 Just like a casting director to make sure the lighting is all correct. Oh, yeah, for me. Like, you know, the frame, like, you know, everything, like, I want to see the frame, right? Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like, I took six hours to shoot one of one of these promotional videos. It was just a one minute or 30 or 40, 50 seconds video and I took six hours because I had to get it right. And I have no experience in doing that, you know, somebody who is friendly with cameras and just an actor who just comes and, you know, does it. So for me, it's very difficult actually. How are you guys? We're good. We're good. Yeah. Are you one of those casting directors that because sometimes we're both actors here in Los Angeles and sometimes casting directors will send like a full on page of instructions of frame, lighting and everything. Are you one of those casting directors? I mean, I was like, make sure you do it right. I usually just request them to hold the camera horizontal because I know because I think that's what I really want. I just want them to hold it horizontal. That's it. Forget about lighting. Forget about framing is horizontal. That's that's what that's the level I am in right now. That's great. Well, thank you for joining us, man. We really appreciate it. Thank you. We just finished. I'm probably saying it wrong, but the lock is. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. I we said but the lock for a long time. So we knew that was wrong. Yeah, just finished that. We saw you in the street and then obviously we found out you were cashing and we've seen a ton of your stuff. And so that's it's really cool for us because one, we appreciate your talent as an actor, but we've also never talked to a casting director from India either. And so you'll probably hear a couple questions about that. But how was your experience shooting? But how luck has the negative role? What was insane because you know, I never expected that out of me. I never I never thought I could I could pull off restrained character because I'm not restrained. Usually I'm I'm full of emotions and I there's a lot of hand gestures while talking. You will realize that so you know, there's a lot which I which which I keep doing with my body with my face with my you know, eyes of my hands. I'm really very like how do I put it like I think expressive human being, you know, so for me to not express and not be myself. I think that was the most tough, you know, job for me because it's not between the action and cut. It's actually after that. I would not go and talk to my friends who I know on set. I would not crack a joke. I would not laugh at their joke, or I would not go and eat with them. So that that was more difficult, because you had to live like that, you had to live so that you can control all your energies and then put in when it's really needed. Because there's a lot of controlled energy in the character. So it's only coming out when it's really needed. And for that, the entire shooting process that completely changed for me, you know. So were you like in the you you were kind of almost method a little bit doing this character? Yeah, I don't know. I still say I've not I've not studied method acting. I've not studied. I've not read books about it. But yeah, I definitely try to build unique methods, depending on the roles demand, you know, if the character demands me to maybe transport myself mentally to a different new world, then I would love to do that. That's something which I would enjoy. But if the character just wants me to have fun with myself, and you know, just enjoy like, you know, comedies or you know, the lighter ones, then I would just do that. Then I would have fun on the set. And I'm gonna have fun while shooting the film or the show, whatever I'm doing. So yeah, I just I like to mix it up. I don't I don't want to have this one process or one method of approaching my characters. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, because that definitely is the case. And I think a lot of people don't understand that about most actors is that they'll ask you what's your process and it does it kind of it varies from role to role, director, director, shoot to shoot. It's just it's never exactly the same. Exactly, exactly. What happens, I think would actors get stuck in that when you when you when you read or when you have a practice, one particular method for a long time, you start living with that. And to let go of that and follow something else becomes very difficult. So I think it's, I think actors need to be prepared for multiple formats and multiple, you know, methods, and hence, learn from as many teachers as possible, not stick to maybe one, you know, one detail. Yeah. And was that process for you to choose to do what you said, where you were going to distance yourself from the crew and the cast? Was that something that you decided you needed to do? Was that something that directors had said to you to do? Was it a combination? No, actually, I think no hard and fast rule like that for directors. Like, you know, I think the ones I had an interaction with them about the character and we started talking about the backstories and things which are not in the script, because that was very important to crack. Because if we didn't crack the backstory, then it was, I don't know, it could have been a disaster because you don't know, you don't know what you're doing there and that moment and it was very important for the character to know exactly why he is in that moment, you know, that piece is going to make him. So I think we went through one session and that turned out to be a very, very deeply emotional, you know, emotional session for me. And then I think we stopped, we stopped talking about it. We just they let me be. And, you know, I also didn't talk to talk to them on set much about the character because everything was there on script. And then just go day by day, moment by moment, scene by scene, and just keep experimenting. The director, he had given me a music piece to, you know, listen to whenever I want to think or go in that world. And that always had, you know, every time, every time I wanted to focus, I would just, you know, listen to that. And I know what I'm and the minute the pieces are off, there have been times that it's both my airpieces on my ear and they're like, okay, sound rolling and my voice is running and you're grabbing it because I wanted that piece to be with me till the last minute. And then the minute action hits. So music really helps, you know, and so that was quite interesting. Music is a very powerful tool, especially for actors. It just gets you in a certain mindset. So yeah, totally agree with that. Did you, obviously you said this was a different role for you. Did you, as a casting director, question the castings decision to come after you? As we had seen you in Street, obviously that's a totally different character from this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so I actually didn't, I didn't, I didn't preempt this. I never thought that I'm going to get off this. When I was, when I was reading it, I never looked at the character because the character doesn't have any lines and actors have a very bad habit of looking for lines. You know, it's, that's what it is. And so for me, I was not attracted to that character because it didn't have any lines. Twice or twice the guy speaks. And I was looking at this other character Ansari, who's the subordinate of Hatiram. You know, I was looking at him and I was finding him very interesting because it had layers and the guy is also oppressed and he's working in the system. So, you know, there's a lot going on with that guy. And he's learning about the system while wanting to be a part of the bigger system, you know, that he wants to become the, the IS officer or the, the, the, the most senior ranking police officers in the country. And he was preparing for that. So all of that really intrigued me. So I was, in fact, I was very vocal about the fact that I want to do that part. And I told the makers, and I told the makers that, you know, that's what I want to audition for. But they being my friend, I mean, they know me from a long, long time, they just laugh it out. You know, they just laugh it off. And they said, dude, have you seen your eyes? There's a, there's a, you know, have you seen your eyes? I'm like, what's wrong with my eyes? No, I mean, I did, I just did Janna. And that's a pretty innocent character. I mean, so I was wondering about key one director, Amar Kaushik, he casts me as Janna because he sees a very innocent, I don't know, face of vibe. And then there is another director or a maker who is not even like, you know, thinking about me remotely as a no sense or, you know, that, that kind of a performance. Now, Sudeep, the writer, the showrunner of this show. So he went and watched three. And that's when he came back and he said, you know what, I really want you to try for her. I'm like, what is the connection? What is the connection? Yeah, really? It's very I couldn't, I couldn't imagine that he said that no, I just see some madness. I see some madness in your eyes. And I think maybe it was in with reference to the scenes where Janna gets possessed, you know, and he starts behaving like the ghost. So I think that gave him the idea of me as a totally and that's what my casting director mind thinks. I never asked him that actually, I'll ask him. So, so, so, and then he told me and then I was like, okay, really? And I was a little upset because I thought, you know, I'm getting a smaller part, you know, I thought that I'm getting a way like, I don't know. And then I started reading it as an actor. Then you start reading the character as an actor. And that's when I realized the gravity of the situation. I was like, Oh, this is going to be a very crazy ride. Are you sure you want to do it? I already did a very, very dark character in a film called Ajji, which is on Netflix. And there I play child abuser. So that for me was the epitome of any darkness, a human being can, you know, possess. So for me to perform that, it really affected me as a human being, you know, I started having temper issues, and I started having uncomfortable situations where, you know, I would not understand why I'm behaving in a certain way. And that's that it can do that to you sometimes you and especially, especially beginners, because you know, that's what that was my first film. And the first whenever you're doing that first project or first acting stand, you always want to be the purist. And you always want to, you know, seek the truth. And there, of course, everything came from power and the street about patriarchy so much, you know, it really gave me a lot of ideas about the society. And it made me, you know, I started this getting disgusted about it. And I used to I used to hate it. I used to hate the set and I used to tell the director that, you know, I don't like the energy, I don't like anything about the character, but I had to do it. And I had to make it as hateable as possible. For this particular one, when I came and for me, it was different experience altogether, because here I had to play someone who is also been oppressed by the same society. And how do you do that? So that journey that I knew I was getting in for something really, really different, and it will change the way I think I look at the world. And yes, it did, you know, it completely changed a lot of outlook, the way I saw the world before and the way I see the world now after performing the characters. Yeah, that's the common experience for actors who really love the craft is that empathetic experience where each character you become, first of all, the entering it, you mentioned the not judging the character you had to play the child abuser. And then you've learned something new. That's the personal experience you had. How about in your outside world has the response we've received from all of our stupid babies who watched the show, and our opinion of your work was fantastic. You elevated yourself for us. Oh, absolutely love the word. How has been the response in your world? Have you gotten positive feedback from everybody? Yes, I've got a lot of positive feedback, something which I did not expect expected from the character. Like, you know, that's that's the I think for me it was very important for this character to be successful in terms of people showing love towards it. Because otherwise I would have failed I would have completely failed as an actor for me because I knew that the character was written with a lot of passion, with a lot of empathy. And it was not a uni dimensional character. And it had it had the real stories of India, you know, our country and how how how how ignorant we are towards certain things in our very own society. So I understood that I completely empathized with that first. And only then I could empathize with that. So yeah, I mean, and then see, I remember this actor, he called me and he's, he's just, I know him generally, he's not a friend. He's not an acquaintance. But he's somebody who I have called for auditions and he knows me from a long, long time and he suddenly called one day and he was very emotional and he was almost in tears. He was heavy voice choking and he was telling me how he felt the pain. And that when when when an actor does that when an actor shows the same emotion because he understands that he understands the character and the pain and everything and the angst. So when that kind of overwhelming emotion I got from a fellow actor, that was really satisfying because that's what that's the day I knew that, okay, something is right about the performance. Till then I had not seen the show till then I had not seen my performance, nothing. But when he called, I was like, okay, there's something special and better watch it very soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody involved was phenomenal in that show. Yeah. So thank you for doing it. I didn't want to know, how did you get started in the industry in terms of casting and in terms of acting? So, yeah, I mean, I was always an actor. I have a history of theatre in Delhi. I did a lot of theatre there and then I came to Mumbai, a young boy trying to, you know, just get some kind of space to become an actor and have high hopes. I have always had high hopes for me. I never wanted to do, you know, the hero's friend kind of characters because we do a lot of those here and then what happens is the media, somehow they slot you in that kind of category and then what happens is that it's very difficult to break through that category and make establish yourself as an actor. So I was very wary of that. So I knew that at an early age that I don't want to do, I don't want to do roles which typecasts me, even though if I have to wait, if I have to wait for longer, I'll do that. And what can I do? What can I do to be a part of the industry because there's nothing else I could do. I could not do anything but, you know, be in the film industry. So that was the main agenda. That was the main focal point and then I came to Bombay. I knew a casting director, Gautam Kishan Chilnani, who had cast for amazing films, almost revolutionary films during my college years, films like Dave D. Gulal, Black Friday. And you know, crazy amount of work was happening in casting, Omkara, Vishal Varadwaj films, you know, all these amazing films are coming out. And so casting was taking a front seat very slowly, but it was taking a front seat then a decade back, 10 years back. And I joined casting because I thought that this is going to serve two purposes. One, I'm going to earn my bread and butter. Two, I'm going to act every day because if I'm a casting associate, I'm going to be acting with all the actors who come there. And I'm going to be giving them cues all the time. I'm going to be practicing acting every day of my