 Contrary to common belief, women do not prefer a dad bod. Sorry, gentlemen. That is false. It is not true. I know right now there's a- I thought that was true. No, well, that's not true. Let's talk about it. Or are you changing the definition of what a dad bod has become? Well, I think if you're a dad, then you have a dad bod, right? But no, all joking aside, there's another, I don't know what it was, a study or a poll done and women said that they preferred a dad bod. By the way, these studies, when they go deeper, it's like, who would you prefer to have a one-night stand with, a thick guy? Who would you prefer to have a relationship with? Right. Dad bod. So we got to look deeper into this. It's the safe guy and the dangerous guy. Well, isn't that because he's more likely to stay faithful if he's not as attractive? Isn't that what the- So that's the insecure female, I guess, hypothesis, right? That the female is insecure. So if a guy looks too good, that she won't want to be with him because she feels threatened, right? That he's going to attract too much attention. The other theory, which I think is true, and if you actually read what women say, this is probably what it is, is that women perceive a fit guy, somebody who's really fit, they perceive him to have a type of personality and a type of narcissism. So because he looks fit or really fit, they think he cares too much. They make all these assumptions. Yeah, he cares a lot about himself. He's not going to want to pay attention to me. He's too into himself. So it's probably not somebody I want to be with. How much truth do you think that is? That's a great, great question. I think it could be true, but I also think that somebody- Because we know this. We know people who are fanatical. Very political correct way to say that. Of course, it could be true. I'm asking you, what do you think? Do you think it's more common than not? Do you think it's rare? I would say it depends. If the person has been doing it for a long, long time, then they're more self-aware, more growth-minded, more disciplined. They're a better person. If it's like this short-term kind of thing, especially if they're young, then yeah, you might be dealing with somebody who's obsessive about how they look. What do you think? All that. Well, isn't there less people with six packs than millionaires? Yeah. Right? So I would think- I mean, that's a very small group of guys that are very obsessed with a very specific goal. I mean, if that's what we're talking about is these guys that are obsessively fit or we're talking about just fit in general. No, like pretty obsessively fit. They're just- Single digit body fat. How about that? Well, in this study- I think the majority of them, I would say, probably lean a bit more in the narcissistic range. Well, we have to be careful with assumptions because there's also assumptions that a millionaire or a billionaire inherited their money. They got lucky. Yeah. They're not really smarter. Those are false. Those are false. I think the point Justin's making, I think- I don't know. I could get behind that, that the majority is that. That isn't all. There's no exceptions rule. It doesn't mean there's not- People that are single digit body fat maintain that, have a very good healthy relationship with their image, their body image, with eating and training. Yeah, but I said fit bod, not body builder. I think there's a big difference. You said single digit body fat. Okay. Well, that requires a certain level of maybe obsession. Okay, so maybe we should clarify what dad bod and fit bod is. Yeah, let's get some characteristics. Body builder bod to me is sub 6%. Yeah. A ripped fit body to me is 6 to 9%. Even 10 could float in there, 10, even maybe borderline 11. A dad bod is 12 to 19%. They showed in these polls that the dad bod was- Like 20? 16 to 18%. Okay. That was a little higher these days. Yeah. I mean, that's where I sit round there. So I guess the 12, 13 range is not quite there, but I mean- Yeah. Okay, so back to your point though. Now, where do you- I think that there's two things here. One is it's misleading because people are going to hear this and be like, oh, chicks are going to be way more attracted to me if I am fat or if I have this, you know, quote unquote dad bod or whatever. I think the truth is if all things being equal, the fit or looking person is going to be more attractive. And what requires the disciplines and skills and practices that require somebody to be fit. Now, I'm not talking about shredded or obsessed. Just fit or good things, not bad things. That's the point that I'm trying to make because what they're doing is they're painting fitness. This is part of the game, part of the whole thing that we've been talking about here where they're trying to demonize fitness and they're trying to- So they're trying to make these people look like they're- And it's worked because now a woman looks at a guy, look, you go back in the 1970s and there was a man who looked really fit, women were like, wow, that looks really good. Now, all of a sudden, oh, he's a narcissist or he's got this terrible personality. That's because of the, I don't know, lack of better term propaganda. Now that- how do we paint fit people on TV and in movies, right? Self-obsessed and absorbed. Well, don't you think that the person who was, say, really fit in the 60s and 70s compared to someone who's considered really fit today is a big difference? Somebody who would be considered really fit, when you pull up somebody in the 60s and the 70s, like, I don't know, doesn't look single-digit body fat. Muscular, but not- No, they look- Impressive. And then somebody, like, there's a new level of, like, ripped in fitness today than there was just a decade and a half ago. Yeah, I- It wasn't like- I would say we'd have to- because when they show pictures, they're showing typically, like, a 10 to 12% body fat. They're not showing, like, an Instagram- shredded, you know, fitness person. It's like a fit woman versus an- like a social media- extreme, you know, type woman. Like that, you would also look and be like, oh, that looks like there's something going on there. Versus, oh, she looks healthy and fit. Yeah. So that's the- that's this kind of conversation that, you know, that's the point I'm trying to make. Well, is this article, like, resurfacing? Because I know this was- the study was kind of done years ago, right? The dad mod, like, survey, or whatever, of what girls preferred. Yeah. I'm sure- like, and that's the thing. Like, is that the current status? Like, I don't know that that was like- Here's why it's bullshit. I'll tell you why. When you look at what women would fantasize about, it's typically a successful, older, disciplined, fit man, okay? Because the people are associating fitness with narcissistic, self-absorbed, not going to care about anybody but themselves, that makes them unattractive. That's my point. My point is you can't make that assumption when you look at somebody. Now, you can maybe when they look real extreme, but beyond that, I'm talking about normal fitness. No, the assumption you would make is they lead a relatively healthy lifestyle. It would be a better assumption, is my point. Well, yeah. I mean, I guess where I was going was like the last, I don't know, five, four to five years has been not a whole lot of portrayals of masculine manly men in general. Right. And so to stick out, being a muscular physique, having any kind of masculine traits, I feel like, you know, would- if you would do a survey now for women, I think it would- the majority, well, at least the higher amount of women would be more attracted to the more masculine because of the fact that it's not being as publicly portrayed. Yeah. Okay. Look, if you're like, if women had their partner and you said, would you prefer, if everything were the same, would you prefer them at 11% body fat or 17% body fat? Would you prefer them strong or not strong looking? They would prefer the strong and fit. Yeah. Because of the perceived assumption that comes along with it. In fact, I did a post on it and all these women came on and they said exactly. That's exactly why a lot of these women say they like a dad bot because they think that the fit guy is an asshole. Yeah. When the poll says nothing about the personality, they're just assuming because of what we've been told or what is, I guess, put out there. So that's why this is an important conversation because there's a lot of guys out there who are going to be like, why work out? Look, first off, I don't think that's a good reason to work out. Dudes work out for other dudes. You literally will never... I mean, I don't know. Yes, but let me ask you this. Do you remember the first time you got a compliment from a girl? Sure, sure. Did that motivate you? I mean, sure. But to the level that guys work out, it's for other dudes, whether they realize it or it's subconscious, they get more... I was just having a conversation and ran into some old friends, really good friend of Katrina and her husband and he was telling a story about my physique like six years ago. What? And his wife goes, I'll never forget when he first met you that's all he talked about was your shoulders. And I laughed. We were actually having a similar conversation about it. Isn't that funny how no woman has ever said, you're an outlier when you walked in your shoulders, dudes recognize that on other dudes more than women pay attention to that level. Women notice... Yet we obsess about it in the gym thinking we're going to attract it and get more women because my shoulders have an extra inch in diameter. Well, I guess my point of trying to bring the current culture into the mix is it changes. A lot of the preference kind of changes based on what we see constantly in culture and if you're an outlier, you stick out. And so even back in the 80s, you'd have the whole glam thing where guys would actually put eyeliner on, wear the wigs, but they were all about getting chicks. It wasn't like it is today where it's totally different. I argue half the time it is still about getting chicks. I would argue that it's still like that. Truth. There's an angle there. We call that what's at the cuttlefish. Is that a real thing? No, but I want to make it a thing. Okay, I was watching the Discovery Channel and the cuttlefish has this... So there's a dominant cuttlefish. This is the one that's like the male that gets most of them, right? But then every now and then there's like a weak or smaller one and what they actually do is they change their characteristics so they look exactly like a female. And so they get close to it because the male like kind of... He kind of like hordes these women cuttlefish and so like for him to get access to it he pretended to be like a female, kind of works his way in and then as the male kind of goes off to get food or whatever, he's in there banging all the female cuttlefish. So I mean, they might be niche like that. We see this strategy in real life, right? With men, you see that for sure. The white knight syndrome and all that. Is that a real thing? Is that something? White knight. Oh really? Coming here to save you from all those toxic guys or whatever. I am a feminist too. And it's like you listen like, you're the creep, you're the biggest creep. I actually have talked to my daughter about this. I said, be very careful of a guy that says anything and everything to be on your side or your team and talks crap about every other guy and how bad men are and how poisonous they are. Because he's a coward and a snake. He's a snake. He's a cuttlefish. He's trying to get in your pants. He's a cuttlefish. He's a cuttlefish. Let's make it. Anyway, my point with this whole conversation is, well first off, physical appearance doesn't mean as much to women as it does to men. We know this is kind of a fact, but really it's about what it tells the woman. So why would a woman be more attractive to like a man who's a little bit stronger, leaner, whatever, he's more protective, probably more alpha, whatever they would say, but more able to protect her, healthy, probably. It's a display of better fertility. So all things being equal, it's not the dad bod. Now, can a lot of women forgive a dad bod or look past it because a lot of these other great characteristics. Well, yeah, that happens all the time. But I think this is like part of this weird movement. It's been happening now for like five years where they're kind of, from all angles, recognizing like fitness and health and muscularity, calling it toxic, calling it, you know, portraying dudes who work out as like douchebags and dickheads and meatheads and, you know, just aggressive and jerks. And it's like, this is a really, really bad mischaracterization. Some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Do you think anybody that is actually pursuing fitness or trying to get in shape at all like buys into that? I think once you pursue it, no. Yeah. I think that's people from pursuing it though, it might. Yeah, maybe. That's the thing. Maybe, I don't know. I feel like that's like just the people that weren't going to come to the gym anyway, don't care about it. Go on to any excuse. Yeah, it's just like, it's just another talking point for them when someone says like, hey, how come you don't go to the gym? Oh, it's toxic. I don't want to be around those gorillas. It could be the most welcoming place ever. You weren't going. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you weren't going. Well, I think sometimes that's all it takes. Sometimes all it takes is a nudge in one direction or another for someone to try something or not try it. Like if you're, you know, first off, making the decision to be consistent and working out, that's a hard decision for a lot of people anyway, especially if you're new, takes a lot of work and effort. It's new. It's scary, intimidating. You've never done it before. Yeah. And but you're thinking about it and then you keep hearing this stuff about, well, girls don't like it anyway. And it's full of a bunch of judgmental people. And if people know you lift weights, they think you're an idiot and a meathead and aggressive and you're this toxic person. Like, you know what? I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to go anymore. I think, you know, it was hard anyway. That's my whole point is it's like they're demonizing and creating propaganda in the opposite, which is crazy. Now I'm not saying we should worship ultra shredded bodies. That has its own dysfunction. But these poles that come out are super misleading. And, you know, for the reasons that I highlighted. What's up everybody? Today's giveaway maps anabolic the original maps program. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Also subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win free access, we'll let you know in the comments section. Also, we got a sale going on. Three maps programs are 50% off right now. Maps performance half off. Maps aesthetic half off and maps hit half off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. I got a pretty cool study for you, Sal. You probably know it, but I'm just going to get it. I'm like, it's nerdy in here. You know, it's right up your alley, but it's about these two astronauts. And so it was a four year study from NASA and they're twins. So they're DNA and everything is like an identical match. And so they're like used as an opportunity to conduct this really interesting study where they basically one of them went up to the space station and lived there for an entire year. And so it was able to then... Oh, I think I did read about this. Yeah, and so what they found was... What did the other one do? It stayed here on Earth, so they used them as a control. Got it. And so as it came back, found all these like interesting things that happened in terms of like telomere growth. Like so the telomeres grew on the chromosomes up while he was like floating around. He aged slower. He aged slower. Like there was all these like kind of benefits that they got like in terms of like preservation in space against all the stresses. So your body is like in this like crazy state of like gene expression for handling all the different types of stress, radiation, all these things to kind of protect you. Then it comes to Earth. And basically everything within four... I'm trying to think it was like two years, I think finally everything kind of came back to normal. So meaning that they don't know like how long, you know, like these effects are going to have, like what it's going to have on you going to somewhere like Mars where it takes years to get there and then come back. I don't know if it's like five years. Did the guy age slower or faster on the space station? I think it was slower. Because there's also time dilation. So what was that movie where... We just talked about this recently. Do you remember what you guys said? Like if you went, flew so fast in a certain direction you would actually go... Yeah, if you had a twin that went the speed of light, flew off for 50 years, you would get 50 years older and they would barely have aged. Yeah, that was always a theory. I don't know if that's... No, no, no, no. This is the... Okay, no, it's not just a theory. Do you know that the satellites that we use for GPS, they have to account for the time dilation on the satellite. So when it's beaming down to you and giving you information, they have to change the clocks ever so slightly. All right. Because they're moving at a certain speed and because there's less gravity. Gravity also affects time as well. So like when you get to a black hole, it's like time slows down and almost stops. Yeah. I don't know. They didn't really talk about that in terms of like him aging slower, but that... I mean, the telomere length and everything went right back to normal when he landed on Earth. So they were just speculating that it gave them hope that we're closer to going to Mars and coming back and being healthy as we get back. You know, because there's way more radiation like once you get... Did you find it, Andrew? Yeah. So I was reading into that as he brought it up and pretty much during the mission, the telomeres were lengthened on average for all of them. But after the mission, they returned back to normal and then six months and even after that, a lot of them were lost or critically shortened. Oh. So they got worse. Yeah. So temporarily better than when he got back, got worse? Well, the telomere's normal. Yeah. Returns to normal and then it got worse. But you know, being out in low gravity is like... We see the hell out of your body. Yeah, we know that. That's why one of the biggest things when you figure out it's like being able to train, right? Yeah. So they went into that a little bit too because it's kind of like, I mean, it's a very controlled environment for nutrition and for exercise regimen. And so they were like, it's almost like he was a little bit healthier than even his brother on Earth because he was so regimented. Oh. You know, so they kind of had to account for that too. Do you guys remember in school when it was a big deal to eat astronaut food? Did you guys eat that when you took it? Oh, yeah. It drinks some tang. Yeah. I think it's something like every like... Is it like fourth or fifth grade? I think they do that, right? I don't know if they still do that. They bring those silver packets and you got to try the... Dude, you know what people... It's like dog food, dude. When we were kids and of course... I thought I would have been okay actually. It was like freeze-dried strawberries. It was like a dry... I remember freeze-dried strawberries. Oh, I had some bar, I remember. Yeah, it tasted like a chalky ice cream. But when we were kids and before, it was a big deal to want to be an astronaut. Nobody talks about that anymore, but astronauts are crazy. They're not only some of the most ridiculous in terms of fitness people. Smart and physical. They're also geniuses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they also have a psychology that is so rare that they can operate under extreme stress. Yeah. And duress. So it's like this. It's like take the best fighter pilots, which are crazy. Fighter pilots are insane. And then the best of them can become astronauts. Yeah. That's how it gets. It's pretty wild. There was a good movie I thought that did a good job of telling that story. I don't remember what it was, but they taught... And that was the first time I'd actually seen the extent of the level of fitness they had to be in and then also their knowledge, too. I mean, they're just... Well, the thing in Mars, there's the physical considerations, but the bigger ones that they're all worried about are the psychological. Uh-huh. Because you know what's going to be like communicating with Earth when you're on Mars? You'll send a message. You ain't going to get... They're not going to get the message for a while. They're not going to get it forever, yeah. And you're not going to get it for a while. There's nobody to make you do anything. Yeah. You're on Mars. You're going to be there for a while because they're not going to go there and come back in a week. They're going to stay there for months or years. Yeah. They actually said the first mission they're going to try and fly around it and come back. Okay. But yeah, like that was like a talk a while back about like these pods and everything that they would have to like live in for a while and just stay there and wait. But yeah, I'd... Again, being cooped up with people, too, for that amount of time and like the whole social dynamic there. Yeah, they're worried about that as well. They did experiment. Why would we ever leave a planet that we claim to be so bad already for a planet that's far worse? Because we have... Because we came from Mars. There's something... That was the original plan. What's the logic behind that, you know? We're humans, dude. It's the same thing that drove the, you know, man to go over that mountain or to cross the ocean. You know, scary it would have been to cross the ocean hundreds of years ago. Thousands of years ago, thousands of years ago. Think about that. You don't know what the hell's out there. You're like, bye. Of course, especially if you thought it fell off. Yeah, I mean, you know. You ever read about Lewis and Clark and their expeditions through the U.S.? Yeah. Like, they didn't know... They had no ideas on the other side. They saw Grizzly Bear for the first time? Yeah. That's like a monster. You never read about that. Imagine seeing that and never knowing that existed. Like, what the hell is that thing? I think, yeah, it's that adventure. It's that exploration. Like, I don't know, we're driven by like... Because it's like the hardest thing we could do now. Besides going in the... I think the ocean is still like one of those... Yeah. We don't spend damn near enough like resources and scientific study in the deepest parts of the ocean. So it's like, what are we doing? Going all the way to Mars. Have we actually made it to the deepest part of the ocean? Have we? Not a human. Because I thought the pressure is too much, right? Not a person, but I think we've seen it. The sub, yeah, has gone pretty far down, but I don't think it went to the bottom of the Mariana's trench. I think it, you know, went into another part of it that was really low. Is that the deepest point? Yeah, I believe so. What's it called? The Mariana's trench. Okay. Who are you like, I know a Mariana or something. No, I don't. It's like, wait for the joke. What's her name? That's terrible. We know less about the ocean, about the deepest parts of the ocean than we do the surface of the moon. You know that? We haven't mapped the moon, mapped out way better. I saw it. That's crazy. Was it you who posted the moon thing that we're trying to turn into a satellite? Yeah. I didn't know if that was fake news and I thought it was funny. Yeah, we're trying to turn the moon into a star. Yeah, some big crater, they were like thinking of turning it into a satellite, and then the meme was like, yeah, the meme was like the emperor was like, good. Yeah. No, there's an international treaty when the space race first started that the world's superpowers. No one can build anything on it, right? Nobody can, yeah, nobody can claim the moon or build a base on it. Seems fair. Well, because think about the advantage you would have if you built like a launching station on the moon, nobody could have followed you, you know what I mean? Yeah. You'd be like, oh, look, the moon. You better watch yourself or we'll laser you. Well, did you see the news that came out about the supercows? Oh, I did. Did you hear about this? The supercows over China? Hold on, it's better than that. Chinese supercows. Yeah. Did you hear about this, Justin? I just briefly, I don't have no details, but yeah. So the average cow, I hope I get this number right, the average American cow can produce 12,000, I think, liters of milk a year. Well, I know it's like four to six gallons a day. Okay, that's right. You're the cow expert, I forgot. So, let's do the math here, yeah. But so what they did is they somehow bred cows. Yeah, okay, so I was right. So the average American cow can do 12,000 liters of milk per year. China has to import milk a lot. So they're trying to figure out how they can produce it themselves. So they created a cow, they bred a cow that could produce 18,000 liters of milk a year. And so they cloned it. So they're cloning a bunch of this cow. So you have a bunch of this cow that can produce all this milk. Almost double. 18,000 liters of milk per year. They're real the clone trigger happy over there these days, huh? Dude, that's weird. Like they're all gonna be the same cow. Yeah. Because they can make a bunch, you know? So you know, look at all these cows, they're all exactly the same. Didn't they get in trouble for the twins that had as a side effect were like smarter? Oh, yeah. What was that? But they were like addressing some kind of like genetic disease. What? According to them. Yeah. What happened? I didn't read about that. There was some experiment they did where they were curing quote unquote some genetic disease. And the side effect was that they, it's really smart. Yeah. And it's like, oh really? Yeah. First of all, you don't think. Convenient side effect. Yeah. Just using CRISPR and like, you don't think governments are doing that? Of course they are. Of course they are. You know what I mean? We're going to make like super. What do you think is going to be like the thing that comes out in the next like couple of decades that they were testing and doing and then it's revealed like it because it's been complete, right? Like the super cows right now, some super genes per se. Super cows. What do you got mammoths coming back? What are these governments working on? What are these governments working on behind closed doors that will be unveiled to us in the next decade or two that we're all going to be like, fuck. I don't know. Before you guys go on that, the Chinese researcher that did the genetically-edited babies, the twins, he was sentenced to three years in prison. Oh, so they actually slapped down on that. China. You know what? That's propaganda bullshit. They probably are like, hey, do this and then slap on the wrist. We are punishing him. Don't do that. Bad. What do we think would be revealed? Yeah, what do you think it's going to be? Do you think it's going to be like military-type tech? Do you think it's going to be agriculture-type stuff like that? Anti-gravitational tech. What? Just say that. Very specific, Justin. Yeah, I know he's like, let me show you the blueprint. We can't reconcile with all these UFO sightings. Yeah. They're everywhere. It's like, no, he talks about it because we're so distracted with all this crap. I think it'll be quantum computing. That's what I think. I think we're going to have a quantum computing, which you'll basically be able to crack any password or code or... Imagine that paired with chatGBT. That's going to be... Fuck. I know. You know what's funny? It's too hard to comprehend. So 10 years, as you get older, right? Five years, 10 years doesn't seem like that long. Like when you're a kid, like five years from now, oh my god, it's forever. You know, you hit your 30s and then your 40s, five years from now. Like when you're a kid, like the school year to get to summer feels like an eternity. Forever. Yeah. Feels like forever. But 10 years now seems like it's short, but also it seems like we're going to be so different in 10 years. Like right now if I say, what do you think is going to happen in 10 years? Because of this technology that we're learning about, doesn't it seem like in 10 years it's going to be weird? Oh yeah. Like way weird. Very strange. Yeah. I've stopped predicting the future. You know, that used to be my favorite pastime. Yeah. Like sci-fi movies. Like it creeps you out now. Yeah. It's weird. We're living in it now. It's just like, it's a bit much. Did you guys ever watch when you guys were kids? It was a great show on television. It was called Beyond 2000. Did you guys ever watch that? Oh, I do remember that. Yeah. I do remember that. This is how funny that sounds, by the way, because when we were kids, 2000 was like, oh my god, that's like the future. Yeah. It was like 1995. So it's like five years later. But the show was called Beyond 2000 and it would show like potential technological advances and what's going to happen. And stuff like that. So it's pretty cool. Popular mechanics. If you go on, I used to subscribe to them when I was a kid. I used to read that, too. If you go online, you can look up popular mechanics predictions from the 60s, 70s, 80s, or whatever. And they're really interesting. How accurate. Well, I mean, like there was one famous one that was predicted in, I want to say 1900s. It was like 100 years ago or more. And it showed people writing around what looked like segues, right? But there's like a bubble around them and they have antennas because they're like communicating with these like bubble vehicles. I'm like, oh, that's kind of weird. We always got there. Just a couple years ago. Yeah. I used to read those in like Scientific American and I was always into like, they started getting into like nanotechnology and I'm like, ooh, that would be like, it