 Tuesday morning here on the west coast of the United States to everybody welcome to another regular meeting of the hyper ledger special interest group in media and entertainment. For those of you who aren't aware of the group the name pretty much speaks for itself we're one of the multiple special interest groups associated with hyper ledger. Specifically as it relates to some of the challenges facing media in the broader sense all the way from social networking and let's say journalism out to the other end of the spectrum which is entertainment which as you can imagine includes related challenges vis-à-vis piracy, intellectual property copyright and so forth. But today, I'm at UCLA myself so occasionally topics float to the top relating to to higher education specifically and how we can actually promote and disseminate and teach some of the technology that we're interested in. So on that score, and as a consequence of some recent conversations we've had here at hyper ledger I'm very lucky to have as our special guest today for a very loosely defined chat Dr Ali M dad excuse me, who currently is Associate Dean at the Earl G Graves school of business and management at Morgan State University. So, expanding that context a little bit that means we're talking about the, the teaching and the success stories in HBC use or historically black colleges and universities. So, welcome to Dr slash Dean M dad. Thank you. Thank you David and whenever we're ready we can get started. That's fantastic. For those of you who know IBM makes very broad and consequential use of hyper ledger technology for their blockchain platform so I put in the chat, a couple of links, which connect to the recent collaboration with HBC use and IBM on blockchain and wider technological initiatives. So that might make some interesting reading, and it might prompt some questions. And when it comes to questions please feel free to ask them either here on zoom where we currently are, or on the live stream at YouTube. And we will harvest those questions and pose them as and when they pop up. So, first things first. Dr M dad, maybe you could just tell a little bit little bit tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to be in your current academic position. Sure, sure. Well, I was working. First of all, thank you so much for this opportunity to talk and present and discuss what what the HBC you community is doing currently in the fintech space. And I wanted to start by saying that I started my career in the corporate side. Many years ago at the Kennecott corporation. And which is has to do with copper mining and mining in general around the globe. And I got interested in the academic side and based on my encouraging encouragement from my dissertation advisor at Case Western Reserve University I moved to the academic side and, and the rest is, so to speak is history. I received my PhD from Case Western Reserve, taught at a few different universities, including Penn State, when I came to Morgan to create the Department of Information Systems, and, and then build that program. And then later on I became the dean associate dean of the business school. And that leads me to the, to the creation of the center for the study of blockchain and financial technology or fintech. We call it the fintech center. 2016 2017 timeframe noticed a lot of interest from students meeting informally around the campus at Morgan and talking about cryptocurrencies interest was bubbling up from the student side. And, and then we decided that we need to do something more constructive more organized kind of event forum to bring the students into touch with some of the digital asset community and crypto economics. So we organized the, the first panel discussion and national panel discussion we invited Matthew Green, who was on the development team for Z cash. And he came over and talked as part of that panel discussion, and we noticed the blockchain club was being formed by the students at that point. So we became really interested in developing our offerings on campus so we offer the first course on blockchain. And at any hvc us any historically black colleges and universities around the country. There are 105 hvc us in total, and so we, we showed that there is a lot of potential in this space, and we wanted to be proactively pursuing the discipline and be in the forefront of the development or developments in this space. At that point. We created in 2018, the center, the fintech center. And in 2019, we received funding from ripple. There was a funding, a number of universities around the world. And these were all leading universities, Princeton, Cornell, UT, Texas, University of Texas, Austin, and many, many other universities around the world were part of this initiative that triple hat. And we were fortunate to be one of those universities to receive funding that supported our center. And as part of our mission. I think I would like to share my, this, my slides that would make it a little bit easier to follow what, what the course of development was. Can you see the slides. Yes. Okay. So, we created the center. One of our mission objectives was to not only serve the university Morgan State University, but we wanted to provide a local service to promote learning and development of blockchain understanding of blockchain and fintech at all HPC use not just at Morgan. So we became the hub for activities around the country. We provided services to, to other HPC use as well. In terms of curriculum initiatives. We, we thought that the center should have education, research outreach activities, and on the education side, we focused on developing the the so called train the trainer kind of approach of developing the faculty first. And in 2019 we through a very sort of competitive process, we brought in 45 faculty from 30 HPC use over a three day period to New Orleans. And we had support from Duke Law and University of Michigan and UC Berkeley. The faculty from these universities came to New Orleans. And we had a very productive three days collaborative environments encourage development and encourage sharing of ideas. And that's what the goal was, and we had, after we finished the, the Institute that we had in New Orleans, the