 It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. If you just joined, thank you so much. We will continue the conversation with Ezekiel. Yeah, I took who joins us this morning. Ezekiel, it's good to have you join us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Thank you. We had missed you, you know, the previous week, but it's also good to have you. But just quickly as we look at the punch newspaper, I'd like to show you thoughts. What exactly was the outcome? We know you had an outing. You were part of those who contested the elections, you know, the governorship elections in a quibum state. Can you bring us up to speed with what had happened? What was the outcome? And how did you really feel about the elections? It was one of the most terrible things I've been. I've actually contested twice effectively before. This was like my third time. And this was the worst experience I've had in my entire life. I believed so much in the processes and everything. And really, it was the first time I was really contesting, putting everything I had, you know, in and everything. And then, you know, after the presidential election and the question of vivas, uploading and everything, you know, you need to understand election processes, how it goes. And I've been national chairman of the party before. I quite understand the processes. So I had to go in company with one of my friends to the rec, you know, the resident electoral commissioner in the state and say, come, can you give us assurance that there will be upload timeously as agreed. And from the polling unit and results pasted, he told me that he was not only going to do that, but he's going to have a situation room. Personal ways going to have for people send the results to him on a personal note, aside from what was to happen. I was so happy, so satisfied, so fulfilled. And we went back and then had our last minute, you know, preparation where we looked at, we need to have polling agents with this sort of thing, because polling agents alone was going to cost us about 25 to 30 million. So we now say, okay, let's depend on his situation room and everything long and short of it all. It was terrible. Now the first biggest problem was vote buying in my village. And I mean, the tribunal, I'll bring out evidence they were paying 10,000 Naira per vote. It was awful. How do you tell your relations not to collect 10,000 Naira? So you discover that you don't even have the moral conscience to say, don't buy votes or don't sell votes. You understand me? That was bad enough. Then we now discover that in our own case, they were now sharing our votes. So we had evidence on tape where they are recording the votes counting. We have 79. When they go in, they record zero. Another place we have 80, something when they go in, they give us one. They just kept allocating zero and one, zero and one, zero and one, because we didn't have the agents there. At the end of the day, we lost close to 100,000 votes. So much so that even when we didn't have a presidential candidate, you understand me, we ended up having more votes for the president than I had. It was preposterous. It was ridiculous. It was absurd. It was something you don't want to think about. But what I've done is I wouldn't have won. I would tell you this for free. From the votes we had, I wouldn't have won, but would have had a very impressive showing and that could be a momentum that builds a new party into the next phase. But what we've decided to do is to go to Tribunal. Since we have very, very concrete evidence, we want the perpetrators to be prosecuted because it must be a reward system for good or bad behavior. All right then. Ezekiel, let's then turn our attention to the papers. We see how all of that pans out. It's a lot to grapple with at this point in time in our polity. The punch talks about arrest of interim government and plotters. You say arrest interim government plotters, APC, PDP tells the DSS. I'm sure that you're already in the know of the tweets that went viral yesterday. It was tweeted. The DSS had put out a broadcast message and that's gotten a lot of Nigerians talking. That would be the crux of a conversation. But we just look at that. Saboteurs' planning court orders protest to stop Tinnabuz inauguration. That's according to the agency. And it says interim government alien to the constitution. Campaigners being persuaded, says the APC and the PDP. Now, you also find another headline this morning on the punch saying presidency, rare privilege, I won't squander. That's what the president elect is quoted to say. He says the presidency is a rare privilege. He would not squander. Again, federal government plans sanctioned as 633 die in oil operations. That's unfortunate. First with those who have lost their loved ones. Then how I would tackle police corruption, PCS commission chairperson is quoted to say. Some people say we need an overhaul of the entire system. 