 The Astros have been accused of cheating by using equipment the Giants hire manager and the baseball writers picked their awards winners What's going on everybody welcome back to talking there's ball where we got some juicy storylines here some fun some excitement Maybe baseball Jake you always want this has taken the top story in sports in the off-season Dominating the content calendar way to go baseball good stuff all around. Oh wait, it's a bunch of cheating and a bad look damn Well this episode of talking baseball is brought to you by C.M. Warren Nova scone Charles Stillman and Alex Brod our most recent patreon supporters Patreon.com slash John Boy media. I need to give out the jerseys from the raffle winners from October We've been in a crazy Spiral so that will happen and there will be a winner for November as well So join up $2 a month you help us out as we grow and we're hoping to start really pounding the extra content for you guys as well Once we kind of get going here in the off-season. My name is John boy coming to you from Manhattan and I got Jake. He's in Denver He looks really good And he's really excited to talk to you guys And Jake fours all yours Damn, what a lead-in. That's that's how we do it wards. Yeah, man. What a day Baseball one Tuesday November 12th, they won the news cycle Everyone was talking about Mike Schilt and that NL coach of the year award. So that's good for baseball Yeah, and I don't know are we passed accusations with the Astros cheating I'm kind of talking to the right guy, but well You have some firsthand accounts from inside the The well back up. Yeah, we're a little past accusations Yeah, we're a little past accusations. It's happened and oh My god are the Astros fans in a tailspin Jake. Oh a lot of backs against the wall Oh, oh, I admire them. They're backs against the wall right now And they are just throwing punches and kicks. Maybe some scratches Maybe they'll spit on you and they're just doing whatever they can to deflect That's how all their arguments start. It's like a muttered sentence where they don't know which excuse they're gonna do That's what the Astros fans are doing right now there's a couple I saw that are pretty taking it and stride and be like this sucks and I mean we'll get into everything because there are other teams doing this It's not just the Astros and all that nonsense, but it's a bad look Yeah, I had one one guy gave the Fellow named Scott and he I mean he he showed his cards pretty quickly that he was an Astros fan not arguing with any logic or facts, but he was he was fighting He was on the front lines and you need those guys. I you need them. I admire them, dude They're I have this woman who's like one second in a paragraph. She had me She was like who the fuck is this Jim Bob? Just great. That's good old Trump tech. Just say the name wrong She's like she goes in the first paragraph She probably lives at home with his mom watching Astros video all day And then in the second part of the tweet She said and then sends it to the Yankees to help them cheat and like that's badass You have me like at home with my mom and now you have me as a secret informant for the Yankees Like am I super cool or super lame make up your mind lady? Yeah, that that sounds like the start of a pretty cool like magazine like that's the next Marvel comic Yeah for my guy Scotty. He's like, okay So we've got one piece of evidence and we're rolling with this and I was like well We got a lot more now and so I dropped I was like, I know this is lame But I knew he was back against the wall scratching and clawing so I did the gif of the classic Scotty doesn't know So I I put that and I said I was like, hey, I know this is pretty this is this is a layup But you got to make the layups like I know it's not the most creative Gif but I know it works right here and Scott goes. Oh wow very clever Next time don't let your kids run your Twitter account And I was like you're gonna try to clever me and you're using the old video game excuse That's been going for 30 years. Oh my little brother had the remote like get out of here I appreciate that you're scratching and clawing Houston Let's see where this lands. I'm trying to find this this lady Because it's she just went off. I woke up to one guy an astros fan who had Messaged me like five paragraphs. Yeah Oh, oh Well, then I was him. Yeah, that's another one. So whatever. It's it's fun If you have no idea what we're talking about we'll back it up even further So the astros cheating with cameras and any team cheating with cameras has been a Thing a rumor a hushed Conversation for a couple seasons now and I don't know why but Mike fires who pitched for the astros then went on to pitch for the tigers And now he's with the Athletics he broke John Carlos stands face and has a stupid beard that like there's a patch on his face that he can't grow So sometimes he swirls his beard around that. Well, I think that's a pretty normal beard for a lot of people So thank you. He's thrown to no hitters Mike fires Uses pintar Mike fires Everyone does Just getting all the info I have on Mike fires out on the table now Okay, he he went on record with our my dude Ken Rosenthal and Said they have a system in place where they have a camera on the catcher and Then they have it fed wired to a computer in the tunnel and There's a guy's watching it and there's a guy next to the garbage can that bangs on the garbage can for off speed pitches Danny Farquhar, so that's an inside source saying. Yeah, I was part of it. I don't like it I try to tell any new pitcher when I'm on other teams. Hey, this stuff happens. So be aware of it Danny Farquhar Guy from Shrek who almost died And then made an awesome