 Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the session, The Future of the Belt and Road Initiative. My name is Tianwei. I'm a moderator and a host coming from China Global Television Network. It's a great honor to be sitting together with our panelists here today and to illustrate the potential of a very significant project. You know, it's important these days that we'll be able to get ourselves out of the daily social media tweets and drama stories, to be able to look at the future and the potential of some of the most important issues, particularly about development that is taking place around the world. Therefore, my great honor to introduce our panelists, Nassru Hamid, Minister of State for Power, Energy and Mineral Resources from Bangladesh. So good to see you. Song Zhiping, Chairman of the Board with China National Building Material Group from the People's Republic of China. Good to see you. Olga Yarova, Under Secretary General, Executive Secretary from the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe. Based in Geneva. Good to see you. Thank you. Last but certainly not least, Bruno Marquez, who is the Senior Fellow with the Remy University of China. He's, of course, originally coming from Europe. Thank you. Should we give them a round of applause, maybe, to encourage them to have some real insight to share, eventually, for this hour? Thank you so much. I want to start with you, Mr. Minister. Geopolitics these days has already topped the discussion topics for every panel. Probably we have to handle them as well. How is Bangladesh likely to handle that balance among so many important economic players investing in your country, including those investing on the Belt and Road Initiative? Thank you very much, actually. Tell you frankly, somehow the BRI have instigated all the big brothers together to invest in Bangladesh properly. Really? Yes. Tell us how. Like, see, when BRI came over with a big package of investment plans in the power, mostly in the power and energy sectors, not even if you keep aside of the power and this invested in the railways, big roads like that, we found out that Japan came up the big investment plans, more than $6 billion. India came up with a credit line of $3.5 billion. Even we recently found out that Americans has opened up the commercial office in Bangladesh. So it's quite a good harmony picture, what I see, and it's very beneficial for Bangladesh also. And we got about more than $5.5 billion from China as investment and also in debt, actually. Anything else? Very interesting. That makes your work fascinating, isn't it? You need to come and talk, doing shuttling diplomacy in a way among all the players. The political picture in Bangladesh is friendship with everyone. So we don't quarrel with anybody. Our country is open for investment for everyone. We have a very good package for investments, like 10 years tax holidays, anybody interested to invest in the infrastructures, power, any place, any industry, new industries. Our government, Sheikh Hasina, has setting up 108 economic zones. For different countries, there are countries who have already been booked these economic zones, like Japan has already booked up an economic zone. China already came up with economic zones. India already shown interest in investment. So what we think actually, somehow BRI has somehow helped our country in other way to bring all the big investors and attract investors in Bangladesh in other ways. Good to know the parametric, panoramic view shall I say that you have outlined for us about investment from foreign investors into your country. Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, Mr. Song, So, Mr. Minister Hamid, just to talk about the effect of BRI in terms of attracting investments to the developing countries. Bangladesh is a clear example of that. So will you anticipate more competition in countries like Bangladesh in terms of investments? Well, I think this is something we have all expected because the BRI is not an initiative for Chinese businesses or Chinese companies alone. It is an initiative of collaboration and a collective investment scheme for all international players. For our company, we are also cooperating with third parties in markets such as Africa to cooperate with Snader, from Germany and also from France, companies like Demons and also from Japan, Mississippi. So for the implementation of BRI, it comprises both competition and cooperation. These are two trends developing in tandem. And for China, Belt and Road Initiative is not something we design or propose for our own benefits. It's an initiative we intend to share with all international partners. So I don't regard this as a source of competition. I believe this comprises a lot of opportunities. Maybe competition is the main theme, but cooperation is only the decoration on the side. Someone will say, hey, are you a loser? Indeed, some people may say that you're being diplomatic and competition is at the core. Do you agree? No, I do not agree with such a comment. For example, in Central Asia, Southeast Asia markets, we are cooperating with Mississippi from Japan. We build a lot of cement plants in those markets. Mississippi had the history of producing cement, but they have since transformed their business, they are still very developed in providing other services. So we are cooperating with them. In Europe, we're also cooperating with Snader from France. They have many good electrical components and parts we can use in our projects. And the same can be said for our cooperation with Siemens. So for my group, we have a global procurement policy. We are open to cooperation with a lot of multinational companies from different markets. In the cement plants, for example, we have 50% of indigenous equipment. The other half is procured from our global partners. And for projects, they have won the bid. They also buy from us. So what I want to point out is that BRI follows the basic logic of business, which is cooperation. You cannot develop by yourself. With cooperation, you will develop faster and also have better cost-benefit performance. When