 Hi everyone! I'm Barry Silver with Common Good Vermont and welcome today to the first in our WorkLife Balance series. It's a webcast and it's called the Mindful Path to Workplace Productivity and this is the first event in a series that we're doing to promote greater well-being and balance in the nonprofit workplace. I'm joined today in the Channel 17 studios in Burlington by Productivity Trainer Porter Knight. So welcome Porter! Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for being here. So this is a live show and we have a number of individuals and organizations who are out there watching. So thank you for being here today and if you have questions you can call us and that is at 802-862-3966 or you could email director at commongoodvt.org and Morgan Webster will be happy to take your questions and comments. So Porter you were here last year and when you were here you focused on the individual and ways that we could get more done with less stress and I want to remind people that you can find that webcast actually on our website and it was the program was called calm within the storm finding your inner balance and I think you said there were five tips for being more productive as an individual. Yeah so today we can talk a little bit about the individual and also some things that an organization can do from a policy approach. Great. And so we'll augment some of what we discussed last year. Excellent. Yeah because we all know those of us who work for non-profit organizations and there's a lot of us and a lot of you out there. Non-profit workplaces can be really hectic stressful filled with distractions you know and we have a lot of demands. So how can we as both individuals and organizations sort of better manage all of that? I guess the first thing is to remind ourselves that it's certainly not something that just those of us who do non-profit work experience. So most people who work in the non-profit world have had jobs outside of the non-profit sector or have spouses or family members who do and it's an epidemic of our culture. So it's certainly not just something that we suffer in the non-profit world. So you know I think that the culture of busy is something that everybody's wrestling with. And so when you invited me today and suggested the title of sort of the mindful path to workplace productivity, I thought that was a great way to talk about it because I do teach workplace productivity in office organizing and it's not always the case that people expect that in talking about getting more done, being more productive, that I'm going to come at it from this angle of of a mindful practice. But I think that the mindful path is really an important part of that. So I thought we might want to talk a little bit about what mindfulness is and why that's relevant to us as individuals or organizations or in the workplace and then talk about productivity and what that is and you know what our hopes or dreams are in terms of being productive and then talk about things that we can do as I said as individuals or as an organization or an agency. Great. I think that sounds like a great thing because obviously we're talking about productivity then it's more than just making a list and checking off a million things to do and probably never getting to all of them. So how can we be more mindful and still be productive and effective in our workplaces? Well I think starting with a conversation about what productivity is is important and you know typically when people call me and they they express frustration about getting organized or they say I'm not as productive as I need to be, they're usually thinking about the list that gets longer at the end of the day instead of shorter or that sort of sinking feeling that you have at the end of the day where even though you you scramble faster and faster and faster trying to get to the end of the day before you rush home and scramble more that you haven't accomplished what you wanted to accomplish and so that's sort of like I'm never going to get to that feeling. Right and I think some of us have that at the beginning of the day just feeling that sense of overwhelm. Right like if it's happened on a regular basis then you end up feeling like you're starting the day and you're already behind and so you know how do you how do you make this a good productive day? So I usually ask people to think about well what does it mean to be productive to you? Like what are you talking about? And the first thing I want to do is normalize that as a professional organizer or as a productivity trainer it's not my expectation that you're going to get everything done. Like that's just not really what it's about. It's not about getting everything done. Right. It's about making choices about which things you're able to get done. So and what about I mean so making choices based on priority and prioritizing? So I don't usually use the language of prioritization. I think the prioritization is something that we do in a binary way like if I do this then I'm not doing that I've made a priority. So I don't need to sit and reflect on my prioritization but if I identify that I am going to do this and I'm not going to do that you've prioritized. So when I talk about sort of like defining the productivity and making choices it doesn't have to be an exercise of prioritization. It's an exercise of literally saying what am I going to do? And what informs that is partly what you're trying to achieve so that might be you know what it is that you're trying to create as an environment in your home or what is it that you're trying to produce as outcomes at work. So you know partly the goals that you're trying to accomplish drive the