 For the past 20 years, the war in Afghanistan has been one of the key issues defining the relationship between our two countries. With U.S. troops now withdrawing, there's an important opportunity to reassess our shared interests and our shared priorities. During this brief introduction, we'd like to highlight three of these. The first, perhaps, most important priority we share is the need to seek a political settlement with the Taliban and to prevent the descent into an Afghan civil war and the terrorism, instability and humanitarian crisis, which would almost certainly be the result if this were to happen. The second priority we share is the need to identify and support policies and mechanisms which ensure strategic stability in South Asia, nowhere else in the world, do three nuclear-armed states with powerful militaries adjoin each other as they do in China, India and Pakistan. The mechanisms we've been relying on for generations to manage tensions and resolve conflicts may no longer be the right ones to get the job done, not least because they no longer reflect the reality of U.S.-China competition and the complicated balance of power between our countries. The third priority we share is the need to find concrete areas where the United States and Pakistan can expand and deepen our cooperation, from climate change and pandemic relief to trade and technology. We are honored that Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, His Excellency Dr. Assad Majeed Khan, is here with us today in person to provide insights into Pakistan's strategic thinking on these issues and other regional and security dynamics. Ambassador Khan's distinguished career as a Pakistani diplomat gives him unique perspective on the next chapter of U.S.-Pakistan relations. We are also delighted that Ambassador Richard Olson, USIP Senior Advisor, is with us and will be moderating our conversation with the ambassador and taking questions from our virtual audience. We invite you to pose your questions via the chat function on our website and we welcome you to follow the discussion on Twitter using the hashtag at USIP Pakistan. With your permission, please allow us to hand the floor to Ambassador Olson to begin today's discussion. Good afternoon to our viewers here in the States and good evening in Pakistan and warm welcome to Ambassador Khan and what a pleasure it is to be doing this in person. I think the first event in person that we're doing at USIP. Dr. Khan, I'd like to start off our discussion by asking you about your vision for the relationship between Pakistan and the United States. As President Lee's grant, they just said the relationship has been framed for much of the past two decades by Afghanistan, at least from Washington's perspective. It has been framed by the conflict in Afghanistan from which we are at least ending our military engagement by counterterrorism concerns and sort of looming in the background of the nuclear weapons question and I would like to hear your views about where you think the relationship might be going now that we're at this important inflection point. Thank you very much, Ambassador Olson and thank you very much President Lee's for your grant there, for hosting me this afternoon, a good afternoon to your audience and also a very good evening to my compatriots in Pakistan. It is really I would say a special privilege to be the first speaker doing the first physical interaction at the US Institute of Peace. We have over the years in working together. Back then my host was now our National Security Advisor, Dr. Moide Yousaf. So thank you very much for having me. Now I think you are right in describing the present as an inflection point in our relationship and I think for the past 20 years Afghanistan and circumstances surrounding the situation in Afghanistan, the ups and downs in the conflict in Afghanistan has frankly defined the content, the tone and context of the relationship. So I cannot see a future without first looking at the background in which Afghanistan situation has evolved and our capacity to do it right because if we are able to bring the Afghanistan conflict to a mutually satisfactory conclusion, I think that would largely and in so many ways affect the future of the relationship. So if you ask me, now I think we should all be thinking about finding ways in which we can do Afghanistan right because if we are able to do Afghanistan right, it will definitely enhance our ability to work together. Not that it should be like that unfortunately frankly because we were friends much before Afghanistan happened and I do look forward to being friends with the United States and we do all in Pakistan even after Afghanistan is resolved. But since Afghanistan is the primary and principal preoccupation in Washington inside the Beltway today, I feel it is absolutely important for us to basically see ways, explore ways, think of ways in which we can do it right and frankly things are not looking up in Afghanistan. I think that is absolutely correct that it is a difficult situation in Afghanistan. Those of us who watch Afghanistan right now are familiar with the fact that the Taliban seems to be militarily ascendant at least in certain areas gaining ground in provincial areas and the outline areas. So I think that the question that I would want to ask you and bearing in mind that Pakistan will have bear the impact of intensified civil war in Afghanistan and Pakistan has played of course an important role in the peace process and has influence with the Taliban which is now ascendant. You said it is important that we do it right but it is hard to do it right and what would you want to see in terms of U.S. policy with Afghanistan as it relates to Pakistan? What do you think the U.S. should