 Hello and let's talk about the state of women's football in India. India has been named the host of the Asian Women's Cup in football, which is scheduled to be held in 2022. Now, this news was greeted with a lot of joy by the footballing community. The All India Football Federation president Praful Patel said that it would, and I quote, galvanize the aspiring women players and bring in a holistic social revolution as far as women's football in the country is concerned. Very impressive words. But what exactly is the state of women's football in the country? Does hosting an event automatically mean that we may be able to take things to the next level in the sport? We talked to Leslie Xavier of the NewsClick Sports Desk to find out. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us. So the women's football Asian tournament is going to be held in India in 2022. India successfully won the bid. That is, if the tournament takes place, we don't know considering the given circumstances. But keeping COVID-19 and its uncertainties aside, do you think that bringing the tournament to India will actually revolutionize the sport because that's a kind of claim that both authorities, some players have been making that this is a landmark moment? So is it actually how it's likely to pan out on the ground? So whenever we bid for a major tournament, that's the premise that the entire mechanism works around that this is going to drastically change the way sport is going to be played in the country. So that's the same claim that was there when we bid and hosted the 2010 Commonwealth Games. And we know the legacy of the structure that were erected and all that. So for the Delhi Metro, I guess, nothing is in proper use. So getting into specifically the women's game, women's football in the country. And we also have another major event that is happening before the 2022 Asian Cup. That is the Under 17 Women's World Cup, which was supposed to be hosted this year. In November, it was postponed because of coronavirus outbreak. And it will now be held in February, March next year. So fingers crossed on that because it's not just about things settling down. As far as the disease is concerned, it's also about the logistics involved. It's also about the kind of money that the stakeholders would be able to pump into the tournament. Anyways, when we bid for that World Cup a few years back, we never had anything as far as the women's game is concerned in the country. There was no glass crew system in place. And the reasoning that was given by the All India Football Federation was that with this tournament, there will be things set up. Since it's a age group tournament, young girls would be caught in the catchment and a network would be established so that more young girls can come into the game. They can come up through the systems that would be set up subsequently. And we will have a very strong base for women's football in the country. But nothing has happened. In fact, the Under 17 team was formed as late as last year only. And that too, after a very appassedly conducted selection process across the country. There was no proper... See, when you identify footballers and nurture them for the World Cup, we need not just one tournament or two tournaments to select players. We need to have a closer look at all the talents that are available across the country. And since there's... In a country like India where there is no system at all for the women's game, it becomes that much paramount that scouts go around so that even locally, you might find a talent who happen to play really well but not in the system or not in eco-leagiate or education. That's where women's game mostly happens. Girls' game mostly happens in schools and colleges. And beyond that, it dies down. So we beat for the World Cup, we beat for the Asian Cup with no system in place for the women to play even. So this is not just the case for the age group girls but also for the senior women. Indian women's, Indian national women's team hardly play. They played as a team last in the South Games, which was last year. They won, obviously, South Asia, we are strong. And in the 2002 Asian Cup, we wouldn't have qualified if we were not hosting. So since 2003, we haven't qualified for the Asian Cup. That shows where we stand as far as women's game is concerned. We do have talented players. For instance, Baladevi is playing in Glasgow right now. Yes, she assigned for Glasgow. Unfortunately, soon after she shifted, the lockdowns happened. So she hasn't been able to play as much but she has been training there. And so obviously there is talent in the national team setup despite the system not helping, but they hardly get to play. And so in such a scenario, we glorify getting a chance to host a championship where we technically, if you look at it, we don't deserve to be there because quality wise we are not there yet. So where should the focus be? Is it to host a tournament and then after that forget everything or use all those resources and the mobilization that happens that it's an enormous logistical process. So why don't use that kind of a process to set things up right before aiming big and before bringing a grand tournament into the country. Also could you talk a bit about the domestic scenario as far as women's football is concerned in terms of the possibilities of leagues, tournaments and like that. There is a national league which was started three years back. They call it a league but it's a glorified tournament because it just happens for three weeks, that's the duration. And height of summer, for instance last year's tournament happened in Jalandhar in May. If I'm not mistaken, yeah, it was in May. And so imagine North India in May and this woman playing football and that to the fixtures because there was no floodlights available for them. The fixtures were held post noon like three o'clock and all that. So that's the kind of treatment that is. And so we have a highly publicized men's league, the Indian Super League. None of the teams field a women's team. So now there is directives from the AFF that all these ISL clubs also should start a subsidiary women's team. Just like across Europe everywhere, most of the clubs have their women's side and they also have women's league to play for. So they don't have any women's programs as such and even in a state like Kerala, for instance, where it's known for producing a lot of women athletes, there is very little system for football. It's changing now Gokulam Kerala, the ILEA club, they have a women's team. In fact, they are the champions. They are the champions last time the women's league was held. But in that championship winning team, I don't think, if I'm not mistaken, except the manager and one player, everyone else was out of the state. So we have pockets, we have players coming up from the Northeast, we have some players from Goa, two good players from Delhi, the institutional system here that brings out few players. Beyond that, nothing. So that's the kind of system, that domestic system that India has and it's very clear that a tournament which lasts for three weeks is not enough for anyone to develop themselves and taking into account also that in the national team setup, there is no games as such, there is no camps as such. When a tournament comes before that, if at all possible the camp is held, otherwise it doesn't happen. We never, we didn't field a team for the Asian games last and there was a lot of controversy around that because the Indian Olympic Association said that you guys are not ranked high enough so we are not sending you. And then they left it at the All India Football Federation saying that if you want to send the teams, both the men's and the women's, if you want to send the teams, you can send it, but we won't fund you, you find money from your own pocket and AFF decided not to send. And it's absurd to think that the National Federation of Football which hosts such major leagues and competitions and which has a support from Reliance IMG to not have money to send a bunch of players to Jakarta to play football. So that's more or less the domestic and the national structure as such. And at this point again, just to highlight what exactly the situation is, I would like to point out a specific instance of the under 17 women's since we started a conversation with the women's World Cup under 17. So the camp was disbanded around the time the lockdowns began because it was clear that the tournament would also be postponed and the girls were sent back to their hometown so two girls from Jakarta specifically the story came out so they went back and obviously they belong to, I mean they belong to an economically backward family so they were struggling to eat even and news came out in local media there and one of our reporters Viva Bregunandini contacted the Jakarta Football Association to understand what exactly the situation is and one of the official from there he spoke to that's the level of absurdity comes here now that he didn't know the addresses of the girls so they were unable to help them so we are talking about not a district level I mean even a state level player as such we are talking about two girls who were supposed to play the World Cup at the end of this year and they would hopefully play the World Cup next year when it's hosted so national team players national team World Cup team players so so then their intervention happened because Hemant Saran was a portfolio for the state so he came to know about it he directed the officials to make sure that these two players whatever their needs are it's met was that the All India Football Federation came forward with their new Santiago mechanism working on Overdrive saying that we are going to meet the dietary requirements of our under 17 campers for the next two months till lockdown so it came after things were taken care of so that's how ad hoc and that's how reactionary things work in the country and hosting major tournaments that's not exactly the answer that we are looking at as far as development of the game is concerned on both friends Ben's game as well as the women's game Thank you so much Leslie for talking to us in this segment we bring you part of a conversation between journalist Paranjay Guhatakurta and Ashok Mukherjee who is India's former permanent representative to the United Nations in New York they talk about the role of cyberspace governance which is especially relevant at this time when so much of our activity and even day to day life has moved online here's what they had to say more and more people have become dependent on the internet because they've been locked down inside their homes at another level what we see that the hope that the internet had held out some decades ago 20 years ago 30 years ago of being this great democratizing force it would provide information education knowledge perhaps even wisdom it would empower ordinary people but we've come to see the internet being dominated by a few giant global conglomerates who seem to determine what you watch what you hear what you hear what you watch what you see and what you hear why at this juncture post covid is there a need for an international convention on cyberspace well Paranjay first of all thank you for having me on your program I have tried in this article that you mentioned to put a proposal in the public domain on an international convention for cyberspace basically because of one reason and that is that while the cyberspace includes the internet has become more visible especially after the pandemic of covid 19 the fact remains that our approach to how this space is being used is very fragmented in the realm of governments the dominating theme is cyber security because it's the responsibility of governments to provide security including in cyberspace and yet instead of successfully moving towards international cooperation to ensure cyber security governments are caught up in polarizing sometimes bruising discussion on issues such as who is a threat to cyber security and how do you respond to such a threat to cyber security when we look at other players in cyberspace as you mentioned the biggest players are major multinational corporations these corporations have actually grown in the last 15 years because of the tremendous progress and strides made by technology and what we today take for granted in the form of smartphones for example was not even conceptualized in 1997 when we agreed to introduce smartphones into our markets so the strides in technology are also development and a phenomenon which are today very potentially unknown we are hearing for example of artificial intelligence and the use of artificial intelligence in cyberspace so how is this technology going to be harnessed for fulfilling the people centric potential of cyberspace is an issue which I think needs to be addressed and then of course there are two other players I would call them in cyberspace one is academia and the other civil society and as far as academia is concerned they have focused on conceptualizing how cyberspace can develop how it can grow but one area where academia has unfortunately not yet been empowered is in providing what we used to call in our education primary and university education as the value based framework we all studied civic science or social sciences etc but there is as far as I know in no country in the world is cyberspace being taught from primary school onwards and when we talk about the use of education I think there are two very important areas where this has to happen in a more coherent manner one is in the substance of cyberspace which includes issues like cyber security how to take care of yourself when you for the first time put your finger to the keyboard but as important is the values and ethics of cyberspace which actually should be brought into a curriculum for children when they start using this technology and today's children use this technology very early and of course the fourth layer is civil society and I think there is a very big role for civil society in cyberspace it has been played in some countries especially in Europe and sometimes in the United States and that role is to ensure that fundamental human rights and freedoms are secured in cyberspace are upheld in cyberspace now for example when we talk of the concerns of civil society in India very little of the discussions that for example went into the Justice Sri Krishna committee have even been reflected internationally so as far as the international community is concerned they are quite sort of they have not yet got the full contribution that Indian civil society can make not only to the Indian discussions but also to the global discussion and I come back to it because cyberspace is a global domain there is no way in which we can put it as the national jurisdiction. That's all we have in this episode of Let's Talk we will be back tomorrow with the latest news developments of the day and till then keep watching News Click