recovery all of that's everything I know about Danny Farquhar he Says, yeah, I heard it. I was pitching against them in 2017 And I was every time I the catcher put down the changeup sign. I heard banging. So I changed the signs And that's what I that's what we found on the video that I did the breakdown on if you go All right, anyone that's bored as fuck, right? If you're bored as fuck after you listen to this podcast at your office and you have the ability to have downtime go to YouTube and type the words in all caps at AT then HOU all caps 2017 And that will give you all the full games that are on YouTube, right? so at Houston dash 2017 that will give you all the full games that MLB or any YouTube account has of games that took place at Minutemade Park in 2017 and Just go to the 7th 8th 9th inning and you'll hear banging before breaking pitches I was doing it last night. It's too easy. It's literally almost every game So, I mean, this is why we see catchers throw multiple signs with no one on base the only reason they do that is because they think people off cameras and Announcers used to kind of scoff at it and say, oh, everyone's hyper sensitive now Maybe the players know some shit. We didn't maybe they knew this was really happening. So I mean, that's It's kind of everything. I've been told to go look at the playoff film, which I'm gonna try and look at that and Yeah, it's pretty bad it sucks it It sucks and we're we're gonna do awards on the second half of this episode And I mean it it even it trickles into stuff like that. You're an Alvarez wins rookie of the year You know, did he know what pitches were coming for part of that? Did John means get screwed over a little bit? We'll do that a little later. But yeah And it's I'll give the generic thing just because again if you're a baseball fan and you're listening this you probably know but you know, there's if you ain't cheating you ain't trying that that phrase has gone with every sport throughout the years and There but there is a fine line and our our guy Jeff Jeff Passant Passing I saw him on a SVP Sports Center last night, which again, hey baseball's talked about on SVP Sports Center We did it But he said it was a really good delivery by him. I'm gonna give him a Slap on the pooper at do his deliverings He goes well, he basically said that he goes, you know It you know cheating has been a part of baseball since day one and sign or sign stealing has been a part of baseball since day one And then he pauses and he goes but there is a fine Line in the Astros cross that line. There's gamesmanship and then there's Breaking the rules. Yeah, it's it's you know, and and we've seen it for years So like I I guess you know Houston's gonna get shat on pretty hard But know that this has literally happened for years. We've had telescopes in the outfield going back to like the 1920s We've had all sorts of stuff So, yeah, I mean there's there's an aspect of this has been done before but it's also with technology getting better I mean right right now basically the assumption is they have a live feed focused on the sign the cameras giving Guy in the dugout ready to whack a trash can If it's an off-speed pitch, I was just on some radio show talk about that guy's job that Okay, so I was just on some radio show this morning Tucker This root of me, but I honestly don't know Tucker Ross show home and home with Tucker Ross something that They had me on very nice of them And I kind of stumbled into that thought process that you just had like who the fuck's that guy just yeah all game Just with a baseball bat And then like a guy looking at computer off-speed boom Like give me footage of that dude Imagine cuz they're imagine casually walking by that and it's like a guy hunched over at a computer screen And then another guy with a baseball bat like you just walk by like the fuck are you guys doing we're giving the guys the signs Yeah, I Would I would love to know more about that dynamic I heard a rumor I heard a rumor I heard a rumor that it was Taubman was the one bang in the garbage can Yeah, that's that is the big rumor swirling the internet that all of this is Taubman Which by the way, I do respect the hustle on Astros fans saying If you if you've got I mean they're saying it jokingly, but if you've got a guy already going down with the ship Yeah, yeah fucking Taubman just tie that anchor to Tobi So yeah, it's And it's like You were a big part of the reveal to the world yesterday with the video and it's as I told you I rarely like to fluff your balls But I think it's some of your best work in like like when Danny Farquhar steps off when he calls for that third change up You're like yep, okay cuz cuz like you could you could start playing these games where it's kind of a yeah Maybe this is a coincidence. There's some banging going on Maybe maybe they just know what's coming. They're really good with sequencing then when you see him step off It's kind of like this. Oh Yeah Everyone knows what's going on and they they have the the ex-players Mike fires is on the forefront and people were guessing at the other Former Astros who were involved in this And in like giving confessions basically so Yeah, it's I mean, it's not good. I mean, thank God dude No, it's a big thank God here. How about if the Astros wanted this year? Yeah, like how how bad would that be for for where we are right now, maybe it'd be even more fun and Like we we said that I think we said that during the World Series. What was the game where? Oh, Ren Ren don't hits the home run after the the interference call in the baseline And we're like, thank God that happened because that that saved everyone some terrible baseball drama Thank God Washington won