 Hello and welcome to another very special episode of our series, Beating All Odds. In this series, we are speaking to leaders who despite so many odds, challenges and constraints that COVID-19 has imposed on all of us are ensuring that work must go on. With me today is one such leader, Mr. Rana Barua, Group CEO, Hawas Group, India. Welcome to the show, sir. Thank you, Nazia. Good to be here. Hope you are all fine, safe at your home. Absolutely. Completely safe, completely home, not getting out, not hassling anybody. Absolutely. Sir, to begin with, I want to understand in these times of distress and uncertainty, how are you keeping the morale of your employees high? I think this question actually keeps changing every day, honestly, but I think it's one of the most perpillian efforts is being put in to keep every single motivation or trying to keep the morale high. Anybody who's saying that we've got adjusted to working from home or is saying that it's easy to be working from home, I will completely differ from everyone because it is probably one of the toughest challenges we are seeing working from home. Yes, we have all adapted working from home. Yes, we've got used to a certain life pattern. But I think what we need to keep doing and I think what we are trying to do is that you must create a work culture working from home. You must try and keep a much easier work culture working from home. And I think that if you want to keep the morale of the employees high, you must space out everybody's life. You must give each other a lot of breathing time. In normal of these days, I think you're used to words like, if you have ever asked me a few months back, I've said, you know what, I packed so many things in my schedule. I'm not choco blocked. You know, I'm running behind my schedule. I think, you know, all those words have been kept aside a bit. I think my schedules are not getting packed. I am not choco blocked. I'm actually spacing out the way I'm working because you have to give breathing time to everybody. You have to understand people are working from home. You know, there are other challenges at home. There are other constraints that we are working from home. So I think, you know, a lot of patience, a lot of breathing time, a lot of spacing out of every schedule is something that if you keep doing, you can get your employees to be motivated apart from talking to them and keeping in a dialogue every now and then. Sir, your own employees are still easier to manage. How are you dealing with clients? I think, you know, I would say that what is good about this bit is that, you know, the clients have also going through the same phase like us, right? So when you call clients, a lot of them are actually some of most of these clients are also your friends. So I think, you know, this, because this battle is so, so, so not unique, it is absolutely for everyone. You know, it is not like I'm facing it and you're trying to understand how is Abbas group and Rana facing this, everybody's facing the same problem. So you know, when you reach out to clients, also clients understand that it's the same issues and problems. But I think, you know, one of the key things that, you know, I would say that you must do and I think a lot of us are definitely doing is that this is probably the best time to, you know, remove all your positions, remove all the profiles that you have on your visiting card, everything because you're not, you don't have a visiting card. You're sitting at home and you're doing a job. I think you have to just become one-on-one with most of your clients. I think you have to speak to them more often. You have to understand the issues more often. You need to figure out their problems more often. It's just not work anymore, right? They may have certain personal issues. They may have challenges that they're facing. They have business issues. So best thing is to do is to, you know, for a moment, just forget that it's a client agency relationship and we're just doing our job. I think what we must do is to clearly understand we are partners now. We are absolutely partnering your personal issue, your professional issue, your business challenge. I think there are many, many clients who I actually tell them my own personal problems or issues that I face. My job challenges or issues that maybe as a group I feel maybe, you know, some of the challenges that maybe otherwise I wouldn't have been sharing so openly. But, you know, it's such a flat even ground now that, you know, a lot of these conversations, if you're transparent and honest, I think it's going to help any client agency partnership, if I may say so now. Sir, talking specifically about your certain clients, you know, you have clients from different sectors. You have some, your biggest client, Reket is into consumer durables, which is still, you know, relevant right now, even in these days. The demand has, it has not gone up. It is at least consistent. A lot of people would need their products. What kind of strategy are you using for clients like these? So, I think you're right. I think if I may, if I may also kind of combine the question that you're also asking is that if there are clients that, for example, are very much relevant now and still, you know, working extremely hard to ensure that business is moving because even in a lockdown, a lot of brands of Reket, as you rightfully said, you know, are very much