 March 25th, 2021, special meeting of the Essex Select Board. Are there any agenda additions or changes? In specific examples. This is the name of the memo. Title of the memo. We can speak to that when we get to it at the board. Okay. Thank you, Greg. Any other agenda additions from staff or board members? Barry, what's your opinion? Could everyone please mute their microphones, please? Other than this agenda addition, is there anything else? Okay. And I'll accept a motion from a board member to approve the agenda as amended. They can hear us. So moved. Thank you, Vince. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Pat. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Nay. Okay. We'll need to do a roll call. So, Vince. Aye. You're changing your vote? I'm changing my vote. I didn't realize what I was, yeah. Okay. Can I have a while? Yeah, go ahead. Andy. No. And Elaine, aye. So the agenda amendment passes by a vote of three to two. So we will be discussing this memo in the item 5B. Okay. Vince, would you go ahead and read our indication before we begin? Yes. We are gathered together in civil assembly. We gather as a community in the oldest sense of the word. We gather to come together and try to make decisions about what is right about what is wrong. Let us advocate for our positions, not at the expense of others. Let us remember that there is an immense gap between saying, I am right and saying, I believe I am right. And that our neighbors with whom we might disagree are good people with hopes and dreams as true and high as ours. And let us always remember that in the end, caring for each other in this community is of far greater importance than any difference we may have. Thank you for being here this evening. Thank you, Vince. I appreciate it. And thank you, Greg, for putting that up on the screen. Our first order of business is public to be heard. This is the part of the meeting when members of the audience can speak to the select board on items that are not on the agenda. If you would wish to speak on something that is not on the agenda, you can raise your hand using your team's toolbar or by indicating in the chat that you wish to speak. I see one hand, Max Levy. I just want to wish you well. I think this is your last meeting, unless there's another special one coming up. I've known you for many years and how much you care deeply about our community. How you work tirelessly towards doing what you believe is best for the community by always doing your homework and putting in, I put in a lot of hours when I was on the board, but I've seen you put in way more. So I thank you for your service. Your no-nonsense ethic. And I think we're fortunate to have had you as a public servant, both when you were a trustee and on the select board. So I just want to wish you well, and I know you're not going anywhere, and that you're going to stay involved in the community. But I did want to wish you well. And thank you for being chair of the board. I know, again, firsthand, that can be a very tough position. You have a target on your back, whether you like it or not. So thank you for all you've done for us. Thank you, Max. It's very, very kind. And I enjoyed serving with you as well. Thank you. Are there any other audience members who wish to speak on something that is not on the agenda? I interpreted the information that we received, and what we felt was in doing the most amount of good for the community itself. So I mean, certainly is the approximate number 400, right? That sounds about right to me, but I think I was very clear in the earlier meeting that that was a reference only to the petitioners themselves, not to any previous outreach efforts. Yeah, but it wasn't a real village petition versus the townwide survey. So Dennis, the town residents had an opportunity to speak up by voting no for merger on March 2nd. And so we heard their voices loud and clear. You had a question for me as well. Well, yeah, yeah, my question is, you know what I mean? Every, at the beginning of every select board meeting, I guess the last several that Vince was nicely to read about being civil towards everybody and stuff like that, even though we're not in total agreement and stuff like that. Well, I was a little appalled at the meeting, the last meeting when I felt like one of the select board members was demeaned by the chair because he voiced his opinion when he gave his opinion to taxpayers that were asking questions about the merger and stuff like that in the lack of information that was supplied to the taxpayers. And you know what I mean? I believe that the select boards should set an example and not demean people and stuff like that. I give a lot of credit to Andy. He's got a big backbone. I wish more other people on the select board had that also. And that's all I have to say. I appreciate your opinion on the matter, Dennis. Thank you. Are there any other people in the audience who wish to speak on items that are not on the agenda? Ken Signorello. Very quickly, Madam Chair, thank you. I just want to voice concern for a piece of information being added to the agenda that hasn't even been included in the packet. I haven't had a chance to see it. No other select board members have had a chance to see it till tonight and I can't see it even now. That's my concern. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else from the audience wishing to speak on items that are not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing none. I will bring it back to the board and we will move on to item 5a, question and answer session regarding April 13th vote for reconsideration on whether the town of Essex shall adopt the plan of merger of the town of Essex, Vermont and the village of Essex Junction, Vermont dated January 11th, 2021, and proposed charter for merged communities. So I think this is the reason why we called this meeting and we were basically going to speak about it. This is the second time within dawn three weeks, four weeks that your crew has stuffed 15,000 plus ballot envelopes and it's an envelope within an envelope. And so, you know, so you have a ballot that has to go into an envelope that goes into an envelope. They have to make sure that the voters that are on the roles are active, that they're still living where they're supposed, they say they're living. This time they put on stickers with people's addresses because we have several people that have the same name. And if you don't, you know, write your name legibly on it. You don't know which one you are. And if you're voting in the right place. So I really want to say thank you to the BCA members for giving of their time to do this again for what was supposed to be just mainly the village budget, the village board members up for election and the school board election and budget. And then it became the citizen petition as well. So Don, you're on my bottom left. Andy, you were there. I know Tracy was there. Brian Sheldon was there. Betsy Dunn was there. I could go on and on, but I'm going to forget names and then I'm going to embarrass myself. So I want to thank you. So right now 15 plus thousand ballots have gone out to the ballot box. So we have the active registered voters and those who requested that to be mailed. Our voting box outside of 81 main is out there. It is doodly doodly chained to the ground and on camera. So it is as secure as we could make it. People have started to vote. So I'm going to go ahead and put a ballot in the box. So we know it's working. That box will be emptied several times a day while staff is in. And we made those corrections to the postcard based upon the other night's meetings. Those are at the printer and Greg, I don't know if you know, do we have a mail out date? I do not know. I'm trying to remember. Susan has told me, Don maybe you know, but the date does not come to mind for me. Sorry. Sorry to put you on the spot. It should be any day now. And for the people at home and watching this, this is the weird part of mailing. Just because you live in Essex and we have two post offices, please don't assume that it goes to our local post office. In fact, I believe it goes to a different, because it's a mailing ballot, a ballot, it goes to a different post office to be sorted. So if you think, well, it's two days and I'll send it in the mail. It's going somewhere else and then coming back. So if you're, if you're planning on mailing it in, please give yourself plenty of extra time. If you want to drop it off at 81 main, there's a box out front. If it gets to be the 13th, you have to go to the polls. Thank you, Evan. So board members, any questions or comments about the. Ballot going out. Okay. So we'll open it up to the public for questions. I see Jennifer Derevin has a hand up. You're muted, Jennifer. Jennifer, you're muted. We can't hear you. I show you as muted now. Now you're unmuted, but I still can't hear you. Her device audio is apparently not on. Jennifer, if you go to the top of the screen, there's three dots. If you click on that, there's device settings. And you may be able to adjust your microphone. Come back to her. Jennifer, let us know when your mic is operational. Just speak up and let us know. Is there anyone else from the audience who has questions or comments on the ballot at this time? If I may jump in just to make a suggestion. Sorry, this is great. Jennifer can't get her microphone to work. Maybe we could allow her to type in the chat in this instance and be able to really comment that way. Absolutely. You know, or if she'd like to call into the phone number. Jennifer, you can always also call in with your phone. The phone number is on the. Agenda. 802. 377. 3784. You're going to need to give her the meeting ID too. The meeting ID. I'll see. Five is four five four. Nine oh five. Six four nine. And the number symbol. Four five four. Nine oh five. Six four nine and the number symbol. Okay. I'm on now. Can you hear. Excellent. Okay. I'm Jennifer and this is my, I live in the town. And this is my first time to participate in the meeting. Thanks for letting me speak. I just want to, you know, voice. What my concern. Not really concerns why, you know. This time the merger has not been approved. For me. It's not a tax issue. For me is the principle is that. Majority people has said have a say. And then I personally not satisfied is because I read all this. About why we need to merge. Yes, people say why we need pros and cons. I did not see very solid data to persuade me. You, uh, most of things just to simply say, if we merge, we'll have that kind of benefit. If we merge it, that's just because as a junction, people pay double service. You did not, uh, you know, say, uh, very clear to me. It was not very clear to me that what kind of services access junction. Pay for us. Why they did not get any benefit at all. They simply just paid the money. That's it. And the other issue is why the merger will benefit environment issues. I don't get it. So I personally, I want to see, you know, you listed the pros and cons and then let us to make a decision, a sensible decision. This is the one thing. The other thing is I'm kind of a little bit upset about the reconsideration of merger within being that short period. It's just only one month. And I'm just thinking it's not fair for the no people to hear again, because when the day you decided to reconsideration had, there are already, is that 800 plus people to sign the petition? So that means these 800 plus people has already known that's about the 20% the votes. They have already know why on the other side we have zero people know. And just only within a month, I don't know if the time is enough for let everybody know every vote aware this information. I'm not so sure. Last time back in 2006, we reconsidered was it take two months, but this is only two months. I understand that you said put this April 13 can save this $25,000. But I'm just thinking this, I don't know if it's this is a good reason or good excuse to set up that short time. You know, I mean, a fair election. I think we all know a fair election is important. And then, you know, that democracy they rely on depend on the fair election. I just think the integrity of the election is priceless. We should not cut this $25,000 that matters. And personally, I have not received a ballot. This one, I just want to ask whoever set up the ballot where the merge will be showed up in that ballot. Is it back of the page or is it front of the page? Can someone know the ballot to tell me? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So thank you very much, Jennifer, for your comments. And so the town ballot that you'll be receiving, this is the only the, is it on the back of the school district ballot, Evan? So the one side is the school district voting. And the other side is the ballot question about merger. So it's two sides. Okay. We follow the state. Oh, go ahead. I think in that case, I think are we repeating the same mistake by the, you know, where the back in 2006, that's just the re-voting because the, the merger were to put the not in a visible place that, that's people make the concern and then decide to re-vote back in 2006 and 2007. So we are, you know, personally, I'm just thinking, are these or the playing the politics or this, or this means already whoever, you know, is it based on the people's choice or is based on few people's demand, this decision. And it's just, and then back in the Monday meeting, I have not attended, but I look into the agenda. You are already a presumable, like a merge, selecting board member. You already have presumed, without the voting, presumed that its merger will be decided. So that's, to me, is a kind of slap on my face. I have not voted. You already presumed, you know, it will be merged. Could I get some clarification on that, Jennifer? Because I don't recall anything at that meeting that had anything at all presumptuous that merger was passing. Okay. So in that case, but probably the whoever, Mr. Brian Shelton posted in the, in the front ethics forum, Frank said that, you know, there will be a process like board members. And then the board member will be virtually total 10 members. The virtually just Essex town, only four members. And the injunction will be six members virtually. But I wonder, but for the Essex town, we have two representative districts. I assume we have more population than exit junction. Am I right? No. Well, I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but the difference between the village and the town and population is about 800 people between the two. It's not a big difference in terms of population and enough to affect representation. But, but Jennifer, do you have any further questions because there's other folks waiting and we want to move on? Okay. Okay. I will quick. I will quick. I just hope I can, this is, I just want to say my opinion. And I've just to think that this kind of a remerge is not fair. We should not even start it. And then I sincerely want to, after this merger, I know this already decided to go. I sincerely said, please, if you have the power authority, amend this law. This is a divisive law. We should not have it. And then it should be amended. And then that, that will be, you know, to protect our democracy and election. Thank you for listening to me. Thank, thank you very much. And just to reiterate Jennifer, the, we're following state statute in all of the procedures we're doing in this situation. And the state statute allows any person who is, who is not satisfied with the turnout or with the result of a vote to file a petition of 5% of the registered voters of the community. And if that petition is signed, then the select board must put the question on the ballot. So we're just following the law or following the will of the folks who submitted the petition. So we have a second chance to, after this time, if I can make this 5% of it. No, it's only allowed once. So you can have the original vote and then the statute says you can do one reconsideration vote. And then that's it. So then it's, it's, it's the time is too short. That will be unfair election. Okay. I just to say to that, you know, I would just personally, I believe it's time too short. It's unfair. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your comments. Okay. Thank you. Okay. The next person I see is PD. Yes. It's Patty Davis. And I only really, when I worked in ophthalmology, when Dr. Chase did all these cataract surgeries on many, many people, he basically made his own rules and it took a lot of, a lot of digging and a lot of a lawyer type stuff. And some of us to even testify to prove that these people did not have cataracts. My point is I want to know about our attorney. I want to know his background. Is he a municipal attorney? And I would like to see the statute that allows the short one month period that the last speaker just spoke about, about it being too short. I would like to see that on the screen in writing that, that particular statute because again, my background is medicine, but you know, we had to base, you know, when people want to do their own thing, saying that that's the law, sometimes you have to question the law. So I'm questioning the law here and I, I actually know the secretary of state personally, but spent a while, but and I just wonder with state statute, I would like to see Jim condos and the attorney that you hired for the entire town see that he's actually representing the town outside the village by providing that statute that that timing is not too short. That's what I want. I understand the whole 5% thing. I get it because I went through it with the whole shooting ordinance thing and you know, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about state statute, fair election. Are you being fair to 11,600 people of the town outside the village where we have 800 more people than the junction? I looked it up. Thank you. So sure, Patty. I can't, I don't think I have the ability. Oh, there's my share of my screen. I'm going to share my screen super quick and I'm going to show you state statutes online. Title 17 chapter 55 sub chapter 2 section 2661 is rescission agreed consideration or rescission of vote. So I suggest you go to that site to look at the law and you will find that we are following it as closely as humanly possible. Our attorney has been on staff with us or in retainer with us for many years. He's a highly qualified municipal attorney. We have our, he has our complete trust. And so he also helps with us on all manner of municipal law issues and we trust him implicitly. He does an excellent job. We don't feel he has misled us in any way. So I really am sorry you feel that we are somehow pulling the vote. I'm not the only one that feels like it's a short time. I'm just, I'm just commenting after that past speaker and I want to know if legally there's anything to stand on here and I'm looking to it. Thank you. There isn't anything legal to stand on here. We are following the letter of the law regarding the timing and we're doing the best we can and we realize that it upsets some people. I think our next person who has their hand up is Betsy Dunn. Thank you. This is response to Jen. When we had, when Susan was taking the ballot and sending it to get folded, we asked her to have them folded so that the merger question would be on the open as you open it up. But given the fact that we all open our mail a little differently, you could pull it out and turn it and not see the merger question. But we do have it specifically so that it is upright so you can see that as the merger question, Jen. And there are four different sites that talk about in that same chapter that Elaine just gave you that talk about what the timeline is for having to vote. And those numbers are the Chapter 17. Let me just get to it. It's Title 17, Chapter 5. There's 2640 to look at. 2641 to look at. 2642. And then 2661. Those are the four sub chapters that discussion. They are not very clear. And I actually did talk to Jim Condos and Will Fenner and ask them and Janet Whitehouse to look at clearing that up and making it much more clear for people to understand what the timing is. Thank you. Thank you. Next person's hand is Ken Signo. Madam Chair, thank you. I just seek your clarification. Dennis asked about the wording on the postcard and asking that it be corrected from registered voters to active voters. And I heard Greg say that the cards had been sent to the printer, but I don't think I heard him say that the correction had been made. Thank you. Greg did say that the correction has been made. Thank you. I apologize. And that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you. Next hand I see is for Erin Dickinson. Hi, thank you. I have a quick question and this is probably an obvious one, but just looking for clarification of the difference between an active voter and a registered voter. I think Greg or Don. I'll give that a Don could probably help me with this, but I'll give this a Jai. You can be registered and people have been registered for years, but not vote. And the vote is what makes you an active, an active voter, not just your name on the registry. Don, you're, you're, you're not, and I'm hoping I got that correct. So a lot of times and one of the things that the clerk does is she will go through the roles. And sometimes they send out things that say, you know, Mr. John Doe at 123 A B C street. Are you still there? You know, you know, or have you, you know, and then if they don't get any response, they just assume they're, they're either not there anymore or they're not active. But the way to also get, you don't necessarily have to vote in the last election. You can contact the clerk's office and get back on the active role by just telling them you want to be on the active role. So thank you for that clarification. I do have a great question. Thank you. My follow-up is, so if somebody didn't vote in the last election, would they not be considered an active voter? Is it by the most recent election or is it kind of a, you know, history that's over a period of time? It's two national election cycles. So hopefully that helps you, Erin, two national elections. That provided a lot of clarification. Thank you. If somebody is inactive, John, and can they still call and ask for a ballot? They can. They'll be reactivated and the ballot will be mailed to them. Okay. They can also come the day of voting and get a ballot that day as well. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions or comments on the ballot going in the mail? I have a new hand. Oh, okay. I didn't see that, Erin. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No problem. So another question I have is, you know, for anybody who that maybe isn't an active voter, what are the places that are advertising that this vote is happening? I do share Jennifer's concern about the timing of the vote, of it being so quick after. So I'm just wondering what the outreach is for people who aren't active voters, how they might learn that this is happening. Evan or Craig? Well, first, you know, the timing is the state statute, no less than 30 days and no more than 60 days. So there really is that window. One of the reasons why we had the discussion to mail out a postcard was to let people know this vote is in fact occurring. And then one of the discussions tonight is what other public outreach does the select board want to do? I believe it's on or will be on the websites of the village in the town. We're trying to do these types of meetings. The Essex Westford school district has their meeting and budget and the village has its informational meeting as well. I believe that's, I should know that April 2nd. And so we're looking to put the word out and I know it's been on front porch forum almost every day with some type of comment from some residents. And so we'll also take other suggestions. And I also know Elaine correct me if I'm wrong. WCAX has done something channel 17. Town TV has done something. As a reporter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next hand I see is Dennis version. Yes, I just want to realliterate what Evan said about mailing your ballots back in being retired from the postal service after 35 years. The mail does get collected by the carrier from your mailbox. It gets sent over to a processing facility. And depending on what day to week you mail it. It depends on which facility goes through. They have a facility in Burlington, which is about a two or three day turn turnaround. Or it goes to white river junction could be four or five days. Plus with the COVID situation going on the lack of manpower they have. I suggest that the voters make your decisions. If you if you haven't made them already make them now and get it in the mail as soon as you can. Dennis, thank you and thank you for your service. And please everybody. I mean we some of us you vote yay vote nay. Just vote. Come to the, you know, come to the ballot. We have it safe as best we can. But thanks Dennis. I couldn't remember which other facility. White river junction is the one. That we have heard. Sometimes has a little bit of a slow down. Thank you. Okay. Ryan Sheldon. Can you hear me Madam chair. Just a quick question. I understand some of the community's concern about the quickness of the turnaround of this election. And I am I'm trying well. What this is this is a day on which the parts of Essex are having elections anyway. And I sort of what is the sort of general outreach that Essex normally does to let people know that there's an election. I'm I'm. Is this should we do be doing more or less for this one. Thank you. Well, I think what Evan just described the outreach that he just described is pretty much what we do for everything. Every election with the exception of the coverage by local news. We always do the town meeting television forum type things, but you know, network news, if they decide to cover it, they decide to cover it. Would you agree, Evan that we're not deviating other than the postcard, which is an extra step. The only other thing is we normally put out banners and signs telling people there's a vote coming. And we need to look at our we just. We're a little we haven't decided yet about the banners because they people have made comment that. And so, but we'll see. But in general, we've had other banners out telling people when the day of vote is. That's about the only other thing we've done. So, so if I may, so if I may. Brian, Brian, excuse me for just a second, I think dawn has something to add to that. And that this is normally a school vote only. They send home a school newsletter with the information so that every school child's parent also knows there's a vote. Is that help, Brian? It does help. I think my question, I guess is, is it fair to say that the town is doing more outreach, including press and this postcard than than one normally does for an elect for an April town election? I guess yes. Thank you. Okay, I see Aaron, you have your hand up again, or is that leftover? I'm sorry, this is another really easy question, but just trying to get a little bit more understanding. So I know that the ballots are being sent to active voters. Are the postcards being sent to all residents or are the postcards only being sent to active voters as well? I believe they're going to active voters. Is that correct, Devin? I'm going to double check with that. I think so because that's the list. I'm going to call residents in Essex. So then it would be safe to assume that if there were any active voters that maybe would be interested in being reactivated that they would see it via that postcard. Great. Okay, great. Thank you. I'll set Aaron. I am. Sorry. Okay. Patty. Yeah, I was going to ask the same question Aaron did. So thank you, Aaron. Because the only reason I'm speaking up is because there's a lot of older people in the town that I've even spoken to that said, what? We're voting again. And they don't play on the computer. They don't do Facebook. They don't have anything. They miss the actual paper. Essex reporter. And they don't have anything. They have no clue. But my question is I already received my ballot, but I never received a postcard and it's my neighborhood here on hillside all around us is a lot of older people. And they are not. They're retired and they're clueless. So I don't know, you know, other than verbally seeing them on the street when I'm walking the corgis. We got to do a better job to reach it out to this 35% of our population, which is over 65 over here in the town. I'm worried that they're not going to have a clue. So Brian Sheldon and Aaron made some good points, but I feel like we need to do something. Do you have any. Is there any ideas you can give me that maybe I can help to get it out to these voters in office sand hill that are elderly that don't have a clue. And we don't, we haven't received a postcard. So I just, in case they mail it back, I, when are we all going to receive a postcard? We have not. Thank you. Lane, you're muted. But Patty, you've mentioned a few times before that the postcards have not yet gone out yet. They are going out later this week. Okay. So everybody in the town will get one. So that's good. They'll have something because I don't think they know. All right. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Ken. Thank you. Thank you. Back in 2007, I wasn't a conscious voter at the time, barely conscious citizen. I'm afraid to embarrass to say. Can somebody remember back, what kind of effort was spent on that reconsideration vote as it compares to this one? I wasn't really conscious then. So I'd be, I have no way to compare. Is it similar or are we doing more now or did we do more then? Anybody remember? Thank you. I don't think there was anything, anyone here today who was on that board at the time. Dawn, you've been on the BCA for many years. Perhaps you might remember. I don't believe postcards are ever mailed like we're mailing this time. I do know the information was in the Essex reporter and it was, and there were banners up, but I don't believe their postcards have ever been mailed until these last couple of elections. So I would say we're doing more. Thank you, Dawn. Thanks, Dawn. Betsy Dunn. But as the point was made, the reporter was a paper that came to everybody's house. Yes. And everybody saw it. And I'm not sure how to take what Brian was saying because it sounded like he was saying we're doing plenty. And I'm not always sure that we're doing plenty. It's how you go about it and how it's put out there. And I just think this is a really important vote. And as I said, every meeting in the past week or two, we've had that having the information about separation is really important. And we did not warn that for this meeting. No one knew that that thing from Sarah, which is wonderful to have, was going to be talked about or discussed. And people are not aware of it. And that's something that so many people, as you watch the different postings on Facebook or on Friendsports forums, are wondering what is the deal. And I asked you specifically about that and that they would need to have that information. And it could have been on the agenda for tonight's meeting. And I'm very disappointed that it wasn't. Thank you. Thank you. Just so you know, it will be discussed this meeting and it won't be the only opportunity to do so. And this is the very first time the board is seeing it. So I don't even know how much discussion there's going to be just so you know. But it's not going to be the only time that this information is shared with the community. Is there anybody who wishes to speak who has not yet spoken? We've had quite a few repeats. Robin Moore. Thank you. I was hoping someone could refresh my memory. As to when the school budget. Votes moved to early April. The last time I checked my taxes for my school budget are significantly higher than the taxes for municipal services. And I would hope people are planning to vote in April. To have their say on such a large budget. And so I'm just curious how long that's been going on. That it's been early April. I'm just curious how long that's been going on. Do you answer that? Not with any specificity. I mean, certainly before I came on the board. And before I was on the prudential committee. In the junction as well. Don probably has a better. Yeah. Don. One of the values of being old. I served on the town school board in 1995. And it was April then. I don't know how long it's been. I don't know how long it's been. I don't know how long it's been moved it, but I know since 1995, it's been in April. And that's what I thought. It's been quite a long time that we voted on a very large budget item in early April. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Gabrielle Smith. Hi. Does anyone on the board or staff on the call know the voters? I do not. Well, I'm asking the question because I'm hearing a lot of concerns that we need to reach voters to make them aware that there's a vote. And I think it's over 14,000 people. Like at my house, I'm aware there's a vote because I got a ballot in the mail. It looks a lot like the one I just got a month ago and two I got last year. And I open it up and it looks like a ballot that I have to vote on. And someone refreshed my memory if the ballot for the town outside the village otherwise are different. Does it say you have to flip over to the other side? Does it say, Don, is there another, is there an indication that I need to flip it over? I believe it says to check both sides. The postcard also says to check both sides. And the village ballots have yellow stickers and the town ballots have quite a sticker. And they're color coded ballots to go with the stickers. So hopefully yes. Thank you. Thank you. Bob Bates. Bob, are you there? Can you hear me now? Sure can. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Just to clarify or perhaps give some clarity to as to the date of the school vote. I believe the rationale for changing it way back when had to do with the fact that often teacher salary negotiations were not completed in February in time or actually, I guess it's January in time to warn the budget for the meeting based on the proposed budget. I think that was the original rationale if I remember correctly. Okay. Thanks, Bob. Yeah. All right. Are there any other residents in the audience who wish to speak who have not yet spoken to the meeting? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All right. Are there any other residents in the audience who wish to speak who have not yet spoken? Irene. Thank you. I'm looking at a checklist on my computer from the end of January. So it's not exactly current, but out of the a little over 16,000 voters, 812 of them were challenged. The rest were active in case that's helpful for anyone who's looking for a ratio. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Betty pulan. Hi, this is also my first time participating in one of these recent meetings. First, I wanted to answer a question somebody asked about what the town outside the village ballot looks like and how it reads. First, I would not just got mine today. First, to confirm what Betsy Dunn said, when I posted it, I was presented with the backside of the of the ballot, which includes the the reconsideration vote. A recent question was whether it the ballot asks you to vote both sides. It does say that but it says it on the back of the ballot which is where the only item on the back of the ballot is the special tone meeting so or the special vote so I just thought I'd clarify that provide the answer to the question that was asked. My question has to do with voters understanding what is being presented for merger votes for the two parts of the community. If someone is just looking in like at the ballot that I'm looking at I just see the same question about merger that I voted on in March. If I want to take a nice hard look and go back through the booklet that the community of the town provided to me on page 21 there's a section that says is separation option right now and would separation mean the Essex police what would it mean for the police department in Essex rescue. I want to read just the next two sentences. It says the select board and trustees agree that merger is the best option therefore neither is pursuing separation. Separation does not provide as many benefits to the community as murder. So if I'm an out of if I'm a voter in what do we call it district 8 one is that what it is. How do how does voter know that that is different now. I realize that that may be an agenda item tonight but I'm just concerned that voters don't have the full story anymore and I'm also concerned and I realize the reconsideration vote is was needed to take place given the number of of people who signed the petition. I believe I also understand that the separation vote needed to be included on the village ballot because of the petition with so many signed voters so many signatures but it presents an entirely different situation for merger where half of our greater community was already working on a backup plan for merger and the other half of the community is not working on a back does not have a backup plan to merger and probably doesn't even know the other half of community does. So I'm not really sure exactly what my question is but it's it's it concerns me and I just feel like half the community here is somewhat in the dark and perhaps not even being a position well for the next steps should merger fail. So thanks for letting me voice my concerns. Betty, thank you and I think I understand what you're saying and I guess what I could my response to that would be that when the first merger vote was put on the ballot the majority of the select board and the majority of the trustees agreed that merger was the was the thing that we supported and therefore we did not pursue investigating separation because there was general agreement amongst the boards that merger was the better path to take and so that vote occurred and the vote that's happening on the 13th is not a change in terms of what's in that merger plan there. So technically you could say that the board still are feeling that merger is the best way forward for the community. The separation question is not for the town to decide and so for the town if the options are merger or nothing else is happening and the status quo remains until something else is done but the village residents have made an advisory vote it's not it's an advisory vote it is not an official requirement but they are thinking about plan B because that's what they feel they need to do. So the ground has changed a little bit you're right but it's not something that town that the select board can you know has any input input in at this time so I understand where you're coming from and it's confusing but that is where we are at this moment because a recision a reconsideration vote has been requested. Oh go ahead Betty. The you said I mean the the the vote it's an as I understand it is an advisory vote in the village it was you know they needed to put on the ballot because they had enough signatures on the petition but the trustees are taking it seriously they're already moving forward with take some steps on that if I understand it while they won't actually they're defining what the committee will look like will be on that committee what the parameters of that committee are and I think I heard Andrew Brown at both the trustee meeting and the joint meeting earlier this week say that he personally feels that it's a that mandates not the word he used I don't think but that he feels that the voters have spoken and that that's the direction they should take so I realize my question here may be more than what's just on the ballot but I feel that there's half of the community is working on your plan B and the other half the community is does not working on the pin B I feel we should but I also feel that this half of the community that outside the junction should know know what what the other half is doing in this election so anyway thank you for your answers and for letting me raise my concerns again thanks no you're absolutely welcome and I guess the outcome of the April 13th vote will be when the select board thinks about plan B whether there needs to be one or not so are there any other folks in the audience who have not yet spoken Scott Moore hi good evening I just wanted to say as a volunteer that helped out on Monday and Tuesday to fold and put ballots into thousands and thousands of envelopes there is no page numbering on the ballots town or village ballots so realistically the front or the back is kind of what you make it you can choose what you think is the front you can choose what you can make the back the way I was thinking about it really is there is this school side and then the opposite to the school side is the municipal side so really I don't feel there's a front or a back after looking at thousands and thousands and thousands of them so that was all thank you very much okay thank you okay I see three people who have spoken multiple times and I'm just gonna put it out one more time for folks who haven't had a chance to ask a question yet ma'am I'm sure this is Evan if I can first I want to thank Betty this if this was her first time that she did thank you very much it does take a bit you know courage or whatever to do this we appreciate it so thank you for coming tonight virtually and speaking up and being heard so thank you for that I was in attendance at the village board meeting I just want to maybe talk a little bit about what Andrew said what village president Andrew