was always interesting to me because if you can, you like create machines and things like at that small of a level, like what that would look like and like what kind of like ramifications that would have, because they kept basically, they were thinking that a lot of innovation was going to happen in the medical world with nanotechnology first. But then also a lot of the textures and like different materials like that would have new characteristics and properties like you could, you could for instance like shocks like a certain material that would also be spiky or like really rigid or make it liquid just by like changing the property of it and weird stuff like that. I was like really into that kind of stuff. Have you guys ever seen the blackest color or paint ever? Have you seen this? I've heard about it. The blackest color? Yes. There's a paint that is, and I think you can buy it. I think you can. I'm not sure if you can. I think you can. It's so black that when you look at it, it looks like there's an absence of, like there's nothing there. Yeah. Like it's so dark, it looks like there's just a hole. It's really strange. You can look it up. There's a patent on it. Yeah, because there's been other artists that have tried to, yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, you can look it up and see what it looks like and it does look really strange. Oh, I've never even heard of that before. There's also a room, the quietest room in the world. Oh, I've heard of that. It's in Minnesota, right? Isn't there a certain time, you can't last longer than like a certain... I think the record was like a couple minutes. That's it? Because you go in there and it's so quiet, you hear your blood pumping and your... Yeah, some weird, like it almost makes you like have a panic attack or something. Because it's just... Too unsettling or something. Dude, speaking of panic attacks and all that stuff, what happened to the Grammys with the... What's his name? Oh, Sam. Yeah, what's his... What happened? Doing the devil seance. Oh, God, that thing again. Yeah. So, I heard... Everybody's talking about it, but, you know, we grew up in the 80s and 90s. I feel like that's used, like it's old. Yeah. Like, come on. Dude, you're recycling. Ozzy Osbourne was biting heads off bats and throwing devil horns up. Every rock band was like that. Now it's like all these pop singers. But it's funny how everybody gets up in arms. That's exactly what they want. What if they did that and everybody... Yeah, that's... Because they got attention. It's actually why... And it was a little nausea before that, right? Like grinding on devil, like lap dance or whatever. So, tell me more. Okay, I've already seen the, you know, conspiracy right pages already. Like, Pfizer sponsored it. There's this underlining thing we're trying to do. So, I've already seen like the fucking... Well, now it makes sense. Yeah. Connecting things. Yeah. So, you know... Like, I don't know... Pfizer sponsored everything. It's like what they've been doing forever. Music is doing the most. I mean, you know what I rewatched? It was such a great movie too. It was Elvis, you know. Oh, I love that movie. It's... To me... Bro, how far have we come? His dancing is considered lewd. Yeah. Now, little kids do that shit. Hip-shaking. Yeah. I mean, that's what we're always... We just keep moving the line. That's all, right? I mean, is that really what it is? Yeah, but this is not even a line, though. Like... Okay, if you're a kid and you're watching this, you're like, oh, my God, that was so crazy. Like, you don't know what you're talking about. Watch videos of rock bands in the 70s. They will make what he did look like a children's hour. Yeah. Okay? Like, they would come out and, like, like blood, and they'd sacrifice an animal or pretend to or sacrifice a woman and, like, pray and, like, make all these chants. Like, that was, like, shit they did in the 70s, dude. I think the... That was, like, kind of adjacent to, like, popular media. You know what I mean? Like, that was there and it existed. Oh, I'm just saying. But this is, like, mainstream, Grammy... To me, it has... That's not a bad point. Well, it has everything to do with social media. Like, it wouldn't get that much attention had it not been on all over platforms and shared all over the place. I mean, what is... Maybe you can look this up, Andrew. I'm curious, like... It's, like, a sacred cow. What if you saw the Grammys? Was it the Grammys? Is that what you said this was on? Yeah, the Grammys. So, tell me what the viewership on the Grammys today is versus what it was... Terrible! 20 years ago. I bet it is, right? Terrible. And that's the reason why this even makes the news, because social media... You know what they did. Because the right grabs onto it and makes the case that... Well, these are not talking points right now, yeah, to build this case. Yeah. And then I would have, you know... Okay, probably a strategy on their part. They probably have a PR team that says, hey, listen, I'm going to dress you up in a devil thing. Yep. We're going to do some crazy shit. 100%. We're going to offer Pfizer some good sponsorships. You know what I'm saying? Some good slots. Right's going to freak out. They're going to fucking talk about this on every conservative channel out there and survive that. And then our wacky left people, they're going to fucking push it like crazy. I mean, probably. They're probably in a meeting. And they're probably like... Somebody needs a raise, bro. Raise the dude up. Whoever come up with that cover right here. Again, they're probably in a meeting and they're like, man, listen. Wow, they're letting people out of Guantanamo Bay or whatever is happening on the other side of this. Viewership's been tanking. Nobody's watching our shows anymore. Like, we'll get the book of guaranteed ways to get more viewership. Oh, page four, Satanic stuff. Oh, yeah. Let's bring that up again. That'll totally work. There's a couple things to this conversation. For the statistics, since 2000, actually, after 2020, the viewership has dropped in half. Wow. And... Yeah, so they're starving for that. They want to do everything they can to pull all the levers to get attention. I found the performer, Kim Petra, it's her take on it, if you guys want to hear it. She said, I think a lot of people, honestly, have kind of labeled what I stand for and what Sam stands for as religiously not cool. And I personally grew up wondering about religion and wanting to be a part of it, but slowly realizing it didn't want me to be a part of it. So it's a take on not being able to choose religion and not being able to live the way that people might want you to live. Because as a trans person, I'm already not kind of wanted in religion. So we were doing a take on that. Oh, God. It was kind of an help-keeper. They're going way deeper than they actually are. Yeah, wait. Like, it meant something. Yeah, yeah. It's not that they mean shit. It stands for... No, it doesn't. You just want people to look at you. You want attention. Like, we get great controversy. It's media. Yeah, yeah. Another version of Clinton. I love it when they come out with their deep takes. I know. There's like these real deep takes. I mean, both too are guilty of it. Like, the right has like this crowd. I mean, that's how I saw it on like conservative type pages or I pop it around. It's like, this is what's happening. They're conditioning us for all these things. Do you know that there was a strider... Trying to get views, man. You know, there was a scare in the 80s for satanic groups were... I don't remember what they called it. There was an actual term for it, but it became like... Like Helter-Skelter. No, no, no. It was actually the psychological phenomenon that spread like wildfire. Yeah. Everybody all of a sudden became afraid... Well, there was that in daycares too. Yes. They had this like, yeah, this crazy... Crazy mad hysteria that like... Didn't that just happen? It was like one or two daycares that like apparently had like a cult practicing... It wasn't true though. Yeah. It wasn't true. And the little kids were saying stuff like, yeah, the teacher I think sometime, the parents like, what? Yeah, like how did that even start? Some psychological phenomenon. Yeah. Well, we had that, you know, over here and not far from us is where the teacher was using the Nyquil and all the kids. Remember that? What? Yeah, that just came out like two years ago. Really? Yeah. In fact, we were... When we moved... That took too much time. No, I'm serious. Look it up, Andrew. Look up, I think Morgan Hill actually, where I'm at, because we were looking for schools and then we were talking to my brother-in-law and he's like, don't you dare go to that school. That's the Nyquil school. Yes. That's where the teacher was at that was using the Nyquil and all the kids. Wow. Did you pull it? Did you find it, Andrew? I mean, I'm finding it in all kinds of places. It's like a common practice. Hey, listen. As a parent of a toddler, I'm gonna tell you right now, it's wrong. But I understand. But I kind of understand a little bit, you know what I mean? It's so bad. This teacher's just like, I had enough. All right, kids, time for some fruity drink. I do the rest of the day off. Dude, my two-year-old, bro, toddlers are great, you know? Let me tell you why they're great. They will get pissed off for anything and everything. And there's no way to... Like, what's going on? Like, I'll turn a light on and he'll freak out because he had to turn it on. So I'll turn it off and then he has to go turn it back on. It's like, this is all day. All day long. Stuff like this. If I cut his food, he gets pissed off. I have to put the food together so he can cut it. Yeah. Literally, I've done that. Stuck it together. Here, you cut it, you know? Listen to my banana story. Yeah, dude. Oh, man. So, Nike will help some of that calm down? Have you given him any of the Creatures of Habit oatmeal yet? Have you tried that with him? He likes it. Yeah, Max likes it, too. He does like it. I like it because, you know what's weird? Oatmeal can sometimes bother my digestion. Really? Sometimes. But that one doesn't. I can do two packets and it won't bother my gut. Yeah, I mean, that has to do with the plant protein, right? No, I think it's... Because regular oatmeal doesn't have any protein. I think it has to do... I'm just comparing it to regular, not just other... It's got digestive enzymes in it and probiotics. I think that's why. Yeah, because I eat it. No gut problems whatsoever. If I eat regular oatmeal, I could do one packet. If I do more than one packet, I get like bloated and start to feel kind of off or whatever. Yeah. But not with that one. I don't want to spill the beans too early, but I know he's got something. I think it... I know this quarter. I thought it was real soon here, a new flavor coming out. So, it should be... Did you have an influence over it? I think this is the one... I think he had one before the one that I... Listen, Justin, let's guess. What flavor would it have? Yeah, what would it have? Adam was like some cotton candy. Yes. Sounds like that bubblegum. Yeah. It's a stripper flavor. Wow. What? I'm just being like, you know... Stripper flavor. You guys are ridiculous. Vanilla bubblegum. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Vanilla... I know it does, bro. You have the palette over here. Hey, did you see McGregor coming back? He's fighting again. I heard. He got... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's fighting Chandler. What's his name? Michael Chandler? What's the... Maybe Andrew... Is it Michael Chandler? Yeah, I forget. Michael Chandler. How is it? Yeah. Yeah. He's coming back. Did you also see at the end of the month? He's huge right now. Yeah, he is. He's like been on... I mean, because he broke, literally broke his leg. And so, it's like, you know, the therapy of that, I think he's been on some... He looks like some sauce to help accelerate. You know what's so funny is that, you know, there's this misconception around, I think, steroids sometimes, especially in the fight game. Like, people just assume that, like, it's this massive advantage. And don't get me wrong, there's some advantages to using anabolic in a lot of ways. But when a guy just puts on 20, 30 pounds, and he's been an athlete in a sport forever, like, it doesn't always play out the way you think it's going to play out. He's also in a different weight class. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, we've seen that. If you're fighting in a bigger... Like, fighting is completely different, too. Like, in terms of that because, like, you know, like, you have to account for all that movement and the speed and the agility and all that gets affected. You take a guy who's naturally 200 pounds and you have... And he fights and he trains. And you have another guy who trains and fights, who has to take anabolic to weight 200 pounds. The natural guy's got the advantage. He's been living in that body for a long time. That's his body. The other guy's got to force his... Now, size makes a difference when you're fighting guys who are smaller. So, yeah, now he's going to have an advantage over a guy who's 150 pounds. But UFC's got weight classes. You see Jake Paul, too? His fight? Oh, with Tommy Fury. Is that who? The real... That's the first professional boxer. He's actually... Like, a boxer, current right now, good boxer, professional boxer. That's his weight class, too. Is he tired or is he still... No, Tommy Fury is a current boxer right now. Yeah, he's not as good as his brother, but he's still a good boxer. And so, this is, like, the first... Like, everybody's been... And, I mean, first of all, I think you get the credit Jake Paul no matter what. I mean, he was a nobody fighter just five years ago and the fact that he's beating anybody. Like, I don't think I would go beat those MMA guys in boxing just because... No, he created a whole new genre, for sure. Yeah, so he... But this is where, like, everybody is... I think he's... It's going to be interesting because from what happens from this, win or lose. Like, imagine, like, you got to think that there's a big majority. Okay, there's going to be a split, right, of people that are really paying attention to Jake Paul. You have, like, super fans of him that are, like, that love him. Then you have probably, I would say, half of the people that are just wanting to see him get his ass kicked or see him actually lose. And because he keeps winning, he keeps sucking these people back in. I mean, I'm guilty of this. I've ordered a couple of the fights because I'm just curious to watch. One of these guys is going to whoop his ass. He keeps winning. And you slowly start to like him. Yeah, you're right. So you... What happens? Okay, how does this play out for this new genre of fighting? Like, when these fighters... And they finally pick a fight where they got to fight somebody who's really good at boxing. What happens when he gets his ass kicked? Is it over? Is his career completely done? I think he still has another chance if he loses once. Why? Who do you... Like, now are you still interested to see him fight anymore? Good Jake Paul. Yeah, if you're... Yeah, if you're hate following him, probably not. I mean, I don't... Okay, so I wouldn't classify me as either of those categories. Like, I'm kind of in the middle. Like, I'm not... I'm definitely... I'm always curious and interested in people that have... that build, you know, large businesses or get large amounts of fame, especially in today's world. So I'm curious about him. I'm interested to see somebody potentially beat him or him fight that, but I'm not like... And I think that I would lose interest after that. If he goes and he fights... It depends how he loses. If he just looks, it's embarrassed and maybe... But if he fights and then he loses because he's already won a few and if he does this great comeback story... But he hasn't won a few against real boxers. Right. And if his first fight against a real boxer, which by the way, Tommy Fury is a good boxer, he's not a great boxer. Yeah. So if he loses to just a good boxer... It depends how he loses, I think. Really? Yeah, like if he loses and it looks like embarrassing, like he just gets schooled. But if he does okay, he does pretty good and then he loses, he might have an opportunity to try and fight other people and come back and maybe get accolades just for trying. You know what I mean? Like if he does okay, it's like the Rocky story. He goes back to Rocky. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. Do you think after this fight that if he wins and it's in pretty dominant fashion that he then steps into the actual boxing league? Oh, yeah. I mean, if he wins... If he wins, this extends his money-making career as a boxer for sure. Right, like he'd go for a title or at least work his way in that. I mean, he sets the table for himself for the next three to five fights of making good money because if you go... I mean, he comes in his first attempt at a professional fighter and he wins. I mean, that's definitely setting the table for him. I mean, the whole reason why they are agreeing to fight him is because he brings money. Yeah, of course. He brings fans and money. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this will be Tommy Fury's biggest purse, I think. I'm sure it will be. What is this... This is like so proves that you can be a great athlete, which is important, but what's more important is how... How you market yourself. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Especially for fighting. But it's for all sports. If you're that athlete that people want to watch for whatever reason, you're going to get paid more than somebody's better than you. You know? Yeah, unless you take it to the extreme like a TO or something like that where it's like you're in a team dynamic. I think sports are like... You're right. You can take different sports and like... Which is a little different. My point is that if you're... It's all about your brand and your personality and you're like really like this person. Everybody wants to watch, but you're not a good team player. It doesn't work in like a football setting or like a basketball setting. You can go too far. Nobody wants to give you the ball, you know, at that point. Yeah, no, you're right. That's a good point. Individual sports, it plays in your favor a lot. There's a guy in... Kudos to Netflix for doing this. They do such a good job of this. I remember when I brought up a couple years ago when they did the F1 Racing TV series or like that. All of a sudden, I became interested in F1 Racing. Never carried to watch it before. Yeah, it was a great series. You know that they've done another one with tennis and maybe Andrew can look up the name of it, but it's really cool. I believe it was the Australia Open that they did like this whole series. And the way they did the series is each episode kind of like the F1, where they followed like a competitor. And so they, for a guy like me who doesn't watch any tennis whatsoever, they build a little bit of a storyline from each one of these professional athletes that are in the open and you get a glimpse of their character and then you get to watch their match. Now, all of a sudden, I'm curious. Yeah. And now I, like, guaranteed if I'm playing two channels and one of those guys is playing, I'll want to watch because it's so great. That's cool, Andrew. Break points. Yes, that's it. And there's a guy, I don't know his name, and I didn't know who he was before, but he's like this, you know, breaking the rackets and talking shit. He's like super animated, does crazy shots. I didn't even know about this player. Do you know who was really good at tennis? Do you guys know that? That we know? Yeah, that you guys know. A friend of ours? Doug. Doug. Is he really? Yeah. He looks like he might play tennis. Table tennis? Real tennis. He played it for a while. I'm good at table tennis. Really? Yeah, I don't know how he competed or whatever, but... I've never seen a racket around him. Yeah, I mean, he gets when he comes back. I took lessons as a kid. How did you find that out? When were you guys talking about tennis? I don't know. I didn't see that coming up in conversation with you guys. We have a different relationship. Very different. Your guys' relationship is very physical. I mean, I... No, really, when did you even bring up tennis with him? I used to train him. So I knew all about his past workouts and exercise. So he used to run. He liked to run for a while. He played tennis for a while. That's interesting because he's always said to... He always identifies as similar to you as far as being the non-ball sport guy. Yeah. So I've never heard him even mention tennis before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. Did he claim to be good? I mean, you know, Doug, he's super... This is cool talking about Doug when he's not here. I know, right? This would be great. Can't wait for him to hear this. Yeah. He's humble. He never... You guys know that. Doug's not the type to talk about how good he is at anything until you realize he's pretty damn good. But I would imagine he's pretty good. He's very conservative about everything and very humble. He doesn't say much about it. No, but I know he played for a while and Doug's a hella competitive, which again, he doesn't even say that he is, but he's extremely competitive. Oh, yeah. You see it. Very competitive. So I'm sure he was pretty damn good. But I remember he used to go play. When I used to train him, that was part of his workouts. Did it take when you were training him, back in the days, or do you recall this, the time it took? You know, when you meet a client, some clients, it takes you a while to really crack them open and get to know them and where you bond. It's like, was he like that? Or was it instant, like you guys bonded right away? Do you remember? Right away. Oh, right away. Yeah. He likes to be sold. So he's perfect for me. That's why he's perfect for me. Well, no, no. Because I was ready to sell him some shit. I was selling everything. Well, Doug, you guys know Doug's stuff. You guys know what I mean. He likes it when somebody really explains something to him and they're passionate about it. And then if he tries it and it works, then he's sold. Totally. So he was like on board. I mean, isn't that a proven thing about all salespeople? Yeah. Haven't they done? You like to be sold, yeah. They do, right? In fact, if I want to buy something and I go buy it from the salesperson, the salesperson isn't doing a great job, I almost want to be like, you know what, I'm not buying this because you suck. Even though I want to buy it, you don't get this. I'm out of here. I've told people that. Yeah, I've told people that they didn't do it. If you would have done a good job on me, you would have got me to buy it. I didn't even want that. But I am that person who if you... I don't know if we were on air when we were talking about the day when the kid came to my door. I was so surprised he had door-to-door sales. Like that was so wild. Was he good? He was. I mean, what was more impressive to me than like his presentation was just, I mean, I can't remember the last time I'd seen anybody. I thought door-to-door, I was dead. I didn't think... I can't remember the last time someone knocked on my door. You know how good you have to be when it comes to door-to-door sales? Yeah. You know what I was impressed with? Like nobody wants to talk to you. He was a young kid and you could tell. And I had that look on my face too. We're in the middle of dinner. Like I barely even opened the door all the way and I'm looking down. I'm kind of like head cocked to the side like, what do you want, dude? You know? And like, so I know I was not giving him like good energy, right? And I didn't say anything. I just let him do his thing and he kind of fumbled his words a little bit. But what I was impressed with and why a lot of... But he did it. Yeah, but he did it. I just saw, man, you know, like I know this is like, I mean, what's the turn down rate in door-to-door? It's got to be like... Nobody answers the door. First of all, everybody has ring cameras and shit. Yeah, 90% goes on right away. Bro, I... I mean, 1 in 100 you might get like that. So my cousin used to sell... Yeah. In the 90s, he used to sell vacuum cleaners, door-to-door. Like rainbow? No. It was Luxa Lite. Luxa, I don't remember the name. You know, that's one of... I have such a vivid memory of a door-to-door sales guy selling rainbow vacuums to my mom for some reason because he came in and he dumped a fucking coffee can of like sugar like on the... Just to... Yeah. Bro, that's exactly what it is. My cousins say like people open the door and he'll just dump through. Yeah, just throw it... Just dump through in the car. Like what, don't worry about it. You know? Or let me see your vacuum. They'll clean it. We'll be like, now look at all the stuff it missed and then he cleans it with theirs. Like, wow. That was like a thousand-door vacuum back then. Yeah. Yeah, dude, if somebody... If I open the door and someone just threw dirt just on my floor right away, like you're going to clean it and maybe I'm going to... Does that company still... Look up rainbow vacuums and tell me if it's still a big brand. That was a big door-to-door sales brand back in the... And it had... Rainbow doesn't mean the same thing anymore these days. Yeah. It was a... Our vacuum... You had a water... You had like the water filter system where it like created a whirlwind or whatever like that and cleaned it up. You guys got closed? Oh, yeah. Did you guys see the paper plaid? Dude, listen. Hey, we had a horse and we had a rainbow vacuum. No business, bro. No business. A thousand-dollar vacuum. No business. That was like 20% of... or 30% of my parents' income. Is that it? Yeah. Wow. That's a new one. Hey, hey, we could go out there and put your last name. He's still a little buddy on the vacuum. How long have they been in company? In business. In business. Yeah. There was Kirby, Luxulite, I think he's the other one. Rainbows have been on. You ever heard rainbow vacuums? No. It looked nothing like this. Ours was brown and it did have that water at the bottom like that, that spotter. Since 1936. Damn. 1936. We had some crappy one and a dust buster. I remember just dust busting everything. Yeah. What are those things right or go for price-wise? They're expensive, dude. What? They were expensive back in the 80s. A thousand dollars for a vacuum in the 80s? Think about what that would be today. It's like with inflation and then it's got to be like $10,000, no? I mean, $10,000. Stop. Why would you take a $10,000 vacuum? Dude, I always thought- Wait. In 1980s, $1,000 would not be close to what $10,000 is today? I don't think that much. Sure, it would be. $10,000? 1980. Go 1980 to 2023. Use a lot. Do the standard two to four percent of inflation and go, yes. How much is a thousand like $2,000? How much is a thousand dollars in 1980 worth today? I think that's what you were talking about. Yeah, there you go. I mean, the site is sending me to a distributor, but when I'm looking in the range is $800 to $3,000 range. Oh, yeah. But give me what Sal just said. How much was a thousand dollars in 1980? How much is that worth today? I'm going to be close. I'm going to be close. You think it would be $10,000? Yeah. So people were spending $10,000 on vacuum- My family was. Oh, my God, dude. My family was, dude. We were probably making payments for like nine years already. Vacuum's been broken for like five years. I mean, was it at least legit? Yeah. Yeah. Because the Dyson kind of came in. And I was like, this is like the most over-engineered vacuum of every second. What's it say? So $1,000 in 1980 is equivalence in purchasing power to $3,600. Oh, okay. $10,000. See, I said $2,000. I was way off. I was way off. Because I can't imagine spending it. It was believable, though. I mean, bro, my parents were spending $3,000. A $10,000 vacuum would have to literally suck like that. You know what I mean? It would have to be like... Well, I think the selling point was it was like a commercial you know, what are they called? Like a dry cleaning type of deal. Because it had the water and everything, right? Yeah. I mean, it sucked up the coffee grains and the sugar. I think it even spilled like Kool-Aid or something on there, too. Oh, my God. Got my family. And you're hella mad as a kid. Give me that Kool-Aid. What the hell? Yeah, that's crazy. Mind you, what the fuck? We got a $1,000 vacuum, though. We got a new chore. Some bullshit. Hey, kids, look, we all decided to get you all one gift together. Vacuum cleaner. Now you guys can clean the house. Yeah. Speaking of Kool-Aid and stuff that makes you fat, did you guys know that sleeping in cool temperatures may actually help accelerate fat loss? I actually found some studies that when people sleep in a cool room, it sets the stage for better fat loss. Now, is that because you get better sleep, therefore, your metabolism, hormone profile, i.e., all that stuff? Better sleep, melatonin production, better serotonin production, less cravings. So they find in some of these studies that when people cool down their room or their bed, that they start to lose weight. They burn body fat. So I know you're bringing that up because we have a sleep-me commercial today, but I hate stuff like that. Why? Because it's like leap to leap to leap to prove a point. Right? Well, we at least know this. You'll get better sleep. Science is guilty of this, though. Like, crazy. Like, it's like you can, because you can connect it. I know sleep-me's like, wait, nice fucking commercial for me, guy. Wait, we're on a roll. I've already said the shit's bomb, right? The thing is, like, it's one of my favorite things that we have invested in. And I think not a single night goes by that I don't use our... I'm like, these are like logic threads I would use to sell my wife on keeping it super freezing in, in, you know, the room. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, babe, it's fat loss. Like, babe, are you interested in having a good marriage for the rest of our lives? That's right. Well, don't you think good sleep will contribute to that? Well, did you know? The study show, boom. Well, where it's been able to save me is that it allows her to keep the room warmer than I like because I can keep my sheets like ice cold. Yeah. Which that has been life-saving because that's, we are completely opposite when it comes to that. She would be totally okay with keeping our house between 75 and 80 degrees. Wow, that hot? And then having sheets Holy crap. on us and like a comforter on... 75 to 80? Yeah, she would be totally comfortable with that. When it's like, she was complaining last night. She's like, I cracked the window right before we were getting, going to bed. And she's like, did you just open the window? I'm like, yeah, it's hot. She's like, it's cold in here. I walk over to thermostat. It's 71 in the house. It's 71. How is that? That was so bad. I keep it like 60. Like the kids have like, they wear jackets. Dude, they're like a jacket. He had five blankets on top of them. I'm like, oh man, like I felt a little guilty. That was my favorite place. Justin's in his underwear. Yeah. It's like, you know, I'm like totally like... That was my favorite thing about owning a town home. When I was in a town home, that was the small square footage. Man, those things, Oh yeah. And they're in your box thing because you have people on the side. So the installation's good. Like, man, I could, that place could be super hot. I could freeze it out within like minutes. It reminds me, I had a funny conversation with Ethan last night because he was going to bed. I was saying good night and all this. And he asked me something. I forget what he asked me, but it was like one of those things where I just immediately kind of went into dad mode of having to be like, okay, this is a lesson. I have to teach him a lesson, you know, and all this instead of him. It was about a joke and like saying an inappropriate joke. I'm like, hope you don't say this around, you know, your teachers and like your other friends and just be careful. And then I just stopped. I'm like, dude, I'm so lame. Like I can't, like I can't be like your friend and be like, oh, it's hilarious joke. High five. You know, like, I'm like, I literally as a dad turned into like a Saturday morning cartoon with a PSA at the end. Always. Every time. Every time. Like, you know, like, help lead this old lady across the street. You know, so just realize that. I'm like, dude, so corny. Oh, you have a girlfriend. That's great. You guys like great. That's awesome. Also here, let me send you some protect yourself. Yeah. Exactly. Look at all the words. Yeah, terrible. Anyway, oh, so we got a shout out. That's right. We got to give a shout out on Twitter. Kevin and bass. He's a researcher, medical student researcher. He just wrote an article for Newsweek and it is going viral and I appreciate him because he's objective and I'm going to read to you the title of this article. We don't have to get into it because it'll be another hour here, but I'm going to tell you the title of the article. The title of this article on Newsweek is it's time for the scientific community to admit we were wrong about COVID and he goes down the whole list of all the stuff that they did and the damage that it caused, the unintended consequences and how they made people feel who questioned or thought, maybe I don't want to go with that policy or whatever. And he said in this article and in some interviews that the medical community's reputation has been damaged severely because of how things were handled and he says in order to move forward we need to admit that we were wrong about a lot of things. So anyway, really good, very objective guy, great follow on Twitter. What's his name again? Kevin Bass. Kevin Bass. All one word. Yeah, well the handle is Kevin and then another N. So Kevin and Bass. Okay. Hey, what's up everybody? Look, multivitamins can help fill in nutrient gaps. Here's the problem. Multivitamins for kids, it's basically candy. You're talking about a lot of sugar. They're like gummy candies and they don't provide great nutrients. Well, we are working with a company called Haya Health that makes children's multivitamins with no sugar and none of that gummy junk in there. It's non-GMO. It's vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free. Everything else you can imagine. It's a great product and it's designed for kids of all ages. So if you're interested, go to HayaHealth.com. That's H-I-Y-A-Health.com forward slash mind pump and get 50% off your first order. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. First caller is Pradeep from San Francisco. What's up Pradeep? How can we help you? I've been listening to all three of you over the last three to four months and you know, every day it's like eye opening. Whenever I hear the questions, hey, I'm going to do that question. I'm going to do that. So it's really a lot when I hear the comments, the questions and how you answer them. So thank you for all that you do. Oh, great. Yeah. So the question, I sent one question on the email to you guys and then very recently I had a follow-up question but I started my original question. So I'm a 13-year-old. I am 225 pounds and I have a very high body fat of 33%. And I never did weights in my life or strength training until eight months back. And actually one year back I was 240 pounds and I did three months of cardio, got to 225 and somewhere I don't know if I stumbled upon to you guys who said that, you know, focus on strength training. So I went into strength training. So what happened is that in the last eight months, I haven't lost a single pound of weight. I'm still at 225. Having said that, I have lost around three inches around the waist. So I feel really good about that. And eight months is a long time not to see any movement on the scale. But at the same time, since I'm seeing movement around the waist and my body fat is coming down, I feel pretty good about it. But my concern is that I will end up being a 225 pound strong person if I continue on this path instead of being a 180 pound or 185 pound strong person with 15% body fat. So that's my goal. That's what I want to achieve in the course of next 18 months. So I'll be turning 14 like 18 months. So I want to give the best version of myself to myself at 40. So I wanted to be at 185 pounds, 15% body fat if that's possible in 18 months time frame from where I am right now. So the question I want to ask you is like, should I bring back cardio a lot? Because I used to do cardio. I have seen improvements there, but I stopped doing cardio and just focused on strength training. So I wanted to know if... I'm confused about this whole cardio thing. Should someone like an obese guy like me should focus on cardio and not just strength training? So if you guys can do some clarity around that, that would be helpful. Not yet. You're actually... A couple of things. One, you're actually doing pretty damn good. So I want to start by saying that the fact that you're dropping inches on your waist and three inches on your waist is significant. So you're actually doing really good. What I am reading that you didn't say yet is your maintenance calories around 2,000 calories. Yeah, it's 2,300. So if we were to continue down the path of just restricting calories and or potentially adding cardio, eventually you're going to get to a place where you're eating pretty low calorie in order for you to get to that 185 range that you want to. And it's probably not sustainable. So where I would take you right now is actually into kind of a mini bulk where we're trying to increase your calories. Because part of why you feel like you're stalled out a little bit is for your size, 2,000 calories is pretty low. Like I'd like to see you get up to a place where we're north of 3,000 calories for the amount of size that you have on you. And that would make the cut a lot easier. Even though that's going to delay the weight loss momentarily in the long run, it's going to speed up your results. And then also when you get to your 185 range, it'll be more maintainable than if we just continue down the path of cutting. Pradeep, before I answer the question about cardio and all that. And what Adam said is obviously on point. But I think it's important to understand what's happening with your body. So I'm going to use an analogy that might help you understand. So let's say you're at a job and you make $50 an hour. And you need to make more money. So you decide I'm going to just work more hours. Or you could take some money aside and invest it in accounts that give you a return of, let's say, 10% year over year. Working more hours will get you more money right now. Faster. But the investment will get you more money easier in the long run. So what you're doing right now is you're setting yourself up for better, more sustainable results in the long run. So will you lose weight on the scale faster if you just did a bunch of cardio right now? You would. But would you be setting yourself up for a potential failure? Definitely. So there's nothing wrong with doing cardio. In fact, what I would recommend you do right now is just try to walk a few times a day, probably after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Just do that for now. Stay on track. And what you're doing right now is you're building muscle. Because if you lose three inches, that's a lot. Three inches around the waist is a lot. If you lost three inches around your waist and your weight stayed the same, you lost a substantial amount of body fat and gained a substantial amount of muscle. And that muscle is very active. It's going to burn more calories for you. It's going to be a faster metabolism. And if you do this, if you continue on the right path, eventually you're going to end up in a position where it's much more maintainable. It's much more sustainable than what you might have done before. So you've got to really look at this and say, okay, I'm in this for the long run. I want to do this in a way to where I don't find myself bouncing back and forth like everybody does. Like if you look at the statistics on weight loss, it's like 90% fail rate, right? We don't want to do the 90% fail rate. Like it's great if you lose 30 pounds now, but who cares if you gain it back and then some later on, right? So we want to do this the right way. I lost weight before and I gained it all back. That's why I'm really happy I got into strength training. Yeah. So you're doing the right, you're going the right direction right now. It's just you got to stay the course and allow the metabolism to build, allow the muscle to build. But the fact that you lost inches and your weight stayed the same is actually if I was your trainer, I'd be very ecstatic about that. There's another part to this. I'm looking at your question. You didn't say this yet, but you said your calories around 2300. Your protein is about 120 grams. I would say keep your, even if you kept your calories the same, but just increase your protein and maybe drop your carbs a little bit. I bet you'll see even better results. I'd like to see you aim for 180 grams of protein a day. Well, in a perfect world, this is actually, okay, a perfect world right now because you take the advice on walking, you know, say a total of a half hour to 45 minutes a day, like post-workout, like Sal was saying, breaking it up in 10 minute, 20 minute walks or whatever, or in one shot, doesn't matter. Add that. Increase your protein. I actually wouldn't reduce carbs. I'd actually use that as his bump. It would only be another 50, 60 grams. Yeah, you're not talking about, so literally just bump the protein up. The additional movement from the walking is going to negate any fat gain, I think, from the additional calories and those additional grams of protein will support the weight training you're doing and hopefully speed your metabolism up. But you said 18 months, right? That's kind of the goal. And I'm going to say some hypothetical numbers but to give you an idea of how good you are right now, you could focus on reverse dieting, meaning increasing calories, building strength, not really losing weight on the scale for, let's say, the next three months and you're going to put yourself in a really good place calorie maintenance wise and then start cutting from there and you'll hit your goal before the 15 months is up after that. So you're in a good place right now but the focus should be on building muscle and getting your calorie intake up without adding a bunch of weight on the scale. If you and I at the end of 30 days looked at each other and you're like, Adam, my waist hasn't changed, but I am eating 2300 calories every single day. I would tell you that's a huge win. And if we can do that next month and do another 300 calories and then another month and do another 300, now we're up to 2900 calories a day and you're not moving on the scale. Then I could go, all right, bro, let's drop you down to 2300 and watch the weight just come off. So that's kind of what it would look like. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it makes complete sense to me. Actually, I'm glad I called because I was actually in my mind thinking of going for a cut, but the advice you guys telling me is to go for a mini bulk. Yes, I like that. Are you following any of our programs right now? Not yet. I'm actually following this five by five routine from one app called Stronglyps, which I'm using, but I haven't still plateaued yet. So I was thinking of changing programs once my progressive overload hits a plateau right now. I started with an empty bar eight months back and then right now I'm at 200 pounds of as far as squat and I'm pretty sure I'm going to max out soon. So at that time I want to move to something. But during this process, one question I have for you guys when I just said the follow-up question is that as I increase my weights, I am noticing that my right is working more. I'm a right-handed guy. So my right is working more than my left. I'm not increasing the loads and get more balance. Yeah, balance on both sides. So that's something I am... Let us give you a program because we have a perfect program for what you're experiencing right now. So let us give you a program. I would love to see you do map symmetry right now because it's specifically designed to balance out the left and right. And if you already are noticing that, you notice it well enough that would serve you more to get into that right now as soon as you can. And it would be good because we're going to go on a little bit of a bulk so it'll be a new routine. So sending a new signal to the body, a different training method with the calorie increase would only benefit you. So let us send that over to you. I appreciate that. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Thank you again. Love all that you do and more power to you guys. No problem, man. Thank you. I like using that analogy because I think that's the main reason why people fail is they go for the quick result. And yeah, the scale will move fast if you just stop eating and do a lot of movement but it's again, the data is clear, it's a 90% fail rate with that approach. I would say closer to 100% if you stretch it out long enough. So it's like, do you want to do this in a way to where you can keep it or do you want to play this game to go up and down your whole life? That's why it's always been hard to talk somebody out of that because it does produce a more rapid result but it's not a sustainable approach and to think of it more of an investment and really kind of like diligently drawing that out is something that is a hard thing to sell as a coach but it's the right thing. Well, it's a brilliant analogy too because you do see those results in the short term but how many people are working the extra, let's say four or five hours a day? You're already working an eight to ten hour day but you now know, oh if I work four or five more hours you will get more money but ask yourself how long would you continually work 12 to 14 hour days every single day? And even if you could see yourself doing that How miserable are you going to feel? Exactly. You're not going to work now 20 hour days inevitably you're going to go back in and then the crash and that's exactly what happens with people with this is that they're in a place right now and this is a great question because this is a very common place right, take out his height his weight and all that stuff is irrelevant but somebody who is trying to cut, get stuck hits this plateau, seeing strength gains but not seeing it and they're already kind of low calorie and the thought is oh add cardio, reduce calories and you'll see this initial drop but then you have to ask yourself oh now I'm eating 1500 calories I'm a 200 pound man 1500 calories and I'm doing cardio 3-4 times a week like is that something I'm going to do for the rest of my life not realistically No, think long term and make it work forever that's the bottom line Next caller is Ryan from Nebraska What's up Ryan, how can we help you? Hey, how are you guys doing today? Good, good. Thanks for all the great content you guys put out I just discovered you guys in December yet I've listened to probably hundreds of your episodes and you're now the only podcast I listened to Thanks for that Dan, keep up the great work A huge compliment, thank you So a little background on me, I'm 40 years old I started my journey back in October of 2022 I weighed in at 305 pounds I was obviously not happy about that although I've been overweight my whole life I've never broken that 300 pound mark so I knew something had to change I started cutting out all the processed foods and fast foods started concentrating on high protein Whole Foods diet but I was kind of stuck in that beginner lots of cardio not a lot of strength training phase for a while there until I discovered mind bump and now I I do strength training do more compound movements the big five basically eliminated cardio cardio started tracking my calories and fast forward to today down to 260 pounds I just finished three phase of NAPS anabolic I actually start phase one today so that leads me to my question here I'm trying to really dial in on my macros but I'm kind of confused on how fat intake should be and how my fat intake will affect my fat loss for somebody who's trying to lose a significant amount of fat like I am that's a good question so you're hitting your protein which is important a certain amount of fat is essential in your diet meaning you have to eat a certain amount of fat because your body can't produce essential fatty acids carbohydrates are not essential meaning you can never eat a single carb again now that doesn't mean it's optimal most people do best with some carbohydrates in their diet as well so basically what I'm trying to say is there's a lot of flexibility here with your carbs and fats so if you look at your total calories it says up here, I'm reading your question that you're aiming for about 2500 calories a day about 220 grams of protein that means the rest of the calories now can get partitioned to fat and carbs what I would do is as long as you hate your essential fat which probably for someone your size you're looking at about 70 grams the rest can be carbs or you can have no carbs and the rest be fat or really it's real flexible and you've got to kind of feel it out and see what works best for you some people do really well with more carbohydrates other people do really well with lower carbohydrates but what's going to make you gain or lose body fat are the calories so aside from the essential amount of fat that you need the rest of it's pretty flexible so if I had two different clients both eating 2500 calories I could have one that eats more carbs and one that eats more fats and it's all based off of feel that's how I would determine whether or not they ate more fat or more carbs I see, okay so it would be safe to maybe have a little higher fat days on my low carb days as long as your calories are the same it really doesn't matter you're playing with different ways on how you intake your carbohydrates so try one day having most of your carbs earlier in the day like before your workout and see how your workout feels and then maybe on another day go really low carbohydrate in the morning and then load your carbs after a workout and see how you feel and then do another time where you split them in between and you really start to hone in on how your body likes the difference in your workout and some people it's a major difference some people can tell a little bit I know that I have there's a certain amount of grams of carbs I have to have before a workout or I just have a really weak ass workout and that affects your results if you go into workouts and you're having phenomenal workouts every time because you're well fed it's going to promote more muscle growth you're going to have better results if you're kind of dragging ass all the time and then go play with that and see how you feel Sal on the other hand is somebody who does much better on like a higher fat lower carbohydrate so I think there's a good time that you're tracking to kind of play with that and I think you're in a pretty good place too calorie wise I think that if 2500 is a cut for you and you're actually leaning out that place and you're hitting your protein intake which is most important and as long as you don't go under that say 75 to 90 grams of fat every day you're in a good place Ryan why don't you do 200 grams of carbs and about 90 grams of fat start with your 220 grams of protein that'll put you at about 2500 calories start there see how you feel and if you want to lower fat raise carbs or vice versa go ahead and play with that and just see how you feel energy wise sleep wise you know for me if I eat too many carbs I'll feel lethargic but if I eat too low a carbs then my workouts tend to suck so you know so I'm not going to find that what works for you but the numbers I gave you is kind of a decent starting point it's almost the one to one carb to protein so 220 grams of protein 200 grams of carbs about 90 grams of fat that'll keep you at about 2500 calories so you can start there another thing I want to add that you start to pick up on that you're tracking and you're doing this is that's really cool not only is playing with carbohydrates to see how your workouts feel I think a good strategy is that you don't work out in how satiety so for example I was telling you how I like high carbohydrates around my workouts on workout days on an off day I like the reverse because if I go high fat low carbohydrate it doesn't stimulate my appetite as much so it's easier for me to stay disciplined and not over consume where if I eat a lot of carbohydrates and I don't go expend it in the gym I tend to want to eat more and overeat so also pay attention to that as you manipulate your fats and carbs pay attention to how it stimulates your appetite and what you might find is on workout days you eat a certain way on non-workout days you eat another way and so that allows a lot of flexibility yeah and that's kind of what I do now typically on my foundational days I'll eat more carbs typically before and after the workout than I do on the non-foundational days I try to stick to a fairly low carb diet just as a I guess how they sit with me to an extent but some carbs feel a lot heavier than others you know yeah the fat doesn't make you gain fat carbs don't make you gain fat neither do proteins it's the excess calories that will make you gain body fat so think of it that way right so sometimes people you know they think oh if I eat more fat and less carbs because it's fat it's going to turn into fat easier or something like that that's not how it works now what you might want to pay attention to what kinds of fats you get because of your blood lipid levels and how you feel some people do better with you know less saturated fats than other people do other people are totally fine with that I eat a ton of saturated fats and my lipids always look good so you know that's those are other things to consider but if you're in a cut you'll get away with a lot so I wouldn't worry too much about that if it's whole foods I would say just focus on kind of those macro targets I gave you do that for a little while and then kind of play with it Ryan have you had have you had blood work done at all anytime recent I did last year for a little bit I went to a testosterone clinic okay and I was getting some testosterone but my I mean kind of an excuse I guess but my my schedule was pretty hectic so I wasn't really getting in workouts like I was hoping to so I eventually I stopped doing the testosterone because I wasn't really seeing any results but that's mostly because I wasn't changing my lifestyle to to compliment the increase in testosterone so I would like to start going back to that soon now that I have you know got these habits down and and you know I work out regularly and and all that stuff so yeah get into our free form mp hormones get in there and I mean it's it's totally free for you to access on Facebook and yeah we've got that we've got the team on there that will be answering questions and so when when the time comes you're ready to do that you can go through them get their blood work I definitely at your age where you're at right now we're playing manipulating calories it'd be interesting just to see your home hormone profile see where you're at right now just as a good benchmark and a place that we can check up on every I don't know say six months to a year to see see all your your blood markers gotcha yeah we'll do alright man thanks for calling in yep thank you you got it yeah the carbs and fats are pretty funny right it's like some it's it could be so individual again as long as you your essential fats then base it off of how you feel and it's so weird I've known people I've had clients where low fat high carb just makes them feel good and I've had clients where it's exact opposite so that's where there's a lot of flexibility the protein tends to be consistent that tends to be consistent yeah the only thing I do see sometimes is like an increase say like you're eating a lot of nuts or something that has a bit of a higher calorie amount you know due to the fat content that is unaccounted for which then kind of creeps in and the overall calorie amount but other than that like it has that effect where it satiate so it's like you know like it's higher calorie but also too it'll satiate you more which then you know promotes you to not have this like raging of an appetite eating I so I highly recommend people don't eat nuts without measuring it's one of the it's probably a sneaky one it's hella sneaky it's one of those ones that you can grab a handful go that's probably calories yeah and it's way more than you normally think and even though like nuts can be a great source of fat you don't need much to hit what you need from it and you easily can overeat it and so you know it's a hack for that is I would when my clients like I love them I used to tell them to buy them where they have to take the shell off because it would slow down the process because you get them de-shelled oh yeah you're just you know smashing them but if you have to like break the shell it slows it down you tend to eat less so I would make them get so like when they get like it doesn't matter what nuts cashews peanuts whatever right almonds whatever you know 20 ounce 30 ounce bag or whatever and then break it get those little mini oh yeah like little amount yeah and portion out one ounces so just as soon as you buy it by the way that's not that much it's not when you tease go go home and weigh it out and obviously depending on the size of the person one ounce to three ounces worth of stuff and then you just and you pack it out that way when you go to grab it you know you know it take you just a little bit time you get home from the grocery store it take you another you know five ten minutes to do that but then at least now you know what you're getting a hold of every time you grab that next caller is Brad Fisher from Ohio Brad what's happening how can we help you hey guys thank you for taking my question love the show so my question is around programming you guys really open my eyes to the importance of goal setting and building programs you know good programming accordingly clearly you know you've done that with the maps programs so I'm 58 years old and lifting for 25 years and my idea of programming was go to the gym lift heavy things for an hour and come home you know based on equipment availability was sort of how I would do things so pathetic so thank you for what you've taught me in the short period of time I've become aware of you so last year listening to Jill Rogan he had a doctor Peter Attia on his show and doctor Attia you know what he does is he focuses on applying science to longevity so you know what are the things from a fitness nutrition stress related things I should be thinking today to live a long and healthy life down the road so during that call he mentioned something about this notion of a centenarian olympics so for maybe the listeners who aren't familiar or haven't heard of this it's you set goals as if you're going to live to be 100 years old so at age 100 these are the things I want to be able to do so it could be something as simple as I want to get out of a chair unassisted to going upstairs without a railing it could be I want to be able to play golf or walk so what I've done is I've come up with my own goals I've got 14 of them and I'm sure I'm going to add to these but my question for you guys based on these 14 goals knowing that I'm getting close to 60 years old and I'm going to continue to add to them what is the programming I should be thinking about today look like what are the things I should be building around you know these goals you know that I'll be in 40 years from now doing you know and how does that look going forward so doing things today 5 years 10 years and is there any maps program adaptations out there that could accomplish or help me accomplish these goals I love this question let's hear the 14 goals yeah rapid fire alright so let's see I want to be able to get up off the floor under my own power I want to be able to walk up and down the stairs with a 10 pound bag of grocery in each hand be able to lift a 30 pound suitcase and put it in an overhead bin I continue I