 When you met him in 1957, did he strike you as the leader that we know today? Somebody would lead the movement to the point where we would get legal recognition of civil rights in this country? You know, he was very unimpressive deliberately because he was genuinely humble. He laughed and joked. And like, you could get him to talk about his children. You could get him to talk about his wife or his church. But you couldn't get him to talk about politics. You couldn't get him to talk about theology. And I was trying to understand where this faith that he had came from. And he didn't want to talk about that. I mean, it was his calling. But remember, by 1957, he had already had his home bombed. And he'd been sued twice. It was the next year that he was stabbed. And in 1960, he was arrested in DeKalb County in Atlanta. After coming from Montgomery to Atlanta, he'd be safe. He was picked up, picketing Rich's department store. And when they let him go, the DeKalb County police picked him up and charged him with violating a probation for having expired driver's license. They took him into the jail. And in the middle of the night, they put him in chains. And they took him down from Decatur, Georgia to Reedsville, which is about a four-hour ride on no expressways back then. So he was in chains in the back of the car or the patty wagon. I'm not quite sure. But there was nothing back there with him but a German shepherd. And he was sure that he was going to his death. And he would always say, look, death is the easy part. Everybody's going to die. And you don't have anything to say about how you die or when you die. You're going to die. He said, the only thing you have something to say about is what you die for. And the only way you can have something to say about what you die for is devote your life to doing something that if you die, it will live on after you. And he would talk matter-of-factly like that about death, even as a 30-year-old. And then if he saw you getting uncomfortable, he'd say, but you don't have to worry. If they get you, I can preach you into heaven.