 Greetings people in front of the Chaos2West stage. Welcome to the next talk. Maybe you have the time to just fragment a little bit, as you know from the other talks. This by the way is, what is this? Ah, self-organized sessions. So if you have a topic or a kink or something you really really want to talk about, feel free, contact me or my team, actually the team and me. We do have a few slots and we are looking forward to set you up, give you a little stage for your project and everything. Then the next talk is about Bisk. It is a decentralized bitcoin exchange and the man to my right who is a little stressed and has a great name, his name is Chris Beems, like laser beams. It is going to be a good talk. Amazing. I love that. Okay, hello everybody. So we are going to talk about Bisk one moment. There we go. We are going to talk about Bisk which is a decentralized bitcoin exchange. That is me. I am a co-founder of the project along with Manfred Karer who is in the audience here today as well. Let's say a little bit about what Bisk is first. Bisk is a decentralized peer to peer bitcoin exchange. It is best described as follows in terms of its major component parts which is one, Bisk is a cross-platform desktop application. It allows anybody to buy and sell bitcoin in exchange for national currencies. That is something that not many exchanges do that are decentralized for national currencies and other cryptocurrencies. Two, Bisk is a trading protocol. It enables individuals to exchange directly with one another over the internet eliminating the need for trusted third parties to be in the middle of exchange transactions. Here at Bisk is the peer to peer network formed by all of these Bisk applications, all these Bisk clients working together, connecting with each other, implementing the Bisk trading protocol with one another. The Bisk network is fully peer to peer in that it requires no centrally controlled servers and it has no central points of failure. So Bisk is a desktop application, a trading protocol and a peer to peer network that all work together to form a decentralized bitcoin exchange. Bisk is AGPL licensed so it's free software, free software for free people. So let's talk about why we built it, why does this exist. Our mission is to provide a secure, private and censorship resistant way to exchange bitcoin for national currencies and other cryptocurrencies. When we say secure, we're talking about the safety of your funds. Today, most bitcoin exchanges that you use are centralized. That requires people to store their bitcoins on centralized services, servers, putting those bitcoins at risk. And even if you're doing this just for some short amount of time, just as long as it takes to trade and then withdraw your funds, thousands of people are doing that at the same time and that creates extreme incentives for those servers to be hacked and for those bitcoins to be stolen and this is exactly what happens. Time and time again, the beatings have and will continue so long as people continue to do it wrong, right? This is antithetical to the way bitcoin works. These hacks are tens of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, hundreds of thousands, sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars worth of bitcoin like in the very famous case of Mt. Gox. Incidentally, not coincidentally, not coincidentally, Bisk's first prototype showed up just a few weeks after Mt. Gox failure. So, security, right? Privacy. When we say private, we're talking about users' ability to control access to their own information. So today, most of those same centralized exchanges require users to divulge personally identifying information in order to set up an account and then they in turn link that data, link that data about users, about you, with your trading activity. This practice creates extreme risks too in that your personal details and sensitive financial information can be stolen, leaked or otherwise used against your own best interests. We don't have to look any further than recent news, right? You know, not bitcoin related but we probably have all heard about Equifax, literally half of all of the people in the United States, more than half of the adults being, you know, doxxed, right? 143 million people's personal data, very sensitive personal data being hacked at Equifax, right? Literally every single Yahoo account was hacked recently and this one, people who know bitcoin will know well. You know, the IRS, the financial agency in the U.S. came to Coinbase a couple of years ago and said basically we'd like all of your data about all of your users and that's not good for them. It's not good for users, right? So, secure, private, censorship resistant. So when we say censorship resistant, we're referring to users' ability to voluntarily trade with one another without interference from any third party. Today, centralized bitcoin exchanges are highly susceptible to that censorship. By their nature, they have to operate in one legal jurisdiction or another. That puts them at risk of being fined or shut down if they don't comply with the laws and rules of that jurisdiction. Which may include and usually do include restrictions on who can trade, what can be traded