faculty actually left with the syllabi for courses related to blockchain modification of existing courses and a few of them actually had started developing new courses and they finished it up at the Institute. So that was one of the activities. The, this slide shows the number of HPC use that we started with right now the number is approaching 60 back then it was 34. And now it's, it's about 60 different HPC use that are part of our network that receive support and participate in our events and services. The research initiative that we had at the at the center has continued over the years, and we provide competitive research grant opportunities to the faculty, not only at Morgan but also at other universities. And close to two dozen research papers have come out of these efforts and many of them have been published already. We provide seed funding for grants. Again, these are, these are small grants, these are not huge grants. We call it incentive for the faculty to get engaged in this space. Innovation grants are another type of support that we provide, because during the pandemic we moved all of our activities, like many other universities to the virtual environment. And we encourage the faculty at HPC use to to be creative in providing learning opportunities for their own faculty on their campuses, and we provided some funding on on that. And as a result of that there were several interesting projects that resulted in that, including podcasts and development of some use cases for instance on in the West Indies, we had some activities related supply chain on a tiny island. And that was a case in agriculture. The, the activities. Every year we, we have a conference that that brings together all of their researchers and people that were part of our activities and developed different projects. They make the presentation at a conference that we have in November this year is it's also in November Thursday and a Friday in November. I think it's 12 and 13 of November this year. And, and that today conference brings a lot of people together to 300 from different HBC use faculty are typically interested in that because it's an academic conference. And, and if it's something that the professors are interested in participating. So, in the, in the conference, we typically we do the presentations of research founding findings and what what projects, they have been involved in the. There are virtual info rooms available for our sponsors interactive panel discussions and so on and so forth. So, the. We also did did a number of things in support of our students seminars podcast. Social media campaign to to attract members. We supported the students in providing the technical support. If they needed logistical support. Before the pandemic, when they wanted to have events on campus and after the pandemic we help them with speakers and they even I think David was well was kind enough to help them with with some some of the events that they had. And because of some experiential learning activities, we wanted to make sure that our students get involved in in something very innovative. When the former CEO of Binance us was willing to support us by providing actual funding in in the students wallets. We went with the idea of creating a crypto challenge, and we called it the HBCU students battle for the cryptos. And, and through that process we were able to bring in in the first competition, we had a smaller number of students. But in the second one we had almost 100 came to the event. And although the numbers at the end were not as high they were close to 40 or 50. But the learning that took place was fantastic. Catherine coley, who was the CEO at that time was gracious to come to different meetings. These are all virtual, and actually answer questions when the students were talking about their how to form their portfolios in in crypto funds. How do they, what sort of system should they use and what sort of they the ups and downs of using one, compared to another, so learning how to use and maneuver through an exchange. This was very, very beneficial to the students. So the result of all of this was that our students became really well versed in the in the crypto environment, and it showed that we can we can actually be creative in that. And if I'm not mistaken, this was the only competition that actually use real funds, not not simulation. We plan to expand our activities. And I'm again, I'm going through all these slides a little bit faster. I don't have time for Q&A, but the, some of the things that we want to do is for instance, in the area of what are the needs of the unbanked and underbanked communities, when it comes to fintech we find out that there are a lot of potentials. We can make that happen. What sort of things can we do in terms of research education and outreach to make that possible. What is our role as the fintech center and also as a university in that space. And we are offering our immersive workshops boot camps and other learning opportunities for our students and faculty and staff. We want to also build a sustainable partnership with various fintech financial companies, government agencies and others who are interested in working with us and moving our goals forward. So at this point I want to stop and see if there are any questions I can answer. And I want to say that this is a growing area. And there are so many different aspects of it that we can, we can focus on the university environment or the higher education environment as maybe Jeff can talk to that from the IBM perspective. But the university environment moves slowly in adopting change. And we wanted the whole purpose of this fintech center was to be able to put new material in front of our faculty students and staff as soon as possible and get them interested in learning and integrating and incorporating into their courses and their curriculum. So that was the intention from the start. We continue to pursue that we find challenges but we can. We find also some supportive groups including hyper ledger and and the Linux foundation that have been really fantastic in bringing us new ideas and new materials. That we can share with our, our community. That's great that's a really rich introduction. Do