 Why did we bring Orobe to this place? Can you please shut down? No. Why did we bring Orobe to this place? Why would you allow me to drop here? This is what we need to talk about. You're an Orobe and you're good. You're disturbing our life here. Why are you being like this? You see, I am also alive. Not too often. Okay? That's why I'm shouting right now. Please get up here. Please go. We want to be peaceful here. Let's see the emotions down. Let's talk. I can see. Please go. We need to meet peacefully. Yeah. We need to meet. Today, it's about to look one another in peace. Please stop. Please. You are not creating a world like this. Please go. Please go. No, I don't want to argue with you. No, my mother. I'm sorry. Let's not react. Let's remain cool. Stop it. Go out. Please. Don't look one another at me. Don't put this like this. Let's see what procedure you want to do. Priscilla, what are you suggesting? Priscilla, what are you suggesting? Priscilla, just please. It's all working properly. You're right. It's all working properly. Can we just stop it and then we have a better... Yeah. Come to talk with the ICBs and let all the people that are here come in and speak. We can speak. We can speak. We can talk. We can try to speak. We can talk. We can try to speak. Can we interact? Only if you just... It's not in my country. Priscilla, I'm like you. Can you go stop it? Please go stop it. I cannot stop it. This is not possible, actually. Priscilla, I'm saying it's not in my hands to stop it. If you can hear me, I will just keep you on my hand. Please go stop it if you can. Who is she? Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. Laksha. In my hands right now, I have the ability right now to hold the space for us to share what we feel. They want to do that. I am not here to go and... But who can stop the JCBs? I don't know JCBs. You know better than me. Nobody can. You know better than me. Nobody can. Not in your head. I don't know. Nobody can. At that event, once you come here, they can't because... Please. I request you to come sit here and take a seat. As I said, the JCBs, there is no point. I wanted to come to this meeting. There is no point. Right here. But now I cannot because... Okay. Sorry. Okay. Can we... So we have... Right now... You are probably on discussion. Okay, friends. Right now we are expecting the working committee members. ATDC members. And the foundation members to be here so that we can... So that we can speak. We can... And I also know that there are a lot of rumours flying about. So we need to also know what the truth is. We are here to directly talk to the people who are doing things. This is why we have gathered. And I request the people who want to... Who want to be the protestor, who want to be the activist. There is other place you can go do it. Yes. Actually it's just a pity. There is only two choices. I don't feel comfortable in your story. I never felt. And I speak maybe to quite some of the other audience. I am for the development of oil. Yes. From the beginning. But it casts it simplistically into two camps. And that is being planned today. It doesn't create a unity that is ever necessary in the city. So what am I to do? Just go there? No, I'm not interested. Sit here? I'm not interested. Because we're not doing it together. You don't give me and maybe many other audience a choice to stay in the middle, to stay centered. And to speak for something that is higher than what's happening right now. My request is why can't we do that? What is so important to plan two things at the same time? I won't go anywhere. I have to leave now. I would have loved to be part of this. But my heart tells me that I'm made to choose here. I feel that choices are too limited. There's a future that is a different source. If I had an opportunity, other people would always stay quiet. To speak about that, perhaps there would be a solution. But if we continue with two camps. Just very, very, very short key. I've seen this so many times. It has been recognized in the cognitive sciences in education as soon as you tell someone you should do this or that, it doesn't work. It never works. It will never work. It creates immediately a resistance in the mind of people. Do this, do that. You are wrong. I know. Sorry if you felt that I said that. I did not say that at all. Yeah. Okay. So right now, Narad is here. And let's start off with some meditation and let's see if we can hold the space. There is one sound that can bring all of us together in harmony and unity. And that sound is all. It is universal. It has the power to change and to transform. And the secretary asked me if I would chant home with each of you. We are all children of the Divine Mother. And it's that where we have to take our true poise. Not in intellectual arguments, vital arguments, but in the harmony. And we can have that harmony with Om. I ask you please sing Om. Yes, this morning and perhaps it would be better if we start off from 4th December. The event that was the first day, I believe. And let's start off from there. So yes, I was part of TDC. But on that particular day, I was out of Auroville. I was in Chennai and I came late in the night. And I was told that there was to be some clearing in the night time. And it was in response to certain actions in the daytime. And that it was already all organized. So I had come from Chennai. I did not know what happened in the morning. So I had to then bring up to myself to the full understanding what happened. So this is what happened in my view from TDC's point of view. I am saying this. Tell me if it is wrong. So in the morning, it was organized that it will be cleared. Also, I would like to also to be fair on, you know, I would like to also say that TDC from Tobi, the mail went to Youth Center saying that it will be cleared on Monday, on the 6th. And suddenly on the 4th itself, the team was sent in the morning. Why it happened, perhaps it's... I mean, the more I try to look at where the problem is, why when we already announced on the 6th we will go. Why did we go on the 4th? It seems like it was a case of misunderstanding. I mean, Foundation Office did not know that it was already announced on the 6th. And I was out. So it's a kind of case of misunderstanding. And then on the 4th, in the morning when it was the JCBs were sent to clear off from the community, there was a lot of mobilization and people came about, organized themselves very quickly. And they came to protest. Protesting was not a problem per se. In Auroville, we all can do it. The problem as far as I have understood from what I've learned is that adults came with kids and they put the kids in front of the JCBs to stop the work. This was kind of considered as unacceptable from all point of view. Not just safety, at many levels it was wrong. So I gather that the decision was taken that, you know, if it is in the daytime, if Aurovillians are to put the kids in front to stop the work, then we need to choose a time wherein this does not happen. And along with this, because they were putting themselves at risk and putting the kids at risk for safety precautions, this is what I got to know when I came back to Auroville at 8 o'clock, that the police has also been mobilized. To Corden of the area, to Corden of the roads, the access roads to Youth Centre. And then there will be JCBs which will be sent in the night to do the job that was sent to do in the morning. So I was there in the night when this happened. From TDC, perhaps I was the only one at the time. So I went with the understanding that, and I also saw that, that the police were Cordening off all the access points and the JCBs were sent in. Was it a good sight? No. Was it easy to see? Not at all. Because I was also the one, I mean, if people from Tree Care is here, they know that I've been talking to them very actively to pursue the options of transplanting the trees. And I had really wished that we could do this without even, you know, destroying even not even a tree. But at the time perhaps. So in the night, the action was taken. And I was there. And I also tried to, I mean, in my whatever capacity, I tried to see that because I came late in the night, if it could be avoided, if things can happen the other way. But it seems that the decision were already taken. And it... Okay. So in the night, I was there. And when I saw that when the JCBs went immediately, the kids who were there, the younger ones, some of whom were in the schools in Las Vegas, became crying. And they were pleading, and they were pleading me to also come with them to stop this work. And I stood by, I said, I cannot because this is beyond me. This is already being brought forth. And I also suggested them not to confront the police. And if there is to be done something, we can then do it tomorrow morning. This was not the moment to be an activist. At least that's how I looked at it. And I thought this is not my moment to be an activist and jump in front of