 Imagine an evolutionary hierarchy, starting with the very simplest thing that can possibly be imagined. Something perhaps mathematical, something geometric, but really simple. A simple code and it gets more and more complex in its emergent behavior and up and up and up and up and then at one point it gets to such high levels of complexity but all built with the same underline code that it actually is complex enough to hold as the substrate the code itself. And then you take this linear hierarchy that's ranked from simple to complex all the way up to source and you just wrap it into a circle where like the oral boros, the simplest part, the code is embedded within the mind of the most complex part, the emergent Godhead of source. And in this sense, it is logically consistent all the way through. Boom, what's up everyone, welcome to Simulation, I'm your host Alan Sokian. We are on site in the beautiful Topanga, California. We are now going to be talking about grand unification theory. We have Klee Irwin joining us on the show. Hi Klee. Hi. Good to be here. Thank you for coming on for round two. I can't believe round one was almost a year and a half ago. It was like episode nine, this is over episode 500 now. You've been busy now. We've been busy interviewing like at least a person a day, so many diverse leaders to talk to around the world and inspire other people to build the future. Klee's the first episode with Klee was just jam packed with understanding your journey, understanding quantum gravity research and what exactly you're working on here. This grand unification theory, a lot about consciousness and the cosmos as well. We're going to be unpacking that in even more depth and nuance after another year and a half of working on our own projects and building up our own spiritual avatars and coming back for the second round. For those who don't know Klee's background, Klee Irwin is a global leader in grand unification theory piecing together space time with Quantum Mechanics. He's the founder of Quantum Gravity Research Institute and you can find the link in the bio below to quantumgravityresearch.org. All right, Klee, let's start things off by talking about source. We come from the same source. Tell us about your relationship with that. Well, I have this view of what source is that's, I call the Ouroboros model and it's an idea that says, imagine if God or the collective consciousness of the universe self actualized itself, created itself. And so what we think is that there is a very simple primordial space time code. It's abstract. So it's made of information and information has to have a substrate, whether it's the atoms in your memory, but if we say that atoms are information, then information needs a substrate. So one substrate for information is a mind, but nobody knows really what a mind is because no one can define consciousness in a way that academics can agree on with the consensus. But we do know mind exists, right? Because we are pretty sure we're conscious. We just don't know how it comes to be, even a biological mind. Not sure how it emerges from the laws of physics. But what if this were possible that the universe is evolutionary in nature, where simple things self organize into more complex systems, which self organize yet again into ever more complex systems until one day a system becomes mind like and like a human. And it just keeps going from there. And then the mind like entities can begin self organizing. But what if the ultimate level of the self organization is so vast at some level that it is a mind like thing capable of holding within its mind a very simple primitive space time code, which is just purely abstract. And then it plays that code to create itself. Now people have a problem with this if they're stuck in the paradigm of linear causality where A causes B, which causes C. But what if A could cause B, which caused C, which caused A, which caused B, which caused C, and so on. So that's the Auroboros concept where the code, the simplest thing lives within the mind of God or the collective consciousness and the collective consciousness emerges from the code just as our consciousness has, but way beyond us. So if such a thing existed, I mean, in physics and science, we have to take things on with a form of faith. So the faith is all right, this, this theory seems to look more probable than this theory. But we still call it a theory always because we're not admitting that it's absolutely true. We're saying it's probably true, but you can have spiritual theories as well, that you use your mind and you say, well, this is probably true, right? So if you, if you can imagine that such a thing could be true, maybe it is, and then maybe you could play around with it by trying to tap into it. You wouldn't know exactly how you'd have to sort of freestyle it, you know, or you could follow the freestylings of other people, right, teachers, Jesus, Buddha, right? But maybe there's no one true and only freestyle. Maybe there's a million and one ways to access, to resonate with this flow, this source, this God, this collective consciousness or spirit. That's how I look at it. And so I, I try, I play around, I try different things, I, I manipulate the chemicals in my body through what I eat and how I exercise, how my hormones change my body. Play around with that. Sometimes I'll find a sweet spot where I feel more tuned in. I've tried plant medicines. You know, I've tried meditating, you know, breath work, float tanks. And so each person finds their own way to tap into this source. And when you tap in and you kind of get the feel for it, it seems that there's no limit to how deeply and profoundly you can tap in. But you got to start, you got to tap in to start. All right. When we take our first fall from grace from source, the first, the sort of first principle, this first urge is to be like, how do I divinely commune back with, with source? And there's an infinite amount of ways to do that. And so then we have a process of then self-work that we have to do in order to figure out how we clear our channels and make it easier for us to go and commune with source, what works best for us. And then also there's this Ouroboros component to source of how you see it. So we have this, this, this deployment of creation, which has these, in a sense these very more simple lines of code. And then as it complexity evolves and it evolves more and it keeps evolving, keeps evolving. The minds evolve and the minds evolve like a massive neural network, a massive array of minds that are then doing things like realizing that they came from source. Then those minds also do the full circle. They make source A to B to C to A. Is that? And what are we doing when the minds become complex enough that they themselves make source and then the cycle happens? What is that? So taking a lot of what you said, I see that my viewpoint is that God or source cannot exist without creation existing because it emerges through creation. That is the neural network, right? The topological substrate for source is all, is the everything and it is the complexity that comes from the everything. So for example, a human being with its incredible ability for abstract thought, which can cause problems or create beauty, that is very complex as a complex system. And then the tribal global emergent constructs of economies, belief systems, languages, the internet, a giant neural network of information, all of these things are super organisms that are even yet more complex than an individual human. And so it's kind of like the aboriginals, this idea of a great dream within the great mind of a great dreamer and all of the separate storylines and individuals and human lives are subplots or sub-stories, sub-programs within this global program. But in this story, the Ouroboros philosophy, each sub-program is contributing to the evolution and the expansion of the collective consciousness of source at all times in everything that it does. We are all different colored paints, different paint brushes making different paint strokes and different size of strokes or different instruments playing different notes in the collective symphony of creation. And then when this topological neural network, which we'll get to in a bit, when this gets complex enough, it then makes a C goes to A and we make another creation. Well, you have to resist the temptation of linear causality, right? Because in that sentence, there existed linear causality. Okay, teach me. So if A caused B, caused C, caused A, caused B, caused C, well, what caused what first? Okay. There