 out later. Got it. Welcome everyone. I think you're in the right place. We have an exciting presentation for you today. My name is Vivian White and we'll be welcoming Teresa Summer here in just a minute who's going to be really leading this, but we're having some technical difficulties. So we're going to roll with it. I want to welcome you to the Big Astronomy webinar for a brand new toolkit that we have just sent to many of you. This is for working with blind and visually impaired visitors. And these, well, you'll hear a lot about all of these pieces of the toolkit in just a second. Let me see if I can advance. Momentito. Let's see. There we go. This is the overview. We'll just do a few introductions. We have a lot of people who helped to make this happen. Hopefully Teresa will be back in time for the best practices. And then we're going to share some of our activities that we created for this toolkit. And if you have questions, I think maybe if you could just stick them in the chat as we go along. And Brian, will you help with that one? Help us kind of field some of these questions. Thank you so much. All right. Welcome. We are also waiting for one other person to join us who is Ken Quinn, who has been an amazing resource for this toolkit. And I also want to mention that Noreen Grace is on here. And we're so happy to have you on here because you were part of the inspiration for this toolkit as well. Noreen does a lot of things. Let me see. You've got, I've got many of her books here on my shelf behind me, Everyone's Universe, and a lot of others that she has done. Noreen's been working with the blind and low vision community for a long time, creating great astronomy activities and planetarium activities. So welcome, Noreen. And thanks for being a part of this. We have one other webinar that we have done before. Noreen had created, had taken some of the original toolkit activities that I'll show you in a minute and created some do-it-yourself versions of those for working with people with visual impairments. And we have taken some of what she has done and some new ideas and created a physical toolkit that we have mailed out to a lot of you. So I know not everyone has gotten them yet because we just sent them out last week, but we will be, you should be getting them very soon if you've signed up for them. And if you haven't, give us a minute and there's a place to sign up for them. We'll show you how to do that. So Ken, Brian is Ken on yet? Yes, Ken. Right after you said his name. Hi. Oh, and Teresa's back. Okay, good. Yes. And I think I should be good. Yes, I can hear you. I had some technical difficulties, everyone. As did we, Ken. So it's great to see everyone and welcome if I missed that part. Go right ahead. I'm going to let you take over, Teresa, because you know what you're doing. Okay. And yeah, it's great to see you all. And thanks so much for joining us for this webinar and welcoming blind and low vision folks to your museum or astronomy event. And we are going to talk a little bit. Vivian, did you do the overview of the talk? And this is, this is your section, Vivian. Sorry about that. I get it. Sorry. I'm with you. Okay, give me one second. Let's see if that works now. Oh, there we are. Okay. Yeah, I did do the overview very quickly before you got here. Ken, maybe we should welcome Ken. Hi, Ken. Welcome. Hi, Vivian. Thanks. Glad to be here. Great to have you here. I'll do a quick bit of, Ken's got his whole section, but maybe I'll do a quick introduction. Ken, actually, maybe I'll let you do your introduction, Ken. I think that would be good if we all did our own intros. All right. Hello, everyone. My name is Ken Quinn. I live in Western Pennsylvania, specifically in Erie, Pennsylvania. I live with my wife and three children been making astronomy accessible to all included blind and visually impaired communities for over the last 22 years and working in conjunction with AUI as well as NASA to make those astronomy materials accessible over the last 22 years. And I just want to say that Ken, you've been an amazing part of our team and we couldn't have done half of this without you. So thanks for all of your support and input. You're welcome and I appreciate that. And I'm Teresa Summer and I work here at the Astronomical Society in the Pacific. I've been here for seven years now and I also have worked in a lot of planetariums and museums and so some of you I know from that realm and others of you I know from ASP, but it is good to see everyone. Vivian, do you want to do your own intro? Sure. I'll do a quick one. I'm Vivian White. I am the director of free choice learning at the Astronomical Society of the Pacific and I am just thrilled to get to work with Ken and Teresa and Noreen and lots of other people who have been so helpful on this. This is an exciting new area for us to explore at the Astronomical Society of the Pacific. So yeah, it's great to be here. I think I'll just launch right into it so that you all know what we're doing. The big astronomy grant that we got from the National Science Foundation was to create a planetarium show all about the big telescopes that are located in Chile and talk some about why we invest so much money in astronomy in Chile in particular. We created a, well I shouldn't say we, the California Academy of Sciences created an amazing planetarium show that won lots of awards and it was created in both English and Spanish which has been a nice way to distribute it more widely. It's also been translated into quite a few other languages and this is available for free in the 2k version. If you're a planetarium you can also get them in the 4k version. You just have to pay for the hard drive that we used to send it to you. So this is a really lovely resource and it was released right in March of 2020 which you can imagine is not the best time timing for releasing a planetarium show because not a lot of people are in planetariums at that exact moment. We had other things on our minds but luckily it was part of a big wide suite of materials and not only was there the show but we had live events and those went spectacularly well during when we were all kind of working from home as much as we could but a lot of the museums were closed and they were doing online activities. We had a lot of live