required at home. It's on health. It's on hygiene. It's on germ kill. So all these work is going on. And I think your other part that you would have probably asked is then what about the clients who are not. That's the next question. So I think I'll combine both. So I will try and combine both and say that, you know, actually there are two ways of looking at what you can do. So for example, if I look at just, if I, for a second, if I just keep the challenges aside of what you need to do on a regular basis and try and figure out, I think one of the key learnings is that, you know, this is probably the best time to sit with your clients, whether the client is selling or not selling is to understand the business, the dynamics, the issues, the challenges, a lot of strategy that was planned earlier last year, maybe early of this year. And we were planning to execute. This is probably the time when we've been re-looking at a lot of these strategies, execution plans, change of business plans, change of business strategies, because you know that, you know, all the business plans are changing. All the objectives are changing. Every single number is changing for the months. So then naturally, apart from the marketing budget that gets impacted, the business entire plans and strategy is changing. That if I open up in May, what do I do? If I don't open up in May, what do I do in June? If I do some stuff in May, how do I plan a June? So, you know, it's become very moment marketing kind of a business plan. You know, the long term that, you know, some of us used to plan saying that next quarter, what is the business plan? You know, we used to say that annual plans are gone. Now it is quarter to quarter existence. What's this entire thing? It's actually normal quarter to quarter existence. It's about what's what's the plan for next month? How will we manage May? How do we end this June? So if I look at a record kind of a client, there's a lot of work going on, which is, you know, we are fortunate to have one of our biggest clients in record then Kaiser, you know, it's probably a client, which is not only there is truckloads of work is work happening across all the categories. There is work happening on all the mediums. The main television might be on hold, but a lot of work is happening on digital, a lot of work happening behind the scenes on what kind of stuff. You know, the moment we get to know that there might be a partial opening up on 20th of April, there was a lot of work that started getting because we knew that maybe, you know, the goods will start moving from one state to the other. Sorry for interrupting. Have you, are you also getting some new creatives done? Are we, can we expect a new campaign? Yes, we are a new creative means campaign or otherwise you might call it, but yes, there will be some work coming out from record of on in this thing, you know, for a fact that a lot of work is happening on Deorex, for example, on the digital medium. We are constantly working on the digital medium on Deorex. You know, we have been putting up small videos, we are putting up a lot of stuff on Deorex, which, you know, we can share with you, but yes, of course, there's a lot of work also happening on Harpec, there's work happening on Moti. So that's the category, which naturally, like I said, is extremely relevant and, you know, it is meaningful work that we are trying to do and we call it meaningful because, you know, that's one of the strongest band philosophies in Havas, which is meaningful and meaningful brand. So what is also happening is that you're not going to do this work, which is absolutely not making any sense, or you're trying to hard sell a product, you can understand that the psyche of the consumer is extremely garbled right now, you know, he or she is under tremendous pressure, there is mental pressure, there's emotional pressure, there's financial pressure. So even the work that we are trying to do, we are trying to ensure that there is some kind of connection with the consumer that is meaningfulness in the entire brand communication. So that's with brands that are active, you know, that's kind of work that is active. There are many such brands which are active in a stable where there is a lot of work happening, you know, we were discussing some conversations with one of our clients, we just want a month back, I'm sure you will be aware, we are working on Fortis, for example, which is, you know, very reputed hospital chain. And you know, when you get into the depth of the work that Fortis is doing, you see, you suddenly realize that there is so much work and interest that we can generate through a hospital chain like Fortis, which is now one of the strongest chains where, you know, not only COVID patients, but also not COVID patients are coming. So you can understand the challenges that a hospital faces and what an agency or a communication partner can do to help this entire, you know, this journey of the, you know, the really challenging times takes me to the point that you wanted to ask is about what have, what about clients? It's not just about your clients, even in general, you know, the sectors which are not, which can't do much right now, maybe automobile or airlines or travel industry. So if you have clients from, from these domains, what are the kind of strategies are you, I mean, proposing? Yeah, so I definitely give you so, actually, for example, if you