 American issues. Take one. I'm Tim Apachele, your host. And today's title is political violence shows up at the Pelosi door. Mega GOP spins the attack. You know, political violence, unfortunately, has been with America since the early days, reminded of all the assassinations and assassination attempts against our leaders or presidents. There are of course, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt was shot in the chest while giving a speech. A notebook actually stopped the bullet. McKinley was assassinated. Kennedy was assassinated. Ronald Reagan, it was attempted assassination. Bush senior, all the way down the line. And then about five years ago, while the Democrats and the Republicans were going to put on a charity baseball event. The Democrats were practicing on one field and the Republicans were practicing on another. And in 2017, a lone gunman basically opened an attack on the Republicans on the field. Steve Scalise the the House whip. Republican for Louisiana was critically shot and injured and wounded and in the hospital for quite some time. Five years ago. Let's fast forward to today where many threats have been levied against public officials, not just politicians. And of course, with the recent news event that Paul Pelosi was attacked in his home by a lone assailant. And the question is, how did we get here. Is it possible that we'll have violence or not. Is there things that are spurring the violence, such as mega GOP rhetoric. And we're going to discuss that more today. I'd like to introduce my guests with us today is our special esteemed guests, Vicki Cayetano. My co host, Jay Fidel, and our contributor Cynthia Lee Sinclair good morning everyone. To you first. We're dealing with a very heavy subject here of course has the political climate change substantially since the shooting of the Republicans on the baseball field, specifically Steve Scalise has has the political rhetoric ramped up. Or is it basically the same and we just have a long alone assailant that was inspired by the political rhetoric and acted what's your take on it. A number of things. That was softball, by the way. I said baseball. No, it doesn't matter whether it was baseball. It was softball, compared to what's going on now. Oh, okay, gotcha. And yeah, and you're right in the way you characterize it. There was condemnation on both sides. And there was a, you know, a morality and ethic that responded. Not today, not today. And I think the, you know, the example of Paul Pelosi is really in form informative. Because we see the Republicans making fun in the nature of shot and Freud, you know, and we begin to understand that they really like this it's like a ball game which is life and death, you know, lethal ball game. And it's really hard to take if you have any ethics or morality left. What's interesting that has changed in the past five years is that there appears to be a real connection between the rhetoric and the violence, you know, that first the rhetoric just was rhetoric. And you said, ah, they're not going to do anything. They're just spouting off. Now we find that that that rhetoric actually leads to violence. And a part of it is, in my view, the dog whistle thing. As when you get up there and say that the indictment of Trump and Mar-a-Lago is likely to lead or will lead to violence. You're saying not only you're not only observing the possibility. You're actually doing dog whistle. You're saying that the people who follow Trump, you should take this as a message. The message is you are liberated now. You can do violence. I am telling you, this is a good time for violence. And he taught us that over his administration. He taught us that sometimes he was doing dog whistles and what he said in terms of expecting violence was really a request for violence. I mean, think about the comments that he made on January 6th. You know, we have to fight like hell. And they did. So I think that things have changed. A, the morality has declined dramatically in the country. And B, there is now a clear dog whistle connection in a predictable dog whistle connection between a violent rhetoric and violence. So the answer is, yes, there has been a number of assassinations in this country, much more, many more than we really should have over the past couple hundred years. But now it's been liberated and it shows you that one person can change things and make things much worse. It's happened in Europe in the 30s, and it's happening with Trump here now. And this is one good indicator of how it works with him. I don't know if you remember, but about two months ago we had former Governor John Whitehead on our show, and he said something that hasn't left me and that was Donald Trump has given permission for his followers to to act and say, you know, horrible things. And it's that permission I think that maybe is the big difference between where we are today, and maybe where we were five years ago when both Democrats and Republicans rallied around Steve Scalise. I saw an image of when the Democrats first learned of the shooting, they gathered in the field like 19 members of the Democratic Party immediately gathered on the field and prayed right then and there. I'm not sure we're seeing that nor will we see that. I don't think we will. One more point that comes off