be doing in Afghanistan? Again I think Afghanistan and I have been working on this relationship now for many years directly and for some decades indirectly and particularly for the past 20 years we did have I would say our differences on how to do it and that is how I believe Afghanistan for some time did become a contention in our relationship but today clearly I think Afghanistan is a convergence between Pakistan and United States because you do want to see peace and stability. We certainly want to see peace and stability. We want all the parties to get to some understanding which results in an inclusive end state in Afghanistan. You want to see reduction in violence. We want to see reduction in violence and I think that provides us with a huge, huge basis to work from. And now the question is that what is it that we can do together in terms of supporting the peace process because really Ambassador and I will be very candid with you and through you with your audience because today when I look at the papers in the morning and I listen to some of the discussions taking place across the think tank circuit the whole conversation in Washington DC has come around to the protection of embassy, security of the airport and the visas for the Afghan interpreters which is frankly not what it should be. We believe that the best investment investing in peace in Afghanistan is basically the best counter-terrorism measure and best guarantee against fighting terrorism in Afghanistan and why I say that I'd like to explain that also because clearly I hear a lot of conversation about over the horizon capacity about countries in the region providing basis but then the conversation should be about what we can do to make the peace process successful because if the peace process is successful you will have a partner government in Afghanistan you will have people you could work with in Afghanistan and similarly you know I think peace process has to be basically the intra-Afghan negotiations have been obviously complicated and has been difficult but if you look at how things have played out and I have always maintained that if the US Taliban negotiations were maybe three on a scale of one to ten in terms of complexity the intra-Afghan negotiations are at least eight or nine in terms of complexity so if it took United States maybe a year and a half to get to a point where you could actually agree on some basics then intra-Afghan process perhaps would have or should take longer and if that time frame is reduced because there is a date for your withdrawal from Afghanistan then I think that should be made up by putting more capital behind or in support of the peace process so what is it that US Pakistan and not just United States and Pakistan I think what is it that China, Russia, Iran can do to support the peace process and I think the Afghan parties need to hear it both parties the Taliban and the Afghan government need to hear it very clearly and very loudly and I think the extended Troika declaration which again is a reflection of the broad regional consensus of all the key players and of all the countries that have over the past many years invested in various ways in the peace process have some channels of communication with Taliban and the national government also so and that those two declarations clearly I think provide that basis for all of our countries to work together perhaps with greater political capital into the peace process just perhaps one last question in Afghanistan then maybe we can move on to some of the more of the bilateral issues between the United States and Pakistan but it seems that in terms of how the Afghan peace process has gone so far that the republic side has been prepared to entertain notions of substance and the Taliban side really has not, has not engaged on matters of substance they have an agreement with the United States that deals with withdrawal and counterterrorism assurances principally but have not engaged with their Afghan counterparts on the substance of the actual vision for Afghanistan so with the departure of US forces it would seem there would be no reason not to for the Taliban not to engage substantively and yet the most recent statement is that they are waiting for about a month to put them out so it put together put out a peace proposal so it looks a bit like the Taliban is seeking to enhance its military advantage so it can be in a stronger position so isn't it really the responsibility as you say of the region as a whole now given diminished US influence to pass a message especially to the Taliban that it is time for accommodation and for compromise and for direct negotiations with the republic side on substantive issues trust me that's the message and if you read the fine print of the two declarations that I am alluding to I mean they are not the national conversations that individual countries have with the Taliban whatever we tell them is separate but these two declarations clearly give out those messages that taking over Kabul by force will not be acceptable and that all countries support an inclusive and state which when translated into plain English means that they have to basically get to a common understanding there has also been a clear message on the reduction of violence reaching to the point of a comprehensive ceasefire between all the parties and really I think and then Pakistan has consistently maintained one that you know peace process is a shared responsibility to that we would want to see the US withdrawal synchronize with progress in the peace process we don't want a precipitate US withdrawal and clearly you know I hear when I hear the president of United States say that you know this is not a winnable war but then peace certainly is winnable ambassador