life and earning money for that. It's a win-win situation, right? I always thought it was a win-win situation and always thought, why don't, why doesn't anybody think like that? Why doesn't anybody else think like this is the best profession for actors? I mean, I really think it is. Because you get to know so much, you get to meet directors, you get to interact with them, you get to understand characters, you're playing a female, you're playing a 60-year-old man, you're playing the main lead, you're playing the negative, you're playing so many characters in one film, one feature film, and you're able to act so many of those characters. Imagine what 10 feature films will make, give you the kind of experience. So that's what I thought. And then I said, okay, acting will happen when it has to happen. It will happen gradually. It will happen magically. It will happen with my hard work. All that is there, let it fall into place. But this is something which I'm enjoying because it's also giving me my practice, which I think is very, very important. That's great. Yeah, I touched my chest out of happiness because as is the case, it's probably the same in India as it is in Hollywood. But most of the time when you go on an audition here, the person who's the associate that's doing the reading of the scene with you, doesn't even come remotely close to being an actor. And you have to read opposite somebody who's offering nothing for you. So to know that you're doing that for actors makes me very happy. In fact, in fact, I've heard that in Hollywood, they do that. I mean, someone, I was talking about this with somebody. And they said they do that because they want that, they want the cues to be flat so that the only emotion which is heard on the tape is the actor's emotion. Is that true? Is there any? It might very well be true for some. Yeah. It could be. I guess they don't want, you know, you definitely in an audition, you wouldn't want your casting associate to upstage the actor who's reading. True, true, true, true. But yeah, that can happen. You know, that can happen sometimes. It can. Because if you had some good actors, but you know what? I mean, I think in India, we were the first ones who started, we started working like that. We started having actors. I mean, of course, I mean, before us, there was Gautam, Gautam Kishan Siddhani whom we learned it from. We learned the trick from him. He was casting with Honey Trehan. And then, you know, these senior casting directors, they were using all these actors, theater actors to give cues to the other actors who are coming for the audition. And that really changed the scene. Because when there are two actors acting, the scene is completely you see a scene. It's not an audition anymore. And I think that's what that's what the filmmakers started enjoying. That's what everybody started enjoying the whole process. So there are many actors now in casting who are, you know, the part-time actors and doing this. It's wonderful. Can you scooch over just a tad? Yeah, great. Perfect. What do you think is actually, in talking about Hollywood is, I don't know if you know, is the biggest difference between casting in Hollywood and casting in Bollywood or Indian cinema in general? I think the biggest, biggest difference is the casting agents bit. I think casting directors in Hollywood, they cast only through Asians, and they don't cast through direct contact of actors. And that I feel is a very legitimate process. And I feel that also balances out of filters, the maybe the non-actors or, you know, the ones who are not really up for the particular audition. I don't know if that's the case. Or also I feel that that sometimes might be a minus for a lot of upcoming actors who don't have the right agents. They might not be able to reach the right audition. So there are always two sides to the coin. So they don't have, you don't contact through agents or managers in India? No, no, no, no. We do that. We do that very, like we do that for celebrities, usually people who have already made their mark, you know, semi-celebrities and celebrities and semi-celebrities who are just making their mark and celebrities who have just already made their mark. And of course, stars when you want to cast, you know, the big stars and everything, then you go further, go through that route, managers and agencies and everything. But usually what casting directors in India are doing, they're actually doing a lot of footwork. They're actually going to a lot of different, because it's a huge country and there's a lot of art happening outside the city, outside Mumbai. So it's easier for us to send somebody and find those theater actors because not everybody is coming to Mumbai. And not every time you will find the right part in Mumbai. So what do you do? Like if you want to cast somebody from Assam, you know, and there are very few Assamese actors in Bombay and you audition all of them and then you realize that, okay, no, I'm not getting my part, then you just go somewhere and you do it like that. So there's no centralized system like that. But I think, I think gradually, we will also start doing that in a few years. Let's see how technology and everything plays a part in that. I wonder if it has anything to do with the money of it. Because a lot of what my manager