and almost always include requirements to collect personal information as I described above. So these are bank secrecy laws, anti-money laundering laws, know-your-customer laws. These are almost ubiquitous. This means that when you're signing up for these centralized exchanges to exchange bitcoin, you're having to give copies of your passport, your electricity bill, all kinds of sensitive information that does you no good to share. So, and again, we don't have to look any further than recent news in bitcoin this year. Many people are probably familiar with the stories of China shutting down, banning exchanges, all kinds of madness. So governments can do this, they can, they will. This is the kind of censorship that we're talking about and this is why we built this, the way that we built it. The only way to achieve all of these properties that I'm talking about, secure, private and censorship resistant, is to be decentralized. We don't build things decentralized just to do it. That's way harder than building things centralized. This is all for a reason. So let's talk about how Bisk works. Here it is in a nutshell. Let's just imagine a scenario. You want to buy some bitcoin, right? And you want to do it in exchange for euros, let's say. So in Bisk terminology, you're a buyer of bitcoin, looking for a seller of bitcoin who will accept your euros as payments. So to complete such a trade using Bisk, you'd follow a series of steps similar to the following. First, you download it, right? So you go to our website, you download Bisk, you'd install it and you'd run it just like any other application that you'd run on your desktop, right? The second thing is you'd configure Bisk with your Euro payment account details. Now, this might look antithetical to what I just said. Here you are typing in personal information, information about your bank account. Well, keep in mind, this information isn't going anywhere. This lives locally, only in Bisk, until the time that you choose to take a trade with some particular counterparty. Then and only then is this information shared with that counterparty so that you two, purely peer-to-peer, can settle that trade with one another. So the third thing is that you then go look through Bisk's offer book and you'd see, well, what existing offers are out there to sell bitcoin? You want to buy it, so who's out there that already wants to sell? And maybe you find an offer that you like and if you don't find an offer that you like then you could create your own. But in this scenario, let's imagine that we take someone's existing offer to sell. Okay, so you take it and you agree, in this case, to buy 0.1 BTC, right? 0.1 bitcoins from the seller in exchange for about 1200 of your own Euros. The next steps are that Bisk is going to orchestrate or coordinate the process of you, the buyer, and your counterparty, the seller, working together to go through a manual process, right? Bisk is integrating with essentially a legacy set of systems, legacy banking systems, if you like to think about it that way, and they're not very modern. It's not easy to automate sending Euros through a banking system. It means you're going to have to log into your banking website and click buttons, right? So Bisk is going to help orchestrate that process, but Bisk isn't going to do it itself. So this is what we mean when we say that payments happen out of band, right? Or out of system from Bisk, but Bisk helps orchestrate it. So you can see that process here waiting for blockchain confirmation. That's going to be your deposit transaction with Bitcoin, the Bitcoin being traded and your security deposits from both buyer and seller. We'll talk more about that in a second. So check that's done. You maybe wait 10 minutes for that to start payments. So that's Bisk telling you the buyer, go to your banking website, log in, and send 1200 Euros to this iBan with this first and last name. You've gotten just enough information about your counterparty to settle this trade, right? So you do that, and then you wait, right? Because banks are slow, much, much, much slower than blockchains, much, much slower than Bitcoin, right? It might take, depending on the payment method, it might take an hour or a day or even a few days for, say, a SEPA transfer like we're talking about here. Okay, and then the next thing is that the seller does receive your payment and on the seller's side, in their Bisk client, they click a button that says, I received the payment, right? Then on your side, you're going to see a notification from Bisk saying, okay, the trade is complete. The seller got the funds. You two have worked together to release the Bitcoin to you, the buyer. We'll talk a little bit more about how that happens in a second. And the trade is finished, and you can withdraw those Bitcoins to a different wallet or you can leave it in Bisk. Bisk is also a complete wallet. So that's an overview of the process, but let's break that down a little bit and talk about how trading with Bisk is different than other forms of trading Bitcoin. So the first thing is that there's no automatic order matching, right? When you use a centralized exchange, you typically say, I want to buy this much Bitcoin and it instantly happens. Your account is credited with that Bitcoin. The fiat side of your account that that exchange is debited for that amount. And the reason that that's possible is because of automatic order matching. That centralized service is providing a lot of value, right? So decentralized Bitcoin exchanges are really convenient, really nice, but they're doing that because they're managing that offer book or that order book in a centralized way. So Bisk doesn't work that way, right? It's purely peer-to-peer. You're looking for some particular person's offer to sell or they're going to take your offer to buy or whatever it is. So no automatic order matching. The Bisk protocol, like I mentioned, coordinates out of banned fiat payments. You're going to have to go log into your banking website or whatever other payment method you two have agreed on. And ultimately, settlement, like what it takes to complete the trade. That's what I mean by settlement. It takes longer with Bisk. That's different. But in return, the trade-off that you're making is that it's a far more secure, far more private and far more censorship resistant way to complete that trade. So if that's attractive to you, you would want to use Bisk, right? If you're a day trader who's trading 5, 10, 15, 20 times a day, Bisk wouldn't be a very friendly platform for you. You would want to use something centralized, probably. But if you're trying to get in or trying to get out of Bitcoin, if you're trying to get into Bitcoin for the first time, say, right, Bisk would be a very attractive platform for people who are privacy conscious. Okay, so how does Bisk actually fulfill these things? How does Bisk keep your funds secure? Well, the first is that Bisk is entirely non-custodial. What does that mean? It means we never, ever hold on to your funds. This is like the prime directive. This is like rule number one in Bitcoin. If you don't have the keys, you don't have the Bitcoin, right? You never, ever, ever give your Bitcoin away to somebody else to a trusted third party. So Bisk doesn't violate that. Centralized exchanges do. Bisk respects this important part of sort of Bitcoin's philosophy. If Bitcoin's motto is be your own bank, then Bisk's motto is be your own exchange, right? And that means you've got to hold on to your funds the whole time and never is it in our control, right? The second thing is security deposits from both buyer and seller. So both buyer and seller are going to put in a little bit of Bitcoin in addition to the Bitcoin actually being traded as a way of ensuring that nobody acts badly, right? We can talk more about that in a second, too. Those security deposits along with the Bitcoin being traded are locked away in a multi-signature transaction on the Bitcoin blockchain, which some will have heard of that might be new to people. But if you're familiar with the idea of escrow, like when you buy a house, you make this very expensive purchase and you don't trust the person that you're buying the house from to just hold hundreds of thousands of euros. So you put that with an escrow company usually, right? A trusted third party. Well, one thing that blockchain technology and Bitcoin in particular makes possible that wasn't really possible before is the idea of trustless escrow. So we put that, we bisque, helps coordinating, putting the Bitcoin being traded and those security deposits away in a so-called deposit transaction that requires multiple signatures, signatures from you, the buyer, and the seller in order to spend that Bitcoin out. So those funds, that deposit transaction is going to remain locked away in that multi-signature transaction until the seller clicks that button that says, I got the euros. And when he clicks that button, the two bisque clients are going to work together to sign out that deposit transaction. That's a little technical, right? But the point is your funds are never in the control of a third party. The only place that they're ever living is either in your bisque client or safely locked away on the Bitcoin blockchain. The final thing is that bisque includes a decentralized arbitration system as well, right? It's one thing to design a system like this. So far we've gone through the happy path, right? What it looks like when it goes well. But what happens if a mistake was made along the way? What if you as the buyer sent the wrong amount to the seller or you accidentally wrote the wrong name in the payment details or you sent it to the wrong iBan or you sent it too late or you never sent it at all, right? What if the seller never clicks that button that says, I got your money even though you sent the money? So all kinds of mistakes can happen and of course there can also be bad actors in a system like this. So these are the kinds of things that no amount of code can really solve. So we have to have human arbitration in a system like this and that's why bisque incorporates a complete decentralized arbitration system as well to handle disputes. Okay, so that's how bisque helps keep your funds secure, right? How does bisque help keep your data private? Well, the first thing is that there's no registration. There's no identity verification. Like I explained before, you won't