and I think that's where we need to put our energies and that is where we need to focus on because we have also always consistently maintained that there is no military solution and I think that realism is there with all the parties today which perhaps was not there before but then what is missing is the recognition that peace is the best way forward because I think the United States has invested the most in terms of resources the region has lost too many lives and I think it's not just about saving the homeland and it's not just about the ISIS and Al-Qaeda threat I think it's about the people of Afghanistan it's about the people of the region and their expectations and I think that's where because Al-Qaeda was a threat yesterday and if I were to use any matrix of US success then you succeeded within maybe a year of your arrival in Afghanistan because we worked together in dismantling Al-Qaeda completely now to basically to change the way of life of a people I believe is a choice that perhaps should be left to the people and identification of the right enemy is absolutely critical and I think it's important that that mistake is not made again and it has to be a solution which involves all Afghan parties and we as outsiders can only help and support and I can tell you and I can speak for the government of Pakistan ambassador we have very clearly you know our prime minister was in Kabul our army chief and DGISI was in Kabul Dr. Abdullah Abdullah was in Pakistan there are other key leaders who have visited Pakistan we have reached out to everyone our prime minister has been absolutely clear and categorical in saying that whosoever is in government in Pakistan you know or in Afghanistan we will be ready to deal with them well I really I like the phrase pieces winnable I think the US Institute of Peace can endorse that approach if I might shift ambassador I'd like to talk about some of the broader aspects of the US Pakistan relationship and in particular I wanted to ask you about the concept of geoeconomics which was announced I think this March in Islamabad as the defining idea for Pakistan's foreign policy going forward a shift from geopolitics to geoeconomics and I think that's a very interesting and welcome development but I think we're looking to see what the flesh would be on those bones I wonder if you can help us to understand what Pakistan means by geoeconomics and what that might mean for the implications for the relationship with the United States especially since our economic relationship is important but relatively small and smaller than say the security cooperation that has existed in past years so I wonder how you see geoeconomics as a framing relationship for the US and how the government of Pakistan plans to go about implementing this geoeconomics vision you know I would invite you to go back to my opening remarks that I made in my first presentation here at USIP as Pakistan's ambassador almost two and a half years ago and the central theme and message was that you know we want to put our house in order and doing the economy right is the best way to strengthen Pakistan internally and therefore our foreign policy should be driven by our economic interest by the preference and priority of the government to provide better life and livelihood to our people you know so that is what geoeconomics is for us and it is those economic considerations that it's not to say that politics will be completely divorced but economics will be a very important factor in helping us set our priorities and then in guiding us in making the choices that we wish to make in terms of our relationships both in the region and beyond now I will very respectfully slightly differ while yes our economic relationship may be small when you look at it from Washington and ideally it should be much bigger maybe 20 times bigger than what it is and I frankly and then personally see huge potential for growth in our part having said that despite all the issues and challenges that we have faced over the past 20 years United States is still the largest export destination for Pakistan you know if you combine our goods exports and services exports they come to around 6.2 billion dollars and IT sector is our largest export sector in Pakistan and in that area almost 80% of our export is directed at United States so it's and not just that you know United States is also I mean on my way here I was looking at the investment figures they may have gone down comparatively speaking in recent years but if you look at the trajectory of US investments in Pakistan United States has been all along one of the five top investors in Pakistan United States is the it used to be the third largest remittance provider but today it is the fourth largest remittance provider which is 2.4 or 5 billion dollars annually so and I and in saying that frankly we are just scratching the surface because where we are in the region the size of our economy the commonalities that we have by way of us belonging to the common law tradition or legal tradition you know our sense of contract and rights and obligations is same as yours you know our understanding of property rights is also the same as yours most of our you know entrepreneurs are either educated or you know they had their education here so and then the question and something that Prime Minister alluded to in his interview with the New York Times the other day and then this is really a point that I believe in also in Japan there is a saying that all ships on a rising tide rise together you know so we are in a region you know we are sandwiched between two of the largest economies two of the fastest growing economies and we would like to position ourselves in a way that we will remain net consumer of energy for as long