would do would be negotiate the contract basically for the actor. And so do they just make the actors basically sign a contract? Or do they not do that in India? I'm just curious now. Yeah, yeah. So if you're a fresher and you don't have any managers, then basically it's between you and the production or between you and the casting team. Interesting. So this is how this is how this is how the dialogue happens. And usually we tend to close contracts like that. That's how we do it. And there's a lot of good will in that too. You have that you have that rapport, you know, each other, you're comfortable with each other and you'll fix a price. And then when you become somebody who is successful or popular, then you start keeping those managers because the managers then also take out a lot of other logistics. It's not only your money, it's your travel and stuff and it's a lot of that. And plus when it's big money, you need negotiation. Maybe you're just willing to do with less money also. Got a very specific question regarding when people audition and you're casting something. And a lot of the times here, and I'm talking about a role comparable to say Tiagi in where there's a substantial role, not a small walk on quick thing, but do you prefer an actor to come in who, because they usually only get the sides, you don't give them the entire script, correct? Because that's what it works here. And do you prefer they come in with a fully formed backstory of their own and strong choices? Or do you prefer them to ask a lot of questions that are showing they care about script and that they want to provide you with what where is it a mix? It's a mix. It's a mix of both. I think what we do is we give them the sides and we like to send the sides maybe a two days or three days earlier than the audition. So that way that the actor has a lot of time to prepare. And B, we also give them a contact so that whenever they need to ask any questions about the particular scene or the backstory or whatever they need, they can always call the team and then they can discuss it. And when they come to the audition, they can again discuss it. I believe in discussion. That is very, very important because it's impossible for an actor to understand just a scene just through by reading it. You know, sometimes you can, but there are times you just don't understand what's what's happening in the scene and you need to understand that. And of course you have not read the script. And so I think that's what I think my casting team that it's been that's how we do it. We always discuss the characters thoroughly with actors. We try to give them as much explanations as possible for whatever their questions are and then do the test because then you don't need to really work hard on the test test basically. You just perform and it becomes the most continuous thing. Well, the casting uniformly for the entire show, we notice that when we watch a show or a film, we'll notice some of the substantial leads were good, but a lot of the smaller supporting roles are weak. The totality of your casting on this show, there wasn't a weak person in this cast. Anyone who had a line was fantastic. Yeah, I think that that was, I mean, I think we are lucky. I think luck also plays a part, you know, sometimes when you do this, because it's very difficult, it's very difficult to get those tiny parts and where actors really want to do it. And it's also how the directors make use of them. I think the credit goes to the directors. They know exactly what to say to the actor that, you know, you'll get that moment. So yeah, a lot of credit to them. But yeah, we have been lucky. And for this, especially the good part about Patan Lok is that it was so raw. It was so real that we didn't need to look for drama. Yeah, we didn't need to look for drama anywhere while shooting, while casting, while, you know, doing anything. I think we were away from drama and we were enjoying that process more. On that process of casting smaller roles, I want to ask you this, we've asked this to a few directors on your Ida Kashyap, a couple actors. But as a casting director in India, one of the things we've noticed is white foreign actors are just awful, just terrible usually. We've probably seen in almost 100 films we've watched, we probably seem like one good white foreign actor, one or two. So it's true. Is it strictly that people just, you can say this as casting, do you just find the first white guy that will do it? It doesn't have to do with most of the good actors or in SAG? Yeah, a money thing. We know it's a money thing, Parthik. The money thing is very, very huge. Like, you know, if you want to cast a, like, I remember there was a show and we wanted to cast some UK actors and we wanted to cast some Australian actors. And the production just said that no, you can't because, you know, it's going to cost them a lot. Just the flights, just the flights. And then exactly, see, you guys all have the Asians, you have your money set and everything. There's no negotiation there. There's no negotiation there. They can't pick the phone and say, hey, please do it for me, brother. So that's why I think it's very difficult because we have to now go through the local agents. And the local agents usually, they just, you know, sign a tourist. Wow. And I've