 Hi, I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech. This is business in Hawaii. Actually, this is business beyond Hawaii. This is business going outside, way outside Hawaii with Richard Wertheimer. And he is Fort Street Management. I get that right. We're Street Management. Yes. He's a financial consultant planner person. No. We're fund managers, actually. Fund manager. Yeah. Thank you for straightening me out on that. We're going to talk about Fort Street in a little while. Sure. But the big news here is that you got to hobnob with CNBC and this national conference with all these names that we know from top to bottom. How did that happen, Richard? I mean, you must have friends you don't even know about. Yeah. It was definitely, at first we weren't sure what the event was. It was a bit, we were invited and we're like, ah, we don't know. And then we looked into it and it goes, are you sure you don't want to go? So the way we got the invitation was through the guys that we use as our custodian in our trading counterparty, Interactive Brokers. And they were looking for somebody who is setting up a new asset management business. And that could talk, you know, it was different from all the other guys that were there because it is the who's who of, not just finance, you know, you had the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and Senator Warren was there. So it was, you know, it was all the top guys in the industry. And then there was us. So yeah, I think it was somehow they, you know, our name came up and they asked us if we wanted to do it. And we said, absolutely. And it was usually these events are live. But this one was online, but it was still pretty, it was a lot of fun. It was live online. It was live by Zoom. When I first saw the write up on it, I said, my God, I can visualize Richard over in the corner there talking to Steve Mnuchin and always and like directing, you know, national fiscal policy or something. Yeah, because he's always calling me and asking me for advice. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's, yeah, look, it was, it is a lot of these conferences are there are a lot of different types of conferences out there. And this is one that actually people do pay attention to and they pay a lot of money to go to. And, you know, from, from our point of view, it was a wonderful opportunity to, to mix with these folks and also to get exposure, you know, at that level, particularly coming from, from Hawaii. I think that was, you know, that was a lot of fun. And so I think it'll, it was, it was, it was really fun to do. And it was a great exercise to get our name out there. Were you the only one from Fort Street Management? Yeah, it was just, well, because the way it was set up, you, they limit the number of participants. And so, yeah, I ended up going or ended up doing. So what did you speak about? I mean, I'm sure they were interested in, you know, in talking to somebody from Hawaii, people are always are. And they were interested in talking to somebody who was not national, you know, smaller. So what, what did you present to them? Well, that was exactly the point. It was they that the topic was setting up a asset management company in the middle of the pandemic. And but these things, and then what is the strategy and what do you do? And so that's what we focused on mostly was how do you know, the way that guys like myself who come from an institutional background, where we used to, you know, running money for big fund managers like George Soros and Stan Druckenmiller and, you know, we're a hedge fund manager for many years. And then coming out of that line of work and setting up an independent shop and all that entails and can that be done? And what are the benefits and what type of investment strategy? And how does that, you know, why, you know, which way is the world going and the fact that we can do what we're doing with the way we set up in December in the middle of this crisis. December 2019? Yeah, we set up in December, literally, you know, I mean, we've been doing this a while. So in terms of the markets, that was not so much of the issue. But you know, you still have clients and you're on boarding, bringing those clients online. And you wonder if the world's gonna end. And you have a lot of there's a lot of moving parts. But it's incredible how how you can set up, even in those circumstances, we got up and running and, you know, we, we, we, you know, a testament to the technology that's out there and the partners that we use. And then also our, you know, our ability to manage, you know, money in that, in that time that we were able to raise the substantial amount of money, even in those, you know, during those times. So I think that was the, you know, that was the focus of the of the conversation. You know, how do you build, you know, because a lot of times it's the big guys that dominate this stuff. And if you looked at the event, it literally, if it was the, it was the top of, you know, top private equity guys, top wealth management companies, Morgan Stanley, Apollo, Blackstone and Steve Schwartzman was there. It was the CEO from Vista Capital, Bob Smith. So it was all the heavy hitters. I mean, you name it, distressed equity, Mark Lazarie, it was just, if you're in the business, these are, these are, you can't get bigger names. And the point is that, you know, here we are, we're sitting in Hawaii, you know, people say, why Hawaii to begin with. And we're a small guy, we're starting with