 Hello everyone. I'm Cindy Bank, I'm the Associate Director of the Program and Practical Policy Engagement and I'd like to recognize my colleague, Maryam Nagarin, who is on as well as my colleague, Rusty Hills, who's also on the call and I appreciate you joining us. We may have a few other students joining us for this Young Leaders in Public Service. And I am going to, speaking too much, I'm just going to turn it over to Andrea, our speaker, because I really want her to tell us about her journey and what she's been doing. And I've just met her and it's been a delight to meet you. And we're already planning a follow-up conversation. And after Andrea has done talking about herself a little bit, Rusty has graciously offered to moderate the Q&A, so hopefully we're going to have this real informal dialogue. So Andrea, thank you and welcome. So thanks for having me, Cindy, Rusty, and Maryam. Great conversation before this, looking forward to digging in a little bit deeper. I will briefly run through my background, but I just ask anyone when we get to question and answer, please don't hold back. I'll be 100% honest about everything because the experience is something that I like to share and I think everybody can learn from and if it encourages you to run for office, even better. So my story is a little non-traditional, I guess you could say, in that it was 2010 was my first stab at running for office. I, at the time, was working on my master's degree, so I was 23 years old, working on my master's degree, working at the diner that I grew up in a very small town in northern Macomb County, and I worked at a family diner for 10 plus years. So in between my master's and working part-time for a state senator, I was asking people if they want hash browns or American fries with their breakfast on the weekends. So I was trying to plan what my next step would be, my undergrad degree was in political science, my master's was public administration, but it was also when the economy was totally in the tank and it didn't look very promising here in Michigan, so I was looking at going elsewhere. And when I was assessing my resume, I realized the one area I felt short was campaign experience, so I'm like, all right, what can I do to put campaign experience on my resume? So I was like, Mom, I have this great idea, you should run for office, I should run your campaign, and if you win it would be great, but if you don't, I get the experience on the resume, we're good to go. So she's a township clerk in Richmond township, so a small township of less than 4,000 people. So I talked to her about this, and then her and my dad later came back a few hours later and they're like, you know, we think you should do it. And I'm like, you might be a little out of your mind, like I'm 23 years old, like still in school, how, how is this possibly going to work? Just give it a shot. So we went into it, never really expecting to be successful, but also I think people underestimate this too. When they wrote stories about my election, I was referred to as the waitress, right, not the fact that I had an undergrad and was working on a master's and working part time for a senator, it was the waitress turned legislator. And people underestimate how many people you talk to in a small town diner every day. So you really, you know what's going on in the community, you know what people care about. At the end of the day, I didn't want to leave Michigan. I love Michigan, it's been home for me forever. I wanted this place to be a place where I could raise a future family one day and find employment here myself. So I'm like, okay, we're going to channel this into our campaign message. And there are a few that are familiar with 2010 there was a pretty big Republican wave that was in our favor, but I had to get through a primary first, and my primary election. I ran against three established men in the community that I had grown up there my whole life I hadn't recognized their names they didn't sound familiar to me but they had careers they had like the perfect little political family that goes on a postcard. So, we went into it. We're like, okay, we'll just give it our all. I think our primary campaign budget was around $3,000. I pulled up my campaign literature, which we designed ourselves on Microsoft Word, and printed in black and white, because color printing there was no way we could afford that. I had a backyard barbecue, where I invited all of my customers, everyone from my church anyone I knew growing up. And I think we charged maybe $5 a person or $10 for the whole family and pitched him on this idea of me running for office. So, it was August 3 2010. And I won the primary election by 64 votes, which was, it wasn't we didn't get these results until like two o'clock in the morning but I was remembering like, okay, like we made it through a primary by the skins of our teeth like, we're going up against like, again, throughout the whole thing never thinking we were going to win. So, at that time, the person who lived in that seat or who currently had that seat was she was a Democrat, she'd only been there for two years. She was a teacher, but I'm like, all right, we're gonna see she had a war chest of campaign funds no doubt about that. And I did not have, I didn't have the resources to self invest in my campaign, but I knew I could work really hard. That's one thing my parents taught me growing up like you can, if you can outwork anyone it is just as equal as having those financial resources so we knocked doors nonstop like every day, all day and I remember back then and how things have changed. It was probably reflective of the times but so many houses and foreclosure and people that weren't there. And when I'm following the walk list through the through the district and that was eye opening in itself. But I think doing all of that initial like work. I don't want to pay off because on election night, we won't. And what I find kind of like looking back on it like the most surreal like I remember I feel like I fell asleep with the same smile I woke up with the next morning like my cheeks for sore and I'm like this is, this is real like, but your your term doesn't start till January. I was still in school and I still had bills to pay. So I was back at the diner. So what was funny was people were like, didn't you just get elected and like, yeah, but I still have bills to pay so yes I'm here to take your order, at least until January 1 and then we'll go from there so I went to the House of Representatives and my district was northern in Clare County. So this area over here. Great district love, like, it's not home to me anymore. I'm