look at the automobile categories, and we handle automobile category in our media, for example, you know that, you know, we have a fantastic partnership with In Ocean and Hyundai, which is our largest category in clients. And, you know, we have in the Havas creative, we have usual, which we have about to launch Citron next year. So, you know, completely, I'll give you two different sets of the coin. So because one is a launch market, there is work happening behind the scene, they're getting ready, hopefully for a launch early next year, there's been an official press release that we were supposed to launch Citron this year, we're going to Citron launch next year, early, early up next year. But does work stop because, you know, the launch is going to next year, no, because a lot of work which is happening on what should be the thematic idea of what should be the brand film. So there is work happening behind the scenes. And of course, the workload is less, because naturally, it is not frenzy work like the way. Now, when you go back to, let's say a work like Hyundai, or if you look at the work that we're doing on Kia, which is from a media relationship, naturally, a lot of the media spends and conversations are on hold. And but obviously, but actually, what we are also planning is that there's a lot of conversations happening on the business plans on the engagement plan, because we are all hopeful that the lockdown, even if it's a partial opening up from third of May, there's a lot more conversations that you know, the factories will start, you know, a lot of manufacturing start, you know, in the creative side, again, I'll give you an idea. We have Suzuki, which is a Suzuki bikes and scooters, which is again, a very large client, which is something we want earlier this year. Suzuki, for example, is again, you know, there is a lot of brand work, which is going behind the scenes, because we are also expecting that, you know, the manufacturing will start. So what is also happening is that while you can see a bit of a standstill or a quietness in terms of because many brands and categories where across all agencies and networks, the media spends have come down completely. But what is also happening as a bargain is that since a lot of revisit of strategies is happening, a revisit of conversations on how to deploy media is happening, because we are also very hopeful that this is not going to continue for too long. You know, the monsoons are coming. We are hopeful, hopeful that the monsoons is going to be a good monsoon. It immediately changes the sentiment of the nation. If a good monsoon happens, and you know what happened with a good monsoon that India kind of rebounds back and then post that if you have a good season coming up, you know that this COVID is not going to go back. It's going to be there probably prevalent for some time. But with this partial lockdown and opening up of saying, and let's say the plan start working, and even if say the dealerships and all start opening, we are hopeful that you know, a bit of momentum will come back into the sentiments everybody's. Sir, as a, as a, as an industry veteran, how much, how long do you think it'll take the industry, overall industry to recover from this crisis? I think, you know, though we are not putting a very clear kind of a definite time, but I think this entire next few quarters will probably be in a form of, you know, we what we call it as a, you know, up and down kind of a moment that we think we are going to be seeing because what is definitely not going to happen is that it's not like, okay, quarter two is here, and you know, we are going to start moving things or something. Because what we are definitely expecting is that this year quarter to quarter three quarter four, and I'm just talking about till December, I think it's going to be an extremely challenging time for this. Maybe we see some movement happening from end of this year. And hopefully we see a better 2021. But I will be extremely surprised that if 2020 starts looking better before the last quarter, it's not going to start getting into some shape before October or November. So what are some of the key things that you think marketers or agency people, I mean, the entire industry should do to ensure that the recovery is on track. So I think, you know, one of the, again, you know, there are two or three things. One is that naturally, you know, it is like, like I was hearing very senior professional, the other day saying that, you know, it is, if this was just a pure recession, you would have said that, don't stop spending, keep building your brand, right, which is the normal conversation we always do that, you know, even in terms when the market goes down, we keep saying that you must invest in the brand and keep building the brand. I don't think that's the choice here. No, you cannot you can't unnecessarily spend money behind brands. If, you know, the consumers are not going out, if you and I are not going to go out and people down the strata are not going out, if there is no money down the line, what are we going to go out and buy if all shops are closed, right? So I think it's very clear that what we need to figure out very clearly is that, what are the, what is the kind of objectives that we have with our brands number one, right? So if, for example, we are very clear that there are mediums available, where we can keep engaging with the consumer. So which is why a lot of people have started using television, if you look at the kind of numbers and figures that we are seeing, if the kind of cereals that have started coming up mythological cereals, which maybe was not in your time, maybe, you know, when we were growing up, those were the cereals, you know, we thought we'll never come back to Indian television, if you can see that that's the kind of television people are watching and all and those are the kind of shows and all that's happening. You know, so maybe we need to be very clear about what our objectives are for this year and relook at things. I think the other bit which I am definitely sensing and I'm kind of trying to, you know, make this into a more stronger conversation is something which I'm calling it as something as a calibrated marketing, which is something which I'm trying to define and is probably the first time I'm sharing it with you. What I define by calibrated marketing is basically marketing going in ups and downs, you know, so you will not have a clear cycle like we used to do before. So for example, what I mean by that is, in case the market opens up, you will have a bit of spends, a bit of sales, consumers will buy. So we will have some kind of market. And then suddenly, in case we have to go back into the homes and lockdown, then we go down again. And again, we come back and then there is a bit of a spend and also I think what we will also see is that spends are going to not be consistent. It's probably getting to a bit of burst and, you know, indefinite things like before. And the third thing, apart from the medium choice, like I said, and the calibrated marketing, I think the third thing what is going to also happen is that a lot of our conversations, you know, a lot of our conversations will start becoming extremely and I please remember this one, it's going to become very meaningful. And I don't keep it meaningful because it's one of our strongest words. If you don't have purpose, you know, and I keep saying this to a lot of a lot of our clients and a lot of people, if you look back the last one month, where most of us in this country have been locked down at home, you suddenly realize that you can lead your life with a lot of brands, without a lot of brand. Are they important? Yes, they are very important for us. Do we need them? Yes, we need them. But the question is, can we live without them? If out of those brands that doesn't exist in your life today, 50 to 60% you can live without them, which means those brands don't have a relevance or purpose in your life. Then if I look back after six months and I come back and say, Nazia, we did a study and we come back to you and say that actually so many number of brands are actually losing purpose and relevance. Can you imagine what will happen? That means there are just a finite number of brands which are actually important to you in your life or a consumer's life. I'm just saying you as the overall consumer and me as the consumer, which is why you know, one of the biggest studies which we will now start focusing a lot on is meaningful brands because brands without purpose, brands without relevance, brands which will not have a clear reason. Like you just gave me an example of some of the work that's happening on one of my clients where every single brand has the strong relevance, strong purpose, strong reason, you need them on a day-on-day basis. So if you ask some of your colleagues, if you ask some of the people and you see, you know, there are so many brands we are not buying because there's A not available, it's termed as non-essential, it's termed as some is termed as essential. So I think that's going to get critical that if a lot of brands will start defining purpose, not just because they have to define, because they have realized that these are the situations which can happen anytime. If I don't have a clear relevance and need, I may not exist anymore. So I think that's the third point which is clearly coming out. So for me, it's going to be the medium, excellent choice of medium that marketers will have to do and figure out. I'm not just saying digital, it can be digital, it can be the entire world of, you know, television, it can be content, it can be OTT platforms, it depends on how we want to use the medium. Second, like I said, it's going to be a lot of calibrated marketing, it's going to be marketing which has probably come in burst and marketing which will also see the relevance and third would be how meaningful and am I to a consumer? So that's the three key thoughts. Sorry again, I'm interrupting but does that mean that luxury brands have to worry? Because I mean how will No, I'll tell you why it doesn't need to worry because the point is even in luxury brands, you will clearly because see the consumer is going to become very, very smart. So everybody, all of us are saying that, you know, like, you know, if I look at absolutely the high in luxury segment, it's also going to be very clear that it's not going to be a world of luxury brands. So even for the world of every single category, if earlier we used to say, oh, we have so many choices, you can take the choice. Even in that choice, even in the world of luxury, you're going to have a set of brands which will have far greater connect, far greater meaningful, far greater connection with you because, you know, today you're sitting at home or a lot