 Mae rhan fydd pethau ar gyfer y bilynol o'u sesion. Felly, mae'n rhan fydd pethau i gynhyrchu, mae fydd pethau gynhyrchu. Felly, mae'r rhan fydd pethau o'u sesion eich oedden nhw mae ein bydd pethau o agenda yng Nghrifffordiaeth 1390 o'r etymol o'r hanfodol o gyllid ddiwedd. Mae'r ddif Ruth Cymru yn ynion i gyfer ddych chi wedi wnawn gan y bydd i gyfer ddych chi a��受u supportive in the debate to press requests to speak buttons now. I call on Richard Lochhead to open the debate. Around seven minutes, please, Mr Lochhead. I start by thanking members across all the parties for signing the motion that we're debating just now. In March of this year, Frank White, a much-loved husband, father and grandfather lost his life in a tragic boating accident in the approaches to the beautiful F popul by Whon many of his time sailing. The one public tributes paid to him illustrate how Mr White was a much-loved and popular member of the Finthorn community. Marian White and her granddaughter Eila are in the gallery today, and I know I speak for all of Parliament by reiterating our heartfelt condolences to them and their family. The day after being informed of Mr White's tragic and sudden death, Mrs White and members of her family were taken to formally identify his body at the mortuary at the former Spiny hospital in Elgin, used by Police Scotland. What the family experienced there, appalled them and made an already harrowing experience much, much worse. The process was insensitive to the needs of bereaved families. Mrs White said, just two steps for us to be inside that awful place, and there was my husband just lying, wrapped in a blanket, and throw on a trolley. No warning of what we were entering, no place, no time for composure, just there he was. The facilities were run down and inadequate. Mrs White's daughter Natalie said, Spiny can only be described as a derelict collection of buildings sitting on waste ground, overgrown with weeds and anadysmol state of repair. I suffered from MS and was walking with the aid of a stick that day, but there was nowhere for me to sit and rest. I ended up sitting on the ground outside. It was extremely distressing. As other daughter Sharon said, it looked like a disused outbuilding we were being taken to, not somewhere our loved one would be. There was no opportunity to say goodbye to Dad, so our last image of seeing him is in a little used, unkempt building in urgent need of replacement. The whole experience was traumatic for a recently bereaved family and failed to adequately respect the dignity of their loved one. I know that the minister will want to get to the bottom of how that was allowed to happen. I am sure that we can all agree that what the White family were put through is wholly unacceptable. Mrs White tells me that after reading an unrelated news article about the general run-down state of the former hospital and knowing what she had been put through, she decided to act, so the family decided to speak out. As soon as they conveyed to the authorities and Murray their experience, the NHS, the Murray Council and Police Scotland all agreed that this was unacceptable, NHS Grampian apologised. As a result, Spiny is no longer used for family viewing. Dr Gray's hospital in Elgin has been used on a temporary basis, and Mrs White is now working with the mortuary for Murray planning group on longer-term solutions. At this point, Mrs White found it very difficult to identify who was ultimately responsible for Spiny mortuary. Likewise, I was struck by the opaque lines of responsibility. In the case of Spiny, we had to speak to the Murray Council, NHS and Police Scotland. I urged the minister to address this confusion so that the public and the rest of us clearly understand who is in charge of police and hospital mortuary facilities. There is absolutely no doubt that many families have gone through the same experiences as the White family. I have had other constituents who have since told me that they were similarly affected by the visit to Spiny mortuary, but it is down to the determination of the White family to do something about that that action is now being taken. The White family are also aware that it is a similar situation in other parts of Scotland. They do not want any other family to go through what they went through anywhere. That is the message from this debate, and that is why Mrs White and her daughter Sharon and Natalie were very grateful to the more than a dozen MSPs across the parties that took time to speak to them when they visited Parliament earlier this month. What came to light and Murray is now a national issue, and their campaigns are attracting support from the public and from professionals. I am very grateful to Stuart Fleming, professor of cellular and molecular pathology and also director of the Centre of Forensic and Legal Medicine at the University of Dundee, because he contacted myself and the White family to support their campaign. He has responsibility for death investigations in Tayside, Fife and Forth Valley and has built new mortuaries in Dundee, Cercoddy and Larbert. Professor Fleming has produced a list of standards required for the deceased, the bereaved and the professionals. I do not have time to go through them, but I want to refer to the statement that he provided. He says that I support fully the campaign from the improvement and standards of mortuary provision across Scotland. A mortuary should be a continuation of the delivery of the highest possible quality of care for the people of Scotland even after death. A mortuary should ensure dignity and respect for the deceased, comfort and support for bereaved relatives and friends and be a suitable working environment for professionals involved in the care of the deceased and the investigation of death. Unfortunately, there is considerable variation in the quality of mortuary provision across the country. He says that, while there are examples of excellent provision, there are considerable numbers of mortuaries requiring significant improvement. As we can see, the white families experienced in Murray does highlight a national issue. I welcome the minister's recent words of comfort for the white family and for meeting them recently, for listening to their case and for promising to act. It is welcome that ministers have instructed the NHS Scottish Property Advisory Group to look into the issues. As well as having to agree following the sudden loss of a loved one, the family have found themselves feeling it necessary to campaign, and they continue to urge people to contact them via www.mortuaryformurray.com. My constituents have found themselves in the spotlight giving media interviews and visiting parliaments, but none of us should forget what they have been through the past few months. That only strengthens their admiration and respect for the white family. They wish to ensure dignity for the deceased and that people do not endure additional distress during the formal identification of a loved one. The white family's campaign has achieved so much so far. They have achieved changes in Murray, but now they want to see all mortuaries in Scotland inspected and steps taken were necessary to ensure that they all meet an agreed set of 21st century standards that are monitored and complied with, both in terms of the facilities and the process of identification. In line with what we would expect in a compassionate society. I look forward to the minister's response to the issues that were raised and to joining me and other members from across the parties today in paying tribute to the white family's tenacity and determination to ensure that no other bereave family goes through what they went through at Spiney mortuary. We now move to the open session. Speeches have around four minutes, please. I call Douglas Ross to be followed by Colin Smyth. I congratulate Richard Lochhead for securing today's debate and I agree wholeheartedly with 100 per cent of his speech. I also welcome Mary Ann White and her granddaughter Isla Robertson from Forrest academy down to Parliament today, the second time the family has been down here in recent weeks. Through their personal tragedy and the experience that they have gone through, the strength that the family has shown in trying to better the facilities in mortuaries across Scotland is highly commendable. I met Mary Ann last Friday in Elgin and it was exactly five months to the day since Frank had tragically died. I just wrote down a couple of words that I read about him in the press coverage following his death. He was a beloved boat builder, a jovial character who liked a good yarn. The family miss Frank understandably, but through his death and their campaign since then, hopefully we can see improvements for other families who do not have to go through a number of the issues that Richard Lochhead mentioned in his speech. I do not want to reiterate everything that he said about the experience that the family, Mary Ann, Sharon and Natalie went through, but Spiney mortuary could never be considered in 2016 to be fit for purpose. It was built, Spiney, in 1933. It was closed by the NHS 12 years ago, so why did we as a local authority, as a police force and an NHS, think that it was right in this day and age to still be using it as a mortuary? Things have changed and moved on very quickly since the incident five months ago, but there are temporary measures in place for viewing at Dr Gray's, but the storage of bodies still continues at Spiney. I have serious concerns about the security of the facility at Spiney. That has been raised locally in the press, and I think that we need to ensure that the security is improved at Spiney and that we do not just look at the temporary replacement at Dr Gray's, but we look for a long-term replacement. Dr Gray's in itself is not ideal. Bodies have to be moved across the car park into the viewing gallery at the other side of the campus at Dr Gray's. That is not suitable for anyone and we have to ensure that a better process can take place. I would also like the minister to perhaps answer during her summing up where the responsibility lies, as Richard Lochhead said. Is it the NHS? Is it the police? Is it the local authorities? Should we have an overarching governing body for all the mortuaries in Scotland to ensure that people know that, if there is an issue, they go to the NHS, or to the police, or to the local authority? At the moment, there is too much confusion on this very emotive and personal issue, and I think that we need further information on it. I would also like to know why there is no inspectorate of mortuary facilities. If there was, Spiney would never have been used. It takes a personal tragedy. It takes a campaigning family to bring about change rather than addressing the concerns that there clearly were at Spiney, by someone going in and checking the facilities. We know that there are very good examples across Scotland, but there are very bad examples. Murray has been highlighted as a bad example, but it is not alone. I think that we need to do more to ensure that we are inspecting the facilities to ensure that this is not allowed to happen again. Marion asked me to ensure that I mentioned the website that Richard Lochhead has already mentioned. The mortuaryformurray.gmail.com email address is where they want to get the information coming into. They want to hear from more families across Scotland to ensure that we get this right across the country. Richard Lochhead has also quoted from Stuart Fleming, but I will just finish by reiterating a quote that Professor Fleming said. A mortuary should ensure dignity and respect for the deceased, comfort and support for bereaved relatives and friends, and be a suitable working environment for professionals involved in the care of the deceased and the investigation of a death. Through the white family's experiences following this personal tragedy, we can only hope that that standard, written by Professor Fleming, can be replicated across Scotland and therefore their campaign will have made a big difference, not only in Moray, but throughout our country. I commend them for everything that they have done. Colin Smyth, we followed by Marie Todd. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. On behalf of the Labour team, I commend Richard Lochhead for bringing this matter to the attention of Parliament through his motion and also through today's debate. I also express my condolences to the family of Mr White in the gallery today for their loss and undue distress that they faced as a result of the condition of spiny mortuary. Nobody should have to go through such an experience, and I praise the family for the work that they have undertaken at such a distress in time to try to secure changes to the standards of mortaries so that other families in the future do not suffer a similar heroin experience. Since becoming a member of this Parliament, I have had the privilege of working closely with healthcare and social care professionals who dedicate their working lives to ensuring the comfort and dignity of those that they care for. However, compassion does not stop at the end of somebody's life. Mortuaries and post-mortem facilities obviously serve a practical function, but they are also, for some, the last place where they see their loved ones and, as such, hold a unique place in a person's grieving process. It is imperative that conditions of mortuaries are such that the dignity of the deceased is upheld and the distress that families face is minimised. That was not the case for the White family, but, if anything positive can come from their experience, and indeed, as Mrs White told the BBC, it seems from the experience of other families and other parts of Scotland, it is the fact that this story has brought to her attention the shocking fact that there is currently no specific inspection regime and no guidelines for inspections of mortuaries in Scotland. As members will be aware, under the Public Health Except for Scotland Act 2008, mortuaries can be provided by local authorities, by health boards or a combination of the two bodies. Within the standards for the management of hospital post-mortem examination, there exist standards for hospital staff supporting bereaved families. Specifically, the standards state that the staff working within the facilities must ensure that the deceased and the people who have been bereaved are treated with dignity, respect and, in accordance with their wishes. Although such standards are welcome, they appear only specific to hospital post-mortems and not across the board of mortuary provision. That needs to change. We need to see standards for all mortuaries that treat the deceased and their families with dignity and also take into account factors such as the faith, cultural values and the beliefs of both the deceased and the bereaved. The Scottish Health planning note 20 provides particular guidance on the elements that should be considered in the building of mortuaries. Simple considerations such as ambient, lighter and thoughtful decoration of waiting areas are suggested, and such additions to all mortuaries would be welcome. The problem at the moment is highlighted by the white family is that such standards are not enforceable in existing mortuaries, as expansion procedures do not exist and this cannot continue. I welcome the proposals from NHS Grampian seeking to improve spiny mortuary, but such improvements should not have to come on the back of the unacceptable personal experiences of those who have lost a loved one. Those that are fit for purpose must be the norm and minimum standards must be put in place and properly enforced. I therefore welcome the motion put forward by Richard Lochhead and echo the calls of the white family for regular inspections of mortuaries in every part of Scotland to ensure that minimum standards are enforced. I want to finish with the comments of Mrs White, which I read on the BBC website. She said that families who are suffering in difficult and often tragic circumstances should be thrown much more compassion than we found. It is vital that, at such a difficult time, families should have access to a mortuary that is fit for purpose, where families can feel comforted and where the deceased are treated with dignity and respect. I could not agree more and Mr Lochhead and the white family will have the full support of Labour in seeking to achieve just that. That is undoubtedly one of the rare occasions in politics in which all of us from all parties in the chamber can unite in common cause. We can unite in thanking Richard Lochhead, the constituency MSP for Murray, for securing this debate and for helping our constituents to bring this badly neglected issue to the attention of Parliament. We can unite in thanking Mrs White, her daughters and their wider family for their efforts to improve standards of mortuaries, not just in Murray, but throughout Scotland. Despite the fact that death is an inevitable part of life, the death of someone that we love is one of the toughest experiences that we ever go through, and sudden or unexpected death is particularly distressing. In the midst of normal everyday life, with no hint of warning, the worst possible thing happens in your world is turned upside down. The shock causes strong physical and emotional responses. It can be quite literally gut wrenching. It can feel unreal and it can be really hard to take in what is happening. Despite this fog in our brains, we create really vivid memories at this time, which become central to our experience of bereavement. I think that we can all agree that the experience of sudden or unexpected death is traumatic enough. The experience of making a formal identification should not add to the trauma. If the service is sensitive to the family's needs at this traumatic time, it can help turn the tide of profound grief and make the ordeal liveable and may even create some positive memories. I cannot be the only person who is shocked to hear about the poor-quality facilities that Mrs White and her family faced at Spiny Mortuary, when her husband Frank died in an accident earlier this year. All of us expect morturies to have certain minimum standards. All of us expect morturies to be maintained to a standard that demonstrates care, dignity and respect. All of us expect morturies to be sensitive to the needs of families and loved ones and to provide comfort. All of us expect families and loved ones to be provided with a place to recover and compose themselves before they have to face the outside world again. All of us, at the very least, would expect there to be toilet facilities. It is so disappointing that those facilities fell so far short of what we would expect in Murray. It is really pleasing that the action has already been taken by NHS Grampian to remedy the situation. I admire the White family for campaigning on the issue. I was pleased to have the opportunity to tell them so when I met them here in Parliament last month with Richard Lochhead. To face their situation and to come through it with a determination to ensure that other families will not have to face the same situation is a credit to them. That determination to turn a desperate experience into a positive change is truly inspirational and the knowledge that they have already affected change locally and nationally must bring some comfort. It is a fitting legacy to an undoubtedly much-loved husband, father and grandfather. Graham Simpson is the last of the open speeches. I also thank Richard Lochhead for bringing this issue to Parliament. A few of us feel comfortable when dealing with the practical aspects of saying a final farewell to our loved ones. It is important to have professional help at these sad times. We expect the process of preparing for burial or cremation to be dignified and undertaken with great care and respect. In most cases, that is what happens. We do not expect our loved ones to be subjected to a setting reminiscent of a shed in a backyard, but that is the experience of Mary Ann White after her husband Frank died in the sailing accident in May. He was taken to Spiny Mortuary in Elgin, where Mary Ann, whom I also had the pleasure of meeting when she came into Parliament recently, found him lying not in comfort and security but in dampness and squalor. Frank lay on a trolley in the middle of a darkened room, the only thing covering him a blanket and a throw. Mary Ann described the environment as being unkempt, run down and akin to an old garage. It is beyond belief that her husband should have been left in a room that appeared abandoned and unmaintained. No wonder she described herself as feeling desolate. The bereaved are already in great pain following a loss and it's appalling that this pain should be compounded unnecessarily by neglect from those in authority who should know better. We constantly fight for basic rights of the living but we're surely entitled to dignity in death too. That's not what this family encountered in Elgin. Every mortuary should have basic necessities in order to effectively comfort, console and care for the grieving. It would be wrong though to assume that this is a picture seen throughout Scotland. The truth is, we simply don't know. But this awful case has shone a light on an issue and it's incumbent I think, as others have already said, on the Government to instigate a review of mortuaries and their conditions throughout the country. Let's find out what the picture is nationwide and then let's have a plan to rectify any failings that we find. It's essential for mortuaries to provide high standards of care and an adequate setting in order to meet the needs of all of us. If mortuaries underperform or fail to do what's expected of them, then it's up to the Government to act and promote better standards. I'm rather like the idea of having an overarching body to deal with mortuaries. Having a nationwide inspection of mortuaries will not only highlight areas for improvement but will also evidence the hard work and commitment of professionals who are getting it right. Good practice must be highlighted, shared and celebrated. Ultimately improvements in practice can only benefit the most important people at their worst time, the deceased and their grieving loved ones. Mary Ann and her family have been brave to bring their campaign here. It's not an easy thing to put yourself in the spotlight. I thank them for doing so. Their experience may help others and it's up to us to make sure that that's the case. I, too, am grateful to Richard Lochhead for tabling that motion and for having the chance to respond on behalf of the Scottish Government. I'm also grateful for the contributions of all speakers this afternoon who spoke with a great deal of compassion. I know that everyone here is and was shocked by what the White family described they went. I know that that's how I felt when I heard about it from my family. I know that I was shocked by what they described they went. I know that that's how I felt when I heard about it from Richard Lochhead's correspondence and in the media. In the words of Richard Lochhead, the White family's experience was wholly unacceptable. It's hard to even begin to imagine how upsetting it is to deal with the loss of a loved one in such tragic unexpected circumstances as those that Mrs White found herself in. To have then been asked to visit the mortuary at Spiny hospital, so obviously, in such a poor, inappropriate condition, was completely unacceptable and compounded their upset, their trauma and their pain. I would like to pass on my sincerest condolences to Mrs White and her family in the gallery today and to say how sorry I was to hear of their experience. While I've already met the family and conveyed this privately, I very much welcome the opportunity to do so today in public. I appreciate the strength that has been shown by the family in discussing their concerns with me. It cannot have been easy, but their desire to make a difference shows remarkable courage and is a true inspiration. The Scottish Government issues guidance on mortuary facilities to all NHS health boards and fully expects all health boards to apply it. The guidance is clear in setting out requirements that viewings take place in appropriately serene, calming and dignified surroundings. Although that guidance was not adhered to in the White's case, it is troubling and deeply concerning and it leads to many questions. Before coming on to those questions, I should however firstly say that I am aware that NHS Grampian has been in regular contact with the White family in recent weeks and months and have taken steps to ensure that what will happen to Mrs White and her family will not happen to anyone else in the Grampian area in the future. The health board has given reassurance at that from this point onwards, all viewings will take place in the more appropriate surroundings at Dr Grace hospital and it will not ask any family to visit Spiny mortuary again. However, I will endeavour to look into the issues of security of provision raised by Douglas Ross and make sure that that is carefully looked at. Although it is positive that the health board has taken action in this case, the White family's experience does, as I mentioned a few moments ago, raise certain questions and one of which being the extent to which health boards all across Scotland are complying with the requirements that we have set out clearly. For that reason, as a first step upon hearing of the White's experience, I immediately wrote to all health boards in Scotland asking what they provide me with assurances that they are complying with the current guidance on mortuary provision. I further ask that, if they could not do this, that they give me a detailed plan on how they will rectify this as a matter of urgency. My officials and I will take care to scrutinise the responses that are received from the health boards and will press the boards to ensure that facilities are brought up to standard in any cases where they fall short. It will absolutely be a requirement that they do so as quickly as they can and that there will be no excuses. I have also instructed officials to begin a thorough review of the present guidance in order to ensure that they are fully up to date, sufficiently detailed and leave nothing to doubt. Once that review is completed, the renewed guidance will be issued to each health board chief executive in Scotland. Richard Lochhead. I thank the minister for giving way and, in terms of the review that she mentions, which I welcome, perhaps I can suggest that she may be able to find a way in which to involve Mary and White and Professor Fleming in that work as it moves forward. Eileen Campbell. I will briefly mention Professor Fleming, but I understand that my officials have made contact with Professor Fleming and absolutely will continue to engage with Mr Lochhead, the White family and anyone who shows a degree of expertise on this incredibly important issue. It is worth noting, however, that the questions, the cases raised go far beyond the matters of NHS health board compliance. There are other organisations that make use of mortuary facilities and are responsible for their operation and their upkeep. Those include large and diverse organisations such as the police, as well as each and every local authority in Scotland and, of course, the private sector. The diversity of organisations that are involved in the issue causes great complexity. It is also worth considering the fact that this is not simply about the fabric, the fixtures and the fittings of the mortuary facilities themselves. We also need to ensure that family members that are required to visit mortuaries are treated with thought, care and compassion by appropriately trained staff. It is because of those complexities that a cross-government approach is also required to review and to understand the landscape of provision and identify areas of action and always ensure that organisations that make use of those facilities do so with a duty of care at the forefront of their minds. I do not want to be in a position where families need to go through any further suffering and will use the experience of the White family to inform positive change and bring the clarity that Richard Lochhead mentioned in his opening remarks. For this reason, I can say today that I have begun working with other ministers and the Scottish Government in order to investigate mortuary provision in its entirety across Scotland to fully understand the concerns of Mr Lochhead and the White family and to agree a way forward and to take action. I will work in conjunction with the other ministers and Scottish Government officials to ensure that we make progress on this matter as quickly as possible because of its importance. I will be happy to report back to Mr Lochhead and, of course, the White family as that work continues. Indeed, Professor Fleming's input will also be crucial. To conclude, Presiding Officer, I would once again want to offer my deepest sympathies to Mrs White and her family and to say that I am very grateful for their efforts, along with those of Mr Lochhead, in bringing this matter to our attention and what is a very difficult time for them. I sincerely hope that they can take our action and future action as a tribute to their tenacity and that some small comfort in the intense period of grieving that they are going through in the fact that their efforts have made a lasting difference for everyone across Scotland. That concludes the debate in this meeting. It is suspended until 2.30 pm.