Brown said he said if the citizens of the village vote in the advisory he and others should take it very seriously that that is the will of the people he has spoken to me other times many other times still believes merger is the right way to go you just have to as an elected member you have to take elections very seriously and what those vote totals tell you so I was there that Monday so I'm paraphrasing him but I just wanted people to understand that from his perspective because I don't believe he's in the audience tonight thanks Evan so let's go with Patty Dennis and Betsy and then we will move on to the next agenda item I just have something real quick I just wanted to clarify about the Essex reporter that a lot of the older residents in at least an eight one they missed the paper copy of the Essex reporter they don't go on the Essex reporter on the on their tablets or computers they missed going to the mailbox and getting that Essex reporter and having everything explained to them during the whole process before the the vote comes up so do you guys know if the Essex reporter is going to be back in circulation again does anyone know we understand that it's no longer going to be printed oh that's terrible yeah well anyway I just wanted to clarify that and then the other quick thing I wanted to mention was I'm curious because you know I hate to look at things from a legal standpoint but I'm interested in law I guess I when you say advisory when the when I know it has nothing to do with with us in the town it's up to the village if the village says okay are you know that in that advisory sentence I read somewhere it said that if the time if the if the voters know again it says something about well we'll share a police department I mean that's not that's only the village saying an advisor they would like to advise we'll share the police department I guess my question is when when I don't know about separation I want I'm asking when you separate that means total total cut the cord separate and then you have a discussion about whether you share police or you share fire this that and the other thing I don't think you can just put on the ballot well or can you just put on the ballot we're gonna we're gonna talk about as an advisory thing separation possibly sharing the police department I mean you can't that's nothing we voted on the town outside the village had no say in that I'm just what does that mean I guess I want that clarified on ballot I the Patty not speaking for the citizens who created the petition but I think what it means is what they're saying is they would like the trustees to pursue a separation that does not include any other inter municipal agreements other than the possibility of sharing police services that's my understanding of it and we really you know it's up to them so it's okay I didn't know what advisory man I didn't know if that was a legal term that well it is it is an advisory is this is the community telling you what we would like you to do which is different from a regular vote which is binding and that the results require you to do it okay thank you yep Dennis then Betsy yes has the postcard been printed yet can Greg Greg can you answer that please Dennis I don't believe it's been printed yet we authorized it to go to the printer and I have to check with the administrative assistant who's doing that to see exactly where it stands in that process but it's been approved by the select board and by management with after that can we add a can we add a line on that that postcard especially for people that don't have computers and stuff like that if you're a registered voter and you want to vote to contact the town clerk for a ballot especially if they're not active if they're not an active voter but they are a registered voter and we add something to where they say you know if you want to vote contact if you don't if you don't receive a ballot contact the town clerk I will defer to the select board if they want me to try to make that change that after check with Linda to see if there's still time the here's the approved postcard but the edit that was made through the night being mailed to all active voters there is an opportunity to learn more about the merger vote with a few websites for calling the manager's office at this phone number here certainly if somebody called we would happily direct them to the clerk's office to figure out how they can get registered okay thank you so Betsy and then Betty and then we will move on thank you Elaine so yeah they are going to have an advisory that they're already starting to think because George Tyler said they were and I know that he's probably a big part of that piece there and if they've had this conversation has our select board had the time to consider for themselves for us if they decide to do this what do we have and what do we do because it would seem like we are being reactive rather than being proactive in this conversation about separation because if we separate things that we do that we we spend the money on like the rolling stock that we've given them money for and it's theirs do we take back our money and they can have their rolling stock and they got to figure out how to get the money to take care of that do they take care of the public works the other parts of pieces of public works and the police department they use it more than we do by what the policemen say and so do we charge them more than what they're being charged now because they use it more than the town does have you started those kind of conversations amongst each other what's my question well I think that's it's premature because the outcome of the vote has not been determined and the direction of the other municipality it's inappropriate for us to prognosticate on too much on what another municipality is doing and so I would leave that to the select board after the vote results are known to have those conversations if they need to Betty thanks just two small points of clarification Scott Moore's comment about front and back to the ballot one side of the ballot says official ballot has the date says it's the meeting etc so that strikes me that it feels very much like the front page or page one so and then secondly I just want to thank Evan for helping to clarify Andrew's comments and I hope I didn't miss or represent that it's good to hear that he's pro-murder though I don't want to say though in addition that the trustees are moving have you know setting up a committee for for implementing plan B and I appreciate the chair Elaine at your comments about we pretty much have to wait to the book we'll see what the results of the vote are you know we so we'll have to see and then you know we'll go from there and then just one other point I I was new to the conversation here to Barger and some of the recent conversations but I have been involved with the town and I served on the Economic Development Commission for some more years so anyway thank you thank you very much Betty okay we have one new audience member who wants to speak so Mary post go ahead and then we will move on hi thank you if I remember correctly or my understanding if it's correct was that one of the issues about merger is that a lot of these questions that now you're saying we have to wait until the vote that a lot of those questions were not answered ahead of time and those are the things that we wanted to know how would everything work out unless I'm getting confused here between separation and merger but it's like I think it would be good to know what is going to happen either way and it feels like we haven't gotten all the answers thank you Andy for all the work you did putting on front porch forum just to answering in a non-political way answering the questions that people have been begging you know to have answered and I really appreciate that so I think now if people have questions now is the time to try to have the answers before we take a vote because that could sway our vote thank you okay thank you all right let's move on to the last item on the agenda 5b consider approval of additional outreach regarding April 13th vote so Evan do you or Greg what would you like how would you like to proceed well so as you can hear by the people on the meeting I want to take it maybe a step back this the city it's a citizen petition the select board is following the state law they had enough valid signatures it has to go out the ballot no less no less than 30 days no more than 60 days the select board had a meeting to discuss what were those options you had a election coming up on April 13th did you want to put it on that ballot or do it as a complete separate one item ballot some other day before 60 days from the previous election you chose April 13th so we then talked about what type of public outreach of any more do you want to do for this repo like tonight we keep getting questions why don't we put out any information about separation most of if not all the elected officials that are currently on the village board and this like board served and felt that you didn't want to put out information about separation because separation was not on the ballot and it was not the preferred way to go you in general said merger of all the things that you studied would be the preferred method merger was what you put on the ballot but yet people keep asking and asking and what about this and what about that and can you keep the police what about the clerk what about public works who bought what so one of the things I would tell you is it's not that simple it's just not over the last several years the village in the town have been sharing personnel services buildings equipment and so it is not an easy task to go through all the all the budget items because you have to make assumptions and that's where things get very dicey assumptions the town grand list is bigger than the village grand list the populations are about the same but the town is a little bit larger the town is 31 square it's there actually 36 square miles of which the village is about five square miles so there's lots of ways you can look at separation and look at what could happen but I also want to go back to the village board did not ask for this and neither did the select board that vote occurred two two weeks ago was it two weeks now I'm losing time it was two weeks ago it was done it lost by 19 votes which you know again anybody could say well over 15,000 votes that's pretty darn close it may very well be but it didn't pass but Sarah and I were talking about well they keep asking they want some information how can we do something very simple short and give an example and that's what you have before you is just in a couple of places and Sarah I see a couple of places where maybe it helps people understand just a little bit more and let's have a discussion about it Sarah do you want to take over for me since I'm at the end of my rope no I do I just quickly before we talk about what I wrote out for you you know to you earlier this week Evan you know I I hope that any of you who've been at presentations of mine over the last two and a half years remember hearing me you know it's not it's high but cringe when when I'm asked to predict the future because that is so far out of my comfort zone I think that's a reasonable you know a reasonable feeling especially for a professional accountant whose job it is to make sure things are accurate and when we talk about separation and when people start to ask well what would it cost just you know the same as as you know can you guys all see me okay my screen's doing funny thing I've lost all video but I can still do this okay that's happened to me as well so it's not just me when I think about separating there are so many things that I just cannot begin to cost out for example would we separate the land records that are in the vaults they're not currently separated by properties that are in the village versus properties that are outside the village and we create a new book every month of land records would we do that that's a question that I can't answer would we cost police services on grand list because that's the only way to ensure that every taxpayer pays the same effective tax rate for the same access to service which is the definition of tax equity or would we cost it based on some sort of weighted average of square miles for patrol cars versus how many officers you want on you know on call at night or during the day these are all questions that I can't begin to answer just on my own back in September I attempted to illustrate that in a very long memo that was about 32 pages of where the money comes from now where does it go which shows you some of the inequities that we're seeing department by department through the town and village and then gave a couple ranges of separation numbers and and ask some of these questions well if we split police based on you know one thing it might be this versus you know another thing it might be this and we come up with basically the same mechanics which is the tax rate outside the village increases the tax rate inside the village decreases and that's a result of this the inequities that we're seeing right now so one of the ways to fix that is through merging another way is through complete separation another way is just really look closely at what we have going on now and asking ourselves who pays for what and why this is all very complicated it does not help anybody who's not steeped in it the way I am or the way the board members are to really understand what's happening and so what I what I attempted to do earlier this week for Evan is say okay listen which is one which is something I say to him all the time listen if the town tax levy is about 14.2 million dollars in the upcoming budget and the town loses 42 percent of its grand list we by separating we know we would unravel the financial um agreements we have now and we're talking about sharing police and I think based on grand list is a good way to start that conversation so that is like the the least number of possible assumptions that I could make right town loses 42 percent of grand list unwind existing agreements split police that still results in a 31 increase to the tax rate outside the village now we know that those are not the only things that are going to happen but those are the things I feel the most comfortable telling you will happen if we were to separate another way to look at this would be if the town loses 42 percent of its grand list in order to maintain the exact same tax rate that the town has currently six million dollars would need to be cut out of that tax levy now about a little more than half of that is taken care of by unwinding the current financial agreements and sharing police so this is where we get into the memo and this is what the memo attempts to lay out right if you wanted to say I want to separate and I don't want my taxes to go up for town outside the village how could we make that happen and then that is a good place then we can start the discussion where are we going to make these cuts where do we see there being excess staff if we're only serving the 10 000 people instead of the 20 000 what you know this doesn't quite address capital because the town's also going to lose about 225 000 dollars in the two cent capital tax that's that's going to the capital fund but from a general fund perspective you'd have to reduce that tax levy by six million dollars to have the same tax rate okay 3.3 million of that is taken care of by unwinding the financial arrangements we have now and sharing police I know I'm being repetitive sometimes for me it takes it a couple times to sink in that leaves 2.7 million more dollars that would have to be cut out that levy to maintain that same tax rate and that's the piece that's just unknown that is there are so many assumptions what would we cut do we need more staff and this is really focused from a town lens right because what we know is on the village side they're going to need a man right so they both pay for the manager the town's going to lose the village contribution to the manager the manager is technically employed under the town's ein therefore my assumption would be that position would continue with the town the village would have to hire one we currently have five finance staff four or town employees one is village we'd probably have a shift over but the village also currently contributes to the hr director and the finance director and the village employees the support staff for the management team so some of that actually nets out and these are really the intricacies that we can't get to if we're just trying to boil it down to one number or one sound bite these are the kind of things that would take half day workshop for us all to get in a room and and look at some different costing examples so what I want to share with the boards which are shared with Evan earlier this week is this I can tell you this for a fact in order to get to the same tax rate you have now after you lose 42 percent of your grand list unwind the agreements share police by grand list you still have to cut another 2.7 million dollars that is completely stripped of any assumptions that I might make that's the number you're looking to work with and so that's what I've put together in the in the memo to Evan with the number so that my math can be followed by my you know other math enthusiasts in the audience and then we also put together just a couple concrete examples of like what fire you know then there's a few other examples fire capital and bonding in debt so what would that look like in different scenarios to give folks I don't know like an understanding on a smaller scale of what these things could look like in the future again I understand that this memo I was here for the vote to allow it on to tonight's discussion 3 to 2 I understand that this is late in the game but these are the questions that we are getting you know a lot of as staff and it's now and so I'm gonna hand it back to Evan but I'd like the board to have an opportunity to chat about it and and see what y'all want to do and go ahead just to wrap up and put a bowl kind of on what Sarah was saying this discussion is about whether or not to do additional outreach regarding the upcoming vote and and Sarah put these numbers together we wanted to bring it to the boards and give you an opportunity like Sarah said we we keep getting questions you put them tonight what does separation mean what does it look like we wanted the board to have a chance to to review Sarah's memo to review these numbers to ask questions up there and then figure out if you want to do anything with in addition to anything else they might do with outreach so it was we originally put this item on the agenda sort of as a blanket catch all in case um you wanted to do more after tonight's meeting and then once I was able to put these numbers together we really felt that the board should take a look at them and review and ask questions and decide if they're worth sharing um beyond this meeting and I'm just going to add thank you to staff for all their hard work as I started there are so many variables there are so many unknowns that one could go through I don't think and look I'm new to the state I'll give you that three years I think in about 60 years I could be considered partially vermonter no 70 no no you have to trace your lineage back yeah exactly all right so I'll just never be considered a vermonter the the intricacies of trying to get down to a number it is is really just it cannot be done because the boards have not met together and said hey what do you think this would look like Sarah mentioned the clerk's office the police department um finance the manager's office it all adds up to different little pieces of money and decisions but it also boils down to how the boards work or don't work together after these votes do you guys and women continue to work as colleagues and and in a dialogue or is it going to be hurt feelings and and other things and you're going to go back to your corners whatever the corner of the town is in the village and you're just going to go back and it's just going to be like we don't want anything to do with each other we can't say that we hope it will not be that way if we felt you were better together today why would we not feel that tomorrow but we just can't give you those numbers we can give you a round we can give you something to think about but there and then the last piece is we're a dillon's rule state and that's just a dumb respectfully dumb comment from the state we have no authority except for which what the state gives us even though you pass merger or you pass separation it's the state that tells you what you can and cannot do and we have no idea what the state would actually do with either the merger vote or the separation vote it should it occur but i can tell you in talking to legal counsel and stuff they they would be very interested in what arrangements the village and the town have made together and what are those tax impacts because that's what they're concerned with as well in the merger so it's just hard to tell people what's the right number because it really depends on a lot of decisions but we wanted to show some examples that we thought were the cleanest clearest simplest ones we could probably do without sarah using supercomputer time so and we'll answer any questions and if it doesn't get posted it doesn't get posted but we didn't want to miss this opportunity to at least have the discussion thanks Evan and thank you sarah for putting pulling out your pencil once again to help us grapple with these numbers um couple just a couple things off the top you know this is the first time we're seeing these and so the board needs time to look at them um i also recall i forget which meeting and which board member said it but there was some reticence about talking about separation because that is not what the town is voting on the town is voting on reconsidering merger if the village is going to do a advisory vote on the potential of separation that is their decision and we kind of need to wait and see what happens with that before we put it on the table to invest that much more time in the conversation so you know the question initially was what outreach materials are we going to add to the outreach we've already done and so your question is should we add this separation information to that and so board members that's the question we need to decide this evening do we want to do more outreach do we want to include separation information in that outreach that's the question so board members any questions or comments i have a few uh i guess i'm kind of curious this is not really for you elaine but for andi and don why would you not want to talk about this but i i feel like this is critical and honestly i i i'm trying to ask as respectfully as possible why you would not want to even discuss it i can tell you on my part patrick is that we're voting exactly as we voted in march on the merger we did not vote on separation we did not receive a petition asking for information on separation and i think if we put out too much information it's going to be too confusing to the voters as people said earlier we're not getting the message out well but now we're going to send out even more information i think they're going to find it even more confusing that's why andi i have a couple concerns one is the the fact that this came out pretty late we haven't had a chance to really review it digest it compared to what was been shown before um and you know the other you know i it did this this i don't know i i i guess i have to ask the question is this the same one that greg sent out uh to us yesterday or is it was it updated since then uh wasn't clear to me okay so it's the same one it's the same document okay okay okay so so there i i have concerns with the the trying to make it too simple um because you know if you didn't you didn't pull out debt you didn't pull out regional services you know like the if the village separates they're going to have to pay a county tax they're gonna you know there's in the you know a green mountain transit i don't know what their formula is they don't really tell people tell people what it is but ridership is a big thing and a lot of people ride the bus that goes to the junction i don't know if that will change the ratio of who pays how much you know there's there's there's you know big big pieces here that we haven't included and when i look when i look back at what you did in um uh i guess it was so it's september 26th they did 26th 23rd or 26th the september that that earlier memo that i thought was pretty excellent with regard to the assumptions that you did make in the fact that you made two different assumptions and you set a range of of where things could be and i i think we should rely on that rather than coming up with a a new set and i understand it's a there's a difference too because it's f y 20 versus f y 22 and i i understand that completely and i and and so the so the numbers are different and hard to compare just looking at them directly i understand that but i think there's there's there's and and i'm gonna be i guess i'm gonna be blunt here i think this overstates the the the budget needs of the town and understates the budget needs of the village doing it in this very simple way where we're not divvying up the the extras like the the county tax the the gmt the um sx rescue you know those those other things that haven't been included and so um i i i'm i'm i've gotten to the point where i'm okay with sharing this information but i'd like to make i'd like to have the numbers be more realistic than than what's currently in this memo and and again i i do like the compare at the side by side comparison of the two ranges the assumptions that were made there and i fully understand that there's a possibility that the boards will need to have all i mean we will have to have regardless we're gonna have to have a lot of discussions about how things are gonna go you know beyond a couple weeks from now um and and all of those assumptions yes need to have big discussions and could take months to get to work through in either case whether we're you know however you know wherever things go um and that we also may need to have a discussion to say well what else do we need to cut to make the tax um the tax rate acceptable in a budget that's going to pass because that's that's you know that's the other concern here is that whether we you know either either an emerging scenario or a separation scenario you still have to have a budget that's going to pass um and and how you get there is a is a major major discussion and and so anyway that that's that's that's a future discussion but anyway the content of this again sorry i'd like i liked what was in the september memo um if that you know like you said it's it was uh i forget how many pages it was but yeah it was a lot of pages there were some there were some really good charts in there that talked about all the the merger stuff and i know that the the uh village website has links to each of those different sections you had segment one segment two segment three those are all out there on on the the the village website that's still the same information that was out there but out there previously and i think we ought to share the same information here rather than the combined with a new scenario do you mind if i comment back or do you mind if i talk now yeah yeah sorry okay um i agree i spent a lot of time on that memo um a lot of time making all the boxes line up actually but you know a lot of time compiling the data too and i i think it's one of the better pieces of work that i've put out over the last