is no first. What number is first? There is no first. What number is first on the clock? Three o'clock, four o'clock. Three o'clock, four o'clock. Four o'clock first. Okay. Well, just because there is no first doesn't mean there is not a rank, okay? What was more complex in consciousness? You or some descendant that existed, some predecessor of yours that existed, you know, three billion years ago, a more primitive organism that's right in your evolutionary family tree. Well, you are. And going forward in time, there can be beings that exist now in Einstein's space time, at least where the future past and present all exist in the same object. And so we're just one point on this evolutionary, imagine an evolutionary hierarchy starting with the very simplest thing that can possibly be imagined. Something perhaps mathematical, something geometric, but really simple, a simple code. And it gets more and more complex in its emergent behavior and up and up and then at one point, it gets to such high levels of complexity, but all built with the same underlying code that it actually is complex enough to hold as the substrate, the code itself. And then you take this linear hierarchy that's ranked from simple to complex all the way up to source, and you just wrap it into a circle where like the Ouroboros, the simplest part, the code is embedded within the mind of the most complex part, the emergent Godhead of source. And in this sense, it is logically consistent all the way through where a child who, you know, children love to ask questions to priests and physicists, where inevitably each will say, child, that is a question I cannot answer, right? But in this viewpoint, you can stop at any point on the circle of the Ouroboros and say, well, where did that emerge from, right? We can say, well, where did DNA emerge from? And we can actually tell some stories about that through science. Yes. And we can say, well, where would our super smart lineage, right, come from those people after us? And we say, well, us, obviously, right, where so and what and what emerges from them and so on. And so that's that's kind of trying to connect as best I can to what you said. Yeah, that was a great visual of the this sort of hierarchical from simplicity all the way up to complexity and linearly and then wrapping that around for the Ouroboros. That was great. And then also just the question then for, I guess, for us, and I think for a lot of people that may be watching would be something along the lines of, well, then when we go back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back to our source. Well, then where did that source come from? How many times has this cycle happened? Is it all just happening and how do we know that? Are we just OK with it? Just being as is and just being is that about it? There was there was a movie with Ethan Hawke called Predestination and in the movie Predestination, he was his he was his father's son and his son's father and he was his son's. It was this bizarre triangle. But the thing about this movie is that you can watch it over and over and over and you cannot find a logical inconsistency because in the film they explain exactly how it makes sense that he's his his father's father, right, and how his son is his father. And yet at the same time his son is his son. Now, I'm not going to try to explain that because it's a mind bending movie. But again, your question asks, well, what created source? Right. Your real question was about are there cycles? And I think, yeah, there could be cycles. I have an intuition there are cycles. But even if there weren't cycles, you can still take one cycle and you can say, where did God emerge? Well, God emerged in the same way that you emerged from simple things. OK, fine. Then where does the simplest thing at the beginning of it all emerge from? Where does it live? Well, it lives within the mind of God. And because this is one form of circular reasoning that is not problematic. Generally, circular reasoning is a is a problem. This is actually brutally consistent, logically, right? But it does require the rejection of linear causality where because you can accept that the code could be in the mind of God, right? That's not a problem. And you can even accept that the mind of God can emerge from a code because you're kind of Godlike compared to a grain of salt. Right. And it's really quite remarkable that you're here asking me these questions. This is very heady stuff, right? And so if you just take remarkableness, many orders of magnitude beyond you and your amazingness, that a bunch of quarks and electrons self-organized into Alan-ness and take it further. And then when you get far enough to where you can accept that it is a complex enough entity to hold an origin code, a genesis code, then you have to ask yourself, well, wait a minute, why couldn't the great dreamer have dreamed itself through this code of theoretic evolutionary buildup and you can't come up with a reason? Why not? Like there'll be no logical deal killer. OK. Yeah. And so the maybe a main principle for those that are attempting to do their best, including myself and so many others, are just about just really trying to embody this style of wisdom is both, of course, just trying to divinely commune ourselves with source, but also the notion of this non-linearity and living non-linearly. Yes. Living circularly or a borosy, this style. Yeah. And living that way. How to tap into that. So I go to Hana a lot in Hawaii because there's a lot of lot of subtle energy, let's call it. That's very palpable for me there. And I can get healthy, quick there, or I can get, you know, connections, non-local downloads and ideas there. And I really tapped in a few months ago there to a story that works for me, that I finally get it. And it was very otherworldly in terms of how it was shown to me. It just felt like it was some kind of, it felt spiritual, OK, like something giving me, you know, insight. So here's what it was. Think about this word centering to center yourself. So in chakra theory, we have these seven primary chakras and it's really one in the middle, three up and three down. So the one in the middle is kind of in the middle. So it's special in that regard. And the idea in those meditations that seek to kind of integrate you and just make you into a nice whole flow, it's about finding this, you know, imagining this resonance between these energetic centers. Right. So this is one story and thought and theory. But take something like that and combine it with time. OK, so follow that idea. Say I'm going to literally kind of imagine myself in my heart, like maybe touch your chest and just kind of be like, OK, I'm just kind of feeling a little emotional in my heart, right, whatever it feels. And then just try to go down and feel the rest of your body down to your feet and up to your head. And then go further and try to just go out and picture from the top, you know, the center of the sun and the center of the Milky Way and just get really connected and just kind of vaguely connect to the whole universe. But as you go bigger and bigger, so we're in a size thing now. We're in geometry and then go down the other way and imagine, you know, connecting to the center of the earth and then connecting to small things, you know, like molecules and the cells in our body cells in your body. Yeah, start there, cells, then molecules, then atoms, you know, then whatever you think, corks and electrons are. And just try to do this big to small, but be in the middle. You're going really big, like the galaxy. And then you're going really small and you and you're going down to the center of the earth and you're going up and then add in time and you'll and you'll complete it. So now imagine yourself last year and just try to tune in to the dude. You from last year go back as far as you can go. And where you and where you stop remembering, like when you get to yourself at nine years old, make it up. It's better to make it up because that's an anchor to connecting to the non-local information. Just imagine yourself at nine. Just be like, I imagine myself at nine. I'm connecting to the little guy, right? And and in going all the way back to your birth, just kind of decide that you're accepting every event. Yes. You know, the asshole in school who is mean or the girl who rejected you or this person who hurt you. You know, take the good, the bad and just say, I love it all because it was a ride and it led me to where I am now. It's been interesting, you know, and then and then go the other way. Now, the other way, it's harder to remember. It's easier to remember the past than the future. But remember, they both exist. So then say, well, I'm going to hook up with myself in a year and just be like, hey, dude, what's up? I hope you're still alive physically. I hope you're still alive, you know, and and connect and connect and then and then shoot it out further from both directions. Go beyond yourself at birth and try to connect to anything you want to imagine all the way back to the Big Bang. Or you can do this as slow or as fast as you want. However much detail point is just to feel it and then go out really far in time. So you're going backwards in time to the Big Bang and it comes up and spans through your life like a deck of playing cards and it gets here to the now. That's again, that's the center and that's the center of time for you. The now and then go up all the way to this unimaginable, emergent, conscious universe that is of God like, you know, consciousness. And then picture as a metaphor. The largest living thing known in the universe, which is California, seek help. These things root down into rocks at the bottom of the Pacific on the shore and they grow up and up and up and up until they get to this big plume on the surface of the ocean. They are the tallest thing on the planet a mile. They can be perhaps that tall. I don't know the exact. I only know they're the tallest thing. But the ocean because of the, you know, the tides from the moon and the wind on the surface, it's always waving, which makes the water down below it wave and this rubbery kelp it waves. And then it has these big floppy leaves along the way that then just harmoniously flow and try to envision this stack of playing cards. There's a card which is Alan at age one year old and one minute and one second and just boom, that's there. And then another. And then there's this giant stack of playing cards as tall as the Empire State Building of every moment of your life. But it waves that you're totally in love with every good, bad. Yeah. And it has a consciousness in this story, right? This is all story science of story. Spiritualism is story, right? So in this story, allow the playing card deck to wave and unduly. And so this kelp represents the time domain. And it has an intelligence. I am proposing that that pattern can be encoded over time. For example, if you've seen a laser show at a laser, like a beautiful laser show at a concert or a laser in, they can have an image of a little girl chasing a video of a little girl chasing a butterfly and then her father is running from the other direction, all in this laser show picture. But if you freeze it in one moment, you find out the truth, which is that there was only one tiny dot with the laser on it at that one moment. Only that. And only by moving it fast over time in a strategic way, does it give you this information over time of the little girl. And so imagine that there is information like an Uber consciousness or super consciousness that flows through your entire life from birth all the way through, way past where you're at now. And just let's cap it off there and say, is it more likely that the meta consciousness that flows through every moment of Alan's life could perhaps be more conscious than the momentary consciousness in this two seconds of Alan's mind and his consciousness now. So we pretend, yes. OK. And then we go out even further. And so the kelp versus the slice of a card of moment exactly the whole kelp versus a slice of the kelp. Yeah. And so by taking that out through space from the smallest to the largest and the most complex to the least complex and through time from the Big Bang to some Omega point, that is my idea of source. And because it waves, I have this vision that it waves. Tune into the wave and you won't know how to do it by strict instructions because science hasn't figured out the exact mathematics of that particular wave. So you've got to do it with kind of intuitive, you know, autonomic purposes, starting with intention. You just say, I want, hey, wave, if you're supposedly intelligent, you know, maybe you are. Help me to tune into you, dude. Like help me to tune in and you can get some help out of all the guided meditations and whatnot that I've had the chance to sit through, like so many more people should be using that one. Kelp, man, you can never go wrong with kelp. And and also this this practice of that was such a good way for people at home, wherever you're watching, listening from, do that practice of tuning in to the body and then going from the body to the macro, going from to the micro and then also doing your whole deck of cards in the past for deck of cards forward. Yeah, imagine yourself as that kelp and then just tapping into that source waves that's that is happening. Yeah, that's really good. This is why Cleese a synthesis. And like you can tell there's one has to take a lot of of the most critical questions in life, like the most pressing questions about life and study them for a long time. And then piece together a really good story to be able to make this make sense. That's so good. If we continue at this pace, we're going to talk for seven hours. So I do want to hit a couple of these other thoughts before we get to the emergence theory. One of them is that is there is this something that you also. Embodied as truth, this notion that so many indigenous people around the world are saying that our disconnection from nature, from sources, the reason why we have so many of the issues in our world. Yeah, I am I'm into this idea called a strange attractor. And so in emergence theory, which is what me and my colleagues work on. The universe is code theoretic, which is probably a sterile word code for language, right, because music is language, poetry is language, but C plus plus is language too. So if reality is based on a code, perhaps since reality appears to be geometric, perhaps it can be a geometric code or language. And all languages are codes traffic in meaning, right? For example, if you want to get high, a high paid job in Silicon Valley, you have to figure out how to use a given code to write a compression algorithm with fewer lines of code because that'll that'll make the company money. And in poetry, the name of the game is to use double entendre's and really elegant compact usages of words, in other words, to pack maximum meaning within a given life's, you know, expression of code. And so I don't know of many codes that don't work like that. Even DNA is incredibly compact and efficient. And so if it is meaning that the universe is trying to maximize, then it would make sense that things get more complex. Like the physicists tell us, cosmologists would tell us that shortly after the Big Bang, there were no atoms. There was something called a cork gluon plasma. And it was very boring and very homogenous. So if you knew the cork gluon plasma density at one section, you knew the rest. You don't need to know anymore. And then things began to self-organize. And we arrived after that at the early hydrogen universe. Now it's more organized because now the corks and, you know, the fundamental subatomic elements have self-organized. And then we self-organized into an 81 staple atom universe. So 81 letters, so to speak. Then those began self-organizing and so on and so on until we have a universe today with immeasurably higher complexity with biospheres and then molecules that can encode pedabytes of information such as DNA. And so when important self-organizing events exist in the future, the way that the code works is where statistically very much the way that the code works is where statistically drawn to it the way a strange attractor in a chaotic system, which is a little accidental kernel of order and complexity within an ocean of chaos and noise. And the strange attractor begins orchestrating and coaxing the rest of the system to become more organized, to attract toward its organization. So imagine that strange attractors are high impact informational events of complexity, important events like a transcendent moment for a species like the species landing on the moon or discovering the ultimate theory of everything, something important. They would tend to draw. So I think indigenous people, but many things draw in this way. And that's this idea of the kelp where we think that the flow over time in this deck of playing cards is so that the events that happened here when you were 15 years old happened just right so that the events could unfold to more complexity and meaning when you're 25 years old. And you can't see that until later. So I think indigenous people could tap into this flow and attach that to metaphors that helped them, whatever the stories are, and that that gets culturally embedded and into the very behavior of the group. And it even gets into genetic expression according to modern genetics theory where our traumas and the things that happened to us collectively get encoded or expressed genetically. So tapping in is, again, what indigenous people have been doing, tapping into source is much more natural and coherent with the future evolution of what the global system is over time is trying to emerge. But humans, because of our powerful intellect and ability for abstract thought, for example, I could worry about whether I paid enough taxes last year and whether I'm going to go bankrupt as a result and my daughter is going to become a pole dancer because I can't send her to college. These stories, just hilarious stories, tragic stories. And so what runs the world today, this materialistic, generally atheistic paradigm prioritizing money and greed all based on the conversion of trapped solar energy to fuel our society, right? Through fossil fuels, this whole thing is completely a house of cards. They were almost at the limit of its purpose. And I actually think it has served a purpose. For example, without that having happened, that whole paradigm, we wouldn't be able to communicate with your followers right now. Exactly. It led to this. But it served its purpose and we need to now learn something from our ancestors who were more tapped in. We don't have to take all their stories. We can pick and choose from the stories. But the fundamental practice that they were doing was tapping into the flow. They were tapped into the kelp wave. Yeah. And then it's as though then they are saying that, hey, tap into the kelp wave more so that we can solve some of the problems that if not all of the problems that we have going on in our world. And it's also great to hear you talking about the teleology of the species. Do you think that that's kind of the purpose of the grand human experiment is to maximize meaning? Is that that's the purpose of source? Yeah. Maximize creativity? I personally have a growing eerie suspicion that humans may historically be playing an important part in the evolution of the universe. Because my Oroboros viewpoint requires a level of complexity of where we're at now. At some point in the evolution, you have to have some animal that is capable of getting off the planet and creating a doubling algorithm to spread its high form of complex systems, which is itself and its technology and its philosophies. And then if that species, if that genie gets out of the bottle, it can double. Doubling algorithms can just sneak up on you. I think we talked about that before. In the first episode, Clee made it really clear that we are a massive anomaly. Right. And that's why we may be, because once you do go and do the doubling, get out into the cosmos, you take over the cosmos. Right. So the argument that we are not the first is that we've discovered that life can exist on Earth in very inhospitable places. Sulfuric acid at very high temperatures and very cold. And we've also discovered in recent years that there seem to be planets orbiting a large number of suns and stars. And we also know logically that those planets that are at the right distances are going to have water. So it would be irrational to even the moons in our own Enceladus. That's right. So however, what is the argument on the other side that humans may be the first form of ultra-high consciousness capable of populating the rest of the universe with consciousness, such that this consciousness can network and begin growing inwards and envelop everything as a collective consciousness. So the teleology is for us to be able to propagate out meaning. Widespread meaning. Yes. Consciousness is meaning. Yes. So to be able to be source experiencing itself, the more source that experiences itself is the purpose. Right. And but the other side of the argument, just by way of review, but very quickly, is that evolutionary biology abhors what humans have become. It generally snuffs animals out that become 20% faster, smarter, or stronger than where it is in its predator prey niche. But humans got away with that, and evolutionary biology was not able yet to snuff us out. And if we learn to use our high consciousness to get along with evolutionary biology, which is concerned about symbiosis across the whole biosphere, then that'll be good. Or if we continue being stupid about it and we get off planet, then our descendants can go out. But I do have this, and then we also haven't heard any other species so far manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum as we looked around in the SETI program. So there's arguments for both sides. I've thought about it a lot. My intuition is that we may turn out, it wouldn't be arrogant to say, it would just be a guess, to say, well, there's no good reason why we couldn't be the first. And if so, our responsibility may be great. Massive. Massive. The most important thing to preserve it, propagate it out, more meaning, more creativity, more experience. Klee, is this rock life, the human experiment on this specific rock we're talking about, the purpose of it? Is there, are we acting as just vessels, channels, transducers for higher level source messaging to come through us and ideate and create itself in the physical world that we live in? And what is that? What is this that comes through us if so? What is it? And is there good and evil? And where do those come from? And then how do these play out like a big board game on the planet? So I think that with this code theoretic view of reality, that reality is a language expressing, one of the foundational rule in a code is that you must have free will. That is the syntactical freedom of the code, nothing can strictly determine it, can't determine how it's going to play out. And so what if free will is actually necessary to even define consciousness? What is my consciousness right now in this moment? I'm not sure, but I know that it has something to do with the concatenation of thoughts that I choose to think about and then the order within that concatenation is this thought, you know, like I wonder what it's going to be for dinner tonight with all the whole package. And so I think that meaning is the goal of the universe and that in order to recognize meaning, you need consciousness. In order to define consciousness, free will has to be part of it. It's very almost trivially clear. And so nothing verses it for all to just be predetermined and just playing itself out, which wouldn't be as much of a fun creation. Right. And so are we truly controlled by anything? And why would there be good and evil? So does good and evil have anything to do with enlightenment? No. Why? What is enlightenment? Enlightenment is the dissolution of Maya, ignorance, illusion and delusion. But I don't need to choose to serve others and have a life exemplifying love in order to have awareness, right? One can rise from the Maya and have exceptional understanding and by their own free will still choose to be primarily of service to self. And if that's reasonable, right, then ahead of us in our descendant lineage we would have advanced consciousnesses that are selfish and serve themselves. And we would have other advanced consciousnesses that specialize in love and service to others. Why? Because that's what they chose. It's their own reasons. It doesn't matter why. It's just what they chose. So are they looking back at our kindergarten, planet earth and going like, hey guys, you're almost keep going? They're in a feedback loop so that nothing exists without the playing card. You're constantly influenced by yourself when you are 15 and you are influenced by yourself when you are 45. And so one area of the evolution can seek to over-dominate the other side. Like if you in your selfish moment right now decide to commit suicide, well then you've killed some possibility of yourself existing tomorrow. Right? Maybe yourself in a month didn't want to do that. Had plans, right, if it could have existed. And so perhaps there can be advanced consciousnesses that are in some sense forward in time from us but now like in the movie Arrival they live across time. Their consciousness is defined as not being in one moment at a time. And let's say they're jerks from our perspective of how we value love and service and they want to manipulate things in the world today to keep it selfish into the paradigm of fear