nothing because the problem when I was in the business to set up the businesses that we used to run, it would take an army and, you know, and a small fortune just to get going. And so, you know, we're kind of testament to say, well, you know, not necessarily if you have the right investment strategy and the right experience, and you understand what's out there in terms of the platform technology, you can you still have a shot at it. And we've been able to grow, you know, we're just shy, you know, of $100 million in assets, and we did that in a, you know, within this year. So I think that's why they kind of they they reserve the spot for somebody who's smaller and different, even though we, you know, we have the the investment credentials, you know, we've been doing this for a long time. This is we're not newbies. And that, you know, I think there's a powerful statement about not just for us, but where the world is going. I mean, what's happening with technology, and what you can do with it, the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, through this medium, you know, we adapt, or we get left behind. And that's also part of our investment strategy. So it's kind of all, you know, meets in the middle. Well, if I was organizing a conference like that, I would want to have you there. Because, you know, it's not so much that you're, you know, sort of exotic. It's that you demonstrate that the that the market for financial management is robust. It's not something people are running away from. It's something people are succeeding in and building new businesses. This is a great statement. And if you weren't there, then they, they couldn't make that argument. But because you're there, you know, you, you fill a part of the takeaway that they had in mind when they set the thing up. That's that would be my guess. Yeah, I think that and the fact that it's, because of the technology and structures, anything you do in life, if you get the right structure, that's 50% of the battle, you know, you got to get that set up properly. And so we're able to deliver, you know, what we do, an institutional quality of product and service. And we're able to offer that to, you know, to a different set of audience was before it was very bifurcated and very difficult to touch that. You know, you either have to know the person or you had to have a certain amount of money. And we are a boutique investment management company. So we are, we're fund managers. That's why I made the distinction because that we are not middlemen, we're not brokers, we're not financial planners, we are not all things to all people. So what's happening with the world is that guys like us, who have a very specialized skill set, we offer a global equity portfolio, which we manage, and we create ourselves. We run that like a fun. And then we also offer strategic advice on asset allocation. But that's all we do. We don't do anything else. Asset allocation between funds. Yeah, you create the fund and then your clientele buy into the fund. Yeah, we did what we run one fund by and large, and we can customize that. And then the other stuff is just how much cash, how much bonds, how much equity, bigger picture strategic stuff where people are leaning on us for maybe it's their business type of because just because we've been around and our network and we can be helpful. And there's a level of trust. So it's personalized, but it's highly optimized. And the main product that we offer is this, our proprietary investment portfolio that has roughly 50 stocks in it globally. And there are no funds, there's no ETFs. It's it's it's just the you know, we, we, you know, we, it's, it's where they call farm to table, you know, we bring the stuff, you know, right, we make the we grow the stuff ourselves, we, we give it to our customers, and we eat our own, you know, our own cooking as well, we take our own money all the way. That's the best way, isn't it? Then you then you don't have to rely on somebody else on whom perhaps you should not be relying. That's the problem I think is that getting to the source is very difficult. A lot of people don't know. And I think the way the world is going, because of the technologies and the way the way we're operating, people are going to have access to that. And they're going to once they taste it, this is the real thing. So in Hawaii, you know, not to to our tort horn too much, but we're pretty much the only guys here that have this experience that we can offer. And, you know, we're here in Hawaii, partly even though our business is global. And our client base is global, we do have some clients here. It's, you know, it's the benefit is that you don't have to be in the money centers anymore. You know, before I used to work with her, you know, it was in Hong Kong or San Francisco, for most of my career. And we're able to bring that to not just to why we're able to do it out of Hawaii, it's far from the madding crowds. So we, we eliminate a lot of noise, which is if you're a long term fund manager, that's generally helpful, because, you know, it's often the case of doing less, not doing more. We find you know, not getting in your way, and not being swayed by what's, you know, the flavor of the month. So that is really helpful being in Hawaii. And, you know, people say, you know, people ask, you know, you're, you're a fund manager, managing money in Hawaii. It's like, what, how, you know, how do you win the lottery? You know, it is an enviable place to do it. Did you tell them you went