of people are sitting at home. It's not like they don't, they're not missing the presence of so-called the luxury brands in the life, which is because you know that. But hey, earlier if you were looking at multiple levels of luxury brands, today you will probably say that, you know what, I'm okay with those two or three, which again defines a point that your brand choice might become lesser, but your brand choice will be defined by the meaningfulness of the brand in the consumer's life. So that's what I'm saying. So I'm not ever saying any client or any brand will lose its purpose. I am saying that whichever category, whichever it be, high-end luxury, absolutely basic commodity, absolutely something that you feel that you know, something in food, something in services, you know, it's the ones which are making a difference to you are the ones which will continue to carry on becoming better. So before we close, I want to ask you a question, which is a little personal also. This is a unique situation. I don't think the you or I or any one of us has been locked in our houses for this long ever before. So how has this evolved you as an individual? I think you know what, you know, and this is naturally a, you know, it's absolutely being absolutely honest to say that, you know, what has definitely happened to a person like me is that, you know, I never work from home, you know, so I don't, I actually don't understand this concept. So, you know, when I started working from home and I had to get used to Zoom and calls like this through video and everything because, you know, so it's naturally taken me a while. But what I realized very early when, and to be, and if I can share this with you is that I actually, I have changed from what I am working outside to working from home. So it's a two, it's a different, I'm a different person honestly. I had to do that because, you know, I'm a very, very, you know, I move very quickly. I like to move things. I like to interact. I like to meet. I like to do things. You know me for a while. So you know that I was, you know, where I work and so forth. I naturally that working style had to go. So what I did first was to completely change myself. It took me maybe a week to figure out that I had to forget the way I was and I unlearned a lot of things. And, you know, so I slowed down my life. When I say slowed down means I became a bit more patient. I had to become calmer because this is it's extremely tough to keep talking, to keep managing, to keep, you know, do a lot of these expectations. I ensured that, you know, you engage a lot more, you understand, you know, because, you know, when you're talking to somebody, you have to also sit and listen. So right now if I'm talking to you, now I'm listening. You know, I can't keep talking. So I have to listen. So you have to engage more. You have to listen. You have to become a bit more patient. And, you know, the other thing is that, you know, you must realize that you must have a sense of humor. Yeah. So you need to crack jokes or at least say something which lightens the atmosphere. So, you know, there's been a lot of unlearning from the way one was working and all. And honestly if you asked me that, have I enjoyed it? I think I really enjoyed this time, you know, rather than... There's also got a, there's also got a chef out of you, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely because I've started cooking. I spent a lot of time with my children, with my wife. You know, there's so much more conversations we've been doing every weekend I cook. I've actually suddenly realized that, you know, I'm an amazing chef. I didn't know that. So I'm enjoying it and it's not out of boredom or I'm trying to change myself. I look forward at, okay, what am I cooking this weekend and all. So, you know, you need to just sort out your mind. Don't try to follow it as a format that, hey, this is... You never know, Nazia, this may just happen three, four times this year. We are all guessing that we are going to go back to work. A lot of people know that we may go back to work, we may again come back and again get locked out for two, three weeks. If things go bad, you know that. It's not going to be that we are going to be working from home all the way till November or December. We'll probably go back, we'll probably come back, we'll probably come back two, three times. So I think let's, let's be ready that this is how work will be for the next few months. So, if working from home is a part or a, or let me put it as that, it's something that we need to learn, then yes, it's a new habit. It's not what you were doing outside. It's very different. So, you need to be, you need to change yourself to definitely work from home in a, you know, very, very, because you know, like you asked me, the first question is how do you motivate your people. So the question also is who motivates you. So I need to also wake up every morning in a very motivated and charged way to ensure that, you know, the entire group is working in a very positive way. Thank you so much, Mr. Bhairava, for speaking to us. This was really inspiring on a lot of fronts, not just professional, but also personally there are a couple of things that all of us watching will learn from this. Thank you again for speaking to Exchange for Media. We wish you good health, stay at home and stay safe. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.