choice making what am I going to do and partly it's who you are like who do I want to be how do I want to be you know on this earth who am I and what's important to me and so you can call either of those things goal setting or identifying your intentions or your values or beliefs you can call that prioritization but I don't think that I think sometimes that language like well I need to prioritize my tasks it's just that's another thing to do. So rather than adding to your task of things to do let's just look at what you're trying to accomplish and where you're coming from and who you want to be and then let's make choices that are consistent or congruent connecting your beliefs and your values to your outcomes and your goals. So what if the choices that you're making aren't aligned with the expectations of your supervisor or the organization? Well interestingly this is where the segue to the mindful path to productivity is so valuable because the first thing about being mindful is just to notice and so being mindful is a practice of noticing and when you get in the habit or you're in the practice of noticing then you notice things like wow it looks like the choices I'm making are out of sync with what's being required in the workplace so then you ask your question what do I have to do and so what you need to do is probably have a conversation with your team or your supervisor and say here's what I'm noticing so it's it's not a judgment and I think that's one of the hallmarks of of a mindful practice is it's observation without judgment so paying attention to what's happening as well as how you're feeling and what else is going on in the world that noticing is it's a mindful practice and it's the first step to being more mindful in making choices that are going to bring you better into alignment with what you're trying to get done great I like the idea of um you know doing more with less judgment because I feel like we're struggling as you said this is a culture of busy and we're all struggling with feeling like there's so much to do and and never having enough time to do it all and I know personally that I often throw that back at myself exactly and I think that that's one of the challenges of a culture of busy is not only do we not accomplish what we set out to accomplish or what we felt we should accomplish but then we beat ourselves up about it and worse we assume that everybody else is judging us in the same harsh way we're judging ourselves when in fact it's it's kind of like you know what teenagers wear like they're so worried about what other people think but those people aren't noticing because they're worried about what they're wearing so it's I don't think that people are as judgmental of others as we believe them to be I think that we we do that more to ourselves and also part of the exercise of noticing without judging is to say well perhaps they are judging me that's on them so that you can still be who you are and make the choices you're making and if you're being judged huh that happened so it's not something that affects you or impacts you and so having that capacity to be aware and to separate your own experience from what you think is happening allows you to be more productive and the neuroscience behind this is really really clear so what happens when we think we're being judged or when we accuse ourselves of failing anything that we do where you know that we're approaching that negativity it moves the blood away from the thinking part of our brain and makes us less capable of performing in the moment and making the next decision and so all of that judging actually makes us worse at our productivity so being mindful gives us a chance to practice noticing without judgment which allows us to make choices that are appropriate for us and also lets us make better choices and do better work because we've got the blood in the right part of the brain in order to be effective so it's a real win there it's a real strong connection and a win you know individually and again organization right and and familiarly as well so you know if if you're moving through the world in a way where you feel centered and competent and like your choices are aligning with who you are and what you're trying to accomplish that sets a tone for the people you love that you know there's more acceptance and there's more possibility for people moving forward and making mistakes without being judged or condemned and then saying okay I made a mistake that action wasn't the one that is moving me in the direction I want to go huh now what so you know the sun comes up every day you have that chance every day to make new choices to take new actions so we're never just the sum total of all the things that happened before we're always evolving and moving forward that's the nature of life so um the other thing that I wanted to touch upon and hopefully this doesn't take us off on a tangent but we are talking about terms so we're talking about productivity but I also wanted to address the term work-life balance yeah and whether you know how you interpret that and whether that is setting us up for unrealistic expectations or I've heard you know there's work-life balance I've also heard the term work-life integration um and so I wanted to get your thoughts on that and then we can get maybe down into some more specifics about once we sort of have that awareness then what yeah I'm glad you brought that up because I think work-life balance is one of those phrases that's bandied about um in a very unmindful way so people are constantly lamenting that they don't have it or that they should have it or talking about skills that they need to build in order to