sorry, that would be my watch telling me where I'm at currently. I must have heard what I was talking about technology to so smart. So I served three terms in the House of Representatives. I was term limited when I was 29. And then those six years were incredible. There's really nothing, I think that can prepare you for that experience. You learn a lot about yourself you learn a lot about other people, you learn even more about how government works. And sometimes how it doesn't work, which is, which is what gives you that charge and feels you to want to do better. I was fortunate enough to chair the Natural Resource Committee for four years. A lot of people don't know the story behind that but I didn't request to chair committee. I'm someone who I never volunteer myself to do something, unless I feel fully competent and burst and like every aspect of it so I often need to be pushed in the pool. Even those that I report to today will often tell me like, you got to jump, you got to jump sometimes you got to take that leap and just go with it. So, I was put in a position where a lot of my colleagues had requested that position and I hadn't and I was put there for a reason by speaker bulger and that kind of set my career path to where it is today. So, after leaving the legislature I went to work for the Department of Natural Resources. So I worked for director Keith Craig is technically a governor appointee in that position here. I think we're considered unclassified or classified one of the two, where your, your position is not guaranteed. So you served at the pleasure of the director. And that was, that was phenomenal. I did a lot of work with natural resource outdoor creation, all that. So I got to work in the DNR's Detroit office. And this was shortly after the DNR I had assumed responsibility of Bell Isle. So I got to learn about parks and urban settings and the role that they play in communities and all that and it was just fascinating. And obviously I took, it was another two year job. So I was done at the end of 2018. I found a job for Michigan Trails and Greenways Alliance where I am at today, I started as like a contractor in that role doing kind of like what I did in the legislature, working with communities and bringing groups of people together to find consensus on projects, or hurting cats, as we like to call it. The skills that you develop in the legislature that you can it, you need that skill anywhere you go. I'm sure most of you could attest to. So, I really enjoyed that and then the executive director decided that he was going to retire. So I'm like, Okay, well, maybe I'll put my name in the hat for his job and I it was funny I had just come out of maternity leave with my first kid and started as executive director of a small nonprofit. This is February of 2020. And we all know what happened in March of 2020. So, it's been a roller coaster experience, quite a time to cut your teeth in the nonprofit sector. But it's, it's been wonderful. I love, I love everything about my job I love working with communities that still has that public service aspect in it that I really enjoy. I also serve on thing four or five boards in the community nonprofit boards, as well as my county parks and rec commission, because that's something I'm passionate about. When I got married, I moved to Oakland County. So I grew up with, I was very fortunate like 100 acre farm field in the backyard, open space everywhere. I didn't see my neighbors, I just look outside. And it's, it's different. So I've become dependent on public spaces for my, my open space in that that now fuels my, my passion in what I do with Michigan drills and Greenways Alliance. So, that's just the highlights. I'm happy to go into any details or expand further. It's, it's hard to summarize it all in such a short period of time but yeah, I'll be open and transparent so feel free to ask me anything I also in a new role I teach a class at Central Michigan University about campaigns, politics, elections and the Michigan legislature so it's been, it's been fun to have that connection. I believe rusty I think you are going to moderate question and answer. Andrea, we're so glad to have you. Thank you very much. Love hearing your story and how you got started. Amazing story, but it's one that's very applicable to everybody we have and for those of you that are on the whole point is to encourage dialogue so we want to hear from you we want to engage you and Andrea as well so whatever question you might have about her background what you'd like to do running for office what's it like in public service what are the highlights one of the highs the lows, we'd like to hear from you whatever the question is. Feel free to either raise your hand or type it in the chat box and I'll be happy to pass it along and I, I know we already have one question for you Andrea from the RSVPs. So, I'll start with that while everybody else sort of gets around what they'd like to ask you but but here's the first question. And this comes from Lindsay. How do you navigate promoting recreation and biking in a state like Michigan that relies so much on the car culture and the car industry. Very, it's a very good point it is something that we battle here right because I would surely say it's a battle as much as it is a balance. We're, we're proud of the fact that we are the auto capital like we put the world on wheels, F and say, well, people also ride two wheels to like it's not just for sometimes it's made powered it's not worse powered so it's. We work a lot with you'd be surprised to know that those that invest most in trails is actually Michigan Department of Transportation. So, it's very forward facing as outdoor recreation natural resources but having these other forms of active transportation are critical and ingrained in our Department of Transportation, which we generally just think of roads. So we're constantly reminding people that you know not everyone has access to a car in some rely on public transit and some maybe even ride on a bicycle or they need even the connection of a trail from either their community to where they're working to walk if they want to walk to get there so we need to be all encompassing of all modes of transportation. And I think we are very, very car focused. I like to think that we're moving a little right so as the. It's almost as the mentality towards electric vehicles is starting to change that being associated with the positive impacts that it has on the environment that opens the door for us to talk a little bit more to about the positive impacts that we have by non motorized vehicles. Well, thank you, and Lindsay good