 Hey, Doug So I think I used last week's Login I don't think there's you sent one for this week. I have not yet and I True confessions. I was just I logged into the zoom call first to see if there were humans here And now I'm gonna send a reminder right now that says we're starting now, but I didn't send a reminder last night Fantastic, but I don't remember ground. You've got there the color and the pictures. Thank you. It's actually real It's like my wall And that picture that picture is that watercolor my dad got long ago and the head is a This has been in my family since I was a kid Because I grew up in Peru That's beautiful. Yes and then and then that thing is a reproduction of Of an assembly of What do you call it when you fold paper origami origami? Thank you origami cranes basically Our artist trend Did this is actually the real one is pretty large. I think it's probably like six foot by six foot collection of origami cranes and We have the a reproduction from her well, it struck me about the head that you showed is That growing up as a child with that you probably absorb a lot of the whole culture that produced it So it's a powerful thing. I never thought of it quite that way Yeah, and I mean half my kids were local half my my friends were locals and half my kids were expats Only a small piece of which were American expats kind of so it was like, you know Filipino friends and whatever so I had a really interesting childhood that way and I wish I wish I wish I wish I'd seen much more of the local culture I wish I'd learned kitchen from you know, some of the people we knew and all that kind of stuff so I had a Weird weird glimpse of a different world because we had a very privileged lifestyle Yeah Go send an email to people. I am going to create an email right now and I think we're in the right place So composing it now if my machine will catch up with me. Good morning. Hi Klaus. Hey Klaus. How are you? Many things going on Yeah, there's a lot of stuff flying It's hard to keep up. It is I was just trying to catch up with all the messages around the food project Yeah, there's a lot But we have I think we know we now know enough For what we need to do next to get organized now It's sort of the picture is sort of starting to to emerge How are you doing with your book doc well I'm sending out chapter one To people who might connect me with an agent or a publisher It's been a great challenge to keep writing it I'm grateful for the opportunity because it gives me something to wake up to every day. That's good You know, I think to say that any proposed future is really an exercise in imagination not in reality Because things are so incredibly chaotic. We just really have no idea what's gonna happen I'm struck at the moment by the amount of writing that's happening Which makes it impossible to keep up because some of it's actually pretty good yes and At the same time I Think the many corporations have hired somebody to create language Which makes them look compliant while not changing anything and that's really mucking up the whole dialogue space That was really the disturbing thing on this You later the letter of concern scientists that just meant out I mean, it's basically a pitch for analog meats, right, I mean plant-based protein extracts, which is a horrible thing because they are Feedstock comes from monocrobs, right? So Brazil is is cutting down more of the Amazon forest to make room for this one answer of Meat substitutes and it's just an insanity Yeah, so to see an OSU is a leading university in the field of agriculture Now they have an extension and they're consulting this farmers so I mean, it just makes everything more difficult to have to have this lack of coordination So I was gonna reply to some of this morning's messages on the thread that just didn't have time because Time is seemingly vanishing With isn't it frustrating to see some good ideas and so many different perspectives vanish on a mailing list Right and like like I I've been on mailing list now for oh, I don't know two and a half decades Maybe more. I don't remember when the first you know mailing list I got on was I do remember roughly when I first got email because I didn't have email in high school or college Had email I guess by grad school. Yeah anyway but And I'm on a bunch of private mailing lists Which means that those emails just go off into the big bucket to die and there's some brilliant people on these private conversations Who are writing some great things and they're not Did those those posts don't see the light of day ever again, right? And that's I find that deeply frustrating. So one of the reasons One of the reasons I believe in curating a longer term context of some sort And for me, it's the brain kids that one stuck for me But for other people it could be other things is that that allows you to sort out In some more structure what you believe why you believe it What groups of people believe what they might you know, how what actions to take and maybe even what questions to be asking at the frontier of what we know Right and so and so So one of the principles Klaus that I think your concern would tap into is Hey before acting on some large-scale solution look upstream and figure out what are the consequences of the action And in this case it's like hey if we're going to do analog meats, we better make them in vats of bacteria or algae Instead of from crops because otherwise we're draining more crops, right? And there are people working on fake meats from from algae, right? That that's not enough and that would not be maybe a terrible solution But but every solution has all of these sort of knock-on effects and systems effects and we don't have a system to play with To sort of go simulating and go thinking about how to go about doing these things and compare notes We don't we don't have anything like that. Yeah the image I have in my mind When I was in Tanzania Looking at the great migration and you saw that those herds moving up and down Trying to to get across the water and then they couldn't make up their mind and the herd is swirling and You know chaotically moving back and forth until all of a sudden someone I mean one of the leaders goes into the water Or pushes another wildebeest in front of it like Are you are you first and the c plus are always hanging back to see what happens first? It's like is it this alligator or that alligator? Which one do we want to get eaten by? Yeah, and so but that's where we are right we're swirling and yeah the risk is you know that we are That we are that we are launching into the wrong direction And and commit irreversible resources to a bad solution This is something I've been wondering about a lot lately. We you know, we're sort of caught between the the deniers and the dithers Of like either there's nothing going on or we don't know what to do and and the folks saying it's urgent We got to do this right now and this right now might be the wrong thing Uh geo engineering just is one example that pops to my mind randomly. Um, but that's a very difficult place to be in You know, we have to move at speed. We have to move thoughtfully And um, there seems to be a real tension between them at least in me And we kind of need to do things everywhere at once You know, we have to we have to tackle the system in many directions at once but But if we did this right Those efforts wouldn't be counterproductive sort of they wouldn't neutralize each other They would pull in generally the same direction Right and to do that we probably need some some kinds of agreement some ways of figuring out like How things fit where they work. Well, we have a lot less coherence than a mob of wildebeest Yes, and and we have right now the shared memory of a mob of wildebeest What are wildebeest called in a like a group of zebras is called a dazzle A group of wildebeest has to have a name. Yeah, I'm slapping an eric's comment Yeah, it's it's going in meta, but I was wondering meta about what Because I thought maybe I can say something but then if it's not about that It's actually called an implausibility of wildebeest Is it? Yes You didn't just make it up No, uh, it's an implausibility of wildebeest We can look that up but but uh, I looked it up in my brain and I need to fact check it out like in the real world So eric we started with concerns about climate change and what actions to take and then I was I was saying that I was declaring my Grief at having watched so many good ideas go by on mailing lists in particular private mailing lists that they just they just end up in the Bitbucket Instead of being in the world where we can weave them together and make better bigger ideas and and you know edited and contribute And then we have you know people writing scientific papers which are Protected behind scientific academic research servers and whatnot. It's like seriously like these things need to be Front and center where we can work on them together And make them better But sherry are they just too many? It's not like there's one bad proposal for the future is that there are many Yes, and if we could figure out If we could figure out how to have conversations where we compare notes And collapse the overlaps meaning hey You know this theory and that theory are seem pretty different, but 30, you know 30 percent of both theories overlap Magnificently in this body of work Like let's let's sort of pin that down somehow and let's figure out What language we like or maybe different languages around the same thing, but this body of work might be rebuilding local community right The question is whether writing is going to be the effective medium In the near future And it might be that this needs to be a multimedia object or a hypermedia or a transmedia object Well, it's pretty clearly it has to be but I wonder are you talking about how do we and I wonder who is we if we as OGM it's one level of problem if we as the climate activist community It's different if we as the society it's different email is clearly insufficient for any of these And maybe we pilot stuff here Yeah, I would do that in a way that's you know this this coherent and has momentum and is productive Yes It kind of has been my research until now And I actually have been really working on that one of the challenging issues there is you can build a product that won't work because it's so complex that Eric you're right in principle. I think I kind of Sorry, I'm gonna closer closer to the Back to the source. Sorry Too bad So what I've been working on or thinking about a lot is like a kind of taxonomy slash um How to debate how to bring it together how to make it visual how to order it how to make it fit on a mobile screen I've been thinking about all those issues and I can't say that like I can't show like a drawing of what it would look like But I kind of understand