achieve it and not spending much time reflecting on well what do I mean what is work-life balance what is it that I really want what is that goal right I'm trying to achieve again it's about establishing those goals and making choices right and so I think that the the fact that it's a very common phrase is good to the extent that it invites people to pay attention to what's going on at work what's going on at life and how those things intersect whatever that is whether that's balance or integration or overflow or who knows so the fact that we're de-hawking about it is good but I think that like the phrase time management once people sort of put it in a box then it's easy to set it aside and say that's either something I have or I don't have huh poor me um rather than saying well like what do I really do about that like what is time management well time management is really making choices about what you're going to do with your time you can't manage time and I think that this idea of work-life balance makes it sound like well if I had work-life balance everything would be fine as if it was just this thing that you could take like a pill instead of recognizing that time management is making choices that takes your time and attention and energy and it doesn't always go the way you planned and work-life balance is a practice of identifying you know where your boundaries are and what your intentions are and then aligning your actions with that and it doesn't always turn out the way you planned which means that it's an ongoing thing um so I think it's not bad that we're talking about it a lot but I would love to see people engaging with it more and personalizing it for themselves so that I could say well for me work-life balance means uh being home for dinner uh four out of five nights with my family so I'm not making it right or wrong every night I must be or I've failed but I'm saying this is my goal or my intention and somebody else might say well for me you know work-life balance means um you know having the flexibility in my work day to coach my kid's soccer team you know so I just want to encourage people to explore more what that means in terms of their goals and their personal intentions so that they can put a plan into action to feel like yes I've achieved this thing I'm calling work-life balance because I'm I'm being mindful of the actions I take during the course of the day to produce a result that I've identified as positive for me great well I wanted to encourage uh folks to give us a call a few of questions about work-life balance and uh productivity in the workplace and you can call 802-862-3966 or send an email to director at commongoodbt.org we'd love to hear from you um and where do we go from here so let's um talk a little bit more about I don't know does does all of this need to come from the top down in terms of last year I know you talked about uh creating uh caring culture or cultures of caring and I and that would be a workplace culture that encourages employees to take care of themselves and and the people that they work with and I'm just wondering whether that has to come from the top or if it's I don't think so I think I define culture as an amalgamation of our individual practices so I think that anytime that we blame the culture for something the first thing we need to do is identify well what are our personal and individual practices and then look for how we can change our practices to help move the culture in the direction that feels like it would be more healthy so I don't think it has to come from the top down I think it's great when an organization or a company does set priorities on this but I think it can also happen with individuals so I think as an individual you have latitude to make your own choices even if your organization or company is patently unsupportive or doesn't promote that and and seems to have a culture of busy and by making your own changes you may impact that but I think it's also possible for a company to say hey this is important to us and to start to look at it at various levels so yes certainly from the top down but from the middle levels or from the bottom up as well as people start to have conversations here so we can talk about so what are those things that you can do as an individual and what are those things that you can do as a company or an organization if you're in a role to to do that great and we did get a question about what can managers do and what policy changes can an organization make okay so let's start with that okay so I think one of the things that a leadership a person in a leadership role can do in a company is have a conversation about a socially conscious mission so when your mission statement is more holistic and it's broader than just producing the exact results that your company or your organization is set out to do then that starts to create expectation of a culture where we're looking more at the whole person so I think a socially conscious mission is one thing that people in a leadership position can do and it doesn't have to be that their mission is perfect that they're having the conversation already starts to set the tone so that would be the number one thing that I would say you know to a leader if they're in a position to have conversations about policy direction say to your peers at that leadership level let's have this conversation and then they can go lots of directions from there so it may be that what they want to do is be having you know brown bag lunches with employees talking about what is a holistic culture for our company or what would be a socially conscious element to our mission statement or how do we need to adapt our mission