events that happened with people who were from Chile who could talk to us about what was going on there we also the ASP the Astronomical Society of the Pacific came in and we created some hands-on toolkits which again were not ideal during a pandemic but so we translated some of that into online learning and I'll show you where to find all of that in a minute. We're doing a lot of cool research on well what started was going to be a big suite of activities but now it's on how we learned what we learned during the pandemic turns out so that's great we're presenting that Abrams Planetarium and Shannon Schmoller and her team are doing quite a bit of cool research on that so that's exciting and this is all funded by the National Science Foundation under the auspices of the Associated Universities Inc, AUI and ORA and NORLAB now so two of the big things that came out of it besides the Planetarium show are an educator guide and an informal toolkit and this informal toolkit has been the inspiration for what we're going to show you today. The initial toolkit was really so much fun to make and it had some pretty cool goals to it so we the the Planetarium show talks a lot about all the people that it takes to do big astronomy so it takes everyone from driving you know the people who drive the big trucks that move the the detectors all the way through to you know it also takes a full kitchen of people and it takes a lot of coders and a lots of technicians and things like that so we highlighted a lot of the different jobs that it took to to do big astronomy and so that was one of our main goals and so we have that there you can see the astronomy there's space for everyone talks about a lot of the different jobs that and we have a suite of about seven activities that came with the original toolkit which has been really fun and distributed to amateur astronomy clubs and museums around the world. You can get to that at bit.ly slash bigastro or with that QR code there that should get you to everything you need to know. Oops let's see nope not going to do that either. There we go and then I was telling you Noreen is here and she helped us create some really lovely materials that helped to visualize our galaxy and and other things for those visitors that were looked blind and had low vision so these are tactile images that are created kind of a do it yourself version of some of these activities the first top left you'll see we have showing some of the different constellations there and legends in the sky that we've created that we've talked about from around the world this was one of the original activities that had been used has been modified for use with those with low vision and who cannot see and then also you'll see some where some of these have gone for our newest toolkit and I'll show you those in just a second so a big shout out to Noreen these were really fun and amazing and we have tested them in many many places with many people and I think Teresa is going to talk about that in a second. Oh this is just what I wanted to tell you the learning goals for the main toolkit where of course teamwork as I just talked about a second ago also why we put the telescopes in Chile because it's dry and high and has a great infrastructure and lots and lots of space for placing large telescopes in great locations and also that the last goal there would be that we take information in many different forms from all different wavelengths of light and also even detecting with gravitational waves and things like that so a multi-messenger is what they call that approach to astronomy so last but not least and these are some funny pictures not what I planned to put up there but this was part of Chile also this is honoring some indigenous knowledge and just talking about how astronomy has got a cultural heritage to it that we all share and what that has meant to us over the years and currently so I think with that all maybe just talk about community as the astronomy community today we have created this kit in preparation for a community day April 29th but you can celebrate all month of April we encourage you to share this kit and the original kit with your audiences if you'd like to sign up on bigastronomy.org you can be entered to win some cool telescopes you will also get your events posted they're going to do lots of splashy pages about it and share with everyone what's going on so I encourage you to participate in community day or community month all April if you go to the main website you will find information on that and with that I will stop talking and pass it back. Thanks Viv. Just one one thing about community day that I wanted to mention is that you know with everything happening in March of 2020 this is a great opportunity to sort of remind folks of this amazing resource and you can get the show for free you can either have it for your planetarium or for your flat screen or whatever you use in your museum or event. Okay so just moving on to the main portion of the talk we're going to talk about best practices and that's for welcoming low vision and blind individuals to your museum and so I just wanted to mention that there's 1.3 million legally blind people in the US and 12 million people who have visual damage in their eyes and so there's a large population of the US that we would like to welcome to our events and so I just wanted to point that out before I turn it over to Ken who is going to talk specifically about some of the best practices. Wow are you three three so thank you much. Do you happen to have access to the slides if you could tell me what's on that first one there I don't have access to it all my text not working today for some reason. That's the text and screen readers one. Okay so screen readers are used by all blind individually impaired individuals to access any printed information that comes across pretty much any computerized device whether it be a tablet cell phone or a computer device. It reads what shows up there so all text all pictures however if pictures aren't labeled it will just tell us a graphic number so if you don't have your pictures labeled it will say graphic six trillion five hundred and thirty four thousand two hundred and ninety two. If you know what graphic numbers means that gives you at least a little bit of