surfing in the morning? Did you tell them? Well, I just take a look, you know, I tried my best to represent Hawaii at the conference, you know, sporting the lo-hi shirt, and you know, even though we're not from here, at least the spirit of it. But I think that's, you know, it's really powerful that you can do that now. I mean, to me, it was also a bit of a, you know, I was suddenly retired and sort of had been managing money and thought, I just don't be able to do that again. And now we're up and running and doing it in a way in a format that works for me and I think works for the clients that, you know, that we have. And then the business can evolve. And it's a lot of fun that way, you know, you're, it really is the future. I mean, That is, I mean, you can have whatever style of life you want to have, you can be wherever you want to be, and then you can get on the electronics and do whatever you want to do. It doesn't matter where you are. No, no, it is. I mean, if, obviously, you know, some travel, you know, is in person to person, face to face meetings are still, you know, you can't replace that. But you do realize that I can do a lot without it. And particularly for our business, it's very much, it suits us very well into what we do. We don't, we don't need to You can, you can pick the travel, you can say, well, you know, I may not do the, you know, the grand possibilities, if I don't travel, but you know, I'll be able to do a lot of other stuff if I don't travel. So I can make a choice about that. That's right. That's right. And it allows for, you look at a place like Hawaii, there are, you know, there are a lot of financial advisors out there and planners, brokers, you know, stockbrokers, we used to call them. God bless them. You know, there's a, there's a role for it. I'm not, I'm not, you know, but it's, you know, but there should be more. You should have, you should have an option of seeking out something different. And we're a testament to that that here we are, you know, we're, we're not for everybody. Are you saying the stockbrokers have gone out of favor, out of phase? Well, they've changed, you know, in the old days, when I started in the business, it was they were called stockbrokers. I was not part of that business. That was a retail business, was an institutional side of it. I think now it has connotations of, I don't say a dirty name, but of a middle man that is not, they've changed that to financial advisors that you're advising, that you're on the side of the table as your client. There's nothing wrong with that. That's great. And they are, I mean, they're, you know, that is their goal. But I'm very skeptical that they can do everything. You know, there are certain things that they do very well. So it's, these things aren't binary and, and it's evolving. But you should have a choice. So for some, for many people, a financial advisor fulfills a very important role. Well, it sounds like it changes like everything else around us. And furthermore, it's changing even during COVID. I mean, those changes may be accelerating in some way. So what kind of response did you get? I know you weren't physically there rubbing shoulders with those guys. Yeah, it would have been a lot. Yeah, it would have been better, but they were in a group and I'm certainly they responded. They probably had Q&A. How did you feel it went? How did you feel, you know, they thought about your? Well, I mean, that's from what I could tell the, I think we're going to end up on the interactive website as a testament for them. So it was good promotion material for them. The CNBC called back said it was fantastic. That it went really well and they got a lot of response from that. We had a lot of Q&A. People really interested to know how I set up and also our background and what we do and our, and our view on the markets and our strategy. So that was and that seemed to be, you know, very well received. It would have been that was it would have been nice to if it was real time, we'd be able to talk to people, you know, in person. But like I said, it was a good it was a good exercise in getting out there and telling our story. You know, we are passionate about what we do. And, you know, and also getting some degree of validation, you know, people here that you're on CNBC at that type of event. You know, you probably not a complete you know, idiot. Part of your part of their group now. Right. It would not surprise me very much if I turned on the television and watch CNBC and there you were. I know that guy. I used to back in the day when I was in Hong Kong, when they were just starting with CNBC in Hong Kong, I often went on the show to talk about China and sometimes I do the interview actually in Chinese. Well, that's right. Let me take a digressionary moment. You you left Queens, you studied Mandarin. You got to be a taxi driver in China. And they they got they they found you there. The government found you and said, Richard, you you can't do this without the appropriate papers. You have to leave now. And you said, where shall I go? And they said, why don't you go to Taiwan? And then you said, this is my punchline. I'm sure you remember it. You said, I can't go to Taiwan. I don't speak Thai. It's it's true. You know, I was I was all of 19 or 20 years old at the time. And I didn't know what I was getting myself into, you know, and even on the CNBC at the show, the guy Adami who does fast money, the was the moderator, and he was fascinated. He was like, how did you end up