we have any questions at this point, please feel free to unmute yourself. If not, I have a couple of leading questions myself that will continue the chat. Yes, I do. You guys hear me. Absolutely. Yes, my name is Malik armstead. I'm an alumnus of Morehouse College. And I've recently been in touch with professor, Juliet, he knew the head of the business department there. And I recently had a big speech presentation to the incoming class freshman and sophomores just a few weeks ago. And it concluded that, that we wanted to start an online club sometime this far, excuse me this fall so I would love to know how to potentially collaborate or you guys can support us and launching cryptocurrency club at Morehouse College. Thank you, Malik for that question. Let me, let me say that we have actually supported professor illu on a paper that she submitted last year to to our research group for for funding and for for support and we did that last year. She is a great person to work with, and we would be very happy to connect with you so feel free to email me my first name Ali dot m dot em dad at Morgan dot edu. And I'll be happy to connect you with the team at the FinTech Center and they can they can help you in any way possible we are goal is to help students and situations like this when you want to get started. We can connect you with our with our club, the blockchain club. It's by the way, when we started it was only a few people that were showing interest in it. Now we have close to, I believe that I was told that about 60 students have joined the club and they're actively pursuing different. Students then just got a job with Tiro price and left, but we have that's that's the nature of the student organizations. New leadership is going to come in and and move the the goals forward. So feel free to contact us. And I will and I and I saw that you guys have that a battle of the cryptos club I did discover that online. And I think it would be a great incentive by starting a club in the fall with preparation trying to put a team together for more house to come in and try to take, take the lead or when the top places in the spring. So thank you very much and I definitely will be in time. Absolutely. Hi. So, so hi doctor and dad. This is my coach on from University Illinois at Springfield. How are you. Oh, I'm doing fine. How are you. Yeah, I'm good. So it's so exciting that you know I have a chance to join your talk. And then here in in Midwest, and then the. So, so it's very exciting that to know that you know you are so, so fast in terms of like you know catching up the speed of the, the blockchain along with the hyper later communities. And here, I'm, I'm teaching MIS and innovation courses and then here. I'm probably the first. If I'm one. Okay, try to incorporate blockchain material into my teaching. For example, this semester I'm teaching systems and as a design which is important and my scores. And then, and I'm hoping to incorporate blockchain into my teaching, you know, however, there doesn't seem to be any textbook or ready material available. So I end up. I'm sorry, you know, I hoping I hope you can see me but my camera just add up. Okay, so I'm sorry that you cannot see me. And so I, I, so I end up, you know, with, okay, trying to find, you know, some, you know, inspiration from hybrid age or in a community or any other schools like you, you know, try to get some inspiration to do to develop teaching materials as well. So try to find use cases examples, you know, like in a trend student to know about the tenets of systems and design. And then so I'm also I'm now working on the new research agenda regarding the different kind of a digital asset or like, or here now. Dr. McFadden in the Asper, you know, for applying the digital currencies into like entertainment culture, or show business and so forth. And so I see there's a great potential, you know, to explore the potential of the permissioned chance. And also the NFT, you know, non fun to put tokens, you know, try to explore the opportunity as well. So here, you know, things, you know, here we are a little bit, you know, like in behind. And so I'm just wondering if I have an opportunity to join your group and then to exchange materials or exchange research agendas, even like to collaborate with you or with your faculty, you know, for research. So if I have a chance, you know, I'll be great to appreciate it. Sure, sure. Michael. If you check the chat, you see my email. I'll be happy to connect you and share some materials with you. I also see the chat and I believe David must have posted this or someone else at Hyperledger that there are several areas in the Hyperledger site that you can you can actually access a lot of information. Yes. And, but in addition to that for a specific topics, the FinTech Center has created an area. We can share that with you. For instance, there is a legal aspect. There is a financial aspect. There is a technical aspect. There are a lot of resources, which is what coding what all of these things articles related to these are available that we will be happy to share with you. So just email me and we'll connect you with some of these resources. And please make sure that you visit the links that are posted in the chat. Great, great. If that's that's fantastic. And thank you so much for your generosity and then I appreciate, you know, to enjoy opportunity to work with you and with Morgan and also with your faculty members. Thank you. Sure. That's a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Michael. We've got three contact possibilities already in the chat if that helps you to reach out afterwards. I've got my email there. We have Ali's and also Judith who's the program coordinator at Morgan and FinTech Center so depending on your needs and your desires. Please feel free to reach out to any of us we have here a question from Eugene I'm presuming is a student Eugene maybe you could say where you are because that might help to answer your question which is how to join this student club. Fantastic. I'm guessing, I'm guessing that Eugene is a student. Yes, these. Oh, okay, fantastic. And then so David, you know, I've sent your email a while ago and then thank you so much for your nice word and then it's a breeze and really feel excited to connect with you again. And then so here in the US, you know, I'm trying to start from the ground up and then build materials, you know, hire a student to join the project and then explore in a research project and then to call authors in particular, you know, to publish. Thank you so much for to connect me to the wonderful work. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Let's presume that Eugene is let's put it this way in a broader sense how does any student at an HBC you get into your one of your clubs. Do they need to form a club first on their own campus or can they join from any physical location. Well, the events that are clubs are club at Morgan offers. The events are open to other HBC you students. Okay, and we a lot of times through the fintech center of either Judy or tiny saw one of one of the two program coordinators would would actually reach out to other universities to participate in the club activities. As a speaker, we try to make it as widespread the information reach as widespread as possible in, but we, we also encourage each campus to develop its own club. Because we want it to be sustainable. And when you have student leaders on each campus, promoting and encouraging other students to join and learn about fintech and blockchain and crypto and all forms of digital assets and understanding not not just the technical side but also the the softer side or the the legal regulatory aspects and things that are really going to push them in front of some of the other students in the job market to to compete and be able to contribute to the company so we we really encourage the campus leaders, we have campus champions at various universities HBC us and through them, we reach out to the students a lot of times directly, we have students in our databases. But we, we ask our colleagues at other universities to encourage their students to get involved and form clubs and we provide any support that we can to make it a successful launch. One of the things I'd like to come out of this this conversation is for more people to reach out to you and actually be involved so we've just had Judith posting a useful link for both instructors and students regarding an upcoming educational video competition so obviously, no matter which HBC you campus you have happened to be at or affiliated with that's a competition in which you can take part. So before I get to some concrete questions about what people, what kind of people would be your best collaborators either intellectually or professionally. Could you say a little bit about your long standing work with IBM, considering that this is a hyper ledger get together how was, how was that teamwork shaped up. Part of your, what you were saying part of it but lost, I think we couldn't hear it. If you don't mind repeating, you can't hear. How's that. Okay. Yeah, so my basic question was before I asked about who your best partners might be for future collaboration. Yeah. How is before I get to that one foundational question might be how has work been with IBM and what is that. How has that helped you and how has it helped your students. Well, the, I would answer the first part, the collaborators we've reached out to various members of the hyper ledger community. When we, we started talking about the NFT, for instance, NFT, developing understanding and presenting the latest developments to our community to all the HBCU faculty and students. We thought about reaching out to the, to the group from the hyper ledger community that has an interest in the education side, presenting and explaining the technical materials to the faculty and students. Okay, that's, that's one side of it. On the development side, we would love to have some discussions with the community, hyper ledger community members, developers, for instance, in developing apps. We started with working with the University of the Virgin Islands, for instance, on an agriculture food insecurity and food distribution and so on and so forth, an app that would address the needs of the farmers. The supply chain all through from the, the growing from the seed all the way to the shelf, so to speak, but on the island within that ecosystem to develop an app that would help that community, for instance. We're working with, with a developer right now on that. But there are, there are other use cases that we want to explore and we want to be able to create the use case so that we can share with the HBCU community, the faculty that want to take those use cases to their classrooms, and they want to put them in front of the students, maybe they can, the students can follow and use those as, as models that they can build some new ones. So, NFT right now is top of mind a lot of people are interested in learning about it. So, creating tokens, understanding, explaining the NFT environment would be another area that people, again, from the hyper ledger community are interested in that. In terms of working with IBM directly in any of these. We haven't done any and, and it doesn't mean that we, we will not do any collaborative work. There are some opportunities that IBM opened up to all HBCUs, and Morgan is part of that group. And we're hoping that we can, we can have some further discussions on specific projects that we can get involved in. Although IBM, as Jeff said, there are skill building kind of workshops and courses that they offer, and we have opened those actually recommended those to our network of HBCUs that they should participate because learning is learning, you know, you have to show interest and they have to participate. So those are the kind of things that we're hoping that we can continue and we can expand in the future. Yeah, so I slightly misunderstood on the IBM score I saw the report that they put out quite recently saying that they're working extensively with HBCUs and on blockchains I presumed that maybe they were working with you personally Jeff did you want to say something about IBM's work in this general area. Well, there's several aspects of the word work here. Within our global university programs, we run a different courses free for transferring technology from IBM to