two and a half years with regard to merger status quo separation and i would agree with that i think the new piece of information from what i put together earlier this week is is this is this one not is this that if you wanted to make the tax rate the same as is now you'll have to find about two point two point seven million dollars in additional cuts this is by no means what i think the budget for the town outside the village would be and the village because i did not go through and analyze each department it is really to show this one point which is if you wanted to maintain your tax rate you would have to do an additional two point seven million dollars in cuts and i think that's a concept that we could all use as a launching point for a discussion the last thing i want to you know mention is that in my mind if we end up talking about separation we're all in a room together with like a white board and a projector and we're brainstorming with different columns and different thoughts and we're going department by department and we're imagining what these things would look like and talking about what that might cost and that's how we get down to you know a real separation analysis and that's a big collaborative you know messy colorful process and that was set to I saw Betsy's comment pop up September 28th is when the presentation was given and I think the memos dated September 23rd so those are just my comments I I hope that we can do lots of big nerdy workshops around accounting anyway so that's all I wanted to add so thank you Andy so so can can can we see the memo and I want to see where that 2.7 million is because I don't remember that number anywhere in the memo definitely um I actually have it up Greg if you don't mind I have it so right in this memo so I I just noted this is a memo I wrote to Evan earlier this week just as a response to the increased number of questions we've been getting and trying to provide some clarity I assume you're seeing it now I only have my one screen up tonight okay and then off the top like I I said a few minutes ago the town loses 42% of its grand list would have to cut six million dollars from its tax levy to maintain the same tax rate unwinding the existing financial arrangements is about 1.4 separating police based on grand list is about 1.9 and then that leaves oh right um yeah I don't see 2.7 in this anywhere that's that's where that's why that's why I asked if it was a different memo no I guess if you do if you had if you took out your your uh 10 key I'm not sure am I sharing my screen or just my file can you see my calculator now can I see a calculator okay that's that's okay I guess I've learned from sharing the wrong screen before but if I take that six million figure and I subtract the 1.4 million that we would get back or that the town that would shift back to the village by unwinding the existing financial arrangements and then I subtract that one um 1.9 million dollars that's the um cost of sharing police based on the grand list it's 2.69 so 2.7 million dollars left to come down to um a level tax rate so I apologize about that I mean like that was my big takeaway and apparently I got away from myself when I was trying to put words to my numbers yeah so so again this is very like it's very last minute and and I I agree with that but I do think that it's a good point a good launch point for discussion so I think if we have that 2.7 million number in there somewhere and also make some comment to say that not not you know not all of everything that is currently paid out of the town budget has been pulled out of that yet you know like these you know the the regional you know regional stuff which is 505,000 itself you know so there's there's a number of things that I just think it could be made cleaner yeah I'm fine with that like more like a Q&A right the question is if we were to separate how much would have to be cut to maintain the same tax rate and then the answer is this right and then it doesn't go into a lot of more detail but also to your first point do we need to hurry up and do this right now or is this maybe depending on what happens so I don't want to talk too much but I never actually really got around to my point I was asking the questions because I mean frankly I remember September and the detailed analysis and after that point I think that what happened is that in the community a lot of people use portions of that analysis to make their point while ignoring other parts of it so with respect while I understand that we may want to see more detail I see there is significant value in keeping it as simple as possible because you know I don't want to see necessarily another presentation where the you know the 2% capital tax and all of its equivalent gets left out or where the assumption of percentage of calls that a police station takes is how we should somehow be dividing up the amount of residents that pay for it because calls can happen to any location not involving people who live in that community why I mean it just that's just not how police work like police are there to be based you know to have the availability for any resident of town to call in it's it's not a per call basis but part of how we've gotten other analysis is like that on the community is that Sarah went into great detail in September and people just took fragments of it and I'm really worried that we have two weeks and that if we set Sarah into getting more detail into this that she's going to come out with something next week and then there's going to be a group of people who will set their calculators on it and will come up with a parts of numbers that they think look good to make their argument what I do think this represents and I think that it is honestly I blame myself in part as well as criminal that we haven't talked about it so far but we have been focused on merger and that was what I think the majority of the board felt was the direction to go but if we want to talk separation we need to be clear you know certainly there are aspects of this the county taxes the percentages that get paid to different communities that the junks should have to pay but a big part of my motivation was the fact that half of the community I think you know works under this inequity and the other half if this separation or excuse me if this merger plan doesn't go through there's no longer a 12-year phase in for those people that's a one-year roughly 30% 25% increase and I mean we can talk about how you know we want to look at some of those numbers and divide it up a little bit but that is I think for some people going to be an unbearable burden and we just haven't talked about it we've just let it go you know we've got two weeks left for this vote which is why I'm being more vocal about it now because I agreed with most of us I think who was sat on these boards and that I wanted to focus on merger because I felt that was the priority and where it needed to be but we have to accept the reality the reality is that a big chunk of our community is moving to separate and should that happen we as a select board certainly need to be aware of what we need to do to take steps to avoid this massive tax jump which there will be and we you know also need to make it aware to people who aren't aware yet that if this merger plan fails that there's likely not another one coming and that if it fails that separation is very likely what the junction is looking for next I mean that's just what we've seen happen over the last several days they have the petition enough excuse me they have enough people in there to petition the trustees to move forward with that I think we need to take it seriously and I'm afraid that we're not so yeah I would like this to be included in documentation going forward because I think that we need to have the entire community be made aware of as much as possible that they absolutely you know people should vote how they vote if they vote merger down there's a possibility separation is there and we haven't talked about it at all but I think we need to okay thank you Pat Vince or Don yeah if you don't mind I'll go please go right ahead yeah I uh I really like Sarah's uh idea of having like a kind of question and answer kind of um format to some of the to some of this like I like the packet um you know and I understand most of it but I I'm not sure that like I'm not sure that people who are going to like look at this and just see a wall of numbers and come out with something meaningful um you know I think we should try to distill this on into like it's look like what are the what are the what are the main questions that the data Sarah's provided us have have been raised and what are the answers from that data and then and then go forward with those that's that's my opinion on this okay Don I just I don't want to confuse people there's enough misinformation out there already I don't want to add to their confusion I mean if it's factual go ahead and post it whatever the postcard is going out very soon I'm assuming then this additional information should it go forward would be on the website Evan or are you contemplating another mailer or are you contemplating pulling the postcard back and editing it well no the postcard's at the printer it's being printed as we speak this would just be put up on the website and again when people ask the questions which you know we're grateful that they ask us questions this is just one of the things we'd like to show them as an example um and if it needs work and we spend a little bit more time to address some of Andy's comments in all of your comments we'll be happy to take a little bit more of that time and if the board says hey it's too confusing we've put out what we need to put out then that's another answer okay so board members we can do one of two things we can do a consensus at the moment and then go to the public or we can go straight to the public what is your preference I think we should listen to the public first okay all right first person whose hands hand I see up is Tracy Delphia hi good evening I'm having a little bit of sort of an ethical question for myself the board's discussing a document that was put together by our finance director I'm assuming that she's done a bang-up job just like she usually does but the public hasn't had a chance to look at that document to ask questions so I'm just curious as to when it would be appropriate to ask questions since I did have prior knowledge of this I held my comment for tonight because I thought that there would be some sort of presentation so the public knows what's in this document what the substance is and what the topics are so I'm curious as to whether I should bring up my comments now whether I should hold them when the public will be able to see this document and ask questions I'm just not really sure how the public should know what's being discussed since it wasn't in the packet more of a process question I guess well Tracy I think because you will become you're still a member of the public at the moment so you can make your comments here and now and yes you did see a copy of it I believe it's a public document now it will be published to the board packets section of the website so it will be added as an agenda amendment to the packet so people will be able to access it whether the board decides to add information to the website at the moment um I'm not thinking that the board is going to decide to add this entire memo in its entirety just put it up with no explanation I'm guessing there will be some massaging of this memo and then it will go up but you know I think that you're in a good spot to make your comments as a member of the public and then we'll continue the conversation and take your comments into consideration okay so this will be brought up as a public document for the public to be able to give input on in a public session before a decision is made by the select board is that correct no that's not what I said what I'm saying is I'm so I'm in an awkward position here as are you because you are taking my place on this board and so you're trying to be a public member and trying to anticipate work that's going to be done on the future board and I'm trying to not be too influential on anything because this is my last meeting so bear with me please what I'm anticipating is that the board will most likely I can't even talk like that we have we have to have that discussion I don't I can't answer the question Tracy but if it were me I would not put anything additional on the current postcard I would let the postcard go out and then let the board members discuss this document and whether they want to move it forward it and Madam Chair just to be clear the postcards at the printer it's being printed so there is no opportunity for that this is just whether it gets put up in the FAQ section of the website and the only other opportunity you are scheduled to have a board meeting on April 5th that is normally that is the organizational meeting as well but that's the last meeting and that's seven days before you know eight days before the election what I think might be a good course of action that I would recommend at this point in time and even after public comment is to say the memo could go back to staff for editing and presented to the select board at a later time okay thank you thank you Irene and then Ken thanks very much I heard Sarah say that there's a 2.7 million dollars of cuts that the town outside the village would need to make could that also be looked at as 2.7 million dollars in tax increases to meet the budget Sarah Elaine for Sarah it depends upon the will of the select board and the will of the voters so um let's imagine for a minute that that is a true statement I I agree with Andy there's a lot that is not here but let's just say it's 2.7 million dollars um the cost of merger to the town outside the village is about 2 million dollars given the percentage 58 percent of the 3.5 million dollars that we're being asked to pay in a merger situation so you're saying for another 0.7 million dollars the town outside the village gets to have its assets and control them completely and gets to say goodbye to the village and all this back and forth that we've had since 1958 I think a lot of folks in the town outside the village for 0.7 million dollars would gladly take that so I guess my request is if we're going to communicate anything could we please communicate this time around because question on the ballot is the same as March could we please communicate the benefits of status quo and talk about the benefits of merger I would see one of the benefits of status quo as we maintain the economies of scale that we have right now due to the consolidations we've already done what separation does is it as you said unwinds them and it does cost not just the town outside the village but the village a lot more money and if anyone doubts the fact that the village could have separated long ago the fact is they have not they have pushed and pushed for merger because separation is unaffordable and whether or not a nine by any question passes in the village on April 13th or not separation is not affordable for the village and I believe very strongly that it would go down once the separation plan was founded so once again I would request that we take the vote in front of us status quo versus merger and flesh out those numbers and let's please talk about the advantages of status quo thank you can signal them thank you madam chair I find myself surprised that I'm in 100 agreement with something that you said I'm going to try to paraphrase it it would correct me if I'm wrong it would be inappropriate to prognosticate on a village vote something to that effect anyway I couldn't agree more it's often pointed out as it should be that the select board represents the population of the whole town so I wonder why we would be presenting information on a question that is not even on the ballot your constituents will be voting on something that doesn't include that that's right there's nothing on the town ballot about separation separation is not even on the village ballot what is on the village ballot is a non-binding request to write a city charter based on a petition presented to a different governing body not the select board that body will be publicizing that question quite a bit on April the 7th at their annual informational meeting even if it passes there are challenges as George Tyler just explained a couple of days ago he said that the request as posed asks for something that cannot be done at least not in the short term I assume is what he meant due to the inter-governmental agreements that the village has so I ask again why is this side-by-side comparison to a scenario putting it nicely as I can is incomplete so as to overestimate the cost to the TOB this presentation makes it look as though a vote on merger is somehow linked to separation it is not to imply that it is will be viewed as an effort to influence the vote on merger with back of the napkin calculations no wait the detail work that Sarah did that was back of the napkin napkin calculations I don't know what you would call this at any rate separation is not on the ballot not on the town ballot not on the village ballot to present such an obviously false dichotomy one that is being pushed by a very vocal few I urge you to stay objective focus on the question town-wide voter will actually be voting on madam chair I agree it's inappropriate for the board to prognosticate on a village vote thank you very much and best of luck Elaine thank you is there anyone else from the audience who wishes to speak on the topic Danny Cooper hi can you hear me yep thank you um um I appreciate and value so many things that have been said here this evening uh most valuably I'd like to um lean into Betty Poulin's understanding of her attendance at the trustee meeting um I appreciate how clearly Betty articulated what she saw I agree 100% with Betty's understanding um I've been merger with my heart I saw on March 2nd that the village was running steam train to separation because everyone was frustrated I felt that it was only appropriate that we checked one more time because as someone mentioned before and maybe it was Betty I felt that those who live external to the village did not understand that there no to merger might end up in separation so I thought to myself what can I do how can I communicate this clearly to all of us that this is about to happen so right now I am a member of two municipalities the five of you who sit here this evening are representing me at large equally as a town resident to anyone who lives outside the village you represent me equally at all times because I pay taxes secondarily as a second thing not secondarily sorry because I pay a different set of taxes to the trustees they also represent me fairly but until anything changes in this scenario you're always my representatives at large if I ask that you all understand and respect that half of your town is living in tax inequity once merger and is being denied it forever and ever and status quo cannot exist for us any longer thank you very much for hearing me thank you for all the conversations thank you for everything I'm so appreciative and I deeply value all of Essex and how civically engaged we all are thank you thank you Lanny are there any other uh Adam Newhart Hey thank you um I did want to make a comment because I heard some some notes about Sarah's math uh being back of the napkin math I can certainly say that I have a finance background for the last I don't know how many years doing this sort of modeling and this stuff is extremely difficult and there are so many variables that go into it I have found it to be extremely solid and you know I take great concern that someone would address that kind of work as back of the napkin math don't mean anything down like this is astronomically difficult and I would just hope that people not view this as back of the napkin math because it certainly is not thank you thank you I appreciate your extending respect to the staff which they greatly deserve uh Betty Pullen uh thank you um I appreciate all the work that again all of you have done and that Sarah has done in in trying to calculate these numbers before they were presented or Evan talked about um and we all know that it's based on certain assumptions um Evan also talked about um it'll depend on the relationship between the boards and the communities um as we go forward and and um so I assume there's some negotiation in that and so one of the reasons I was so concerned was that um you know part of the meeting the trustees had the other night they had executive session with their legal staff that may have been tied to regular village business but I started to feel like one party was already lining up their resources for the day we go to divorce court and I just want to make sure that um I don't want to end up if it comes to that that only one party has come to the come to the table prepared for negotiations and with your lawyers and the other party isn't so I I may be misunderstanding what's involved in separating out the expenses but I but I um and what's involved in the separation um numbers but I do want to make sure that everybody in the community is is properly represented and um I I think that if there are so very many assumptions that um and so many different nuances of how this can go that may be um this document which I of course haven't seen might be more confusing than it is um helping to people about what the impact of Merck of separation would be thanks okay thank you um you know Pat I'm sorry you've had your hand up my apologies go ahead oh and me uh sorry apologies uh I mean I've heard it mentioned several times now um I mean to be clear this is speaking me personally one individual but I reject completely the premise that separation has nothing to do with this linked vote this vote coming up um I mean we can and I mentioned it two meetings running now you know so much of what we do is black or white in the vote it is yes or it is no but we are past that point in our community we need to open our ears realistically and understand that however this vote goes in two weeks is going to have significant impact and that impact may very well include a majority populace of the village of Essex Junction seeking separation I mean it is not wild for us to assume that that's going to happen and I think we need to be realistic we would not be doing our duty as board members to also assume that these votes are going to be linked so you know apologies I I understand people's how they're coming at it is separation exactly explicitly on the ballots coming up no there's an advisory vote though and it's a very we have a lot of a lot of strong representation in the community who have said that they want to move to separation if this next merger vote fails and by just discounting that we're we're just I don't think we're doing our job as the select persons of this entire community we need to be real that that's a possibility and we need to accept that that may be a possibility we can't just say anymore they aren't linked because they are they just simply are thanks Pat um I'm going with someone who hasn't spoken yet Andrew Brown hi can you hear me okay yes we can great thank you so a couple of things I just want to be very clear on for as long as I'm a member of the board of trustees and considering that I'm running on a post currently status quo is not tolerable that is not a discussion point that is not something we're moving forward with separation it can absolutely happen every agreement that has been done can be undone is it easy no it wouldn't be easy but if merger fails and if the the village voters decide to approve of that uh non-binding resolution then given the representative democracy that we live in that is absolutely the next step for the village this needs to be shared with all voters so they can be informed how it is not the time to put our heads in the sand and to hide we need to inform the voters of these possibilities thank you thank you Andrew um Bob Bates yeah I'm afraid I have to disagree with my old student Andrew respectfully um this is not an either or proposition folks uh you know whatever happened to the idea that well if this fails again uh at some point down the road we have new boards coming on we can sit down at the table and say all right we don't have to be satisfied with the status quo so let's take the best of what's been suggested and then look peel back the onion and other layer and look at the real needs of both communities I continue to hear the terms tax equity and tax equality used interchangeably and it drives me crazy because equity implies fairness equality implies everybody's paying the same amount well they're two different things depending on the services received so my point is I really really hope Andrew and others be they trustees or or folks my friends that live in the village could step back as well as those of us who live outside the village and ask our new boards to sit down at some point in the future after passions have cooled down and take a look at where do we agree what are the things we agree on and what are the next steps that we might look at maybe it means appointing you know a new committee of five tlv people and five tiv people including board members from both boards I don't know what it would look like but I have to believe we can do it all my life I've believed in collaborative conflict resolution and it's usually something that doesn't result in an either or decision you know collaborative decision making involves brainstorming coming up with creative ideas that maybe haven't even been thought of yet so I really would like us to move out of this either or mode because it implies a threat and I don't like to feel that way and I don't like my neighbors to feel that way and I don't really think that's the way we want to operate with one another as a community village and town outside the village thank you thank you um Mike Sullivan yeah hi Elaine um as yeah I raised my hand in reaction to bob bob I appreciate your your open-mindedness about the whole thing but I'll tell you I am not going to step back and this is not a threat but we are done in the village asking for a fair tax rate thank you okay um is there anyone else in the audience who has not yet spoken that wants to speak okay go ahead Ken thank you madam chair I just want to clarify something that I said earlier by no means that I mean to um characterize Sarah's work as back of the napkin that was something that others have said about the separation document that she wrote back in September um no I think that it's quite great work not back of the napkin it's just what somebody else had said that's all not me thank you for that chance to do that madam chair this is um this is jean bull I'm calling in I'm now on teams oh thanks for jumping in tell me your name again definitely jean bull BULL thank you I think I have to agree with what Patrick said separation needs to be discussed because it is a consequence of merger not passing and I think that people need to be given that information that if merger doesn't pass the junction is going to go forward with separating which will mean a significant tax increase all at once for town outside the village residents that is going to be a unreasonable and just not doable increase for a good portion of people thank you thank you I hope we didn't make you wait too long because I didn't see you didn't have a hand up um Irene hi thank you um to Mike's comment Mike Sullivan's comment about fair tax rates um the tax rates are fair I understand that when a lot of the current officials um on the select board