information but it really doesn't give you the extent of what you're viewing. For more information about that I would suggest contacting your web designers and they'd be able to best assist you with how to label those also there are links in the toolkit that you can go to that will show you best practices on how to do that. Yeah this whole best practices section is going to really be a lot about go and read the best practices section that came with the kit because there are links to different accessibility tools that can help you you see it just points out specifically what's needs to be adjusted for to make your website more accessible. Correct and if people have heard of alternate text or all text before what I just previously spoke about is totally different than all text so I would definitely take a look at the toolkit for that. No and I've just put in there graphics need to be labeled like the buttons that you push to go to a certain page or something that also needs to be labeled which I didn't I hadn't thought about before. Even if it's a button for like your cart or submit button if you have a form for a sign up for a field trip or something like that anything that you would visually see needs to be labeled. Exactly and we're going to make these slides available and we're also recording this so you'll have lots of opportunities to check this out. Vivian you want to go to the next slide which is about setting up the space when you're having an event. Yep so setting up the space is crucial if you're going to have stuff in your facility that you're going to want the participants to manipulate and especially if they're on table have them in trace so they can't roll around. When you are talking to a person who's visually impaired or blind you always want to refer to the face of a clock when referring to where things are placed on that tray. For example the clay is in the upper right hand corner your string is at six o'clock. Every single person that's blind or visually impaired has been oriented to the face clock and we use that in orientation of multiple things throughout our day so we're very familiar with it. Also if you have signage or anything that you want them to know about you know tell them where at that just don't say over there. Give specific directions go five feet and then turn right and you'll find it approximately five feet up on the wall. Let's go to the next slide Vivian. Go ahead. You just did a little about the etiquette where we want to do the etiquette. Other types of etiquette would be always to talk to the person who's visually impaired or blind directly. Don't talk to their friend or whoever might be with them. They can hear you they just can't see you and they're personally able to communicate and tell you their needs that they need to. When you come into a room say you know Mr. Jones Hyam you know Janet the front desk officer how can I help you if you have to leave for some reason let them know that you're leaving and when you come back let them know that you're back. Great next slide. This one is about how do you recognize a blind person when you're in your museum or event. Do we have any other bullet points on that Teresa? Yeah we have a cane and guide dog glasses and eye fog. So not every single blind or visually impaired person will look the same as the world is an individual so is the blind and visually impaired community. If somebody is standing there without a cane or a guide dog the possibility that they are just visually impaired they may need to walk up to an item to see it closely but that's maybe all the need that they need. Other times they might be wearing glasses due to the fact that they have some eye shadowing issues or issues with what's called photophobia or light fatigue. So you know just take that into account if you are seeing someone that's like that also you know a real big indicator of somebody who's standing there with a guide dog or a cane. You never want to grab a person's cane out of their hand or even touch the cane while they're using it and the same thing goes with the guide dog. You never want to touch them while they're working even if they're just standing there still. A good rule of thumb is if a guide dog and this goes for any type of service dog if they have a harness on they are working and should be considered working and ignored. Best rule of thumb is to ask the handler before you touch their dog because a dog and the handler is a team they both rely on each other. Just thinking as if from the visually impaired perspective and the guide dog is their eyes so would you like somebody to come up and touch your eyes as you're walking down the center of a street? I can assume you probably wouldn't so it's kind of the same thought process for the visually impaired and our guide dogs. Thanks and then you wanted to talk about universal design a little bit. Yeah when setting up your locations and also your exhibits I would use universal design principles. So just when we talk about making a facility universally designed for all to be able to use same thing goes to with regards to setting up interactive stations or anything that you're going to have in your exhibit. So best thing is to look at your exhibit look at what you want to have come out of that for the participants and then say can everybody do this? If somebody can't see can they do that? And I've had people before say well how can I do that? I don't know any tasks or tools or how you know every single blind person can access this and I say to them okay well if you if you never knew what you were coming up to and you came up to it with your eyes totally closed would you be able to do this? And sometimes they say yes sometimes they say no and when they say no then they go back to their drawing board and they figure out how could I do this if I couldn't see it? So that is just one example of a universal design. Thanks and then specific for astronomy say you're going to do a presentation about the Big Dipper and you had a visually impaired person come into your dome you could simply take a paper plate and with either a drill bit attached to a drill or even just a nail poke some holes in the paper plate and they could at least feel the Big Dipper and follow along with your presentation. Thanks you also want to talk about