26 children, 125 adults, Libyan, return is land in Lagos. And we say Lagos is already congested. So it's going to be a lot to grapple with. But however, some people say it's very commendable and we cannot agree differently. Election rigors, Yahoo Boys Fasting in Vane, says the cleric, talking about the Ramadan. Chris Land School workers trial begin today, talking about that incident with me, the little child that died. It's not something you want to talk about. I mean, I literally had tears talking about that story on, you know, the show here on the breakfast. But we move away from the punch because we have all the papers and the next would be looking at the Guardian, I beg your pardon. Punish those behind 450 cases of poll violation. The NHRC, CSOs are insisting. Punish those behind 450 cases of poll violation. NHRC, CSOs insist. Now the NHRC was a human rights, you know, organization, the commission is saying the 450 human rights violation cases were recorded in the elections and they're asking that the government should take action. Again, you also find you should explain to Nigerians why beavers developed many faults. CSO tells INEC, explain to Nigerians why beavers developed faults because too many, you know, hope and assurance right there from the umpire. Those giving ethnic and religious coloration to obedient movement are parochial, says Obie. That's what you find. Now, national carrier airline operators known or no fate April the 25th. But I mean, I don't know what this means, but don't forget that the government has been very explicitly saying we're going to have this running on or before May the 29th. And so you know what that means, on or before. So it can happen before or it can happen just on the 29th and it should not exist the 29th. So that would be like the 31st. amended audit bill proposes five year jail at 10 and five million are fined for errant accounting officers to noble marks 71st birthday at Haji and pledges to fulfill campaign promises outcome of beavers or BVN fraud probes will determine the fate of protesting ex agitators amnesty officers outcome of BVN fraud probe will determine the fate of those protesting ex agitators and amnesty officers insisting. But the assess confirms entire in government plot is transition council steps up activities. The transition council. I mean, just recently the most of her secretary to state government. He has said that the, you know, this plan, the plan, you know, to ensure that there's a smooth transition is on the way and there's nothing like any sort of obstruction, but a lot's happening in our polity. Then again, we have the daily trust newspaper. So next paper we're looking at governor select pledges or pledge better deals and receive certificate of return. That's what you find my family wouldn't have a role in governance. Abba Gida Gida Gida is quoted to say it's a new dawn in Benway. That's according to Reverend Francis. I will remain fair, fair, transparent, natural governor is quoted to say, let's do it together. Bonnie or just opposition. So these are like writers underneath the board caption. We have identified politicians plotting in Tarium government. We have identified politicians. I'm not sure that, you know, the DSS Nigerians will forget this statement at any time. Then Pope Francis 86 in hospital with respiratory infection. We can only wish them a speedy recovery and more like a an editorial or dare about time to reflect on president elects vision for Niger. That's what you find on the front page. Now moving away from that, there's also another paper and that's the nation. We'll just quickly look at this and then we call it a wrap and have a guest share his thoughts. DSS wants in time government plotters of their consequence. And the secret please wouldn't tolerate moves to squirtle democracy. Experts in term government plot trees enable of course the constitution is very explicit on that. Banks worried over low cash deficit by customers. So I'm sure you if you remember if you've been following the conversation prior to this time, spin a lot of you know, thoughts by economic or experts if you like to say who say that the government had plans with this policy to ensure that you have more persons who are banked because you had about 54% of the unbanked in the entire population. If you look at the 54% were really unbanked, but now it feels like you're going to have more persons who are going to be unbanked following all of this. Then fact that's the federal executive council okay is 24.2 billion for free internet in airports and others incoming governors on forward agenda for states. Portable faces please probe elections credibility fairly conducted says a day. That's it. Well that's the much we can take now for the want of time. Ezekiel, it's good to have you join us once again. Thank you. Let's share your thoughts on the issues. Thanks for having me. Now that like you rightly said the issue that makes the rounds across the country today is the statement from DSS. And that statement for me comes short in more ways than one. I've had a lot of respect for the DSS over the years and they've done a lot of great intel. But I think that they are lacking first and foremost in what I call emotional intelligence. And that's absolutely necessary. I give you a very good example. You know, a man like Mr. Peter will be comes and says those who are bringing you know ethnic coloration and religious coloration into the obedient movement are parochial. He said it. He sees the mantle. He decided to say it before others say it. That's