as I can see in the future United States is fast emerging as a net exporter of energy you know and I see a clear convergence there in future agriculture we have more mouths to feed than any other part of the world you know and that is not going to change anytime soon you are a major agricultural producer that is another area where I see a convergence and complementarity between your industry and our you know industry Middle East is a net food importer so energy, agriculture, technology I think these are the areas where I feel there is tremendous potential there is tremendous potential and particularly as the global supply chain is being reconfigured I think Pakistan is well placed well placed to be an important part of that supply chain and then in particular you know look at I think this is again something which is either overseen or is not appreciated as much as it should we are the third largest littoral state on the Indian Ocean Rim and we are on the mouths of the state of Hormuz and the Arabian Sea you know and we are a big country we are the fifth largest country in the world so those are most trade would pass through or close to Pakistan our own trade flows through those channels you know so we have and already I think the US companies ExxonMobil, Accelerate, Kargil all these companies have set up their operations in South, in Karachi, around Karachi which again I think is a sign of growing US corporate interest and footprint in Pakistan Yes and those as you say Ambassador the market fundamentals are actually good for Pakistan some of them including you didn't mention but a growing population and a growing middle class population that makes for good markets potentially but I would want to just press you a little bit on this investment question because Pakistan has improved as a business friendly place it has risen on the World Bank's ease of doing business scale but it probably still has some more work to be done I would think Yes and I wonder if you can tell us what initiatives the government is thinking to make it easier for existing investors and for potentially to attract future investors into Pakistan I couldn't agree more and we need to do a lot more and we are determined to do a lot more and I think improving the ease of doing business standing or index is something which is very close to prime ministers because as you also pointed out I think all other fundamentals are solid and sound when it comes to we have a growing market you know the rate of return is good companies find it attractive to go there in Pakistan but then it is the regulatory complexities you know that make things difficult for businesses to operate and that's where the prime minister has actually put his personal capital also we have improved by about 28 points this year the World Bank report is I think expected next month we hope to go further up on that list also and not just that the FBR has just announced this one window project which basically enables the exporters and importers and it brings together the entire Pakistani system all the regulatory bodies agencies and ministries under one roof or in one window and that process has been streamlined so this is yet another example of the steps that the government is taking to improve and the other I think very important part and this is something that I have since and experienced here in Washington DC which is the willingness of our leadership particularly the economic leadership to engage with the US businesses directly to hear their concerns and then to make a serious and sincere effort to address those concerns because frankly and this is a recognition which is there in our system we got to have happy investors in Pakistan and it is only when we have happy investors that they will basically relay that message back to others in their system so with that in mind we do keep those communications open the US Pakistan Business Council has been organizing interactions with our economic leadership with the Minister for Finance Minister for Economic Affairs Division Minister for Advisor on Commerce Minister for Industries and their concerns have been even pre-budget consultations, post-budget feedback and data protection bill we even got the deadline extended you know for the feedback from the US corporate sector because US remains a big important player so what I am trying to say is that we recognize this we want to do more we may still be lacking but the political will and determination is absolutely there Thank you Ambassador you mentioned that you are next door to the largest market in the world and of course China looms large in Washington these days this administration has followed the previous administration in defining great power competition as one of the defining challenges of our time and there is a bipartisan consensus that dealing with China's activities that are inimical to our interests is a central framing element of our foreign policy and Pakistan of course has had a long-standing relationship with China that has been enhanced in recent years especially with the China-Pakistan Economic Order but in other dimensions as well so I wonder how you see and the government I think has been very clear that it does not see its relationship as a zero sum game between the United States and China but nonetheless I would be interested in how you see Pakistan straddling what it seems to be an increasing divide between Washington and Beijing especially when I think from the Washington perspective there will be strategic choices that will need to be made at some point perhaps about the digital divide that seems to be emerging between the West if I may use that term and China and 5G issues and others I'd be interested in your thoughts on how Pakistan sees itself navigating