how to put it together So if if I would have money now I could just go and say to developers Or if I have developers I would just tell them you can do this and this and this and this And it would probably work out in the end. It will be still a puzzle work But all the research is there and just for instance If And it's kind of a mix and match of all the platforms that I came across Like the brain is one element because it is able to relate all the information But then you also have something like convo who does this kind of Uh, okay, you've got you've got like a A document in the document you can underline things and comment on things and then these comments you can relate with other documents and Talk about it and bring it together. There's all kinds of procedures to make that kind of discussion work online so For me, it's just of bringing together all those things and build the news kind of software that does it and There seems to be a lot of frustration of not being able to make it work as a As a collective everybody's got their own ideas and I I hear also Jerry say Quite often like how do we do this together? And I just also had a conversation about yeah, how do how do we take our Personal brands out of it and start working together on it and it seems to be a very difficult challenge to do this And that's our comfortable to understand it, but it's all there at the same time. So it's kind of It's not a chicken and the egg problem, but kind of like Almost like we have we need to have difficult conversations as well about this On how to move forward. We have to kind of tell each other. No, this is not going to work But in a way that we don't have to see it as an offense, but as a as a way to move forward To really work with the pressure and to really work with how to move forward and and that's it's kind of also Something that's after the last call and like feelings that I had and seeing other groups how they work together but also by seeing so many different initiatives Burn out and just quit and give up and think it's not possible Yeah, that's that's what I wanted to share I guess Um, so yesterday I learned about something called the science of team science Which is the thing I had never Didn't know was a discipline and it's actually it's it's a discipline an academic discipline and studying Uh, sort of how how scientific collaboration actually happens Um, I've never heard about it before yesterday. I was like, oh, that's weird Um, it's I think it's a rubric under science and technology studies sts, which I had heard about And of course, I started adding it to my brain and all that kind of stuff But there there are a bunch of people who've been working on different aspects of this problem for a while Who and we're not really connected. So um we're not kind of So kind of Gil I think back to what you said like could we just sort of prototype it here in ogm and so forth The thing that's materializing in my head to do with ogm and I'd love to fly it here I didn't didn't expect to talk about it right now. I was going to do a normal check-in round But we're kind of in a perfect place to talk about this. I'm I'm thinking of uh, I'm thinking I'm I'd like to propose that ogm host a show That on the surface looks like a show and we already post our videos to youtube We're already kind of doing a show. It's just not labeled a show. It doesn't look and smell like a show It wouldn't take that much to produce one where we go and it's kind of it's like a pilgrimage to people who have Deep bodies of work or groups that have bodies of work on how to fix some of the world's problems um, but under the surface We're doing ogm kinds of things to all the interviews and to these bodies of work and we're weaving and connecting and building out Uh with as much clarity as we can What's happening and trying to do ourselves and model for others and then offer to anybody else who wants to come in And do it how to how to sort of do that process And I don't know that we can do it particularly well but I think that we have purview over and participation from Whole bunch of people who who who've been working on pieces of the answer Like like a lot of folks who care about this have shown up in the last 18 months or 16 months or I've forgotten what month we actually started our conversations here, but Plenty of folks have shown up with pieces of this puzzle that we could start to assemble and and sort of originally I was thinking of calling this something like weaving the world and that was like too highfalutin So I found a metaphor. I really like here Which is quilting and so, uh, the big quilt is kind of the umbrella I've got for thinking about this and it's like a patchwork quilt is made from various pieces any one of which should be beautiful But the patchwork is done often in community with a bunch of people weaving together And the idea is that the whole quilt should have an aesthetic and quilts Quilts are feminine technology. They are easy to understand. They are metaphorically rich They are warm and comforting there's a whole bunch of things around quilts that I really kind of like and then Collectively they can make a big impact like the AIDS memorial quilt the names project Where a whole bunch of people made pieces made quilts of their beloved deceased family members And presented them on the mall in washington one year and it was like, oh my god This is this is in fact a large tragedy and look at the scale of it And they didn't they they laid them all sort of next to each other and you could see what was going on in that way So so i'm wondering could we stand up a show within which The food project is a series of episodes and has its own stream And is busy sort of contributing to to how this works and we could be and there's there's a zillion podcasts out there There's a million blogs and shows But I don't think any of them is busy trying to weave and leave behind An improved memory of the work with with sort of a variety of perspectives into it Um as we go. So let me pause there. Go ahead gil. Um Two things, uh I didn't respond to the quilt metaphor at first, but one of the things I like about it is that it's inherently multimedia It's it's tactile, right? It's visual It's oral because the people sitting around quilting our community talking about whatever they talk about while they're quilting So that part of it is wonderful. The the challenge I hear jerry is is What gets left behind? How do we leave behind? How do we shape the leaving behind because This becomes just another one of the million shows Exactly a million podcasts without that. Um, I mean I email for I think about 42 years And i'm tired of it And I'm lost in it. I used to be I used to be a maestro. I'm just lost. I'm behind on everything It feels like a very ineffective way to build a conversation and coordinate with people. I'm just Just trying to keep up with this last if this is real thread Over the last few days has been has been tough and there's there's gems in here and for me So for me the gems are sort of dropping into the bit bucket and And I've had this feeling for a really long time like damn it That was a great post and every now and then I will copy the post out and save it I think many of us do like that when we see something great on email We copy it and try to put it somewhere ourselves. I often put it in my brain But because it was on a private list I make it a hidden thought So so I know that it's there, but nobody else is going to discover it, which is terrible So like indra's net is also an interesting metaphor here It's an old way of looking at things and there's kind of there's kind of like jewels within a net and the jewels are at the nodes of the connections of the net And these pearls could be kind of those jewels in a net of wisdom that we're that we're collecting up Pete is building massive wiki in a way that that builds it out of markdown files living on github and for those of you who Who haven't been following that thread markdown is a really really simplified form of of adding some information to text So so the web is built out of html mostly hypertext markup language markdown is a simpler version of that That lets you say this is a title. This is a bullet Things like that building from markdown on a shared platform like github, which is where Open source code goes, but a lot of other things besides open source code are going means that The standard means of findability and replicability are kind of just under under the hood, which is Really interesting Then if you take those primitive building blocks and you start building interesting things on top of that you can maybe we can create some really interesting ways of doing this and And Mondays there's a little call called free jerry's brain, which is part of ogm And we've been trying to figure out like what's the next platform. How do I you know? I'm not trying to say that everybody should be using the brain I'm saying the brain has a couple of attributes that really really work for me And that's why I got hooked on it other people use other kinds of tools How might we make these tools? Talk to each other better and talk to a separate data layer so that this data layer is persistent over time And so that the data so that when I improve a node that's about What's his name allen savouries We should graze more and more cattle on the land because it's good for the land when I add something there With my tools it should be enriched for someone else reaching in with their tools the way that A wikipedia page is improved by all of us communally so that the next person coming in sees. Oh good You know the new pope has been named and there's a wikipedia page for unfortunately him Go ahead cross Yeah, I mean my Thought has sort of evolved to and landed on this idea of innovations poke rich Because that the challenge really is to connect this practitioners were in the field were working there Who have no time for to spend hours in conversations and learnings and sharing information? I mean they are in the field working And so how how do we get best practice information? You know to to that cope and that's what we're working on with this founder fork community food systems And you can see how challenging that is right? I mean the Just just to to remove the distrust and to have people, you know really Accept and appreciate your intentions and then finally come to the point where They forgive you for stepping into something that was not quite right Because they start trusting you right at the whole thing is based on trust And so I would I would just And and I and I'm sure there are the Areas right whether that's The way your community does energy for example, right? There's so much opportunity not to share insights and knowledge and Things that are already best practices out there I see that this Citizen