large print and braille? Whenever possible have large print and braille available just as you would have regular documentation available for the public if you have the ability to have it on hand you should large print is considered no less than 18 point font and braille is just a standard braille font there's actually no font like there is in print for braille there's something called the unified English braille code which everything nowadays is produced in there used to be multiple codes but that went out the window about I believe roughly five years ago now so now everything's in unified English braille code and every single line of visually impaired person that reads braille is able to understand it and read it and it kind of goes back to that thought press of universal design so if we're going to have it in print for the normal public to read and access we should have it also in large print and braille. Thanks we were going to do a section on audio descriptions but I just put the link in there because I think that that's something that would be great for you to explore on your own but unless you want to do it now can I feel like we've had a lot of technical difficulties and I if you think we could pull it off I'd be able to do it now but I still want to pose the question I'd be willing to receive responses is why is audio description in media important would you guys like to answer that in the chat why do you think that this description audio description in media is important and I'll let you just know and I haven't heard anything come across the chat yet but and we'll put some of those samples in the chat as well give us just a second the question Ken you said was why do you think it's important Myra said that people need to follow a visual narrative as well yeah and Mary says to make it things more accessible for everyone Kim mentions to be inclusive yeah all good points mainly because what you don't get to see visually you lose a lot of them so it does add context to the dialogue like one person just stated in the chat but it gives you what you're missing visually just think if you were watching your movie or show that you'd like to watch on tv all the visual cues and actions that happen if you could not see that you would miss out on and it oftentimes changes the meaning of what you're hearing both verbally as well as the sound effects so wherever it's possible to do so you should always have audio description I know that's not always possible everywhere but there are ways to do it for very inexpensive as well also kind of going on that same hand wherever it's possible and probable it's always good practice to have closed captioning and when possible live sign language available and Noreen I just watched your other presentation about accessibility and best practices and I thought if you had if you wanted to jump in you did a great description of the big dipper that you might use while you're in the planetarium and sort of doing in the live sections of your show just describing things visually instead of just pointing with the pointer to say and I'm gonna paraphrase this but Noreen like I said if you're you're welcome to join in that you want to say that there are seven stars and that they make the shape of a ice cream scoop where there's a scoop on the four stars on on the bottom and then that there's a handle that is going those made up of three stars and that it's in the north portion of the sky since Warren's not jumping in that's that's about as best as I can remember yeah I want to say you hit the nail on the head right there Teresa more descriptive than pointing and saying you know star a b c and d and actually being really descriptive yeah it's kind of the same thing with don't say over there right you want to exactly right you know so I think that that can be a big help that we can do for free in our planetarium shows that most places have live segments so Noreen just put in the chat that pictorial descriptions help everyone I definitely would agree with that think about if you're doing a presentation for you know school-aged kids preschool kindergarten first grade you're going to relate whatever they're seeing in the night sky to something that they're they already know exactly we have one last slide about the best practices and I'm not sure if we said this in the beginning but if you have questions put them in the chat jump on let us know because there's a lot of different sections we're going to be covering but this just says not all people who are blind and visually impaired are the same so there's a lot of individual differences as Ken was saying between people who are legally blind and people who have impairment and it's best to just ask the person yeah best to just ask and you know there's a difference too between legally blind and totally blind so pretty much anybody who wears glasses to an extent depending on what their vision is without glasses could be labeled as legally blind totally blind normally means you have no vision or very little usable vision and sometimes no vision at all with the exception of only light perception thank you was there anything else you wanted to add no I think we covered it covered it all you know open for questions of course great so I'll just keep looking in the chat but I'm going to move on to the activities that are in the actual kit here's a picture of some of them in front of you we're going to talk about three activities one is called in a different light which is about that multi wavelength spectrum there's losing the night which is about light pollution and why telescopes are in Chile and then legends in the sky is about this the constellations and the cultural connections that different people have with the sky and so if you want to go to the next slide there's a couple of commonalities that each activity has if you look there's like a big print guide to each for the visitor that anyone can read and we do big print so that low vision folks can see it there's also a separate piece that's not in this picture but everyone has a presenter information so that's specifically looking at the tips that you can use to share this information and then I'm going to show the materials as well next can I jump in here for one question one moment I saw a question come through the