that is that, you know, we don't have a population or a base that has the moral strength to say, I am not going to respond to the dog whistle. It's not true violence. Rather, we have a base that says I'm, I'm ready willing enable, and I can, I can be instructed and unleashed and liberated. Just, just call my name and I'm there. And that's different. That's that's good point it was five years ago. That's a good point. Vicki to you on that point J dismayed is, you know, is the base looking to its leaders to see if there's condemnation on violence towards politicians, or are they ignoring the leaders, no matter what they say, or a combination of both where there's the dog whistle as Jay said and sometimes it's a bullhorn. Trump was a bullhorn of racism and invitation to violence. What's your take on that. As far as the mag and I'll say the mega GOP I'm not going to say the GOP I will make that distinction. What's your take on the mega GOP and their rush to violence or acceptance of violence, and do they look toward the leaders of their party to get a wink and a nod that it's okay. I agree with what Jay just said and and while there have been acts of violence. In the past, they've been the acts of individuals. What concerns me more than anything right now is not just those acts themselves, but how the leadership of the mega GOP is responding as you say, President Trump has given an invitation for her president to, to not only uphold this type of behavior but to encourage this kind of violence. There is no place for that in our country and, and they will do anything that you know the means justifies the end. They don't care what means it takes, even to sacrifice compromise democracy in order to get their candidate in. That is what I'm really concerned about and a community of people you would think that has more grounded in character and common sense to speak up and say something but no instead this rhetoric is really triggering people to start, as we see on the mainland, encouraging this kind of behavior it's almost a badge of honor for them. That's what concerns me and that I think is what should be what we should be focusing on. We did hear from Mitch McConnell immediately and he did condemn it. He is a leader of the Senate Republicans. He's a leader of a big name in the party of the GOP. But then we heard from others. We didn't hear much from Kevin McCarthy, and then we heard from the mega, the GOP, be at Kerry Lake, and her making a joke out of the whole situation which she's been taking the task for, or we had Marjorie Taylor green talking previously about Nancy Pelosi and how, and I quote, a bullet to the head would be quicker. And that was in reference to getting her out of her position at the speaker as the speaker of the House. I mean, these are things that people pick up on. Don't forget Trump himself. He never said anything. Not a word. Okay, I did about the Pelosi attack he said yesterday. He came on late yesterday on social media and he said, um, he always makes an he always implies something that's not there, and he leaves it dangling in the air. In the case it was again conspiracy talk or thought he said the glass meaning the door glass of the door. It seems was broken from the inside to the outside. And you know, so it wasn't a break in it was a break out. Now this is crazy conspiracy stuff. The implication was that there was a relationship between the assailant and Paul Pelosi, and that nature of that relationship was a gay relationship that went bad. Donald Trump and trying to whitewash responsibility of rhetoric that's being directed towards people of his party, and particularly the ones that are disturbed. So there was a response from Donald Trump. Vicki back to you. Is it the chicken or the egg here is it is a mental illness, or those words that inspire those who are mentally ill to act. Right. I definitely, you know, while there's no question that we do have mental illness issues. For me, if you have to say one or the other, it's the rhetoric, it's the rhetoric that is triggering war, you know, instigating these acts, encouraging them. We have never, ever had a president of the United States talk in such fashion ever. And this should be a real warning to our country. You know, good point. Yeah, okay, thank you. Yeah, and this, people need to look beyond this about the Trump or the other candidates, and really understand what's at stake for all of us. And don't think for a minute that it won't happen in this country. Yeah, good point. Yeah. And I'm remiss I forgot to mention Gabriel Geffords, the Democrat from Arizona that was shot in the head in front of a grocery store back in 2011. Clear case of a disturbed individual. And it was a political motivation so we can't forget about Gabby Gifford. Cynthia, what are your thoughts about the shooting fight back in 2017 of the Republicans on the baseball field softball field versus where we are with the attack on the Pelosi household. Are there any parallels for you to draw from. We have some actual opinions about actually Nancy Pelosi came out on the day of the shooting when Scowice was shot and said what happens to one happens to all of us. And we are all together and that's when they went to the field and prayed right then and there. That's how the Democrats reacted. So let's