questions so thanks for getting us started and we've actually got quite a number of questions here so I'm just going to take them in order and the first one comes from one of our outstanding students who's also in my class. Christie, and her question to you is this, what do you wish you would have known going in that you think would have better prepared you to be a state representative. That's a good question. There's a lot of things that I wish I would have known going in. And as I referenced I was very much a textbook person I feel like when I'm going into something I don't know about I can read it and feel like I know it. I'm learning that that is not the case, especially not the case when you have children will let me tell you about that I think I read a million books on that I still don't know what I'm doing but figuring it out. The legislature is very, very similar in that regard. Every instance. I had to learn the hard way, such as relationships and with your colleagues and trust right like you just assume that the legislature can be lonely. I'll say this on it. It's very dog eat dog and it, it trains you to think of yourself and think about your district, and you could have a really good idea that you want to share with a colleague, and you can take that idea to them, and then they can turn it into their own bill the next day. And this happened to me and it's people that you think you can trust but it's almost like. I wouldn't say I would have wanted to go into the experience not trusting anyone, because it taught me it taught me a lot about working with people, and to value the relationships of like good trust and loyalty and all of that I think going into it with open eyes and also learning that people want to be heard. Often politicians, it's assumed and I'm sure you've heard a lot from me these first 28 minutes or so or 18 minutes but it's more important to listen to people and they just want to be heard than it is to talk, and it's okay if you don't have the answers like I had assumed I had to have the answers to everything but people value a response of you know I'm not sure but I'll get back to you just as much as they do the correct answer because then they they know you're taking the time to invest in what they're doing and you're coming back with something of substance. So, knowing that's okay to look for the answers to not have them also okay to change your mind. I've seen this a few times and I've, I learned my vote flipped on an education budget and I was known as a flip flopper. It, it didn't feel good. Like I got a tax for flipping my vote but I was doing what I felt was right. And while it feels uncomfortable, it is okay, it is okay to change. It's okay to change at any point in time because really the decisions that you're making, you're making the best decision you can with the information you have at that time, and you can gather more information and if you have the ability to go back and change it. You can do that as well. So, I feel like I have like a novel of lessons learned, like the hard way. But I think knowing that it's okay to change your mind and alter your position is probably a critical one, because I still know people to this day that are currently serving. You know, maybe they paint themselves into a corner, and they're not sure how to come out of it, but it's okay. It's all right. And it, it's all over eventually right very it feels very immediate and right now but it's, it'll, it'll pass. Sounds like there's a book there things I wish I'd known or lessons learned from the legislature. Well, good question. Alright, here's our here's our next one, also from an outstanding student and I know this because the students also in my class Jeffrey asks this question. Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today Andrea. My question. What were some of the challenges you faced running for office at such a young age. And how do you convince voters to support someone who may not have a tremendous amount of professional work experience. One of it's funny I actually Googled before this I wanted to see if any of the news stories at the time, we're still floating out there, and you'll know and one of them Yahoo, picked up a Detroit free press article I want to share with you and the Detroit news article, and in the article, they were interviewing people that I was waiting on in the restaurant, and the woman spoke or concern about me being young she had a son that was my age. And she doesn't think he could handle public office so how could I, but the, the upside to that is that in experience was also a gift in that I was moldable. And so that in a way and I didn't have this previous set of criteria that I felt I needed to abide by I was literally coming into it with fresh eyes and open mind and just trying to do what was best for the people of my district. So, I couldn't tell people I was older than I was they knew how old I was so there was no getting away from that so I just, I decided to own it, but youth and an experience was, it came at me all the time. I know you're right, but those are things I can't change about myself I can gain experience along the way but I cannot change how old I am so if that's all you can attack me on have at it because I can improve fun. I mean I'll get older over time, and I'll gain that experience but really just running with it and learning, you learn a lot about spinning and altering a message to tell your side of it. And that's what I told them I said I may be young but listen, I'm here for the right reasons this is what this is what I see as Michigan's future. I don't want you to have to take a plane to go visit your grandkids I want you to be able to keep them raise them have your families here. And I believe that resonated. I also told them I didn't want to leave the state. And I, it was looking like I would have to. So I could make the message resonate on that level as well. But you think an experience was the biggest thing I'll see if I can find that Yahoo link to. Okay, thank you. Our next question comes from another one of our outstanding students at the Ford school will also happens to be in the class, my class Justin asks, Andrea thanks so much for speaking with us today. I'm curious about the most challenging parts of running for office was anything extra difficult that you did not first expect, and was your family supportive of your run. Um, yes, I just put the link in the chat. Thank you. So, hardest parts of running for office. The lack of resources is always working against you when you're working with someone that has a lot of them, but like I said you can out work them in with enough messaging and direct voter contact it's possible. For me what was hard was I was opening with an adult that more immature than people of my age. I'm trying to figure out how to say that best but it was people are mean. Um, I mean there are a lot of really good and kind people out there, but in politics like you have to get some thick skin and not care and it, it took me a little bit to learn that I was like why does this man have so much hatred towards me to like right what he's writing in the comment section first off don't read the comment section don't read that just word of advice never read that. But it's. That was what I struggled with my family struggled with that more I think that I did. I had a pretty contentious office hours I held office hours regularly in district at a library, and I knew when I showed up to the parking lot and I really 20 people protesting outside that it was not going to be a good meeting and probably the longest half ever. And it was, but my mom was with me, and she had a very hard time with people being so. So cruel, really in. It was, they were expressing they were expressing their thought, but they also weren't willing to listen, and they were also making some pretty ridiculous assumptions versus actually getting to know me in my position on the issues. But through that experience, I mean you always remember how people make you feel. And my takeaway from that is in any situation, the second that you lose your temper, and you lose control you lose the argument. So, it, it molded how I then in those scenarios how I reacted. And I noticed the only thing I can control is my reaction to something, and I did not want to be like those people, and I didn't want anyone to feel like how they made me feel. So, from that I think I grew. But I mean it's hard. It's hard to sit there and get yelled at for an hour and a half, especially when you're only 23 and you're being yelled at by people that are twice your age and some. Yeah. And you mentioned about your family that the second question was how supportive was your family to your running for office. So my family, my immediate family was incredibly supportive. They hold the same political ideals as I do, but my extended family which I'm also really close to. I have some uncles who are like committee men in the way W and work for GM and their political ideals are a little bit different so they were supportive I think they liked that I was willing to get out there, regardless of what party I was affiliated with. So they appreciated someone's willingness to really just jump out there and do it. But at the end of the day we always have our issues that we disagree on, and we still do today, we banter back and forth all the time so immediate family 100% supportive they were always in my corner, always work in the polls, my mom knocked probably just as many doors as I did. So, it was great to have their support. Okay, another question from another one of our outstanding Ford school students in my class Sam asks this. I'm interested in how you found working with colleagues on both sides of the aisle at the state legislature, where they generally more flexible and cooperative, or were they more combative and partisan. Um, so, and I'm sure people say this all the time but it is, we work together more often than what you see in the newspapers right newspaper and media. They thrive on the drama and the rift between parties and we know that we're operating in hyperpartisan times right now. But what's being reported is like that very amplified little bit majority of the time, we're all willing to work together, all of the time, I will share that my closest colleagues were actually not from my own party they were from the other side of the aisle. And we just worked really, really well together so you find it's more of personalities than it is political ideologies that you know are invested in similar interests and you move the ball forward. Also recognizing that it is a game of chess and there is strategy involved and they probably recognize at the time too because I was in the party of majority that working with me would probably help further their agenda as well so I'm sure that played into it but I will say it is probably like 97% of the time. It was good, or dual professional relationships. I'm 3% of the time where people that I think held a grudge over the fact that when you beat an incumbent there are that incumbent has relationships in that chamber that you're coming into. I felt the same thing in 2012 when three of my close colleagues didn't come back. And did I have a grudge towards those three people who knocked them off at first I was, of course you're going to be upset. But then you have to give them again channeling the thought that I'm like I don't want this person to treat me like that person did. So I'm going to give them a benefit of the doubt get to know them. But they're all people, we're all people at the end of the day, like, I know it sounds funny to have a title and be elected and you think something comes with that but at the end of the day we're all human. So yeah, we work together way more than what what you see in the media. Thank you. By the way, everybody who's asked a question has responded thank you so I just want to make sure you see that. So follow ups from our students Christie asks this, or I'm sorry, Jeff asks this, how did campaigning change from your first race to your last race. Did you place more emphasis on digital advertising and social media, or did you stick with more of the traditional campaign tactics like knocking on doors phone banks, that sort of thing. So, my term was 2011 to my last campaign was in 2014 would have been my last election. So that was still a while ago the digital advertising. It wasn't as prolific as it is today, which I think is both a blessing and a curse right because there are so many negatives that that come with the ability to do that. So, the campaign relied heavily we did a lot of direct mail. And doorknock, I will, I will always say that door knocking. It's really funny because if you think about it if someone knocks on your door right now do you answer it, most of us don't right you're like no just just leave a note or you check your phone you're like if I want to go talk to them. Um, but when you do get to engage with a voter. They remember that because I remember that it would have been my last cycle of campaigning doors that I knocked like we remember when you came here back in 2010, and we're so grateful that you did. So while it feels like you're not having a huge impact that direct voter contact is really critical. Good to know. Thank you. Thank you. By the way, Christie said she just saw the article that you posted on in the chat thank you. And when you said hash browns are American fry she said I knew you were talking about Ken's because my parents are regulars at the haze location so you've already made a connection see Ken's country kitchen really really good breakfast if you're ever in the area. I'm getting hungry just listening to this as a matter of fact. So Justin asks the next question, do you have any plans to run for another office in the future. That's um, it's a, it's a good question right so I, I try to explain what this feeling is like when you run for office like I'm a big pro con list person before I make any big decision. So this time in 2010 when I was making that list on whether or not we should do this after my parents had encouraged me. I started seeing the path to yes, in the reasons why. So not just doing it for the sake of gaining that campaign experience which is what I wanted but I could see. I could see how it translated in that I could be a representative and I had that fire in the belly so to speak. After I got out of the legislature. It's funny it makes it sound like a sentence after I got out. Um, you, I started. I needed time to like cool off right because it's, it's six years of your running hard and fast and you're, you're moving on so many different issues that at that time I was like, you know, I, I don't know if I would want to get back into it. I will say, lately I have encountered issues where I have felt like, um, government feels broken. And this isn't necessarily at the federal level or the state level this to me right now is currently at a more local or county level. And I hate that feeling hate that feeling more than anything because I think a government's job is to serve people. So, while I don't think that fire in the belly is at that level where I'm ready to like jump back in. I will say that feeling is still there. Um, and if it continues to grow, then absolutely I think, I think I would, I don't know what and I don't know where and I would want to make sure that I've only lived in this current community that I'm in for five years in Oakland County. I still have a lot more to know and understand about this community before I word say yes I want to represent you in the legislature. Um, so all those different factors that come into place when making that decision but the one that seems to really amp that feeling up the most is when I feel like government's not doing its job. And I felt that pretty recently and it was, was not pretty I know my husband's like are you still talking about this and like yes, because I'm still mad about it. Well, good. Um, our next question comes from another one of our outstanding Ford students also in my class Elena writes this. Andrea, thank you for being here. I'd like to know what a typical day in your office looks like, and how do you balance between meeting the needs of your constituents with your own agenda or your political goals. So, um, a typical day. Sometimes I wonder was there a typical day it, it feels like that's another thing politics teaches you is um, I often feel too like my job is just putting out fires on a daily basis and sometimes that's what it can feel like in politics and that's what it feels like sometimes now in the nonprofit sector so I'm learning how to manage issues, right and figure out which ones deserve priority and how to address them. So a typical day would be coming into a session day in Lansing so Mondays and Fridays you're in district and then Tuesday Wednesday Thursday you're traditionally in Lansing, you have your committee meetings. I was very grateful I had the opportunity to serve on the leadership team. I was elected to a caucus position in my second term and in my third term. So, with that came like the internal politics right of working with the Republican caucus. Committee meetings as well as you have meetings with lobbyists you have constituents that do sometimes come to Lansing, and it's basically it's almost every half hour is something different, which is really like if I remember looking at you know, up until session. So I get to my office around maybe eight o'clock, start taking meetings at 839 and every half hour like you could discuss everything from like feral swine. That was an issue for a while dog fighting in Detroit that was another issue the Detroit bailout like the, the range of topics that you can cover in three, three straight hours of half hour meetings. You get a little bit of whiplash but it's also fun right because you're, you're, you're learning something new every time, but it also is a testament to what you, you're an inch deep and a mile wide on so many issues. That's one thing where I do miss that when I was in it at the time. I didn't think I liked it because I didn't feel like I could be an expert at anything, but now that I'm more kind of focused in the natural resource and trails. I don't dabble in this over here or I want to learn more about this. So, a typical day was usually a vast array of things. Meet with lobbyist, you go to your committee meetings, you go to session, and then you go home and balancing district with Lansing. Lansing can feel when you're there, right because that's kind of that's where the chess strategies really common coming into play and moving an agenda forward. It's very much inside baseball. So I always had to check myself if I was ever fired up about something in Lansing and be like, do my constituents back home even know this is going on. Are they familiar with this issue does this does this matter to them. And also I tried to be cognizant of the fact that my district, when I first started was only the base I want to say was around 52%. So, I went into it recognizing that while 52% may support me that 48% still deserves represent representation. So no matter what is always open minded always welcome to people to office hours and willing to work on any issues that matter to them, because it was my job to represent them, and I was just one constituent in my own district. So I couldn't really go there with my own agenda that wouldn't be fair. Although people do just wasn't me. Well Justin says thank you and also adds you have my support if you get that fire in your belly again so. Thanks. Yeah, there's one vote. Cindy, who's outstanding but not a student, she asks what lessons did you take from your elected office to help make you successful in your current role. I would say the biggest lesson is with every issue I try to see all sides of it. Before making a decision, and that has become so critical so in communities where we build trails. Most people love trails they love using them they like hiking and biking but there are some communities that don't they like to use trails but they don't want them in their community. So trying to understand that like while our mission is to advance the network of trails throughout the state of Michigan. That is the community opposed. If they have concerns those concerns need to be heard. And is there anything that we can do to address or alleviate those concerns versus just going into a community and say we want to put a trail here. And this is why. So it's taught me to step back and look at all sides of it and try to find common ground and usually that common ground, while it feels uncomfortable and like nobody's getting what they want. And that's actually when the best product comes out. So that was a lesson I learned in the legislature that I often carry with me today, trying to see things from all perspectives and take all concerns into consideration. Good. Thank you. So we've got a lot. Malak Badun asks this question. Actually, it's a two parter. The first is, what was the most rewarding part of being an elected official. And then the second is, did you find it harder as a female and Lansing than your male colleagues. Okay, two great questions. Um, what did I find most rewarding. Yeah, I think it was, it was the wins for the district right like at the end of the day. No matter what your career is you have to take time to celebrate the small wins right because that's what keeps you coming back in fueled and what you're doing. And it was some things as simple as like when I said government doesn't work, we had a woman who was on government assistance and the state agency that she was dealing with had just lost her file. So her assistance was cut off just before the holidays because that file was just not there anymore, which to me is unacceptable right like how does that just happen like there's someone who is dependent on something in a critical time and all of a sudden this goes missing and you don't have an answer for you need to find her answer and you need to you need to write this wrong. So it was instances like that, that I, I felt like I was making a difference, I felt like I was able to take her issue to directly to the source and help address it because we know we all know what it's like to have to talk to like an automated phone system and all these options and not get anywhere and who has the time to do that. So when we could make those connections for residents that always felt good, it always felt like we were we were doing what we should be doing. And then the second part was was it harder for you as a woman in Lansing than for your male colleagues in the legislature. Um, I don't know if I would say it was harder or if it was just, it's, it's different, right. And we, I think women still experience this today. I myself still battle it like I get very, very frustrated like after having my first child I was like you know, men don't have to go on maternity leave they don't have to take eight to 12 weeks off and worry about still being part of the game when they get back like it's being a woman comes with a separate set of obstacles that I by all means I think we are definitely more than able to get over those obstacles. We just have to navigate them a little differently. And do I think it's easier or harder I think it's, it's just different. Did you experience sexism. I mean, what was your experience in Lansing with that. So, um, I'd be I'd be lying if I said that I didn't you do you get an even being young you get comments. Quite often I so my way of dealing with that is I equate people's comments to their intellect. And I'm like wow, if you're really going to say that what does that say about you and I'm like, you're probably not going to be my go to for anything so that's my own, my own internal way of dealing with it I'm like, think before you speak people but did I ever take offense to any of it. I think because I would just equate it to. Oh it's not that they don't know better it's just that they are choosing to say that which to me I'm like, maybe they're just not that not that bright. But, I mean, yes, it exists. It is there I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. And I think how people choose to deal with it. If you have to choose what works best for you in that situation that's what works best for me. I equate it to their intellect and then came to the conclusion that they're not very smart. Good. Good for you. Justin has a follow up question. You know, it's a good one. Was there ever a time when you had to vote against your conscience. And if so how, how did you end up making the decision on which way to vote. That is a good, a really good question so I'm voting your conscience and voting your constituents are like they were two of those. So constitutional, how does it feel with the conscience and what is your constituents think like the guiding three C's for decisions that you make on votes. I, there are still a couple of decisions that I wonder if I would do, I know I would do them differently today. So I will say at that time, I voted my conscience, do I think my conscience has changed. Now being older experiences that I've directly encountered myself on just different life experiences. So at that time, it felt right. If I would go back today would probably do it differently. Okay. We're, as I said, every everyone that's put a question has responded with a thank you so you're getting great reviews from from all the questioners and all the students. I appreciate that. Tell me about the role of lobbyists, you know people think, you know, big bad always precedes lobbyists like the big bad lobbyists. Are they really as bad as people think did they help you at all in terms of dealing with issues or understanding issues, particularly with term limits where you know you're coming in, as you know particularly given your age right where you're coming in at a young age, where they helpful to you explain the reaction or your interaction with lobbyists in the land. So I do think lobbyists have a bad reputation. I think a few bad ones kind of ruin it for the rest. People have a right to petition their government right and that's that is often done in the form of lobbying. You know, you kind of found lobbyists to be resources, right because I just represent. They don't just represent like when you think of like, maybe like the NRA lobbyist or the humane society the US lobbyist or these these larger politically amplified scenarios you represent nonprofit, and who maybe are just representing your, your county or your local government may even have lobbyists in Lansing and that's important, because those voices need to be heard in those lobbyists know how to get to their legislators how to navigate the process. And they're, they're a tool, they are a tool that I think is critical to the function of democracy and people being involved I mean, by all means, if you have an issue you are always welcome to go and testify in front of committee. But lobbyists often know when to schedule the meetings with the legislators how to help influence the way bills are written and like I said, while you have like the big tobacco lobbyists and you have all those other ones, majority of the ones up there represent really good clients who see the value of having that voice and part of the process. And in terms of, yeah, sometimes you do you lean on people who have had those relationships for 1020 years with different organizations. So I serve on the Energy Committee my last term. And if there is any topic area that is so fascinating but so complicated and in depth, I had to lean on a lot of people with the expertise that I knew I would not be able to gain in two years. So I would have study sessions with different folks saying hey can you give me like the 101 version of this or give me the cliff notes or what do I need to know and a lot of times, legislation has gone through a cycle before. Right, so some issues aren't new. They're just being like refreshed and taken a different approach in learning the history is just as important as learning the issue and learning how we got here today. And why this is being proposed and maybe why that didn't solution, why it didn't work out in the past, why it might work out. So, all of those different scenarios. Those that lobby on behalf of associations are different groups and whatnot. They all bring an important layer to the conversation. Miriam raises a point that I want to make sure everybody knows and this this is designed to be a dialogue so even if you've already asked one question feel free to ask another one. Andrea is with us until 1230 and so she's open to responding to anything you might have whatever it may be about, you know, running for office serving and government. Like, so feel free to keep those, you know, questions coming. One question I wanted to just shoot your way, Andrea's, you know, everybody thinks that money, money talks and politics, and, you know, there have been some stories in the papers recently because, you know, in health care which is such a complicated topic. Some firms, you know, provide a lot of campaign contributions on both sides of the aisle. Same is true on the energy front also a complicated issue which you just talked about telecommunications is a very, very thorny thicket to sort of wade through. How does that work to, you know, people outside always think that if you get a contribution then that that means you're sort of bought and paid for. Can you explain that process. If you receive a contribution first off there are so many filing requirements right when you receive those dollars both from those giving those dollars and to those that are accepting those dollars. I always do I result to in a lot of issues like follow the money, follow the money see where it's going who they're supporting it can usually lead you to an agenda, but I will also share with you that I have taken people's money not people with businesses and I've also been against them and there's, there's something about that that almost like it. It just reinforces the fact that you are not beholden to an individual just because they are supporting your cause because granted an issue may come up and they may have been a prime or a contributor of years in the past but you might think differently about it and I was always a strong believer that if it was somebody I had worked with before. And I was generally in sync with them but I am this one I just couldn't get there I just let him know that I just flat out told them listen I can't get here and here are my reasons why. And I mean you technically you don't even know them and explanation, you don't, it's not quid pro quo it's not this in exchange for that it is, you're investing in this candidate in this campaign. You don't know what they're going to vote on or how. So it's a risk that they take but I think as long as you are clear, and you communicate you communicate your thoughts and your concerns and all of that. I would say we we just discussed this in my class as well I had them write a paper on whether or not people should or shouldn't take back dollars and I'm interested to read what their findings are out of all of this but I think more so than not similar to the question about some Republicans working together on both sides of the aisle people I are not bought and paid for. Good to know. One of the students says, I met you with the Michigan Association of Insurance agents, Scott Hummel a while back, and the student says you were fantastic so. And then. Yeah. And then. Also, your predictions or comments on the upcoming gubernatorial race in Michigan in 2022. What do you think, or 2024 I should say. 2022. It's funny because I always ask my guest speakers list to and I'm always fascinated by what they have to say. I don't know. I'm a dog. Um, so I think the governor is in an interesting position I think COVID. COVID, I think is still going to be a very prevalent issue and how things were handled. I also, um, I don't feel like we necessarily have like a super super strong contender yet and I know there's still time. But, um, and also with redistricting like what is going on redistricting just anybody know what are those maps going to be finalized I know if I were currently sitting in office, and I didn't know what my district looked like next year I would probably be a little concerned and a little upset with that so there's a lot of factors out there. I will say I feel like I always get my hopes up. But um, no, I think anything's possible I think really sense, since the Trump election in what 2016 boy has that just rocked everyone's world as far as predictions right nobody imagined or saw or thought that would possibly happen and our polls accurate I think we're, I think we should be taking note of all of these election cycles and results because it has shaken up everything so my predictions for 2022. I, I think I, I don't know. I don't know because so much can change since then but I will tell you what I'll be watching it. You mentioned redistricting talked with just a minute about that because in the past it was always done by the political, the politicians right. Whoever was in the majority and then you know if there was split government it generally ended up in the courts. Now there's been a different system in place because of the voters, voting on an initiative. Give us your thoughts on that. One of the politicians was that ballot initiative which I will be transparent with you I did not vote for it. I think we're seeing an interesting process play out to my understanding, maybe this process works in California I don't know if it's I mean not everything that works in California is going to work in Michigan it's going to work, our state comes with its own unique set of characteristics that maybe make any issue, a little more complex. I would be interested to see if the maps are actually totally done and finalized like by the end of the year. I, as a product of redistricting I was drawn out of my district in the last round of redistricting. So, they moved, and I say my district lines as if it was really my district but the district that I had the privilege of serving. They drew me out of it by like a half mile. I'm like you could just move that line just a half mile, which is fine. I was living with my parents so I tell people that you know what, the Republican Party kicked me out of my parents house before my parents did. But it's okay, because I just moved right down the road and lived in a farmhouse it was fantastic. So, I think redistricting. It's, it's a unique animal and this whole commission and how this process is playing out I will say my students did did give pretty good feedback from the meeting that was held on campus that they felt it seemed like a very fair process and that those serving on the commission knew what they were talking about and what they were doing. I know that there are laws that stipulate rules that govern redistricting and things that you need to be mindful of, but those laws are fair, and I hope people are happy with them. We're getting close to the end but here's one last question from one of our students Elena asks, can you talk about some of the quantitative skills or policy tools that have been most helpful to you in public office. So, there's kind of a multi, I have multi answers to that question on metrics metrics are always key with everything I think having numbers and being able to show hard data and how those metrics can change transform whether it be for good or better. I hope that that furthers a narrative. It also helps you communicate a message regarding policy back in your district. Policy and Lansing is different than how you may approach policy in your district in Lansing. People usually are very, very familiar with with the details and the nuances. And to be honest people back home that probably bores them to death but you can't you can't blame them there so finding ways to talk about policy in a way that resonate with a diverse audience I think is is critical. So I think communication and metrics are really, really key factors but numbers, numbers, numbers don't lie, and there's fuzzy math out there we know that but yeah if you can if you can get the numbers to support any of your policy decisions I think that's usually helpful, most helpful. Was it was was there an organization that was that people look to to kind of give unbiased advice or alternatively within each caucus where there are certain people that were mentors on particular issues that would you look to for guidance. Yes, so the House and the Senate both have fiscal agencies which are nonpartisan positions they're the people that work behind the scenes to really investigate like the impacts of fiscal policy in that regard. There are granted each party has their own policy staff. But if you look at the years that a person has been there and involved in that policy regardless of which party they're with. You can always go I like to call them like the institutional pillars that you want to go to because they know the ins and outs they've been there the longest and they've examined it so regardless of which party they reside in. If someone has been around the block of time or two with an issue they're the person the expert that you want to talk to about the issues. Alright, Miriam I think we're we're getting to the close maybe I should just ask if the any final thoughts or last words or lessons that you'd like to leave the students before we wrap it up today. I will probably just say, if you're thinking about a career and policy or politics well first off policy is everywhere so don't just assume that it has to be politics to be associated with policy. Policy and politics for that matter are in every single profession, I am convinced it is there so it's a skill set that is applicable no matter where you go. Policy to me is fascinating the ability to to change it work on it any effect if any of you are considering running for office. I encourage it the experience in itself is worth it. You'll, I think you'll come out of it with a really really strong appreciation for both government and people. It's always more good than there is bad out there so I think, I think you would learn that I think you'd appreciate it. If there is ever anything that I can help with if you're thinking about it. I'll share my contact information with you feel free call text email granted my experience is it's like 10 years old now right it's a little stale but if you just want someone to offer honest feedback or kick some ideas around please don't don't hesitate to reach out. That's what I'm here for. Very good. Wow. Rusty, first of all, thank you for bringing Andrea to us. Andrea, this has been so fabulous, and you touched on so many things that I think our students are interested in that I know I'm interested in I used to joke about the fact that I had a, I had a scarlet L for being a lobbyist. Thank you for pointing out how important my last point three years in DC I was the University of Michigan lobbyist so we, you know, we had to bring a lot of important information to members of Congress. And that last question not the last few things but about the quantitative also just talking about the fact how important quantitative and qualitative. But points are in making and changing policy just really appreciate all your incredible insight. And I'm looking forward to our follow up conversation I'm going to send you an email and get something on the calendar and just want to wish everybody or ask everybody to join me in Thank you, Andrea. Thank you. I know that there are people behind those names. Great questions today to from the students. Fabulous questions. This was one of the best interactive sessions we've had so thank you very much. Thank you. Try and go enjoy some of the sunshine. Yeah, right. Thanks for joining us Andrea. Thank you.