this relationship between two of its principal partners I think Ambassador that is going to be a challenge for our community and when I say our community I mean diplomatic community and all of us who work for different diplomatic establishments will have to basically deal with this challenge and now if I were to basically put it in one phrase in terms of how we see it from where we are situated we clearly see enough space for both United States and China to coexist and cooperate and in fact that cooperation actually serves the best interests of both China and United States and not only that it also serves the interests of the region and particularly I would say Afghanistan is a space where we believe it should be the arena for cooperation rather than competition or rivalry and the other phrase that I'd like to use is that while you are the indispensable nation China today is an irresistible country for many developing countries for what they bring to the table in terms of trade and investment related incentives in terms of economic assistance and support and these are obviously considerations which will weigh heavily with countries and they will make choices based on how they read and they see their best interest as a professional diplomat my view on this is that I personally don't see a potential replay of the Cold War in the manner and style of hard alliances that the world witnessed during the Cold War times where you know there was this one silo where all wars up at countries were positioned and then there was this NATO alliance and then countries were just trading with countries that were part of that alliance structure you know I personally don't see it going that far it is hard for those who see this competition intensify to basically read the future as we speak but we in Pakistan at least you know we feel that you know the space exists Pakistan has very successfully managed good relations even during Cold War times good relations between China and United States we are definitely keen and determined to maintain that balance how far we will succeed is a question on which I would say the jury is still out but at least the intention definitely is there as perhaps a follow-on question to that Ambassador I think we probably do need to talk about a couple of human rights issues and one of the areas of concern at least in Washington as I'm sure you have detected but amongst credible human rights organizations like Amnesty International as well as the Plight of the Weakers in China and while Pakistan has been a leading advocate for the rights of Kashmiris and expressed great concern about the human rights concern of Kashmiris there does not seem to have been an equivalent expression of concern about the Weakers and their condition in China I wonder if you could help us to understand how those are distinguished in Pakistan I think and this is almost one question that is always asked and raised in most of our interactions and I can only say that you know these are two very very different situations so far as Pakistan is concerned and therefore we really don't see any comparison because first of all Kashmir is a dispute between India and Pakistan and Pakistan is a party that has a legitimate right to voice its concerns on whatever happens there and those voices of concern have not just been raised by Pakistan but they have been raised by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights they have been raised by the European Commission they have been raised by international bodies, OIC and in many cases we echo what is being said by these internationally acknowledged and recognized assessments and evaluations the second point is that really I think when this question is raised here I see built into that question is this expectation for us to basically act and behave like United States we are not United States of America and the way you raise those issues obviously Pakistan cannot raise those issues and if there are problems that we see with our friends then we raise them but we raise them privately, we don't raise them publicly so in that regard and also I think when these things are taken to the Chinese they obviously do not accept those versions or accounts you know and they challenge that and in support of their contention they would argue that there are no refugees the genocide is claimed but where is the evidence so obviously they challenge the assertions that are made but it is not for us to sit in judgment on what is being said here or what is being explained by the Chinese side where we have concerns we do voice them but we do voice them privately Thank you I'd also like to talk a little bit about press freedom if I could there is of course a widespread feeling that throughout South Asia there is increasing pressure on the free press and unfortunately it seems Pakistan is not an exception to that trend there have been several prominent incidents recently of journalists either disappearing temporarily or unfortunately sometimes permanently and a feeling perhaps of greater pressure from the state on the free press in Pakistan and I wonder if I can ask you to address those concerns Well first of all I think while focusing on the concerns and things that may actually be missing from the equation in Pakistan I think it is also important to look at and appreciate what we have and in terms of the availability of the number of channels in terms of the existing media freedoms where people say what they must and people write what they can and even if you look at all those stories that are reported today from Pakistan about various so-called violations they are reported locally because I come from a generation who grew up that grew up in the 70s and the 80s and in those times all of those stories