Mr. Song was talking, quite a number of names coming from European companies pop up. That's exactly your area, which is to promote development of Europe and also interaction with the rest of the world. Tell us about what you're focusing on, especially when you have a neighbor sitting on your left side who's been talking about Eurasia over the decades. Madam Undersecretary General, please. And I would like to continue what was thought here, because if we speak about competition versus cooperation, I would add one another word, and this is opportunity. And I consider Belt and Road as opportunity for everyone under one condition that we need to behave responsibly. It means we should keep in our minds economic sustainability, financial sustainability, environmental sustainability, and social sustainability. And if you speak about connection of Europe with Belt and Road or Euro Asia, let me explain, because people tend to mix it. So I am leading the United Nations, one of the five regional commissions of the United Nations. We are five. We have a regional commission for Africa, Latin America, and so on. So if I tell them for Europe, it is indeed 56 member states. And it means the EU is exactly 50%, because they are 28 still with the UK. Then we have the whole Balkans, the former Soviet Union, including Central Asia. But our member state is, for instance, the United States. Canada, Israel, Turkey, and Switzerland. So this is like European continent plus. And from these 56 member states, 30 of them are on the Belt and Road. So and this is why I'm here and why it's our concern that we work together and that we are really behaving responsibly. And today I would like specifically speaking about environmental sustainability. We'll let you to talk about that a bit later when everybody really also need to handle that issue. Mr. Marques, one of the things I didn't introduce is that you're not only working in China for the think tanks, but also work for conservative think tanks in the United States as well. So we want to make sure those double identity is being revealed. To you, the Eurasian idea, it has been there for quite some time. Why and how much really do you think the momentum of the Belt and Road will be able to make it a more bigger, more or a bigger possibility? Yes, I mean, that is correct. I work for a conservative think tank in the United States and for a rather hawkish think tank in Beijing. I don't think there are many people that can do that. Okay, that's fair. But that's exactly what I've been trying to do to look at the question from both sides. And you always have to look at the question from both sides. The thing about the Belt and Road, I'm more and more convinced as I get to know it better. The ambition of connecting Europe and Asia and everything that is in between, of course, India, Southeast Asia, is really what is at the heart of the Belt and Road. It is a new kind of globalization because it is a globalization that incorporates difference and incorporates competition because Europe and China have very different ways of doing things. And China, I think, is already being forced to look at the world, change in reaction to the way things are done in other countries and other regions, adapt, as Mr. Song was saying, this process of adaptation. And I think that's the richness of the Belt and Road that is forcing China to change, to adapt, to learn from other regions of the world. So I wouldn't necessarily think that competition is a bad thing. I mean, the globalization we had from 1989 to 2008, perhaps it sounded better to our years if you come from the West because it was a globalization on Western terms, under Western rules, but that was not sustainable. Now we have a globalization that is much more divided, much more fractured, where different regions have to come together without abandoning their beliefs. And that's the challenge, I think, for the next 20 years. Okay, so everybody has already set the stage, right? From the minister, it's about working with everybody as much as possible and try to do that tightrope walking or find balance, maybe a better word. For Mr. Song, coming from China, as an executive of the company, it's about trying to seek cooperation, while at the same time make sure grasp those opportunities. For Madam Under Secretary General, it's about environmental issues, it's about making it green. And for Mr. Mikesh, it's about an idea that finally probably could be put from blueprint into reality. Okay, stage is set, let's handle some real issues. Mr. Minister, that's trap. Don't those phrase sound familiar to your ears? People have been talking about that for quite some time since Belt and Road Initiative came into being. To you, a developing country, one of the really economies in Asia on the way up and yet still with some of the least developed economy basis. How do you see that? Are you gonna own money to everybody now? To Japan, United States, China, and maybe some of the other players too? Let me give you a picture of what is happening in Bangladesh for the last 10 years. The GDP growth, actually when our Prime Minister, Sheikh Asina took over on 2009, consistently the GDP growth has been growing to 6.5 to 7.6, okay. When she took over the power, the power connectivity was only 47% of the total populations. Now it's 93%. The total generation capacity of the power was only 3,500, now it's 24,000 megawatt about 2,000. Gender equality, we become champion in the Southeast Asia. Solar home system, we are number one in the world. 4.3 million houses now has got solar powers. See, a lot of changes. Bangladesh has become second largest exporter country in governments in the world. We produce freshwater fish, fourth largest in the world. Bangladesh is the seventh largest producing fresh vegetables in the world. So your point is? We are self-sufficient in food. 160 million people is one fourth of the size of Texas state. 