in? Why did you go? And I was like, what were you thinking? I was like, I don't know. I wasn't really thinking. And, you know, you have a you have some sort of plan. It's it's, you know, it's a plan that is based on, you know, a young 19 year old male, you know, what he's what he's looking for, fame and fortune and fun. And yeah, that was is just one thing led to another before you know it, you're there and you're you know, you've established your roots and a career. But that was, you know, that that is it was a wonderful experience. And again, to come back to the United States, do what we're doing here, you know, it's I'm very careful. And I know we did that one. It's actually probably one of the only talks that I did on China was with you guys for the Harvard Club. And a lot of people saw that. And you know, my friends that are in China as long or not longer than me and there aren't many because I went there just as it was opening 30 some on 35 years ago. They were like, what were you thinking? You know, because to call yourself an expert is just it's it's it's a it's a slippery slope. But I do think it's really important that one thing that we can bring not not through our business and through our fun, it is obviously having an informed global view and the importance of China as we as we see today that we need to understand the world needs to understand. I you know, I you know, coming back here is is is almost a bit of a mission to let people know what's going on over there. Not that we have all the answers, but just it's just our interpretation. Yeah, you're at a better position, not only because you're experienced in China, but because you're in Hawaii and Hawaii has a different view of Asia than the mainland. I believe a more sophisticated view. But let me let me go to that. I do. I actually, you know, usually I look at the stuff electronically, but I print it out. You're on the last note. Yeah. Yeah. Your last market update, I guess called in September. Yes. And it's really interesting. It's short, relatively speaking two or three pages. And it tells it tells what's going on. And I really, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you some questions, you know, of you as a professional fund manager, you know, deal with. So what's what is going on? We we're in the middle of COVID. We're in the middle of a contested election. We're in the middle of a lot of national strife and threat. Lots of it. International too. We're in we're in terrible shape. A lot of people think. And yet you seem optimistic. I mean, relatively speaking for that sort of environment. Can you give me your analysis on it? Sure, I mean, the, you know, first and foremost, our approach to managing money is very long term. And I mean, five, ten plus years we're looking at. So we're not trying to, you know, trying to prognosticate or prognosticate on the markets and what's going on. We can do that. We have a view. But ultimately it comes down to for us the fundamentals and getting that right. But but in terms of being optimistic or at least we recognize that the world is in a funny place and both, you know, from that that's not even related to COVID. Even before him, there's a lot of changes is happening. And so I guess on two sides, first and foremost for COVID, we've, you know, when COVID happened, we did a lot of studying of past pandemics and quickly realized that, you know, as horrible as it is and as horrible as it feels, human kind adapts to pandemics. We figure out a way to cope. And so that, you know, the difficulty that's there, we have a lot of faith in our ability to deal with the pandemic. And we're seeing that. And that's what's happened with the markets are obviously showing that that particularly relates to technology. And so you talk about optimism. So on you know, when you look at the world today, there are a lot of troubles out there. And the future, yes, there are some risks that we see and things may get worse before they get better. But our belief is that we are in a very long term technological revolution that started in the 1970s and 80s with the advent of the IC chip and the Internet. And this is a continuation of what's happening now. And so as you know, I actually think that we are living in a remarkable period with an unimaginable possibilities. Yes, the possibilities are that things can get worse, but the tools and the things that are happening in our lives, like we were talking earlier about our business, that is we are just midstream in the development of these of these changes in how we live and how we work. And I think there's a lot to be very optimistic about, you know, and I think it's very easy to get lost in in the things that are in front of us. But I think that things are shifting in a way that these are seminal events and it gives us a lot of hope. So when you we like to put pen to paper, we do it first and foremost for ourselves and then our clients. We share that with whether it's on specific companies or on trends or on the markets. We continuously do that in addition to the investor letters that we send out every quarter. And, you know, it just forces us to really take a look and take inventory of what's happening and not to get caught up in, you know, in the politics of it. I mean, you know, for instance, politics on the market, they don't drive prices, even though everybody thinks it does. It doesn't short term, short, it goes up, it goes down. But that's not our game. Trying to and I spent years as a trader trying to predict