climate lobby and and business climate leaders because there are so many ideas floating, you know, where where they are Where we are now really in the mode of replicating knowledge And part of what I'm envisioning Klaus is that your innovation brokers old school I tried to in the chat. I tried to say old school and it came out old stool, which is terrible sounding But old school thing would be maybe we would have created a field manual for the innovation brokers And we would have handed them a book or a file or whatever and they would have gone into the field with that Or an almanac or god knows what middle school would be there's a database of things you can do and so forth I think the the new thing the new environment is What is this resource rich environment that the innovation brokers can dip into that includes Woven connected knowledge but includes. Hey, you're interested in doing this thing over here This project you saw that happened halfway around the world. You'd like to do it yourself Here's here's an implementation toolkit and here's a couple experts who know how to how to do it They they would love to help you if you want them to show up and here's some funders Who are looking for somebody who's leaning into fixing this kind of problem and that blend turns into some action on the ground somewhere Right, so I think the medium needs to be friendly to all those different kinds of layers or elements as we go And I don't think it's one uniform medium. I think it's a it's a it's a convergence of a whole series of Kind of blended I'm just going to call them webs of what we know right So I so I for me this the big quilt One of its sub project is to create And maybe it's one of the places we can start is to create a body of work that innovation brokers Live off and feed as they learn things Right that they're busy contributing to and part of part of this is like literacy and how to do that and and so forth any of the thoughts on quiltiness and Creating a show of some sort john and then eric You're muted john You're trying to find the unmute button No, no, you're having a different kind of problem shoot Until why don't you troubleshoot? You're unmuting do you want I don't think I can unmute you because we're not in my well, there we go good But now we can't hear you So you're successfully unmuted, but we actually are not hearing your your your voice Nope, maybe you can mine Could you could we play charades? That'd be awesome like forwards Sounds like John keep troubleshooting Fixed up and when we hear your voice, I'll go back to you. Sorry erica floor is yours Yeah, so One issue is Like in the weaving there's also something about platform weaving and everybody's got their own code structure Code language There's for instance, there's like a matrix which is a platform that brings together different Chattels But then if you go deeper into knowledge and knowledge sharing it really becomes a problem. So my Understanding until now is I want to build my own platform Because this will be way too challenging to bring everything together But at the same time I like it that there's people attending it But we're we're not near there and it's really important to understand where to put your energy. For instance trove and Massive wiki two completely different projects in terms of code. They could work together And it you could make it work in a way with apis And it's getting simpler and better to do apis and to make them share knowledge together. So there's hope But i'm not understanding if it's realistic and if it's the best place to put your time and energy So on fridays, there's a flotilla call which is vincent from trove pete michael's been showing up And a couple other people and they're busy the calls are intentionally Michael correct me if i'm wrong here, but they're intentionally kind of a white space between the projects And the intention is to talk through what each of the Sovereigns Or independence is trying to get done and what where they're aiming so that they might actually collaborate and share the load And connect well and work more seamlessly together And they're still working on that and as you said like they're building on different platforms in different ways There's a they're going about it in different ways, but they're but they're in the fruitful conversation to figure out what that middle space is I'd love to join the course. Yeah, so that sounds great Let's go in grid and then dug and then john and john are you back? I'm back. Oh, let's go john ingrid dug Okay, this may be This is implied by what you've been saying and so it may be obvious to everybody but just in case it's not that there's two levels of integration in the quilt metaphor that that I really like one is That there would be a physical quilt, but of course there would be an electronic quilt and you know The links between them and the updates to the electronic would eventually get into the physical That's very cool. I like I like that There's a similar thing on possibility which is implied by the the sort of taxonomy of elements that you went through jerry in other words that just as the electronic and then using the metaphor of quilt and linking to the old Reaches out to people who have an emotional attachment to the old And buffers their collision with the new similarly, uh the whole object of creating of restructuring the knowledge Then you you you talked about it in terms of you know, okay definition discovery implementation kit resource fundraising, but There's also the idea that you create that as a ramp. So in other words people can come in without You know, they can come in on the idea that oh Agriculture has been under considered. It's the effect is bigger than okay. Yeah, so There's something about me. Yeah Uh, totally. Absolutely. You know in other words this this pathway of to sophistication and pathway of clarification is intentionally ramped In in how it's done and that's specifically a technique both to not throw off The people who have trigger words say oh, if I see that trigger word Meet you know, I'm gone and also to you know, basically help people Grow in terms of their sophistication. So maybe all that was implied I got it from what you were saying, but I just want to make sure that that's Both both kinds of ramping are an explicit part of the design Um, absolutely, and I'm not sure how to how to conquer that But because one of the problems was showing up at something that's kind of done Like a systems diagram like when I look at complicated systems diagrams I am lost and the way I have access to them is when gene bellender or christina bowen Does the build and they say hey, it starts here with wolves eat rabbits And then it goes here and here and here and here and here and suddenly like you've got The ruby goldberg thing that actually describes a working system that's That that credibly describes a working system And then you're in but we need on ramps and we need we need to find Simple ways for ordinary people to go. I'm curious about this and then step in and some of that's going to be About finding a person who's also curious and exploring with them. Some of this is about forming learning cohorts and there's a piece of this Web this Indra's net, which is about and just learning an education. That's about how do we learn things? What do we know all of that kind of things? So let's go Sorry ingrid dug then gill Hey, um, I may be a little bit off base on this but I keep going back to the fact that people need A demonstration they need I mean going back old school to a video or a way to engage them or to pique their interests I think and especially if you want to make it a diverse group that you're speaking to and not just be scientists and academics and things but Yeah, I would just think you have to have some a really engaging Real-life demonstration of whatever you're talking about even if it's the most abstract thing like what you were talking about jerry To ramp it up just to bring it to reality in in people's minds and and whether that's like a video or it's a A lecture that um, you know, entire teases them and then brings them into the Let's them know the different pieces of it. I just think making it a simple accessible way to bring people in but Um, absolutely everything you said and a simple way to hack our way toward that might be To set up a couple of the early show episodes to have meaningful conversations around stuff that matters to people broadly not like white guys who are who are technicians um and then in those conversations to do both heart and mind where Because a huge piece of this is about trust and about just relationships and about coming back together in the community and figuring some of that stuff out So if we just if this is just an intellectual conversation about solutions to problems We've already kind of missed the boat But if we can build some trust and then start pointing to how systems work and what solutions are and then model them in the call So screen share do this do that and have the artifacts at the end And then begin building a series of episodes where after the episode we actually do some some post processing You know, we we fix it in post as they say but but we actually then Begin working through the artifacts and how they are made accessible How anybody else can contribute to them the way people contribute to wikipedia or bodies of open source code today By using similar methods And then then we can boil that down to a several different three minute videos That that make the point and have some of those different elements together and are easy to Easy to process filter and are are interesting to attract people to to join the the party. Does that does that make some sense? With action plans, you have to give people a lead. You you can't just leave it open I don't think I think you have to direct people a little bit to help them to get where they need to go But yeah, absolutely. So what you're describing is steps that should be in the project plan for the big quilt Which I appreciate a lot Um, sorry, we had Doug then Gil Okay, I have the uncanny feeling and I wonder if other people are feeling something like this That what we're talking about is really too slow to have any impact on the rapid unfolding of real events Uh in my fantasy The only action that counts right now is uh attacking the headquarters of the oil companies It's gonna happen But short of that is there anything that's actually going to be effective and I feel That that we are just Jerry you just use the phrase miss the boat Uh, I don't know if there is a boat, but we're missing it. Um, thanks Doug and And My own feeling is I see lots of people on fire with like great urgency to do different things And I see that we are incapable as a society to actually come together and do things So i'm trying to figure out a