700 rivers, 60% wetlands. Still you see about 4 million humans are working in Bangladesh, in government sector itself. So being such a scenario, actually it moves Bangladesh in a different way. Now we have a reserve of more than 35 billion dollar off foreign exchange in our country. It was less than one billion in 2009. And it's going go on actually. It's now the GDP is about 7.6. We are targeting that we have to go more than eight within the next couple of years. So that's not the problem over the debt trap. But what I understand, there are news in the media but there are initiatives have taken from BRI to a lot of countries. I heard, I saw in the news that a couple of countries which actually consider to be debt traps. But there can be a, you know that, there can be a bad news and good news are there. So somehow there are a lot of good projects that are there also with that initiatives. And somehow the BRI should somehow take care of the medias to bring the good initiatives in front. I see in a very positive pictures initiative of the BRI. But there are others who are also there. You can talk about action plans like what I was trying to mention. I'm taking some time if you don't mind. Like when Japan came up with the big investments, they came up with a master plan. How is that? They don't just give, putting up their money right away. They came up to do our power generation master plan. How the country will be on 2030 and 41. Then they start on initiating, taking our people, train them to know their culture gradually and they gradually start on putting their money, investing their money in the projects. What BRI is doing, BRI is coming up with a project itself with lack of little, lack of understanding about the project himself. I just mentioned it a little bit before to you. And also there are also, even in the G2G project also. So these are the side where BRI should look into it properly. They should make more harmony with the economics and the local politics, geopolitics and people together. It's not the money we want. It's not the investment only we want. If you want to remain in a country, you have to make some harmony with the country itself. Like Japan is trying to do. They have opened up their universities. They are taking our students to study there. China can do that. Do you have students who also study in China? Very few. China should open up their universities, morally for the, from among the students. From what I heard from you, Mr. Minister, do you still consider Belt and Road a China project or a multilateral project? I think that's one issue probably we need to really clarify here. There are a lot of countries projects are there. So I see there are investment from China. I see there are investment from Japan. There are investment from other countries like India and big ways. Now I want to see in one package together. The investment from international friends together. Great point. Mr. Song, would you like to respond even though you're a company executive not representing the Chinese government or any of your peers doing projects in Bangladesh, but would you like to respond to what Mr. Minister have been saying? The quality of the investment and the way of doing investment and working with the local people, the local culture. How have you and your company been trying to tackle those issues knowing that it has not been that long that Chinese companies have been going global and try to do your job in different parts of the world. Mr. Song. As for our company, we have three principles in making investment. First of all, we fully support the local economic construction and that is our major principle. So as we've just mentioned, the plans for local development, for local environment protections and we should know about all those issues for our investment. And secondly, during the investment process, we are cooperating with the local companies, local enterprises, because we need to also offer benefits to them. We should closely work together. And if something can be done by our local partners, we will give those opportunities to them. And thirdly, we are working for the benefit of local people. For example, as for our company, we have also established some schools and donate to some hospitals and also some community services to the local people in the BRI countries. And we hope to improve the livelihood of local people so that people will welcome the China company to make the investment. And also as for the debt traps we've just mentioned, and actually we have already gone through six years for the Belt and Road Initiative. And for now we have been working on some infrastructure constructions and some power plant constructions and those basic things because they are the fundamentals in BRI. And we know those countries would also follow what China has gone through, the organization and industrialization. And the foundation of them would be infrastructure. So frankly speaking, for the infrastructure construction in those countries, they will need the bank loans from China. But to follow the countries with BRI initiative, they are shifting to organization. And this is a process that will attract more and more foreign currency reserves. And the debt for the earlier stage infrastructure construction could be payback with its local economic development. And this is exactly what China did because in the beginning of the opening up and the reform of China, we also got financing from Japan for the major infrastructure construction and we have already paid back the loans. So this is the process and we don't need to put the financing in this process as a debt trap. And this is just not the case. And as for us, for our company, previous years we have engaged in many factory constructions. And for example, we had 360 cement factories in those countries because cement is a necessary part for those infrastructure construction. And that is why we hugely invested in this part. And for now, what we have been doing is that like a building material supermarket, building material supermarket and some processing factories and so on. So this is more like towards the industrial part and some project to serve the society. So you can see the gradual change of our directions. And for example, in Ethiopia, they hope that we can help them to have