 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we're joined by Manik Sarkar, the political member of the CPI, and the former chief minister of Tripura. And we're going to be talking about the situation of COVID-19 as well as both in the state as well as in the country. Thank you so much for joining us. So first of all, my question was regarding the COVID-19 situation in the state itself. So the Tripura is one of the states which has been quite severely affected in the region, both in terms of the number of cases as well as in terms of the number of deaths. So could you talk a bit about how the BJP government has been handling the issue? There have been a lot of protests by the left over there on regarding the handling of the pandemic as well. So could you talk a bit about how it has been handling the issue? Initial stage of this COVID-19 attack, the situation of the state was not that bad. But what is the state of affairs nowadays? Total number of positive cases so far found, it has crossed 25,000. And the number of deaths yesterday night, it has touched 270. I think by this time, number must have increased. From this, you can well imagine the gravity of the situation here in Tripura. That's why I would like to say really, really the COVID-19 situation in Tripura is very, very alarming or is up. What you have asked, how the government of Tripura is handling all these things, I would say very humbly and modestly, right from the beginning, the BJP-led government in Tripura have been taking lackluster attitude towards this problem. At the initial stage, the number of positive cases are very, very limited. No death at the initial stage was there. Perhaps that might have created some self-sception in the mind of the political leadership of the government of Tripura. But we have warned them. This is just starting, how far it will go, what will be the gravity in the coming days, considering the international situation and national situation. And location of Tripura from three sides, it is actually garralled by international border, particularly Bangladesh in the large area. And situation in Bangladesh at that point of time was not that good. And now also, it is being aggravated, you know. So keeping all these things in our mind, we tried our level best to draw the attention of the government for taking necessary measures so that right from the beginning, they can well take a lead. But I would say, wrong handling, inept handling of management of this problem. Regions are many. The doctors, they are the frontline warrior. This very phrase word has been used by our government of India. Very good. All right. They cannot move on their own without the assistance of nurses, paramedics, and other supporting here. So it was the demand throughout the country. And also they have earned these experiences what the other countries in other parts of the world have been taking with regard to the protection of doctors, nurses, paramedics, and other helping hands. And the very popular collaboration that is PPE, personal preventive equipment that was very, very inadequate in Tripura. We have been actually right from the beginning saying, until and unless they are protected and they feel free from any sort of uncertainty, it would not be easy for them to discharge their, I should say, holy responsibilities. But the government of Tripura did not take care of that with that seriousness. Then the most important thing is this. It was actually over centralized. But right from the beginning, we have been saying, until today we are saying that it should be decentralized. I would say the infrastructure, health infrastructure during the left-hand government with all its limitation tried its level best to decentralize it right from the state capital to the grassroots level that is gram panchayat level. What we have said don't depend on the tertiary level hospitals located at Agartala. That is the capital town. Eight districts are there. 23 administrative subdivisions are there. So at the initial stage, we have requested and advised that all the district hospitals should be equipped. Of course, before the breaking out of this pandemic to take care of all this in protest, et cetera, keeping all this in mind, the lab of those district hospitals are not actually equipped. So we told them at a time you cannot gradually, gradually, you please try to strengthen the district level hospitals. And then you come down to sub-division level hospitals. Then, PhD, of course, in PhD, this sort of lab development is not that easy. And we have not asked for that also at the initial stage. But that was not properly heated too. Just a cursory comment, yes, we are thinking of. But I should say it failed to take care of this very particular aspect. Then most important thing was this. More than 44,000 people, they have been migrated to other states of our country. Most of them, they actually deserted the state in search of work and food. Apart from them, some other people are there for treatment, for examination, for actually visiting different areas, education, et cetera, all these things, are going to make their relatives. That number may not be that many. But most of the number, among these 44,000, this number actually has been provided by the state government itself, the GPP-led government. So, yes, there was a hue and cry, all of a sudden, within the gap of four hours, this lockdown throughout the country, that created a lot of problems. Like demonetization, like this one country, one nation, one tax, that has created a lot of problems. We know all these things. So, this time also, only with the gap of four hours, this actually lockdown has started taking place. So, these people throughout the country, they were quite at a loss, how they have come to their place of residence. So, in this situation, in Tripura also, we ask the government, because this is actually surrounded by the international border. Two countries are there. Then people are coming by rail, by road, by airport, air, et cetera, all these things. We requested that these migrants, when they will start returning back, they should be taken in the hands of the government and first start, test, identify the positive cases. Instead of doing that, out of five, they are testing one. That actually created a mess. Doctors, more than 30 doctors have been actually attacked because of positive. Nurses, good number of nurses, paramedics and people who are involved in cleaning activities in the hospital, security personnel, good number of them, they also have been attacked. Number is not being disclosed by the state government. And some of our doctors, very good doctors, they have been forced to take shelter in their own residence and one or two of our doctors have been sent to other state for their better treatment. That is the situation, please, you can try to understand what is going on. Root cause, another cause is this, that the government has failed to take the doctors into confidence. Particularly senior doctors, experienced doctors who are available in our state and working in the hospitals, particularly in the tertiary hospitals. And they should have been given free hands so that they can devote themselves to take care of the patients. Interventions were there and not only free hands, they need all sorts of assistance from the government, not only financial, from the administrative side also, but that was not given. So all these actually have created a lot of problems. So in this context, I also wanted to ask about the CPIM and the left front itself. In Tripura, has there been any regaining of the ground that was lost, what has been the people's response to the issues raised by you and how do you see the way forward for the left in Tripura but also maybe at a national level itself? First of all in Tripura, braving all odds, attacks, psychological, physical, administrative, keeping police unmoved, I should say. Police cannot be blamed. They are actually played in the hands of the ruling clique as form. Some of them perhaps try to take some initiative in an independent manner. They have to face for all these things. So in this situation, for democracy, for food, for job, before pandemic, CPIM and left, they came down on the street, started raising all these slogans, all these demands, put forth before the government, inside the assembly, outside the assembly, mobilization were going on, attacks were there, threats were there, but all these things could not stop left to move, stop CPIM to move. During this COVID pandemic, after formal withdrawal of lockdown, again with the CPIM and the left, started coming on the streets. At the national level, what I have already mentioned, the burning demands to take care of the daily wage earners, peasantry, workers, working people, unemployed, we have been raising all these things. What we have been experiencing, started getting response from the common people. Among them, a section who deserted us, again started returning back. I am telling you, in the center, busy village government, in the state, busy village government, spent only 30 months. In this situation, when they are threatening that we have come to stay for a long, long time, it may be 25, 30, 40 years, but in this situation, those who were the BGP flag bearers, poor people, semi-middle class, at this stage, they have started deserting them, taking red flag in their hands, and openly declaring, we have committed mistake. Now it is clear to us, there is no alternative to left. We again mobilized ourselves on the platform of left and it has to be strengthened. Work may come. It's a very encouraging thing. Within a very short span of time, through their limited experiences, they have realized this is not the government has come to work for the people. This is the government of the rich people. They are the looters. They are against the poor people, against the common people. So this is one. If this is the reaction and observation, it might have other reaction, other picture, what is that? BGP has started losing their ground, supporting base. They have started realizing all these things. That's why they are trying to concentrate on facistic attack, attack on democracy. We know this may come, but the people of Tripura, we are trying to house their braving boys. Face it, unite yourself, bring new people with you, go ahead, otherwise you will not be in a position to survive. Your back is actually just dust to the wall. There is no space further to go back. Now you have to proceed further. There is no other alternative. So they are getting gradually, gradually isolated. So they have no other alternative but to resort to further attack. Yes, people are getting them prepared to face all these things. Yesterday also this sort of thing happened. Our tribal friends, under the leadership of Ghanavukti Purisha, they organized demonstration to submit their memorandum. They were attacked in one area. The other area of people, those who came to attack them, unitedly they left the area, leaving their motorbikes. When police came for their rescue, this is what is going to happen. We are not telling people. They come in your hands, ladies in your hands, only you are telling people, you protect yourself. So people will decide what measures they will adopt to protect themselves and face themselves. So governments should realize all this. This is what they are trying to do. That will not ultimately allow them to go in an unending length. I am telling you. So about the national situation, what you have said, that how the left, the national level and in Tripura should go forward. I must say, not for Tripura alone. Tripura is part and parcel of India. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Of the masses, united masses struggle, there is no other option. Why I am saying so? During this pandemic, you see, RSS dictated BGP led government at the center. They have been adopting one after another anti-people, disasters, police, for the benefit of monopoly capital, corporate houses, both for India and abroad. Overnight they are working for them. They are not in a position and mood to listen to people getting day by day, very, very agreed. Riding roughshod what the country, the world has observed in the last parliament session, small session, what they did in the Rajeshwara, I don't like to narrate all these things, throttling the democracy. Parliamentary democracy is the root of our Indian democracy after independence. That is under attack. Very bad situation, economic situation, pre-pandemic, that was just on the verge of economic recession. Now it has aggravated, now it is grasped. Some people are theoretically says, yes, yes, yes, not yet recession. I don't agree with them. I may not be economist, but where is demand? If you have no work, if you have no money, if you have no purchasing capacity, you cannot go to market. Demand is falling down. If demand is falling down, supply quotient does not come. Economics, most important point is demand and supply. On this it is a revolving point. Everything is actually revolving around. That is coming down. And our GDP, first quarter, it is minus 23. I think in the history of independence India, this first time, this sort of thing actually has happened. It will again aggravate the way they are moving. So to stop the resistance of people, struggle of people, to stop raising their demands, what they are doing? Trying to divide the people. Raising the caste question, the religious question. And targeting the minority particularly the Muslim minority. Very bad thing. That means they are indirectly attacking the constitution of India. Secular principles of our country. Democracy, the main thing is equal rights to all. And as it test is what is the state of affairs the minorities of a country. If they are actually enjoying all rights then you can say, yes, democracy is there. But the minorities, particularly the Muslim minorities, this is the second largest in the world next to Indonesia, even higher than Pakistan and Bangladesh they are being attacked like anything. What is going on? What happened to Delhi? What sort of charts they are making one after another? Were being targeted? You know better than me. I am in the distance corner of the country but I have been observing all these things. Very very bad situation. What they are doing? Attacking thoroughly right and left democracy. And now attacking our constitution. I am not detailing all these things. They are thinking of rewriting. Rewrite our history. New culture they are trying to inculcate to our children. Those who cannot differ their mother and aunt they are trying to inculcate new culture, their culture. So-called Hindutva culture fascistic culture they have learned it from Mussolini learned it from Mussolini then Hitler if you read their literature you will find all these things. Mussolini is still their master. That way they are shaping their RSS. So main target is this. So in this situation what I am telling you see not the left alone yes left whatever strength they have equally not strong in each and every state in some states we have strength we may not win election but we can mobilize people people are there to listen us to those states and we should try our level best to stand them the left unity and pose the alternative to all this in a pragmatic manner. Don't say socialism at this moment but against the capitalist system that is in crisis that's why they are attacking democracy taking autocratic steps taking this fascistic measures this is the sign of ugly crisis of capitalist economy so in this situation it has to be destroyed alternative socialism there is no other alternative it is not a matter of dream it has to come because you have to change the relation between the productive force and productive relation this method this mood should be changed so all this cannot be brought until and unless ousting capitalist system from the state power and bringing the socialist system I don't like to detail all this since but at this moment from the pragmatic point of view the demands you should raise which you had on that one point of time even during British rule through a struggle those are being snatched one after another that should be stopped and prevented and try your level best to get back all these things economic demands trade union rights so in this situation left shall have to take special initiative to mobilize working class working people peasantry and agriculture workers they are the village proletariat so if unity between them is developed and it is solid then they will be able to draw the attention of the other sections of people the semi middle class middle class so this will be the core so left has to take this initiative but left should not close their eyes they shall have to open their eyes and try to mobilize other non-left non-BGP political parties they may not agree with the left on all questions it cannot be but that might be a limited space limited demands on democracy on also some economic aspects wherever there is agreement broadest possible unity of left and other democratic forces there should forced and they should unleash ceaseless struggle it is not monsoonal I would say in a humble manner ceaseless struggle is necessary and what I have said already alternative should be projected only just to return back get back the snatched demand that will not suffice need alternative and internationally now people have started thinking all these things socialist countries they have shown their metal in tackling this covid pandemic and also consolidating their economic situation even in this crisis alternative they have shown and non socialist countries too even in USA people have started thinking different way this capitalism imperialism and adopting facistic measure this is the ugly face of capital system we will not take care of the problem people have to start thinking after us start for thinking alternative thank you so much for talking to us and giving us information as well as perspectives on the way forward and that's all we have time for today keep watching us