being smart. You know, for me that's a clear definition of what emotional intelligence is all about. When you look at what people want to use against you and be the one to say, oh, that's wrong. That's wrong. You kind of take the wind of the sale of the people. Now come to where we are today. We all know that the whole nation is just not happy with the elections. And what I said, the whole nation is, aside from the presidency, at the subnational levels, the different parties where APC won, they are happy. Where APC lost, they are unhappy. And it comes down to the fed rating, not just the fed rating you need, but down to the little like the House of Assembly, the Senate, all those things. There are people who are happy and people who are unhappy. And those who are unhappy far exceed those who are happy because everybody agrees that the process of election this time was just not the best at all. Now on account of that, what I expected the presidency to do, the president-elect to do, and the DSS is to apply some level of, you know, measures that would make people feel, you know, receive some soothing, okay? People are crying. And what you come out to do is to tell people, look, I know those of you are trying to ferment trouble. I know some of you, it's like the DSS is now speaking for the new government. And the DSS is expected to be neutral, to speak for Nigeria. So what I expected DSS to do was to go out of their way and say, those of you that were responsible for the irregularities, we have noted you, we are going for you, we are going to this, and people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all those offenders are going to be punished and things like that. You know, it's better that way. And then while you are saying this publicly, because you have intel that people are fermenting trouble, you pick those people up. When the public is happy that you are going to deal with perpetrators of electoral fraud, they won't mind for you to hear that, for them to hear that, oh, one, two people were trying to find some problems, and we are going to bring them to book. Now, that's a wiser approach, in my opinion, than you to come and tell Nigerians, oh, you want to go and procure, you know, judgments from the court that are not okay. Now, what you've done, you've indicted the judiciary. Now you're saying you are going to protest and do, you know, vandalize and cause problems. I'm just wondering, what do you want the average Nigerian to think? It's like pouring kerosene on fire. Things are bad enough. So people are like, oh, interim government, there's a process it goes. It must go through the coup. So a coup is coming, men, it means it's going to be bloodshed. On account of that, what do I do? They start to think in terms of how to get out of this country as fast as possible. And then imagine that you were trying to rock a deal with those who say, look, as soon as this government is out, I'll come in. Because several Nigerians left and said, we won't come back until Buhari is out. So they are like, you know, raving their engines, cleaning their clothes and everything. And the next thing they are hearing is that they are plotting, you know, overthrow of the government. And they're like, what? Even the international partners that you have are going to quickly call you and say, guys, please call up the deal, let's suspend, let's watch how it goes. And that's going to just set us back so much for that. So please can somebody tell me for the life of me what DSS sought to achieve, other than maybe impressing the incoming government? And my question is, should that really be their primary, you know, motivation or objective? Is that their own new line of government? They are going to be like the last Senate where they are ready to be rubber-stamped? No, you're going to lose confidence of the people, lose confidence of investors. You're going to make the system worse off. So for this particular act, I think the DSS have not done themselves any good at all. I don't agree with them. All right then. Let's move away from that, you know, because it will be the crux of our conversation at the hour of eight o'clock. But on the Guardian newspaper, there are also interesting, you know, headlines there. It talks about the fact that the federal government has been tasked to arrest and probe perpetrators of various acts of electoral violence during the just concluded, you know, elections of that of 25th of February and the 18th of March, again saying they have received over 450 complaints of human abuses. I mean, human rights abuses and what have you. Now, my question is, do we need to remind the government or do the government need a reminder to act? Those who have, you know, contravened the law, those who have defaulted, those who have involved in all of this, the government need any reminder from any quota whatsoever to swinging to action. There are two ways you get about these things. Before you can prosecute anybody, there has to be a report. And after the report, there's investigation. So who makes the report? The police, the police were mandated to kind of review what was going on during the or super intent to oversee the elections. They were expected to do that. And I think that on their