way to build enough trust that we can actually do things in some degree of unison Without perfect coordination and certainly without command and control from the top But but how might we come back together and and sort of regulate and unify and coordinate our actions? Well and to do that we need to have shared artifacts to get in there And i'm sorry. We haven't built them very well in all of civilization up until now Uh, but but it's kind of time to start so we have but they're What if we tried having that conversation amongst ourselves? Uh, which conversation do you mean the uh, where are we? What should we do? We've sort of been doing that and we've been doing that in this frustrated. I mean this But let's do it. Let's do that with the with with prototyping the tools that we're talking about here Let's kick OGM up a notch to something else. I want to follow up on what Doug said, but it's the first a couple of points from along the way the the Systems mapping as a process not as an artifact carrier is critically important and you know watching somebody build that map is great What's even better than that is building that together with a diverse group of people Yes, they call it like scott span that innate strategies will do for example and they've done that with you know At least dozens if not hundreds of people from across the region working on a theme and building together And iteratively asking people what what's missing here? Is this complete to you is this accurate to you and keep on building the map until everybody looks at it and says That seems about right And you've built a constituency in a community for a very different kind of engagement and action So big big thumbs up on that one on the information broker I have an immune response there because it sounds like it sounds like a commercial activity Which of course it needs to be but it's also an amateur activity You know from the root of love that we all do and so it's something it needs to happen But not only be monetized And yet support it so that's a design challenge to throw in there Back to what Doug said. It's a good question and Attacking the headquarters of the oil companies is a good answer But you know, what does that mean? I mean you can sit in at the headquarters of the oil companies. That's great There's you know, there's what 70 Seven, you know 100 companies that are responsible for 70 percent of emissions on the planet So maybe it's not it's mostly oil companies but not only so let's take that list What is attacking them me? One thing it means is shut them down And the usual way to think about those things is regulations but another way to think about it is is as Stranding those assets buy them out and close them And this is a proposal we made about the coal industry a dozen years ago. It's actually happening through economic forces, but you know at that point the When I first started looking at this the market cap of the coal industry Was less than the value than the cost of the subsidies to maintain that industry And you ask any business person or any Joe or Jill on the street If you have a company that is costing you more money to keep alive then it's worth what would you do and the obvious answer is to shut it down So attacking the oil companies means killing the subsidies, which is already momentum on It means some mass of capital buying them out and shutting them down It means boycotting them perhaps it means shaming the people involved in them perhaps, but it also has to mean A very rapid safety net to transition people out of their dependence on oil Because this means you know people in Boston who will freeze to death if there's no oil So you can't just turn the switch off And if we look at the infrastructure bill moving through congress this week You know the climate action piece is well, trust us. We'll get to that later Well, maybe you will I'm not so sure So my question back to Doug and everybody is what does attacking those 70 companies look like? And and last I just forgot to say it before in terms of thinking about platforms and all that stuff that we've been talking about We need to recognize that this is a group of extreme life forms on this call You know, we are unusual people in the way that we play and talk and dance around information And so we're it sounds like we're having a two level conversation here one is what will serve us And sustain us in the work that we're committed to in the world And second is what can grow out from this that can be accessible more broadly to more regular kind of folks Who are more inclined to you know watch sitcoms and play with massive wiki Thanks, bill. I agreed um And when we start getting into the Like whether or not to assault the headquarters of the oil companies and buy them out or and strand the rest is all that I sit here aching that I wish we had a visual where we were connecting and collecting this and You know, and I've got I've got that particular topic about shutting down the oil companies I've got all the oil companies. I've got a bunch of stuff. I don't have that So I would have to slow down the conversation just around that little spot go back and do that And I would hope that there'd be a dozen people doing similar things with different tools with a different perspective from mine And that would be really juicy and interesting to do So let's go to claus and michael Yeah, I I think we are in a strategic paradox And I'm particularly seen as in the food system because that's what I what I know more about You're on the one hand to have an existing system No, a status quo system that has an enormous inertia to maintain its business models But those business models can't really continue because they're so destructive But on the other hand You can't really change a system like this unless we first of all change the social system that means physical change has to start with the social systems community level really to To help people first of all to to secure themselves food shelter, right belonging So to secure themselves then they can go and start repairing the environment and Restoring the ecosystem and protecting themselves So my favorite saying is a desperate man will cut down the last tree to live another day, right? So for as long as people are Getting more desperate and look at what's happening right now. There are millions of people at risk when getting kicked out of their homes So you have more homeless camps coming around So what are we doing to absorb that and turn that into a constructive energy? Because right now we have people who are Who are desperate, right? I mean they they are they are Speaking my wife works at a local food bank. I mean she comes back in tears every day With what you know, she sees A family that got kicked out with two kids living in their car I mean it's incredible, right? It thinks that that we that we don't acknowledge and so unless we fix that first We can't get to any of these environmental issues. It just it just doesn't work And there is no focus on on and no willingness really to fix the social systems And and help people to secure themselves Um, absolutely Klaus and I think the reason I the reason I try to care equally about heart and mind Is that so much of this is about mistrust and politics and and a lot of people are suffering because We're wedged politically and and a bunch of it. It's in somebody's interest to have refugees moving around and to have strife in the world, etc So you need to figure that out Michael before I pass the floor to you. I just want to comment on your comment in the chat Which is like I'm trying to figure out how to model this when I say prototype. I mean The exercise of the practice of doing this thing out of found parts like like hey, here's a platform that I've been using for a long time Let's use that. Let's approach that platform and see if they'll add this feature If the feature doesn't exist and we can't figure out how to do that now, what do we do? right, so so so I think I think a piece of this is is seeing some way clear to prototype a way of being in the world of sharing data and and being on a collective inquiry And being open to alternate opinions, but then getting past some of the same arguments in some way And I'm hoping that this might transform how politics and government work how education works Maybe how science works all those kinds of things if it's done, right? So I think maybe hold the word prototype loosely and I think that conversation is super interesting So off to you. Yeah, um, just for for people who aren't looking at chat. I was I was saying I was worrying about the idea of creating prototypes and and ogm inventing new things and standing up this and that Just that, you know, this is as as gill was saying an incredible group of smart and usual people but, you know, we get together and You know, we talk and and there are things that we say and jerry, you know what you were saying about shared memory and the lack of it at the beginning of Well, a little while ago very true, you know, but we're not the only people who have come to this realization and The number of attempts out there I just feel like we're not searching for another and how we can be the most effective we can be in You know, we were having a conversation about this yesterday Jerry and stacey and I about What ogm can do and Not be Adding to the number of standards But like supporting things that already exist And is it that, you know, we are A nonprofit that's pulling in money that's identifying projects that exist and supporting them or getting them to interact with each other as opposed to like being another thing Yeah, I can't can just comment but our wheel is rounder and Four spokes You know, there are just there there are so many many people doing the things that we're doing and I know we're smart, but you know, we're we're not smarter than everybody else and How can we not You know, we've been talking for you know, I've only been part of it for Six months and I know you guys have been at it Some of you for a year before that and You know, I I'm sorry. I'm A loss for what to say and I don't mean to be negative. I I want to be Positive about what we do and I feel like it It can't be invention. We haven't invented anything yet. And if we start trying to decide, you know Now what we're going to invent and then execute on it That is too late and and there are people in more action and and you know, plus I think, you know It is you're almost an exception here in that you're You know doing something that we're supporting and that's cool But you know, we're not saying oh, that's a good idea Let's all come up with a new way to do it among us Prototype it, you know, we're supporting you and doing what you do um And you know the the funding Um notion is the simplest one I can think of, you know, maybe there are other things