statement to support our employees thriving in their own personal growth and development but I think that when you look at it from a monetary standpoint uh there's no question from the economics that employees who are connected to their work so you know the word the buzzword is engagement but engagement is if nothing if not about having employees feel mindful and connected in the day-to-day choices that they have having employees feel that way means that they perform better and they're healthier and this has to do with the neuroscience of decision-making so when people are in a setting where they have the opportunity to make choices and they make choices that are aligned with the outcomes they're trying to achieve they move blood to the thinking part of the brain so they actually perform better at their work but that process of moving blood to the part of the brain that helps you think well produces neurotransmitters that actually make us feel better so as a result of being more thoughtful and performing better we're also actually feeling more satisfied in our job feeling more happy overall in our experience of the job so that means that you get more work out of those employees less absenteeism greater longevity and less healthcare ramifications so it's and there's no secret about that there's a lot of evidence that this is the case so companies do well financially if they invest in their employees to support them in being mindfully engaged so there's a lot of benefit there yeah and a lot of science behind it yeah and and so it ends up being actually a pretty easy sell for the company to say look this is a triple win all around for everyone yeah because mindfulness I mean people can think of that as a term that doesn't fit the workplace so it's uh it it's fascinating to hear about it and to think about it in this context and really yeah so so let's talk a little bit about like what a company can actually do right in a mindfulness culture because I think that the first thing everyone jumps to is like do we need to have meditation rooms and I'm all for that I think that's great but I think that that's sort of an instant assumption but when I talk about mindfulness in the workplace or you know what can a company do to actually enhance this beyond that sort of mission concept I think about permission to focus and what I mean by that is when a company creates an expectation that people have permission to focus on things then stuff can shift so examples of permission to focus would be to say when we have a meeting we don't bring our phones or any technology in so we have permission to focus they're saying okay team when we meet together as a team we want to be together as a team we're not going to have our phones you know and just having the phone there at all is instantly distraction it doesn't matter if it's upside down on the desk or it doesn't matter if it rings and you look at it and you go oh I'm not going to answer that like you're doing everybody a big favor right just don't even bring them in so that the idea is that when we meet as a team we're going to get as much done as quickly as we can we're going to focus on what we're trying to do and we're going to do it together in a relationship and a lot of what's important in a workplace setting and unless you work completely on your own in a silo of isolation is that connectedness and we lose that when we become less mindful of technology's pull so when you get to a meeting and you're there a couple minutes early what people typically do is they look at their phone right so you might have four out of the six people in the meeting but nobody's connecting they're just looking at their phone instead for that 90 seconds before the other two people get there if you were saying like hey how's your dog I heard your dog was getting old you know whatever and you talk about that now now we have connection and that creates the basis for trust which creates the basis for interactions and quality performance and innovation so you know that's an example of permission to focus and there's lots of ways that a company can do that it doesn't have to be an edict from the top saying we want you all to focus it can just be these simple little things like no phones in the meeting or saying as a company we have a company wide quiet hour where we don't have meetings like this is the hour that we don't have meetings so you take calls from outside people and and you do your work but in this one you know you have this one hour where we don't interrupt each other and we don't have meetings so we're saying we recognize that everybody has a lot of meetings but we want to create an environment where you have permission to focus on things so those are some examples of the permission to focus I think that's another thing that is it's very easy for a company to do if they think about right what's actually happening and if you ask the people within your organization you know what is the experience you have and they say I'm crazy busy I run from one meeting to the other and I never have time then you want to look at okay well how can we change that and I think um so screens are definitely an issue the other issue that I know we have here and probably a lot of organizations have is that there's no private space that we're all working in these big open spaces and and those are challenging places to focus in yeah and more challenging for some people than others I mean some people's can sort of get into something and it's easier for them once they're in they do tune it out and other people don't so when I talk to people about organizing like physical organizing one of the tenants is ground rules for shared space