 Hello and welcome. Thrilled to have you here. Another episode of The Nonprofit Show. If you joined us in that green room chatter, you know that Danette O'Connell is with us and Danette is the founder executive director with The Nonprofit Cooperative and she's here to talk to us about that, how nonprofits can work together, i.e. cooperate. So stay with us. Before we dive deep into this conversation, we want to remind you who you are looking at or possibly listening to. So hello to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and myself, Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. We are honored to have the continued support by our very best friends and presenting sponsors. So thank you so very much to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Be Generous, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, Non-Profit Thought Leader and Non-Profit Nerd. If you haven't checked out these companies, do yourself a favor and do that in just about 29 and a half minutes. Yes, not quite yet, but as soon as Danette wraps up for the conversation today, these companies truly exist with one focus and mission in mind and that's yours. So they're truly here to help you elevate your mission in and around and throughout your community. So please do check them out. And again, if you missed any of our previous episodes, hey, you know where to find us. You've heard me long enough to say Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And for those podcast listeners, go ahead and queue us up there too. Wherever you stream your podcast, you can listen to the non-profit show. Danette, you've been waiting so patiently and we are so very honored to have you here as a guest. Again, Danette O'Connell, Founder, Executive Director, the Non-Profit Cooperative. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Okay, Danette, you're in New York City. Tell us what you do. The Non-Profit Cooperative, we're going to talk a lot about cooperation in a different way, but talk to us about the cooperative. Why you started it and what it does. So the Non-Profit Cooperative was started to provide free resources to nonprofits. So there were so many membership organizations out there that was charging nonprofits to become members and then for training, then going to events. And as we all know, operational dollars are so hard to get. So what I wanted to do is create an organization and have all of that for free. Every resource that I can provide to nonprofits, I want to do it for free. And so we have training, we have roundtables, we have mentor programs. We have incubator programs to help people start nonprofits. We give grants away. We're actually this month starting a foundation where we'll give more money away, but it's for operational dollars so that people can grow their nonprofits. And the resources that we provide is to help them grow. And so every resource that I can give them for free, we do. But we also have members who are for profits that provide resources or services to nonprofits and we introduce them to them. We have a vetting process. So they're the best of the best and they're exclusive. So you only have one. So like when you go to a membership organization and you're looking for an accountant, there's 20 different accountants. Well, how do you know which one's good? You don't. So we take that guessing out of it. So we provide a vetting process and for the nonprofits. Wow. Is this for nationwide or just regionally, you know, around the greater New York area or how do you serve? We serve the entire United States. All sectors of nonprofits, big, large, medium, small, all of them. Awesome, awesome. Fantastic. What an amazing resource. So I'm so glad to have you here to learn more about these roundtables and the incubators because you shared a little bit with us in the green room chatter, you know, how you get together with cohorts around the nation. So, so let's dive into this cooperative and how you provide services. But in particular, let's get to collaboration versus competition. Can you talk to us to net about that? Yeah, sure. So, you know, all nonprofits, we like to collaborate together, but let's face it that we do compete against each other. It could be in the same neighborhood. There may be five nonprofits that are doing the same thing, but instead of there's room for everybody, right? So, you know, what I do is I try to bring everybody to collaborate with each other. So even if you're in the same neighborhood or in the same, you know, United States, it doesn't make a difference. So, and so we create these roundtables where everybody can bring their ideas to the table and so that we can collaborate with each other. And yes, you may have competition at the table. But, you know, sometimes that works, you know, where people will start collaborating. They may be competitors in the morning, but collaborators in the afternoon because collaborating could be a good thing applying for grants or just sharing different ideas. You know, we're here to serve the communities. So, you know, it's always good to collaborate. You know, one of the things that Jared and I have noticed, I would say really in the last, say, five to eight years, and I'm interested in your opinion on this, is that we've seen a lot of funders really demand, you know, grant activity be resourced to collaborators. And in pushing the concept of, hey, you need to get together so that you're not duplicating services and you can be more powerful. I'm wondering if you've seen that as well. And if maybe COVID has changed that. You know what I've been consulting prior to building this organization consulting to nonprofits for 12 years. And we have seen this increase more and more. And what part of my consulting services is growing nonprofits. Yeah, so I've been growing nonprofits and businesses, my whole entire career. And I actually encourage this. So I match them through their NAIC codes, and then see if they can apply for grants and sometimes it's, you know, they compliment each other. So they don't have to be the same, but they do think similar, but they compliment each other to move forward and apply for these grants because they'd rather give a grant to several organizations versus because the money goes further and the impact is larger. Yeah. Danette, I'm curious. And again, I heard