were broken by foreign media houses so this is one measure of the freedom that media and journalists have and this government is in particular committed and there is a bill already with the parliament for the protection of journalists and that intent should be correctly read so as I was saying in another context earlier that the political will and intent to provide the protections and freedoms that are basically promised in the constitution of Pakistan is definitely there it is not just that protection of journalists bill but there are other initiatives also in the pipeline that would provide the journalists the protections that they need I know the situation may not be ideal I am not saying that this is where we would like to be but I can also say that our leadership and our system is definitely committed to provide a level playing field and an open space for our journalists to report what they do and in most cases they are able to do that and I think that aspect unfortunately doesn't get highlighted as much as it should be Ambassador I would like to ask one more question and then I think we are going to open it up for questions and answers from our virtual audience so I hope the questions are being generated and fed in and we will turn to the audiences concerns in a few minutes but let me just ask about in conclusion about your relationship with your neighbor to the east earlier this year General Bajwa said Pakistan is ready to resolve all outstanding issues with its neighbors through dialogue in a dignified and peaceful manner and I think this was striking not least because it was delivered by an army chief and sometimes in Washington at least the army is considered to be more hardline on these issues so that seemed to represent a real possible opening at the same time it seems that perhaps there has been a hardening of events since then but I wonder how you would see the possibility of a genuine dialogue between India and Pakistan I wish I could be half as optimistic as I am about the prospects of the peace process in Afghanistan because frankly the way things are developing between India and Pakistan although I have always been someone who believes in a normal relationship and you are absolutely right and it's both ironical and sad that when we have a prime minister who is clearly invested in a normal relationship with India a leader who wishes to resolve our outstanding issues with India through dialogue and engagement and an army chief who shares that vision completely we have a leader and we have a government that has unfortunately built a career out of punching Pakistan and I think that creates a complication in our relationship that essentially leaves the normalization to the ups and downs of Indian domestic politics so whenever and wherever the government, the BJP led government under Prime Minister Modi would come under domestic political stress they would want to use Pakistan as a punching bag to basically prop up their falling approval ratings and this is I think both sad and very unfortunate for the prospects of peace between India and Pakistan clearly you know if you look at what is happening in Kashmir I mean despite all the draconian measures that the government took despite all the restrictions that have been imposed, the arrests that continue the people of Kashmir still are as opposed to those measures that were taken unilaterally by the Indian government and even those political leaders who are essentially seen as more friendly to New Delhi government even they came out very clearly in opposing what has been done by the BJP government so really I think there is a need to bring back some trust and confidence in the relationship and we need to basically get to a point where at least we go to the status quo and T and then start it from there in terms of there being this enabling environment you know which allows both parties to engage whether the government in India has the will or the inclination to do that I am not sure and frankly I think this is where United States and the international community comes in I think it is important for India to see and hear it from other important countries also because their unilateralism is threatening peace security and stability and as President Grande mentioned in our opening remarks that you know this is one part of the world where you have three nuclear powers in close proximity to each other with active territorial disputes playing out you know that should not give too much comfort to anyone and that should only basically make parties even more keen to engage and seek resolutions through dialogue If I could just one quick follow on to that because it does raise a very important question which is the fact that the line of control between Pakistan and India between Jammu and Kashmir on the other side is perhaps the most dangerous place in the world you have two nuclear weapons states eyeball to eyeball with a history of conflicts and escalatory cycles that very nearly have not ended with the most recent one being the Pulwama Balakot crisis which to some observers looked like it was very near to spiraling entirely out of control is there any prospect for enhancing strategic stability between India and Pakistan and as you mentioned now with the injection perhaps of China separate and apart from dealing with these difficult and thorny political questions are there areas that strategic stability between India and Pakistan could be enhanced since it would presumably be in the interest of both countries to avoid the possibility of an escalatory cycle getting out of control and leading to an exchange of nuclear weapons I think again the basic framework or any conversation will have to start from some level of trust and confidence on both sides and