whether the market is going to go up or down in a given period is a fool's game. I mean, there are some people that can do it successfully, consistently, but very few. And yes, there are times when you win the lottery, you can go to Las Vegas and you can put everything on 22 red and you can win. It's much better to invest on a long term basis and really take stock of what's happening and let that money, let it work. Because that's the way that's really where you compound your returns and it takes time and you have to be patient and you have to have faith and you have to do your homework. And if you do that and you have that confidence, whether it's through somebody else like ourselves or by yourself, that allows you to stay the course. So even when there are shocks, external shocks, exogenous shocks, you have the ability to not be flustered and you stay the course and you stay invested. And that's the best advice that we have figured out over the many years of doing it wrong. I would have, I do feel strongly about tech I think and tech demonstrates that it's strong these days. Communications tech or the big tech companies doing well and Congress hasn't shafted them yet. That may happen later, but not yet. But then I noticed that in your newsletter you're talking about big cap also and you're more into big cap than you were into tech. Can you, if I just go on my gut I would buy every tech stock around because I, as you say, the magic is there and that's what's gonna drive the world. But big cap, why big cap? So for a couple of reasons. The first thing is tech has a lot of different meanings to different people. When I talk about technology it doesn't have to be a tech company. It could be Nike that is adopting a much more online strategy. So it's just that the world is changing and we need to adapt to that. In terms of, and even bigger, I mean, when you talk about big trends the biggest trend out there is by far the end of carbon. I mean, we are going to an electric world or a solar renewable energy world. And that is, in my view, that is bigger than the pandemic. That transition is going to be, investors need to be plugged into that over the next couple of decades. In terms of big cap to answer your question. So we're not running a strategy that is trying to shoot the lights out and go for broke. We are trying to position the portfolio for the future. And we're trying to do it in a way that gives us a, I don't want to say a balanced approach but a more reasonable shot at not being blown up and being able to sleep at night. Now it's very important that what we do, we try to differentiate ourselves from the index. Because if you want the index going by the S and P it's easy and it's cheap. God bless you. Nothing wrong with that. What we do is we are actually looking for what we call tracking error. We're trying not to be correlated but yet at the same time we don't want to be shaken out of our portfolio and our positions. So big cap gives us that confidence. There is a certain comfort and a certain, there's a fundamental reason if a company reaches a certain level of market capitalization, there's a good point, there's a good possibility or good chance that they're not going down or if they fall they're not going to collapse. And so that's a big reason why we have a significant amount of big caps. Now, don't get me wrong. We do want to have exposure to those smaller, not micro small but smaller companies that have explosive growth. And we do, we have those. And we have a, what we call it's a high growth portfolio of about 10 to 15 stocks that are, they can be anywhere from a couple of billion dollars market cap to 15 to 20 billion dollars that future looks very, very bright and with explosive growth. So we want to have some of those we can sprinkle some of those in the portfolio. You know, if we, we toy around with the idea of having a portfolio that is mostly compromised with those type of names, but it's just, you're dialing up the risk that we don't need. This started by me looking at my money and how I wanted to manage it. And if I was, it was about protecting the assets and preserving them. Hence the big cap, so part of it not being completely a hundred percent technology even though technology is mostly in the portfolio on one form or another directly or indirectly. And how can I compound our returns over time but in a sensible fashion? So that's where I said that balance. But at the same time, you know, human nature is, we are twice, two times afraid to lose money than we are to gain. And so as a, you know, I've done academic research on that and your average fund manager probably 10 times afraid. And so what they do is they end up hugging an index and underperforming ultimately. Because if you're going to hug an index you're going to underperform. So the way that you actually do well is by taking a different approach and being different not to be not for different sake but because that's where the real, that's where the juices, that's where the outperformances, it's in taking those smart calculated bets, doing your homework and finding those type of companies in the sectors that are actually going to offer a differentiated profile. And so we're very clear about that. We're a boutique fund manager that we're not trying to be all things to all people. And there's going to be times we're going to underperform even though our track record has been really, really good over the last five or six years. But we do recognize that by being different, it's