 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today, we have with us Hamrat Singh, who is an independent researcher and also a political analyst. And we're going to be talking about Trudeau's visit to India to begin with. There was this entire hooha in the media about Trudeau coming and this term being thrown around Khalistan. So, how do you see the media's coverage in this entire thing? See, I think somewhat it started before his visit. So, there was a whole sort of agenda fixing before he was in India. And throughout the time he was in India, there was a consistent effort to regularly use the term Khalistan, blow it out of proportion, I would say. I mean, I don't think maybe less than a one or two person Sikh have that aspirations in their mind of separate Sikh nation. But the way it was blown out of proportion, I think it has a worst effect on Sikh community. I mean, they look at in a very, like, they have a very bad, what do you call it, memory of these seven days in a way that we all are categorized in that block of separatists instead of we the one who actually have participated so much either in independent struggle or throughout the nation development. So, yeah, I think, I mean, the way media portrayed it was really painful for the community. What is the community's reaction in India and in Canada also? Both the nations, how do they feel about it? See, with Justin Tudeau being the Prime Minister of a country which has four Sikh members of parliament and around 18 member of parliament from Punjab and four Sikh members in cabinet, we all look for Canada as a nation where Sikhs are progressing really well. And throughout the world, not just India, but Sikhs from UK, US, Canada, which has a very large number of Sikhs living there, were looking forward for his visit in India and looking forward to welcome him in India. And the way a junior minister was sent to receive him when he visited, when he was like in India. I mean, it really shocked many of Sikhs because we were looking and we were of the opinion that the Indian government would celebrate his coming to India as our people doing so well outside India, our Sikh community, Sikh community of India progressing so well in outside India. But we felt that he was cold-shouldered because of his inclination towards Sikhs. I don't know, there is any proof of his inclination towards Khaalesan. But yes, there is a lot of proof of his inclination towards Sikhs. So, I felt that Sikhs somewhat felt that, I mean, because he has such an inclination towards Sikhs, India, either the central government or the state government when he visited UP or Gujarat, didn't received him so well. And seeing how the Prime Minister always receives the, you know, leaders of other countries, like he goes to the airport to pick them up and greet them there itself, it was actually quite, I would say, I don't know, quite disrespectful for him to meet Trudeau in the last day of his official visit. Yeah, second last day. Second last day. Yeah. And also he tweeted after four days, I think. I mean, the Twitter master is tweeting after four days. That's quite shocking for all of us. I mean, obviously, we all look how he tweets and greets and meets everyone who is in India from different nations. And also with such a big Indian diaspora, not just Sikh diaspora, the complete Indian diaspora in Canada, I think he should have been more friendly towards, I mean, just in Trudeau. Also, I mean, aren't we blowing the Khalistan issue out of promotion because from 2010, there are many business ties which is not materializing between India and Canada. And the larger focus should be on materializing those business ties to improve those things, either on farming sector or other sectors. But unfortunately, we did not saw anything of such sort. So I think there is a sort of mistrust developed with this seven days visit between Indian government and the Sikh community as a whole, not just in India, but abroad. One also have to look that 84 happened, Operation Blue Star, then Massacre of Seeks after Indra Gandhi assassination. Then Punjab has seen a 10 years of violence where so many of Sikhs were killed, few militants, and so many of even innocent people were killed during these encounters. And I don't know if there are any arrests or any one convicted or I mean, for those killings or the massacre, I mean, I have a phrase, I always use a phrase that 84 never happened actually, because if 84 would have happened, there must have been someone who have actually done that. And if there are no arrests, that means it might have not happened only because no one killed people in Delhi, no one massacred people in Delhi and across India. And after that, no one got justice. So obviously there will be some elements in the community who will speak against the government, be it BJP or Congress because it's Indian government who did this. And there are few Sikhs also in Canada who are in a blacklist who cannot come to India. So why would they support India? They cannot come to India. They cannot have any relationships still in India. So they have their agendas, they've propagated. But that's what is shocking, the way the community was categorized as separatist and as all-turban men are Khalassanis. So there was this controversial picture that's been floating around of Jaspal Atwal with the Trudeau's wife who's accused militant in Khalassani militant. So how did his name come about in the list of invitees? See, before looking at was his name there or not, obviously his name was there. We also have to look with this angle that how did he came to India? Justin Trudeau, he was not a part of Justin Trudeau convoy. He was given visa to India. He was taken out of the blacklist by home ministry. And then you question other people. See, I totally agree with the fact that a controversial man should have not been invited. But the first question needs to be asked to the government officials. And how do you see the international media coverage of this entire issue? See, because the way everything happened, I mean I think international media was bound to cover it and they actually covered it. And for the first time for many this Khalassan word came. So in a way, instead of, I mean, removing this word or not using this word much, you have done marketing for this word outside India. I mean, people have maybe Googled after reading to that news and try to understand what this, what the Khalassan is or what is this six separatist demand? I mean, because people, I don't know, even everyone in India is aware about this, but definitely people in abroad are not much aware about this. And you had done free marketing for it. So even in a diplomatic way, this is a blunder. I would say that. So on more political lines as we discussed before, how do you think Punjab government should have used