have to be sending anybody photos of your passport with bisque. Every bisque application, every client is a Tor hidden service. So for most people, most people probably haven't run a Tor hidden service. Probably a disproportionately large number of people here have but most people will never actually experience running a Tor hidden service but with bisque it's just out of the box it works, right? And there's no central servers or databases that we're maintaining that record any data. We couldn't record it if we tried because everything is quite private. Again, it's just between you and your counterparty when you agree to settle a trade with each other or to take a trade with each other. Okay, so how does bisque help you resist censorship, right? Or how is bisque censorship resistant? Well, the first thing is that we're dealing with a fully decentralized, even a fully distributed peer-to-peer network, right? Again, every single person on the bisque network is running that client so that's a fully distributed peer-to-peer network and that's, on its own, pretty hard to shut down, right? That's the nature of these kinds of networks. The second thing is that bisque inherits, in a way, Tor's own censorship resistance, right? Because everybody's running a Tor hidden service, running on top of Tor, we inherit all the benefits of that. You inherit all the benefits of that. And the third thing is that bisque isn't structured as a company or other kind of legal entity. It's not a foundation, it's not a farine, it's none of that. It's just code. So bisque is just code that individual people are choosing to run. And we know by precedent from things like BitTorrent say, that's pretty hard to shut down. So far, code isn't illegal, right? And it's up to all of us to keep it that way and the way we keep it that way is by claiming our rights and running code like this. So where are we, right? What's the current status of this? It's been in production since April of 2016. We've been developing it, like I said, since basically just after Mt. Gox failed. So that's already almost four years in development. It took about two, two and a half years to develop and test it completely before we were comfortable going live on Bitcoin's main net or the main Bitcoin blockchain. But we did that in April of 2016, so that's about 20 months ago as I speak. And there you're just looking at, that's the monthly chart of, you know, how much Bitcoin moved through the network and there's 20 bars there, right? So 20 months of Bisk in production so far. And during that time, we've processed thousands of trades worth millions of dollars of Bitcoin rights or the dollar value of Bitcoin if you measure it that way. And we've had no downtime and we've had no major incidents. So Bisk is still small, very small by comparison to the biggest centralized exchanges out there in the world. But we've been growing steadily. And this chart is showing you, again, the U.S. dollar value of all the Bitcoin that's moved through the exchange at the current, you know, exchange rate for Bitcoin to U.S. dollars. So if you look at the left side there in April of 2016, we did about $30,000 worth of Bitcoin trading, otherwise known as nothing by comparison to big exchanges, right? But you see that trend line moving through it? We've doubled that volume about every three and a half to four months since April of 2016. And that's, you know, that's actually an exponential curve. And we've been tracking to that curve pretty well. This chart that you're looking at is up to date as of September. This is the chart from the last two months. So the fully accurate chart this last month was a pretty wild ride. We went from doing about, you know, $500,000 months to doing $500,000 days all of a sudden. And that's due to a few reasons, but the biggest reason is just everything that's been going on in Bitcoin land. So if you follow this space, you've probably heard about how most, if not all, of the major centralized exchanges have just been totally overwhelmed by, you know, the influx of new users and so on, just crumbling under the load of, you know, even shutting down new user accounts and so on, turning people away. Well, we got a little taste of that. Fortunately, we didn't shut anything down. We didn't turn anybody away. We were actually able to do quite a bit of trading, even though it was pretty intense. And so let's talk about how Bisk is funded, right? How do we keep this whole thing running? It's free software, right? Like, you know, both free as in beer and free as in speech, you can just download and run Bisk, and obviously it's, you know, AGPL licensed, but actually trading on Bisk does cost something, right? So we charge trading fees, and where those trading fees go are directly to the arbitrators, right? So one way to think about what you're paying for when you pay to trade on Bisk is you're paying for the security that those arbitrators provide. Even if the arbitrator doesn't have anything to do with that particular trade, even if your trade is a kind of happy-path trade, you never would have engaged in that trade in the first place if you didn't have the reassurance knowing that there's an arbitrator there if something does go wrong. So that's the kind of value model behind our trading fees. And those fees have averaged about one Bitcoin per month, and up until this last month or so, that wasn't enough to pay the bills. Over the last month, the price has gone up so high that actually could start to pay the bills, but primarily it's been funded out of pocket. You know, we've been growing and making a bit more money as we go, but it hasn't been enough. Maybe we're starting to turn that corner now. But the problem is that there's been no decentralized way to compensate all the other contributors that do all of the other things with Bisk, right? All of the coding, all of the, you know, monitoring IRC and Reddit and, you know, updating documentation and all of the things that aren't arbitration. There's been no clear way to compensate those contributors in a decentralized way. And I'm mentioning that here because I'm going to talk in a moment about the Bisk Dow, right? So more on that in a moment. But these are some of the issues that we're currently dealing with and that we've designed solutions to but that are in the process of being rolled out. So that's funding, right? So how has Bisk governed? How has Bisk been governed so far, right? Again, this is all changing right now. But up until very recently it's been a small team of contributors. It's been centralized maintenance arbitrage, excuse me, administration and operation. What does that mean? It just means that small group of developers and contributors are the ones that are responsible for all the code changes and so on. The founders have primarily been the key decision makers, right? And there's just a couple of founders. So that's already quite a bit of centralization, right? These are all risks when it comes to censorship resistance, right? When you have centralization of decision making and funding and so on that makes you weak with regard to censorship resistance. So that's why it's so important for us to solve this problem. And so you can think about it this way, right? Bisk's technology is decentralized, really quite well decentralized. But Bisk's governance hasn't been so far. Bisk's governance has largely been centralized. So where are we in the mission that I talked about earlier then? I said our mission is to provide secure private censorship resistance to exchange Bitcoin for national and cryptocurrencies. Well, I think it's roughly safe to check the box on secure and private, right? This is never perfect. It can always be better. But we think we've done a pretty good job of that, certainly better than the alternatives that are out there. But with regard to censorship resistance, like I say, there's work to be done. So the peer-to-peer network over Tor, right? That goes a long way toward censorship resistance. That's great. But decentralized funding, up until very recently, we hadn't made a lot of progress in that and decentralized governance. We hadn't made a lot of progress in that. So what we need now and what we're up to now is continued trading volume growth, right? If a growing number of people don't continue to do this Bisk, then it'll probably never become economically viable, right? It'll always be a very tiny, just open-source project kind of struggling to get by. But the good news is, you've seen that trend line. It seems to be going pretty well. The second thing, and this is really the most important thing, and especially to an audience like this, is to scale up contributions, right? Scale up the group of people that are contributing to Bisk, working on Bisk, working with us through GitHub and sort of all of the normal state-of-the-art tools in order to obviously improve Bisk, but to help continuing, fostering that growth, right? The Bisk that we have today wouldn't be able to scale up 10x, 100x, right? If for no other reason, then we only have a handful of arbitrators right now. So we need more people who can do arbitration, for example, in order to really, really scale up, you know, to kind of the level, anything near centralized exchanges like we know them today. We need a decentralized compensation model to incentivize all those other contributors that I just talked about. And we need a decentralized responsibility model to avoid censorship, right? So if there's just one or two heads to cut off, then there's a decent risk that they will be cut off. But if there's a whole bunch of people that are responsible for, you know, all the pieces and parts of what it means to operate and administer and maintain Bisk in its network, then that's a whole lot harder to shut down. So we have under the Dow, right, which I'm going to explain in just a moment, our governance becomes decentralized too. That's the idea. So what is the Bisk Dow? How many people have heard of this term? Dow, yeah. Okay, that's like approaching half. For those that don't know, it stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. And this is an emerging concept in the kind of crypto space, right? You can think of it as what happens to the idea of corporations when you have things like cryptocurrency in the mix? We start to see a kind of new economic entity start to show up. Corporations were an innovation three or 400 years ago. We may now