so you know if we're organizing an office that we share then we talk about this is your space this is my space this is our space and so you can have your style in your space but in our shared space you don't just sort of spill over so we have ground rules for shared space where do things belong how do they get put away so that's a classic tenant of organizing shared spaces can have ground rules so I think that we can do that same thing when we're talking about communication needs so if everybody works in a giant fishbowl then it's important as a team to have conversation about ground rules for shared space what does that look like and it might be that you say there's certain hours where we don't have conversations it might be that we say you're encouraged or allowed to have headphones noise silencing headphones when other people are having conversations it might be that you actually do an exercise where you practice what does it mean to use a quiet voice if you need to speak to a co-worker within that shared space because typically what happens when you have sort of an open space or a fishbowl type environment is that people talk in their normal tones and it's not that they mean to be disrespectful it's just it's normal that's what you do and so you can you can go through an exercise in your shared space where you lower your voice and lower your voice until you determine like what is the decibel that you can actually have a conversation with your peer and not be as valuable to others and then you need to practice it because what typically happens is people say yes we're going to use this quieter voice and they start having their conversation and then somebody else gets on the phone so it ramps up a little bit and it ramps up a little bit and then by noon we're all just loud again and we need to have an opportunity to say like wait quiet and everybody goes and we go back down and start over and it's just practice so shared rules for ground space can be ground rules for shared space can be headphones it can be you know signage on your desk that says I'm in my focus moment can you wait till 11 there's lots of options so when we're talking about policy and policy changes are we actually talking about just having these shared expectations or ground rules or are you really talking about having written policies that would be in the HR manual for example or or all of the above yeah I think all of the above and I think that there's not a one-size-fits-all so I think some organizations are going to say really we just need to have a conversation about this and that's going to work other organizations and I think partly it has to do with size but if you have a larger organization where you're not just a small team talking to each other then having it in writing is valuable because it's a way for us all to say yeah this is what we're buying into and we commit to and then also a way for you to you know bring new people in to that and say this this is part of our culture this is what we expect whereas in a smaller team it is done a little bit more organically so I don't think that it's right or wrong to do it one way or the other way I think some policies really are better written and I think that those policies so you know email processing policies I think are well to be written and rarely are so email is something that sort of crept up and now people you know they just hamster wheel on email all the time but they don't really have any real understanding of what the company's expectation is of them as it relates to being responsive through that particular communication medium so they do it all the time but they're not really doing it completely and it's never done and then they feel spread out and that's probably probably the biggest complaint that I hear when people want to hire me is I'm overwhelmed in email the hamster wheel is a great image because it just keeps on coming okay let's hamster wheel on to something else roll on to something else and also again give us a call if you've got questions 862 3966 do you want to segue and talk a little bit about some of the things an individual can do even in the absence of a company saying we want to change our culture I think that makes sense since we're all individuals and and and we've got a variety of organizations both large and small that are participating today so let's provide something for everybody so one of the things that I think is a missed opportunity is what I call seizing mindful moments and so we were talking about email and how that causes a lot of stress for people another thing that I find causes a lot of stress for folks is I call it the sort of the Microsoft wheel of meditation right so that buffering signal and people see that buffering signal and they're they're trying to get something done and then all of a sudden their computer goes into buffer and people get so upset and angry because they're they're trying to rush they're trying to get things done and then they hit that wall and I see that I call it the Microsoft wheel of meditation because I feel like that's one of those things it just happens you can't control it so that happened so if you create that as a flag or a trigger to say oh look I'm being invited now to just put myself back in my body and take a deep breath and you know the wheel is going to either stop or I'm going to need to shut down the computer and start over but this is what's going to have to happen so the that experience of saying again it's that noticing without judgment so instead of being instantly angry that you've been stopped in your technology progress but saying oh when this happens that's an opportunity for me to just get back in my skin and take a deep breath and I can't control that so I think that that it's an important part of having a positive experience of your day is taking those little triggers that make you crazy and turning it into something that can invite you back into your head and calm yourself down well it's interesting because we got a question about that that really ties perfectly into this you know what what do you recommend what do you recommend for organizations or individuals who feel weighed down by the news there's so much news and it's coming at us from all directions and from you know multiple channels and I think especially in the nonprofit sector as well because we often are caregivers and caretakers of the world and so it can feel very overwhelming and heavy so finding those mindful moments and opportunities and I think the mindful moments and then when you have the mindful moment the purpose of the mindful moment is to put you back in your skin so that you can then identify what can I do and I think that's a really important part of that transition so in order to feel productive we want to take action and taking action is a really valuable part of the mindfulness process so you say I'm here and now what so any opportunity you can have to put yourself back in your skin so that you can make that next choice is really valuable and I think in the face of you know an onslaught of news or absence of resources or whatever the things are that are making people start to feel sort of frantic or panicked to say okay here we are now what what can I do because there's always something that you can do and bringing yourself back to focusing on your capacity to act is incredibly empowering and the reason it feels so good is because of the neuroscience we talked about where it moves the blood and the neurotransmitters it produces but when we start to feel overwhelmed we start to feel out of control we start to feel a victim of circumstance and to feel I can never change that and so that that sort of abdication of your capacity to act that victimhood that's a complete opposite neuroscience blood's going away from the thinking part and it's producing adrenaline and cortisol and making us physically ill as well as demeaning our capacity to perform an act so these mindfulness moments are really valuable and you know I give the example of the Microsoft wheel of meditation but other mindful moments that you know people might have during the course of their day is making a cup of coffee so when you make your cup of coffee say every time I make my coffee or my tea I'm going to be all in and that's my mindful moment like I'm making my tea it doesn't take 10 minutes it just takes a moment but it gives you a moment to say when I do this then I allow myself to to calm down and to connect I'm just looking we got a couple more questions and I want to see if we have already addressed them so we talked about the news and maintaining productivity in the age of alarming news the role of leadership in achieving all of goals of mindfulness so we talked about the idea of setting a socially conscious mission that might be inclusive of a holistic experience we talked about permission to focus and you know doing some things specifically within the workplace like a technology free meetings that you can do or time to plan or time for right recognizing that getting organized as part of promoting productivity and also in terms of permission to focus you know leaders can model and articulate that they're not just frenetically rushing through their day complaining constantly about how overwhelmed and busy they are but they're actually scheduling time for themselves to be methodical and to move through the things they want to accomplish the other thing that leadership can do is reward a mindful mindset so if the people who are getting accolades and promotion are the ones who are running around like chickens with their head cut off then what that suggests is that this company values frenetic activity as opposed to valuing methodical production so I think it's really important for companies who want to encourage a more mindful experience to look at how they reward people and that could be as simple as you know who gets accolades it could be inviting people who are looking frenetic to take advantage of opportunities that the company may offer to learn new skills or to you know sort of soothe that that style but I think that celebrating the outcome you know focusing on what people are accomplishing rather than focusing on their sort of level of busyness sets a tone for what's valued so we want to accomplish these goals and if you accomplish those goals that's valuable but just being busy isn't necessarily getting you where you want to be right uh I want to make sure that we cover everything we you know we have we covered a lot today to cover everything right I want to cover everything but we only have a certain amount of time so I want to make sure that we've hit all the important stuff and if we haven't let's get to it now and and then I also want to let people know that this is the remind people that this is the first webcast in our work life balance series and that we've got a couple more events that are happening one that's happening later this month and then and that is finding your balance go with the flow it's a actually free yoga class with sangha studio which is a nonprofit yoga studio right here in burlington's old north end and that's on january january 25th and it's a complimentary it's a free class for nonprofit staff and then on february 9th we're doing another webcast with NFP which is steps to organizational wellness and we'll be talking about NFP about