this opportunity of Trudeau coming in? So I would answer this in two ways. One, with one of the only state where Congress have like four, five years of rule and before coming into 2019 election, they should have made Punjab as a role model to portray to the rest of the India. And for that, we need all sort of support. And Canada with such a large proportion of Sikhs living there might, that country would have been someone who could have really helped Punjab to grow. And instead of talking about farming, about industry, about startups in Punjab, through the help of India, as well as in Canada, Captain Trudeau, sorry, Captain behaved in a very, what he called strange manner. I mean, either it was revenge sort of thing because he was not allowed to visit Canada before his elections. But yeah, I mean, before also when Sajjan visited India, he was not ready to meet him. Captain was not ready to meet Sajjan. And even now, the way he was only focusing on this Kalisaan topic, actually Punjab should have gained a lot out of this visit, but I don't think it has anything gained. And what about the vows and the BJP trying to get more votes from this, more Sikh votes? See, frankly speaking, BJP never had a base in Punjab. I mean, but they are an ally, very old ally of Badals, the Shri Mani Akali Dal. And Shri Mani Akali Dal, which has not performed well in last Punjab election, should have used this opportunity to garner more Sikh votes to, I mean, to get more Sikhs on their side. But yeah, definitely they have failed. Those of Vir Badal met him when Trudeau was there in Golden Emblee. Do you think Trudeau should take some steps in his own rule, in his own country? See, we have to understand how this, the whole Western democracy functions, Canada, England, UK, US, whatever, these Western democracies function. I mean, they will not stop you from propagating your messages until that breaks some law. And a peaceful propagation of any message in these countries are allowed unlike what we do, I mean, we do moral policing for everything. And they don't do it. They believe in the idea of the true democracy. And which I think India should learn and adopt. And I hope gradually it will. We also have to look how the Sikh community in India function. I mean, it is, the complete Kurudwara management is under a law, under an act by, in constitution, Kurudwara Management Act. And I believe it's only the Sikh community where the democratic elections take place in every Kurudwara, be it Delhi Sikh-Kurudwara Parbandha Committee, be it Shri Mani-Kurudwara Parbandha Committee, Amritsar. And every four years there's an election, there is, democratically, these people are selected, they represent Sikh community, they represent those Kurudwaras. When have a Kalisani won in those elections? Never. And then you say that this Kalisani thing is reviving and there are many Sikhs who believe in the idea of Kalisana. I don't see anyone believing in the idea of Kalisana. Already Punjab has seen a lot in those 10 years of 80s and 90s. And it's been two decades now and they are nowhere looking at those things again. And they know those people who were there in that time, know what Punjab has witnessed. Why do you think this Kalisana issue was blown out so much out of proportion? Like every media, apart from criticizing Trudeau for his attire or overdoing the Indian ethnicity, why do you think Kalisana was just used everywhere and thrown around? See, I would have a simple answer for this that media likes conflict. So, conflict sells. So, whenever there is a conflict, media get more readers. So, I think that would be the best answer for this. I mean, I am shocked the veteran journalist also blown it out of proportion. Maybe Shekhar Gupta Barkhada, the way they covered the whole story. And media should have been more sensitive to the issue and should have actually tried to take up more both perspectives. And I overall feel that the community at large is not properly represented in Indian media, maybe because of less number of Sikhs in the media. But with progress, they should start understanding the Sikh sentiments and should start taking these things very much in a very much balanced way. Seeing all of this in consideration, although you have already mentioned few points before, but what would have been the ideal response to Trudeau coming from the government and the media? How do you think this should have progress? See, firstly, I felt that, I mean, Sikh being an integral part of the Indian society, the Prime Minister Modi should have applauded just in Trudeau for having four ministers in his cabinet and should have applauded the Sikh community in Canada for doing tremendous work either in business or in corporates or in the politics. I think the government should have actually propagated the idea and should have actually created a bridge between the Sikh community abroad and India through just in Trudeau's visit. That could have been done actually. And also Sikhs somewhat would have felt good after no justice for 84, after no justice for whatever happened for ten years in Punjab. Sikhs would have felt at least something good with that just in Trudeau and the Sikh ministers who accompanied him are so much respected in our country. And at the same time for media, I would say that media should be more sensitized towards the community as a whole, which I already mentioned. And for this issue, don't just sell conflict. I mean, you have to actually make people understand the situation. And it should be a very balanced reporting and the media should have focused more on business ties about how Indian diaspora is growing in Canada and how that is actually a very good thing and how Sikh brothers and sisters are really doing well in Canada. But I think because of less awareness about the community as a whole and about the issue as a whole also because Kalasthan is something which tied 20 years back. So media actually blown it out of the proportion. And do you think it's going to have a bad effect on the relation of the Sikh community with our Prime Minister and also with the Prime Minister and Canadian Prime Minister? See, I think it has definitely made Sikhs feel bad. I remember one of my friends saying that he is getting more love from India than he is getting from Canada. So I think that's a pain among Sikhs. Justin Tudo was behaved in this way because he is a supporter of Sikhs. He likes Sikhs. And this feeling is really bad. This is a mistrust with among Sikh community and the government and misrepresentation in media. And I think hopefully with time some measures in government and both the media will take two sort things out. Thank you for talking to us. And as these issues if they come up again, we'll be coming back to you for more interviews. This is all the time we have a news click. Thank you for watching.