professors, but then go on and teach the courses and we provide all the material and even the online exams and so forth. And one of those is blockchain of those eight courses and I put a link in earlier about that. Also within our global university programs group we have a group of three people focused on HBCUs, which includes access to free software downloads and cloud offerings. And I think this last summer. Do you know the name Derek Warren Ali that ring a bell from Southern University. He was the dean across I think all seven of their campuses and he has us to run some classes just for people in Southern just so the remote learning environment we more collegial because everybody already knew each other. You mentioned somebody mentioned the chat Southern. So I thought it would bring that up. I mean, you know there's a lot of effort IBM has within blockchain on on the commercial side and that's also why it's one of the eight areas that we emphasize in our global university programs department. Remember that IBM is a large company so that maybe people working with universities and on blockchain that maybe you people working with universities with HPC use both of those are true. Now whether anybody's intersected intersected that like Ali has and is capturing the the on the Venn diagram the group of HPC use interested in blockchain. I don't know but I will certainly follow up on it. I think one question that needs to be asked at some point is what are your students want what what what are their career plans because obviously when you're speaking about such a broadly applicable technology like either like hyper ledger or you mentioned that crypto was the original sort of spark of inspiration. If people are interested in being mentors or even guest speakers what do you think they need to know about the the long term professional goals of your student body. The students, whether Morgan or other HPC use have repeatedly asked for material that they can, they can understand and learn something that would give them a general understanding so that they may not be coders they may not be developers, but they have to really understand what this technology brings to the table, what it offers and understanding of that is, is the most fundamental thing that we can do to make him knowledgeable, and not necessarily programmer of some sort but knowledgeable when we talk about the different different areas of the space from blockchain to to the to NFTs or use cases, they are familiar with it. And when we say smart contract they understand what it is, and what it brings, who are the major players in these areas, and what are they known for and what is the company for instance, contribution to this to this area. So these are the gradually they build on top of this, and they may go into the marketing aspect of it they may go into the development aspect of it the the technical computer science and is and it and engineers will find their own niche, and the, the more, you know, business types find their own the more the ones that are more centered on the economic theory they may find their own tokenization and why and how and all of that. So, it is the, you know, understanding the general if one, one, one thing that we can do when students at HBCUs leave, or at any university I always say that it's, you know, the, how long did it take for object orientation to become known and accepted, or for GLs, I'm dating myself on some of these things, but to become accepted for many, many, many years we focused on hierarchical models, for instance, how long did it take from the change from one language to another. Now there's so many different languages that your students are faced with and learning on all of these impossible. But if you give them the fundamentals, if you give them, build it on a solid foundation that they understand it. And then they become more interested later on when they are working at a JP Morgan Chase or a bank of America or some other mentioning these, because some of them are on campus visit, visiting regularly and wanting students with these kind of background. Any other questions at this point from anybody who the LinkedIn search right now, you see how many jobs are are mentioning blockchain. They're looking for. So, you know, we're talking about all of these things are so, so changing so fast. We want to be able to react quickly to these understand it digested make it available to the higher education community. A segment of that is the HVCU and we focus on those. Great. It sounds like we have at least a couple of questions waiting for you so who'd like to go first. I can go. That'd be great. I'm excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I have a comment and a question. So the comment is just basically to say thank you for the work you're doing and the ideas and just getting this center set up and really moving towards the HBCUs. Specifically for the space of the minority and the unbanked. So the unbanks of big space. We've been looking at this for the last seven years, particularly in the US but comparatively with global with a global view of what others were doing in terms of unbanked and what can be done to advance the economics of the unbanked. And we're doing this through Chicago State. And we're doing it with all by hands and all alone outside in the rain and cold. So it's nice to see that the other people thinking about the same things and doing something about. So thank you but then the question I have is related to the sandbox. Sandbox, the safety sea sandbox. And that's why I found this conference through the to the director there. She posted it on LinkedIn. And, and I wanted to just find out if you are doing anything in the sandbox. So if you're planning to do anything in the sandbox. We're, we're opening all possibilities to our member universities, and we support them. If, if you are at an HBC you and you have an idea and you want to to work with it. We want to support you we want to review and see what sort of impact it's going to have. And we encourage that. Right now we're working with this company, it's a company that develops. That is supporting us exactly with that sandbox environment that we're testing the the use case in agriculture. So