the situation in Kashmir has initiated the environment to a point that there is frankly very little or no engagement with India and these are complex issues even under normal circumstances you have to have a certain level of trust to be able to engage in these conversations so which is really you know my and then I'm not saying this as much as Pakistan's ambassador as I'm saying this as a student of South Asia you know it's really and then I will get come back to the point that I made earlier which is really not a good sign and that is that Pakistan has somehow become integrated into the domestic political politics of India and BJP has used it today in a way we miss Prime Minister Atal Bihari Bajpayee for his investment in peace for his commitment to normalization you know but looking at what is there in line in the BJP hierarchy I frankly dread the day when we will start missing Prime Minister Modi so that's the trend and I think this is where United States and other countries need to basically pay more attention to the trajectory on which India is drifting and your positions should not be seen as an endorsement of the Indian positions on Pakistan and Kashmir because that only unfortunately emboldens them Thank you Ambassador I'd like to turn to our first question to the audience which is how would you answer Afghan concerns that Pakistan has not supported its elected government the government of Afghanistan and continues to give safe haven to the Taliban I think we have not won not to so many processes in place and conversation track with the Afghan government the APEPS process all the working groups we have always showed our keenness to engage with the Afghan government and sometimes our sincere efforts are not reciprocated the way they should be and unfortunately there is this tendency also to also keep blaming Pakistan for all the ills of Afghanistan which is not the case and Taliban in any case do not need sanctuaries in Pakistan because they are increasingly occupying space and territory in Afghanistan what we have made very clear is that we want Afghan parties to talk to each other and we are ready to help in every possible way so it's not about providing sanctuaries or providing support it's about our very clearly articulated position and a position that we are actually walking the talk also in terms of extending whatever support we can to the Afghan peace process and as I said in the beginning I really think that Pakistan and all other important countries that are in a position to contribute should contribute to that and havens is really a question that frankly has become irrelevant well I do have to push back a little bit on that Mr. Ambassador because I think as long as the Taliban are able to get the fighters are able to get medical attention in Pakistan the issue will continue to remain live in the eyes of Afghans so that in itself is just one small example but to turn to the next question what do you see as the role for neighboring countries to ensure regional security and stability as Afghanistan's situation deteriorates I think I've been trying to answer this question I think the best role that the neighbors can play is to essentially give the same message to all parties with whosoever they have any influence that the only way forward is to get to some common understanding and to not because that's where the challenge is you know if and that's why I say and I would say it again that your best counter terrorism investment is to invest in the peace process because if the peace process unravels we will go back to the old scenario where you will have militias will countries will start to hedge also and that is going to be a recipe for disaster and we have seen that film play in the past also and Pakistan has suffered tremendously on account of that so at least I cannot speak for other countries I can definitely speak for Pakistan and I can say this very clearly and very loudly in this city that we want to work and support in every possible way that we can the peace process and I personally agree with you profoundly that the regional dimension is hugely important right now and really needs to be addressed we have an economic question here so Pakistan needs sustained cash inflows including at least three billion under the dollars under the current IMF program I think that's the next tranche that's under discussion so what can Pakistan do to ensure that foreign flow requirements shift from IMF bailouts as it's characterized by this question and towards more sustainable foreign direct investment led inflows ideally we would want this IMF facility to be the last facility that we have to ask for or we have to request and we really had to resort to this and we have already received close to around two billion dollars and we are still in the program and we expect and the idea really is that the IMF support and another support from the international financial institutions helped us to get through that economic crisis that the government had inherited and through those stringent and tough reform measures you know I think we moved from that crisis phase to the stabilization phase and in that obviously the support that we got from IMF and other institutions was absolutely critical but as I said in the beginning the idea really is to create conditions that would attract investments in Pakistan and I think by COVID was another unforeseen challenge not just for Pakistan for any country we did reasonably well I would say you know during 19 we had what 0.5 you know the economy contracted just by about half a percent this year we have grown and the next year production is that we will go to 3.9 percent so really I think the focus on enhancing agricultural and industrial productivity focus on creating