you say you serve the entire US so I don't want to pigeonhole it only to New York. But how many registered nonprofits are currently in New York? Are you, are you familiar with what that might number might be? I used to know this and I think it's in New York State. I believe it's 750,000. Oh, my gosh. So in Arizona. Yes. In Arizona, the last I checked was 23,000, but 1.8 million across the US, right? So we're talking so many organizations that have, and thank you for that because I, you know, I didn't need to back you into a corner and I know the number fluctuates, you know, based off of the IRS and whatnot. So 1.8 million nonprofits in the US. So to have this organization in a manner to collaborate, and I love what you said they might be competitors in the morning and collaborate, collaborators in the afternoon. And I just, that just like paints the beautiful picture for me. So thank you for that. And that's so true. You know, we encourage this and, you know, people are like other competitors of mine. I can't talk to them. I'm like, you may learn something from them. You know, in the green room, you know, if you're on the West Coast or the East Coast, you're going to do things differently. So bringing that together and learning from each other is key. And this is really why I started these roundtables. And so, and ours are peer to peer. So we have a roundtable for just board members. We have them just for executive directors, and then we have them for leadership team so that everybody feels comfortable and talking to their peers and not worrying about their boss being in there or a board member being in there. So it's really strictly peer to peer. Yeah. So they really get creative and they talk openly if they're matched up with their peers. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Well, talk to us a little bit more about this different and approach because, you know, some I'm sure as you said may say, oh, we're too different. We can't, we can't talk the same language. But how might that actually bring us together so truly can nonprofits with differing approaches really work together? They can. And because just because you do things differently, the end result is the same, right? So learning from each other on how to, you know, work together and get to that. They say, okay, well, you know, the East Coast fundraise is different than the West Coast. It doesn't mean that there's a right way or a wrong way. It just means that they do it differently. So why not work together and see if it will work? Maybe the East Coast approach will in the West Coast. We don't know. But working together and figuring that out is a perfect way to find out. And that's the things that we do. As a matter of fact, our next one is on this topic and really getting to know your donors through this process too for fundraising. One of the things I've noticed, especially during COVID is how our reach for donors has expanded. And so, you know, there's been a lot of individuals that have relocated in the last three years. And so even if it's, you know, an East Coast organization, they might be stewarding someone that just moved from the West Coast. And so there could be, you know, different opportunities to engage. So again, I grew up in South Carolina and I'm now, you know, living, working mostly on the West Coast in Arizona and the surrounding. So having those different techniques is really important. What have you seen truly come out of these roundtables in the discussions? More collaboration. So having nonprofits give each other ideas and having them, you know, march forward together and apply for grants together. So there's a lot of giving each other those ideas is just wonderful. Right. So, and I have to say, since COVID, you know, and we now have Zoom and, you know, these remote has really made such a huge impact because prior to COVID, one, I could have never started something like the cooperative. How do we collaborate across the whole United States, right? It's very difficult. And so, and we are split up into three zones, the East, the Central and the Pacific. And so, and we have, you know, different vendors from different places that really help collaborate that also and they bring ideas. So we will bring them in to facilitate, answer questions and give them ideas and they work with nonprofits across the United States. So how great is that right to bring all these people together, something we could have never done five years ago. So, you know, Danette, one of the things that we all are aware of is the civil discourse. In fact, a lot of times on the nonprofit show, you know, and I would say this was kind of early on, Jared and I started referring to the pandemic's plural, meaning, you know, social injustice, the social injustice that we're seeing, economic duress, obviously the health crisis of COVID, but civil discourse and the erosion of being able to have civility on some pretty basic levels. I'm wondering if you see this in the nonprofit sector, just because we might have different faith constructs or, you know, philosophies about our service area, can we still collaborate? It's kind of a heartbreaking question to even ask. And it's really hard and sometimes it's a touchy subject and so, but, you know, I look at it as we all, we're all here to help in some shape or form, right? So why not collaborate and do it together regardless of what sector or form that you are in? You know, let's just work together, find a way to do this and open up the conversation. And so we try to do that as often as we possibly can, just to bring it open and have diversity and bring everyone together. You know, we're all here to help and help ourselves and, you know, help others. You know, even as a leader, we don't do this unselfishly, right? Like, we want to, you know, get out there and help, but it makes us feel good also. So, even as executive director to open your hearts up then. Do you ever have to remind your nonprofit leaders about this or are you finding that this is a natural confluence of talent and time coming together or do you see that as an issue? See it as an issue. I see it as an opportunity to teach and to, you know, remind people of this and educate, right? Like, let's have a, have the discussion and teach, you know, for the ones who don't know. So, you know, for