some manufacturing project that will bring them with more foreign currencies. And just like what the minister said previously, in Bangladesh they only have one billion reserved but currently they have 35 billion. So this is also like what we have gone through in China. We do need the financing in the early stage but with your economic development, you can pay them back. Mr. Song, because not every country that Belt and Road Initiative has been working on is like a country like Bangladesh, which is on the way up and also becoming very promising as a result of international cooperation. There might be problems for some of the countries come up with enough US dollar, for example, for their payment if they are doing a project with China or with others on the Belt and Road Initiative. So to Chinese companies, how do you handle this issue? What I'm trying to say is that some of the other countries along the Belt and Road Initiative, if their economic situation is not so effective, so they will not have enough US dollars for the settlement. So how do you tackle this situation? And will there also be the debt traps? Well, this is also the situation that we have already encountered because for some of the countries they don't have enough foreign reserves and they will have some problems for the payment. So we're trying to work on it. For example, we will increase the loan volume so that they will have enough room for it and secondly, we will help them to improve their industrial development so that they can get more foreign reserves to themselves. And another thing is about using RMB as for a settlement. So all in all, I think this is only one of the problems in the Belt and Road Initiative, but this should not be the barrier that is stopping us to go forward. We need to find solutions for specific problems and then to carry on in general. So we need to tackle specific problems case by case. Encounter problems, try to find the solutions, not wait for the solutions to come. But let me go to you, Madam Undersecretary General, you've been talking about environmental issues, extremely important. Even from a China's perspective, it seems as a largest emerging economy, the country has been going through quite some challenges about environmental protection. So from your perspective, Madam Undersecretary, how those issues be addressed on time and properly? Don't understand me wrongly, I don't want to restrict myself just on environmental issues because what we are working on- Green Belt and Road. Yeah, for instance, but UNEC's typical standards, norms, regulations, guidelines, setting body since 72 years. If we speak about infrastructure, we speak about connectivity, for instance, we identified nine European Asian transport links, nine in rail, nine in road transport, and we work on removing the non-physical barriers. We, for instance, also develop standards for public-private partnerships, maybe partially respond to your question, how to get the money, because without the private sector, Agenda 2030 and 17 SDGs wouldn't be possible. So we have standards on public-private partnerships. For instance, one of the standards is zero tolerance to corruption. And China is very much interested in our standards and norms and regulations. Just this morning, I had a bilateral meeting with a state-owned railway company who are interested to work with us on the norms, but just in one hour, we cannot cover all that. So let me speak really about greening the Belt and Road and about what we can offer on environmentally sustainable Belt and Road cooperation. I was two months ago in Beijing on Second Belt and Road Forum and Mr. President of China expressed his commitment to greening the Belt and Road. But we are very happy to hear and we are really offering in environmental area, we have five environmental conventions and eight additional protocols to them. And one of them, just to give a good example, is so-called ESPO Convention. It is on transboundary effects of any infrastructure projects that can influence our neighbors. So we have 32 parties to the convention in our region. And it means if any infrastructure project is built on close to the border of the neighbor, the parties are supposed, they should consult, they should inform each other. And specifically, there is a protocol on strategic environmental assessment that goes even further in the earlier phase of the project still when the ministries are preparing their sectoral programs on construction. They need to inform and consult with the neighbors because we know environment has no borders. And this is free to any member states to access to this protocol on strategic environmental assessment also to China. So speaking about Belt and Road, it would be very, very useful if we really assess strategically our projects, our infrastructure projects, how they can influence the neighboring states and how they need to work together just for the benefit of people living in all countries that are on the Belt and Road. This is how- I have to come back to Mr. Minister before I go to you, sir, a bit later. Mr. Minister, are those consultations being done? Are you aware of the standards, for example, Under Secretary General had been proposing or other standard because there are many other different ways and systems of looking at things. Are you, as countries being invested in, also being proactive in talking to your partners about what is the best way to make it a Green Belt and Road initiative and also about others cooperation with Japan, with the United States, for example? To answering your previous question, I mentioned that there should be some plan before you invest to a single country like that. Like I told about Japan, what they have done. They have done our master plan. They've done the make-up to train our people. I understand that part. The question really is- Even BRI wanted to initiate the green energy in Bangladesh. They have started some few projects investing in Bangladesh. But overall, if they wanted to put up a big steps there, they must have some long-term plan should be there. And it's very much welcome. My