conditions that would allow us to increase our exports also using Pakistan's connectivity potential and using Pakistan as a manufacturing hub by attracting investments so we have these special economic zones that we are working on and that's where we would like to engage with the United States because those conversations are already taking place as we speak in terms of the elements of engagement with the United States on the economic side and of that I think the export processing zones special economic zones and US companies coming in and investing in Pakistan is a high priority for us we have some questions here on Balochistan which of course has been much in the news the Prime Minister was in Gwadar recently and you noted that in your remarks that the government wants to strengthen Pakistan internally but there's unequal development particularly in Balochistan that's one question and the Prime Minister has said that he's willing to reach out to Baloch insurgents why now and what does the government hope to gain from this outreach I think what it is very peace internally is an essential prerequisite to unleash our economic potential and Balochistan is you know underdeveloped and the lack of stability and the security situation further limits government's ability to undertake development and other economic activities Balochistan has huge potential in terms of the special economic zones that we have established with the commissioning of the Gwadar port and the building of infrastructure there and to be able to basically harness that potential optimally I think what Prime Minister said was that we are ready to engage with whosoever is interested in talking and giving up violence you know because in certain cases you know there are these individuals who are either being abused or misled by some element so if engagement can lead to a more stable Balochistan I think any government would want to do that there's a question on Kashmir and the essence of it is would Pakistan relax its claims to Kashmir to facilitate a settlement I it's not for any this is a generational thing there and it's not just Pakistan I think through the UN Security Council resolutions the entire international community has promised the Kashmiris to intervene and to give them their right of self-determination so it's really not for Pakistan to give up something that is not ours this is a promise that the international community made and this is a promise that was made to the people of Kashmir and at the end of the day that choice will have to be exercised which way they exercise that choice it is up to them but I think they deserve to be given that right which was promised to them and has been outstanding now for over 70 years Okay we have one more question could could you talk a bit more about reforms being undertaken to attract investment and how can US companies presumably compete with the Pakistan-China free trade agreement I I think the size of the pie is large enough and I have been very clear and categorical to our friends here in in terms of offering special economic zones in terms of offering industry specific zones in terms of offering sector specific zones where all the privileges that are being accorded or given to other special economic zones will be equally granted and not just that as I said also in the beginning that we feel that at least in our part of the world there is this space available for both US and China to coexist and we clearly see enormous potential and this is something that even today under CPAC most of the heavy equipment being used is of Japanese make it is Kumatsu and most of the generators being used are general electric so why can't we create a complementarity if we can I know it sounds ambitious but it definitely is doable in in terms of the the size of our market the connectivity potential but most importantly a master most importantly I know securing peace in Afghanistan is an important priority here in Washington the your withdrawal has at least for now made the so-called military force element out of it has taken that element out of equation so what is left is the assistance leverage the recognition legitimacy leverage and trade and investment leverage and then frankly no matter what kind of agreement you come up with and no matter what kind of agreement the Afghan party sign if you will not help them transition from a war centered economy to a normal economy long term sustainable peace in Afghanistan will remain a pipe dream and I think that gives us one additional reason because the conflict in Afghanistan apart from how it has negatively impacted Pakistan over the years has also undermined our growth potential in terms of allowing us to build our relationship across dissentulation countries you know and peace in Afghanistan and the connectivity potential and I think that's where your companies can really take advantage of the opportunities and even I give you one more example we imported close to one billion over one billion dollars of soya bean and cotton from United States as an input for value addition in Pakistan we have a free trade agreement with China your companies can basically create those win-win collaboration where you add value and use Pakistan as a manufacturing hub for distribution in the wider region and that should be a good reason enough for your companies to come and invest in Pakistan very good Ambassador thank you very much for joining us today you've been very generous with your time and you've given us a very comprehensive tour d'horizon of the US-Pakistan relationship and all its complexity so I'd like to on behalf of USIP thank you again and thank the audience for their participation thank you thank you master lovely being here and enjoyed our conversation today thank you