that we can do That are ways to support others But I don't think it's us coming up with the better idea Even if it's not prototype even if it's just an idea and then convincing other people to do it Just about anything we can come up with I feel like there are already people out there doing it. Let's Figure out a way to support them Um, I think this is a great and deep question We need to stay on and it's a frustrating question because it's like how do we go about doing what we're trying to do I typed the meta currency project in the chat because I've been friends with Arthur Brock and Eric Harris-Bron And a few other people for a really long time and I remember getting a briefing on their meta currency project at least 15 years ago And holo chain, which was probably the more familiar term holo and holo chain project is a is a calving off of just one hunk Of their meta currency project when blockchain got hot because they're like, you know what? We have a cleverer way of doing blockchain and so there's there's a project So I have watched for several decades as incredibly smart people had a complete idea about how to fix the universe That still is not a thing in the world And I'm just I'm just stating this because it's frustrating and like these are brilliant well-intentioned folks Who've thought very deeply about how to fix stuff and their their their stuff their platform isn't yet a thing that's rolling in the world properly And I don't know that it will be and and I hope it will be and I'd love to and I'd love to help And I'd love to see what insights from their work fit Who what other what other insights and and how to be a part of making this thing actually come into being and stand up As maybe part of the platform we need now And then i'll say also when claus is talking about innovation brokers I think he's innovating He's he's suggesting a novel idea called an innovation broker and it's a modeled a little bit on peace core or other sorts of things where There were volunteers who knew something about whatever and showed up to help Okay, but it's it's a new thing and it would have new kinds of roles and all of that And so I think that that's interesting innovation and I want to help stand that up and make it make it move in the world so I So I think there's this very interesting question between what's new what's existing And I I don't think ogm has the resources or the desire to go build one platform to rule them all or anything like that But I think we see something That maybe a few others see but not a lot and if we can help Model that and prototype it and then let others perfect it and make money on it or whatever else I think that's a a big win for us So let me let me go back to the queue ken eric stacey Doug, I saw you raise your hand. Did you want to comment on something Jerry was saying before? Oh, sorry, Doug Well, just very quickly. I think one of the things that's holding us back Is people hold including us for a win-win solution to where we are that is something that takes us towards the future That's better than where we are The reality is I think most of us have concluded there's going to be lots of losses In this system and we're just reluctant to talk about that Um, and there's a whole group of people Jim bandell and the deep adaptation crowd are saying exactly that and and like that's one of the groups We would need to at some point approach and talk to so Agreed, uh ken go ahead So michael, uh, something you said uh sparked a thought in my mind and it goes back Some 20 years to when I was running coaching cafes I just In the newly minted certified coach and I was working at the world cafe and I was bringing together All these coaches from my school in the ventures west to talk about what they were learning and out there in the world and You know what this distinction between practice field and field of practice and ogm can be both For me, it is a practice field I come here to engage in deep conversation with thoughtful people To improve my work in my field of practice And that's one way of looking at ogm and there's also the other reverse lens of In what ways is ogm actually a field of practice? Because we have these converges this convergence of all these different people from Different walks of life different abilities different Interests, you know, and we are in fact creating a practice field here as well And any field of practice so I never know exactly where I am in ogm whether i'm you know, am I improving myself from my Work in the world or is this is this my work in the world? And I just wanted to throw that out as a provocative lens for looking at this You know the thing I had Breakfast the other day with bob horn and we were discussing this paper on hyper objects and and how to How to get people Engaged when there's you know the role of the media has traditionally been to explain things But now the media has been co-opted and very very complex topics are out there that require some kind of Fairly neutral person or entity that can put out the information and recognizing that Because the science is not settled around a lot of things. There's going to be arguments There's going to be things, you know counterpoints points and counterpoints And most people are in a simple binary mindset of it's either true. It's not right So how do we you know, what role can ogm play in shifting that mindset from binary to I don't know what the the word is to to a range to a spectrum. All right I just finished bob. Put your hands in this book on full spectrum thinking, which I highly recommend, you know Gaming is one way Maybe ogm wants to start to invite jane mcgonaglin and start talking about gaming Because there's a lot of ways that we could Develop games that would develop these kinds of capacities and people to hold Multiplicities of of truths or or semi truths in mind and say well, what's useful based on this? You know what we're seeing here what we know what's really useful from where I am How can we move forward with this? So just a few thoughts popping up in my head Thank you ken. That's really really generous. I appreciate it. I'm eric and stacey These he hasn't talked so that stacey go first It sort of ties into what ken was just saying I'm just sitting here thinking that the major shift that needs to happen is this way of thinking It's the connecting piece that's missing. So if we go back to the beginning of the call we were talking about The you know, so there are people that don't want to eat meat But they really want the meat taste and as claus mentioned that you know the production of this, you know protein based You know the plant-based food is not good And so it's like yes, it's good to do it No, don't eat it and then it wasn't until I heard jerry say that there's another way to make this kind of Plant-based meat that I thought that's what you know, like that's the missing piece instead of saying no, you don't need meat You don't need the taste What about if you put the effort into getting the people that are making this plant-based meat to do it differently? so it's sort of like Not either or but you know combine both Thank you stacey. And there's a couple things Where I think it's like not like slavery kind of not either or And racism and bigotry and sexism and all those kinds of things And at the ends they those things get fuzzy, but really those are not too not too either or I think they're pretty binary Even though we seem to be having those fights daily in the press and in politics and all that but But those things to me are like can we just can we just sort of solve for those? But everything else can be complexified. There can be clever solutions found I studied I had the great luck of studying for a little while under russell a cough one of the inventors of systems thinking when I was at work and he used to He used to talk about dissolving problems and he gave us a couple stories that like stuck in my head one of them was His he was at a consulting firm and his neighbor had a project for the city of london Where the conductors were hauling the bus drivers for the city bus system out to the curb and beating them up Like there was there was like this is really bad and it turns out and I'll shorten the story It turns out that the bus drivers were being paid to hit every stop on time The conductors were being paid to collect every fare on the bus and at rush hour The conductors couldn't make their way through the bus fast enough to do it And russell's solution to the problem which he sort of gave to his buddy whose project This was was at the start of rush hour have the have the conductors step off the bus and collect all the fares at the stops And at the end of rush hour have them step back on the buses And i'm like Shit that's like so smart like it cost nothing It was just like smart he stepped outside the system and figured something else out And there's not always a simple story like that But but a cop these things these stories that he would tell over and over again were called a cough fables There's actually a book titled a cough fables And he would soften up his audiences by telling two days worth of stories like that Before engaging them in brainstorming and thinking differently about creating a new mission statement And doing a bunch of other stuff in a process called idealized redesign Which I got to participate in once in argentina a long time ago But anyway, I love things like that And we're not in a place or a space where we can even have those kinds of conversations and get to the to the clever solutions to thorny problems And to inspect and critically look at the knock on effects the unintended consequences that like all this stuff You know the more we mess with systems the more we have unintended consequences And you know, there's like geo engineering Let's let's put up a Dyson sphere outside the earth that we can then control like the reflectivity of like seriously Uh To the scale with which we think we're imagining playing with some of the some of the global systems Because the situation is so calamitous and we have to act quickly is deeply frightening to me And and by the way, there's some billionaires who might be just about to go build some of those things Despite whatever we might want to say and that's interesting too So eric, I think you're uh next and if you if you are raising your hand again, leave them up But if you've already spoken, please take your hands down Okay, so Reaction to Michael before he said do we need to invent something new? And then there was like a weird thing going on for me like Yes, absolutely. We do need to invent something new. We need to bring it all together though It's not like we need to invent a new golden egg that solves everything It's just one simple solution. No, it's kind of this meta thinking puzzling it together But in a way that it works and that's immensely difficult There is social social processes going into it. It's interaction design It's about thinking how people actually use software. How does it work like your brain? How does it make choices online? How does it deal with information visually? How does the database behind work all that kind of stuff is a big big big puzzle And if I hear that there's other people doing all these interoperable things then yes I would like to talk about them. I don't necessarily trust they will find the answer Because it's a it's a difficult puzzle. So that puzzle that's the new thing But it's and then another level is how do I talk to those people that I don't agree to? At first when I I saw Michael started it it's two times you but it's exactly a point that I want to raise like What when I searched first saw you enter the space I thought oh once again someone with his own platform Like he's just trying to do his own thing Do I want to be honest with him? Do I really want to say that he's just yet another guy with yet another idea? But now you're saying the exact opposite actually Like saying no we should actually work all together. I think that's also what Jerry has been saying You give like subtle hints during the calls. I think you were saying this in january and we're saying long before as well But it's a difficult process and I just want to make it an exercise also in these calls to to understand how do we talk to each other to make ourselves open up but also It's uncomfortable To say these kind of things to each other and yeah That's that's maybe a repetition of things I said before but I think it's an ongoing process Yeah So Eric thank you And I would just love us to just go into a moment of quiet just to ponder where we are and what Eric just said and and how this fits because You you put your finger on a really important dynamic in our process here So let's I'll I'll bring us back out of a little bit of silence I used to attend quaker meetings regularly when I lived in connecticut and I once attended a separate meeting about How quakers make decisions business decisions and it was held in a bookstore and the guy teaching at one point asked us a question And then we were all like ah, and then he said why don't we just go into silence for three minutes? with this question and I was like How the hell did I get to be 35 years old and nobody's ever given me time to think before answering a question And I was always like Arnold Horschach like me me me Oh And it was like a big enlightenment and I'm like, why does why is this not happening more? And and one of the things that's frustrating for me about what we've been doing Is that we don't have time to slow it down? As Doug says the house is on fire and basically about to go off the cliff over the waterfalls, you know It's like the larson's crisis clinic cartoon, which I adore Like like the planet is doing that right now. We're busy doing that to ourselves And ironically in order to solve it. We actually have to slow things down a bit And we have to rebuild trust and we have to do all these other things because otherwise I don't think any of these initiatives actually work I I There was a republican press conference this morning about the hearings And I heard like two people talk and scolese came up and started talking and I was like Wow, his lips are flapping but like I disagree with every syllable. He's saying it's really astonishing And that's his job is to to basically stop this juggernaut of of hey, we're trying to actually help people And I think part of it was about the infrastructure bill and all that and I'm like We're not going to get any place if we're busy if the house is completely divided in such a perilous way So so More of that we have done Zero check-ins and we've had a delightful conversation for an hour. I would like actually to To to unless somebody has a Thing to go back into this conversation with right now and that would be great I'd love to just go into check-in mode for the remaining half hour And take us out that way does that work and julian? Thanks for being on the call. I know you have to switch calls if you wanted to check in real quick before bolting I was going to say most of this week up in cat herding and I'm actually being quite literal Tried to introduce cat number two to the household and cat number one doesn't want a cat number two But the house has been like a DMZ the last few days Sounds like fun a young new cat Yeah, they're both 16 weeks old. Oh, okay. Wow. Well, good luck with that All right. See you next week. Thanks julian Phil Yeah, um, I think it's been a great Uh, conversation so far and kind of to echo what eric was saying I I like the idea of the big quilt. I think it's a great kind of Front end for people to engage with ogm externally to people to come into the conversation To get new perspectives in our internal conversation Um, and then I think the next part of it is defining what the other aspects of ogm are like what what projects we want to support what What initiatives we want to support? And what like the small victories are because we do talk we do tend to talk very high level and very aspirational We're trying to figure out like right in the next month. What can we do in the next two weeks? What can we do? Um to as dog said make immediate change uh and to to make substantial concrete progress I'm i'll just leave it at that And I'll add that Tuesday mornings at 7 a.m. Pacific. We have a build ogm call which is meant to be More pragmatic more getting things done more I think we're slowly making our way towards objectives and key results okay ours and things like that but painfully slowly but but we I would very much like to do that What's exciting about claus's project right now is that it gives us an opportunity to actually stand stuff up And begin moving on prototyping. What does an innovation broker look like and seeing, you know What are the component parts of that? How does it work? Etc. So so we have that as well Um, who else would like to check in I'm going to ask for Volunteers for a moment Failing volunteers. I'm going to ask ken to go first. I'll go ken ingrid john You got me in the middle of Get my tea. I was sorry. No worries. So, um I am having a very interesting time Um Thanks to matt saia who I think a lot of you know He invited me to be part of a facilitation team That I've been working on now for about a month There's a global financial services company Who I cannot name because I'm under mda and their Matt's company teamed up with this financial services company and another company who designed a an 80 to 90 minute presentation on diversity and inclusion And I would say that have done 10 calls now They're uh, let's see Probably this is all at the director level. We haven't gone down into the organization yet And so the majority of people are white. There have been some people of color And a small number of women usually two maybe three women most on the call Versus eight to 10 men Um, and it's about impact versus intent and it's really interesting to see how people Hang on to their intent. So one of the examples what they've done is They did a bunch of deep interviews inside the company came up with number of scenarios that have been Anonymized and they're enacted by voice actors. So one of the things is whenever I give a presentation inevitably somebody comes up to me and says wow You are so articulate In a surprised voice as if a black woman couldn't be articulate And so people are saying but but it's met as a compliment I mean my intention is a compliment and trying to get people to understand the industry and impact the intent Is much harder than I thought it would be. Um, I have folks, especially People over 50 they're really hanging on to I don't understand Why telling someone that they're articulate is a problem and you know the distinction between You're inside your bubble that says I'm giving you a compliment and you're not stepping into their shoes It says I've been raised in a culture. I've been put down my entire life And whenever I speak up I get told wow, you're so articulate. It doesn't feel like a compliment And I'm just really struck by by how challenging it is to get people to recognize this one simple thing And that's kind of filtering through the rest of my consciousness around the other work that we're doing in the world of Shifting people out of their their bubble of but this is what I'm intending, you know That's just been really interesting and I will say that probably 80 percent of the folks are getting it. So there's there's some who are just really, you know stuck but There's a bunch of other stuff in there, but that's been the most interesting the impact versus intent and for me, it's one of the Um One of the key things if we can start to to recognize Wow, I intended something to go one way in a very different way I I ask people I tell people the best thing you can do if you get feedback is to listen non defensively Don't try to justify yourself get really curious and say thank you. I didn't realize that What else can I do and in this instance? It's you know, don't say you're articulate say wow that presentation you gave You wove things together in a way. I'd never thought about before and I had this question You know, I really learned something that way they know you're paying attention and they get the compliment without Having it feel like it's denigrating in some way. So, um, that's a big part of my life at the moment I'm back doing some more work for the census, which is extremely boring I'm not I had one woman who refused to talk to me. So I called her building manager She refused to talk to me and went to the property manager And they said I can't give information out unless my boss is here My boss isn't here. Who's your boss? They gave me the name the person doesn't even work at the company anymore So I am totally getting the fucking run around You know, I I'm I'm having a hard time with with the way people are handling that but otherwise life is good You know, I have an I'm using gray water to water my garden because we have this horrible drought here and Just trying to get through my days and and find ways to smile Thank you, Kim um two things about The conversations you were describing one is one of the things I loved about early online text worlds was that they masked identity And it's one of the cool things about games where you get to go in and pick an avatar and I wish it were made compulsory for every white man to have to be in one of these worlds as somebody who's not a white man Because they would very quickly figure out what a what a shit show that is um And I think so so there's this idea of walking a mile and someone else's shoes inadvertently accidentally In some other way and I think that that's a really powerful thing