 So, Janchu, thank you very much for meeting me. 2019, it feels like quite a monumental year. It feels like there is change of foot. Why agroforestry? So, agroforestry we're dealing as a system. So, it's agroforestry not to talk about diversity, we talk about the flexibility and the dynamic. So, this allowed you, if you are innovative enough, to think about, use different approach to solve the different issues. So, that's simply why it's agroforestry so popular in 2019. And what are the, how do you see it as a solution? Then what kind of problems are there that need to be solved where agroforestry can step in and be the innovative solutions to our issues we're facing? The solution, agroforestry is a big umbrella and often with more look at the species-based, technical oriented. No, it's a agroforestry social institution. It's a big framework included from producer to consumer. So, because now today's consumer is unique, they're not certified only in rice, bread and they need diversity niche products or exotic products. Today in China, go to China, it's avocado. Oh, so fancy to have avocado, it's to replace the fashion. So, today's open needs are quite different from past. So, that's why agroforestry, it's about, not only about technology, it's about social institutions, social movement, about the fashion. And does agroforestry then provide an answer to the needs of a more bourgeoisie class then that want to kind of eat out of season and some might say unsustainably. Is agroforestry kind of providing a potentially sustainable tool to do that? Yeah, and agroforestry, because we often think about agroforestry in rural area, but now today's agroforestry is everywhere, it's all over the side and in the urban system. So, agroforestry is a multiple way of thinking and often use agroforestry as a symbolically look at the 3D, vertical and dynamic. And so, agroforestry helps you to think about the tree from different angle, but also even below ground. Today, another fashion talk about soil and then interaction between below and above ground. So, you said then that soil is something that people are kind of becoming more aware of, soil health. What role does agroforestry have to play in that? I think agroforestry, it's a fairly powerful tool to engage different stakeholders. It's simply, you know, it's a bling back to nature through the tree as a symbolic and because today the public talk about, you know, say carbon sequestration through the tree planting. That's a popular concept, you know, that's one. The second also is scientifically, and then we talk about the soil community and now I'm talking about two types of soil. One is the fertile soil to think about how to plant trees without soil. So, that means you turn any waste into substrate, you do compost, you do so. And today, urban people also supply with soil in a different way. Of course, you know, say how a tree linked with soil, that's another dimension, how to basically to enhance the soil carbon, to enhance the quality of food. But also sometimes we have more carbon in the soil, so you can sequestrate the greenhouse gas emissions. So, agroforestry then is a way for not only to give us food, but to sequester the carbon. So, is it a solution to help combat climate change? Yeah, agroforestry, it's a very simple way to, you know, the most economic way to sequence carbon in the landscape level. So, that's I think definitely the best way. So, let's say it's a smart solution for climate change. How do you even do with a circular agriculture system? Okay, we often ask a farmer to plant trees and you cover the glass. But the farmers say, can I get income? And as a scientist and as an equal scientist say, yes. And they will say, how? I'll say, and we have a machine factory and we can buy biomass from you. What kind of biomass you have and we're all taking. So, we make a different substrate for different mushroom species. Some, it's more to bring the woody biomass, some more vegetative biomass and like elephant glass. So, we have different mushroom species which need a different substrate. And so, that's one story. So, once you have a mushroom and then after growing mushroom by another group of farmers and then when we replace the new mushroom back to them, we collect the older back mushroom and then we make a new composite. So, we make a compost fertilizer. So, we give to a agriculture farmer and then they do it again. So, the story you can always, you know, make a circular work. That's one. And then we see chicken farm supported by government and there's a large scale. And they were talking about 100,000 chickens. And then, you know, every day they have waste and the main issue is the shit. Now, those waste, the government not allowed to dump into feed to water because of pollution. Then, we put the insects inside. The insects and the 20 days, insects went from very young baby to big insect. So, insects and then we put into bio-reactive and put into organic fertilizer and liquid fertilizer going to drip irrigation or you develop because the insects are mainly a protein and then use the insects as a feed for fish. Then you get the fish. Then, you know, the story we can always go in is a fish waste and then we use another insect to process, to eat it because the fish we're doing is a large scale tilapia farm. We meet the European standard. So, mainly high quality tilapia meat to export to Europe. And then the waste again, you cannot go to outside ecosystem. Then we need the insects again. So, the story, it's circular. And what role do the insects play? So, insects play and they're converting the wood biomass or the fiber biomass into basically protein, the conversion like chicken. And then of course, the insects are the best, how to say, and they can convert 100% biomass into 100 equivalent protein. So, that's a high failure efficient compared to chicken, pork and pig and cattle. What happens to the insects? So, insects are a multi-purpose and you're sailing to open area for feed the pets. And then you feed the duck and you give feed to chicken and all replace the fish powder for the protein source for any animal feed, livestock feed. And all we put into a amino acid fertilizer and because now intensive farming needs a drip aggregation now combines fertilizer with water. So, that's the manufacturing insects. And then we try to use live insects to feed another carnivore fish. They think carnivore fish has a fairly high value because they have less bone. The Chinese, we like the fish alive, you know, the carnivore fish, they eat the live insects and then when they're sailing to market, they're still alive. There aren't many people in the field that are linking agroforestry, agroecology and circular agriculture. How easy is that? It's not easy. No, but it's a good thing. Most of the challenges you need is system thinking. So, the problem now today, oh, I'm trained as an insect expert. You trained as a tree expert. Nobody talks about each other. So, today we need to transdisciplinary. The insects expert, you know, how to manage the tree, how to manage the plant and then survive further. So, transdisciplinary and system thinking is the first one. So, second one and also you cannot invest without a return. So, you have to listen to the market, where is the market, particularly the new model, new products and the new market. So, that's you need a scientific innovation. You need to calculate how much labor and what's the cost of the infrastructure. Then you need to engage stakeholders to convince everyone, make everyone happy in the process. So, three steps and the market will work. Why are mushrooms so under-researched? Okay, because I'm a scientist and I can easily train students to probably five, ten papers as one PhD because again, very few people study mushrooms and fungi, you know. In the past five years, my team has published more than 1,000 new species. So, make your citation, make your impact faster, higher, go to mushroom. So, we have, we host the fungi diversity in the journal and was impact factor 14. So, that's one. The second also, some mushrooms are very beautiful and then you find different colors, different shape and nobody pay attention. Everyone pay attention to flowers and fruits but nobody pay attention to mushrooms. Recently, we found a mushroom and how to say, it's a fairly shiny and blue color and the public just pay attention. Wow, what's a strange thing in the nature and they have such kind of color. So, it's really attract attention. Finally, the mushrooms have value and in my province, we talk about the billion-billion-dollar industry of the mushroom. Now, we're cativating more around and then we export to Europe and now Chinese market also coming and another high value is triple and then and we have so medicinal value and the Lingzi and what's called the Garnodoma and that's all linked to anti-cancer component and yeah. So, it's mushroom, it's a yeah. Is that a problem that mushrooms haven't particularly charismatic or beautiful to look at. So, they kind of fall out of favor with with with the even the science community. Yeah. No, that's that's the you know, that's the way today we are struggling and we everyone say we're so advanced in science but in certain fields, there's still science not so well advanced. That's the fungi kingdom, entire fungi kingdom. You look like a fungi.