it. But I stood there for a while. And I left. So this is my side of the story. And this is... I mean, from TDC's point of view, it was not decided by TDC's point of view. This was announced by Foundation. And I'm not sure how much working committee was in the know. Maybe this is the time you can come in. We were aware of, and we were part of all the lead-up discussions for the clearing, which had gone on for quite some time. And it was understood that after we came to a decision, the clearing would happen because there is also a strong call from the community that the crown is done. And this has been going on for many years. On the 4th of December, I got a call around 9.30.10, from Tobi saying, can you please come? We cannot handle it. So that was the moment. I had no awareness of what was happening. I went on the site and then we saw the JCB's and we saw people hanging out of the JCB's children in front and everything. So people being at the same time very perplexed how to handle that. And there was a lot of heated. Everybody basically got shouted at. Whoever came to either intervene or to help or to say, let's continue with the work, let's just go on. The JCBs are there not to hurt anybody, it's too clear. But it was just very strong, very agitated atmosphere. There was no way we could continue. It was called off. And it was agreed that we meet. So we arranged from working committee, we arranged for a meeting at Sao Chu. So people came there. And that was just myself. There was Srimoy and I think Arun. And basically there was a very strong outcry against us saying, you cannot do the meeting, you're not allowed to speak, you shut up, get out of the way. So we did. And it remained very agitated, very aggressive that whole meeting. And basically we were asked to resign. I think TDC to resign. Well TDC as far as I, you can see they were doing their work. And this is a work they have been assigned to do since, I would say a year and a half. And people have been going towards youth center to try and clear. People have been, you know, sent home. The people who came to survey were thrown away. So this is, it's not something which happened that day. This has been building up. And after the crown walk I thought I sensed amongst a lot of people that there was a kind of momentum that we should go ahead. And this thing of clearing, there were only three pockets which needed to be cleared. One is in youth center, one is in Dharkali and one is in Centrifield. Or a center field. So at that point TDC engaged in a lot of conversations with each of these people. And for example Mita and Tapas finally agreed to move out. And a lot of effort went to finding a very nice place, a home for them which has been handed over to them. They have the keys, they are moving in. Also Pachuma and LOD, they have a, I think a bathroom or something which is placed on the crown. So they will move it at the back. Agreements have been done for that. They will be held financially for that. So these agreements were made with TDC. With Dharkali I believe they've had extensive, somebody in Srivatsakan afterwards filmed me in. They have had extensive discussions with them, how to take it through. There are some possibilities, there are some things still to be worked out perhaps. Youth center has, there was a lot of effort. Hello? Yeah. So youth center we had I think at least two sessions there. One very long session. And at that point we even walked the path, what they had cleared. And it seemed that we were actually coming to a decision. So this is a little bit, and then things got stalled at some point. And there was this, what we heard, I think this TDC, Srivatsakshu take over is because you see TDC has parallely been working on a DDP. They've been working on all the details. They've been working also with professionals for the crown. And there appears to be a very strong misunderstanding about the crown. And there's a huge fear about that. So Lakshay had organized something called reimagining the crown, which was a very interesting session where people gave their ideas. It was a participatory thing. There were very good ideas coming through to totally blow this idea of a road going through the middle of the town, something like that. It's really something eventually for the youth, that the youth can take over as their urban life. Something that they can build. And we had sessions with Nahar and Nankita and Lukritia. And they came up with very good ideas. So I don't know where it kind of shifted off. Of course people got taken by other work and other exigencies which had to be fulfilled. So that got stalled for a while and then this came back. I will give it to Srivatsa. Okay. So when we went to this Sautu meeting, as I said, the main conclusion is that we had to resign and there had to be an RAD to call everything in question. Then at night, I must say some, you were aware, I had no idea what was going on. I woke up in the morning and saw my WhatsApp and it started immediately from 5 o'clock. All I will say is that if we had been proactive in this whole thing which has gone on for 20 years, if not more, if we had been able to take our own decisions, if we had been able to agree, there would be no police over here. Not one person, definitely not the working committee wants the police here to do what it had to do. It's not that I'm condoning anything, that's not the point. I'm saying it's time for us to turn the light back on us and see what we can do to change this. That is all. Before you came, this is what we started off with. The interaction, the purpose of this is we all know what's happening and it's not something I don't think anyone in our room or in Auroville really is happy about it, the way it's been done. None of us are. Let's be honest about it. But it's a surgery and that has taken place now. What we need to ask is how do we avoid coming to junctures like this where we have to make difficult choices and involve other people? Why can't we let working groups do the work so that it doesn't ever come to this point? Srivath sir. The overall thing I think about the youth center, I think I was part of the youth center where we were negotiating two days before, even till two days before. In the evening we met under the ban entry and it was a very nice actually feeling because we had agreed that the youth center would be relocated, we would be providing funds, we would be assisting them in creating the vocational training area and NOC would be issued. So I was very much part of this conversation day before yesterday to make these things happen. So this is where I come from. And I have been handling most of the planning which we have been trying to pick it up. We have been interacting with Balakrishna Doshi's team from Amtabhad two weeks before I happened to go and meet them. I had a long discussion with them in terms of preparing a detailed development plan. And we also had a meeting, a very interactive meeting two-three days with the Town and Country Planning Organization of India which is a nodal body. And we also happened to have various discussion with various experts in the field. Now one thing everybody unanimously accepted is that 16.7 meter has to be respected. This was one which no consultant had contradicted because of course we also wanted to be sure whether are we doing a mistake, is it something we are doing irrational or is it something emotionally driven. So we just wanted to look into it and see how it could be done. So the fact is like when Doshi's team and everybody said 16.7 has to be respected. Now the details is something that is part of the detailed development plan which needs to be done. So that's a different issue. Now youth center, I can assure you that until day before yesterday evening we were constantly working on how it could be done on a very peaceful way how we could collaborate and do things together. So what was also concluded is the tools would be they were ready to take these tools to ensure that you know the things will be removed by them in a very harmonious, in a very sensible way I would say. So that was the conclusion we had a day before yesterday before all these things turned out of control. But at the same time I personally feel and I am sure all of my colleagues also feel that preparing a proper DDP would really help us in removing this misconception. But also one of the things which what we could find when we are discussing with many of the government officials is horrible, we had given a promise to the government and to the people and to the world. And yet as a return we had taken back certain goodness. They said you people are enjoying the goodness but where is the promise which you people had given to us? It's been too long you have been talking about it. So I couldn't give them any answer in return. The only answer I could say is look we will come up with the DDP and then we will move forward with it. Maybe I can take questions. Yes, Suryanth. I just want to point out now right now in our space So just for everybody to be aware right now in Dharkali what happened in New Centre this morning is continuing. Now I mean you see on all levels we need to bring reason to the fore and consciousness from the divine is the source of reason. Now I'm actually I'm not really a pro crown or anti-crown person. For me the most important thing is peace. Because peace is the indicator of the divine consciousness. In very rare instances you might have to use force but generally as an individual you must be at peace. Only if you're at peace can you think clearly and are you clear within yourself. Now my issue I don't want to make a big issue but it is a big issue but I don't like making big issues let's say that. But the issue now is what's happened is that the secretary or the working committee somebody has empowered to bring 100 or more local to intimidate and support him in the clearing of Vaisi and now Dharkali. So what's happened is it's a very scary situation to have all these local, they're all paid and they all have no idea what's going on here and they have nothing to do with Orval actually. So as I said, I'm not even against clearing the right of way necessarily as long as it's done with reason and respect and with the right nature with the nature of Orval with the nature of decency with intelligence so that we can be proud of who we are. But if we do it in this way first of all in years to come you won't be proud of how you've achieved it and secondly you're creating fractures within our society so what will happen is that you will end up with a road but you won't have Orval anymore because the substance what is Orval is us all of us we are Orval we are Orval and the plan is supposed to house us so the plan is also important even the plan might have some occult significance absolutely so let's do that but we must do it in the right way so actually I came here because a lot of my friends are now faced with a JCB and again with Anthem going completely berserk like a madman in my opinion surrounded by a horde of local supporters and I lost my train of thought and they're there right now we don't know what to do the kids are sitting in front of the JCB there's another impasse and it's simply not sensible and the last thing I'll say now is that there is a solution there's a very simple solution actually for anything that we disagree upon it's a very very simple solution anything that we disagree upon we go to an RAD and all of us whichever side we are on if we want this or that we must honor the voice of the RA so I have no preference as I said essentially all of us and once we all accept to listen to the RA there will be no more of this or there will be a lot less of it let's say and that we can really move forward and build our world with the support of our dear secretary who really I sense is a very good person you know it's only that I'm worried that certain narratives have been portrayed more strongly than other narratives and I worry that reason has been lost anyway let's go for the RA let's have the RA vote what do you guys say the president's assembly let the president's assembly vote thank you 4th of December I was there at the spot when things were picking up and I was trying to literally beg with each person they are not destroying for us we are just clearing the path and let working groups continue with the work don't stop them it's just going to accelerate into something not so nice and just see don't do that there was no way that one could communicate there was just simply no way especially when the children were put on the JCB and it was just getting more and more dramatic and it was very clear that even that we talk about RA which is I totally get you but even the decision of RA in front of it our working group where they have gone to do some work we stop them what is the statement we are trying to make let me complete now so that this got it was a very sad scene I am not part of working committee or any of the group I am just going to tell you how this went on you can shout if it is also all the problem please all of us be shout then let's just shout we all have been wanting to speak in many many months and we have not managed to listen to anybody and we are all wanting to have new RAD and one more residence suddenly our incapacity to listen to each other have been profoundly on our face but we still want to believe that we are going to fix everything and everything will be right everything will be all right and I am very confused in that space we were with the youth center team in Martin and spent hours of work and there was a beautiful report was created by them and the next morning I went there 6.30 in the morning to support because that was written in the later what I saw 7 o'clock 7.30 we were calling at the stage and people begin to talk and they begin to by 9.30 everybody was confused all the time then for a toss all the writing then for a toss and the youth were crying and I saw adults were manipulating youth I don't know to say that but I saw it I saw in front of my own eyes and I couldn't believe that this was happening and now what happened nothing happened in the youth center they were very clear they wanted to they had sent the letter as well I have a copy of thing I was part of the meeting and then after 48 hours JCB had to be brought in back again because system just collapsed I don't know what to say I am not the one people are catching me to say that I will stop and I should do this in that it is us who has called for it we want to do it together we want to do it together we want to listen to each other but somehow we are not able to well Umair just said exactly more or less my experience on Monday morning I read like everybody that email sent by the youth camp and I was deeply touched by the call of harmony together asking the help of all of Williams can you come and help us to shift the youth camp that's what I did I went there to really help shifting together with them the camp in my capacity unfortunately as you rightly said a lot of talk was going and I was wondering where he's gone that marvelous call for unity to so beautiful words only words and not only this a fact moved to another fact another fact at the end it is totally another story of the first little finger which has been moved and I said up to 11 or something like that and when I saw that there were no way I could help and that was Tuesday okay Tuesday morning nothing happened so what is there I think we are at fault and do it what force because I see it as a force I don't see it as an individual but force are taken all the people to go towards looking at each other they were hate I was feeling hate and I'm here for harmony I'm here for fraternity I was baffled and I must say when I went away with my cycle I passed through the youth they were playing a guitar acting or discussing with us they were away from it I don't know it was not the youth which were manifesting it was we are looking at each other what do you think are you going to be in my camp there is no camp we are a family thank you I request the people who are raising the hand to come here it's better would you like to come here please meanwhile it's better for the camera and it's also being telecast good afternoon we are an horrible a spiritual place we are here for consciousness but I am wondering consciousness can be only when we are at the level of spiritual and not egoic level that means respecting accepting everyone and not thinking ok he has this intention that in general something like that interpreting what I really wonder about you are saying residence assembly agitation will not help agitation will not help and that is what is happening now and what I am seeing also few people have a political agenda that we have to see also when we take all this out then it is possible that we can come together if it is not possible as long as we don't respect and we say we don't want this what is planned now stop everything we are waiting for 25 years I personally am 17 years here I believe our will really need progress and growth for that we should have good education system which has been blocked more or less multi-versity project is now whether we want to go or not we are out ground road same problem so either we stop all this activity blocking stagnation we have a choice or we have a choice for progress and development I personally am for development and we should not we should think about it at present many people have such a some comfortable many of us they are comfortable having good villa, lot of space which they will not have in their own country so this comfortable zone to live and what I personally again and again request everyone we are talking about consciousness consciousness for me start with respecting accepting and respecting if we don't accept others the opinion of others if we don't respect the opinion of others and don't listen we are not conscious 53 years has gone of experimenting with consciousness it is for waste let us do a change here thank you thank you tapas just wanted to take on to what Anu said and what Surya came up with some of the suggestions fill your after Surya I think none of us are happy the way things have gone but if it has happened instrumental in making it happen because we are sleeping since more than 20 years and not being proactive in wanting to build the city so unfortunately and sadly it has happened the way it has happened we have to learn to accept it take it with a good good attitude accept it, accept the mistakes yet respect whoever has taken the action, respect it they have done it with good intentions behind, not with bad intentions and we have been prepared for months that we are going to go forward about this ground road and the ground work has been done by the working committee, by the TDC and it just happened now to avoid this kind of surprises in future and there I want to comment and said I think we need to be proactive not arey, sorry we need to be proactive amongst ourselves in our system that we first do our homework and only when there is emergency we call an arey we don't need the arey, sorry we have to be proactive we have to work together on development plans maybe on every twice a month we have the TDC presenting we are going to go about call the residents assembly, call the concerned people inform the community educate the community on all the zones on the development zones and in this last two weeks or one week whatever has happened I am very concerned from long long time in the community on the development of the international zone the remains and the development of the cultural zone and just to tell you the fact on the cultural zone I was part of the cultural zone group in the 80s and 90s and the whole plan has been designed by the mother developed and written down with minutes notes of the minutes and all that during one of the meetings we learn that the youth center has started in the heart of the cultural zone and the people who started it's fine we will be removed I think how many years have passed by since then yeah so maybe it's time for us to develop the cultural zone the ground road, the international zone please wake up guys we have to be proactive and develop the city thank you and to just add on to that educating ourselves as a community I think it's really important that all of us also I mean we all read Charter to be true Aurovillian along with it we also need to read the foundation act read the master plan this is not going anywhere it's the fact of Aurovillian life also so please read these documents know for yourself if you have any doubt ask the working groups they are bound to answer you Suryan please she didn't believe me that I was next that's okay don't I'm not a hooligan so the first thing that I just I'm surprised it came back to me because I wanted to address a simple thing that Uma had said about the RA anyhow I've kind of forgotten what that was but I just want to come back to essentially the energy that I would like to extend and that I would like to represent and that I believe in that I not believe in but that I know is our future so first of all that is that I really want to extend love and care and respect to all of you to everybody here and I fully agree that we must listen to each other we shouldn't get loud, we shouldn't get aggravated absolutely now when it comes and I want to just come back to the RA as a community you see my wish is that we are peaceful that we are harmonious together that's what I want I have next to no agenda I would much rather be playing my music and inspiring people to love the divine that would be my wish now we have fractions in our community right and for me and I've been in the council now for several months the only thing that can bring us together is a communal decision so only by us putting it to a vote and although we know the mother did not necessarily condone voting as the only way there are much better ways to make decisions really anyway we won't go into that but what we have now the only real tool we have now to bring us together and that is my only intention here my only intention is to bring us together is to honour the RA and there's a narrative that I hear going around is that the RA's representation is not high enough that the RA is a waste of time we've wasted 20 years or 50 years in my opinion look I'm a younger person so I've been watching the RA since I was a child and I remember watching the adults and many of you are those same very adults and thinking how they really didn't understand what or was about it wasn't that the thought was more that they didn't understand truth and for me truth starts with harmony so you prioritise being in a good connection with someone so respecting someone loving someone caring for someone not arguing with them above your agenda above your personal preference which is exactly if any of you have read the mother she told us to we must surrender our preference so you must start with the care with the love with the harmony and from there we can build so my last point is just please don't undermine the RA the RA is really our only hope for harmonious progress alternatively progressive and one side of progress where the half of Auroville is not invested in it and tries to fight against it we can't build Auroville in my opinion if we are fighting with each other if we're constantly fighting so let us please use the one tool that we have the RA and let's not undermine it because when you spread this narrative and this is the last thing I'm going to say if you spread this narrative that the RA is of no value because there's people out here that's the last thing I want to say is that it has no value so let's not spread that narrative because it is not the truth the truth is that the RA is very valuable to us and it is our answer thank you yes so we cannot reinforce more the RA is very important also kindly keep it short there's a long list now people are waiting to speak what was the topic of this meeting by the way was it about town planning that's what I came for and I just see a long thread of justification for what's happening or yeah I'm here and I think it's a good example of we come for something and actually something else is completely happening is right now we can see we can hear that in Dakali there are gundas they're taking over and we have been called here for something but actually of course we just cannot do any significant work here it just looks like there's a kind of a sect inside of Oroville which has taken power and I mean what's the point being here we have years years that we just the same thing it is absolutely wrong I strongly strongly disagree that Oroville has been stagnating even in the last years this is a narrative which is which is awful it's just politicized instrumentation the dream goes on and it's not dead and it will revive or thank you for so I want to go back to what Huma and Jean said because I also went on Monday morning to the Yut center in fact I was calling the night by an air but I would have got lost so I went the next morning and I was very touched when I saw in the internet their will to collaborate and asking people to go and helping them to take away the things and that's why I went I also went with my camera and then something very strange started happening so people started proposing just anything and everybody must know that Paul Blanche Fleur who put up that proposal in fact was trying to cool down the atmosphere was trying to go back to the resolution taken in the night Ang also helped and some people were very wise the proposal was very good the proposal was crazy but at certain point something happened that a young woman that I don't even know started speaking everybody knows that I'm not an orator just what I'm talking comes from above and then she started instigating the people saying who is the secretary, what is this power what is the government of India and so on so at this point I woke out but I want to say that there is a tremendous awkward force here so the girl might be an insignificant person but a very powerful person on the contrary doing these things here I will not mention the name in fact, Madam Secretary is not informed of what certain people truly are she is not informed that there are people who believe that there are incarnations of Cherubindo and the mother's force and I hold responsible the working committee and the Arabic council for not informing her about these kind of things because what's happening right now even in darkly or before the youth center is also part of this game the council has a complete narrative I was awarded the blind copy and I know so all this is not just that it is unacceptable it is unacceptable that as we are supposed to have some knowledge of integral yoga that we are not aware that the mother is born with the titan here to destroy her work and there are certain people who embody this force and when people are after money and power they are particularly open to this kind of force so I am the one championing for the town, for the avatar model town putting up the exhibition the way Roger wanted but in front of what's happening here now I don't want anything of this and I posted something in the internet said that the only way to build the town is the psychic being yes we go back to the psychic being all of us whatever the camp this town will be an azuric town by the way technologically totally incapable of building the real thing as in my exhibition as Roger wanted the town to be built I also want to add that I mentioned Port Blanche flower but NEA is another one NEA is the one who first launched the idea to relocate the youth center is in the forest group and this would have also been my dream so you have to understand that nothing is black and white that people who pretend to be white and they are absolutely black and that people on the other camp were just fantastic like NEA I would rather like to believe that there are no camps we all are here for Ogo sometimes when we go across to certain sites really there is a palpable feeling of us versus them and the way they talk I mean I did not come to horrible for that and I believe nobody came here for that also there is a little bit of self-reflection that we all need to do in that sense that why do we give that feeling away Shivaya I have a simple question to Shivata you see I have young people living around and so I have lived this whole turmoil and also how in the night they came to that peaceful resolution and all but they were actually then pleading to the TTC to give them a building application because they lost trust they are panicked so I did not understand I still don't why there was not given a kind of yes we stand behind you you can carry this material there or something they felt like oh and if we dismantle now we will be then in two days here no there is no place for you or if we go into this vocational training area and it's actually nearby citadine where we felt so for so long already that we are not welcome what do we do so I have been living now day and night with this dismay of not knowing how to solve and then naturally all these voices come in because you see I only saw that that slice I agree but we have something is not cohesive here because we end up with with a terrible thing somewhere I mean for me this morning I went there you know I've been actually one of the initiators of this place not that I believe I mean I was not putting the heart there believe me so but the way I was I was really shocked today I have been hardly ever shocked so badly and it reminded me of the 80s with the gundas from the SIS I'm really shocked so not you see I'm really I want us to develop let me plant this I'm not an anti-town person but we need to do better in this so Shiva Shiva I understand the point from where you are coming but I think it's important that you understand the facts also like I said day before yesterday I think around 637 we were in the banyan tree and we had worked out which I believe is a kind of a win-win situation for everybody and I deeply appreciate the stand of the youth when they said you like to harmoniously co-create something and this is exactly what we wanted and in the night 11-30-12 I had to send a minute saying this is what had been created and morning next day we sent out to maids saying after discussing with so many people that we would like to give an NOC and start this process so all these things happened within a matter of few hours where you know TDC has been legendarily portrayed as being very where we take so many months to do right and in the past we were moving all these things on the hope that things could really happen so I Shiva I like I said that's an agreement see I am not the only person given but I personally put my whole thing and there was an agreement there was a return commitment we also spoke to the secretary secretary also signed on it so I think that was much more than an NOC what we gave right when the secretary assigned I myself had personally signed it so I don't know let's the bureaucrat this is what we get stuck know sometimes it gets stuck to the bureaucracy but here we are actually trying to move forward and then why this whole thing we are giving it more I don't think so any NOC has ever a secretary signature and this one actually had the secretary signature this this letter boss that is exactly what why are you stuck to the bureaucracy what do you want what do you want is something saying thumbs up your people can move ahead we gave it more than what you asked for see so that see yeah thank you no wait excuse me yes it's a long list I want to say that my parents have been involved in ORVIL since the beginning I grew up in ORVIL I think landed up in aspiration community when I was around 15 then I was told yes you are allowed to stay in aspiration till 10 years and then the city will be built and you have to move it was kind of a shocking thing for me I have to move away from aspiration after 10 years but this thought has been all along in my mind when is the city going to come when is the city going to come and for the last 40 years we have been discussing drawing discussing going on on I don't know now I feel there is something going to move and I really want to be positive and thinking something will move finally something will move towards the city another thing I want to say here I don't know how many of you are aware the development approaching along with the ORVIL road from Kuala Kuala Lumpur all shopping plaza has come if strong action doesn't happen to acquire the land and more support recognition from the state the master plan if this doesn't happen next year we will all be enjoying shops along from Selitur to Matsumandir Matsumandir entrance it will be easy for us to go to Matsumandir do the meditation and have tea up this is what we want another thing I want to say if ORVIL doesn't build the city the private people will build the city in the next few years not another ten years in the next two three years there will be towns built then we can say forget about this ORVIL city and the private people when they start building the city you will know how messy is going to be you cannot talk it's like people come there is much freedom you will not get can I finish that I am adding slits up you don't know the consequence how the government will react look there will be no respect for any trees anymore and forests any private developer who is landing up in this area you can see that the first thing they land up on the part of the piece of the land there is no tree so I think it is high time we wake up and go forward today this morning the last few days have been hanging out at the youth centre and this morning I went there this afternoon I went there the youth they are in a shop but at the same time they they are in agreement they are finding it difficult at this moment to see where they are going to go how they are going to go forward I had chat with some of them and few of them also came to me because they know that I have another view then you know what is happening now which they are against but most of them feel that and are confident that things are moving and they will find their right right space another thing yes I just wanted just one bit few days back I was part of the youth centre whatsapp group and I was putting my point of view so they also get that picture of coming up the city and all that but suddenly they blocked me to a post on it then I went after them the admin saying why do you do this you know I have a different view when there is a problem of COVID and I can come inside and serve you vegetables and all that that's okay but then you don't want to hear anything from me they hang up twice they hang up I kept kept going with that please then Frederick came inside answered the phone that number I told Frederick it's enough of this nonsense twisting things and taking forward wherever things are going if you don't address this issue right away things will go in another direction and I told them the thing is that we have advertised done a whole series of things on the TV and the politicians locally everywhere and now the villages are concerned they are saying we have solved the line too for Orville to grow in line with the mother Shri Aurobindo but what is happening now what is this fight happening there if you don't solve any problem if you don't solve this problem within us the village will have a right to come inside they will come and it will be a mess after like today we were not able to deal with that 100 people coming today more more turn up and we can't take care of ourselves we are in a total mess thank you sorry for taking long just to add some positive thoughts to that it's very valid in 80 DC I can say that this is not the only work we have been working on many different directions and one of the direction that we have been working on is to secure the land of Orville the city area and also to secure the green belt we are really an inch close but we cannot also diverge all the information we are so the kind of momentum that we are in we I just wish that when I was part of 80 DC I just wish that the community would understand different positive things also not just fall for the sensational topics also come forward and work on the other topics which are not so Instagramable sorry to say Ganga you are are you still here? No, Judith No, I actually put my hand up a while ago to respond to something that Suryan said about wanting us to work and respect the RA the RA the residents assembly but for me the root of this whole problem is that we fundamentally do not respect the RA the last plan of orderville has been ratified by the RA many years ago it has been approved by the governing board and as far as I know I might have this wrong it's even being gazetted by the government media when we decide on the spot when action time is there no, now we don't want it now we are going to have another residents assembly meeting on Selva Selva Raj has just said it we are shooting ourselves totally in the foot we cannot this orderville that doesn't grow is totally unsustainable all the people who are like green workers and everything their mantras are all about sustainability and environmental and ecological but in fact following that path is totally completely unsustainable and is going to lead to a total environmental and ecological disaster the only way to keep this place in its spirit of ecology and environmental sanity and even very progressively is to go out and build this city where Selva had the most amazing dream there's a sense now everybody must say oh it's very old fashioned but it's still completely unbelievably futuristic and the trouble is that we ourselves and certainly our children have never really learned or understood the significance of the whole aspect of what the galaxy stands for what all that plan is all about not just in terms of roads buildings etc but what it means in terms of a place to live in human unity as the cradle of the supermind and I'm afraid I want to also a little bit go back to what Paulette said at least I don't quite see it the way she does but I have been coming in my head all the time we have a charter we have always since the beginning day one of Oroville publicly pronounced to the whole world the big label that is Oroville it's a city of 50,000 people on a galaxy plan with a charter on the first line of the charter says Oroville belongs to nobody in particular it belongs to humanity humanity is a horror but to live in Oroville you have to be a willing servitor of the divine consciousness and right now we are showing what happens when the willing servitors are no longer willing and then there is a real there's an intervention happening here which like Paulette I believe is coming from somewhere else and it's really ugly really painful and it really hurts but we cannot avoid it if we don't get on with the job thanks Judith there is a there's a request from the recording team that either you guys please come here and speak or at least stand and speak hi everybody, I am Eric living in the forest in Barca just a very simple question recently, very recently the forest group sent the DDP for dark alleys and please forest that has been worked with professionals quite for a while and that respect the 16 meter wild is this accepted or not very simple question very simple, two days ago for dark alleys and please that will release a lot of tension it don't seem to be accepted what in our parlance DDP is it's a it's for a zone and it's not just for one little road yes, they sent a detail they proposed an alternative route and the team looked at it and they also then consulted the infrastructure team which recommended that TDC goes ahead with the existing plan that's what has happened Satyaka, can you please so, I am Satyaka Noravil since 2010 so first of all it is I would like to express that what is happening today is definitely not it's very sad we are all sad about the situation, the present situation especially the presence of police the other day I don't want to justify but I would like to share a few points to say that it is a sort of unfortunate consequence of a long process and maybe too long so I just wrote few points here before waiting for the for this meeting to start all our working groups supported is supported by a complex process I have always blocked from the beginning of the manifestation of the city based on the master plan and based on values and visions of the mother the point one after 52 years we have not even been able to build the right of ways the crown, the radial, the ring road which is the base around which the development of the infrastructure and the building of Oravil can be done as per the master plan and the galaxy of it was approved by the ERA in 2001 in 2001 with a large majority 1999 so it seems quite long and we always say that our decision should be respected that decision we do not want to respect we want to create other decision process and the importance of the master plan is very much there in the foundation act as well the point two we have not secured and protected the land of Oravil we entered in endless pallabas which went on since 11 to 12 years since I am here actually the land use regulation and protection was blocked and not allowed to manifest just to tell you how good we are for talking endlessly and not taking the good decision in favor of Oravil the point three our economy is not aligned on the vision neither we are far away from the fraternal and sharing economy we all know about it point four our decision making process is also very shaky 10% of participants in a vote is considered as enough to decide about important matters for the governance of Oravil we want to organize an RAD based on this, this is not serious 10% of participants suppose 10% of participants have to vote and suppose there are 60% who are in favor of some important decision it is just 6% of our population again I am saying it is not serious and that is why I am not in favor of RAD of course I am in favor of the assembly but something has to be done regarding this this is to say that we are in a state of status quo for too long which is totally detrimental for the future of Oravil the present status quo is not tenable if we do not move forward toward the vision and to manifest the city then we are putting in danger the wonderful adventure called Oravil for which the people of Goodwill have been invited for so very happily if you allow me I would like to read one text from Pashi Ji which is sent this morning no no no it is a small text it is a very short yes so I would like to share one statement because Pashi Ji could not come today he apologized, he is sick and he has sent some reflection maybe to be shared today I felt that it could be shared he is telling about he is responding to some person who are who have written something about the situation of today and he says I am surprised that you are putting oil on fire that does not benefit a professional of your status to not forgetting the fact that I was the first one from Oravil to approach you and participate in Oravil project what Pashi Ji is telling actually in substance the present controversy which has nothing to do with either environment or watershed management but basically a cover up those who have used the generous hospitality of this unique project to perpetuate classical ownership discussed as a stakeholders to prevent the development of a sustainable urban habitat using the excuse of present realities that he in fact have been created by the same so called stakeholders usurping the role of the founders the mother who expected willing servitors of divine consciousness to give her a gift of a beautiful city to be a living laboratory to work towards human unity by demonstrating a positive way of life based on values and trying in the 12 petals of the matrimonies thank you thank you he has come prepared with the documents so he is better prepared than you Satika I would like to first ask two questions to Surya never Surya which you can both answer with a very simple yes or no the first thing is do you believe that the RA should function as defined in the Auroville Foundation Act that the RA should fulfill the function it has in the Auroville Foundation Act okay, second question do you believe that what the RA decides should be honoured okay this is what the RA has decided the RA the foundation act says that the residence assembly shall formulate a master plan for the approval by the government the master plan that the RA prepared is here it is this one and this was approved by the RA with some 90% majority in 1999 it is this document the GP was to approve it that is what the Act says but what did the GP do the GP said listen let us just check with the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development of Government of India whether this can pass as a master plan or not so they sent it to the ministry and the ministry has an organisation called Town and Country Planning Organisation T-C-P-O they were in Auroville just last week again of course not the same people as them but the new team and that team was headed by Dr Meshram some of us are still in touch with Dr Meshram even today so they looked at that plan at this plan and they said yes beautiful the drawings we don't want to disturb but the text is not really a plan it is an aspirational text I have read it again and again it is a very nice text it also covers all the subjects water, energy sustainability but it is not really a plan in the sense saying what will happen when so they translated this into that the drawings in this the layout of the town is exactly replicating there this shows the circular crown road on 18 pages circular crown road is written there on 18 pages it shows the radios it shows the outer ring but they have changed the text so what did the governing board do after the ministry came back with this feedback it had meetings which were also attended by our brilliance and then they gave feedback on the draft which came from T-C-P-O I just yesterday went through the correspondence which fortunately somebody had and then finally they approved this plan in a meeting which was held in the ministry of HID where people from Auroville were also present field faith was there Mr. Bala Bhaskar was there governing board members were there Secretary of Ministry of Education Dr. Mechon and one person from the Tamil Nadu government was also in that meeting they approved that plan this is called the perspective plan and the perspective plan is an overall plan it needs to be detailed some people have argued last couple of days how can you make the ground road before you have DDPs the answer to that question is the ground road is a master plan road not a DDP road the DDP will define what happens on both sides of that road what type of design what type of density in fact density also has been given here but you have to detail it for more doing what you say namely to honour the array then we have to honour that plan that lay out and not discuss it every time when we do a few hundred meters of ground or anything else the whole discussion starts afresh galaxy, mother the plan and we decide we start discussing the whole history once again the DDPs have been partially prepared but some architects of other world who are now critical of this have themselves built and designed buildings without a DDP all the buildings along the ground solar, kinship, library, mar, mach, min arca, calpana are built without them being a DDP of the ground so when that was built it was fine not without a DDP but when the ground ROW is cleared we need to reverse the DDP so we have also a lot of double standards around here I saw a meeting a lot of postings around that questioning a budget of 50 crores which apparently is the first installment or a larger budget so let me tell you what the budget was that the album billions residents have proposed in 2001 it's here in this document so this document is not only the master plan it's also a development plan for the first five years which was a very smart move because you can't make a master development plan in one day so the first five years is in this document itself and that after adds up to 350 crores for five years now 350 crores in 2001 with the inflation is equal to 930 crores today 2001 350 crores is equal to 930 crores today so where is 50 crores 930 crores so that shows that the amount that is being discussed about is actually a very small token advance have you ever calculated any one of you what will be the cost of this town if you want our world fully to be built Luigi and I did it once on a napkin you remember Luigi we had a dinner and he invited me for dinner which is very rare and we decided to calculate for the back of a napkin what would the cost to build our world and we did some very simple formula came to 25,000 crores at that time now even if we take that amount to be correct 50 out of 25,000 how much percent is that? 1% so we have to start seeing in the overall picture of things and not just take one little thing out and then highlight it and hype it the last point is about environmental impact when you discuss environmental impact you discuss the impact of an intervention here on a wider environment you don't discuss the impact of an intervention here here of course that's negative if I cut a tree here the impact on that place is negative but you have to see the impact of that intervention in the wider environment so if you see for example the crown ROW 16.7 white 4.3 km long is 0.36% of the master plan area 0.36% the crown plus the 12 radials plus the outer ring plus the international zone loop plus one access road from outside to our wheel is 1.64% of the master plan area are we not able to keep 1.64% free from trees and buildings what is the big deal we have a green belt which is three times the area of the city our green belt is 15 square kilometers in that plan now we all know that the green belt will finally not become 15 square kilometers for the simple reason that our villages, that our private development let us say it becomes only 7.5 kilometers 7.5 square kilometers finally the city has also 50% open and green so you get 2.5 open and green in the city 7.5 effectively in the green belt makes 10 built up in the city is 2.5 so you have a ratio of 1 to 4 name you one city in the world which has that type of ratio so I would request all of us to see all these issues in the wider context and not in the sense of city, my fans, my gate, my structure no, let us see it in the from the helicopter view and then of course come back to the field to implement the work we are getting emotionally excited we look because we look at things in isolation not in the full context and we don't have our facts clear so my request is can we all have a deep breath read this master plan compared with the master plan of 1999 realize that what has been approved in drawings is exactly the same as what the RA has approved they have only changed the text and they made it into a plan and I am eternally grateful to whoever decided at that time I don't know who it is whether it was killed by or somebody else not to approve our plan the way it was prepared but to first refer to the experts and get it translated into something that you can actually work on don't forget also that we have raised funds we have bought land we have attracted volunteers to come here the government of India has intervened to implement this nobody would have given a rupee to our village it was not a plan there so we have to be true to the plan we have also my question to you was are we going to be true to what the RA decides I am glad that you said yes so let's do it how do you decide to do this work period thank you to one how small I keep it watching thank you so much how generous, that's very generous of you I am going to check you so you know what comes to me a lot when I am here is that I feel information and clarity and exactness is very important so when I heard Judith speak or when I heard Twan speak this setup here doesn't allow for debate not really because there is just too many people with different messages what I would love to propose for future if we really want to get to truth is to suggest representatives of different points of view to sit and debate in front of the rest of us because I couldn't answer any of the questions one thing I want to say is I should have said this first and I was planning it the whole time for me it is a crisis of consciousness right we are in a crisis of consciousness sorry so let me okay let me we are in a crisis of consciousness we are still there now that what is going on so let me finish let me just finish my thought crisis of consciousness implies it is not exactly the same thing but it implies a crisis in intelligence as well and what I am suggesting is that actually the forum that we have here usually for the GMs doesn't allow for the most intelligent thoughts and narratives to come to the fore and actually face each other so that we can find resolution and also share with the community the outcome of that discussion right so what I propose is that we should have debates with venerable people or people that certainly represent certain points of view so that we can come out with a clear understanding because when I heard what I noticed a lot and this is the last thing I will say for example Selvraj and Dudith there are always gaps there are little gaps so there is a picture but then maybe 5 or 10% of it is not quite true and therefore its value is largely lost thank you and the last thing just a very very last thing is that it is very true it is your third time speaking let the others speak also but it is my first time in 40 years sure there is more to come Luigi yes absolutely I know that so these are just to be debated absolutely thank you the next plan is destroy the balance thank you I see people are in the mood to move out and we have put 1 hour 40 for this introspection and I want to first thank Narad for calling down some peace in the room it was very helpful in a moment of crisis I want to thank also many other people who intervened like to have Selvraj, Dudith and others for bringing back into the true axis for which our villa has been thanks me I am going to come actually my whole thing intervention is about you I am not forgetting no no apart the jokes apart the jokes we are all puppets in the end of much bigger forces and it comes from all quarters so how to my question today is how to come out progressively because the wounds are very deep from the present crisis we have gone through many crisis matrimandia the planning and others society we went up to the supreme court and today we are fully into another internal crisis which can jeopardize our development very much my inner prayer is how to call the inner attitude and the outer expression we can move forward in an intense way madam secretary was sitting here but she went away but I would have spoken to her to say listen already I have formulated in a letter to all the working groups including you that Auroville foundation ATDC working committee and if I forget someone help me council ok we cool down and environmental area we cool down and we even stop the present intervention because this is really painful I have already told privately madam secretary she knows my position which is not only mine it's of many people cool down till the end of the year to get passive and once again to lose time and no to work out what does it mean to make solid agreement you have tried in ATDC but every group include myself from the greens from the foundation from our ATDC and planning group we have fundamentalist and we have hardliner if we do an introspection today it's about identified intensity in the softliner sorry if this is a special language but is to say we go softly in development no way to have the gcb destroying in this way we do agreement very intensively because there is an incredible flexibility in the galaxy I have here he went satyam here something we support sorry sorry with support was to say the 2007 resident assembly agreement which says what is flexible in the galaxy and what can be effective improving evolving it's mark because they were the last year and this question we have inside our hearts now I come to the point can we but now there is not enough people we need another situation where we reflect but I would like to send to you as a member of ATDC to other bodies their reflection all together ask madam secretary to stop this intervention even today is very painful this is very painful that they enter with gcb this we don't want in our view please not stop you pause till the end of the year meanwhile we see where we can reach agreement in many fronts intensively night and day we can work and get back that fire which we have carried for many years to build a flexible city to build a green city that for me would be to revive the dream thank you thank you I believe three days ago this is what happened till one o'clock the discussion went on and the agreement was reached mass bulletin was used to publish and then the next day morning itself the whole deal was called off ok so I have a long list but the people have vanished so should we just if you want to speak last word and then we go for a... we are talking into the desert I would like I would like to clarify one small thing I have been following the process also I have been following the process very closely and when the youth took the decision to surrender I had tears in my eyes when I was reading it and I went afterwards also to the meeting I participated in the meeting I see the confusion which happened there but if we would have had or have given ourselves let's say one week maximum 10 days to clarify some points where the youth actually did feel secure enough if that could have been clarified with you and with other working groups then actually they would have completely surrendered and we could have in peace and dignity we could have dismantled the youth center that's really my perception it's a pain that's really my perception and I was also there this morning for everybody you look at this and it's painful it's painful you have tears in your eyes when you look at it and then I wonder why didn't we wait for one what is one week, what is 10 days in 50 years what is it so I don't know why so quickly somehow the GCBs were put in that escapes okay I'm not an expert I'm not an expert I'm not an expert till then I just want to say that secretary has tried since she has come to explain and meet all the youths who are in YC youth camp youth center and she has been explaining apart from the ATDC members so unfortunately they are really good children youths but they have been instigated by the adults so unfortunately they will never never stop if it is not happening suddenly with her acceleration let's close with some positive note yes that was on today we are Thursday that was on Tuesday I was there when the secretary came and she walked around looked at the buildings chatted with people with the children, with adults and at the third moment she went deeper into the area together with Paul and I followed and basically Paul was clearly showing to her the spot where the youth had agreed to shift actually the kitchen and the dining area to that spot away from the ground road so that was shown to the secretary on Tuesday so the question is if that goodwill was there from the youth, from Paul who has been extremely helpful in this whole process if that was there why this morning why did it happen why couldn't we wait for one week sorry I am repeating myself so a very few people left to hear me and I just I would just consider that whatever comes through me is to be heard by someone here that's why I am speaking and witnessing a very heavy energy in Orville which I have never experienced in my journey of Orville so far my name is Prerna and I am a long-term volunteer here in Orville working I am an architect but I like to be a servitor of this place and do some work around and yeah there is a very very very heavy energy going around and we have been witnessing that for the past one week very strongly personally I feel that whatever is happening is has been creating a lot of clarity considering the way the foundations of Orville was laid it brought together people like we have been reading about charters we have been reading about what mother has said, what Sri Aurobindo has said and everything we know it's a place for nobody in specific it's a universal land for everyone to come together bring, they brought their soil together and they planted together and everybody in union in unity and what is happening in this moment we can clearly see even the kids can clearly sense that it is creating divisions today morning was an act of dividing people people going around and saying we are like really wrong spreading wrong messages about Orvillians and Tamilians and disrespecting each other which is not true and we are talking about unity we are talking about the charter the dream of mother are we really acting from that space is my question we are all trying we are all trying yes but then it is but we are not implementing that in this moment yeah and like for what I personally feel like from an architect's point of view I would say about the design of the city and the master plan and everything I am just aware that okay there were some alternate plans being proposed and but we are not considering that at all but there has been some alternate plans that has been proposed and we have yeah I welcome you to come and learn about we are happy to share all the documents learn about you are an architect seems to be a nice bright mind there are so many it is not so black and white also we as I said none of us are happy about what happened today it is just unfortunate that we came about the community at this level that's what we need to reflect on but my personal suggestion would be that I think there needs to be more of inclusion and coming together because that clearly is not happening in lecture I know but nobody would say that that's not going to happen that's not true it is not for inclusion we all are it is for unity it is for inclusion it is for everything but in this moment we have been experiencing in person in spirit in energy every day for the past one week to ten days clearly it is not happening in this moment and my intention is to just my intention is just that that needs to happen Prerna no doubt we have hit a rock bottom let's try to get back up this is what we should yeah shall we spend two minutes in silence and