 moving on ladies and gentlemen it is time for the next panel discussion and the topic at hand is decoding ESG please welcome our panelists thank you for being here my dear panelists and their audience after a very very hardcore communication sessions two sessions we are now getting into something which is more business so please take a deep breath before we dive into decoding what does ESG stand for environment social and governance and how is how does that impact our lives how does that impact our businesses so I you've met the pandas I'll be very brief in my introductions I'll be very brief in my comments and jump straight into this briefly businesses are not isolated entities they function within communities they function within a framework of law they use up a lot of natural resources this is really what ESG is all about the E stands for environmental criteria like energy waste and the consequences on the planet of using these or not and not disposing of some it encompasses carbon emissions and climate change social refers to the relationship that your organization has with reputation it maintains with people and existing institutions labor relations diversity equity and infusion the three very strong words which we keep hearing about these days governance is the internal system of practices protocols and procedures that a company adopts and employs in order to govern itself and make effective decisive decisions and meet the needs of internal and external stakeholders we talk about stakeholders we normally think about external stakeholders we don't think so much about internal stakeholders but today an internal stakeholders as important as an external stakeholder if you put all these three words together it really just stands for responsible sustainable business which is good for the planet people and delivers profit so I will now go straight to my panelists I'll start with Sonal Sonal is head of popcorn management stainless and has been a practitioner for several years so I will ask her to talk about her experiences thank you Gayathri before I start off on ESG I'm so happy to sit in a panel because I come from manufacturing which where I can see women in the panel and even beyond that it's a great feeling to come from a 5% women industry to a 50% women industry yes so talking of ESG you know now 50% of the media queries I receive I'm from corporate communication so answering to media queries is a part main part of our KRA is now directed towards ESG so that is a clear indication on how the reputation compass is now pointing towards ESG as one of the main pillars drivers of corporate reputation and for people in the practice on the corporate side there is a discernible shift and the shift has been decadal you know pre-91 when I used to you know when I used to read about my company's narratives back then it used to be how Swadeshi the company is how it is rooted in the you know in in the in the country's soil post 91 it was all about reforms and your Kpex and your investments and how you are in line with the Narsimhan Rao government of driving more and more profitability then came the turn of the century and the age of internet and internet became your reputation pillar and how digitization and MIS was driving your business then after that 2010 onwards and 14 is when CSR became compulsory the 2% net profit CSR became the buzzword and it is only off late in the last few years that we have seen ESG as a far more mature a far more expansive version of CSR expansive because CSR only accounted for the social part of the business whereas environmental and governance parts were not as covered in CSR as they are covered in ESG however there is nothing absolutely brand new in ESG from the standpoint of corporate communications you know all these communications even if you take the governance compliance you know ways to wealth the training part the diversity part social inclusion part everything was there but it was scattered it was in the BRR report it wasn't the waste generation drives it was in the conservation efforts that companies were doing it wasn't a different head it is to the credit of ESG that it has brought everything under one pillar and which is now the reason why corporates like us are running to ESG with all guns blazing and have taken targets to be net zero in the near future big shift for manufacturing. Thank you so much Sonal Sunil can I ask you to make your opening remarks? Well I mean you know when one looks at the whole question of ESG then the form and the shape which ESG has taken today there is a long history it all started with philanthropy and then you know a lot of corporates even in the pre-independent India where doing some philanthropic activity in terms of setting up hospitals setting up you know educational institutions and so and so forth and they used to consider that to be an extension of whatever profit they are earning so give it back to the society but over the years what has happened is that the trust which society had in most of the economic enterprise that trust no longer exists in the sense that it all began with the fact that the civil society or the people in general believe that corporations if they are in existence they are doing good for all not only for themselves so if they are exploiting natural resources then there is nothing no harm I mean in other words they are you know manufacturing something which is for everyone to gain from but very soon when the society at large started realizing that that's not the case if the objective of cooperation is only to maximize the shareholders value then where are other people I mean in the civil society the employees the investors each one of them realize that what is there in it so it is those things which has evolved over a period of time that today the you know apart from the company the civil society is government investors they don't trust companies simply because they are in existence they say that the trust is gone now you will have to show us that whatever you are doing is for the benefit of everyone not only for yourself it is on these aspect that eventually you know the companies also started realizing that if they have to remain in operation remain in existence that they will have to show to the people that they are doing their way so far as environment is concerned they are doing their way so far as social issues are concerned and they are also doing that bit to the investor that their governance is equally important because we have seen in number of cases that wherever you know the governance have not being proper or appropriate the largest of the corporations have collapsed so it is this aspect which have become important and that is what has in a way kind of collapsed into something called ESG and today the corporations do not see ESG as a corporate social responsibility is it is more of a strategic tool where they position and constantly have to communicate to the people at large that so far as environment is concerned we are doing our paper so far as doing good for the society is concerned we are doing our bit and so far as governance is concerned investors can rest assured that we are not you know doing something which will eventually kill the company and they will lose the money so that's the context in which I guess the ESG is positioned today thank you Sunil Smita would you like to speak about the relevance of ESG for startups yes but let me just give you a quick background also on that like much before we get into what is why is it relevant for them so as Sunil Sir just mentioned that there's a long history to ESG he actually stole my punchline there because I was trying to talk about it most people most large most founders that we meet in startup world or otherwise also the enterprises when I say sustainability to them they are not able to think beyond corporate social responsibility or philanthropy and I have to clearly tell them this is exactly not what I'm talking about that is a small part of it that's a comfort zone you very clearly know what numbers to make where to give what to do that's sorted for you right that's all that's been into practice and personally I don't subscribe to the aspect of CSR but because there is so much good work happening under it we just let that go on sustainability is so much more integrated has to be integrated in your business operations we are not talking about giving away free food that's a part of it yes go ahead feel free to do that but we are talking about energy efficiency we're talking about reducing your waste generation we're talking about reducing your water footprint we're talking about equal pay equal opportunity being inclusive not just diverse so and and of course when it comes to startups much like a lot of enterprises they lack awareness on this so it's very difficult to just go to them and pitch for your work I work for Fandoro technologies which is into working building adoption and awareness on sustainability for startups and investors it's a it's a difficult game but then once this fog is clear as to what sustainability means it's like is it even important for us like we poor people cash strapped less on resources and we struggling for resources we're struggling for survival why should we be looking at ESG at all and that is where you have to change the lens and say you are not doing something extra for somebody else what we're going to do here is your own business continuity plan your own risk assessment and risk management we're going to make you more successful and the drive that's actually coming to us for investor for startups to actually adopt these ESG I don't know how many people have heard here but sustainable development goals that's the framework I subscribe to so I people actually adopt these things when they hear these terms and the reason the one of the core factors that's actually driving this into startup world are the investors and the customers much like enterprises founder startups also have the same stakeholders your customers employees your investors regulatory bodies so there are two all of these stakeholders are actually driving ESG to startup founders and startups I do have to say while the push is still lesser but the pace at which things are now changing is so significant that if the startups don't adopt it now it is going to be very difficult for them to you know transform themselves much like the large enterprises find it very difficult so so just to decode ESG for startups what we talk about is when we're talking environment we are more focused on your supplier sustainability your environmental footprint across your value chain from sourcing to distribution so who are you you know who are your suppliers what kind of emissions are they making what kind of emissions you are making if it is logistics packaging whatever what kind of waste you are generating how are you recycling reusing reducing how is your e-waste being refi I'm sorry filing for your e-waste recycled what is your quantity per year so all of those and from the social side one of the most important asset for a startup is its talent so if they don't have the right people they are never going to succeed and the focus on ESG from a social angle actually helps them build those make make a more in inclusive and equitable I would say startup or organization to actually make their employees stick around more from a governance perspective of course the board evaluation has become so so significant why is somebody sitting on your board earlier nobody cared now it is if they're not bringing anything to the table why are they on your board why are you even paying them what's the skill set they have do you have somebody who looks into ENS the environment and social if you don't have anybody doing that then you need to add add somebody and the whole conversation that I I'll just conclude this guy three with is when we start talking to startups we go with the same question that we go to enterprises also sometimes what is your purpose if as a business you don't have a purpose and you're not able to marry that purpose to the ESG then the whole process is going to fail because purpose is your offense you go and communicate that to the whole world this is why we exist if we didn't exist at this would be missing from the world and ESG is your defense then you start proving this sorry thank you thanks I think it's good to be in this august gathering I'm really glad that I was invited to this place hello yeah yeah thanks I think it's great to be in this august gathering here and a wonderful being on this panel after hearing my estimate panelist I will try to avoid saying more of the same and let me share some media point of view which may interest some of my young friends here which is like how to make age stories break into the newsroom which is more probably from an operational point of which may be useful you see the USP of ESG's data what Mr. Sinha referred to this there's a diminishing of trust overall it's not only incorporates this overall in media also what the matter and probably ESG unintended benefit of ESG could be that it could help us to reclaim that trust because all about data at the end of the day that I means a lot but that I need self doesn't mean sufficiently everything actually sort and a bite self every analyst is sitting on gigabytes of data but here she does not make it to media because they're not able to analyze it they don't analyze it they don't package it properly they don't do it an interesting kind of packaging and they don't really reach it out to the media so that is where they don't make it usable kind of data they have a package interestingly it can break into news media a package into report it becomes I even a news event so those are very simple kind of things which make it to help it to make it to media now communicating data itself which is analyzed also could be supported with some compelling storytelling which of course all agencies are doing wonderfully well here and along with it of course then reaching out to the media to the right kind of people for example let me take the example of EHE reports it was a very humbly packaged report generally lots of effort and time and resources go into it but it doesn't get the kind of respect that is due to it it's very routinely routinely passed on by peer agencies to media and what does media do media does what it is best at ignoring it routinely actually and why does it do so because media doesn't have the resources to really analyze it doesn't have the skill sets it doesn't have the time it's very resource intensive and calling out stories from EHE reports is a difficult kind of a challenge for them that is why an opportunity arise for the PR agencies essentially because one all companies who bring out EHE reports and EHE teams for domain experts subject matter experts they're the best to analyze the data probably also flag stories there and apart from that there are some of the big PR agencies here who themselves have EHE teams internally so they will equip to really analyze it make it usable by media media doesn't have the EHE expertise at all I mean let's be clear about it they have beats but EHE is something which they are learning along with other beats what's happening yeah thank you thank you Gayatri and and then Qdos to Gayatri and the the organizers who to have actually you know put together such a diverse panel because which in its true sense you know reflects the the the topic of the session and to decode ESG and to have you know the the communication you know a world the community the colleagues from the communication world in the room drives home the point that ESG is a journey where no one should be left behind and that gives a you know an important you know onus for you know colleagues in the in the room from the you know from the communication communication background the point that Rajiv Ji made is an important point about you know building narratives and a couple of you know points that I would you know highlight which which should be you know important in our in our minds also you know picking up from some of the points you know for example trust that synergy was mentioning or you know what what Sonal Ji was talking about you know net zero for a for a steel industry you know come to think of it you know you you prod Sonal Ji and she would you know start talking about you know why you know deep decarbonization would be you know so much so much required for the Indian steel sector given that you know the demand is is growing at such a rapid pace which is where I I would believe that ESG becomes an important you know constituent for this growth narrative if we if we you know go back to you know the cover decisions of the of the the Sharma shake you know climate annual conference of you know by by the United Nations there it is very very clear that you know the the new kinds of investments the new manufacturing you know capacity that their country like India would need to build would need new kind of you know financing and this financing this the way in which the you know the capital markets are today you know analyzing their investments pretty much you know like the the startup ecosystem you know example that you heard of are today considering the ESG framework and the role of the of the communication team to you know to translate you know complex data into into the ESG ESG framework would be a very critical you know element for us to look at you know how the you know the the the the connections are made and you know the narrative is built without you know leaving out the leaving out the details it has been 10 years from today where you know the security exchange board of India had mandated you know the top hundred listed companies to you know publish business responsibility report and we have had been an integral part of you know the the national voluntary guidelines which was the foundation for you know the the business responsibility report today the BRS are you know the framework that you see and if you should and I would urge the the communication you know you know colleagues to also keep a you know a sharp eye on the international sustainability standards board in Sharma Sheikh the ISSB you know celebrated the their second birthday and this is a framework that would bring in you know consist consistent information and which is where you know the exposure for the the communication world to this consistent framework would bring a sea change which which actually will make you know Sena Sahab's or you know Sonal Ji's work a lot more a lot more easier so that you know agencies like you know Rajiv Ji and we kind of you know can bring together more stakeholders thank you Haroop my next question is actually addressed to both Senaji and Sonal both of you look at let's look at reputational risk corporate reputations you build corporate reputations in one way we build it with you and Senaji builds it in a different way and in a more business integrated way so I just really like you to talk about what is the impact that ELG has on reputational risk so the fact that now the questions are coming on so recently in fact the before yesterday I had a question from business standard how much are customers willing to pay extra for my stainless steel products if I guarantee that it is green in process and it's making and the answer is zero so currently the dialogue that's happening on ESG and it is so pertinent but if you go out in the market with your green product and you expect it to give you a premium that's not the case right now however that is the domestic scene internationally you can also we believe claim a premium but the reputational risks are correspondingly much higher so you cannot be seen as a corporate yes yes irrespective of you know the fact that the market is not going to pay you anything extra for your green steel you'd have to be process oriented in a way that within a few years you are targeting net zero all he quoted the BR SR reports in fact I've been I wasn't a PSU for almost 10 years and half of my work was only compliance communication so all of these compliance communications you would take you know half of my working hours and it was so important for the government the back then now what was important for government back then has become important for media today and it is so important that even in interviews you know I was recently two years a year ago I was at IMC interviewing someone and I saw an IMC professor here and one of the girls asked me what are you doing for eradicating waste you know I know that steel industry has water discharge or effluent discharge what are you doing to contain it and it was impressive so you can imagine what is the amount of reputational risk or advantage that you can gain from ESG effort actually nowadays you see a lot of the younger generation voting with their wallets they don't buy environmentally harmful products and so on and so forth yes yes so the talent retention that my fellow panelists they don't want to work for companies which are not compliant yes they want you to they want to know about what are the targets that you're choosing what it was is the environmental goal that you're running with so profit alone is no longer a fancy thing and that is why I talked about the decadal shift ESG and all kinds of philanthropic extra profitability work is now in vogue and you have to be seen with a as a company with a conscience and there has to be proof of the pudding just talking is not going to cook rice now well certainly I mean I'll do that but before that let me just say something about ESG you know I mean as I said it evolved more as a philanthropy and so and so forth but today when I look at ESG now each of these components environment social and governments each of these components are strategic and very important for the company now if they if a particular company focuses on environmental issues means if they become more energy efficient more resource efficient if they minimize their wastage etc it all translates into higher profit so it's not just that by focusing on environmental issues you are doing something good in general all of that can actually translate into a meaningful exercise for you which ultimately shows up your bottom line similarly look at the social aspect if you are focusing on the social issues then it does it's not only a reputational I mean like you know student when in IMC asking are you a zero-waste company so that again is something reputational but otherwise also I'm saying when you are vying for customers we are no longer in an era where our markets are protected there is a you know a severe competition there are number of players for the same product and if you are vying for customers so if you provide you know something to them whereby they perceive you that apart from doing your business you are also taking care of various issues whether it relates to the labor whether it relates to employee compensation whether it relates to employees well-being or whether you you know take up some activities which you know helps people living in and around your factory area all of them actually help you in terms of you know not only grabbing the attention of the customer but actually translating them into your customer so all of this again plows back to your profitability your top line and so on and finally the customer you know the governance issue even the governance issue is important because say for example the startups you know for many startups when they go for you know a round of raising investment many of the investors would like to know that you know do you have a strategy to protect the company from the risk which arises because of the issues now if you are able to articulate that if you have a strategy in and around that then probably investors would get more interested and you will be able to mobilize funds far easier than otherwise or maybe you will be able to mobilize funds at a much cheaper rate of interest or a much cheaper cost than what you will otherwise so ESG if you look at from that perspective is a pure business strategy it is no longer philanthropic it is a pure business strategy if you integrate it into your operation it is a win-win for you as well as for your customer investor everyone else now coming to the question of credit rating now credit rating typically is about debt products it's not about the equity so debt products means that whatever loan you raise either through the banking channel or through the capital market that is what gets rated and the way it has evolved that ESG issues or ESG risk do not play out in the near term they play out over the medium to long term and debt instruments typically are not very long-term instruments they are three or five or ten years so till now it was not something which was very much getting factored into the credit rating analysis but increasingly as we know that the vulnerability has started increasing because of the climate challenges etc etc now most of the rating agencies have started looking at it and also the regulator which is Sebi has come out with a framework where it wants the credit rating agencies to incorporate this particular risk aspect into their analysis so we are incorporating that into our rating analysis and wherever we find that this is one of the key rating driver for the credit rating we mentioned that and wherever it is not we certainly mention it in our press thank you Smita would you like to take up what you originally were to talk about ESG and startups why should they talk about it why should they get into it right at the start yes see like us again Sunil sir just told the starting line on this topic too investors are definitely driving it there are quite a few LPs the limited partners who have when they are giving 200 crores to a VC 400 crore to another VC so let's say there is one big LP who's funded 10 venture capitalists and put their foot down that if you don't have an ESG report you are not allowed to invest now we are not talking about investments series see and about we are talking about as simple as even angel round or series A and they put their foot down that if the VCs don't get the ESG due diligence done you're not going to give the money so that's one you know key driver which is pushing this trend in the startups which are very early in their stages still looking at ESG however if you look at it from some other stakeholders like customers you have EU taxonomy SFDR all in Europe you have the security exchanges in US which is putting their foot down on lot of these regulations around climate and ESG in India we have our say be an MCA working towards BRSR and national guidelines for responsible business conduct now this BRSR while I think mr. Malik was mentioning about it we started in 2011 with hundred companies today it is top thousand companies but a very interesting thing that not many people might have read or if they didn't pay attention to is a statement which says in a time frame of potentially five years we are looking to expand this to all businesses so if we don't want that includes listed and unlisted we don't know they have said all that could as that could be simply as if you're registered as a business you have to follow it so once that clarity comes in what all means we don't want the situation that happened in Europe that the moment you know a lot of lead time was given to businesses to adopt ESG and they still did not prepare and suddenly overnight thousands of businesses were under penalties for not following it not disclosing it so startups are I mean ESG is relevant for them for of course getting opening more investment gates more customers if they want to work with Western companies more talent acquisition because employees want to see the business with purpose I think it just overall does a lot of investor safeguard also as simple as not having a fire NOC which looks very simple that you are building the work where you're not working does not have a fire NOC okay when we do ESG due diligence for startups we put our foot down if you don't have it we are not going to give a clearance why is that because if your assets are burnt down the investor loses the money so we are playing for the investors so we lot of these things are driving quite a significant awareness and adoption essentially it's an awareness of the risk of operating in a environment which is so uncertain from a climate social social and governance perspective that you're looking at putting these risk management beautifully said I'll just take one minute to also highlight you thanks for adding governance to this world because if governance is not there then it doesn't matter how good you are doing on environment on social on anything if you're not having a trustworthy transparent business then you might as well just forget rest of the things yeah thank you so Rajeev my next question is to you how to how does media look at a company which is considered ESG compliant versus one which is not I mean let's just say that ultimately it's the media which is the arbiter of good companies versus bad companies in a certain way in terms of perception so let's hear it from you I don't think those factors play at in media whether it's a good company or a bad company it's a compliance to be done that is the present media would apply generally so if they are doing the compliance and which is generally taken by reports there's not lots of investigation happening anywhere from the media's point of view but whatever stories are happening there will be fear and even for which are happening same metals segment particularly so those are happening but overall it's taken as there is a report by an expert which could be a consultancy generally so that's taken at face value so it's a very pretty simple kind of a thing is a story which comes to them and if it is backed by data and is backed by a narrative so it makes its way otherwise I don't see media being an arbiter of it is a good company or a bad company but in terms of if there are any violations which get reported so those are the ones they would I mean at the end of the day for media it's a good story or a bad story now good story is you know violations a good story for media that's what it is and it could be across anything for the matter so that's what goes in here thank you Raji. Arup can I ask you to take us through this whole issue of green washing and how do regulations look at that and how again I'll come back to Sonal and Sunil Ji for how that impacts reputations. Yeah and thank you thank you Gayatri for you know bringing the issue of green washing green washing here. Increasingly we have seen that you know with the the labels ESG labels from you know mutual funds you know from global funds being stripped off because of the you know the enhanced you know scrutiny that happens today on you know the impacts that you know the short-term impacts and the long-term impact that some of these funds you know claim I would you know strongly believe that you know the role of the of the the communication you know colleagues the the role of the you know the brand brand management you know teams becomes very important you know now now think of it you know it is just you know we are just three months away when you know the final community from you know India's G20 presidency would come out and unlike any other G20 presidencies today India has the Sherpa track on finance is looking at you know ESG there is a dedicated you know Sherpa track on energy transitions which is just not looking at you know technology you know transfer you know technology financing and you know and new energy technologies but importantly looking at just transitions and just transition is a you know is a is a concept that you know resonates very well with the the ESG ESG framework and just to define just transitions just transitions is ensuring that when you transit from fossil fuel based economy to a cleaner economy we take everybody alone we don't leave anybody behind so what a rubies talking about is a strategy that India has been very keen on to take all our marginalized and communities along with us when we transit by creating more green jobs and green a greener economy thank you so much so if these are the things which are you know getting at the the highest pedestal and where you know so you know I would argue that you know nobody had you know stopped you know India to imagine what would be you know the the size of the Statue of Unity you know the the Eiffel Tower or the you know the Statue of Liberty was never you know a benchmark that you know I need to you know compete with that or I need to you know build that today India is in a is a different league in the in the global discourse which gives you know a very high degree of responsibility to you know how the the court com the media management you know teams you know view act and you know a progress on the on the ESG ESG side because at this this point of time and you know with the journey be easy I mean not at all you know to decipher you know a financial balance balance sheet we need we needed a century to you now understand you know we just look at earning per share from a balance sheet and we know that you know what is the financial health we now today refer to the credit rating so a triple A plus so you you don't need to you know spend anymore you know time and energy to explain that that gives out the the message so from today where we are now to you know to bring ESG to this you know I'm becoming an uniform language you know the journey would be you know you're super hard you know there would be a huge degree of you know frustration Gayathriji from what we also understand is increasingly ESG will will become a part of the MCA 21 filings and if that happens you know from now until until that point of time and how do we you know you know adopt you know digital digital taxonomy on on ESG would be you know would be a key role without the involvement of the of the communication and the media team you know that won't be that won't be possible and and Gayathriji last it kind of you know these buzzes actually reflect the kind of you know diverse panel that you have put across where your time is running out but the perspectives are you know still to me thank you thank you for saying that a rupee just very just give me two minutes I'll wrap up so we've just got into I'll say we're not even scratch the surface of the subject but unfortunately we've been asked to wrap up but I will ask one final question of Mita and Sonal going forward we see with our clients that speaking of ESG talking about ESG putting it in the forefront of communication is resonating increasingly is that the way you see things going forward in fact I think communicators have a reason to cheer and so do all the agencies because our role has become very very important in this age of ESG so these are the kind of events we have to sponsor this is the imagery that we have to get into these are the kind of community partnerships we must be into it was not making as much sense to them as it is making today so and like Mr. Sinha said these are not you know short fixes to your image or you know just to your visage this is how I should look but these are long-term goals in engaging your community better in retaining your employee better in having motivational levels go up in having overall safety hygiene standards be equitable with your global counterparts and while yes media is like Mr. Tikur rightly said you know it is very interested in any negative ESG report that may come out on the positive side what media is interested in is any of the green funds that you can gardener bases your ESG scorecard so there is also immense scope for publicity in this area thank you so much just quickly add I think forget about businesses and everything media has a very powerful role PR has a very powerful role in fighting climate change if you could keep a check on businesses and not let them speak about things they don't do if you could punch holes into their claims and I mean look back in 2021 2022 whether it is H&M whether it is Deutsche Bank whether it is Volkswagen but whether there is so many these issues which we have come which have come up I think you have a very strong role to play in this and startups businesses use their story on sustainability as a marketing tool and that's good to do that's and there's no harm in doing that but if as as a communication team which is sitting on the other side of the table I would really like to see more people cross verify cross check every claim that has been made and then publish it and say yes these are the good people and these are the people who are actually harmful for the society because they say they're doing good and they are not yeah thank you yeah I think before we close just one final comment I as a part of you know a group which had rated Indian companies on ESG parameters and launched India's first ESG index on a national stock exchange it no longer exists by the way now but there we had studied the top Nifty 50 and ESG screen top 50 companies and we found that in terms of returns if had you invested in Nifty 50 and had you invested in ESG 50 you would not have compromised on your return the returns which Nifty 50 is giving over the years is exactly the same as the ESG 50 is giving however once the 2008 crisis happened there after what we found was the ESG screen companies were giving you even higher return than the Nifty 50 so if you invest in those companies which are ESG screen companies then as an investor you do not lose anything on the contrary you gave just to add to what you said sir if you look at a recent RBI report it says exactly the same thing that ESG compliant Indian companies have performed better on the bosses than others I've been asked to wrap up so I will I look forward to hearing more from our community the communicators community about ESG the need to implement ESG because a sustainable business a sustainable business out there is what makes our business sustainable thank you so much thank you so very much ladies and gentlemen allowed a round of applause for this very very powerful fact session could I please request our panelists to kindly join us up front for a group picture and also please welcome Mr. Harbindar Narula CEO VTAPU wellness to present a small token of appreciation to our panelists