the the PI in that project was needing some some assistance. So we were able to connect them with the company that provides the technical assistance and help with the development process. We are now, all of us the fintech center is part of that development, and we're working on a proof of concept for that use case that you're hoping that within the next few months it's going to be ready. So, contact me if you have any, any ideas. We can we can talk and see how we can help. Thank you, sir. Did I hear a second voice about to ask a question is there somebody with another question for us. No, must be cross lines. What if somebody would like to help. It would appear that institutionally you use the term mentor. So obviously we have a guest speaker but the next stage of commitment or involvement might be somebody being a mentor could you just explain that term a little bit and what it requires in terms of time or effort if people are interested. Mentoring has different layers mentoring again it's all dependent on the mentors time and availability and the area of expertise. We have mentors in the academic environment from UC Berkeley to Duke to Michigan. We went in a partnership with them to be to ask them to be mentors to our faculty when they want to develop courses because these individuals had already developed courses and workshops and they were familiar with the, with the ups and downs and and do's and don'ts. So, we, in the, in the practitioner community, I think the mentors can help the student projects they can mentor the faculty that are working on a specific projects and assist them, guide them. They can mentor them in the right direction. If they get stuck somewhere, and even having, having maybe once or twice a semester, I, you know, University calendars on the semester. We say that once or twice in the beginning in the middle and toward the end of the semester, some touch points where the faculty has a, has a mentor that they can feel comfortable discussing an ongoing project with them and get some ideas. If we can make a list of the mentors available to our community with their expertise, sort of a database of mentors and their expertise and their availability can be, it can be enormously helpful to us. That's really useful. I think my final question today loops back to the, the raison d'etre of this whole group. Could you just say a word or two about your students or faculty who have specific interest in media and entertainment. I think you'll, you'll find that David, you, you and I started talking about this because of the interest that we had. We have, I think Judy mentioned it in, in the chat that we have the competition right now as an example that there is interest in the media aspect of things, especially at least in this respect, the social media and how we can use the video as a medium for communicating an idea in, in a short burst in 60 seconds. Can you explain a concert related to fintech or, or blockchain. Can you explain it so that other fellow students quickly can grasp it and use this medium, the video and put it in the social media context. So there is on a practical level. That's what the interest is and we know that there is interest in learning and, and being involved now as an industry. Of course, with all of these developments that we hear about NFTs and understanding what, what aspect of the NFTs that they should focus on what sort of things they need to learn in order to be more prepared to join that community, the development, the developer community. So all of these things are, are important to us and the from our contacts from the meetings that we've had with the champions of different sessions that we've had with them at different universities. They express the same thing they want. They want the students to be knowledgeable in these areas. And if we can connect with the community that you're involved you're sharing this special interest group. It would be fantastic. It would be very, very helpful for for the students to learn and be involved and enjoy that network that you have created so that they can, they can benefit from the knowledge and expertise of that community. Actually, just as I was about to say thank you and goodbye Jim, Jim Sinclair here in the chat jumped on with a very final and an important question which is, is there any established pipeline to recruit these students. So once you know once they finish their studies. How do you go about actually advertising their skill set. Okay, how much have you been contacted by industry to take those students. Yes, the it is, it is a great question. And something that has been top of mind for us. And we're creating a database. We are our sponsors have come to us and they say do you have any students do you have any. Can you share their their resumes, can you refer some some of your your students to us. And that's something that we're creating a database of all HBC use collecting the information and making them available to the sponsors for the conference this year in November. So that's something in the works. And again, you know there may be other sources where students can can post their resumes and get get jobs and internships, but having that cross section as Jeff said, you know the. It's like a Venn diagram you, you bring in all of these different areas and then at the core is going to be the HBC use students interested in fintech and blockchain and and and all related areas. And if we present that to the community I'm sure that they, they're going to have a rich source to recruit. Well on that very optimistic note. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you to everybody who asked the questions and an equal note of gratitude to everybody who turned up. So with that Ali, thank you very much again for your time and and explanation of what's going on across the HBC you network. Please feel free to jump on to any email you saw in the chat so I think that was Ali and Judith of the program coordinator and myself and Jeff as well very generously from IBM and we can get this whole thing moving with greater speed and proficiency. So thanks again to everybody and we'll see you all in a couple of weeks. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.