actually met, I've actually met a lot of foreigners who would come for an audition and be like, dude, you didn't go last night for sure. Like, you know, you will not make your mark. So yeah, that's what, you know, that's the basic issue. But I mean, when we got a chance, like for one of the particular films we were casting in Poland, then we cast Polish actors. So of course, see, those are like proper professional ones. Here, maybe those are, mostly we find is part time. There are, if there are two, three good actors, they will get cast in every show or every film, wherever they need a foreigner. You will see that guy doing the same character again and again and again and again and again. So we're trying to change that, but economics is a big, big factor there. That's what everybody said. If you ever do need wide actors, bro, I don't want to call you Asian though. Yeah. No, no, no. Just call me. Straight to us. I won't tell him that I'm doing it and it'll be fine. Sack will have to know. Don't worry. Is it hard for you? Sorry. Go ahead. Is it hard for you, like if you're acting in something and not casting in it, is it hard for you to not judge or intervene sometimes with your casting director brain? Yeah, I do that. I do that a lot. I do that a lot. I have to try, but the thing is that it happens subconsciously. I think whenever I say yes to something, I always ask who are the actors. Who is doing that role? Who is doing that role? Because now for me, my casting director, like that side of me, it never stops. I'm always thinking of casting people because you're just reading so many scripts and everything. So there are so many characters always running around that you want to just look at them. And that's when I go on set or something like that. Somebody needs help. And if I'm acting and I'm not in a position of casting, but I still always offer them and if they need my help, I try to help them out. Why not? My whole point is that if I can contribute to a film, whatever way I can, even if by giving a stupid idea about art, then I would do that. I think that way I will just feel much more satisfied that I was not being very selfish and just did my job and went away. So we may have already said these things, but what's your favorite thing and your least favorite thing about being a casting director, if you can articulate that? Oh yeah, my favorite thing is that I am so glad that I actually can provide a platform for a young talent or somebody who the industry has still not seen. And me being somebody who is not from the industry, the whole happiness which I get that I could actually create a platform where there will be so many others who I would be giving opportunity to, not only today, maybe even 10 years later. And that is I think the most satisfying part of being a casting director or owning a casting company. The worst will be, I think too much of expectations from that. The best thing is actually the worst thing. Right, it's the other side of the coin. So now the thing is that there are too much of expectations from you and sometimes you can't be brutally honest. Sometimes you can't just tell somebody that I don't think you have it in you because it's a very, very difficult thing to say to someone and I would not do that. I would always want people to fight. But when I'm not able to take them, when I'm not able to select them, I do not know how else I tell them, but it was about the performance of things like that. So that for me, to tell somebody that you're not going to get this role or people having expectations from me that I might just do something for them just because I know them, that is always the worst part. And same question about with acting. Acting, there's no worst part. There's nothing about acting, which I have any problem with. I might silk about the heat or the cold temperatures or all of that. I might silk as a human being, but for me as an actor, I'm okay with whatever. I don't think I have any problems with it. And for me, it's always, as I said, that it's like an adventure. It's like an adventure because you are actually playing somebody else and you are living another life. And in your own lifetime, you can actually have your mini lives. So as I always feel that actors have many lives like in a game. It's very difficult for us to be KO. If we keep fighting, if we keep doing it, it's very difficult for us to be KO'd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were the casting director for The Sky is Pink. Yes. Yes. And I mentioned that film because we, having been exposed now to the better part of a year and a half, intimately in recognizing things about Indian cinema, we passionately want to see a bridge being built, especially from the American side of things where America pays closer attention. And Priyanka went on all of the shows and they beautifully didn't talk about it as an Indian film. It was Priyanka's film and they played a clip from it with the Hindi. And I would just wanted to know how important is that for you, your Indian industry as both an actor and a casting director, would you like to see more cross pollination or for you, is it like really doesn't matter if it happens great, we're good in India? And what are your thoughts on that? I think cross pollination is the cross pollination is the future. I