and trustees first ran for office the tax requirements from village residents um on their tax bill were a lot higher the charges were much higher but with the consolidations that have been done the last five to seven years there's a lot of tax equity going on right now and as far as fairness village residents vote on the town budget so they've approved those expenses and village residents vote on the village budget and they will again on April 13th so I would maintain that there is fairness going on residents have voted for each budget they get a say in what they believe to be fair and then they pay for it I want more note if I may on Sarah's report I since we didn't get to read it in advance I would just like to make sure that it is stated if the town loses 41% of revenue in a separation situation it also loses 50% of its population to which it provides services so I think it's really important to notice that um the loss of revenue is exceeded by the number of people disappearing needing services and I think that could be a win thank you um Jason Baldicero are you able to hear me yes um just a comment on the comment that was just made um though there may be a reduction of 50% of the population that 50% of the population does not utilize some of the services the town will need to continue to pay for such as the um the fire department we have our own fire department and other resources that though you may have a reduction of 50% of the population you'll be losing the money the village pays for those services that they don't receive from the town just to clarify that that's it thank you thank you um Jeffrey Lewis very sorry to add another voice on to what's a very busy meeting for you guys um I appreciate all the information you guys got and I just thought you'd appreciate a newer perspective from the end of this trying to get information I found the short presentation of the memo to be helpful in sorting out kind of some of the background as far as what we're talking about here um it's you guys have put out a ton of information I think more information is not hurtful in the situation for for newer people coming into this to understand what the other other side of the coin could be if we if we keep going down this road that that's all just getting back to the question that we're discussing here I thought it was helpful to talk about and don't think it would hurt to have that information online to have a better look at in the future that's all thank you thank you is there anyone else who has not yet spoken who wishes to say something okay angel cigar or angel I see your mic is open but we can't hear you we still can't hear you right we're gonna move on to someone else I'll come okay you'll try later see your note um patty and then Betsy and then angel um yeah um I was wondering if you wouldn't mind um putting uh you know what Sarah went over I think Sarah does a great job for both both town and village she does a great job and she does a great job keeping our finances separate and who pays what so I think somebody who collects a lot of data I she is on the right track uh she has been the whole time she's been working um for the town in the village so I just want to say that I think Sarah Macy does a really good job I was wondering if if the september 28th uh document and the one that she talked about tonight that we would have to come up with 0.7 million um a little more than a half a million dollars um to make our tax rate the same if we voted no again could be um presented so the public can have access to it unfortunately I keep bringing up 35 percent of our population out here and and 81 that is a lot of older population that doesn't even get on a computer and it's a shame that we've waited this long to talk about this um my only other question is I'm curious can the village the junction afford to be separated I can they afford separation yes I'm just curious yes they can yes they can okay because otherwise I I'm I'm hearing from many town outside the village voices that they feel that the separation thing is a threat and and I'm I'm just wondering I was just wondering can they even afford if they didn't have us anymore you know at all to have can they afford to be on their own that's all but yes you just answered my question all right but I'm I would love to see the work that Sarah has done both September 28th and tonight somewhere thank you very much thank you Betsy and then Angel thank you so first I'm just going to say I am just a little annoyed because I have been asking for this information to be available for the public for quite some time and I'm also glad that you've come to the light because certainly separation is germane to the merger question and the second thing I'd like to ask is if we had done the merger without doing the 12 years of getting the taxes together and we did in one fell swoop what is that percent increase in our taxes Sarah and the other thing I want to say unfortunately to all of these questions had we waited 60 days and decided to do a separate election where this could all have been figured out we have people who have already voted as Evan said putting their ballot into the box mailing them potentially and this is a shame I look forward to hearing what Sarah has to say thank you Sarah are you able to answer that question at this time or is that something that we need to come back on no I can definitely answer it so the the the merger increase for town outside the village it's approximately 25 total so that's that's you know the total annual taxes would go up at the end of those 12 years by about the 330 dollars on the 280 thousand dollar home and that comes from a baseline of 1500 it's about 25 percent total oh the so that that makes the percent that you say 33 percent six percent more than we would have had to pay with the merger well you're right it all depends I'm just saying I'm just saying okay I think that's why you know tonight knowing that you would have to find 2.7 million so 2.7 hundred thousand dollars of additional cuts out of that town budget to maintain your tax rate that's a different way of looking at the same numbers that has fewer assumptions in it okay so thank you you're welcome okay uh angel do you want to try again yes there we go awesome did I pronounce your name incorrectly I apologize yes that's fine um I just wanted to comment that um it seems to me that it's a little bit premature to assume that the village wants to separate in case merger does not pass um don't they have to have the vote first on April 13 and then I guess we'll know thank you thank you is there anyone else who wishes to speak who has not already spoken okay well we'll do Andrew Brown and then we'll come back to the board thank you chairwoman Elaine j woman handy one thing I know that the board members already know that I just wanted to make sure the rest of the public understands when we're talking about departments in the town like public works fire community development and libraries these are departments which are funded and designed to only provide services for the town outside of the village as the village has our own departments which provide the same services so in a separation scenario what ends up happening is a town ends up losing 41 percent of the people who pay for that so the town has to then figure out at that point in time do you want to pay the full bill or cut services to keep a tax rate and that's really what Sarah's talking about in my opinion and that yes in a separation scenario the village actually sees a tax reduction while that tax reduction is less than what would happen in merger it is still a tax reduction so absolutely it can be afforded as we're paying for more now okay thank you very much uh okay Annie Cooper and then we're going back to the board sorry thank you I can you hear me I wonder if um Andrew or someone could just take a moment there seems to be some confusion within our town about how the double tax services happened and I would like someone to just take a hot second to just say which chicken and red came first for a minute because there's people who believe that the village decided to duplicate services for itself and I know that the reverse is true and I would like just someone to take one sentence or two to explain that it was not me um well the village was formed in 1893 in order to provide services for itself that it needed at the time it added additional services and as the town got larger and more populated it added its own services as well so it's I don't know the chicken or egg story but generally village services popped up first then town services but it could be different depending upon the department you're talking about thank you okay board members we have a question to answer regarding outreach do you wish to provide additional outreach for residents on this ballot item how would you like to proceed dawn madam chair by outreach are you meaning just posting this information on the website because we no longer have the option of a postcard I'm sorry you're it garbled for me could you start over I'm sorry that's okay do we do you mean so we're voting to put the information on the website but not an extra postcard is that what I'm understanding I think that's what it is thank you okay Andy I'm not in favor of the content as written I think that 2.7 million dollar number needs to be stated somewhere in there so people only need to do the math I couldn't find the numbers to do the math with myself um and then also I think we need to be very clear what what the what you know what things were left out and I don't and I don't mean a detailed analysis of them I just you know a summary of you know what really hasn't been accounted for in this new assessment again I you know alternatively we just refer to the old one which I think was actually pretty excellent pattern Vince Vince yeah I'm reconsidering not that I want like I I think we should have Sarah at the the 2.7 million dollar number figure and it kind of like I don't know about a question or answer but just like an explanation of like how we arrived there like a brief one and then we should know I'm in favor of putting this on like I think that you know I was kind of putting myself back in my newbie Essex resident shoes and I was like I was thinking about how I would I would want some information on a choice that I was making that was going to affect me and I do think this information needs to get out there I mean I know it's not perfect and but I I think it's like Sarah said a good starting point and I think we should continue as a board to refine that and to continue to work on the on on those and work on making new assumptions and expand upon what's been done here okay Pat uh yeah I absolutely agree we should put it up on the website the 2.7 million number I feel like the Sarah wouldn't be too difficult for you to add that in there but otherwise yeah there's no reason why we should not be putting up as much relevant information as possible especially in regards to this may I make a suggestion seeing as the next meeting isn't until April 5th and by that time many people will have put their ballots in the mail and so putting the data up you know after April 15th April 5th is a little late for a lot of people may I suggest that Sarah update this memo as with the comments that were made this evening and then repost both of them the September one from 2020 and this one and let the voters read them and let the voters understand them that way you're not going through some sort of editing process via email that you feel uncomfortable with but rather the data that has been presented publicly already is put up and everybody is able to see it as soon as possible rather than waiting till a week before the the polls open it sounds like a good plan to me okay do we need a consensus for that or do we need a vote for that Evan what is your preference that's that's a horrible question to ask me uh how about consensus first okay well I saw four not three nodding heads I didn't say Andy nod are you okay with that approach Andy I'd like to see the the actual content but again I'm just one out of five right it I guess I could make a suggestion if it is you know the the thought on the table is zero updates the memo deals with the 2.7 million which I don't take lightly and other comments we do the September 20th uh work that she did and this new work try to you know make sure people get maybe side by side and what if we send that um out to the board and you know 20 you know get some comments and then put it on see some some nods because I do I mean Andy you've sent me some comments and some thoughts I really would like to make sure that you know people it's so hard to understand this stuff but at least we feel it is as unbiased as we can make it and as helpful as we can make it for for those who who want to go to the website and take a look at it there's no time for other printed materials um there's just isn't and yes we could have gone at the select board could have gone another 30 days and probably 15 days into those next 30 days somebody would have came up with another idea and you'd be talking about this if it was simple it had been done by now that's right um so I don't mean to make a light of it it's just been a lot on our plates so if you're okay with that tomorrow we can send an update of what Sarah and I put together we'll ask for maybe comments within 24 hours and we'll get it up by the end of the weekend okay I'm seeing general nods well thank you for that consideration and there are no other items on the agenda so I will accept a motion to adjourn Madam Chair I make the motion that we adjourn this meeting and thank you again for your service is there a second I will second that okay all those in favor please say I I I opposed all right thank you all thank you all for your comments in the audience have a good evening okay