like anything, if all you want is to protect you downside, you're never going to make any money. So you got to accept risk, it's part and parcel of life. This is, it's like when I went to China initially it was risky, I was 19 years old. I was like, okay, we're going to take some risk. I'm here, I didn't die. I actually learned a thing or two over time and we're better for it. So we're continually, I think that what we're seeing with the pandemic, there are lessons there that the obstacle is the way that in crisis there is opportunity. The Chinese have a word called wei ji and it means danger, but it's composed of two characters. The first character, wei, is risk. And the second character, ji, is ji hui, the ji is opportunity. And so often what we do and how we approach our business and how we approach our friends and the people we want to help is understanding that you don't want to shy away from those opportunities. And the pandemic, unfortunately, has really shaken a lot of people and the media has not helped in I think scaring people. And I think that, yes, I'm not belittling or minimizing by any stretch what's happening. These are real risks and we have some real challenges politically, sociologically, economically. And for these, and what I view is a technological golden age that we are that's in front of us. And I really do wholeheartedly believe that we're gonna have to change how we live and how we operate and how we work together to really make that come true. So there's always risks, but that's part of the fun. Sure, absolutely. So one last question I wanna ask you about and that's this. So you go with the wrong way. I keep thinking it's a geographical thing. You participate in this CNBC program and you're on a panel among what? A dozen panels or something like that. And invariably these guys, the big cap, the big banks, the big managers, they're gonna be telling you their theory, the way you just told me your theory. And I'm sure that if you were there, you had the opportunity to there, meaning electronically there, you had the opportunity to listen to them all or at least a number of them and get the idea of where they were on these kinds of issues. So my question to you, Richard, is are you in the center of the array of opinions that you heard from all these guys at this program and women too, lots of women? Are you on the more conservative side, the more liberal side? Where do you fit? Where does your philosophy fit? If you could make that kind of judgment hearing them out at the program. It's a great question, Jay. I would say most of the commentary and the speakers, most of the commentary that I heard, even from somebody like Senator Warren, who I have a tremendous amount of respect for, but differ a lot in terms of, say, political approach or ideology. But she's a very smart person. She's got some great ideas. I mean, there are some real problems with our system, the way that capitalism is today. I recognize as a capitalist and as a probably financially, physically conservative, but socially liberal, I guess, is probably how I describe myself. But I do, there were a lot of views there that talked about that, that talked about empowerment and how important it was to have a diverse set of views in a leadership position, whether it's all different walks of life and people from all different types of backgrounds. I mean, it makes sense. And it's impending the evidence is there. So at the same time that, I think there is a recognition that, we're gonna have to adapt to how things are going. Things don't say the same. It was funny as I was listening to all the conversations, I thought back that I was born in 1964, which is what, 19 some odd years after World War II. And family came out of Germany, out of the Holocaust. And it wasn't that long ago. And so I think when you listen to all these people talking about this, you recognize that things don't stay the same. So I guess I would say I was probably somewhat in, it really depended on the issue. It's hard to say I was in the center on the right or the left. But I do think that we need to recognize how lucky we are to be in the United States. And having spent most of my entire adult life outside of the United States, I appreciate that. For all its problems that we have and challenges that we have, whether it's nationally or here in Hawaii, we should be grateful for what we have. And I can tell you, even like my portfolio, I spent most of my career investing in China. That was my expertise in and around Asia, but mostly China. And our portfolio is mostly in the US. Why is that? We live in an incredibly dynamic, robust, innovative country that is ugly and sloppy. It's not organized like China, which is also growing and has tremendous opportunities. It's done it a different way. And so when you listen to these people at the panel, you realize, wow, there's some, these are smart people with, you know, I'm in good company, so to speak. Yeah. Well, congratulations, Richard, on being involved in a CNBC delivery alpha investor conference. I know we will see you on the national media again. And, you know, I mean, gee whiz, being involved in that program is really something. It's almost like appearing on Think Tech Hawaii. Not quite that low, because I did tell my brother and he didn't believe me. He actually had to go check. And he said, yeah, you know, what was the last time you were in Think Tech? Thank you, Richard. It's great to talk to you. Be well, stay safe. Anytime, Jay. Thank you.