have a new kind of innovation in how to organize ourselves and how to structure ourselves to work together effectively. So what I'm going to talk about in a little bit of a Dow is the kind of leading set of ideas around that. So this talk that I'm giving here is a modified version of a longer talk that I gave some months ago in Prague. And so there's a number of slides here that I'm going to move through pretty quickly because I want to make sure that there's time for questions and we just have about 10 more minutes. But for those that are interested, right, there's the overview of BISC, why it exists, what it's for, a little bit about how it feels to use it. What I'm going to talk about now is a very quick overview of the Dow. It'll be a little bit like kind of breakneck pace, but if you want to find out more, there will be a link at the end of this to a paper that we call Phase Zero, a plan for bootstrapping the BISC Dow. And if you want to dig into that, that's a great read and you can find out all about it and then you can come talk to us about it and hopefully contribute and participate. In any case, how this Dow works is we introduce a new token that we call BSQ, which is kind of like our name, BISQ is BISC's name. But BSQ is a token that's designed to facilitate a transfer of value from traders, i.e. users of the platform, people who find BISC valuable. BSQ is designed to transfer value from traders who use BISC to the contributors who are maintaining it. And the way that BISC works, that BSQ works, is that the 25 Bitcoin that supporters have donated to the project since its inception four years ago, we distribute those 25 Bitcoin to all of the past contributors by cutting up the Bitcoin into tiny pieces, a thousand Satoshi's large. It's a very small amount of Bitcoin. And the way the math works out there is we turn 25 Bitcoin into 2.5 million BSQ. We then distribute those 2.5 million BSQ to all of the past contributors, like I say, whoever helped BISC come into existence and be the project that it is today. This process is called, this idea of BSQ, a colored coin, and some may have heard of this. That's very different than the tokens and kind of ICO stuff that we see today so commonly. A colored coin on top of Bitcoin actually is Bitcoin, but with additional validation rules, additional things being possible with that coin. So again, I won't go into a lot of detail, but it's very important to say that this is not an ICO. There is no crowd sale, there is no pre-mine, there is no crowdfunding, none of that stuff. We simply don't need it. So again, it's a token designed to facilitate a transfer of value between the traders who use BISC and the contributors who maintain it. And I'll just very quickly click through this again. I want to be able to take questions. Let's see. The main problem is that the flow of funds goes only to arbitrators like I talked about and there's no way to compensate contributors in a decentralized way right now. So that's where BSQ comes in and we have five functions or utilities of this token. And the first one is trading, right? People can trade BSQ, like if you're, you know, you can trade it for dollars or euros or what, or Bitcoin, right? That's where you can trade it. The second function is spending it. People spend BSQ on trading fees, right? So as I explained before, you pay in Bitcoin today for trading fees. As we enable this functionality, you'll be able to pay for those same trading fees at a discounted rate with BSQ, which gives traders an incentive to hold onto it or to buy it in the first place. The third function is earning, right? So contributors submit what we call compensation requests for a given amount of BSQ to compensate them for whatever they did that month. And the fourth function is voting. So people who already have BSQ use that BSQ as a kind of voting chip. That's the fourth function of the token. And they use that voting to green light or to reject compensation requests. So stakeholders decide who gets new BSQ. And the fifth function is bonding. So for roles in the DAO that are inherently high trust, right? Something like an arbitrator. That's a very high trust role. A bad actor arbitrator could wreak terrible havoc on a bisque in its network. So the fifth function of BSQ is that high trust roles can bond in BSQ, can put up a very large amount of BSQ, and that BSQ can be confiscated if that arbitrator, say, or other kind of bonded contributor trusted role if they act badly. Okay, so again, a whole lot here that I'm moving very quickly through, but you can find it all in the paper. And I'll skip the bit on issuance and destruction even though it's my favorite slide in this whole thing. No time to talk about it. Okay, so let me leave it at that. You can find, again, all of this is in the paper. This is adapted directly from the paper that I mentioned. And let me just go to this last slide where you can find out more. So we're bisque underscore network on Twitter. I'm CBeams on Twitter. And of course you can download it. If you want to join us in Slack, come hang out. Talk to us about anything you like. There's a link for that. The phase zero paper is that link. So just bisque.network slash phase-zero. And of