I think I think firsthand experience is is awesome And if you can simulate that in some way, I think that's great And then the the second thing I wanted to add was nonviolent communication Terribly named wonderful process One of the things that's lovely about it is that it requests its process is That person a says something person b is is asked to mirror what they said to respond by saying I think this is what I heard you say and correct me if I've got the format wrong But this is what I heard you say and then the act of actually saying without agreeing to what the other person said The act of having to think through and paraphrase puts you in their shoes for a moment and begins to soften The distance or the separation between you at least that's the theory and I think it kind of works Because this is a really it's a very useful process But those are two ways of getting people to start to Experience other people's lives in some way that might might actually be helpful So and and can I think you're fully aware of all those things but Does that play in another book in the in the chat called Taking the war out of our words powerful non defensive communication Which is different than non violent communication. It's Sharon Ellison who's over in Berkeley and I Had the opportunity to go to her house a few times and and she comes out of Child advocacy. She's a sort of advocate in court for children and Really has done a great job of distilling how to how to speak non defensively, which is different than non violently and Really worth checking out There's also something called clear language Which is interesting and all of these things All of these things are resources that all there exists in a shared memory that we could be able to sort of dip into as if we were conversation brokers or facilitators or whatever like like like As as we share these sorts of things and what I do is I after these show after these conversations I go back and I curate what I can in my brain, but I seldom have the time to actually do it Give it justice. So if we were doing this collectively, we'd be better off Ingrid John Stacy Doug So hey, I am I'm about to end my job my Grind this week and so I'm super excited to have a little time to think and not be bogged down with that for a little while And then Actually next week I will I mean, uh, yeah next week. I'm going to attempt to walk the Camino. We'll see where I go with that but to have a little bit of time to recover from this year, which has been a really Really tough year to be honest to be an expat alone in a foreign country During a pandemic. So it's been a hell of a year in a lot of ways The other thing I want to ask all of you is I know I spoke a tiny bit about this in my very infrequent speaking with the group about something that I am building that's involving agriculture agriculture art and innovation and I would love to see if anyone is interested in Taking a look at what I have put together and giving me some feedback since you are all in the sort of investment world or Agriculture world. I love what claus is doing. That's definitely a part of my project so It's uh, it's something that I'm finding Is being spoken out about a lot is building communities a very specific community. So when you were all talking about building these platforms and and apis and then linking all these things in a sort of high level space me as a Sort of a doer and a project manager immediately. I want to put that into action I want I feel like even small actions That you can get into this paralysis of analysis, right? You've got so many smart people in this group There's so much going on in the world right now That literally if you don't put some even a small action into A physical action we are doing this And it becomes it will manifest other things. So for me, I feel like uh The deck that I've been working on in this community idea is actually um a prototype for Building a physical space where you could test ideas and bring the right people together in a disruptive way And a lot of diversity because I we all know right diversity is the thing that sparks innovation You can have the same like-minded people. I don't care how smart they are you have to put in A lot of different pieces for the puzzle to To produce something so anyway, just a lot of things I think about I always get inspired with these meetings, but um I want to do something now I feel like I might have a little bit of space now to think about it And um, I hope that no one will mind if I If I send you something and you take a look and and uh, hey, I've been through hollywood I can take any kind of abuse that comes out or whatever But if you're really um, and I live in the Netherlands so you can be fully honest and I would like to see sort of You know And it's along the similar lines of of everything that you guys have talked about in bits and pieces so anyway throwing that all out there um a little bit of spaghetti on the wall and um, yeah Preparing you for maybe uh, yeah an approach. So that's all thank you. Thank you. That's awesome. Are you on the matter most chat? I forget Uh Gosh, I'm not sure because I have not kept up. I see the emails that come through but yes So so depending on your preferences you there's a couple people who've offered to read If you want to send individually, but you could also post a link to a document on like the food channel and on matter most We can make sure you get you know get there and that gives you a broader audience for of people to reflect on on the ideas So we could figure out what the what the right channel is But but if you just want to send it to individuals, that's fine too. Whatever your preferences I might wait a little bit But yes, uh, yeah eventually for sure. Okay, so for now you've got a couple people to send it to you right away Okay, great, but don't wait. We have a team working on those things and go join the team I know i'm i'm super excited actually. Yeah, because we're of like minds on on quite a few things. Yeah That's cool. I also wanted to point out. There's a thing called the writer's workshop process which is uh a way to um A way to have a group of people Work on a text and make it better without insulting the author It's it's designed in a way to sort of protect the author's kind of ego And uh, there's a series of questions. The author sits outside the circle. Everybody reads everybody else's Contributed pieces to the to the writer's workshop and then one at a time The author of the piece sits outside the circle and then everybody talks about what the work seems to be What would make the work better? And then the author is only allowed to ask questions at the end and it's it's never about What moron wrote this piece of work is like not permitted in this format It's it's like how do we make this work more of what it seems to want to be? And also I for me personally, I want to know if you are getting the same thing out of what I've written If you are taking away what my idea is that's super important. Yeah, love that um, cool So we had uh, I gotta scroll back up. Uh, john stacey dug Hey, uh Well, I I'm being asked to do things. Uh, I'm doing still doing some editing around identity and I don't I don't particularly agree with where that's going, but I'm trying to You know cooperate with it. Anyway, uh in terms of my own work There's there's an intersection between several things that we just mentioned I've done the writer's workshop thing in the writer's workshop several times. It's it's really good And then there's the budget process, which you may remember my talking about participatory budgeting as a way to deflect people who Very sharply disagree But just going to say so how much money do you want to put down and where do you want to put it and all that kind of stuff? We need some more of those we need something that's not as doesn't require the degree of commitment of the writer's workshop and doesn't isn't as um Because you just can't do a budget for everything, you know, but but you do have a situation where Like I can get a bubble browser and I can bring up two websites that are Take the same data and do weirdly different things about it And I'm trying to I'm trying to think of what is something like the budget process that would engage people Who disagree in a way that's interesting enough that they will stay with it But is playful enough and and role protected enough that they won't Go actively go after each other with pitchfork um I'm noodling in that space and anybody has any any ideas. Please send them along. Thank you Thanks, john Eric did you want to reply to that? Yes on the whole processing Because I before I said like what about old school meeting notes And then I had a second thought I think it's good if we have Something which is one image that we come back to every week and we build on the image, but we can't have more like uh something like a mind map or A kind of meter, but we kind of look at uh, where were we last week? And then we we don't need need to build all the call through on it but Like all these processes that were named now that we could use they are in there And then we like okay, we talked about this last week What will what we'll do now as next steps on these exact insights that we had Other otherwise we risk rehashing a bit too much and not really building effectively on them Thanks, Eric Uh, let's go stacey dug fill and we're getting close to the end of our call time Yeah, um, I'm really interested to read ingrid's about ingrid's project And I just really want to say the most important thing I think is that trust and connection piece and all the other problems that I hear like ken talking about or whatever It really boils down to that And there is no quick way to do it. It happens one connection at a time. I really believe that and that might Be disappointing to think about but but that really makes the difference and it lasts and it actually does go quick You know if you think of the old prel commercial and you'll tell two friends and so on and so on Those are all one connection at a time. That's all I have to say I agree with everything you just said except maybe the one connection at a time part because sometimes An action happens in public view that suddenly that suddenly escalates trust or suddenly Or suddenly somebody does something stupid and you can feel the trust level in a room just just drop Right and so there's a there's a collective nature to some of this trust thing But but by and large the building of trust is like my favorite my favorite social change technology is taking somebody by the hand to try something new I think I met really in terms of like people getting offended by things, you know How offended I get it's something that somebody says depends on how much I trust who they are where they're coming from and their intentions