look at some more details about what the Republicans did. Good old Donald Trump Jr. thought it was very funny to put a meme out on Twitter. It is just a picture of underwear and a hammer on top of it. And oh, such laughter of various responses afterwards. Then we've got the head of the GOP. The campaign chairman, that guy, which is named Tom Emmer, and he put out a thing on Twitter, two days before this happened, where he's at a gun range shooting, and then the tag is hashtag fire Pelosi. So, you know, all of these things that we put together, like we're talking about today with this rhetoric, and some of it is so subliminal even with things like just a meme with a picture of underwear with a hammer stick on top of it. And it's just horrendous to think about. And these exact same GOP, just not too long ago, right, were up in arms. Okay, these same people that are joking about what happened to Paul Pelosi are now talking, I mean, we're then just up in arms, so angry, because somebody was rude to Ted Cruz at a restaurant. And I think that is such a great parallel to look at. They think it's just funny to go and put a decent man who was doing nothing wrong in ICU. And yet, they think it's horrible how terrible the Democrats are for being rude to Tom Ted Cruz in a restaurant. And I think that's a restaurant for goodness. It's like the, they just anything that's bad that they've done. They want a minimum. Let me let me hit on that point, Cynthia. I mean what you're describing I think is extreme hypocrisy. Yeah, who, who ought to call them out for that. Is it the voters. Is it the media. Is it leaders of both parties I mean, who all of you who's responsible to stop this sort of stuff. All of the above, all the above, absolutely all of the above. I'm mad at the media for not calling this out a little bit more extremely. I'm mad at that. The media for treating these crazy. Like they're normal. Like it's just. Okay, well, we've had four to five years of this outrageous behavior and outrageous rhetoric outrageous words from the, you know the commander in chief. Yet where was the leadership of the Republican Party to call it out. Let me give you an example. I mean, one Paul Gosar. He's the Republican from Arizona. He put out a, he was stripped by the way of all his committee duties. And why was he stripped of all his committee duties and responsibilities and leadership. He put out a tweet it was an anime video depicting him killing occasional Cortez. I mean, it was, although it was a meme. It was him shooting Cortez. And so here's what the leadership said. That's not quite the leadership but Kevin McCarthy said, when or if the house flips back to the Republicans, I'm going to reinstate him in all his previous committees. So I guess the question is, to what degree is the Republican leadership responsible for the increase of violence or is there any correlation. There, there's absolute correlation. And I think what I see happening is that they, when something like this happens, first they minimize it, then they mock it, then they celebrate it. And it's also that they can support violence and force because they're going to take what they want. And if they can't get it, they're going to take it by force. And, and that's why I constantly asked the question, where are the good Republicans. When I lived in the South, I had friends and I still have them that are are Republicans staunch Republicans, they're not maga. You know, for violence and so where are they, and I think they have more responsibility than anyone and what's the old adage that, you know, for evil men to prosper. It doesn't take evil it takes good men to say nothing. Right. And so, I think I might have muddled. That's all right. I know that I know the quote. So where are the good Republicans. We've got good Democrats being willing and bold enough to stand up and speak the truth to power, but even there, a little scared with all of the threats of violence. Now, all of that is even making the good Democrats want to be quiet. I'll throw out two names for you, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzender. Those are the two that come to mind. Okay, Cynthia, thank you. I want to, I want to lead with back to Jay on a word that you mentioned, and that is correlation. Jay, you remember back in the back in the day, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, there was great outreach about the amount of violence that was being portrayed on television. And the desert attempt by certain groups to say there's it's gone too far. There's too much violence. It's too explicit, and it's influencing the minds of many young people. And the, the, the big fallback was, well, there's no correlation between violence on TV and violence in society. So to that, that point, is there a correlation to the rhetoric? Or is it really a result of the dog whistles and the bull horns that are being spoken by the mega GOP and certainly Donald Trump? Can we go back to that word correlation and say, where are we on that? And why won't people accept the correlation? All of the foregoing, you know, all these things feed into a kind of violent culture that we have. We have that already. And if you exacerbate it, then we have it more. And there is a correlation. There's also a dog whistle phenomenon, and we are getting more violent. And, you know, and we can be upset about it. We can be sad that the media doesn't stop it and other Republicans don't step up. And that's the direction. And if you want to look at one event that pointed the direction so clearly it was January 6. That pointed to, you know, it's only a Sunday walk in the park, it's not really violence, or violence is okay. And people say, well, there's going to be another insurrection. Well, yes, there is. It's an ongoing insurrection and it is violent. And my question, and I would really like to be able to discuss this with you guys is, where is this all going to end? You know, this is assassination attempts. Don't forget the judge in Virginia, the federal judge, who some actually deranged lawyer came down and was looking for her in her home in Virginia. And he wound up killing her son. He was reserved about it, didn't make a national big deal issue over it, but that was pretty brightening. But these are, these are one, one deranged person trying to kill somebody who is a political icon, or a judicial icon, case may be. It's not street violence. It's not the kind of violence we saw in Portland, for example. It's not the kind of violence where that kid ran around with an assault rifle, killing people that will and then got off light. It's not that. But the question I put to you all is, is that where we're heading? If we give the nod to violence on a one-to-one basis, if we let it happen, if we don't condemn it, if the Republicans in there, if, I want to use a new word here, plurality, if the Republicans in there, plurality, you know, make jokes about this, where are we going? It's not going to stop in, you know, in one time only assassinations. It's going to wind up in the street. And I worry about next week. I worry about, you know, the threat of violence from Lindsey Graham, you know, where he said if you indict a mirror logo, you'll have violence. And likewise, if you have a provocative, a series of provocative issues and results and outcomes in the election, whichever way that goes, you could have violence there. So I think it's the next step that I worry about. Yeah. Thank you, Jay. And let's entertain that thought. Vicki, based on what Jay just said, let's compare that to the Kerry Lakes joke she made about the assault on Paul Pelosi. So it wasn't explicit the words itself it was the tone and mannerism which it was delivered. People in the audience definitely thought it was funny. And Kerry Lake, again, she's the candidate for the governor in Arizona. She basically said I'm tired of being taking the task, and I'm exercising my First Amendment rights. So let's, in lieu of what Jay just said as far as where is this going, and someone clinging to the First Amendment. Does that hold water? Well, we know that it doesn't but here's what I think we have to do we've got to look squarely at what the issues are, you know why, why is it that they have an audience that's latching onto this. At the heart of it, both parties we've become two parties with that are so extreme between the liberalism and the conservatism. And I think for many of these mega GOP people, they feel that they're losing control. So you have all these minorities now who are no longer just our gophers and housekeepers, but they're rising up in the ranks. The average Caucasian middle class guy is losing their position and middle class, especially look at Hawaii it's disappearing. Now it's a we're becoming a state of haves and have nots. And many of the haves are people who come from other countries. I think this is at the heart of the issue. And it's not to justify the behavior but I think we've got to really look at how do we come up with solutions and with that is really more of a centrist moderate approach to the policies that we have. I think this is something that nobody's talking about. And yet to me is centered to the issues before we have a civil war, and I really don't think that I think it's a great point. I think grievance in white male grievance is really has come to the forefront and Donald Trump I think successfully tapped into that. But it's not just minorities I also believe that there's a male female thing. I read a study recently that many females will not date a male that if they've gone to college the female gone to college, they are reluctant to date males that haven't gone to college. And so the more of this agree and being back into, you know the back of the room so to speak, because it's hitting them on all fronts. Good point Vicki thank you. You know why she won't date that person, probably is because she doesn't want this person to not respect her for what she's worked so hard to attain. I think that's at the heart of it, not just come home and say, Where's my dinner. Well, by the way, where is my dinner. No, I want to add a point to that you're, you're, you're talking about reorganizing our society. If you want to make, you know, these middle class Caucasian people happier and give them more give them greater opportunity. I would argue they have plenty of opportunity right now but that's a it's a subjective thing. You're talking about reordering this society, which even if we decided and I don't think would easily decide this. That is a matter of policy we should head in that direction. How, how