own, they can actually make the report and then do the investigations that they already have and then send for persecution. But also, you know, we have a very fine gentleman that has been elected in a quite bomb state. And I was with him and we talked a bit. And one of the things I told him was that I was going to go to the tribunal that I let him know why I wanted to do that. And, you know, it's funny that you meet a winner and you tell the person you're going to a tribunal. But because I know who he is, a very reasonable sound person, I knew he would understand where I'm coming from. You see, when you have people who believe that they can do anything, and then people keep quiet, these people are emboldened next time to do worse than they have done. So if I was, I want to encourage every single person that was involved in this, you know, process. If you had clear cases of electoral malpractice, you have evidence, for instance, on tape, you see your votes being recorded, being counted, you had 79. Then on the paper, you find five. Somebody has to tell how 79 became five. And then when it's uploaded on the IRF portal, you find one. So people must be responsible for this. And such bad behavior, you cannot afford the luxury of, you know, just turning a blind eye, you know, so that you don't want to rock the boat. No, you've got to find a way in this country of punishing offenders and rewarding good behavior. We must have those, they are major instruments of governance that you cannot do without. You have to find a way of being a deterrent to bad behavior and punishing and rewarding good behavior. And it is only those of us that would have the local standing to go into the court, present those cases and have those people persecuted. That does not stop you from having a working relationship with your system. If you wanted to be a governor, it means that you meant well for the state. So you've got to go out of your way to support whether it's on the seat, unless of course you had ulterior motive. If your motive was to make the state better, then whoever is there, if you are not a driver, be as close as possible to the ears of the driver so that you can give an opinion. No driver knows everything. No governor knows everything. So if you mean well, but you must allow the person to take the final decision because it is his call and not your call. You need to know where your limits are, where you must end and then that's it. So offenders should be prosecuted. I'm in complete agreement with the CSOs and the Nigerian Human Rights Commission that federal government must step in and do everything. I'm all saying citizens should also be part of that process to make sure that next time people look and think twice before they get into electoral practices. But Ezekiel, how do you feel about this story that's on the nation newspaper? It talks about the federal executive council that has approved two contracts. That's what what 24.20 billion for the provision of broadband for free internet. That's in 75 public places, including 20 airports and tertiary institutions and markets nationwide. At a time where we're grappling with revenue and also saying we're trying to cut costs, if you also look at the conversation of subsidies also being brought to book at this point. How do you feel about this? Incidentally, and one of those that will give them double thumbs up, not just one, double thumbs up, because that we are having problems with finances calls for people to learn how to think outside the box. I am one person that is really, really ICT heavy. I believe that the future of Nigeria is in ICT, not in oil, more so, particularly a place like Akwaibom State. You know, these young people, I believe that as a policy, if I was the governor, one of the policies I was going to have was to introduce computer programming from primary school. Go to a place, I did a case study of a place like Poland. You discover that secondary school, equivalent of secondary school children are giving their fathers, their parents pocket money because they learn programming right from primary school. Programming is where you can make money. You become a global citizen. Everything is about Yahoo. You can create an ecosystem that isolates the, you know, free the Yahoo boys and yet take advantage. I am the COO of a company that has a direct relationship with the Silicon Valley to be connected to Nigeria and you see so much money being made from ICT. I give you a very little example in Nigeria. A company needed a million dollars and they went round shopping for it. Lakers, the government was able to give them that million dollars. Two, three years down the line, that company was sold for about 200 million dollars. Clean deal. You can understand where these things go. They call it the unicorn. So, if you are taking client, Nigerians are gifted all this. You can be a good Yahoo guy unless you understand ICT. So, what do you do? Create an alternate environment that is clean and migrate these people to the clean environment. And don't let them just keep modeling in the mode of, you know, Yahoo Yahoo and you don't want to see any guy with a backpack that has a computer. As a policy in Aquibom, if I was the governor, I would make a laptop