chat the differences between I believe it was between alt text and labels is that alt text describes the major things that are in a picture so for example if you had a picture that showed a desk with Helen Keller in it her teacher and Sullivan sitting next to it a bunch of stuff on her desk and what they were wearing you wouldn't want to put that whole description into the alternate text it's a total overload for the screen reader to read for the blind or visually impaired person to listen to and comprehend so you want to put in the major bullet points so for that example you'd put in you know and Sullivan and her student you could even name her student if you wanted to sitting at a desk along with and you could put several of the items that were listed on the desk for example a typewriter and so then with labeling your website you would go a different route best practices to talk to your web designer but it's actually labeling buttons and pictures that are on there that have an actual name to them so for example it'd be cart submit different buttons like that so that's the main differences between that and alt text thanks and if you find if you have a question that pops up also that like after about best practices we are going to have time at the questions and for questions at the end so I just wanted to let you know there's also that I want to mention that the Vivian put in the chat that there's a we did 30 point for these activities it limits the information that you can put which is actually kind of a neat feature in a way because you really want to really bring your focus down to what you want to communicate and I think that that's a way that doing accessible activities are beneficial for everyone because it really helps you hone in on the messages you want to share so as we get into this activity in a different light I want to talk about the types of light I'm sure you all know about them but like the wavelength and electromagnetic spectrum are complex topics so we just use types of light in this activity and I just want you to be able to judge it for your audience this is you know geared towards families and younger kids but you never know what people are interested in learning right but the questions that we ask are also about everyday use of different types of light like microwaves or for cooking food not specialized use but as I said you know your audience best so and I want to encourage you of course you probably know this already but asking questions is a great way to get people to talk about what they know and to find out their level of sophistication so what we start the activity with is just asking have you heard about the types of visible of light beyond the visible and you can probably read because it's such big print that even in this picture you can see what we said next page please next slide yeah um so the goals of this are just that there's many different types of light and the visible spectrum is just a small part and you can read the rest of them but I wanted to show you um this image which also Vivian showed because it was one of the activities that Noreen shared some ideas about how to make it more accessible and we ended up using a lot of those to make what we call a thermoform so you'll be seeing this if you haven't already gotten the kit you'll be seeing it shortly but this is the different information and so I'm going to just quickly change over my camera I hope that this works and we don't have too much issues but we'll see it looks like you might still have your background on Teresa oh there you go oh there we go great thank you so let's see if that works a little bit it's kind of foggy so let me see if I still have a blurred background there you go that looks great so this is the visual image this one comes with the kit and it has the different information from the different telescopes Alma which is the radio waves and is mentioned in the show and has a because it's based in Chile and then Hubble which is visible of course and then following the x-ray is from Chandra and so you can see that each of these different telescope images make a complete image that has the information from the different wavelengths and that's what we want to get across is that each type of light can give us new information about our universe so this is a translation that we did into these thermoforms and so if you look at this this is the key and one thing that you should know about this activity is that Braille is always on the top so this information on the top should is the same here's a key and it's about and it's about different textures and so each of these different textures represents a different telescope this one here that's sort of a little bit bumpy is a image of the Alma telescope and then there is the Hubble visible and the kind of mesh one that represents the x-rays and so we're going to just scoot over to the other one which is the compilation image so again Braille is always on the top and then here you can see the completed image that has when you feel it you can feel the different levels from each radio telescope from the visible and x-ray so it's a tactile information that you can share so I'm just going to put these here in case anybody has any questions about those and also I'm going to switch back to the other camera so we're back next slide Vivian I think this one is for you I think so too okay excellent so thank you so much if you don't have these in front of you you can create them yourself we do we did work with Noreen and she helped us create the the version the do-it-yourself version so if you don't have the tactiles in front of you you can also make it yourself we have all that up on line we'll put that link in the chat again um all right but this one we actually took we great minds think alike because Teresa and I had been working on an activity testing local audiences on light pollution and one of the themes in the toolkit was understanding why dark skies are better for seeing the night sky and so this turns out there was also I well you can see it right there but the survey the solar system exploration research virtual institute community had been putting together this exact book which was very much like what we wanted to do it was written and edited by David Hurd and Cass Runyan and Joseph