could we do that and how long would it take to do that. I suggest to you that we don't have the time that the next step that I worry about is coming soon now, before we can make policies that will make everyone feel they have the opportunities they want to have. Yeah, Cynthia I saw you shaking your head know why. Well, because I think that society is already being, you know, remade and changed and white replacement their theory is actually a theory now that has been studied for a number of years for a handful of years right about this very topic that we're talking about. Do you think there's any valid points to it. Well, if you're a racist, I can see how you would buy into it. Otherwise, no, I don't think there's any good points to it. Even racist have concerns. Yeah. This is my thing. I think how we remade society is that we completely. We're living now in a post truth world. Right after what has happened, truth doesn't really exist anymore. It's all been devolved into opinion, and for each person can do whatever they want without any, you know, connection to facts or science or integrity or honor. It's this whole new world where people can just make up whatever they want and spew it out onto Twitter. Right. And now we've got Elon Musk at the head of Twitter, already in the first days of his new ownership, tweeting out conspiracy theories about what happened to Paul Pelosi. That's correct. And Donald Trump tapped into that. Yeah, yes. And so did a couple other GOP Senators and representatives. This is the thing earlier we said that, well, Mitch McConnell came out and, you know, he said that, you know, he decried it. Well, he decried the attack. He hasn't said one word about everything else that's happened, coming from his party. Right. It's just obnoxious and horrible. And he specifically dodged that, along with Kevin McCarthy, because the criticism was, to what degree is the Republican rhetoric, causing this and they refused to answer on that point. Yeah, nothing. Oh, we think it was bad, but we're not going to say anything or look at these guys over here being absolute mega GOP and no integrity type people. And so what's the next step here. Well, that's for your show tomorrow, Jay. No, until next Tuesday. Well, you guys stay tuned to tomorrow on Jay's show. Yeah, but that is that is the next question is what is the next step and we've run out of time. So stay tuned for the Jay Fidel's American American issues take two. But before we end I need to go around the table to say, what are your last thoughts on this. It's, these are, you know, the election is right around the corner. Are you concerned. What's to be expected, starting with you Cynthia. I have two quotes. One is from representative Eric Swalwell, and it is in regards to this attack. He says we must draw the straight lines that connect violent political rhetoric and violent acts, the Pelosi assailants Facebook page looks identical to the Facebook pages of Trump, Taylor green and more. All three of them have glorified violence, and then to pap acted on it. Okay, so the next one and the last one I have is from George Orwell. We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. Thank you. Wonderful. I love your women and women and women thank you but you know, yeah, you know Cynthia you always bring great quotes to the table and I appreciate it very much. Jay your last thoughts on this topic. We haven't talked about how this affects us us here in this show, and our neighbors and friends, other politicians other officials, other people work for the government. Other people in general. It's terrifying to think to think that what happened to Nancy Pelosi and Paul Pelosi could happen to anyone. And, you know, gotta lock a door. And I don't know what else you can do maybe that's something to discuss on the next show. I don't know what else you can do but the level of threat, the level of fear is changed in only a few days in this country. All right, Vicki you get the last and final word for today's show. Thank you Tim as always I appreciate this interesting conversation and I just hope that the voters will take will pause and think about what's at stake here. You know when you're attacked in your own home that that's sacred. When you're attacked because of what you believe in and not be able to have a conversation with the people. That's really unacceptable. And so I hope that everybody will just take a pause here and understand that even if the candidate that you support doesn't make it through. We need to step back and look at democracy and action and really cherish what we have as a country, because that rises above everything else for all of us. I hope people will have that ability to just hit the pause button and step back and look at this and don't just jump on that bandwagon of rhetoric, because there's so much at stake here, and I really fear for our country. Alrighty, we'll leave it at that. I'd like to thank our special esteemed guest Vicki Cayetano, my co-host Jay Fidel, our contributor Cynthia Lee Sinclair. Thank you one and all for joining us today. I'm Tim Appichella your host for American Issues Take One. Please join us next week and join up with a show tomorrow to discuss this further and with Jay. Until then, much aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.