compulsory for every tertiary institution student because that is where our future is, ICT. So, for the federal government to think in terms of free, fast internet broadband in public spaces, I want them to, number one, know that they have my thumbs up. Number two is that it must be cost-effective and not another inflated laptop. But Ezekiel, I mean, if you look at it, we talk about, you know, in elementary economies, which you and I, I'm sure that you would remember, it talks about scale of preference. So, what becomes important? So, if you look at the scale of preference for our country, if you look at the things that are pressing, do you think that, you know, this should be topping the chart with that amount? Especially when you also have alluded to the fact that we're grappling with funds, not also looking at the fact that, I mean, if you also look at it, some people think that this is overboard. I mean, how do you talk about 24 billion plus for internet provision for just 70 locations in the entire country? And the airport has also been mentioned. But if you look at the airport, there are a lot of things that are very paramount, that are very, that are priority, the issue of hygiene. And so sometimes you find out that, you know, welcoming yourself, coming in, you know, the restrooms are not properly taken care of. I mean, there's all other basic things that should have been taken into consideration. And so we're not saying that this is not important, but I'm saying in the list of things that we should pay attention to as a nation. If we're looking at the priority list, should this be topping the chart? Yes, it should be topping the chart. I'll tell you this. If you are a leader, one of your responsibilities is to be able to lift your head above the waters and see tomorrow. For instance, you are a leader, you are a farmer, and your family is hungry. You're not going to allow them to eat the head of the yam, no matter how hungry they are. You're going to insist that that yam should be planted because you know that, you know, in the next season, it's only what is planted that is going to be eating. On the other hand, you're going to ask yourself some very hard questions. Where can I cut the waste? What must I invest in? What they've done must be cost-reflective. It must be very, very effective in cost. That is what I would tell them. Number two, they must do it. Number three, they must cut all these excesses and waste stages that are worth more than a hundred, two hundred billion. Put me on the budget and I can sift out over five hundred billion that is absolutely unnecessary. Some of the agencies that you are having and paying salaries, what becomes of them? The refineries that you spend billions on a monthly basis, what becomes of them? What are the things that can hold on for a while? And what are the things that cannot hold on for a while? Carrying the head of the yam and planting against next season is one of the things that cannot hold on. For me, internet connectivity, access to high-speed internet, getting IU to be involved in ICT is one thing that cannot wait. The fleet of the President on his vehicles or not just vehicles on his aircraft can wait. If you just let go one, two, three, from just one item, you can realize enough for you to embark on this, which I believe I will endorse any day, any time, anywhere, anyhow. All those previous spendings on government agencies and people in power and all those things, you can cut them. You can cut the excesses, cut the waste, and there will be in tons of this amount, but you must not, because of prioritization, cut that investment in ICT. That is an area you should cut and feel. Cut from others, feel that. Invest more and more and more, but be cost-effective and result-oriented. There are things you do just to give your people contracts. There are things you do and they are sustainable. This is a very good venture. All I want them to do is make it cost-reflective and then make it sure that it is sustainable. For me, I agree with it 100%. Well, let's look at the daily trust now. Governors elect pledging that they would better deals as they receive their certificate of return. 36 states of the federation. Of course, the election happened in 28 states and we are going to have other elections as we proceed in 2023. But what should be the agenda for these governors? Development in terms of providing and leaving up to the expectation of governance? Like I said, I think we are starting to have a new set of people who are thinking a little differently. I keep going back to the discussion I had with the governor-elect in a quai bomb state. He outlined very, very salient and important things he wants to do. I was pretty impressed. Secondly, I want all of us that have contested or even online Nigerians to just over and then think in terms of how you can support the person. Just do your write-ups. They can always read it up. You may not have access like I do, but just put it out there in public space and let every governor feel a certain pressure to perform. Let the citizens build professional bodies that oversight these people enough of the governors being lords of the manner and being the all and all and everybody's running to them. That's