question to you, rather, Mr. Minister, is whether countries being invested in are also aware of those standards. And you are being proactive in a way, from your interest perspective, be able to approach this player and say, these are the things that we want to make sure it's gonna be beneficial for our countries. Absolutely. We want renewable energy very much in our country. And we have already, already actually different countries are already, mostly the European countries are shown interest in the wind. But we don't have much of wind there. But still, we have a lot of sun. So they are keen to invest in the, you know, solar and other renewable energies. And we kept about more than 10% that will generate power from the renewable energy. And we're doing that. Okay. Thank you, sir. Specific issues are always important. But visionary issues are also very important these days, especially when we're experiencing dramatic changes these days, as they say in our world. Therefore, Sir Mckash, what about that Eurasian vision that you've been putting into your books and you've been telling your friends about the Belt and Road Initiative potential? How much really is there? Or is it too far away a picture for us? Well, let me ask the audience. What do you think is the main axis of global trade today? Do you think it's transatlantic between the United States and Europe, trans-Pacific or Eurasian between Europe and Asia? And the answer, predictably, is that it is the Eurasian axis. Many years, it's three times the volume of transatlantic trade. So we still need to adapt our language and our thinking to the economic material reality. Well, wait, wait. You cannot answer for our audience. So maybe we should have a survey right here. What is the first option? What is the second option? Let's just have the ladies and gentlemen sitting over here have a vote here. What is the first option you say? Well, you know, but the answer, this doesn't depend on what people think. There's the figures, but... Well, it's important that what people think here. It's a democracy in the room. So let's have a vote here. So what is the first option if you can? What do you think is the most important axis or relation in the world economy? Transatlantic between Europe and the United States, trans-Pacific between the United States and Asia, or Eurasian between Europe and Asia? Okay, so three options. Transatlantic, trans-Pacific, Eurasian, okay? First up, you cannot raise your hand three times, okay? Or can they? Well, they can because, you know, there are different ways to answer the question. Let's do that. You can raise your hand many times as much as possible. So let's do this. Transatlantic, anybody? What? Only one? Transatlantic? Because they trust me when I said it isn't. Okay, all right, all right. And then let's go trans-Pacific. Trans-Pacific. Well, I think about half almost, right? If I, yeah. Okay, and now Eurasian. Also about half as well. What's going on with transatlantic? Well, you know, I think the main reason why Eurasian, and trans-Pacific is a bit less than Eurasian, but more than trans-Atlantic, I think the main reason is that the complementarity across Eurasia is enormous. You have regions that produce natural commodities. You have regions that are developing. You have regions that are fully developed, like Europe and parts of China. And so all these economies fit very well together. Whereas the United States and Europe that we talk about all the time is the main economic relationship in the world. In fact, there's very little complementarity. We've specialized in roughly the same things and we're becoming competitors more and more. We'll see whether there won't be a new wave of tariffs this time, not against China, but against Europe and German automakers, which I predict will happen pretty soon. So clearly the future of the world economy is in these Eurasian relations that are developing. And I was very interested to hear Minister Hamid speak about how it's not only the Belt and Road, it's Japan, it's the relations with India. So there's a whole world that is developing with new relations becoming increasingly more central than the old ones that we're used to. And given the fact now, half of the EU members, EU member economies, have already been working on certain forms on the Belt and Road Initiative. What does that mean in a way? Because a lot of people here might not know. Some have been working on third-party development, for example, the Netherlands, Switzerland, even England, the United Kingdom, if they remain in the European Union. And there are others who also sign on different formats of cooperation along the Belt and Road Initiative. So what does that mean, Mr. Markech? I think it's very important. It's a new phase in the Belt and Road. Until now, the first five years, we used to think of the Belt and Road as being focused on developing countries. And I think the moment Italy joined, a G7 country and a NATO member, it changes the nature of the Belt and Road. And then I think Switzerland, let me mention Switzerland since it's the forum's home country, the Switzerland memorandum was very important for a number of reasons. First of all, transparency. The memorandum was published the night it was signed. And China didn't have objections. Switzerland pushed for it and China didn't have objections. So other countries should do the same, just publish the memorandum quickly. And then the idea that China and Switzerland will work in third countries is also very important. So that's a different model. This is not about Chinese investment in Switzerland. Switzerland has enough capital, probably too much capital. And it's about partnering together and investing in third country. So we're seeing this topic of the panel is the future of the Belt and Road is starting and in some respects, what happened with Italy and Switzerland shows the future. Not European countries alone, but also maybe Japan and some of the other developed economies also about third party cooperation, third party market development as well. Mr. Song, maybe I need to let you to come into the conversation about that too. Because people, some are still at the, thinking about Belt and Road, they're still at the very initial stage of Belt and Road. But now as the other guests have clearly outlined, this is already moving to the next stage. We need to really catch up with really what's going on on the ground. What do you make of this stage of development with the vision that Mr. Marquesh outlined? Of course, you don't have to agree with him. That's his personal academic vision. What do you make of this current stage of development when it comes to Belt and Road? Please, sir. Firstly, BRI has been undergoing six years, and it's not very long, but it's very short. Actually, six years has been very long, in my opinion. Before the six years along the BRI countries, we did lots of things in these countries. But in these six years, we just accelerated the pace in these countries. In the initial stage, we started with infrastructure. But if you go and visit I, now quite often visit the BRI countries, and the development has been very quick, very rapid. Some industrial parks has enjoyed very large sizes, large sizes of industrial parks, including Bangladesh. And also, if you visit supermarkets in Europe, you'll find lots of apparel from Bangladesh. So their processing industry has been developing very quickly. Urban development has been developing very quickly. So I think BRI, besides infrastructure investments, we should continue. For Chinese companies, they should also look into the next stage. That is, in the industrialization processes of these countries, what kind of opportunities do we have, because we experienced the same pathway. And so we have lots of experience, because BRI are going along the same pathway, and so we are a good fit. Lots of Chinese industries are good fits of the BRI countries. What we are doing today, they are going to do them tomorrow. And also, our capacity, our management and technology, can be applied in these countries. I don't mean obsolete capacity. In BRI countries, we are introducing the most advanced capacity. No company would introduce obsolete capacity to these countries. So we only introduce most advanced technology and capacity. That's our way of thinking. As to the next stage, you mentioned the environment, the greening. And in media, I think there are some misunderstandings about Chinese companies. For Chinese companies, when it comes to environment, Chinese government attaches importance, and Chinese companies attach importance to the environment. And if you visit BRI countries, firstly, we give overall emphasis on environment in developing the Sino-Barros industrial park in Barros. Xi Jinping gave personal instructions that every single tree should be protected. Therefore, in the BRI countries, whether it's a construction or industrial parks, we attach importance to environment, to production and safety, quality, technology costs. But environment is given the first priority. And in the BRI countries, their environment is very important to the future of mankind. Chinese companies know this very well. Therefore, for our next steps, we will emphasize the environment. And also, it was mentioned that BRI countries, not only development countries, but also medium income countries, Italy, you mentioned, Bulgaria, and Argentina, Brazil. And these countries' involvement or participation, they need infrastructure. They need to further develop their economies. And we also pay close attention to their needs. So regarding the core of BRI, two things. One is we are improving the standards of BRI projects. Secondly, the scale is rising up and skating up. More and more countries are accepting BRI. And more countries like to participate in BRI. It's going to develop further. In different parts of the world. I guess it's good for your company. And it is a trend, as you said. We're at a different stage. Madam Under Secretary General, I also want you to come in further on the topic. What Mr. Mckash said is not just the concrete specific points, but rather when these points are linked up, what it could mean. Now, that could be very important. When we are working on the daily issues, we should really also look further. To you, what does it mean? When those dots are connected together, whether it's geography or way of doing things, what could that mean? Oh, if we speak specifically on environment, we need to speak about climate change. And the climate change, unfortunately, is progressing faster than humanity is able to act if we connect the dots on daily environmental activities. Minister from Bangladesh mentioned renewable sources of energy, water. But again, each project has transboundary effects. We don't have boundaries. We have, for instance, our air convention. It's about decreasing the limits on harmful emissions of harmful substances. And by this convention, implementing it in our region, the scientists proved that we were able to prolong life expectancy in European continent by one year, by 12 months. So we all need to act together. Speaking on climate change, a few days ago, there was a preparatory meeting in Abu Dhabi on the climate summit that Secretary General Antonio Guterres is organizing end of September in New York. And we have the tools. We have standards, norms, guidelines. I mentioned protocol and strategic environmental assessment. So let us strategically assess what we are doing, because it's a very complicated protocol. And if the country wants to implement it, and is exactly speaking about bigger areas, transboundary effects, so let us connect the dots and think about the future generations if we speak about the greening, the belt and road. Mr. Minister, about the bigger vision also to you. We see so many different kinds of a regional cooperation. Belt and road could be termed as regional, could also be termed as transnational. So what do you think, when you connect the dots together, what kind of bigger vision that you are having in mind when you see the latest development and the latest stage? You see the BRI for the future, the young people will carry on. So somehow we must have some plan to develop our young people. So technology transfer can be one way to develop these young people. Like China, not only putting up projects there for infrastructure, also they can come up with transferring the technology. They can open up R&Ds, like Huawei can open up their R&D in Bangladesh, they can come up. Encouraging the youngs. They can, like what I see, we have huge projects. We have more than 100 of thousands now Chinese workers are working there in Bangladesh recently. And other countries are workers are also there. We have a projects from Russia, like nuclear power plant, they're building up a new power plant. We have got thousands of Russians are working there. So what I see that, there is quite a cultural gap is going on. So I wanted to see a cultural globalization in the country itself. Like why not actually? Why not 100 of 1000 Bangladeshi can speak Chinese? Why not 100 of 1000 Chinese people can speak Bangladeshi? It should be there. So I see globalization through BRI. I wanted to see in the future. It's not like one projects you just finance and come back. And it will not initiative what the China government has taken for the long term. It will not work if you don't connect with everything actually together. And I'm afraid it's not just the government because a lot of Chinese private enterprises, Mr. Song, if I understand right, are also investing and working on the Belt and Road Initiative. Sometime even in competition with you. Mr. Song. You're talking about the private companies from China? Yes. Actually SOEs and the private companies in BRI, we are whole. We form the same value chain. And for us, we usually engage in big projects and they engage in small projects. So we are supplementary. So we are just like one core. And we are linked together. And there is no clear boundary between us. And when we go to a particular country, we even eat the same meal together. There's no clear division between private company or SOEs. It's just people's imagination. And Mr. Minister mentioned that in BRI countries. And nowadays, we are supporting these countries in technology transfer. Many Chinese technologies are needed by these BRI countries. Just like what's happened between China and Western countries, now we are doing the same technology transfer to the BRI countries. Also, we are training their staff members, workers. And among our companies, we invite them over to train them in our Chinese companies. So we have done a lot of this. And also, we train workers locally in these respective countries. And also, some BRI countries, they don't have very good standards or labs, laboratories, and therefore, we are setting up joint laboratories, 10 joint laboratories to set up their national standards and so on. And therefore, in BRI, we want to enhance their technology standards and managerial standards of these countries only by this way, we can achieve prosperity for BRI. And then we can enjoy more opportunities. So-called Marshall Plan with the Belt and Road Initiative. Of course, these are very different. But even you look at the amount of financial resources being put into this so far, already 10 times more. However, they are very different in nature. And it seems to be a choice that people made today rather than when they were right after the Second World War. But now, geopolitics change it once again. So people have questions about Belt and Road as a result of this geopolitics change, which is happening after the Belt and Road Initiative was brought up. So what do you make of that? And what does that say about the bigger picture you've been emphasizing once and again? Well, I almost feel tempted to ask the audience again. And the question would be, do you think we are in a new Cold War? Let me tell you that my answer- Can we do it for another session? I'm kidding. Well, to this one, there isn't any fixed answer. You may have different opinions. I don't think we are. And I think the results from the meeting at the G20 show that. We are in a very competitive time. But it's competition with integration. I don't see any attempt to decouple, really. What I see is an attempt to control the value change, to occupy the highest position in the value change. But that's a game that will go on for a long time. And it's a game that all the major players will have to play. But it is not war. And it's not Cold War. We continue to see integrated value chains. But I think different actors are no longer naive. They know that within the value chain, there are positions that are more dominant than others. If you control the crucial technology in the value chain, then you can organize the value chain. And we see the United States and China, in particular, on the case of 5G, trying to occupy the dominant places within the value chain. This is the world as I see it. But of course, we're still at the early stages. It's been one year of this new world of trade wars or trade disputes. I think even in China, the first six months, we were supposed to talk about trade disputes, and now it is a trade war. So we're all adapting to a very new world. Interesting. We'll see how people see all of these issues being portrayed and outlined, framed in an ever-changing landscape. But for now, we have a limited time, five minutes. The audience have much smarter questions than the one that I just proposed earlier. So feel free to raise your hand. Can we pass the microphone, please? We collect the questions, and we let the audience do the panelists to answer questions so it will be faster. Anyone? Any question? This gentleman. OK. Any others? Raise your hand so I can see. OK. Over there. OK. Please, first. Hi. So my name is Samson, and I'm representing the Global Shapers Community from Macra, Ghana. I have a question to Mr. Son's Jim Payne. And my question is very simple. We've benefited, Ghana as a country has benefited a lot from the Belt and Road Initiative. But we've also seen a few small and medium enterprises also cause some harm to our environment. How does the Chinese government ensure that though we also try to retain license or retrieve license from these companies that come to mind, how does the government also ensure that they are held responsible for their activities in these areas? Thank you, sir. About the environment, let's go to that lady also. She has a question. I have a question for Marques, Mr. Marques, pertaining to local labor. Despite what Mr. Song has said about them training local labor, what's the data points? What's the reality there? Is it just perception that actually when this Chinese capital are going to build infrastructures, they're also bringing along even manual labor displacing local labor? Do you think you will have the data about that? About labor? OK, well, Mr. Marques, you better have. Later, later, a bit later. Let's collect all the questions. Lady, please. Slow down. Watch your step. That lady and this lady, this first, please. Sorry for my voice. I'm Frazana Choudhary from Bangladesh. I have a question to Mr. Song. You have heard from our honorable state minister regarding the Bangladesh experience, Bangladesh achievements by joining the BRI. So do you think that in the long run, what he has mentioned, the long-term vision of Bangladesh, do you think it will get more FDIs from China in Bangladesh having the great experience from BRI like what he has mentioned, the cultural globalization, bringing in more young people in China and getting more culturally, technically, I would say, knowledgeable, and then transfer this knowledge in Bangladesh? You mean integration, right? Is that what you're saying? OK, thank you. And this lady first. This lady, go ahead. Thank you. Any others? OK. Isabel Hilton, China's had huge development success in the countries of the Belt and Road also made development. China's development model in the first decade of this century doubled China's carbon emissions. So my question is, when you look at the Belt and Road, how would you adapt the China model for the Belt and Road host countries? Because if they follow the China model as laid out now, we have no chance of... OK. Environmental issues before, now, right? OK, I think we collect almost every question. So I think there is one issue about cultural integration, and a lot of questions about environmental issues, Green Belt and Road, which you mentioned. So why don't I have, and also one about labor issue? So why don't I have the three of you briefly answer the question? Mr. Song, how about you? There are a lot of questions. So Mr. Song first, many questions were directed to you about environmental protection. About China's model could be suitable for the BRI countries, and how should we deal with environmental issues in our cooperation? And try to be brief, time is up. Regarding environmental issues, you may notice that Chinese government's environmental policies, we introduce new policies, and in BRI, we also want to emphasize the environment so we pay special attention to it. In Bangladesh, you mentioned some SMEs. In Ghana, they have some companies' emission problems, and we notice that we are guiding our companies to take environment as the first priority so that in the long term, we can make a successful BRI. For me, this is very clear. And I've set up lots of glass factories and cement factories. If you go visit, they are up to the European standard. They are world-class as to training specific data. Let me take the example of Ethiopia. In Ethiopia, I set up nine cement plants. I trained over 10,000 staff members to manage the modern cement plants. These are our company's example. In the early stages of development, we did have a higher carbon footprint, but in more recent years, we have been shifting our focus and also revamping our development model so that we can have a stronger awareness of the environmental footprint of our projects. If you look at the development pathway of the UK and the US, they also went through a similar process. We all know the London smog problem in the old days and also in the regions such as San Francisco. The Seagulf was once heavily polluted. So a lot of the countries experienced very similar problems over the course of the development. And this is only natural for China to go through a similar process. But this is pitfall we want to avoid when we implement BRI. I'm very happy that we raised environmental issues. It was my intention. This is why I spoke. So I just want to stress out. We have the tools available how to green the Belt and Road. Indeed, the Chinese government drafted a document called Guidance on Promoting the Green Belt and Road. So we work together, but we are too late. It's five minutes after midnight on environmental issues on climate change. We need to act very fast. Our standards and norms and products are free available for any country. This is a public UN goods. And my last word, if we were able to link Belt and Road initiative with Agenda 2030, I believe we are fine. Right. And I'm afraid we also have to remind our audience. It is not just the Belt and Road countries that need to work on the standards and improve the environment. Also work on the climate change issue. But also many that are not on this initiative actually should also work on that just to be fair. I fully agree. Agenda 2030 was signed by 193 UN member states. It means it's a global agenda and the best that we have available. Thank you, ma'am. And last but not least, Mr. McKess. Those figures are not available. I've looked for them. I didn't find them. We would need every company to provide Chinese authorities with the figures they had to be collected. I can tell you in my experience traveling in Belt and Road countries, which I do all the time, usually when a project is being built, it's predominantly Chinese labor force. But when a project is already working, a factory or a port in Djibouti, it's predominantly local labor force. So that's a truth to both stories. We are running out of time. It's a very packed discussion. A lot of information to digest. Shall we, the audience, give the round of applause for our panelists. Thank you for their contribution and insights. And thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, for your input. Thank you. I really appreciate it.