people like for diversity, you know, people in some areas don't really pay too much attention to it. So we bring it to their attention. Yeah, I love it. I love your attitude. I really, really do. I was curious about like MOUs. Do you really push forward for that memorandum of understanding or memorandum of agreement? Do you push forward for that as well as I'm thinking like an NDA and non-disclosure agreement? Are those some things that you provide insight for in in your discussions? Great question. We do. Yeah, very great question. Really good question. And we do push for those because, you know, everybody goes into a relationship thinking it's going to be a bed of roses, right? So like, but it's not always that way, right? We all know that. So, you know, protecting yourself in every aspect that you possibly can if it's an MOU or an NDA, of course they should be signed, you know, pretty much upfront. I'm old school where I'll do things on a handshake. And yes, I've been burned in the past. So it's just, you know, your level of, you know, of understanding. But, you know, I always encourage the signed document regardless if you do things on a handshake in the beginning before moving forward, especially if you're applying for the grant, you know, for a grant together. It's really to have an MOU spell out what you're going to do, what I'm going to do, how much money you're going to get, how much money I'm going to get. That is very, very important. And I think sometimes these grand tours, Dinette will ask for that, right? They'll ask for that outline of agreement between partners. And sometimes, you know, I know here in our community, there's a grand opportunity, and you have to have, it's required, three partners. You know, so it's not just a pair. It's really a partner or group of three. So to have that laid out and very clear, I think is a great best practice. I'm glad to hear that you take that into consideration. Yes, and I think it should be laid out even before you apply for a grant. How are the three of you going to work together moving forward? It may change the details a little bit once you apply for a grant, but having that full understanding of who's going to do what and when, I think is really important to state, you know, just for the sake of the relationship. We don't spell it all out because there may be overlap. I mean, if you guys are working together, more likely there are some type of an overlap, so it has to be really spelled out who's doing what and how. So that when you do come to a grant opportunity, that it's just an easy leap over. You know, to say, okay, this is what the three of us will be doing, and this is how we're going to move forward and, you know, and then work out to find the details. You know, I'm going to kind of tag on to Jared's question and that is ask you to talk about collaborations. Do you find that when an organization is successful with like their first collaboration, they're like, holy moly, we got to do more of this? Or the opposite part of that question would be like, if they have some conflict, are they hesitant to seek this out? Or I mean, what are you seeing in this trajectory? Because this is a new concept for a lot of us in the nonprofit sector. And it is. And so it could be several different ways, right? So I have seen and I used to do when I was doing consultant mergers also. So people think, oh my God, mergers and a nonprofit is just impossible to do. And they are trickier and harder to do. But believe it or not, I've done them and where it's taken so long because, you know, people change their minds and yeah, I want to do this. No, I don't. Then we finally get to the end and they're like, oh, we're so happy we did that. Let's do it again. And you would think that if it took you years to get through this, why would you want to do it again? But you know what the benefits at the end are so wonderful. And they're so, you know, collaborating can, because you can affect more people and help more people. So why not do it? And it's the same way of just partnering on a grant, right? It's the same way you may not be merged, but you're still collaborating. And so even if it doesn't go as smooth as you expect, once you see the end result and see how many more people that you can help and how your organization can expand just by partnering, they normally want to do it again. Some say, no, thank you. I've had enough. But that's only an instance of where it goes bad. But, you know, we really, I think I've seen that one time and it was a personality conflict and you can't prevent those. You know, like, you know, you just, you can't, but for the most part, it always works out. And if it's a collaboration or a merger and they normally work out and they expand again. I would say, you know, since COVID started March of 2020, and I'm sure we all have it circled on our calendar, right, is the amount of mergers that have taken place across the nation, but in particular in our sector, I think has been by and far, you know, the largest amount. But I'm curious if you can talk to us about how collaboration did it builds competence in the community, right so like coming together in this collaborative spirit. Are you seeing that it's building like, you know, the competence factor in our sector. Without a doubt, because everybody is learning right so everybody's learning from each other, new ways to approach things, new ways of doing things and things that you may not have thought about before the part the collaborative by default will bring that right. So it's just really agreeing on that moving forward, but definitely you're building upon what you've already been doing and, you know, and bringing that sometimes it's even like, you know, technology, new technologies, new ways, like all of that comes together, you know, in order to be able to build competence moving forward. So collaboration is definitely bring brings a lot of that. Yeah, you know, it's interesting and I'm glad Jared that you asked that question because that's one of the things we don't talk about enough I think in the nonprofit sectors. How are we elevating ourselves professionally. We are businesses, and yet sometimes we forget to operate that way, because we have a different profit or revenue model, but it is really something to take a look at and be a lot