because that better establishes their reality at least probabilistically in the future. But if everything were to go all mushy gushy love peace and chicken grease let's hold hands kumbaya the kind of world I want to see then the probability for a lot of those being very powerful in the future is more limited or there are fewer of them. So if I were them, if I were the service to self advanced potentialities in the future or realities in the future I would probably try to get Trump re-elected and I would create a lot of fear going on. That would help create the maya and the distraction to keep people in darkness longer because when you do wake up and become enlightened the truth is you tend to be more loving because fear pretty much goes away even though it's technically possible that you can still be enlightened and choose selfishness and so I think that they would have self-preserving interest to keep the world in a state of fear and maya and materialism for as long as possible and other guys would have a similar interest to do the opposite maybe not so much to preserve themselves but because they have achieved pure states of service to others and so they're doing it out of service so they help us and we're not controlled by any of them we just choose who to be influenced by who to collaborate with you said in the first time that we talked together creativity is synthesizing combinatorics I really like that a lot you are a synthesis yourself you can take and combine what was it 16 people around the table 22 billion arrangements 22 billion arrangements of 16 people around the table so that gives you an idea of how many if you can combine different disparate fields into new ideas you can really rocket the edge of knowledge forward let's talk emergence theory so what's been going on the last year and a half so we have space time we have quantum mechanics we're like how do these things work together and this has been the grand dilemma of the last was it a hundred? about a hundred years alright and you guys are like okay so there's an idea of pixelation at this most people are familiar with atoms and you break down the atom into at least the protons and neutrons and the nucleus down into quarks but electrons are not broken down into quarks quarks and electrons in the current world view are dimensionless points called point particles and they're fundamental particles so they are not in modern physics the current theory is that they're not built of anything else they are primordial okay they are not built of anything else yet the Planck volume still makes up quarks and makes up electrons well the Planck volume is is not assumed with the fundamental particle view the Planck volume is a conjecture it's a conjecture that comes through deductive logic using quantum mechanics so if you just start using quantum mechanics then you realize because of the equations that a length because quantum mechanics at least the Copenhagen interpretation says something doesn't exist unless it's observed alright and so if you follow all that logic then you get to this point where you cannot have a length shorter than some length a volume less than some volume that's shorter than the Planck time so the Planck volume the Planck length and the Planck time so I can try to simplify the quest the importance of the quest so the importance of the quest is that right now the world is at an unprecedented like there's no historical precedence we don't really know what's going to happen all we know is that technology is exponentially increasing the population is growing and global warming is accelerating and along with a lot of other issues right but so we don't really know what's going to happen we do know that oftentimes understanding nature better helps for example when we discovered some equations on a blackboard in Denmark it was the quantum mechanics equations and those equations led to the internet you cannot have the internet you cannot have digital computers without having first discovered the equations of quantum mechanics which is something about nature and then the internet helps people right there's a lot of good and freedom of information you know just the ability it's hard for a despot or a controller of information to control information like they could in the good old days when there was only you know the national broadcast networks and a few local newspapers in each city you could control things easier and even easier earlier in time right so what good might come if we get the whole enchilada the whole theory of everything and so what is the theory of everything so we have a theory of space and time I mean if you think about everything excluding emergent things like consciousness socio-economics and what not chemistry right those are all emergent but if you go down to the fundamental things you have you have particles fundamental particles not atoms those are not fundamental so you have these quarks and electrons and neutrinos right photons fundamental particles and then they play out they're self-organizing and playing out in this stuff called space and time so the theory of space and time is general relativity and it was weird because it tells us that the past continues to exist and the future exists that was weird because before 1905 when special relativity came out before that scientists thought that the future does not exist and the past also does not exist and that the only thing that exists is the continually moving now so that was interesting and then we discovered something even more weird than that in quantum mechanics which is the realization that reality is not like the Newtonian clockwork universe where if you knew in precise detail the starting condition of something you could predict every time what's going to happen like dominoes like if you could see at that level of detail turned out that was false and that there's this bizarre almost just just misty world of probabilities and that it's about information so quantum mechanics at a very deep level is about the information that one can know about a physical system through observation or measurement and unlike all of the other theories such as electromagnetism or general relativity quantum mechanics is the odd guy it's the anomaly it's a theory that doesn't come exactly with a model right that you can understand why statistics like there's thermodynamic statistics but those statistics from thermodynamics come from this build up of a full set of machinery in the model quantum mechanics is different we got all this data from experiments that was the weird wonky data where things are going are behaving not like the classical universe you just amass that data and then this genius guy Werner Heisenberg realizes that it matches up with some math class that he took in university and he laid down his version of quantum mechanics and then a few years later Schrödinger laid down his version and they were found to be the same but it's really bizarre because nobody understands what the hell is causing these statistics it's kind of like it's kind of like a car and you're looking at the hood you have no idea what's under the hood with this one theory but every other theory we know what's under the hood and so you got the theory quantum mechanics that's very powerful and led to the internet but that we don't really understand what it means Richard Feynman said nobody understands what quantum mechanics means he said perfectly he said no one understands quantum mechanics and he meant under the hood and then this theory of space time and to make it worse the theory of space time general relativity clearly and vehemently says that quantum mechanics is wrong certain axioms and fundamental precepts and that's a problem because quantum mechanics seems to at least be partly true because it creates this technology and it matches up with experiments and then quantum mechanics strictly says that general relativity is wrong so they imply one another wrong so clearly there's a problem we don't understand quantum mechanics and we don't understand why these theories are saying one another are incorrect now to combine the theories modern people outside of our group have decided that space and time may be pixelated and what we do here at quantum gravity research is the way we pixelate space time so if it's pixelated then the particles would be patterns perturbations or ripples within this pixelated pattern so you start with space time as the fundamental thing and then the ripples are the different types of particles and then they interact so we pixelate it in a logical way the large hadron collider in Geneva, Switzerland they collide particles together they've done the same thing at earlier particle colliders in the United States this data very very expensive to acquire data and that led to this extension or expansion of quantum mechanics combined with this particle accelerator data which is called the standard model of particle physics it's the most powerful theory that mankind has physics theory and it explains quirk interactions how one particle will become another and it turns out the way that everything becomes something else and interacts maps to this algebra which is called a lee algebra so it's a these are higher dimensional lee algebras and those algebras are vector algebras and so they're associated with crystals or lattices but just higher dimensional it's like a checkerboard but in higher dimensional space and then what we do is we transform that lattice by projective geometry to a lower dimension such as 3d and we get a mathematical object called a quasi crystal and a quasi crystal is different than a crystal in so far as it being a language a language is pretty simple to define it's a finite set of objects like a checkerboard that squares black squares and red squares the second thing is that it has to have strict rules on how you can arrange the objects checkerboard has strict rules you have to go red black red black right and you gotta do it you know eight across well the third component of a language is that there must be syntactical freedom within the rules such that you have a little wiggle room that's not what a checkerboard is but english is that it's against the law for me to say the dog ran cat but I do not have to say the dog ran fast so you have to follow the rules and I also can't introduce a new word that doesn't even exist in the language I can't say the dog ran thank you right against the law right we wouldn't be using english so a quasi crystal is a more mathematical code that has those three qualities and because it maps back to the higher dimensional lee algebra is it maps back to the most powerful unification theory we have which is unifying everything except for gravity but except for space and time but because the expression of the quasi crystal code itself is our space time background we get space time and the particle interactions all unifying under a dynamic animation if you will in this quasi crystalline space where all the interactions can be mapped right back up to the standard model of particle physics gauge symmetry equation so it's very promising and kind of rigorous okay so there's a way to take how the elementary particles are dynamically at play in this predictive pixelated existence that we're in and there's a way to to take and make it's a projection of the of them in we're projecting them into a higher or lower dimension lower dimensional quasi crystal okay which then that that then is the load that that is the then pixelation that we're talking about is the yeah quasi crystal yes it's like a lattice it's like a yeah we would call it a quasi lat quasi periodic lattice because it's not it's not periodic yeah it's like a lattice or a neural network a neural yeah okay but made of information so one would not it would be a question to say well wait a minute what are those little pixels made out of you can ask the question but the answer would be it's made of information made of information but one can ask what is the information made of okay and then one could say name any information that does not require a consciousness to leave the name what is it made of what's made of consciousness recognizing Klee yeah or you could say what it what are the if you zoom down below the corks and down into this plank scale abstract mathematical space of lines and angles and shapes what are those made of then one would say well they're actually the same thing that you would say if you picture a square in your mind right now it's a square I can see the 90 degree angles yes what's it made of what do you mean what it's made of it's in my mind it's made it's made of I don't know what it's made of it's made of my consciousness made of my consciousness because can't say it's made of the atoms of your mind can you so close to the cost quasi repetitive Chris how would you call it so it's a quasi lattice yeah because it doesn't repeat it's it's not periodic it's not periodic because in the quasi lattice is not periodic because it's different you particles are making it's because the projection projection of the crystal is irrational it's based on a golden ratio based angle and when you use that angle you collapse you collapse it down to this symmetry called h3 which is icosahedral symmetry and you have a very small set of fundamental shapes like letters like geometric letters and the way that those geometric shapes can be arranged is by strict rules but there's syntactical freedom within the rules so what you can do is you can arrange them one way set that to the side arrange them another way set that to the side and another way and then now you have an ordered set like a 35 millimeter film like the deck of playing cards with the uber the super consciousness flowing through it so the quasi lattice is is what makes up everything in the lowest dimensional level and then that is you can project that upwards to make standard the elementary particles you can recover it so that if you in a sense if you're looking at a shape like a cube made of sticks but it's a cube it's a wire frame cube if you look at it with one eye you're seeing something as flat as a national geographic photograph but your eye your brain has an algorithm that extrudes or unfolds that two dimensional shape into your knowledge of a three dimensional shape right? just like right now you're having this knowledge that a point on my nose is further in this way in three dimensional space than my ear but you really are at least through one eye seeing just a flat image so mathematically through trigonometry we can take the mathematics of the quasi-crystal animation where reality is playing out and map that to this hyper-dimensional crystal that's part of a Lie algebra that maps to the gauge symmetry equations of the standard model of particle physics that last part I'll just let you go with that last part as the bit there okay so the quasi lattice and then that maps to the algebra which is part of gauge symmetry which connects you to rigorous physics so that you can go beyond just hand-waving woo talk and you can lay down rigorous equations that unify spacetime and particle physics okay and then where's the team at with that? so we've been at it for ten years and I don't have an advanced college degree so I'm surprised that I found myself in this situation I'm an entrepreneur but I walked out of my building ten years ago and I never came back I've been back to that building twice in ten years so for ten years I've been working full time with PhD mathematicians and physicists to help me interpret and make rigorous these understandings that I have been getting and I get them just by thinking and visualizing and working really hard just reading thousands of papers you know, scientific papers arguing, debating talking about mathematics, just doing it but I feel like I have a cheat like an X factor like I may maybe I'm smart and creative but it's not enough to even if I were that's not enough to justify how we could be so lucky as to have stumbled upon the correct approach to unification physics and the X factor that I suspect is that I feel like sometimes the best description of why I can say guys we need to use quasi-crystal mathematics or we need or here is how this math works is it's almost as though it feels like I remember it but even that is not the best word it's a better word a better way to describe it is imagine that a percentage of your subconscious can be bi-located to a different time so you don't even know it sure does feel that way now if you were it would make you a little bit spaceier down here because let's say 20% of your subconscious has just been sequestered hijacked to be linked and be almost by remote viewing just bi-located and maybe it's something like that but whatever it is I can't if it turns out to be successful and change the world I won't be able to just take by saying oh yeah I got lucky or I'm really smart or creative I'll have to always be clear that I feel like it was a collaboration between people from the future and they may not be humanoid if they're not born here and they don't have our DNA but they don't have our exact coding of our type of DNA but it would make sense for the advanced beings of consciousness from the future that want to self-potentiate their view of a collaborative loving service to others cooperative universe they would try to look for willing teammates or collaborators in their ancestral tree who are just crazy enough have just enough lack of risk aversion whatever mental problems like I'm an ADD type of person I have a little bit of dyslexia so I rearrange things in a strange way to create synergistic moments for you to find the PhD mathematicians and physicists so everything is a setup in one way or another so when I think about well why did I spend time becoming an entrepreneur to make money well I can't do this without money because I'm not a one man show I have a team without these PhDs there's no way I could do this by myself and they're expensive so when you look back you kind of see this beautiful thing unfolding over many years where you can't see the purpose until you look back and then when you do look back you wonder well to what extent was it orchestrated and that also leads to what you were saying a little bit ago about the benevolence yeah from the future at play so so where's the team at okay so the way I would look at the timeline is that so that was 10 years ago when I left the business world and most of the 10 years has been this slow process of osmosis just gathering ideas becoming intuitively attracted to this or that math or these metaphors like simatics for example just as a metaphor a physical thing simatics gives me a lot of intuitions that I can use to say well there's aspects of these generalized phases at certain vibrations where at all the other vibrations it's just chaos in the sand so osmosis collection of ideas like a library of ideas and then more recently it all started coming together like it took 8 years to gather the puzzle pieces and then find them and now it's going to take a few years so we've been assembling them for the last 2 years but in the last few months it feels like one of those big jigsaw puzzles where the first 10% of the pieces are really slow to come together but the last 10% when 90% is done you're just like zing zing zing putting them all down fast so it's all starting to come together in an accelerated fashion right now so I'm pretty what does that mean for quantum gravity research to have the jigsaw pieces coming now fast like what does that look like for someone that's lay that's not, yeah well it means that it's becoming it's rapidly approaching a theory that will be rigorous so a lot of internet videos and a lot of papers out there published on the internet that have equations but that nobody in the physics community agrees or appreciates them because there's a lot of hand-waving in physics and mathematics not mathematics but in physics there's hand-waving where people plug numbers to make it work or they make conjectures that sound like they could be true but who knows mathematics is different, mathematics you get proofs and you're building it up by strict thing so what we want is a theory that doesn't have a bunch of hand-waving conjectures in it or plugs undeniably empirically true like the way a math equation is and one of the ways that we will get there is with advanced computer simulation because it is a code, it's a geometric code we can simulate it in supercomputers and so we're moving into that phase now where the people we're hiring for now in fact we're interviewing right now is for advanced level computer coders that have very strong mathematics backgrounds so as soon as we start doing that what happens is either it's do or die, in other words if we're wrong these simulations will not simulate out to be physically realistic, right? if we're right they'll simulate out to be physically realistic and if that happens because the physical realism emerge from a hyper-rigorous mathematical formalism that comes ultimately from the gauge symmetry, you know, Leelatis algebras and comes with this strictly reasonable, you know rigorous code with no plugs right? yeah okay so then the ideas that you can run advanced level simulations that can showcase that your emergence theory of space-time and quantum mechanics can be you can simulate out to quasi-crystal the Lattises out into what you think is the fundamental mathematical equations that can then showcase what's occurring in the physical world and that can be repeated over and over and over again and physically over the time so it's like the laser show where there's only over time does this physics exist so even without the equations which we will have those as well but the simulation itself if you have a positron and electron interaction in the simulation animation and it behaves statistically just like quantum mechanics says it should behave then you have looked under the hood of quantum mechanics and have found the reason for the statistics in other words the simulation produces exactly the statistics then that means that the statistics and the simulation or the code are what we call in math isomorphic to one another you know which is to say that they may be they may look different but they're absolutely the same thing not analogs of one another okay and then there's there's still a lot more to talk about regarding what you're doing with topological quantum computing and cold fusion and whatnot I'm still very interested to talk to you about the advancements in those fields I do want to wrap and I want to open up space also for the rest of today's conversations that are going to ensue so let's do a quick just give us a quick update on topological quantum computing and cold fusion like is that where do those land on the priority level it's mostly the emergence theory is like what is that 80% and then topological quantum computing and cold fusion are less we're just focused stand and where are those where are those two at what gets me excited and gets me to keep pouring my energy into this is is service why not things that we can do that are high impact that make people have more fun and have people not be so mean to one another at the end of the day and so the two largest economies in the world are energy and information but energy eclipses information so the energy economy is by far the largest the second largest is information and so these are these are clearly important because as the internet grows as the information economy grows it is the fastest growing and hungriest beast for electricity it is single-handedly causing China and other countries to begin construction of new coal mines and accelerating global warming and we cannot rely on an alternative energy source in this current paradigm that is similarly priced to fossil fuel the reason if you think about it is because even if windmill and solar technology were 10% cheaper than fossil fuel technology what are you going to do about the trillions of dollars invested in the global infrastructure of FedEx's airplane fleet FedEx's car fleet every piece of factory equipment trillions of dollars in factory equipment based on burning various forms of fossil fuels somebody's got to pay for that and it's not going to get paid for by some clean energy technology that's 5% or 10% cheaper it needs to be an order of magnitude cheaper to foot the bill for a complete trashing and retrofitting of the old massive investment into fossil fuel energy technologies and so there is no such clean energy technology now on the horizon for that except for one and that's low energy nuclear reaction technology this was formerly called cold fusion so after 1989 there was this period where the scientific community who studied this decided that it's probably fake like not real it looked like it was real when the papers came out by ponds and fleshmen but then time went on and governments and institutes like MIT and others kept working on it and nowadays it's known by experts that it's real so low energy nuclear reaction is real but you have to be a subject matter expert if you got somebody who's old school and they were just a PhD physicist who was exposed to the paper 20 years ago then they would still be in the past what are you guys doing with low energy nuclear reaction so what we're doing is we're applying things that we've learned in these last 10 years for our space time theory to material science which is 23 orders of magnitude larger in scale at the atomic scale and we're applying that to the generation of energy via low energy nuclear reaction which is if it could be manifested and commercially available it would be the energy technology that's an order of magnitude cheaper than fossil fuels wind or sun or any form of electric city generation known so then on the other side of things is the the information economy and all of the goodness that's coming from it we haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg of what the freedom and flow and size of information and computational power how it can help people and how it can help alleviate suffering but as you know we're reaching the end of the party the Moore's law where we keep reducing the size of the circuits it's now starting to bump in to the limit at the atomic level through new algorithms in different ways a little bit more but we're still reaching a limit so what's going to happen when we reach that limit does the exponential expansion of digital empowered technology start to taper off like a bell curb and quantum computing as though written by a Hollywood screenwriter quantum computing is coming in and I'll ask you at right in the nick of time it's under development by Google Microsoft Intel IBM and China and lots of other places in a big way only in recent times and so of those five those five groups China Intel IBM and Google are gambling on what we call quantum computing Microsoft stands alone as the only big company gambling on topological quantum computing and you guys are too and us and a few others and a topological quantum computer would do what so topological quantum computer will do what is a great question because it allows me to remind us that science today does not know what quantum mechanics is they know the statistics as to what the hell is really going on and this is called the field area of the interpretations of quantum mechanics so you have the Copenhagen interpretation you have the Bohm interpretation you have all these interpretations but all the statistics which is just what quantum mechanics matches all of their interpretations and some of the interpretations have wildly different philosophical and ontological implications my opinion then is that reality itself the space time code is a topological quantum computer but we have to reject all former baggage that comes with the word computer or computation because that comes from 20th century notions of linear binary computation your mind does not compute like that, your mind can compute what's 2 plus 2, right? you just compute it 4 but just because you compute doesn't mean you're a computer you're a computer or you're not a computer and so if reality is a topological it's a neural network just cutting to the chase it's a neural network a topological quantum computer but it's almost a magical neural network because it's using the bizarre spooky weirdness of quantum mechanics where a thing can be here and then here but it was never at any other place in between just weird like teleporting and these other sorts of ideas that two things can be connected or entangled such that a change here instantly makes a change here with no time there's no time for this to influence that and quantum computing does not do that only topological quantum computing employs some of the concepts from quantum mechanics that are weird yes, but topological quantum computing goes kind of even more exotic and so we're here in Southern California in the world's epicenter for topological quantum computing it was invented by Alexei Kiryav at Caltech half hour from here and Microsoft put in huge tens of millions of dollars into an institute called Microsoft Station Q at UC Santa Barbara where they collaborate with the university so that's where there's a huge amount of work being done there with collaboration with Microsoft and then Caltech so yeah, we're kind of in the backyard of topological quantum computing and then time allocation to those other two compared to the emergence theory what do you guys have? well, we've got about 15 or so scientists all PhDs working on the low energy nuclear reaction technology and in the next six months I'm going to begin funding the startup we've already set up the startup but to start recruiting and organizing it is something I'll be doing later part of this year for the quantum computing company so the quantum computing company is called E so we have E emergence so the quantum computing is small E emergence and then the energy company is called emergent energy so we really like the word emergence and so our theory, unification theory is of course emergence theory and your time dedicated to those other two compared to I would say that 100% of my time right now is dedicated to the unification theory because that's it and that encompasses the other three sub components there will be genetic technologies there will be superconducting technologies many technologies will come out of this theory if it's true if it's physically true but I want to spend time on these two other things for two reasons one is they will help the world they'll do good in the world and two is they will bring evidential experimental support to the theory because the theory if it's rigorous and predictive and if it has at its core the foundation of this philosophical underpinnings like we've been talking about the new world view that legitimizes some of the claims of people who have had psychic experiences indigenous peoples experiences may not legitimize all of their stories and the metaphors but it'll legitimize that and it could make a new world paradigm which is really kind of like the unification of spirit and matter and science where both of those words are so loaded that it represents the word matter we can say incorporates them physics and quantum mechanics and what we can understand about nature through mathematics and then the world of spirit is this ineffable world of these experiences within consciousness and experiencing other consciousnesses and what if those two things were placeholders like partially dirty or incorrect stories that are placeholders placed by a much more reasonable fully unifying new viewpoint so grand unification theory is not only for all of the different technologies that could that is going to catalyze the emergence of but it's also for us to mix together the spirit with science more effectively and understand the reality that we're in yes this has been an awesome round too I feel like we did a great job unpacking everything again there's still so much nuance here I would have spent like a whole other hour on quasi crystals and trying to understand those better and all the other work that quantum grad research is doing but this will make a good round three when we come and revisit for the next update and thanks for doing your homework because you prepared excellent questions and you're really following the topics I appreciate that of course better than I'm following quasi crystals but yeah you guys are doing great work it really does require people that are in like 15, 20 year depth in math or physics to get this stuff and to be able to test it empirically with the simulations this is very interesting stuff what you're doing and hopefully what the benevolence channeling through everyone is here for a reason to alter our trajectory of direction thank you so much for coming up for round two really appreciate it thanks everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below in the episode let us know what you're thinking do check out quantumgravityresearch.org check out the link in the bio and also talk to your friends, your families coworkers, people online on social media about grand unification theory talking more about this and what it could really unlock for us blending together space time, quantum mechanics also talk more about source and or boros talk more about what we're talking about there what is the ultimate teleology of this human experiment and also go and check out all the cool videos that quantumgravityresearch has made about the quasi crystal because all the videos that are up do a really good job at explaining what they're talking about so check those out, those are all on the youtube channel and on the website both and also support the artists, the entrepreneurs, the spiritual leaders, the organizations around the world that you believe in, support them and help them grow, support quantumgravityresearch support simulation, our links are below to our patreon cryptocurrency, paypal links all down there help us continue doing cool things like coming on site to topango for these interviews and also go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world we love you very much, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you soon peace it's a wrap good job thank you guys let's see yeah I'm a child that's good