course we're on GitHub at bisque-network. So that's, I think we have five maybe ten minutes? Five minutes, okay. Yeah, so who's the first? What can users define their own settlement times? Like for CPAP, for example, you have about eight business days of reversal risk. And I saw on your example, like five days of settlement time, which is not enough to extrude the reversal risk. Yeah, so I think the question is about how long is the kind of window for settling a trade? No, but I can actually set in my offer as a seller. Can you set it? Yes. No, yeah. So if you caught it in the slide that I was showing, for SAPA trades there's a number of days that you have to settle the trade. That's fixed. So the seller can't specify that, but it's fixed at five days or whatever it is. Simply because that's what we found works over time. Well, the internal CPAP regulations say it's eight days, business days. Yeah, we're not following that. It's a pragmatic approach where we're saying if we set it at this many days, we never have problems. If we started having problems, then we'd extend it. So, yeah. Thank you. I have a couple of questions. So I didn't really understand if you do crypto to crypto as well. We do, yeah. So I focused on talking about crypto fiat or Bitcoin to US dollars, Bitcoin to Euro, that kind of trading, because that's really the core of Bitcoin. Really, the core of the mission is to give people, there has to be one good on-ramp into Bitcoin from the fiat world. And that really doesn't exist today. The only thing you can do is go to a Satoshi Square or have a friend or a family member who already has Bitcoin. If you do that, if you do something like in-person like that, then you can have a reasonably good sort of privacy and security profile in that initial trade to get into Bitcoin. But there has been no good way to do that online. And so that's really why Bisk exists. But once we had done that, then it was pretty easy to add in crypto to crypto trading as well. Because if you think about it, like I said, settlement, the payment happens out of band, right? So you're going to your bank website and so on. Well, that's for a Bitcoin to Euro trade. Well, if you want to do a Bitcoin to Monero trade, Monero is really just a different payment method, right? So you're going to settle the Monero side out of band from Bisk as well. So that's kind of a good way to think about it. But the constraint there is that one side of every trade is Bitcoin. So I had someone ask me today about doing an Ether to Dogecoin trade on Bisk, and that's not supported. It would be a two-step process to go from Doge to Bitcoin, Bitcoin to Ether or something like that. OK, so if I wanted to sell some ERC20 token, I cannot just go and list it there unless I accept Fiat. No, well, so there's two things. So if you wanted to sell an ERC20 token, the question is, is that already a listed token on Bisk? Who lists the tokens? Anybody who issues a pull request. OK. So you have to issue a correct pull request and we'll always merge it so anybody can add a token and people do that all the time. So that's it, yeah. OK, as a seller, is there a way for me to automate confirmations through some kind of API from my bank if I'm selling like larger volumes? So I don't have to go and confirm manually in Bisk that, yes, I received the money to my account. Is there some way? So Bisk does have an API that can automate a lot of things, but we don't have a setting. You've got to take the mic away from her, man. But we don't have sort of like bindings into all of the different banks and stuff like that. Again, mostly they don't have APIs to do it, but even if they do, we don't have that support. That could be something that somebody contributes for banks that do support automated access, but we don't have it yet. Anybody else? Yeah. Hey, great talk. Question. In your paper, you use the term bonding. Is it some kind of stake mechanism? The term, sorry? Bonding. Bonding, yeah. Is it some kind of stake or is it something else? Yeah, so the question is, when I use the word bonding with BSQ for these high trust roles under the Bisk Dow, do I mean like stake or staking or having something at stake? That's another term in the industry that people use, staking. Yes, I mean the same thing. We call it bonding because there's a long history of, you know, say plumbers, guilds, well, you know, bonded plumbers, right, or bonded taxi drivers or whatever it is. That's a common term of art. And the second thing is it's a reserved word for us because we have stakeholders. People who hold BSQ are our stakeholders, so we didn't want to confuse stakeholders with staking. Yeah, same thing though. Okay, thank you very much. Cool. I'll be around at the Bitcoin table, so happy to answer questions. I will ask you when you can explain. Okay, okay. Chris Beam, I'm so sorry. Chris Beam beams even. Plural. I'm so sorry to know more questions out of time. The next talk starts in five minutes, but where can all these wonderful people find you and torture you with even more questions? Yeah, so Bisk.network is a website, Bisk underscore network on Twitter, and I'll be at the Bitcoin table pretty much all conference. Okay guys, you know. Cheers, thanks.