strategies benefits and programs nonprofits can implement to support wellness within the organization so and that's coming up that's a great extension of this conversation because we've talked about from an organizational standpoint what some things that leadership can do to change the culture or to set the tone and then the next question is you know well what what should we be doing like what are the programming that we should be offering and I think as we talked at the beginning that's the first place people sort of jump to like do we need a meditation room should we be offering yoga classes and I think yes to all of that I think that's great so I think that offering training in in mindful practice and in productivity is very very valuable so offering the training is one thing and that could look like helping people get organized you know giving them the skills and supports that they need to manage their email or to keep track of their to-dos or to effectively schedule those things it could be communications training and how do I communicate my reality to other people so that as a team we're all on the same page and nobody's expectations are missed it can be the yoga classes the the meditation classes exercise programs all of which are integrally tied to people's capacity to perform and focus but when we talk about these things you know you go from sort of like idea wouldn't that be great to practice yay we have training to sort of culture like this is an integral part and I think that's a transition that companies go through so there's offering the training is sort of an ad hoc or an as requested or you know it's like a wellness offering and then there's having it be really this is part of who we are this is not just something that's offered one off but that's consistent and that's that's a really it's a key part of our company and you know for a small organization that may not always be possible but they can look for collaborations or possibilities so that that can be part of a benefits package for people so I think that those are what's coming next in your upcoming programs is a great extension of this conversation but even if you work for a company that's never going to go there or your association or agency feels like they simply don't have the resources you can still take care of yourself as an individual and so some of the things we talked about last time about I mean I talked about the big three like take care of your mind get enough sleep get regular exercise eat in a wholesome way like those are such simple things and I know with New Year's resolutions people revisit them over and over but it's it's worth saying if what I really want is to be centered and productive there's nothing else you can do that's bigger than getting enough sleep getting regular exercise and eating in a wholesome way so I the big three is what I call those it's big three for brain care and that's where I always start with people and it's so simple that doesn't mean it's easy but in terms of mindful practice if you say oh I'm recognizing I'm noticing that these are things that I'm not attending to then the next natural question is what can I do about that and and there's a lot of potential there without judgment right or condemnation just to say I notice this what can I do well you make it sound so simple it is simple even if it's not easy right okay there you go there's the difference yeah yeah so let's talk a little bit about you so you as a productivity trainer and the type of services that you could provide individuals and organizations yeah beyond you know today's webcast sure so I teach workplace productivity in an office organizing and I love speaking and training that's actually one of the favorite things that I do is standing in front of groups and talking to them about concepts that have to do with productivity and organization so as I said usually that's about email it's about keeping a good list why use a list what is the neuroscience behind an effective list what makes a list a good list and not a good list and then how do you transition from the list to the calendar how do you actually not just have your intentions recorded but actually get them done so those are the the biggest pieces that people often look for training around and I love speaking and training to groups but then I also do the one-on-one training okay because sometimes people will come to a class or workshop and they'll say great ideas and they'll go back and do it and other times people will come to a class or workshop and they'll say great ideas and they'll go back to their office and say oh but where do I start and so providing that one-on-one support where I can help an individual identify what their goals are and then streamline their physical space and create new habits to support them in accomplishing what they want to accomplish and people can find out more about you on your website which is productivityvermont.com I'll spell that out yeah great so I think you know we covered a lot today we've got a lot of folks out there who have busy lives and busy schedules and we really appreciate that you took the time to spend um you know some time with us today to be more mindful and uh and hopefully you'll also be more productive in your workplace and we look forward to seeing you again later this month at finding your balance go with the flow yoga class at Sanga Studio and then next month steps to organizational wellness with NFP webcast on February 9th so thank you all for joining us Porter thank you so much I learned a lot thanks and uh I'm gonna go back and try to be a little bit more gentle with myself and notice and not judge perfect so thanks again thank you