think that is the future. And I've been saying this to the youngsters also that I think now we don't need to think about one particular industry as actors. We need to really, really widen that horizon and we have to think globally because we are watching shows from across the world. I am watching an Israeli show. I'm watching a German show. I'm watching a Colombian show. I'm watching an American show now. It's not only Hollywood. It's not only a Bollywood. The boundaries are much wider now. I'm in love with Latin American actors. I'm in love with them. I had no clue that they act so well. And I've been seeing some of their stuff wasp network. And I was mind blown again. And I've been seeing this. I've been seeing this regularly. And I'm like, Oh my God, I want to learn that language and maybe trying their industry too. Why not? Why not? Why not? And why doesn't an actor think about like, if I see a money heist and I get inspired by that. I don't know the language, but I am an actor and actors can pick up languages. We have seen that happening ever since the inception of cinema. So, you know, so I think it's the time. It's the time is to move forward. And I hope I really hope and I really think it's going to happen. It's going to happen more on the OTT for sure. Because India has a wide, wide market, wide market. If you really have those international Indian shows with some amazing actors from across the world, why not? Yeah. Yeah. I did. I just thought about something I wanted to ask. We watched a video and it was about the casting process sometimes. And I was wondering if you think and if it's changing at all, because they said for a long time, darker people, similar to like a Nawaz and Siddiqui, were always cast in a certain role. We talked to him. He's like, I've never asked to, you know, kiss the girl. I'm always asked to hold the gun. Do you see that like changing at all in terms of not in Indian cinema, like they're not caring as much as what the hero looks like? Or what do you what do you think about that? Yeah, I think I think I think they're getting open to the idea of maybe maybe seeing people the way they see people on the road. Yeah. You know, there's an aspirational casting where you want to see actors who don't look like you, you know, who you want to get into that fantasy world and you know, just live your fantasy through them. And then there is a kind of films which is happening where you are just, it's a reflection of you. It's a reflection of your life. And when it's a reflection of your life, so that's why the most realistic cinema, when we talk about realistic cinema, that is what it is. It's reflection of what is real. So then you want to see the actors who maybe look like you, or maybe who looks similar to you, or maybe who you could say that, yeah, my friend looks like him, you know. So or I know him, or that that that so you have that confidence in the character, you relate to that character more. And that's happening. I think I think, you know, that's happening at a rocket speed, in fact. And that's the beauty of coexistence. You know, that's why I always say that fantasies are going to live. You can write that's how cinema is fantasy, theater is fantasy, everything like it started with fantasy, someone, you know, glorifying it or having that magnification of, you know, the performances and everything. That is how people started looking at performance art. So that will never stop. But now the new thing, the new, how do I put it? I don't know, it should be called an era, or it should be called the new attraction point for the audience is that they also want to see something very real, something which is hard to go where they see the realities of their life, of their world, they see the politics, they see the, you know, the bureaucracy, they see everything. And they want to see that. And because they have not been seen, they've not been exposed to it for a long, long time. Yeah, you know, it's a great, great point. Yeah, because earlier, whenever there's to be something political, it used to be termed as art, cinema. If there's any political, you know, thoughts and opinions in a particular film or in a show, it would be easily called art cinema. It would not be a commercial cinema. That's how I grew up. Yeah, that's how I grew up. And there were directors like Govind Milani and Shyam Manigal and others who used to make amazing films. And I used to always watch them and enjoy them. And then I, my dad used to say that this is art cinema. You know, this is art cinema. This is art cinema. That's not the commercial cinema. So that bridge, that gap, somehow I think it's merging now. It's merging. It's becoming one. And we see such amazing content because of that. Yeah, especially on the OTT platforms. Yeah, I mean, immediately. Yeah, especially on the OTT platforms, because there's so much you can do there. And that's exactly one of the things that's so riveting and believable about Patalok. And we was so riveting about something like Gangs of Wasupur. Now, obviously, stupid babies here on our stupid reactions just jumped up and down about Patalok. What other projects are you working on, either as an actor or a casting director that we should know about because we want to watch what you're doing? Yeah, I mean, we, I mean, I think casting wise, I'm right now, we are discussing a lot of projects. We are going to start something. So I think there's going to be some nice lineup of projects, which will start from July, all on pipeline right now, of course, because of the lockdown. Yeah. And acting wise, I'm doing comedy next. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be acting in this film called helmet, which is going to release very soon, I hopefully, and apart, Shakti is there and I am there, Ashish Verma. So that's a, I have a film called Akhmacholi, which is again a comedy film. So I stammer there. So that's, so that's something interesting. I've never tried that. So yeah, these are the two films, and I'm looking forward to, and there's some work which is going to be on Netflix and Hot Star, but they've not announced yet. Yeah. Well, that's exciting. We're looking forward to seeing anything you do. I want to thank you for your time. We really, really appreciate it. We think you're so, so talented. I just want to finish it off with a little bit of a rapid fire. Just stupid questions. So answer. Yeah, these are going to come quick. I love stupid questions. Coffee or Chai? Chai. Favorite alcoholic beverage? Whisky. What kind? Yeah, nice. I'm interested. What kind? What, what, what? What kind of whiskey? Sorry, I'm interested in the alcohol. Actually, I'm not a very fussy guy like that. You know, if you really serve me whiskey, I'm going to have it, but I like single malt. That's my, that's my preference these days, and it keeps changing. It keeps changing. You can never like, you know, it keeps changing with the government allowing us to buy liquor, I think. Favorite Hollywood film? Oh, it's right here. It's right here on my wall. It's Black Swan. Really? That's a great movie. That's a fantastic film. Favorite Indian film? Any, any region, any, anything? Oh, I don't know, but I really, I really, really love Agni Path. And that's an Amitabh Bachchan film. And every time I see it, I, I can, I think I can watch it a thousand times. I don't know why, but I just love it. I just love the performance of Mr. Bachchan there. And I just love the characters in that film, the way, you know, everything is nicely shown. There's some amazing action scenes. And to think of, you know, they were shot in the 80s or the early 90s, though that was difficult. Whatever that film was, that was not an easy film. So I always, I don't know, I always love that a lot. Favorite Hollywood director? Uh, Martin Scorsese. And favorite Indian director, if you can. If you can say that. No, I, I, I, at the moment I have, I have one man. His name is Lijo Jose Pellisri. And he's a Malayalam film director and he made a film called Angamalai Dairies. And you have to really, really watch that film to believe it. It's a beautiful film. And yeah, so what's this? Angamalai Dairies. It's, it's Angamalai Dairies and Lijo Jose Pellisri. He's the director of the film. And yes, I love that. And there's another director called Kumara Rajan Tyagar Raja. He directed Super Deluxe. It's on Netflix. So these two are really, I mean, these two are crazy. And you know, they're the new age. I don't, I didn't know about them, but when I started doing a little bit of research, I was like, Oh my God, they're doing some crazy work. Yeah. So I have to like, you know, I want to work with them soon. I hope so. Favorite Hollywood actor? Jack Nicholson, I think he's my favorite. I'm always, yeah. He's, I don't know why he always takes the cake for me. Always. I just love him. I just love him the way, I don't know. Shining. I'm not kidding you. When I saw Shining, I was freaked out. I do not forget that face that I don't know. I don't, I don't forget his face for I think more than a month or something like that. He used to come in my nightmares. And then water performance. Lastly, favorite Indian actor if you can. Amitabh Bachchan, big, big. That's a good answer. He's been, he's been my favorite since I was five, I think. So yeah, he is my favorite. Is that your favorite? The one you mentioned before, is that your favorite film of his? Yes, yes, Agnipat. It's Mr. Bachchan. So yeah, you have to, you have to see that film if it's not watched it. See the swag. I'll watch that one. Well, I want to thank you so much for your time, man. We really, really appreciate it. It was great talking to you. We think you're super, super talented as an actor and obviously a talented casting director. We would love to be the token white guys and anything you do in the future. Sure. I'm going to give you a present, guys. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you, and it's very encouraging talking with you. And it's not a surprise based on the work we've seen you do and the projects we've known you've been involved in. You have a generosity of spirit that comes across not just in your work as an actor and a casting director, but in your personality. You are one of the many we've talked to that encourages us the kind of people that we love seeing in this industry who we know are not just making the industry a better place relationally, but are making it more elevated artistically. So we really appreciate you. Thank you so much. That's so sweet of you. So sweet of you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great day. All right. Thank you. Night.