why I'm so unhappy with the DSS. Let them start to establish themselves not as a appendage of the system, but as people who are standing in defense of the system, in defense of the generality of Nigeria. I'm happy with all the sound bites I'm getting. A place like Abia State, my brother Oti coming on board, I think there's a good example. He's going to be joined by a few other people. There's going to be a time that some people are going to ask their governors, pointedly, what are you doing? See what's going on in Abia? See what's going on maybe in Aqaibo? See what is going on in New York State? See what's going on in some other places? We need to come as Nigerians and start to have conversations on who is doing well and that would put pressure on those who are not doing well and then people will now get to start to get serious about government and governance. Okay, but I like us to go to that point line that you dropped the pressure to perform, the people should amount pressure to perform, and how do you talk about performance without funds? Now you also would agree with me that revenue has always been a major issue, so let's not even sound like it's a new thing, but right now it feels like we're grappling with this. If you see how state governors are grappling to get the allocation from the center, it's nothing to write them about. Some of them are still struggling to pay salaries. What sort of performance? There are critical things that have been put out over time, the issue of asking for restructuring, the issue of controlling resources so the states are able to harness the mineral resources that they have within them and to be effective to manage their state. Do you think that this is a point where this state governor should begin to consider some of this conversation as to resource control, controlling state architecture such as the police to have effective results? Okay, I'll come back to this issue. You see, there are three sources of funds. Three, what comes from the Federation account, what comes from internally generated revenue, and what you borrow. Now, if you are thinking in terms of internally because generated revenue, which is what you have control over, the question is, what do I give in today? What do I invest in today to ensure that probably in the next one or two or three years, it starts to show up my internally generated revenue? And one of the investment areas is MSMEs. You'll be shocked what you can get from MSMEs being able to create those clusters, apart from giving you generating employment for your teaming population, it becomes the incubator for you to have good IGR tomorrow. So you've got to invest the head of the YAM today. I'll see you come back to it. Once they know that, and they know that the Federation accounting is not really within their control, now they can start to think, for instance, you are allowed now to generate your power transmit and things like that. There's got to be conversations between not just states, but regions. For instance, there has to be, if you look at a state like Abia, there's got to be a very strategic working relationship between Abia and Acquibone, because Abia has a lot of the industrialization, they already have those things on ground. Acquibone has access to the sea, and the distance between them from Icodebene to Abah is like 20 minutes. So if you're able to create that highway, that nexus, either rail or road, particularly rail between the two states, and then next door there is cross-reversed that is high on tourism, they also have a seaport, you realize that, and then behind is a reverse state. Ezekiel, I think at some point we're almost saying the same thing, but we'll have to let it go at this point, because we're out of time, I've been prompted to move on quickly, but maybe we'll probably have a time where we will be talking about what the agenda should be for these governors as a common board, because revenue is a major issue. There are several, for instance, the roads that you have mentioned, you still will have the Kalaba Odupangi Road, which is very critical, connecting Acquibone and Cross River State. That's a federal road. That road is nothing to write them about. From 2015, there's been a lot of pictures as to that road being completed, but that's a death trap as we speak. Ezekiel, thank you. The two state governors can come together, get a PPP, and if the government will allow it to concession that road. But what happens to the road being within the poor view of the federal government? That's a trunk in the road. That's fine. And so is it not high time that we allow this state to become self-sufficient? Look at the Land Use Act, allow people to control their resources, and then take care of themselves. Like I said earlier, and we'd have another time to talk about these issues. Thank you so much, Ezekiel. It's always a delight to speak with you on national issues. We take a break now. When we return, we'll join our next guest, who's on standby, Nika Gule, would be looking at the issue of the DSS at this point in time. What exactly is going on? What does that really mean? Is there going to be a repeat of history when we cast our minds back to what happened June the 12th, 1993? Please stay with us.