors within the property industry which you can try and tackle from a technology standpoint, meaning that a property is vast. You can be an estate agent, you can be a developer, you can be a landlord, you can be a managing agent. You've got to kind of pick your poison of what you're trying to solve. But within this industry I think there's more than enough to chew on and we're very excited by it. That's fantastic. That really is so great to know that we are actually playing up there with the big dogs and we are making our presence known. And indeed, property really is such a global leader, the world over. And we want to make sure that we're positioning ourselves well within that particular space. So ladies and gentlemen, has Nkateko shown themselves? Nkateko, are you with us? I know that you are one of our top fans, so we definitely love for you to be able to claim your prize. Now, Daniel, you know, we've spoken about property within the South African context. Let's narrow it down and look at flow living in particular. What makes flow living actually unique? Good question. Look, we've tried to play in a space where I always look at an income statement of the person that I'm trying to sell to. And if you're forming part of an OPEX line out to me variably, you can be considered a grudge purchase, you know, counting software, things of that nature. You need it, but do you really need it? Flow plays in a very unique space in that we form part of a marketing functionality with any kind of business. And as a result, that's a cost of sales line out to our clients. So you always linked to a positive outcome and we hope that is something that relates to sales, rentals, something that's gonna derive revenue for our clients. And that makes us quite an important player within the industry. I think in addition to that, you know, the history and the expertise that my partner and I bring to the party is that our former business, we were Facebook's partner in Africa, which has given us an edge of really understanding the space and how these we can apply that and the technology that we've built specifically to the property industry and giving our clients access to the smarts of those global platforms. So that really has given us the edge of where our unique selling proposition lies. That's actually quite interesting in looking at your relationship with Facebook and the fact that technology really does bring us so closely together. The fact that we're able to have this conversation in the manner that we are is testament to that fact. In what ways do you use social media within property technology? Good question. So, look, I mean, the social platforms have the largest audiences on the planet on them. You know that very well. So as a result, it's almost remiss that any business on the planet is not using social platforms to get business. That the Achilles heel, however, is that to use those platforms are actually very difficult. They're difficult, they cumbersome, and you really need to be an expert in order to get the best out of those platforms. So what we've done over here is essentially create a very easy user face to allow anybody. You don't need to be a marketing person. It really wraps in developers, data analytics, campaign management, and things of that nature all into the technology and makes it very user-friendly for somebody to use but get that output of all that IP. That makes a lot of sense. And I think that is such a value-added proposition that flow-living offers because social media in as much as it is really something that's integrated in our lives, a lot of people really struggle to use it from a consumer user experience and to actually have a platform that simplifies it, makes it easy and makes it really user-friendly is something that is absolutely fantastic. From a flow-living perspective, can you chat to us about some of the existing marketing processes that you engage in and what would really set you apart from that particular perspective? Yeah, so I mean, we always talk about marketing as an omnichannel approach. So, by way of example, you know, there's no silver bullet in any kind of environment where you go straight from consumer to then buying something. Invariably, when you look at an omnichannel marketing approach, it could be you driving in your car, seeing a billboard. Then you see a dustbin advertising, then a leaflet, and then something on Google, something on Facebook. And that iterative approach of seeing something at a certain frequency changes your mind as to why that thing becomes relevant. So, what we do for our clients is essentially provide them with that omnichannel journey and that digital placement within the social environment, which augments any other kind of marketing that they're already doing from a property perspective, which is the platforms, you know, the platforms, the street poll ads, the dustbins, the various other canvassing that property businesses do. And it becomes the sum of the parts is really where they get the value. But as you well know, digital is quantifiable and measurable. And we very easily can show those results and it's malleable, meaning that you never marry to anything. So, if the results aren't showing what you would like, you're able to tweak and move accordingly and really understand the strategy that you want your business to actually achieve. And that's all at your fingertips. So, that's really what we're about. Absolutely. And that's such a valuable and important point that you're making there, Daniel, is the fact that when we look at the digital space in comparison to traditional marketing, you actually can measure your return on your investment. There's analytics, there's insights that can give you valuable information and data to be able to measure your ROI, which is quite important, as opposed to a street poll ad where you're really not sure how many people have actually engaged with that particular touch point. So, I think that that's a really great value added proposition that you offer. Daniel, as we are speaking at the moment, the individuals that are watching us that are either within the property space or consumers of the property space, they want to get more technologically advanced within property, they want to embrace innovation, but it is incredibly daunting. What would your final parting words be to a person that is a little bit apprehensive, but knows that this is the way that they should be embracing? Yeah, so I think, look, the nice thing about digital is again, you never marry to anything and you can dip a toe in, you can dip a foot in, or you can jump in altogether. That's really up to you. So I think it's very important that whomever you engage with, you always ensure that you align expectations in terms of what you're after. And anyone worth their salt would obviously engage and take you along the appropriate journey to ensure that over time, you're going to start achieving what you desire. But I equally think that if you don't jump into the digital arena from a property perspective, it's got a significant detriment on your business from a future perspective because it's not going back, it's only going forward and it's going to go forward in leaps and bounds. That is such a fantastic note to end on, Daniel Levy. We are not going back, we are only going forward as far as digital is concerned within the property technology space. Daniel Levy, CEO of Flow Living, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and insights with us this evening. Thank you very much. So ladies and gentlemen, within our private property family, Nkateko Agape is here, yes. So congratulations Nkateko, congratulations for winning that 500 grand. As you can see, it honestly does actually pay to be a top fan of the private property page. We really do appreciate our growing community. You are really the heartbeat of what keeps us going and we appreciate you so much. Please don't forget to leave us a comment on our pinned post on our Facebook page and let us know your hashtag one in a million reason why you love private property. If you are as excited as I am about Nkateko's win, give us some green heart emojis within the comment section before we wrap up the show so that we can feel all warm and fuzzy inside on this beautiful Thursday evening. Now, as we draw to the end of this show, we hope that you've learned a lot about property technology and also the innovation within the property space. It's been an absolute pleasure sharing this evening with you and being your guest host. And if you've enjoyed yourself this evening, then your viewing pleasure does not have to end there. We've got the farming podcast that is coming up with Mbali Nuoku at 8 p.m. So don't go too far away. My name is Heti the entrepreneur. It's been an absolute pleasure being your guest host and I will see you again soon. Bye-bye for now.