expect to be traveling at 100 get out of a pool without a ladder get into the pool without a ladder I'm assuming this will be a great grandchild but lifting a 30 pound child off the ground be able to stand up off the ground without using my hands I want to be able to ride my motorcycle let's see I want to be able to play golf how much is tying my shoes I want to be able to bend over at the way standing up and tie my shoes I want to be able to paddle board I love to paddle board I love to mountain bike this one I think you guys will like I want to be able to carry my beach chair in a cooler of beer in each hand and be able to walk to the beach and be able to get in and out of the chair without any assistance very specific I like these I love these so there's two things based on those goals two things that are going to help you number one is to build and maintain strength almost every single thing you said what would prevent you from doing every single one of those is a loss of strength so strength training is going to be the foundation the second thing there are some skills in there that you listed like paddle boarding for example the best thing you can do to keep those skills is to practice those skills on a regular basis so it's actually quite simple now where does the complexity come in well the complexity comes in because from now till 100 that's over 40 years things happen in life sometimes you get sick sometimes it's more stress less stress you work out more or less the idea is to be able to modify training in the moment to improve the quality of your life in the context of the current moment that means sometimes you're going to need more mobility work other times you're going to need less mobility work sometimes you're going to train heavier sometimes you're going to train lighter I would say form and technique should always be the focus but that's true no matter what form and technique are always going to be number one for anybody regardless of their goals number three and that's pretty much it so as you get closer to that age you're probably going to have to modify things here and there and place more focus on some stuff like oh my god I noticed that I'm strong but I'm getting tighter it's harder for me to bend over and tie my shoes well now we're going to incorporate more flexibility and mobility training or I have the strength to walk to the beach holding my beach chair and beer more stamina training so I can maintain my cardiovascular fitness but ultimately all the things you listed were strength and skill that's it I think too based off of just focusing on strength people can get into a point where they just think about your regular kind of compound lifts or just basically lifting inside the constraints of a gym in terms of like the machines but really you have to think and expand upon that strength in different directions to maintain I guess I hate to use the word functional strength but really it's about functional strength it's about expressing all the capabilities your joints have but doing it in a way where you maintain that kind of stability and control and if you can focus on just moving in different directions rotating and expressing that movement with strength it's going to carry through basically any pursuit so strength is at the root of it all and so we talk about mobility and we talk about having restrictions most of that restriction is just because of repetitive stress and like doing the same thing all the time so to be able to kind of weave in from doing this by loaded heavy strength training focus type of workouts but then also complimenting that with rotational movements and things that you can express in different directions I think is paramount I can be a little more specific I think things I heard in there I need the ability to be able to step up and stabilize I need to be able to get up off the ground like a Turkish get up I need to be able to lift a child up over my head potentially like a dead press or a circus press these are all movements that would be and then you need rotational strength for paddle boarding and something else you said that triggered rotational for me math performance is like literally has every aspect of that in it so if I were to build a routine the strength training routine that was going to benefit or carry over into all these pursuits it would look much like that now to Sao's point it would be modified through my life so in the perfect world it looks just like math performance in the state of high stress other shit going on maybe potential injury happened 20 years later of course I'm going to modify and change some of those things but the elements in that program like there's an endurance aspect to that for stamina building in there there's a rotational component in there I believe we have Turkish get ups in that program an explosive component which is something to even talking with somebody like a Joe DeFranco is something I didn't really consider for as you're aging but to be able to maintain the ability to move quickly will prevent a lot of potential injury down the road as well I don't know if you've heard me say this before on the podcast but I believe that to be the single program of all the programs that I would be okay with one of my clients doing forever it's such a good job of balancing mobility rotational unilateral I mean it really covers and it's phased out in four phases instead of three and you get even some stamina building in there for cardiovascular health it really encompasses in my opinion overall health and longevity better than any program we've ever written and so I would literally live in that and that doesn't mean you can't take exercises here and there and you can't change it with something else you like doing or you have more specific to a sport or something you're doing but really like the nuts and bolts of that program it really addresses all the things that you said really well I think do you have that program? I don't have an anabolic and I've got prime pro we'll send it to you we'll send that one over to you for sure so let me ask you something though with the explosive can you incorporate that without injuring yourself when you haven't really done a lot of that for years and years and years because I've tried certain things and invariably it seems like I create more problems than benefits you're just doing the wrong stuff and you're probably going too far so like an explosive movement could literally be you just jump in place don't even land you just jump up you know like that's one or it could be moving something a little faster so you have to scale it something that's appropriate so you might be looking at like athletes training and be like okay I'm going to jump up on a big box and jump down that might be too much right now so it's got to be appropriate and it could start real low but the point that Justin made with that is whatever skill you stop practicing you end up losing so if you stop practicing anything that involves any kind of explosiveness to it then you'll lose it completely well and two like think about any time you're in a predicament where you drop something or you know you have to move quickly out of the road or whatever it is you slip on something to be able to you know collect yourself rather quickly and be able to have that kind of control and strength to do that that's what I'm kind of talking about with being able to move quickly out of situations and recognize that have your body kind of respond appropriately. Think of it this way Brad when you do explosive training think that you're working out when you're doing it think you're practicing a movement so it should feel like oh I can do this it should not feel like oh my god I can barely do this because then you're asking for trouble. Well a lot of people we assume like I mean because a lot of plyometrics have a lot of jumping up and down left and right but there's other forms of explosive training that don't require up and down jumping or left to right jumping that's probably the most risky or dangerous for the average especially in an advanced stage blowing a knee out, a hip going, something like that because they do too much too fast but you can do in fact one of the exercises in math performance is a reverse lunge to an overhead press you're never leaving the ground in that movement but you can resist the way down slowly and then explode the weight up and that's you're now getting the benefits of explosive training without you know jumping in the air and landing. Train within your capabilities this is true for any form of exercise, okay and then once those capabilities expand then you train within those new capabilities and I'd like to comment I'd like to comment too that I think you made Adam it's you know if there's certain exercises that I like incorporate though so for instance for my cooler beer I've been doing suitcase carrying, right? Right I can carry 45 pound plate I can carry probably at least two cases of beer and for paddle boarding I do like single leg Romanian deadlifts I mean talk about balance and love that One of the best ways to work on capabilities like that is to do sports and activities I mean you keep paddle boarding you're going to maintain the ability to paddle board you know? Alright Brad we'll send over math performance so you'll have it You guys are the best, thanks so much Good one Yeah, aside from the common like heart disease cancer, right? Aside from those things if you look at people as they age they're the challenges that they that they come upon the things that tend to kill them are all strength related weakness so you look at balance falling down like that's all strength you just don't have strength and if you've I've worked with a lot of people in this age group and you can see it once they start to trip and they try to catch themselves they don't have to support themselves and it's like a slow motion fall boom and they fall down and then the bones aren't strong the joints aren't strong they break something and then it's real bad so it's like maintain strength This is the reason why the squat has been touted as the king of all exercises for so long because if you can maintain a good deep full range of motion squat for your whole life like you're going to be able to do a lot of you're firing on all cylinders yes it just it requires so much coordination from top to bottom and strength and mobility to do that that if you incorporate that and you get and you stay strong in that till your late years you're going to be pretty capable that doesn't mean you're going to be great with rotational strength and there's obviously aspects that you can but that's a goddamn good foundation right there is to be able to squat deep all the way into your 80s and 90s yeah and to kind of add on to like the moving fast part of it there's ways to do that with less impact and I think that's you know that's a concern especially like as you go further and you haven't been incorporating that enough and it's something that your body is going to have to kind of re-learn there's ways to progress that and using bands as a way to do that you know safe and effectively there's machines there's even like so this is where I would actually like probably take a client like that and we'll do like a salt bike or something we'll just slowly kind of ramp our speed up with that like a row machine exactly look you're not going to go from squatting 0lbs to 300lbs just like you wouldn't go from doing no explosive movements to doing to moving as fast as you can yeah so I just want to put that it's literally like this it's literally like this if this is new to you just move a little faster just a little bit and get and get good at that move a little faster and get good at that I just see a person thinking you know three foot yeah exactly jump box and ice skaters those two movements I'm not even wasting my time that would be like looking at a champion powerlifter and be like oh that's how it would I need to do yeah there's no there's no reason to even do that at all you can make a single step up an incredible explosive movement you know you can do a standing squat just do a little faster yeah that's it's just speed you just move a little bit faster last question is Ryan from Wisconsin what's up Ryan how can we help you hey how's it going guys yeah good so simple question is what do you do when the numbers are not making sense what I mean by that is my journey I've been an athlete my entire life about eight years ago I lost I went from 340 pounds down to about 255 pounds and then about a year after that we had our third child put on about 35 more pounds of that and then that's a little backstory two years ago started working out with a trainer again I work out with a trainer three times a week I do cardio usually 30 to 45 minutes before my weight training session with my trainer and then I try to do another 30 to 45 minutes in additional two times a week I also work with a nutritionist we've even interjected a chef who's preparing all of our lunches all of our dinners and my calorie intake right now was right around 1900 to 2100 calories a day just recently within the last week and after I was listening a lot more of you guys bumping up more adding another weight training session adding another 50 grams of protein so trying to get around that 200 to 220 but I've only lost 15 pounds in the last year and only 25 pounds in the last two years in total so I feel like the results are not quite matching the effort put in Ryan the numbers do make sense bro that's way too low calories what's your body weight man that's the activity that you got going on too what do you weigh right now 268 that's like a bikini competitor bro you're a big ass dude that's like I wouldn't want you at I don't know if I'd ever want you to cut down to even 2000 calories for training plus doing the cardio you're doing the reason why it's what's happening to you're just you're stalling out your body needs to be fed more what's more calories for all the work you're doing I definitely would put you on a reverse diet right now and increase core can tank for a while and kind of go on a bulk and get to a place where we're eating more like 2800 3000 plus calories before I reverse you or before I cut you back down in the other direction in the process you're focused on building strength what this should look like Ryan is over the process is that the scale shouldn't move much so you're slowly increasing calories the scale is going to stay relatively stable you're a lot stronger in the gym so the weight training you're really seeing results with the weight training and then when you get the calories up to where Adam said then you can cut from there and then you should start to see your body respond because right now you're stuck at this point where you're going to work out more and cut your calories even more I mean is that the direction we get you down to 1500 calories and then get you down to 1200 calories obviously that's going to be impossible to maintain so we got to reverse and focus on building muscle and speeding up your metabolism a bit before we cut again yeah for sure it's not sustainable to cut any further and that's the kind I'm comfortable at least I have been with the calories I'm eating I'm not comfortable with the progress that I been not seeing I have converted you know I was over 40% body fat when I started just measured last week I'm at 27 so I've converted a lot to muscle but still just obviously retaining it all in the torso area and that's where I like most other people would like to lose it yeah how tall are you 6'2", what sport did you play football yeah so you know athletes can be challenging because they tend to try to outwork everything hammer your way through it yeah so it's not working throw more it's not working throw more you got a lot of muscle in your body holy cow you've got some good muscle but your body is learning to become very efficient with the type of training and the type of calories you're consuming if your body is really doing a good job at becoming efficient which is there's nothing wrong with that supposed to do that but you can't keep going in this direction because I mean you can see right like okay you're going to cut 500 more calories that might result in another you know 5 to 10 pounds of weight loss you'll plateau again and then what do you do go down to the 500 now you're down to a thousand calories what's your trainer saying to you right now give you yeah so he's on board with adding more strength in backing off on the cardio you know he and I have had that conversation a lot about strength versus cardio and he says Ryan they're neither one was bad usually when people say only do strength training because they don't have the time to do both he's like if you can incorporate both that's at least what he recommends and that's been a little bit of the frustrating pieces you know we have the trainer the nutritionist the chef and all these people involved and doctors even I've gone to Mayo Clinic and had physicals done and you know saying hey this is the issue the math doesn't make sense I'm putting in all this effort and I understand where you're coming from as a former athlete it's like train harder go harder it's eventually got to work and it's just not working I would I would do this I would yeah I would make you strong if you were my client let's see how strong we can get you without the scale moving too much let's reverse diet you let's get you off the or reduce that type of cardio that you're doing and instead of incorporate more walking because cardio there's nothing wrong with cardio it's it's healthy for you but right now because we're trying to speed up your metabolism it is sending a bit of a conflicting signal that's the only thing because especially that low calorie cell so it's you got to understand this too if you if you are are doing cardio while you're fed that's one thing but doing cardio and only eating 1900 calories for the amount of muscle you have on your body your body is telling you exactly what it should tell you which is fuck you feed me bro feed me you're pushing me and you're only feeding me this much like I'm going to adapt and get used to it because I can't this is not what I want and so it's revolting against you right now so I would completely cut out the cardio before the lifting for sure because the goal is to build strength and that would cut into that I don't want to do that all and then the other places that you are doing traditional cardio I would still walk I would still move power walking is okay but not intense hard cardio and then I would reduce the probably amount of days a week you're lifting down to like a three day a week full body like maps and a ball here's where you kind of also have to reprogram your brain like you're doing a great job getting in shape but this is a body compositional goal you have this is a different pursuit that you're looking at right now so such a good point you know you have to you have to look at it completely differently and be open to a completely different formula I don't think this is the path right this is the one that used to do all the time I completely like relate so you know I could just grind my way I could go to the gym I could bust you know I could burn calories like you know the best of them but in terms of like getting my body to form and shape the way I wanted that's not the formula for this yeah I yeah that's right yeah let's try and reverse you up to up to three thousand at least calories and then cut from there I think and really and really see how much strength we can build where would you recommend how would you recommend adding those all protein or kind of a mixture between just definitely protein because you're definitely more protein because you're you're on the lower end of protein anyway so I would I would push mostly protein and then I would then I would split the difference on fats and carbs and see what you would you like better on there I mean really you're 265 you said your body weight yeah how many grams of protein you're eating a day again up until last week probably around 150 this past 10 days it's around 200 yeah 200 is good I would go up to 230 220 230 and then you could that'll be the first reverse diet portion and then from there you could add more fats and carbs if you don't want to add more protein yeah honestly that's a good start right to like right now and then and why and you won't see a big you definitely you won't see a fat loss game by doing this so since we're telling you to switch over to like a maps anabolic that means we're cutting back on your your calorie burn on with lifting weights we're cutting back on your calorie burn in the cardio by you increasing just protein that might be enough to already start to send you in the reverse direction and building some muscle and then we could add more calories after that what do you think yeah I like that yeah look look at it this way okay you're in a position where you like okay this doesn't make any sense my body's not budging in order for me to get my body to budge based off of what I've been doing that would mean I'd have to cut my calories more or work out even more and we know what that ends okay we know what the end of that looks like and it doesn't seem sustainable so the goal is let's get your metabolism to do more work for you not you like not you do more work but your metabolism do more work for you so this is going to take a little bit of time and investment in getting the metabolism to respond in the direction that we want that means you have to feed it more focus on building more muscle that's the most effective way to do that I want to send maps anabolic to you and I also want to give you access to our private forum so we can check in with you so that'd be awesome yeah I would love to hear you go through this process and I would say the first month the goal is to bump the protein reduce all the cardio activity drop and run maps anabolic which is a three time a week full body routine and then trigger sessions on the off days follow the trigger sessions like they're designed and stay in touch with us we're in that forum let us know how you're feeling there's going to come a moment by the way this happens my athletes always okay is you're going to feel like you're not doing enough you're going to be like I'm not doing enough and and and then the next battle you're going to have is going to be the psychological warfare the the old school mentality that you could you could throw the shoulder pads on go fucking hammer it out and work your way through this goal that's like Justin said body composition is different than becoming a badass on the field or becoming a badass athlete it's a total different game and so you're going to be challenged with that and so we're going to be there to hopefully support you so make sure you're talking to us in that form as you go through because that's your next challenge so you're doing like five days a week of cardio about 35 to 40 minutes you know if you got rid of that if you got rid of that and just did maybe 12 or 13 minute walks after breakfast lunch and dinner that's it so after breakfast lunch dinner go to do 10 to 15 minute walk so that's like 30 to 45 minutes a day of walking that's a wonderful trade and I think the walking is going to serve you better for this particular goal right now which is to speed up your metabolism which by the way doesn't mean we won't reintroduce cardio down the road but right now when we're trying to rebuild the metabolism because here's an area where like a trainer like I can tell this trainer is going to be this way because he's already told you that yeah the only reason why someone wouldn't do cardio is because they don't have the time that's not true if I'm trying to build a metabolism up right now and I'm and my client was eating as low of calories as you are also adding cardio to that is not benefiting their metabolism it's just not it's that's not advantage is to speeding your metabolism up it's the complete opposite signal that we're sending low calorie lots of activity does not make my metabolism faster what will make the metabolism faster is sending a signal to the body to build more muscle and feeding it the calories it needs to actually do that and build muscle that's what we want to focus on now when we get you to a place where you feel really good you're eating lots of calories then we go okay now let's start to reintroduce this in the walking three times a day you know 15 minutes 10 to 15 minutes which you know equates to you know between 30 to 45 minutes a day of walking because it's broken up because it's post-prandial right post-meal you're going to get hormonal benefits so it's going to manage your insulin levels your blood sugar levels better active recovery it's active recovery because it's broken up it's not sending as loud of a you know build endurance become more efficient signal so if you tell your trainer that I'm sure they won't even argue just say hey look instead of doing this structured cardio I'm going to walk three times a day you know breakfast lunch and dinner so it'll be the same amount of time maybe because he's telling he's having him do cardio before he weight trains so that's kind of an old-school mentality of you know get him into the fat burning zone before he lifts weight so that he's burning fat the entire workout and so if he kind of yeah and to be fair he's not telling me to do I you know more of like that's what he's always done and you guys tell me to cut out cardio I don't have any problem with that I fucking hate cardio you know so when I do cardio I I mean I'm 265 pounds so that's a ton of pounding on the joints so I like hill hill walks and bike and you know all sorts of stuff besides running a lot yeah three walks a day after breakfast lunch and dinner I you're gonna love that yeah that you'll love and then lift it'll be more enjoyable and it'll benefit your body yeah and go lift and get strong we'll send you maps in a ball you're gonna be in the private forum and let's reverse diet yeah let's let's keep in contact I want to see how this works out by the way all of us have worked with clients in much much more challenging positions in the similar context yeah and have seen tremendous I had I had a female client who was doing seven days a week of cardio twice a day lifting which was going crazy her calories are 1200 I got her to lifting three days a week two days a week of cardio and I got a 2200 calories this is over the course of I think eight months and she got leaner so that's just one example so you're gonna do totally fine you just have to approach it the right way now I appreciate it guys and you mentioned hormonal but I mean I've already gone down that road too so I've tried to lift up everything under the carpet to see what's going on and you know I appreciate it sounds like at least not gonna hurt anything might as well try it that's it what kind of results we got yeah stay in touch with us Ryan trust process got it thank you thanks brothers appreciate it no problem that's a frustrating position to be in yeah how many times have you had somebody doing everything yeah you know and it's like look if you don't know what's going on if you don't understand the process that is so frustrating because it's not like look you could be not getting results not losing weight and be like yeah my diets crap yeah I'm not working out okay this makes sense but if you're working out you're tracking you're training you're like you're looking at your food intake you're looking at your workouts this guy's hiring a trainer he's got someone making his meals for him you're looking at you're like what is going on this doesn't make it so so frustrating but it's literally his body is doing what it's being asked so it's it's not like it's got a broken body it's doing exactly what he's asking you to which is to become efficient how many more people do you think that we have to help like this to get the fucking message across to people of why we talk about cardio the way we talk about cardio it's like I'm so over this debate in argument with people it's like this is actually very common it happened and now in athletes too especially because athletes want to work like Justin's point want to work everything off and burn the calories like crazy but this would happen to most of my clients because we are taught if you want to lose fat go run burn calories burn calories less eat less eat better and so you go from one side of not doing any of that shit and eating like trash to eating really good and which means low way lower calories than what you were before and increasing all this cardio and then you eventually get to a place you and by the way it works initially you see the results obviously making a change like that seems like it's as easy as a math problem right until the math problem doesn't work that's right until you hit just like what he's saying like man the math isn't adding up well actually the math is adding up it's doing exactly what you're what you're telling your body but that's the problem is that everybody gets caught up in this like oh just run more or eat less it's like well eventually you run out of runway and then what the fuck do you do it's because people do not consider the body adapts the body's ability to adapt and change and your metabolism is not stationary yeah it changes all the time and if you tell your body to be more efficient it'll become more efficient and it's really good at being efficient it is much more challenging to make your body less efficient with calories to burn more calories so if you tell it to burn less calories it will and it'll do it effectively and then you'll get stuck in this position where you're eating nothing and working out like crazy and then eventually you give up and that's when they hire us and we gotta switch everything out look if you like this show head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides we have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal you can also find all of us on social media so Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong well-developed chest when I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time chest was up there with the work yeah it was for me for sure I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique