 All right, I'm going to go ahead and get started so that we have enough time at the end of Kevin's presentation for questions and answer. And as always, these webinars are recorded so you can access them at a later date. I'd like to thank everybody for coming. My name is Kate Talman, and I am the new chair of the help. I'm in an accidental government information library and webinar series. This series is brought to you by the American Library Association government documents roundtable and, as always, we're really appreciate you joining us. You'll be muted during the webinar, but we encourage you to participate in the chat. If you don't see a chat window you can click on the chat icon along the bottom of your screen. We also encourage you to add questions via Q&A function throughout the session. We'll save them for question time at the end, but we encourage them to submit them as you think of them. If there are any technical issues myself and Kelly Wilson are on hand to help. So feel free to chat with the hosts if you run into any issues and worst case scenario remember that the session is being recorded so it will be preserved. Great. I have a couple upcoming webinars that I just wanted to give you a heads up about. In September, we have federal documents declassification webinar that we're working on let's go towards education committee. There will be more information about that coming up soon. In October, we will have a presentation entitled reporting on the world of government information, the panel presentation from the editors of the IFWA professional report government information landscape and libraries. But for today, I'm really excited to hear from Kevin Dyke. We also talked to us about navigating spatial data resources. So spatial data, including paper and digital maps as well as GIS data sets are a common product of government information or governmental agencies, and as such they frequently find a home and library collections. The distinct form factor and subject matter of maps makes them a valuable resource for all kinds of users, but at the same time complicates storage and discovery. So tonight today we'll explore some innovative approaches to handling spatial data and making it accessible, both in person and online. Sorry, speaker today is Kevin Dyke. Kevin is maps and spatial data curator at Edmond Low Library, the Oklahoma State University Library. His responsibilities include so reading the library's physical map and aerial photograph collection, managing the digitization and preservation of the collection, and making the collection more accessible and relevant to members of the Oklahoma State University community community. So this is Kevin Dyke. Originally trained as a geographer Kevin is also an experienced user and developer of GIS software. So with that, I'm going to stop sharing and hand it on over to you Kevin thank you very much. Thank you so much. It's really appreciate the invitation and the chance to be here to speak with you all. I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. There we go. So I really, yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here. So as Kate mentioned, I'm at Oklahoma State University. So yeah, I did a little background. And before I came, there was a gentleman named John Phillips, who stewarded our digital map collection but more his long career was spent in government documents here at OSU. And he was a tremendous influence and mentor in a lot of ways for me when I began this role. And he's, he's still still a presence in terms of working with the maps is really great and government documents has since been passed into the capable hands of Suzanne Reinman, who I know has been an active member of the door for a number of years. And she's been incredible help to me throughout. I still feel like I'm new, even though I now just past the seven years since I started here. I'm really does fly when you're in a basement with a bunch of maps. So yeah, it's really, it's been a fabulous time. You know, and this is, so just to explain a little bit about the structure of how our library has worked previously, and how I imagine a lot of it for those of you who work in libraries which I am just going to assume is a lot of you, your, your libraries are probably similarly structured. So before I started our maps, our map library the map room, as it's sort of colloquial colloquially known was part of government documents. There had been a part time faculty member in charge of the map room. You know, back in the mid 90s, I think, basically, but when that responsibility for faculty went away, then it fell under the umbrella of government documents. And the reason for that is that the fairly simple reason is that a lot of the maps in our collection are government documents. Just something I'll sort of be harping on a lot during this this talk, and how intertwined the roles truly can be so there's, I know, there are plenty of people who have served as government documents, librarian as maps librarian as both as neither as as just one or the other but then having responsibility for all the collections so it really we frequently share a lot in terms of responsibilities but also expertise and so we. It's always a great way to partner up. I just want to point to one thing is our digital map collection, this is something that I think one of our signature efforts at the OSU library and this has been an ongoing project this is something that's been for more than 15 years now, our digital map collection has been built, and the real cornerstone of our digital map collection comes from the congressional serial set we have a set of nearly 3000 maps that have been digitized extensively documented and made available online. So you can see here for here's one example and our focus with these serial set maps are that they need to have something to do with Oklahoma slash Indian territory, as we were, as it was previously known. So here you can see this is a map of the Chickasaw nation in 1900. And so, and this came from a from the serial set volume. We have 291. And so we've, we went through our rather extensive congressional serial set collection, either remove the match from those volumes or if they were too small or to brittle. We left them in but digitize them one way or another. And that's the way we make those all available to everyone. So some of you may also be familiar with the Redex product serial set maps. And that's an invaluable tool that allows you to search through the serial set specifically for maps. And it breaks it down by volume and makes downloads available. So really between our collection. And the Redex service, we offer a fairly comprehensive view at the maps that come out of the congressional serial set and that's something that, especially when you get into the 20th and 21st century even the, they continue to continue to have value even though they maybe aren't quite as aesthetically appealing as they once were. Let's take a little step back. We're not not talking about OSU not talking about my own collection anything like that. I want to talk about the notion of spatial data. And this is something that when I first encountered it took me a little bit to sort of orient my mind thinking in this way, because you know, just the phrase spatial data that is, you think about that and it and it has a, I think just because the word data is there it has a sort of analytic or some computer resounding meaning to it. In reality, it's sort of a phrase that has become popular for use of when referring to all variety of things. So and this might just be my own interpretation so obviously this I welcome anyone who thinks otherwise it's not a problem, but thinking about it as an umbrella term and then a number of things coming under including maps and things like that. So here is a literal umbrella of spatial data and under which you can see we have scanned maps paper maps and then GIS data, which itself consists of vector data and raster data. And all these are, especially when it comes to a government information professional, these things are very common. A single largest provider of geographic data in maybe in the world is the federal government of the United States and maybe even just US Geological Survey, specifically. The fact that we our government information at the federal level is made freely available is just, it's hard to overstate the value of that to people who work with maps and GIS, because data can be extremely expensive to procure otherwise. So, so GIS and this so just in case I don't assume familiarity with what GIS is or anything like that, I want to talk just a little bit more about what these terms mean. So just to kick off something I should have done already. GIS is an acronym that stands for geographic information system. And basically all that refers to is is software and hardware. It used to be software on software and hardware back in the days when computer hardware had to be sort of customized to perform a particular sort of task versus now where we have a hardware that can, you know, handle any sort of software, more or less. So we're thinking about software that allows you to display, analyze and manipulate data within some sort of two or three dimensional, three dimensional, or two dimensional space. It's as basic as that that's what it comes down to. And then when we're talking about the types of GIS data. We mentioned vector and raspy data so now let's just quickly take a look at what those mean. And it's not that the terms vector and raster are exclusive or or contained only to this sort of maps and GIS world vector and raster that they're common computer graphics ways of talking. So if you've ever used Adobe illustrator. That is a vector art package software. And then so it's so a vector vector data vectors in general are comprised of either points lines or polygons. And you think of it, that's thinking in terms of one dimensional shape, which is a point where it has neither sort of distance or breadth to it. It's just a single point that so that's a zero V. And then one dimensional is a line, but you have a start point and an endpoint and the distance between those but there's no sort of depth or width to it. And then the polygons, we're getting into two dimensions where you have length and width. And you can go, you can build into three dimensions. When you introduce the z axis or height, obviously, but that we're going to focus on the 2D in terms of how we're describing this. So you think about these three sort of fundamental ways of representing and think about maps you've seen. If you look at a map of, for example, a university canvas, you might see points on the map indicating where bike racks are located for fire hydrants. And then you might see polygons rectangles representing the footprint or sort of the footprint of a particular building. So you can see that's where the library is on the canvas represented by this two dimensional polygons. And then lines you can imagine streets going from point A to point B, those would be represented as a line. Now the tricky thing here, or maybe not even tricky. The other thing to think about with regards to these sort of representations I just talked about is that the way something is represented as vector data is not fixed in any way really. So what do I mean by that. If you think about a map of the United States. We were talking and showing the entire continental United States. The way a city is represented on such a map like that, how we would be with a point. When you change scale. So you know scale meaning how zoomed in or zoomed out you are that you zoom in far enough, say to the northern third of Illinois. And really, you would not represent the city of Chicago as a point on such a map as that you would probably represent the city using a polygon that would indicate at least roughly. It's, it's boundaries. And so, at the next time you're browsing an interactive map application such as Google maps Apple maps whatever, but just as you zoom in and out, you can you can see the vector form of the same place changing in real time, in terms of how it's being represented. It's really it's something. I don't know it's extremely nerdy things but it's something that I've always enjoyed to look at. And another example is, if you look at lines representing streets on a map. It'll start out as a line with with just one with just length and no width, but you get in far enough. So if you just have particular needs, you will see streets represented as polygons, because you need to know in some cases how wide is this actual street, because there's a difference between a side street and an interstate. When it comes to public works work orders and things of that nature. So there's a shape and method of representation for all sorts of things and it's not necessarily the same throughout. Even within the same map. So then there's raster data and raster data. We can think of that simply representing using rather than points line and Pollock points lines and polygons it's representing information using a grid of some sort. So every photograph, every digital photograph, you've ever taken, you've created a raster image and so any JPEG any TIF anything those sorts of image files those are all rasters. So this is an example of a raster that is a an aerial photograph. This is showing the Oklahoma State campus, I think in 20, let's see. 2021. But then, so that's an aerial photograph that's something you can imagine as a raster. Here's another one this is also you would classify this as a raster this is a digital elevation model. So what that means is that every single cell in the grid. Remember rasters just made up of grids going from top to bottom. So each cell in the grid has a certain value. And in this case that value represents how far above sea level that point is that that cell. So in this example you can see the white, that's where elevation is the highest and it goes down to where it's darkest and that's where elevation is above us so you can see. You might be able to see that you can see it sort of run off and stream that works because this is somewhere out in the Rockies I believe that I grabbed this little snapshot. This is the sort of thing so you have a value for everything. You have L and there's there's not anywhere on the planet that has a sort of that doesn't have an elevation value, if that makes sense. There are places where you're not going to get to off track. And then let's see this is one more example of what constitutes a raster. And this is land cover. So this is as opposed to those other two forms where one was taken, you know from an airplane. And then the digital elevation model those are generally created using satellite imagery from with global coverage. This is an example of a classification raster so this each color on this map on this image you're looking at represents a different category of land cover. So it might be that the, I should have written down some of these but you can imagine one being dense urban one being water, one being impervious surfaces, things like that. So if you've heard of that there's the national land covered data set for the United States and that's that's another third example of raster data. Okay. And then you take all of these different points lines polygons and rasters. So all the vector and raster data, you take that and you, you take each of those and they each act as a layer. And then you stack them on top of each other and that's how we create our representation of the world, because the whole point of the GIS is that when you're stacking these layers together. You have the same reference points so that they, they overlay on top of one another in the correct manner so that when you're looking at the streets and the land usage they line up correctly. And that's really where the power of GIS comes into play, because whereas with traditional map making you would, you are sort of. When you've decided what you're including and you've included that you are that you are good to go you are stuck with that. Which is oftentimes not a problem, but in terms of being able to rapidly change and explore different aspects of a particular data set do sorts of exploratory data analysis. And I think my GIS really excels at because you can introduce different layers, and then you can introduce sort of change the way you're representing the different players you can fiddle with all sorts of aspects and variables involving all these different layers. Then there are maps, and this is, I couldn't help, but put. So this, so this is a representation of a real of an actual physical map. As we know they do exist and they are still very useful. And this is a ribbon map. This is actually a picture, a couple of pictures I took this past summer. When we were in LA in Chicago, we did a tour of the New Mary library, and they pulled a number of really fascinating maps are still looking at this was one of them, where this this ribbon map of, I believe the Mississippi. Unrolled the entire length of the really long table so that it's really fascinating and something that you could really, you had to see it in person to really believe or even let alone appreciate it. Then there are real, there are paper maps that have been digitized and so we have these digital surrogates for these maps. And that's what that so what I've already talked about earlier in terms of our digital map collection. That is, in a lot of ways the most common way people will encounter maps today. So this is an example of. A set of maps we have in our library, showing land ownership across the entire state of Oklahoma in 1936 1935 36 showing land ownership and land value of rural property across the entire state. So it's a set of over 2000 maps. It was made originally with the intent of improving tax collection, because this was during the depression during the dust bowl. So the government of Oklahoma was desperate to sort of uncover potential sources of revenue. And so they made these maps with the intent of standardizing how, how, how land was evaluated, because we could look at from one county to another just across the county line with basically the exact same land and there would be drastic differences. This was the first time those differences were really systematically explored in any way. So it's a really, really fascinating collection of maps. And it's something that so we digitized all them. And we've created this. Let me show you. So this is an example of one of the sheets of maps. And this is an application we've made where we took every single sheet. Every single one of these maps so it was broken down by counting so each county had any number of sheets. You know 2030 or in the case of Osage County are largest, almost 80 sheets. We scan them and then we georeferenced them, which georeferencing is the practice by which you take a map or other. Anything and assign coordinates to it so that it can be placed within a GIS in such a way that it fits with everything else. So here, let me zoom in. And so you can see, you can zoom in and see, see where GA SWART had land that was valued at $1280 at this time. And then something you can do here is you can click that and then click the view. And it will take you to the original map. So this is a way that we've made it so that, for example, you could put in your home address, which I'm not going to put here but you can just do a search, and it will show you where you are. So for example, if you are out of my house is right around here. So I could see that who actually owned the land my house is on now, who owned it nearly 100 years ago, and this is a, these are maps that have been used by a lot of people doing family, family research so there are a lot of people whose families have owned farms across the state, going back before this time even, but also, this is a resource that's being used in research, where there's a reason there's one project where there, they are using the effect of heterogeneous land ownership on the efficacy and distribution of oil and gas extraction. So the fact that their hypothesis is that the more heterogeneous and sort of split land ownership is the more I think that it'll be more difficult to pull, to pull as much from the earth, which makes sense, in a way. So the yeah this is an example of how we approach our collection, where you take these original maps, these things that tremendous amount of effort went in, went into making them, and they're just so rich with production, but you digitize them and you make projects and workflows that make it possible to bring them to a broader audience which I think is just always an important way to go and super and kind of fun too. And one more is sort of born digital maps, and this is something maps that have not really been printed and this is some this is a US topo map right here. And so any map published by USGS since 2007 I believe has not had an official printing it's something that you do. It's all digitally made, and you can order a print made of it but it's not a first edition second edition sort of thing that's something that's constantly sort of being updated and something you can, you can download and access, and that's something I want to talk about just a little bit. So yeah, I've already alluded to it a few times here, but we have a few agencies that really just produce have contributed so much value so much legitimately so much money into the development of GIS and map making as a, as an industry, and that couldn't wouldn't be possible without USGS Census Bureau and the Bureau of Land Management. I just want to talk a little bit about each of those because they are just so omnipresent and important, not just in government documents but to all of us in academic map and library maps and libraries in general. So yeah USGS they're the ones you blame for all the topographic maps that are filling up potentially hundreds of drawers in your map library or in your documents library, but I'm kidding of course, but the USGS is a truly they do fabulous work. So much so much information so much value added products they have they have something called the national map, which allows you to download. You can see here's topo builder this is what I was talking about. So you use the national map and topo builder that's how you can construct a map like that one I mentioned that topo. Where it's not an official publication, but it's all this data you sort of put together to make a official topographic map. So yeah, USGS publications they are a the lion's share of many a map collection. And just the topographic collection alone is tens of thousands of maps. And this is something that a lot of places have have targeted for either reading or even just simply moving off site, but in one way or another making space. There's something that I do not want to this way people from doing because honestly it is one of the lowest risk and highest reward decisions to make because, like I said, especially the 24,000 scale, which are the largest scale maps, more of the most large scale maps that USGS produced over time, and they can just take up a whole lot of space I believe we have about 4000 just for the state of Oklahoma alone in our collection. And that adds up in terms of storage space. And the reason that I would encourage you all to maybe if you're if you're hard up for space, and you need to come up with some names or some, some ways to create more space. Consider the US topos and USGS topos and one of the reasons is the existence of this web app called topo view. And let me just give you a quick view of that. The application allows you, I'm just going to zoom in to very provincial person I like to stick with where I am. So you can zoom into wherever you're interested in you can you simply click on it. And then you'll see over here, we have all of these maps. So let me zoom out. And you can see, we can appear you can filter it by date. So we can go for much more, more recent ones. You can move it all the way back, and we can see still water, the 1893 sheet, and you can see you can download it any number of ways here. So really. You can see this is the first topographic map of, of, of still water, where it was simply just black and white. You can see all these contour lines here indicate that elevation. But you can also see a little bit of the town being built up there. So it's really. And it's as easy as that. So honestly, I frequently refer people to us just topo maps. It's something that I yeah they are a very important resource and something I mentioned a lot when I sort of had people asking me questions or looking for something. But more than nine times out of 10. Maybe 49 times out of 50. You can simply go to topo view and show them what's available. And something people like to have copies and this is something where with topo view they can download a high quality image and get it printed from a print shop but also USGS has a store for purchasing and ordering prints of their topographic maps and that's something that I've, I've referred a number of people to so really, it's a fantastic resource. So in terms of weeding just a little bit more on that you. For example, I have topographic maps in our collection covering every single state in the country. And that's something that I do not necessarily need in my collection. I am dedicated to collecting materials related to Oklahoma and Indian territory, obviously, but also joining adjacent states so sort of like Texas and Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, etc. But if for your own depending on your own sort of collection development policy, you probably don't need thousands of topographic maps for a state. All the way across the country. There's no worries about about discarding original or anything like that it's just not a problem and you're going to have if you're part of the depository program and you receive them that way you'll obviously need to go through your own proper withdrawal proceed procedures if you are indeed looking to withdraw them. But even just moving into offsite storage is really quick way to get a whole lot of space back. Thanks to topo view and great work done by USGS. Then there's also Earth Explorer I'm not going to going to jump over there but that is a great resource for anyone. I use it for patrons who are looking for remote sensing data. So sensing data is typically that's raster data like we're talking about so aerial photography satellite imagery, all those sorts of things. If it was produced by not only the USGS but other agencies as well, you can find it through Earth Explorer. And it's a really robust interface and a lot of you can anything that's not scan you can also you can still find these images even if they haven't been scanned yet and if you really need them you can pay to expedite the scanning sort of bump them up to the top of the line. But a lot of what they have has been scanned and is available full resolution already so that's something I rely on heavily when I'm helping people. So, yeah, I'm sure everyone is familiar with data.gov. And I'm not sure what the consensus is among you all. I've always struggled to navigate data.gov just because it is so huge. It's just a vast a vast array of data sources coming in all sorts of scales so you have like municipalities contributing data all the way up to all the federal agencies. And you may have noticed on data.gov that there's a checkbox between geographic and non geographic. And I think that's pretty telling that that's like a way to cut the catalog in half basically is to say I'm looking for a geographic focus here. I just think that's, and really a statement on how prevalent it is in public federal state local data place in space matter, I guess is the way to think about it. One wrong way. There we go. Census data is a, I just love this logo for Tiger's files. It's classic. And I cannot save the acronym for what Tiger stands for out the top of my head I know it's topologically integrated geographic entity. Yeah, I shouldn't have even tried. The US census, I'm sure everyone's familiar with census tables and things like that. There's the whole other side of census data is geographic. So GS data. So how do we, where are the boundaries of this particular census tract where how do we what are what what is the metropolitan area outline for Washington DC how do we how is that determined. And then how do you take this geographic information and how do you how do you join that together with the demographic tabular information. So that's anyone who's tried it who's gone through that effort it's, it's not a trivial thing to undertake. And that's something that I really encourage the use of the National Historic GIS, which is a product out of the University of Minnesota. This claimer I was a research assistant when I was in grad school on the NHGIS, but they have done such a fabulous job of making it easy to search every census going back to 1790, and finding the tables with the demographic with whatever you're interested in in finding, and then getting appropriate geographic level data files and then very clear instructions about how to join those together. And I cannot recommend it enough. And then Bureau of Land Manager. If you are familiar with the public land survey. This is something we frequently encounter in my work is how do we decipher these things where we're talking about the northeast quarter of the 14th section of the second township to south or range for East. It gets this and for anyone who's not familiar with the public land survey is how when the western two thirds of the United States were when, when, when settlers moved that way, white settlers moved that way, the way the land was classified an inventory was using the public land survey where you have a principle meridian, which is determined by squares and then these very neat grids or relatively neat grids were created where you have a township which is six miles by six miles square, and then you break up each of those into sections where each section is one mile by one mile square. So you have 36 sections per township, and then you describe the land using. Once you get into a certain section, you can describe it as sort of, for example, the northeast quarter of the section that's that one, and you can break that down more by saying the southeast quarter of the southeast quarter. There's this tiny one right here. And so it can get really, really, really small as land became subdivided further and further and further over time. And I mentioned that because a frequent thing I like to use is are the general land office records and this is a great resource again for people researching land history family history, you can find the original patents for land. You can see actual maps that were drawn out in the field by the surveyors performing in the public land survey, and a really valuable resource that I encourage you to use in combination with all of your own other knowledge that you bring to your patrons. So really, that's all I wanted to say for now, I think I'd love to answer any questions that you all might have. I do, I have one, one reference here from a past webinar, I think it was about a webinar 10 years ago, but there's a handout included here. And it has a ton of reading. If you find yourself working with maps are in charge of maps and you have questions about how to handle those maps and just the real nitty gritty of dealing with maps. And I think that's one of the things that I want to point out. In particular, map librarianship of the book by Mary Lars guard is invaluable. I, as someone who came into this position without experience in collection management and just anything to do with handling maps it saved me a number of times and I recommend it really So yeah with that I will wrap things up and I love to hear any questions and I have. Thank you Kevin. This was great. And I welcome any chats you can also raise your hand. And I believe we can allow you to speak. If you do raise your hand, and then you can ask a question. I'm going to have that up and ready. Kevin, can you tell me, while people think of questions. I'm thinking back to the digital project that you talked about at the beginning of your presentation the serial set maps that you digitize. I want to talk a little bit more about like some of the nitty gritty details of that project, like, how did you. Did you, I imagine use an index, or you may have used redux to find the maps that you wanted to digitize. And how did you actually go about doing it was it something that you did in house. You know, a dedicated set of like staff members to do this, or did you, how did the, how did you like fund it, you know, some of those little details about that project would be really helpful to me because I'm trying to think of. We did a serial set map project at the University of Colorado Boulder. What we did do was any digitization work we just kind of preserved and isolated the maps but I think that would be a natural next step but understanding some of the issues or barriers that might come up in that process would be helpful to. Yeah, that's a really great question. And so we did all of the work for the serial set project in house. Everything preservation, location, digitization repair all that's and it was honestly done a huge, basically all the work was done by students, some really dedicated student employees. And this was under the under the leadership of Suzanne Reinman, John Phillips, especially John Phillips towards. The last few years he was working and he really focused on the digital map collection. And I know we started the early chunk of the serial set. We relied on an existing index. I think it was created, I want to say by someone at KU. I cannot remember her name, but I know that was an invaluable resource. So in the search, but then we when we reached the point that we had gone beyond the timeframe of that index. That was when things slow down quite a bit. And basically it was a function of, of john Phillips, we think through volumes and using using the this index, but not totally relying or not maybe fully trusting anyone else to go through each of these volumes and flagging relevant maps, and then taking those to our students and saying here we need this removed we need need this repaired we need this encapsulated in mylar. And then from that taking preparing metadata for those that's another great pastime of john's was taking, taking maps and creating the most detailed metadata you've ever seen for these collections so truly he he did an incredible amount of work on these. And since I've been here we it's mainly been a focus of how can we sort of massage this metadata how can we shape it and sort of form it. And then I oh yeah I should also mention in terms of funding we've been really generously funded by a private foundation in Oklahoma called the mccaslin foundation. They are big benefactors of universities and libraries across the state of Oklahoma in particular, but they. They gave us several grants to pursue this serial set map work and that's that's how we were able to get this done because otherwise. Yeah, the amount of student time was hundreds and hundreds of hours. Yeah, that's about do you have an estimate of how long it actually took. Well I know we had this the last grant we had was a about two and a half or three years sort of start to finish. So I think maybe the actual grant project was two years. And that was to cover basically from the end of the long 19th century so somewhere around me World War one up through the present in terms of maps of Oklahoma and serial set, which maps just in general the the presence of serial set does decline over time during the 20th century I think just because as other sources have sort of taken off, especially once you get into like the 1560s 70s in particular things start to. It becomes way less common. So we covered a lot more ground in terms of like we're able to quickly get through though because the previous. 150 years because we included the American State papers of going back in a pre pre serial set. That took, I think the initial grant for that may have been 2006 and was ongoing for at least the nine years before I got here and then we were continuing on so a very, very long term project. Thank you. Any other questions, I have others, but I want to let others ask to. I just put my email in the chat in case anyone just wants to get in touch offline here. And I encourage any of you if you aren't a member of McGirt. We know that there is a lot of crossover between McGirt and Godard. And I encourage anyone who has responsibilities or just interest in maps to consider joining. There's also the Western Association of map libraries which is outside of a la but it's all it's a fantastic group of maps. I have associated professionals and I know we have several gov docs folks who are a member of whammy. And so that's another place where you can talk to people much more knowledgeable than me and learn and ask questions and all that sort of stuff. Well, I'll call it there. So thank you so much Kevin, this is really helpful. I have ample notes. I'm going to be following up with you in the future. I'm also kind of poking around with Explorer here and enjoying myself so I am going to share my screen really quick so that I can offer everybody. The following QR code so we are soliciting feedback on our presentations and the webinar in general. So please scan this QR code to provide feedback. You can see all of our great webinars on YouTube. There's a bit Lee go door help YouTube is the link for that. If you would like to see any specific programs coming up please contact me. And if you are interested in joining me as a member of the go door help committee, I would be happy to have you as an incoming chair. It's great work to have I had a lot of fun doing it last year. I'm really enjoying myself this year. It's nice to have this excuse to really sit down on a monthly basis and learn something and really engage with colleagues across the country so please do. Let me know if you would like to volunteer to work with me. And thank you very much, Kevin, and everybody for attending. Have a great day. Thank you.