exactly totally Doug then film Okay, I I'm thinking back over our meetings and whether we've ever had a serious conversation about scenarios My memory says no I think the most likely scenario is that things are going to fall apart And then there will be emergent phenomena that we cannot predict So the question is how to be flexible and ready to help out in that circumstance Um, that's worth like several calls in and of itself that that couple sentences. Do you want to just drift a little bit on it? Well, uh It starts with when I feel lost I like to go to scenarios, but in the sense of Where are we? How did we get here? What can happen and what should we do? It's a framework that I trust with myself Uh, and I think we're surrounded by emergent phenomena right now And uh, it it's too much to sort out But something will happen Guaranteed, uh, let's be prepared to participate in it I really like that approach Doug. Thank you Um, phil Yeah, um I like that as well like one thing that just sparked for me is you saying I don't remember if we've talked about this and It's one thing. I think we can focus on this week to week is How we enact best practice and how we are an example for people who want to work in knowledge and facilitate knowledge and facilitate sharing making sure that Our meetings and our knowledge and all that is being documented or standardized or organized in some sort of way that we can share as a blueprint Um for other organizations looking to do similar things because there's I know we record our meetings. There's just so much I guess lost by either missing a meeting or Or not being having time to review the video like there's How we make like if Doug was curious about this one topic How could he look back over our meetings and see where we've discussed that before would be an interesting thing to explore And At one point way early max harper Took our transcript of one of our calls and mapped it in miro because he's a miro black belt coder and that was really interesting and you could easily envision and A decade ago. I was at a meeting where the meeting was videotaped and and then later There was a transcript that was time-stamped to the video You kind of go back and forth and that that whole experiment just disappeared Not not available anymore. Why that's not a standard feature everywhere. I don't know And I just want to I'll come to you in a sec I just want to go back Because dug your your your questions cascading through my head I think one of the things that we can do and again, we've we've threatened to do this Haven't ever really done it well, but we've been doing it really in little in little bite-sized pieces so far Is connecting communities in a trusted way so that by the time unexpected things happen We actually know whom to reach for and we can work together and not have to like look around because There's this old saying you don't find any atheists in foxholes because everybody's praying to god. It's like, you know God, please don't let me die It's too late by the time you're in battle to go start to build these kinds of bridges because there will be people who lack resources and are angry and are Whatever it is and we have to figure out how to bridge these various communities in ways so that when Bad shit happens our assumption is that they have good intent coming back to us and saying hey this happened We need we need some help And I think that that some I think that one of the most useful things we might be able to do is In the process of this inquiry and of weaving a big quilt or something like that To actually leave behind the trail of new connections of trust that are usable And flexible in in moments of emergency And I'm forgetting. Uh, sorry gila was going to go back to you. Um, yeah, thanks very uh, just briefly Michelle holiday did I uh zoom call yesterday ken was on oh, you were there also weren't you yes And she did a wonderful thing this morning She sent out a google doc with a transcript of the conversation and a transcript of the chat And invited people to to pick a color and and highlight and add it and highlight the things that stood out for them And that strikes me as an interesting first step maybe in combination with matter most To let us take another layer of work on what we do here not just highlight what we like but Highlight potential actions. Maybe have a template alongside where we could distill things out and translate them into some other form So interesting experiment there that we might want to take a look at enough. You've seen it yet this morning I have not not made it through my emails yet. Yeah to It's in messenger. Yeah, oh good. Okay. Yeah, that's right Stacy You were there too messengers not letting me respond for some reason. So I gotta figure that out with michelle Doug's pushing a lot of buttons for me this morning. Thank you for doing that And you know in in in the emergence of of shit and fans and so forth. I think the question is not just What can we do to take care of the world and the things that we care about in the world? But also what can we do to take care of ourselves and each other? Because we're going to be caught up in the mess too And you know some of that is more present for some of us than for others of us, but It could get crazy and how do we how do we support ourselves in that in that physical world tangible way? Not just in these conversations together Thanks gail, uh michael eric You good Are you muted still sorry I was not Not realized I was I didn't have the cue filled out. I've I've forgotten who's gone on the call. So I'm Just checking. Do you want to check in? No, thanks. Okay, cool. Um, eric in class Okay. Um Yeah, I I'm trying to figure out how to move forward In the sense of Um What are the potential partners I could work with where could I get money? Um, how could I get fundraising? And I love that the word fundraising has been named And maybe that's something If somebody together with me could hold this thread of okay Fundraising how do we do this for oj me kind of things? It's all I've already seen it past in kiko lab and also in between in conversations But it's so important If it's part of how do we take care of ourselves like so many people don't do this Even don't come to these talks. I think because they're doing their day job and this is Even more information for our brain But if this would be paid for them that would be much easier, I guess and so, um, I was also thinking before like, oh, maybe I could get a chariot job somewhere And I've been thinking about it several times because I think if you are in the right place You would be amazing. I think you would be an amazing consultant in some places For instance, we're trying Yeah, uh reels partners is just one tip I don't know if you've heard of them Which one reels partners, I'll put it They feel yeah in the chat. Thanks Oh reels. Yes. I know about them Yeah, they might be a good place for you to start your job one day, but um So I would like to make this a running conversation topic that comes up every week Maybe for a brief moment if possible or every few weeks To talk about the money part in the fundraising and how we can get money for the things We really actually want to do besides the day job that Maintains us. Yeah, I think that's the main Thing that I want to say right now Many more things, but yeah, exactly exactly my brain's buzzing right now Also, I think you'll have the last word on this call. Yeah Yeah, we had We had a really good week last week in that we have been able to sign up two more casters the clinics one from With Trisha from Costa Rica and one with Cristiana from crease who has Who lives in a remote village? She was a heartbreaking for me interview with her to get her prepared for the case clinic I mean Her story is on matter most if you would like to listen into that I think we we have the The the the chance the ability you know to to build out a platform where we can work as Individual independent contributors autonomous agents but contribute to a common cause and I do and Jordan is now on board to secure funding. I think their funding sources available if we can build the case we need to build the case now we need to To set up a professional website. We need to create some professional materials articulate What this plan is all about but there is there are so many people trying to figure out how to assist and how to help and I think We we we have the energy and the The spirit in place you know to figure this out and and uh And see how we can get on on a community level To to develop a support structure You know the way we can and the point of this innovations poker Which really is the way we are visualizing this is you have a platform Out of this platform, we're reaching into a given community and and seek to map the Relationships within this community that determine how that food system functions and then on platform level We are extracting What I would call a blueprint out of this story that comes from the community and then reach out into uh into The border world to seek support supporting Um capacities that we can link up with this community and and see how we can resource those capacities So for example, there is an NGO working in the central american fear space Specialized to assist subsistence farmers to convert into regenerative organic production and link them with markets. So You know, I mean first thoughts listening to trisha. Can we connect? Florence was the executive director. She was on one of my panels in the webinar that I was holding with a citizen climate lobby She's a wonderful engaged and motivated leader of her group She has this target of wanting to convert 1 million subsistence farms into regenerative organic make them self-sustaining Now make them Great the ability for them to support their families and their community Can we link that you know and can we then step out and and resource her Florence with her organization To staff up for this particular project So so there you know, there are kinds of ideas spinning around But we just have to we just have to put it down on paper. You know, we have to Be able to to show this to someone so it becomes understandable, you know in in a in a in a moment in a 45 Second elevated pitch, you know so, yeah I mean take a look at what we're doing at matter most and if you feel so inspired. I mean, please please join us Thanks class and I think the next couple weeks will see a lot of progress on on this project. So I'm happy about that Um per Eric's request on the chat Uh, why don't we synchronize ourselves for a moment and take a nice long slow breath in and then a nice long slow breath out and to that I want to add my gratitude For your presence and your heartfulness And the co-thinking involved in this funny little journey that we're on. I really appreciate it. Thank you all