because this would this would be ten times the story Otherwise a lot of people are wondering like what happens and I would probably want our thoughts on what happens And I disappointed the radio show is on because I said I don't think anything happens I have I'll prepare myself for baseball to not do a thing because Baseball is gonna baseball. Well, something's gonna happen, but like like however you label anything light fine I feel My I want big things to happen Right, and we'll be to well say that say what you're feeling. Well, I want them to I don't think they will right We'll give us both. I don't think titles or anything should be rescinded fuck that I don't care about that like rescinding stuff. I think is so lame and Anyone who like rejoices in something being rescinded like come on I don't get over Astros won the World Series catch them in the act, but I do think there's we should be some harsh penalties moving forward I think they're gonna go back and look at all this footage and like I just told people go find it Anyone can find it if you're listening for banging and I think I think in 2018 2019 They they change systems or whatever because like that was so obvious Yeah, so I would like harsh penalties. I don't even know what that means like draft picks finds All that stuff I'd like teams to not feel like they can do this because a lot of other teams are doing this and it sucks that They Astros are gonna have to be the scapegoat here and the example setters But there's also a reason for that. Everyone hates these guys across baseball Yeah, like not not just fans like I have people reaching out to me That I can't say so whatever but are like hey do this more check out this game check out this game Like this is we need this to blow up People within baseball they want the Astros to be taken down So I don't know why the Astros are hated from within they the smugness or how blatant it is or whatever, but Well, it was the smugness. It's it's Taubman. It's a little bit that fan base that was that was ready for a dynasty that now looks looks a lot different and that was One of my favorite things yesterday was like hey Houston PR after winning the ALCS is like Oh, we might have to start prepping for the World Series and then it's like oh well We've got an assistant GM who mocks domestic violence We And then we tried to ruin a reporter's career, okay, and then we lost the World Series Oh, and yeah, now we're cheaters. Okay So that's kind of a tough cycle. Yeah, I I think what's going to happen is that they're going to get And it depends what you consider a big fine or not a big fine And Pesant talked about this a little bit he that I think they can get a fine It's like two or three million max because there's there's like rules in Different CBAs and stuff about this like if if you are caught doing this These are the penalties And so I think it's loss of draft picks and there's there's a decent fine But that's not enough like if that does come if that is how this all ends and it's like well Yeah, it says it says we could take away five of their draft picks and find them three million dollars Guess what they don't give a shit. They want a World Series. That's the goal And yeah, I when you talk about something drastic happening like I We're not gonna get to the level that they actually put an asterisk in the book I think it's just gonna be something known that that goes on with this team when you do look back in history They're not taking down flags or anything They do need to take it a step further and I I don't know I'm running hot from yesterday because I listened to some Bart Giamatti stuff, which was actually awesome Former MLB commissioner and he's well known for being the guy that suspended Pete Rose I don't know they need to find a way to Make use in an example because guess what if you're an organization and you're just gonna loot Ask every fan base an organization if they could trade a couple draft picks and two million dollars for a World Series because they would So they need to find a way to make an example, I don't know if it's something with hinge I mean, can you can you like ban hinge from baseball? Like that would be that would be a nuke and that would that would keep managers on their toes I don't know. They need to find something to make an actual example of them because because what we're talking about I mean 2017 Altuve wins the MVP. They win the World Series that year We're gonna talk about Jordan Alvarez winning the rookie of the year later And that's part of mark Mike fires speech that's important is he's like, yeah, man When I was on the Tigers we had young pitchers going in there And I was like their careers about to be ruined because they're not gonna get through two innings If these guys know what pitches are coming and it's true like the the actual day-to-day ripple effects of this are awful Yeah, it's really bad and I mean I'm just watching my Notifications come in and just like remembering all the the Scratch it and claw and Astros fans are doing someone's like oh, so they cheated to pop out It's like the results don't matter the Astros were better on the road in 2017 than they were at home There's still a really good baseball team full of really good players The results don't make the cheating less using technology to get the pitches is bad Whether it helps you win or it doesn't it's against the rules strictly against the rules Yeah, and it's yeah I saw saw people coming out with those stats and they're like well doesn't matter It's like well that that's not the point. There's not the point at all It's not the point and you don't know how much it matters What if they were supposed to be a lot? What if they were gonna be worse at home? You know, what if what if there was stuff they were doing on the road? I know some players were hinting at that the other day, so I don't know like that's the part when when you opened with accusations. I said we're past that but there's still I Wanted to say tip of the iceberg, but there's still a lot to unfurl here And and what was actually going down and were they doing stuff on the road and that that one chart that guy posted? in the feed with the Walk to strike out right strike out percentage minus walk percentage or something like that and it's a pretty it's it's like You said this and it's one of my favorite things you've ever said Jim ever Wow it was we were working with a Chart one day and it just looked like a fake chart It looked like if you were if you were making a movie and you need a chart in the background Like it looked like a fake chart this chart looked like a real chart But it looked like it was perfect. It was exact correlation like you know the all 29 MLB teams Were just a little better a little worse at doing at from their strikeout percentage minus their walk percentage Except the Astros who they were their own little place and it's and it was funny I I didn't fully bite my time But one of the geeks came in and was like well, you know, you these are still good baseball players and Yeah, you know that it doesn't seem significant enough with the cheating and it's like you have no idea The significance of the cheating all I have in front of me is a graph that has all the other baseball teams in a line And then Houston's not in that line with cheating allegations. They they referenced Peter Lonzo They're like they were like well Peter Lonzo hit the most home runs That doesn't mean he's cheated and I was like well if you found out he had a corked bat that would mean that So I don't know baseball is in a little bit of a titty tizzy. We've got Astros fans backs against the wall We've got analytics people trying to defend it with analytics when it's like hey Hey, you guys you wait a second because we'll use you but cheating is cheating Good good podcast visuals. I was for the YouTube crowd YouTube. Yeah, and do we have anything else on this? I'm very interested to see where it lands interested what Hinch says because when the Yankees said they were heard whistling out of the dugout and stuff like that obviously Hey, you know who was on the New York Yankees in 2019? You know who's on the Houston Astros in 2017 Then Cameron Maven told his teammates in the ALCS. Hey listen for some stuff coming from their dugout Plausible in my head. It's plausible. So the Yankees are on high alert. This is rumored within the walls Hey, check out when you play a minute-made park listen for stuff coming from their dugout Yankees listen They hear some whistling and then AJ Hinch just scoffs at it If I knew it was that easy to get in their heads, we would practice that at spring training Hinch You would see right through you now. I like you. I thought you were a super cool guy super cool guy Nah, uh smug bastard There's only one way to lie Jake and it's to be smug about it if the MLB were to give out a significant punishment Is is Hinch the guy? I've no idea All I know is that they can if the MLB wants to spend time and money They can do a full investigation. They have The entire 2017 home games all 81 of them. They have the isolated audio of just the park I don't have that. We don't have that. They don't offer it right now. They can do an extensive look into this and listen for the banging and they can ask people within the Inside like hey, can you corroborate fire story? You were in there, you know and And It should be a very easy investigation Like people on twitter are saying because all the astros are saying we don't have anything and like some lawyer chimed in is actually You have enough to go to trial right now. You have enough you have inside witnesses You have evidence like you have testimonial like you have enough right now And that's what you're saying is past accusations. We kind of have enough So we'll see how MLB acts on this. I'm not holding my breath and I also if Make it stop in the future and have the astros be embarrassed about it for now and that's enough for me Basically make it stop in the future And I think I think the other thing that we we unfortunately need to address because because maybe some some of the crazies are on here That are saying just that it's just Yankee sour grapes Hey, I think you're gonna find out in the coming months or so that it's it's not just Yankee sour grapes Does it suck that the Yankees lost to them in the alcs twice in the past three years? Absolutely, and it depending what actual punishments come from it But no, it's it's just There's when you get introduced to the world of baseball I mean, there's like there's a couple things you learn. It's like, okay. Don't step on the foul line That's I mean that's a little more gimmicky But I mean you just don't You don't steal signs in an unorthodox way using technology Or anything outside of the realm of the baseball field or context clues And it that's that's the part that I think sucked for us the most gym was that we saw the tipping pitches this year in in the You know, who was it glass? No for the raise. Yeah He wanted he he kept his hands lower if he was throwing off speed and his hands higher if he was throwing a fastball It's like that is the beauty of baseball um Like being able to find that out and being like yep game time and then cheating It's cheating gamesmanship and cheating. Yeah I think that that's all we have to say on this one Which will end this first half of the show and and this portion of the youtube video. Thanks for watching