Minnifra and Ken our very own Ken so the four of them worked together to create this really cool tactile version of urban versus rural skies and we simply added those initial sheets you can use to help present it in the planetarium or museum so in the same way that we had those sheets the public facing sheets for the first activity we also had them for this one let's see and this was our original one that we went from city skies where there are very few stars in this case this is Orion for those of you who know this constellation to a suburban sky to a rural sky and how much more detail you can see how many more of these stars that you can see in a rural sky but this one so the book that is the light pollution book has not just Orion but it's in there so you can use it all year long in the northern hemisphere I think there's somebody who's got some noise coming through if one of y'all could help with that that'd be awesome so this was just a new write up using a very cool new resource that's also available so thank you so much David Hurd and team for creating this it's been a really fabulous resource so yeah but those are the basics for that I think I'm gonna let you go on to the next one Teresa which is the last of the three activities that we used yeah we're going through these pretty quick so again if you have questions just jump on and let us know and so legends in the sky is the one that's really about how humans have through the ages sat around the campfire looked at the sky and saw and saw the sky and made meaning in it so that's kind of the big takeaway we also have that constellations are made up of a group of stars that are form a pattern that's our that's a science standard and also it's a kind of astronomy from the Greeks or classical definition of constellation this activity expands that definition a little bit next slide so a couple of notes that I want to share and then I'll show you the image the activity a little bit on the other camera but one of the things that actually let me show you them first and then that'll make more sense it's still showing me let me switch to the other one and I have to take off my background okay great thank you so this is our big print sign has the same 30 font right and what we really want to encourage visitors to do is to think about why cultures around the world have had different sky legends and why why that's been important a lot of times people emphasize their local animals and the climate that they're in and so one of the constellations in Chile tells people to leave the desert and go up to the mountains during different times of the year so a little bit closer to the camera that would be helpful yes thank you so this is kind of this has both cited activity cited words and then also braille that you can feel underneath it don't know if I can a little bit lower we can't see the top of it thank you so there's I just well I'm just trying to show that there's like braille on the page and so you can feel these outlines of the constellations on the right and then that tells a little bit about the the idea behind the constellation but it also has the star field so that you can compare both the star fields and what each culture has made of that star field and so there's different ones that highlight different interpretations and for those of you in Tasmania I am so sorry we have used here the Big Dipper which is a northern hemisphere um asterism so the dube is the set of stars that I'm sorry this is going to be harder for southern hemisphere observers I apologize yeah unfortunately we had to use a use a constellation that was visible to the folks in the US because the kid is geared towards the US but um in the original interpreted legends we had constellations for the southern hemisphere so check that out and I'm going to switch over again I wanted to mention too that the the original activities are in both English and Spanish so that's helpful for those of us those of you in Chile and Spanish speaking countries too good point thank you and I also had so yeah let's get back to the some of the points that I wanted to make which is that we only have the shape of the constellation with a little bit of information we don't it's not our story to tell it's not our legend to tell so we don't have that part um and that's really important because each group of indigenous people have their own ideas about what's going on in the sky and that's why we call it legends we don't call it stories or fables because there's more to it than that a lot of different cultures have their ancestors up there or they as part of the large belief system um and so we want to respect indigenous knowledge and and we use that word legend also um as I was mentioning about constellations there's lots of other parts of the sky besides stars that um that different cultures use for example um again in the southern hemisphere there's like dark patches and light patches of both the Magellanic clouds the Colesack the things that are down in there in that section of the sky and so they make their sky patterns with the spaces in between the stars and the the the objects that they can see and so it's really about the location and the culture and the people and again that's one of the things we want to share is um um like um what you would know um like what I'm sorry let me just think about this first second because I had it here and I um can't access that but um we want to be able to have folks think about what's important to them and if if they know any sky legends they can share that with the group that they're at also um who would they honor with a place in the sky so that's going to be very um special and meaningful to the group that you're with the visitors um also in the um activity guide we have a really great um idea of the constellation which is that um Zion National Park is in Utah while the Sombrero Galaxy is in the constellation Virgo and um that and we also talk about how the classical 88 constellations that we use as roadmaps for the sky next slide questions I was hoping we would have about 10 minutes for this we only have five so I'm gonna um turn off the recording now and just that um we can see each other and if you want to turn on your camera you're welcome to do that and um Brian could you stop the recording