 I'm Roshin, the academic manager at Babel Academy of English, so we're based in Dublin City Centre. We have adult students and then throughout the year we'd also have junior groups and more school as well. Can I start by asking you what challenges has the pandemic posed in your school? Sure, so I guess the big challenge initially was just in March when we had to close the school building basically with one day, less than one day's notice, so that was huge because we just had to move online kind of suddenly and although now we're all familiar with Zoom and that kind of thing I guess even though people would have used things like Skype and other platforms still kind of the familiarity with online teaching and learning is definitely, it was much less than it was now so I guess that was a big challenge as well for people and people always get a bit scared when something is new and then I guess the other thing was the uncertainty because throughout the last couple of months a lot of things have been changing you have updates on you know opening reopening and closing and you know visa situation and then the green list for flights so I suppose yeah that the uncertainty of what was to come was another thing to manage with with people and then the actual reopening as well when we're opening our doors and the nervousness about you know making sure everybody was safe and yeah just that that everybody was okay both physically and mentally. Yeah, the first concern was that is everybody safe is everybody okay absolutely and so what responses then did you did you have to that to those challenges and how did that develop because I know it was kind of an evolving situation anyway. Yeah yeah I suppose embracing the fact that it was evolving was really important and initially it was a quick response we really had to give so we had to ourselves get to grips with technology and make sure the teachers were trained up so I think that that was really important to to get everybody on board quickly and get their feedback and make sure that people were comfortable and confident going forward that you know when we were going online that that was really important and then just being flexible and making sure that everyone kind of was aware that we're all in it together and definitely I think when students and teachers went online and that was actually really nice it was lovely communication between people you know everyone was sharing what they were learning and so that idea that it was it was a process was really important and I think as well just reaching out being open and definitely working with other schools and people like yourself and other and other you know colleagues in the industry talking and sharing ideas was hugely important and involving experts as well so when we were reopening we worked with a safety consultant to help us develop our plan and to obviously then we had to think okay this is our plan but we have to be flexible and to change it as needed but definitely engaging people who who know a lot about that was really important and then you know involving a lot of feedback so we definitely learned from talking to students because they are you know it's a new experience for them and for us we don't know how how they are going to be able to access different platforms that we have because they have different devices there are different locations different internet connections so really involving them was hugely important and but I suppose just when you're mentally adapting as well it's really important to have that communication I just show you actually just the online classes so I guess we we thought it very important that we would keep online classes to be live you know so that students have they're looking at their teacher they're you know communicating so they have lots of you know opportunities to to give feedback as well throughout the lesson and to have as much of you know all the benefits that they can get you know that they would have in the classroom so let me just see here okay this is yeah an example of our online class and I suppose it was nice as well for students to to be able to get to know each other online through things like breakout rooms depending on the platform that you use you know we were able to do that and I think that for students we had some students who start their course with us while online so we didn't actually get to meet them in person so and having the the video aspect to it was was really lovely and important and also as well we we decided and actually this is something we'll bring into kind of what we do going forward is being able to have an online induction with people before they actually start their course so obviously there's an importance in training people and checking that technology is working you know before they have their first lesson for the first day but now we are thinking of course in the future when students are coming to our and for example before they even leave their home country it's really nice to be able to give them idea of what to expect to talk to them about it and they see your face before they actually arrive as well and that familiarity is just important in making people feel comfortable yeah I think it has brought up kind of the fact that that's possible you know of course it was always possible before but we never really kind of yeah yeah that's definitely learning for us going forward I do think it's pretty funny that we had we didn't have all this technology before you know before the pandemic and we had to we really have to use it but now I guess it's just kind of me thing I think you know the staff as well think well what is out there that we that we haven't really explored it that we could use in non-crisis times you know in a bit more of a of a gradual way to bring things in so yeah that's definitely yeah funny so what was what were your students telling you about the situation and how they were coping with it and how they were responding to what you were trying to do for them sure well so initially when we went online and we did a survey with students to find out you know how how are they getting on and and then we also went into the classes we would drop into into the online classes so just share with you some of the feedback from from the actual survey so this is when we actually when we went back into the classroom just on our safety procedures in place and students coming back in on the first day but yeah so so while online we we did a survey we just wanted to check how students felt actually it was overwhelmingly positive which was really good to hear we did fear that that people would have bigger problems than they actually had so that was a relief and that was great to know and that some students were actually saying you know this is really flexible really good for me you know going forward I I'm happy with this as an aspect of of my learning so so that was really nice so I guess things like that the the platforms and the tools that we were using were easy to access was really important and and certainly as I said the induction that we give students before they come back you know if they're sorry before they start the course is definitely important so that they're you know when they're nervous on their first day they don't have to be afraid of technology as well as you know meeting all the new students and the new teacher and then that they were getting the same amount of practice particularly speaking practice in the classroom was was really important and so yeah students like things like coffee at home and not wearing a mask when they're online and but but also from talking to students we got a little small piece of feedback that you know that were really useful important like depending on the device they have what documents were easy for them to open or not so and that was really good and then giving them a bit of training on using breakout rooms and then in terms of say the duration of the class thinking about how you know when we have breaks and how long the break is that kind of thing just they're just small things but they're very practical and can really make a difference in in a lesson during the day when we have you know a couple of hours online that's really important to be making sure that that people have the correct breaks and yeah but I guess as I said generally really positive feedback from students and from teachers as well and some of our teachers wouldn't have been familiar with using the technology that we're using now and they've actually gained a lot of confidence from being able to use it now and have it as an additional tool going forward. Was technical support for teachers and for students something then that you had to kind of build into your program? Absolutely yes yes so with the teachers before they taught online we had a couple of training sessions and what was actually really useful as well was giving them a chance to observe another teacher teaching so the teacher who was observing then had the kind of the point of view of being a student so they were in the class looking at another teacher doing it so and they were to participate and maybe chat to the students in breakout rooms that was really helpful. Then with students as well as the introduction that they get before they start their course also just throughout online that we are there and available and other staff if they can't log on that they email us they get a response straight away because there's always technical difficulties no matter what you're doing so just that they they're able to access us all of the time during class is important too. How do you see the situation developing then in the in the medium term medium to long term in your context? Yeah so it's very hard to know in terms of you know what's going to happen globally at this situation and travel but we definitely have had inquiries you know from people who are interested in traveling and want to travel as soon as they can. Safety is a huge thing so people are you know they want to know what are your procedures what do you have in place so that you can show them what to expect when they come. In terms of teaching and learning I think definitely keeping an aspect of of online as part of how we deliver the program is really important because even when we were back in the classroom for a couple of months there we found that students still wanted to access the online platform in terms of like downloading documents when outside the class time and maybe if they've missed a class they can see what the teacher has done and they can miss writing assignments different things like that so certainly the way that we are delivering classes will will benefit from from what has happened in the last couple of months. Yeah no absolutely once we've discovered things that we're not going to put back in the in the box now now that we're we're there what you're feeling about online versus face-to-face classes and we won't take over from the other or if that's not possible how do you see it? Yeah I don't think online will will completely take over from from in-person classes I don't think so because particularly some students really like the in-classroom face-to-face classes and despite becoming more familiar with technology it's still a bit of a challenge and they just prefer face-to-face so I don't think it's going to completely take over I think and for some students though it gives extra flexibility and if people can't travel then you know or depending on their work that kind of thing or maybe they want sort of to be able to access online out you know maybe in the evening that kind of thing be named to offer different types of programs for those kind of students will you know we're adding that to to our portfolio programs and that's going to be you know that's going to be develop going forward but as I said with our face-to-face classes there will still be an element of online access there and available for students so that it just adds to the face-to-face interaction. Would you say that having to meet these challenges and solve those problems has improved how we do things overall? I would definitely I'm surprised that I'm saying this you know back in March I wouldn't probably wouldn't have thought that I would be but yeah just definitely and as we talked about earlier realizing there are you know there's an awful lot that we could be doing and exploring and trying and testing and in terms of technology and just thinking differently about programs opening up to different methods of teaching and learning and the idea that it's continuous improvement all the time there's no there's no end to it that you're always going to have to adapt yes we have the pandemic at the moment but who knows what's going to happen in the future there could be something else and that's a major challenge so just that we kind of always keep that that flexibility and the communication with people that you know how are you getting on can we do this better is there some other way that we can adapt programs to meet your needs.