more interested in is how we operate in a more professional environment and elevate our competencies. It definitely is and especially when you bring two organizations together, you learn from each other, because you may not know something and they do and vice versa. And if there's anything that you don't know that you feel you do know, you know, even like our organization we provide so many different trainings to learn, but not only to learn but to keep on top of the latest and greatest of what's going out there right, because technology changes every single day. And so just staying on top of that is the tour in itself, but there's some, you know, there's quicker ways of doing things and faster, you know, bigger better faster ways of doing things and, and when you collaborate that brings brings that to the table, or it brings the idea like, Okay, here's our gap and we need to go learn that. You know, because, you know, you have to stay on top of things that all given times, even if you're not collaborating you have to do that, it's just easier when you collaborate because you have two heads versus one. And actually, there's more than that right because you have two big teams now, or even two small teams, you know, but if each organization has, let's just say small ones, three staff members. It's four people on each side. So you're bringing eight people together with all new ideas, you know, on how to move forward, like how great is that right. I was thinking to that two heads is better than one, you know, um, we have a viewer I was just reading this big miracles require collaboration and teamwork partnership is a very important is very important for growth so absolutely it's so very important. I'm curious to know, could you share a little bit with us and for our viewers and listeners that are saying, I have to know more about this cooperative right like how can I get a piece of that how can I play in the sandbox with Danette and the partnership. You know that you've provided across the nation. So tell us a little bit about where we can find these resources and again if we're interested how we can maybe be partnered up with our peers across the nation. Great. So you can go to as the screen says www the nonprofit cooperative.org. It is free for all nonprofits don't never be a fee. You know, as we always say there's no gimmicks nothing behind the curtain like completely free. And so when you sign up, you do have to become a nonprofit associate to take advantage of our grants. You don't have to become a member to come to the roundtables but in order to get emails and learn when the roundtables are the meet and greets we have meet and greets every month where nonprofits just come and chat in a room and meet all over the United States and share ideas and I'll ask everybody questions and who they are and who's you know who they want to meet and what you're looking for. So we have those so we have so many different programs that we have and they're all listed on our website. And then once you become a member. There's a members only section. And once you become a member you can get back there you can have a list of all the nonprofits that are involved. There's discounts behind there there's technology behind white papers. There's all different kinds of resources behind the scenes, but you do have to become a member and associate and nonprofit associate to get access to this. But again, it's all free. Right. So there's nothing to lose by becoming a nonprofit associate. Fantastic. When did you start this organization or when was it started. This actually organization was just started last year, I had one here in New York City that was started in 2018. And it's still here in New York City and then I've taken the nonprofit cooperative I wanted to go national. So, I moved on with the nonprofit cooperative. And then we, at the middle of this month we started a foundation that will be able to fund nonprofits also so that is will be launched on September 21, but that will also be on our website. So, everything that we do and resources are on our website we have a calendar of events so you can come and join us for training and for all of our events. Fantastic. Yes, it's very exciting. Well, it's been great to talk with you and you know we we were talking about this over the past week or so is that for so many of us September is kind of almost like a kickoff of a new season. It's the end of the year fourth quarter but it there's something of renewal and a new dedication I think to the process and so really cool to learn about you and your organization because we can all afford to cooperate and to work together and however that looks like. Danette O'Connell. Thank you so much for joining us. It's really been a delight to have you in case you need to a little remembrance of what we are. I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself. I'd like to call her my nonprofit nerd. You do. I do. I'm always like, What do you think, but CEO of the Raven group. Thank you, Jared so much for being the trusty sidekick that you are. And again, we want to thank all of our generous sponsors blue meringue American nonprofit Academy, your part time controller be generous fundraising Academy at National University staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and nonprofit nerd. These are the people that have stepped forward and continue to support us well beyond our 600 episodes to support the nonprofit sector. So we are really excited and appreciative that we have that that that force I guess really Jared would call it the life force behind a nonprofit show so thank you so much. And thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this. Oh, my gosh, you've been great. You guys are fantastic. Thanks. I think we're going to be talking to you some more because I'd really love to at some point, talk more about mergers, because I think it's such a big topic, and one that we could always get some more advice on so you might be hearing from sooner rather than later. Anyway, a whole group of people throughout the whole United States that does this. Perfect. We need we need more knowledge about that. That's for sure. Hey everybody as we end every episode we like to remind ourselves, our viewers and our listeners to stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone.