 The panel is a keynote conversation led by or moderated by Candace Rondo who has been a part of the Future Security Initiative for many years. She's Senior Director of Future Frontlines and Planetary Politics here at New America and she's a professor of practice in the Future Security Initiative at Arizona State University. She'll be speaking with Ambassador Oksana Markova of Ukraine. Thank you. Well, Ambassador, thank you and welcome to New America. This is your first time. Yes. So I'm here physically. That's right. Virtually, we've had many moments, but also you and I have had a few moments here and there so I'm excited for this conversation. I wanted to introduce you, if you don't mind, to our audience here at New America and online. For those of you who don't know her, I would say that over the last two years, two-and-a-half years really since her appointment as Ukraine's ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markova has been one of the most active and energetic diplomats on the circuit in Washington, D.C. and I really count myself as very lucky to have been able to sat across the table from you on many occasions to talk about the future of Ukraine, how to respond to this war of aggression that Russia is waging against your country. I've met a lot of diplomats in my time and I have to say very few have impressed me as much as you in large part because not only do you work tirelessly for Ukraine's interest, but you really are working one of the toughest towns in the world to be a diplomat. I don't envy anybody coming into Washington for the first time trying to figure out how it works because we all struggle. Those of us who live here struggle with it, but you have really mastered the arcane art of navigating the State Department, the Pentagon, the White House. I have seen you throw out a first pitch at the National Stadium and now you've got a pretty good arm, I'd say. Actually, pretty impressive. I was trying not to embarrass my son. Well, you did well. You did well. But prior to your time here, you were also at the Ministry of Finance from 2015 to 2020. First Deputy Minister and Government Commissioner on Investments. And then since 2018 as Minister of Finance, you know about money, apparently. And you have degrees in Environmental Science from the Kyiv-Mohila Academy in Ukraine, an MPA, sorry, in Public Finance from Indiana University, Korn Huskis, let's go. And you also have a head for numbers. I have seen that also at work in some of our conversations and science. And I think you know a lot about what it takes to run a business, having spent 17 years in the private equity field. So I think you also have a sense of what's going to happen next in terms of reconstruction. And we're going to talk a little bit about that today. So again, thank you for coming. Thanks for making the time. Our time is unfortunately limited. I'd love to stay up here all day. But I want to start out with, I think, one of the big challenges that's probably on everybody's mind here. Ukraine is fighting a war. The defense alone must cost, who knows how many billions, right? But we also know that there is just a huge reconstruction need ongoing and in the future. And I think one of the biggest questions most recently has been around the need for reconstruction in the area of grain exports and production and where we're going to go next with that. So I want to just ask you sort of what is your impression of what happened with the Black Sea grain initiative in terms of its impact on Ukraine's export capacity? And so what's Ukraine's perspective on how to bring that back together or move forward? Thank you. Thank you, Candice. And thank you for having me. It's a great pleasure to be here and to be able to have this discussion. And thank you for keeping on the agenda. Something that is not only important for us in Ukraine, but actually has a global meaning. And the result of this war and hopefully the victory of Ukraine soon in this war is going to be a prerequisite of all of us, all countries that have the same values, but also countries that want to deliver better to their citizens to restore as soon as possible the supply chains to address the food security needs, energy security needs. And I think food security and in general the agricultural issues that you just mentioned are key issues. First, the key issues for Ukraine. Ukraine has been a very heavily agricultural country. And when I say agricultural, it's not just growing, but it's food processing. It's all the value chain. We own 30% of the global black soil, the best type of soil for the growth. And actually the productivity gain that could happen in that field is huge. This is something that before the full-fledged war started, we wanted to develop as one of the key advantages of Ukraine. We are top five exporters of the majority of crops from wheat to barley. We're number one, used to be number one in sunflower oil. We are very high on honey. So we can feed the world. And once called the breadbasket of Europe, we can definitely be a global breadbasket. Now Russia specifically, in addition to the aggressive war, in addition to their war crimes, horrific war crimes against civilians, women, children, in addition to just having this unjust war, they specifically target the food. So they destroy the grain storages, they destroy the port facilities, they block the black sea. The only reason Ukraine is not able to deliver the food, which we grow for so many regions, especially for Middle Eastern Asia, especially for African countries. We cannot do it simply because of the Russian actions. Now with the help of UN and Turkey, for some time, they were able to broker this grain initiative, which Russia agreed, but then sabotaged, of course, every month. They were trying to delay the ship inspections. They were trying to scare the ship companies. So it wasn't going perfect, even when it was there. But Ukraine always stick to what we wanted to do, to get the grain, to get everything out so that we can end. In addition to just selling it, we even donated. We have this program called Grain from Ukraine, where we donated grain and other countries, US through the USAID actually helped to pay for the shipments so that we can donate it to countries in need. So right now we are in a situation when Russia decided to stop it and block it. They're trying to create or put out all kinds of unreasonable additional demands. We are ready to continue, of course, but it looks like Russians really would like to weaponize the food again. Now we're trying to export as much as we can through the land borders using other ports. That's why you see during the past weeks increased attacks on Odessa, Odessa region, closer to the Romanian border. That's they're trying to prevent any type of shipment of the food, which will affect not only the shipment of what we have in the storages, but also the harvesting, because we are in the process of harvesting, which is I think remarkable that Ukrainian farmers have been able to plant, care, and harvest now the products in this situation when they're not only under constant attacks, but we are also one of the most mined countries now, the unexploded ordinance, not only in the residential areas or mines, but also in the field. So look, we will do whatever we can. Soon there will be again another General Assembly of the United Nations. This issue is going to be discussed, of course, and raised by Ukraine. We are trying to communicate with all of our friends and allies, especially in, you know, what people call the global south, you know, essentially saying we have to be very vocal. We have to press on Russia. We have to tell them that we know who is behind this. And they have to stop not only this aggressive war against Ukraine, but they have to stop threatening half of the globe with the food crisis because it's serious. Yeah, it is extremely serious. I mean, as you were talking, I was reflecting on a long ago visit to the Museum of the History of the Holodomor, which is a remarkable place and key of very striking. If you've never been there, I will just tell you that it lies kind of on this open sort of square where there are tremendous monuments and historical museums of great value. But the Holodomor Museum, to me, is interesting just in the context of food security, the weaponization of food, this constant refrain of Russia to return again and again to the food as the weapon historically is, well, it's tragic, but also I think it should be a lesson to us all that actually as the conflict continues, we should just expect that to continue on some level from Russia. So there are some challenges ahead, as you say. I know that other people are gonna also have questions about just kind of the humanitarian crisis because of course this relates not just to food security, but human security. And I again just wanna remark on how struck I was, many war zones, you name them, with the exception of Iraq, I think I've been to all of them. And so I'm just curious to sort of, for me it was interesting to see how well the civilian response was sort of coordinated. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the humanitarian situation now, what you might predict for the future, the winters coming up, what's needed, what are the challenges that you see? Well, yes, you noted the Museum of Holodomor, which is striking that this year is the 90 years mark of that tragedy when Russians denied food, took all the food and people were dying from hunger. And this is probably the most cruel this and children when you live in the country where literally food grows everywhere and to create artificial hunger in the place which was the source of food for so many neighbors, not only for itself, is a very cynical and very cruel war crime, but again, not surprising what we see now because unfortunately we have a history of war crimes of Russians, whether it's Russian Federation, Soviet Union or Russian Empire against Ukrainians. But with regard to the humanitarian situation, on the one hand it's a very unique, I would say war, because I don't think we will find many wars when the government continued to execute its functions and never stopped it, not even for a day. So yes, where it was under occupation, even there our mayors tried to execute their functions and be with people and try to deliver food and organize something, that's why so many of our mayors have been kidnapped by Russians tortured or even killed, especially in the areas which they occupied but in general, all the areas where we have the control and as soon as we liberate, there is Ukrainian government there, both national and local. And all the society, and that's another key element, the civil society that work together with the government, so we are trying to address all these challenges with the help that we are receiving from the US. But that's why for the first time actually in our 32 years history, US is providing us with the budget, direct budget support, the grant direct budget support and this money are actually humanitarian money. They used to pay the salaries to educators, they used to support the IDPs, they used to provide the basic needs for people and it's done by the active government. Our banking system never stopped working during the war. During this war, Ukrainians, especially when there was the Russians were advancing at the beginning and occupying, people were actually putting money on their accounts and throwing their cards and trying to move to the territory which Ukraine controls because they knew that that's how it will be kept safe. Our digital system, DEA, which we have on our phones, so you don't need to have passport, a driver license with you, you have it all in your phone and that also allows us to communicate directly and to send money directly to people through this app, essentially governmental app and we have more than 20 million Ukrainians that are communicating with the government like that. So this is unique that we are trying to use the digitalization, the innovations and the government is adapting to this situation. On the other hand, of course, it's a humanitarian crisis of massive proportions. So yes, we're able to do and to use the help that we are receiving from the US and other partners to utilize it but then any thing you look, not all of our schools have bomb shelters, not all of them had and we need that in order for kids to continue their education. The majority of our kids are behind in their vaccination schedules, of course. The majority of people with very like rare or the diseases that require daily care, the different type of cancers, the people who require, who are on the different type of daily supports like dialysis or something like this. They cannot get it and not only under occupation, under occupation it's a total disaster. That's why people are killed and tortured and not have the access to basic needs but even in the places where either close to the front lines or everywhere, the need is pretty much in every sector whether it's healthcare or education or transportation and plus not to mention every day, Russia is trying to shell the infrastructure, Russia is trying to attack civilian objects but also others. There are more people that are killed or wounded. We have extreme number of people who lost their limbs and it's not only our brave warriors but it's also civilians throughout and of course preparing now for the winter. We remember what happened last winter when Russians specifically targeted the energy system in order to create the blackouts and to create the situation when either there will be additional waves of refugees because you cannot stay on them and unfortunately Ukraine has cold winters and when you don't have the electricity or energy supply it's not just about cold. You don't have the water supply, you don't have sewage, you don't have any other basic needs and that's a very, very difficult situation. However, and I just came back from Kiev five days ago, I was there when Secretary Blinken visited, the resolve of Ukrainian people is still there. I've seen it when I came back after Bucha was just liberated. It was April, 2022. I've seen it in September when I was there. I've seen it in December, 2022. It was cold and dark and I've seen it now and it's been throughout the 17 months that people say it's difficult. It's horrible, it's many losses but nobody would say that we shall surrender. We all know that surrendering for us, it just means that we will all die and fighting is at least we have a chance to survive and this resolve to fight is still there. Resolve to do everything possible and sometimes impossible. Yeah, that resolve certainly comes through and I actually was gonna ask you a little bit about, just a small follow up on the work being done I think with the help of the US and maybe some others on kind of building more resilient infrastructure for electricity in particular, if you could talk a little bit about that. Yes, we actually are working very actively with the State Department and Department of Energy and USAID is of course part of this group so we have like we have Rammstein meetings on weapons, we have literally weekly meetings on energy coordination and what we're trying to do and that comes a little bit related also to the reconstruction post-war is and to steal your president's quote build back better. So when we're looking at what Russians are destroying we're trying not just to rebuild or repair what was there but already think where shall we be in 10 years? So during this 17 months of war, as surprising as it is our cabinet of ministers adopted the energy strategy for the next 10 years. We agreed how we will replace the coal mines and everything else which had been destroyed with the renewables and we will change our mix and we will continue developing our nuclear stations which is the base for Ukraine so we a little bit more than 50% of in our mix comes from the nuclear and Ukrainians are very professional in the nuclear energy field and when we are talking to all of our friends and trying to get this additional transformers and generators and everything else of course I mean it's not something that is on the shelf and you can pick whatever you want it's something that you, it's rare commodity even without the war but when we're choosing between different options we already are thinking is it in line with the 10 year strategy? Is it in line with our post war reconstruction vision because we want after we win and there will be big need to rebuild and the destruction is really big especially in the areas which has been occupied for a longer time. We want to do it in a way that we can leapfrog from where we have been in 2022 ahead already so in all the sectors which are critical for Ukraine like agriculture, energy, IT and digital to do something that is 22nd century to do something that we can get more business to come to invest because let's face it just the recent study of the World Bank and they are doing this rapid damage report so it's called our DNA so the damage, just the physical damage not the losses of the profits not just the physical damage of what they have assessed was destroyed by Russians during the first full calendar of the full flashed war as of February 2023 amounted to 411 billion US dollars it's actually, it's not taken into account a big environmental damage it's not taken into account into the mining that has to be demined it's not yet, it doesn't include the destruction of the dam which actually is not just a simple environmental catastrophe and the losses that were right there for the water that was rushed down south but that reservoir was the source of the water for the agricultural district and for many towns and cities so the overall long-term effects are going to be also big so the damage is huge and in order to repair we of course would welcome any help from our friends and allies but the question whether we'll be able to leapfrog and do it is going to depend on will we attract business compliant, large business that will come and will do it together with us and that's why we have to open the door for all these innovations and do it in a very inspiring way so that we can become a hub for these innovations in our part of the world So interesting, I mean that's one of the paradoxes of war isn't it that I mean that it forces so much loss but then after the fact oftentimes there is a leapfrog in all kinds of ways sometimes social, sometimes technological, industrial but you mentioned something actually that you touched on Ramstein which maybe people in the room don't really know what that is but if you've spent any time in Germany you'll know that there is a base called Ramstein it used to be an expo for a lot of folks coming out of Afghanistan probably still is for most of the Middle East and a very important tie up, lash up for the collaboration and coordination of weapons transfers to Ukraine's frontline fighters we know that there's been a big decision recently on the big list of items that you are looking for in Ukraine we're getting close to two in fact one we have the F-16s Are you talking about this one? Yeah that's the one When did you pin that on? Before the decision Yeah that's interesting it was like a magic talisman So Denmark I believe has come through Netherlands has come through What do you think, what are you hearing from your colleagues in the defense side about the impact of the F-16s what will it take to get everything up and running what do you predict will happen in the next year what should we look for? Well first of all as you know we have been since February 24th working on the very long list of capabilities unfortunately we are fighting with not only brutal and criminal enemy but also enemy that is much larger than us so with all the support that we are getting Russia is still people wise and the methods they use to conscribe they can pretty much force any amount of people whoever they can catch and whoever did not leave the country to send them on the frontline but also they have a lot of weapons yes bad Soviet type you know sometimes not working but the quantity sometimes is a quality in itself so the list was large and first we were using both our old Soviet type of equipment and some Ukrainian equipment and then starting with the javelins and stingers and then everything else and now we are almost a hundred percent using the NATO standard equipment and to get more capabilities is very important because you know as military people say you know it's on the one hand it's a very World War I type of war you know like it's an artillery doles on a very long period very mined you know Russians simply are destroying whole villages you know the city of Mariinka the city of Bakhmut unfortunately when they were advancing they did not think about even the civilians they were just destroying inch by inch by inch moving forward and you know so we need to counter that we need to fight with that but we also need to do something with their supremacy in the air which is also very important so we were discussing a number of capabilities from the beginning and we are very glad that now we have the political decision on the F-16 because it's a very important part of the air defense it's a very important part of it it's an additional capability that has so many so much use and as you know our pilots are already at the training and we are working with our friends and partners big thanks to Netherlands and Denmark for agreeing to transfer the platforms and we are working on that so again it's a very complex capability it will take you know some effort to completely get it but you know it's all capabilities that we were getting for the battlefield today throughout the 17 months but we always were thinking also about building the army of the future how the Ukrainian military will look like after this because again with our aspirations as the future member of the European Union and future member of NATO we do have now the largest the most capable the battle tested army which will be an asset for the future transatlantic family so for us any capabilities that we add now it's not just the equipment that our brave defenders can use now but it's also it's also shaping through the battle the future force of Ukraine which again inevitably will be the eastern flank of NATO so it's a very we already have shown and our brave defenders have shown how quickly they can learn the US Patriots I think are showing remarkable performance saving lives, saving children in Ukraine but also showing how superior they are to any of the equipment that Russia has so it's not only a great capability for us to have and we are very grateful to the US for that but it's also a signal to so many other countries that whoever relied upon Russia to provide them the military support or the SAGs from the Wagner group they can no longer do either of them and it's a wake up call that with the size of the economy that they have with the lack of values and the aggressive nature and the imperialistic thinking which is totally outdated in the 21st century but they cannot even do the evil things as they did I mean they're still doing them to us but so it's a big I think geopolitical question for a number of our friends in the rest of the world and UN is such a great place so to talk about it and discuss it and see that we have to reform too we have to move forward we have to address the problem with the country that doesn't respect the UN Charter those conversations at the UNGA coming up to be a fly on the wall there would be quite something I have to say and I'm glad that you mentioned our friends the Wagner group thinking about those guys way too much time and so is my colleague Ben Dalton who is in the audience with us today my partner in crime a lot of folks in here actually have been very much part of the conversation about the Wagner group not only in New America but certainly I think in the United States and other places where people are paying attention so we've had some big action pretty recently I was planning to come to Kyiv actually but a certain friend of ours got in the way Yevgeny Progosian and Dmitri Utkin the operational commander of the Wagner group and of course Valery Chakalov who was kind of the money guy all killed along with four bodyguards and apparently a set of innocent crew members as far as we know we don't know a lot of questions about what happened there read my book whenever it comes out you'll know I may have some thoughts on it but I will say the question that I get asked now continually and I would like to ask you is okay they're dead but the Wagner group we all know has been linked to a number of war crimes countless really actually in the Ukraine context and we can't really talk about Syria and so forth so what's next with kind of accountability for Wagner operatives what do you think has changed and then where are we going with accountability and justice where they're concerned there is no lasting and just peace without justice and as you know President Zelensky when he says talks about the peace formula justice is such an important element of that so there we will we will not leave any stone unturned so I will come back to Wagner but in general we are doing the criminal investigation in Ukraine the prosecutor general is doing a remarkable job we have more than 100,000 individual cases that already are opened by the Ukrainian legislation US is helping us a lot and by the way Netherlands on data collection and evidence collection and also how to talk to victims because a number of these crimes are the sexual crimes or the brutal executions of civilians or tortures and you have to do it also in a way not to re-traumatize the victims so we are doing this and we are not only investigating we are also already in the courts and some people are not only indicted and some people are indicted in absentia and some people who we caught the prisoners in Ukraine but they are also sentenced and believe it or not and it's a big challenge which our prosecutor's office is paying very big attention to is that the due process of law is there and that all Russian perpetrators actually get lawyers to represent them and to defend them and this is the most difficult issue to find enough attorneys, Ukrainians who would defend but we have to do it, you know this is what differentiates us from Russians as well in addition to that a dozen of countries already opened their own criminal investigations we are fully cooperating with all the evidence to them and as many countries that would do it, we are very grateful there are three international courts all of which have cases whether on genocide or other one of them already indicted the ICC, both Putin and Lvova-Belova and rightfully so for the kidnapping of our Ukrainian children which is part of the genocide we are working very actively on the crime of aggression which is the mother of all the crimes and it's a very well documented crime because Putin did all of that online, literally he was publicly documenting every decision that he took which led to announcement of this special military operation, i.e. war and then he acknowledged the same actions in 2014 and 15 after he stopped pretending that it was some green man in Crimea of course it was us so this is very important and frankly of course the prosecution in Ukraine goes faster, the international courts will take some time the tribunal for aggression will take probably even more time but it doesn't matter people need to know each of this crime will be in the court of law of accountability now coming back to those who are dead yes, the leadership of the Wagner group is brutally executed in a very public way on the two months anniversary of their work to Moscow but they were not the only ones who were committing the crimes the thousands of Wagner operatives which again very documented in Ukraine we have a very big base of the evidence but all Russian troops as well so it's not just some rogue units it's not just some private type of military units which again we know they are not really private it's the Russian army and the Russian armed forces and the Russian president who created them and who were providing them with weapons and who were giving them instructions and yes there were some disagreements between but it's more a quarrel between the different lines of the same kind of organized crime organization rather than really state and the private doing it separately so we'll continue investigating, we'll continue indicting them there are other private groups not as successful I don't know whether successful is the word to use of course but not as capable but there was attempts by Russians to create these groups there are a number of them which I didn't hear they still are operating outside of Russia I mean hopefully without capable of the evil and criminal head like pre-Gorzhian we will see decline of the use of the Sugs in African countries and others but if not then justice for everything they've done in Ukraine will also help us to get them out from so many criminal missions throughout the globe so I think it's a very important issue and to get justice regardless of how much time it will take is as important as winning this war because that justice wherever it will be served fully will be the final victory in this war together with the reconstruction No justice, no peace that's how it goes we're getting kind of close to time and I know that there's probably a question or two in the audience so I want to open up the floor and maybe get back to the question on the ICC and the question with the children and what's going on there but let me go to the audience first and go with my colleague Peter Bergen Thank you Candice mentioned all the amazing work you were doing in Washington the central problem of course is the presidential election of 2024 quite a number of the Republican candidates sort of saying that they implying that they would reduce or maybe even end A to Ukraine I think 71% of Republicans now say A to Ukraine should stop so how do you deal with this sort of American political scene where the Putin is surely looking at these polls and making his own conclusions Well first elections are very important in any democracy and this is something for what we are fighting in Ukraine, for democracy for the ability to choose our government and to change it on a regular basis and I would never call an election a problem to be honest this is what people should do and this is the basis of all of us continue developing whether we like the results or not so first of all I have big trust in American people regardless of party affiliations when we explain it to people I always feel the support so when we tell people why and we tell people the more information about what's going on and we tell people that we are fighting for our homes for our loved ones that we were attacked by a brutal bully with no pretext with no reason whatsoever it's very much our own war for independence and freedom I think the majority of Americans understand and feel it because this is what Americans have in them this is what this country is built on these values so when people either do not support it or say it's not in the American interest it just means that we didn't explain it well we have to do more we have to go and talk to people for more information we have to provide them with this knowledge and that's why and again I always thank the journalists because their work has been a game changer during this phase of the war in 2014 exactly this happened Russia attacked us exactly the same way the Shem referendum in Crimea was no different from the Shem referendum now but our voice was not heard it was just our voice it's the cameras and the journalists who have been showing the world what's going on so it's very important to continue to inform people by informing people we also have to tell them more about how the American help to us work that yes there is 113 billion that Congress very generously appropriated to provide for the Ukraine and related to Ukraine support but not all of that money goes to Ukraine so yes we are getting the direct budget support which is about slightly above 20 billion for which we are very grateful of course again I always say how grateful we are so that is the money we are getting in order to be able to continue the fight and sustain the effort all the defense assistance which is much larger than this we are not getting the money we are getting the goods and a number of resources that Congress provided goes to replenish the stocks of the Pentagon it goes to increase the production here I just recently last month visited the Lima Ohio plant which produces and I have to tell you it's additional jobs there and the majority of people in that plant I mean I felt like I'm visiting friends there because they are proud that they are producing this excellent quality and that we will be able to do it similar with the plants that produces breadless and then you see the videos how when our brave defenders liberated Robotina in the south and there were still people there civilians you know of the age of my mother and they were put into this American Bradley to be evacuated to safety because everyone in Ukraine all defenders know if there is a shell in you go inside the Bradley not outside because this is the place we will be kept safe so we just have to explain that it's you know we are very grateful again for the weapons but they are produced here and we are doing it together and they are developing providing jobs here in the United States and it's also for the benefit of both of our countries you know we need the goods in order to defend our families but you are producing them here and third which is also very important we are defending not only us we are defending the whole European part which Putin has been very loud and clear that he wants to attack and he wants to he has problems not only with Ukraine he has problems with everyone who was able to get out from this empire the Russian, the Soviet or whatever you call it so he is threatened sometimes Poland he is threatened definitely all Baltic states he was talking how the Finland and other European friends and stuff like that so you know right now we are defending other including NATO countries at a very modest I would say military budget and we are doing it ourselves we are not requesting any of our friends to fight for us we don't need other boots on the grounds we just need the weapons but if God forbid we fall and Putin occupies completely Ukraine and kills us all he will not be stopped he will be emboldened by this and he will inevitably go further and then unfortunately a number of NATO countries will have to help to defend other NATO countries so the fastest and the most efficient from the financial standpoint this is the minister of finance is actually to help Ukraine to help the war now while it is still in Ukraine so whether it is the moral argument whether it is the shared values whether it is the effectiveness and efficiency argument because it is in the US national security interests to defeat an aggressive autocratic regime that not only attacked Ukraine let's keep in mind that they have attacked Georgia in 2008 committed horrible crimes in Syria that they have poisoned people in the streets of the United Kingdom that they have interfered and send their Wagner sacks into so many other places not to mention all the crimes that they have committed while they were in the form of the Soviet Union so many wars and so many so it's an all of our civilized people interests to live in a safer world which will return to the security architecture that we had after the World War II because that peace and again I do not imply that the peace was everywhere but at least the lack of a great war which would involve European continent has been a basis for the prosperity that we all enjoyed in the collective western countries and in some newly developed economies and we have to get back there as soon as possible if we want to continue delivering to our people to our citizens so I think when we explain it clearly to the American people they understand and they support so it's a task for all of us to explain it better so I see I keep getting these high signs over here I wish we could just keep going on I really hope you come back let me just say that because this has been a wonderful conversation I was going to ask you how many states you've been to but maybe we'll have that bet later how many states have you been to actually well not too many because I'm trying to stay here and I'm trying to travel for sure but I've been to California I've been to Ohio I've been to where did I go Massachusetts I've been to Pennsylvania I've been to Florida and New York of course but that's not we're going to Illinois I still have to come back to Indiana that's right you've got to get back to Indiana well listen I want to ask one tiny question but it's going to have to be a short answer I'm afraid I did want to come back to this question on the ICC decision to charge Putin to charge the High Commissioner on Children's Affairs big decision and obviously seems to have constrained Putin's movements what's your response and how has that decision affected the the efforts to repatriate Ukrainian children from Russia well first of all we are very grateful to ICC for taking that case for moving ahead with that case this is probably maybe for me as mother is the most horrendous crime of all so 19 more than 19,000 cases registered already in Ukraine the children we know have been abducted to Russia according to the estimates of our commissioner on these issues it's actually 200 to 300,000 the Russians themselves themselves claim is even larger amount of children they rescued as they say but you know killing of Ukrainian children abducting them to Russia putting them into this one day adoption and they change their own laws to be able to put them for the speedy adoptions indoctrinating them putting them through what they are telling us the teenagers that we were able to get back through the re-education camps which sounds like from the book about the World War II and what Nazis did to children is horrible everyone has to be punished for that and the fact that ICC ruled and indicted them is such a notion of justice an understanding of this problem so we are grateful for this government that is working with us on this issue we are trying to get back as many children as possible very difficult unfortunately we were able to return a very small number of them we are very grateful to everyone in congress there is a number of resolutions that submitted on this issue not only condemning but also calling for some actions with regard to how to do it it's a very difficult issue of course we need to win we will know first of all for sure what is the situation on the occupied territories but also this is what we will start working more actively we are working as active as we can but to have the win this of course is going to be a big part of our victories to get all our children back our first lady, our president and everyone in Ukraine says we will not rest until every child is back let's hope that happens thank you again ambassador for joining us such a pleasure and an honor I hope the audience will give you also a warm applause