 Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the original gangsters podcast. I'm Jimmy Buccellato here at the new command center with our engineer Ben and we have Scott Bernstein joining us via camera. Hey, Scottie. I just want to thank everyone for tuning in and thanks for listening and please subscribe to our channel. You can subscribe to the audio on Spotify, Google podcast. We're on Apple podcast. We also have our YouTube channel. So please subscribe, please like, please spread the word. I mean, right now, that's the best way for everyone to find out about us is through grassroots support. So we appreciate that. We're very honored to have a special guest. Rita Gigante is joining us. Hi, Rita. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we really appreciate your time and Rita wrote the book The Godfather's Daughter, an unlikely story of love, healing and redemption. And the reason why it's titled The Godfather's Daughter is because her father was Vincent, the chingigante that was his nickname. And I think most people watching this show or listening to this show, of course know who that is. He was a legendary figure in the New York underworld. He was boss of the Genevieve family for a long time. A lot of different things we can talk about with him. But I think what I want to start with though is asking Rita, what inspired you to document and write this story because you could have just kept this to yourself or maybe some family and friends. But instead, you decided to document your life story and share it with others. What inspired you to write this book and tell your truth? By the time I was beginning to do my work, which is for those who don't know, I'm a psychic medium healer. And around the age of 25, 26, I really started to begin to feel that I knew I had these gifts. I didn't know how I was going to use them. But what happened was once I was able to connect to my, let's say my guides or my teachers or the masters in the spirit world, they were the ones that actually came and told me because I had asked a long time back, I said, you know, I don't know what I want to do for a living, but I know I want to help people. So show me what I'm going to be doing to help people. And that led to a series of events that brought me to where I am today as a psychic medium healer. But it was them who came to tell me begin to write your story down because you're going to write a book. Now, I, you know, I'd love to read. I had no clue about how to write a book. And the only thing they told me was just begin with an experience that you had and then let it take a life of its own. And don't worry about putting it in an order or, you know, you don't need to know the name of it even you don't need to know anything. You just begin to write. Now that was 15 years before I actually wrote the book. So what inspired me was number one, they came and they told me that this book was going to help the multitudes of people. That in of itself, I was in. The second thing was it was so cathartic for me to write it. And because it just brought me tremendous healing and a sense of freedom that I had never experienced before. And I didn't even have to publish it, they said. They just said I was going to write it, but my assumption was I was going to publish it. And in the end, they gave me the choice. And I said, absolutely, this is not just for me. This is my book. All I did was take something personal and render it universal so that everybody can experience it and everybody can take away from it whatever they needed to help themselves. So that's that was the inspiration behind it. So I like you're getting the best of both worlds, not only is it therapeutic for yourself, but it can potentially help others. And I mean, I definitely want to talk about your father soon, because I know what our audience is going to be interested in that. But something, one thing that I take away from your book, though, is that if you're growing up in this environment where there's this nervous energy, because I think anyone can relate to this, you don't have to be the daughter or son of some big shot. If you're surrounded by this nervous energy or anxious energy, you can internalize it and then have some issues with your own physical well-being, your own mental health. So do you want to talk about that a little bit in terms of your experiences growing up in this household? Nothing to do with mobster stuff, but just the type of nervous energy that you are around. Maybe you can describe it better than I can, but I'm referring to it as nervous energy, but growing up in that environment and then internalizing it and having your own health issues. Sure. So for me, for those who don't understand this, I'm going to explain that. For me, I'm a highly sensitive. So my sensitivity in my world is called an empath. So I can feel and experience things at even a higher or heightened level, we'll say, than most people on a daily basis. So if you have anxiety and I don't protect my own energy, I can pick your energy up and carry it. And so I remember as early as five years old, carrying my mother's energy and her anxiety and her depression and carrying the rest of the family really, because I didn't understand what was going on. And it was scary not to understand what was going on. But yet knowing and not knowing how I knew this back then, but knowing you don't ask questions, you just, you know, you just, this is what it is. And that's it. So not being able to really ask questions, not knowing what dad did, not understanding why my mom was depressed a lot or had anxiety and sometimes even panic. So I was taking on all of this, trying to help her. And I was feeling the panic and the anxiety. And then I couldn't even differentiate, which was mine and somebody else's. But this all prepared me to be the psychic medium healer that I am today. It's just that back then nobody really knew about this stuff. So nobody could really help me till I got into like my mid 20s. So it plagued me from the time I was five. And I'm, I mean, I don't get me wrong. There's still times I'm dealing with anxiety and panic. So it's a daily thing for me to have to get into my, you know, my center and be grounded and protect myself. So then coming from a family like this that, you know, there's numerous secrets. There's, you know, we don't talk on a phone, the phone is off the hook, the TV and the radio are on simultaneously, there's men walking in and out of my grandmother's apartment sitting at around, you know, a table, you know, taking orders, which I mean, that's what it looked like from my father, because they would each get up and whisper in his ear, you know, and then he would whisper back, or they would be writing notes on pieces of paper. And then, you know, in the end, when it was all said and done, everybody would get up, who either, you know, ripped up the paper, because the flushed it down the toilet and burnt it, you know. So I mean, I'm watching this, I'm seeing all of this, but, and like, I knew like my dad was important, but I didn't know what that meant, you know. I also knew he was very scary. When I was about five years old, I experienced him beating somebody. They didn't know I was there. They had no idea I was there. I was underneath my grandmother's dining room table. And again, the music was playing in the background, you know, the Italian music, and I hear all this commotion. And, you know, I can not, my father does not, you know, he doesn't speak above a whisper ever. So I hear the commotion, and I start to pull back underneath the table and like my hands are wrapped around my legs. And all of a sudden, I hear somebody being punched. I think just kept punching and he hits the ground, right? I'm like, I'm starting to shake now. And, you know, I have, I'm on a screen, but I have my hands around my mouth. And I know I can't say a word. I don't utter a word, but I can see the man hits the floor and the blood starts to trickle to me. And all I just see is the hand of this man hitting this other man. But the reason how I know it's my father is he has his pinky ring on. So I just, I hear the pounding and I see it and I see it. And I remember the last thing he did was he took his foot and he stepped on his face. And underneath, like in a whisper, he said to the guy next to him, I'm done with him, get him out of here. And I froze. That was it. And that that day began probably two weeks later, I had my first anxiety attack. Petrified that if I did anything wrong, I would, I could be beat. Because that's what kids, when they, when they have a vision like that, you know, first of all, it's trauma, right? Trauma goes into the body. The body doesn't process it. Anxiety comes up, right? And then it has to be processed out of the body. But back then, nobody knew how to do that. I didn't go to, I put myself in therapy at 19 years old, to start processing my shit. Rita, this is really, let me just interject and say this is, I can really relate to this right now. And it's incredibly commendable, because it can go the other way, just as easy. And I can just off the top of my head, talk about some crime families and some very prominent members of those crime families, who I've dealt with personally, whether writing books or whatnot. And they lost members of their family that weren't involved in organized crime. But mental health issues, I'm assuming, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'm assuming mental health issues that they picked up from that environment caused them to commit suicide. I mean, Nicky Scarfo, the godfather of Philadelphia, you know, when he's on trial, his son hangs himself. You know, in Detroit, we had an acting boss, concillary, Anthony Tocco, whose family that your family knew, because his father-in-law was Joe Profacci, the longtime New York godfather. And Anthony Tocco's son, 15 years ago, committed suicide. So it's commendable that you took a very negative situation and re-channeled that negative energy into helping people and helping yourself overcome anxiety. And I can speak for myself. My battle with anxiety has been a lifelong issue that I've dealt with. And it's for real. And I think people sometimes look at depression and anxiety and, oh, you're just worried or you're just sad. And it's not that simple. Right. They have no clue. There are some people that completely know it because they experienced it. And my wife is a very even-killed person. And she could not understand panic. And I would try to explain this to her, but really couldn't until she experienced it once, one day. And then she said to me, oh my god, she goes, I said, yeah, welcome to my world. I said, this is, if I don't continually help myself. And every time I help somebody else, it helps me heal. Every single time I can feel it. It's just like a mutual effect that it has. Sorry, Rita. No, go. Go. You don't have to look far for art imitating life or life imitating art. You go to the most popular television show, maybe of all time, The Sopranos. And the main character, who's a New Jersey mob don, has major issues with panic attacks. Right. Right. I've never seen my dad have one, but I've seen my mom. But then again, I didn't see my dad as regularly as I would have liked to. But he was a very religious man, that I can tell you. He said five rows a day. So it's interesting the dichotomy between being who he was and being a very religious person. So, you know, when I talk about my book and I talk about my story, most people don't, they think they're going to get, you know, the Godfather's daughter version of, we'll say, the Godfather movie. But really, this is about the subtitle. It really is about the love, the healing, the redemption. It's about forgiveness. It's about compassion. You know, it's about all these things that, that I want people to understand that if they don't address that, they will physically be ill from it. I am, you know, living proof of that. And I was tired of being sick. I didn't want that anymore. So. Yeah, I'd like to ask you a follow up to, you said around 19 is when you sought out professional help, because I can understand you're experiencing this, you know, beating and how traumatic that would be. But at the same time, I have, I think you correct me if I'm wrong, that you're also probably thinking, but there's a sense of normalcy to this because what I don't have anything else to compare this to, like this is just what's happening. Certainly it seems bizarre and unsettling, but this is what I know. So would you say like, it was around your teenage years, did you become more aware of like, maybe this wasn't normal. Maybe it's what I experienced, but like, this was, this was, you know, excuse my language, but this is fucked up. Like, was that around the time you started to become self aware of that? Honestly, it was even earlier than that. But I just never voiced it to anybody. I'm like, this is not right. Something's just way off here. And but being coming from a family like this, Italian Catholic, very, very, we're very connected, we'll say, and rooted to each other. So, you know, he was my father. I loved him. So and I would, I would never, you know, run and tell someone, listen, do you know what my father does? Or it just, it just wouldn't have happened. The loyalty was to him, you know, and, and to our family. And I still stand by that today, even though I don't condone any of it. They're still my family. And I still love them. So I needed to make, you know, I needed to make amends with all of this with him, with my mother, with, you know, whoever was involved. And that's what I began to do. And I realized, honestly, when I went, I had dinner at a friend's house at a very, you know, I play with friends on the block, right? That those were the days you could keep your fucking doors open and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. So, you know, the kids would play in the street, we didn't have Nintendo or this or that, you know, all these other games that they have today. So I was just eating dinner at a friend's house and it was, you know, I was friends with their, they had three daughters and I had their mother was my tutor, you know, and I got to sit with a family and see for the first time what it was like to have dinner with a mom, a dad, and three girls. And I got to tell you, never in my life, I was stunned that this man, the father, would ask me questions about my day and how my day was. And we had sports in common. So he would ask me about sports. And I would be like, fascinated by this, like how, and I'm watching him interact with his daughters. And I'm like, this, I don't, like it's just me and my mother, like, and then when I would go to the city to have dinner with him, it wasn't like this at all. If I got 10 words out of him, it was a lot, you know. So I didn't have to send anything to anyone about it. I was just like, oh my God, I was right. Like, this is our way. Is it really maybe the right way or the best way, but it was our way, you know. And so I wouldn't say nothing's right or wrong. Like, people always ask me about that. Like, what do you, what do you think right and wrong? I said, no, no, there's gray everywhere. There's gray everywhere. Yeah, that's how you're raised. But but you also have to have your own mind, you know, and your own heart and things that you believe in no matter how you're raised. Because you know, we can blame our parents from, you know, forever for shit. But I said, no, it's I got to be me. You know, I got to be me. So I know what a very young age. So I'd like to follow up with that. Like, at what point, not not even talking about like, like mafia stuff, but at what point are you aware that your father someone's significant? Maybe you don't quite understand the underworld stuff. But like, this is this he's an important person with a lot of responsibilities and a significant person. Would you say that was pretty early on that you I would say that at 16. I mean, at 16 is when I knew for sure, because I experienced something that I can tell you about. But I knew before that I just didn't know what it was. So at 16, there was a lot of rumors going around about my family. There were kids that couldn't hang out with me. And there were kids that could hang out with me. My mother made very few friends. But the ones that you made were good people. They were Italian, they understood, you know, they never asked or talked about it. But it was just an understanding kind of thing. So, but there are a lot of rumors going around. And this one girl, she was really, you know, calling me a mafia princess. And, you know, all this shit was going around the school. And I'm like, I just had a bad day. And I had just had it. And I was walking in the hallway with my friend. And I said, let me know when she goes into the bathroom, because every day they would love to, there was three girls, they would always go into the bathroom, smoke, you know, blah, blah, blah. So we were watching out for them. And then she's in the bathroom. So I said, okay, you stand out here meeting, stand outside the bathroom door. I went in the two girls that wasn't the girl that was talking about me came out of the stalls. I said, get out. So they left. And then she came out, she knew it was me because she knew my voice. And when she came out of the stall, I said to her, I don't know who the fuck you think you are. I said, but if you say another word about my family again, she went to open up her mouth and I took my hand, I wrapped it around the back of her hair. And I just took her down right onto the sink. And I busted her eye open here. And then I just, my friend opened the door, she goes, hurry up, they're coming, they're coming. And I just said to her, never again. And I walked out, never gotten trouble, never understood why until after the fact was not called down to the principal office, nothing. I went home with blood, I didn't even go home. I went, I left school with blood on my hands, my shirt, everything. And I went to a friend's house, friend of the family. And I said, I need to know what's going on. What is this? Why are they calling me this? I don't understand. And she was shocked that I didn't know. And she sat me down and told me the whole story. Well, most of it. And then in a split second, even with all the anxiety and the panic and the sickness that I had growing up, all the pieces of the puzzle, boom, snapped into place. And then I understood why I was so anxious. And I was like, holy shit. So in one breath, I felt like, wow, we're really protected. Like he's the shit, you know? And we're, and in the other breath, I'm gone. Yeah, but they could take him away at any second, like the FBI could come in and take him at any second, let alone maybe another family that wouldn't be happy with him and try to, you know, take him out or something. And then it was a whole other set of anxieties, you know? So there was a release or a relief from finding out, because then I understood why I was so anxious. But then all these other anxieties on top of that came. Then not to mention the fact that I know at the age of 11, I'm gay. Now, what do I do with that? Right? Especially in that environment, maybe not the most tolerant, open-minded environment I'm assuming, right? Not at all. Not at all. And my mother who became, you know, to accept it as time went on was more afraid about my soul because of the Catholic religion than she was about anything else, you know? Because she loved my wife. Before she left this earth, anybody I was with, she welcomed in. So I came out at 19 to the both of them. That didn't go over well. Jump back in, you know, jump back in the closet, came out again at 24 to my mother and I says, I can't do it anymore. I said, I'm physically ill because I have to keep a lie. I can't lie anymore, I said. Now, the lie, you know, not being able to speak my truth, all my issues were in my throat, all up a respiratory. And one right after the other, one antibiotic right after the other, I was, it destroyed me. And I said, I am done hiding. I cannot do this any longer. So I said, tell him, don't tell him. I don't care. She goes, no, I'm not telling him. The rest of the family goes, no, I'm not telling him. So and, and, you know, it again, it was one step further for me to become who I needed to become in this life. So so many people asked me, would you want to change anything? And I tell them, not a fucking thing. I would go back and do it all over again to be where I am now. Yeah, I've heard you speak to that before. And I think that's interesting because I think as painful as some of those experiences were, you wouldn't have the same insight and the same gifts that you have now, right? If you had not gone through those as difficult as it was, you'd be a different person and maybe not a person who is as insightful and a person who's able to help others, right? 100%. I could, I could have went in many different directions, including, you know, alcohol abuse or drug abuse or anything like that. And I, I knew though, I, that wasn't for me. I knew that from a young age. I can't imagine having the kind of revelations that you had to endure at a young age. I mean, I can have this, you know, the tiny slightest understanding of it, but nowhere near what you went through. I had a grandfather who while not being a gangster or a criminal was best friends with a number of the highest ranking Jewish criminals in Detroit. And when I'm growing up, you know, from the ages of, you know, five, six, seven, all the way into my 20s, these are just my grandpa's friends. I didn't really, I knew they were gamblers, but then when I started into this career of mine, and I start diving into FBI files, all these guys that I've been around my whole life, popping up mug shots. One of these guys was a suspect in two murders. So it, for me, I kind of had that, Oh my God, all these guys have been around since I, this is when I was about 25, 26, 27. But that's nowhere near. That was my grandfather and that was my grandfather's friends. I can't imagine having it from your perspective growing, being like so close to the flame and having to have, nobody's sitting you down and telling you this is the way it is and this is what you should know. And last thing you said, when you were 16, you went to ask somebody, but it's all up to you to figure out. And I can't imagine how that stems or your anxiety gets rooted in all of this confusion and misinformation or just uncertainty. A lot of uncertainty. It was, so when, when, when I finally knew, like I said, there was a real relief. And the guys that were, that he surrounded himself with were nice guys. You know, I mean, they, they were very respectful. They were very nice. They would be there for the holidays if we had holidays. So they were just friends. They weren't and, and, you know, some of them were like family to us, you know, Rita, can you name names? I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. But like, was that Tony Salerno of your house? I mean, no, no, no, I don't even know if people would know the names, but um, probably best if I don't, if that's okay. No, it's all right. The reason you throw out Salerno was because, you know, for the mafia enthusiasts and historians, for a long time, people assumed that Tony Salerno was the guy that was running the Genovese. When in reality, your father was pulling the strings and that didn't really come out until later in your father's life. Yeah. And I probably, even if he was around, I probably wasn't around when he was, you know, because don't forget I was the youngest. Yes. So, and I came, my oldest sister is 15 years older than me and my youngest, the youngest right above me is 10 years older than me. So they may have witnessed things that I didn't even witness, you know. Um, but what I did witness was enough and it, you know, it created that kind of turmoil in me, but, but the good news is I was able to little by little get over the, you know, some of them were small hills, some of them were mountains. What was the dynamic between your mom and your dad? Was it very, your mom was very, I don't know, was your mom very subservient? No, I don't. You gave your, you gave your dad back shit? Like, because I know there's some really tough SOB mob guys whose wives will be just as, you know, a spitfire with, with the, with the husband and nobody else could talk to the husband like that except for the significant others. Sometimes it's, you know, well, listen, my mother was what you would call a good girl, you know, she was a very loving energy. She loved my father even though he did what he did. And I don't, I'd hate to say subservient because she loved to cook for him. She loved to do his clothes. She just wanted to be his wife. There was no like, you know, could she give him shit? I've heard her, you know, I've heard her give him shit sometimes, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that often and it wasn't like you always see the makeup. They were very affectionate with each other, you know, so they would always make up and get over it and all that, but she just wanted to be a good mother, a good wife and she came from that type of family. You know, this is what the rest of us, well, me, I didn't, you know, I knew I wasn't going to be that, you know, so, but it was expected of the women in the family, you know, you get married, you have kids, you take care of your mother, then maybe you can have a life. Maybe. So I totally went completely in the opposite direction, you know, and I was happy. I was happy I did that. I could have, I could have laid down and said, you know what, this is, this is what I have to do because if I don't, but I couldn't, there was no way, could not live that life and I tried. You know, something that also strikes me is interesting, you know, we're talking about your experiences as a teenager and a young person and in one case you were, at least that we know about, you were being bullied and how you responded. One thing that I was interesting to find out is that your father of all people went through his own experiences with being bullied, which just blows up my mind because he's like one of the toughest dudes that we know about in this world. But you mentioned that when he was a young person, he was actually chubby as a young person and that he would be bullied. I find that just interesting. Can you talk about that and how you heard those stories and how he was able to transcend that, overcome that and be someone who was confident and assertive? Yeah, I think it's what, part of what drove him because you know, when he was young, he was heavy and my month, I mean, they know each other since they were babies, my mother and father, right? So 12 years old, like they're like, you know, they're hanging out and the older guys would like, you know, rank on him saying that he was fat, he was this, he was that, and he was, he used to make him upset, used to make him really upset and angry. And, and then, you know, when it became a boxer and he was a good boxer, when he became a boxer, he was able to take it out in the ring and, you know, he was slimmed down and he looked great. But that whole energy behind someone putting him down stayed with him. And, you know, it makes someone insecure, right? So what do you want? You want power. And when he got into that work, when they took him under, you know, when Vito took him under his wing, he went, he, when he started to feel that power, that felt good, you know? So all the money in the world really didn't, he wasn't fazed by it, but the power that drove him. You know, you mentioned it and I never really thought about that, about the change in appearance of your father. But now that I think about it, I can think of pictures that I saw of him in the fifties, when he does look chunky. And then when you see the pictures of him in the seventies, eighties and nineties, he's thin, pretty thick. And you never really put two and two together until you just said that. Yeah. Yeah. So he was chubby as a very young kid. Then he slimmed out when he did boxing. Then he got real. He was over 300 pounds at one point, but he had a heart condition. So once he started, you know, eating well and exercising and all of that because of his heart, he slimmed down completely. He was very meticulous with his food once he realized he had to take care of his heart. And it's interesting you talk about the power because correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that he did not live this like opulent lifestyle. Like we think of someone like podcast Alana who had the so-called White House and the big mansion in Staten Island. Is that, is that correct that your dad actually, you wouldn't know that he was as wealthy and powerful as he was? No. Just running into the guy and seeing how he lived. He lived in a forum apartment most of his life. And of course we lived out here in New Jersey, but we, my mom's house in 1967 was like $63,000. It was a beautiful house, but it, you know, compared to what the houses are today, it was, it was not, you know what I mean? It wasn't anything spectacular, but my mother loved the energy of the house and she could have her choice of anything she wanted. And, but she wasn't, again, she wasn't that person. It was never about that, you know, the money. She was a saver. She was going by costume jewelry, like never even, you know, only wore real jewelry if she was going to a wedding, you know, and people would assume anyway, even if you wore costume jewelry, they would assume it was real. Sure. You know, so, but my dad, he lived, you know, I, there was a time where I watched him, you know, go from his black pants, t-shirt, you know, t-shirt and then a shirt on top to bathrobe slippers and pajamas. Yeah. And then that was it. Once the bathrobe slippers and pajamas, that was it. I don't think I ever saw him dressed again after that. Yeah. I don't, I don't want to get, you know, I don't want to get too personal or you feel uncomfortable talking. I mean, you just brought it up. So, but, so how, for people that might not know, I'm assuming everybody knows this, but, you know, Vincent Giganti became famous in the New York tabloids throughout the 80s and 90s for feigning mental mental illness and kind of dovetails with some of the stuff that we're talking about. It was known to walk around the streets in a bathrobe pretending like he didn't really know what was going on. In reality, he was as sharp as a tack and it was a brilliant tactical maneuver because it kept him on the street probably an extra 20, 25 years. How aware of you, how aware were you of any of this going on? And if you did become aware, was it humorous to you? Was it upsetting to you? Was it just? There were times where, listen, I've experienced, you know, a lot. So there would be like, I'll give you an example, you know, one of the doctors would come and evaluate him, right? And of course he'd be in a bathrobe, pajamas, slippers, right? He's sitting at the dining room table, cartoons are on in the background. He's mimicking the cartoons. He's telling the guy, selling the doctor, God told me to say this, you know, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. So and at some point, you know, you have to turn around because some of it's funny, right? And so I'm like, either my head is underneath the table or I'm just turned around and I'm trying not to friggin laugh. And then there were other times where I'd have to walk with him in the street and he'd say to me, you know, like, hold my arm, like hold me up and I'm thinking to myself, you know, I'm all of five, one. He's like six feet tall. Like how am I holding him up? You know what I mean? Like this is like so and people would walk by and sometimes they would tip their hat because they would know it's him and they would respect him and do that. And then other people would be looking at us like we're crazy because he stands there talking to like a tree or a parking meter or something or whatever. And I'd be like, listen, fuck you, you don't know my life. You know what I mean? Like wanting to protect him. So like all this shit back and forth would go in my head. But in the end, he was still my dad, you know? And there were times, very few, but I have to tell you, there were times where he would come out of character. And one of them was he loved Elvis Presley. So if I put on an Elvis song, he would get up two left feet and all and he would shuffle and try to dance, you know? And for like 10 minutes, I could get him out of character and just to be a dad, you know? And those were the times where I soaked it up because I was like, there he is. You know, there's the human that I'm looking for. And, you know, other times where I didn't feel well, he would rub my back or my head and I'd fall asleep, you know? These were very endearing things about him. He was very charismatic. People loved him just because he was a nice man, you know? And because he protected that neighborhood. He paid for people's rents if they couldn't be paid. He gave them food if they didn't have food, you know? So I try and explain to people, they say to me, how do you forgive all of that? And I say to them, I have to see that human side of him. I have to see what drove him to it. I have to get, I have to see myself in him. I have to put myself in his shoes and see it from his perspective. That's how I have to do it. The one thing that took me a long time to get past was having to, when he would check himself into the mental hospital for maybe three weeks at a time because the FBI was close, this was very difficult for me because not only is he feigning the illness, but now we're on the third floor of the hospital that has all these people that have these illnesses, bipolar, schizophrenia, you name it, they're walking around, you know? And he's walking around that way, you know what I mean? And then we would go into the room and we'd sit down and within 10 minutes, because my energy was so bombarded from walking through a hallway, I was out like a light asleep. I couldn't even it was so difficult. But it was like, you know, there's people that are really ill. Like you're making a mockery out of them. It took me a while to get past that. So people say to me, a lot of times when I say that, people say to me, but you don't like question the murders. I'm like, no, that's not it. It's not that I condone that. It's just I wasn't witness to that piece. I was witness to this. And that was hard, you know? Yeah, I actually hadn't thought about that, that the the ruse that how that that's actually insensitive to to people who actually were suffering from those kinds of illnesses. I hadn't even occurred to me. That's a really good point. I mean, he has a daughter that has tremendous anxiety and panic attacks, depression, you know? So I mean, that's that in itself is enough. You know what I mean? Like that's I think some other anecdotes though, I can think of one specifically I want to get your comment on that speak to that do speak to his human side. And what I always go back to, and I've recalled this anecdote on a number of interviews and I think it really speaks to his mindset and in a positive way was when he had a meeting with John Gotti and John Gotti had just inducted his son the week before and he's bragging about it to Chen thinking the chin your dad was going to be, you know, slap him on the back and say congratulations, John. And instead, he kind of not snap, but made a comment to John Gotti like, well, I'm sorry that you did that. That's unfortunate. Like why would you want to bring your own kid into this mess of a life that we have for ourselves? And I don't think there's a lot, but I think there is a lot of those types now in the 2000s. But I think when your day was making those comments in the 80s, he was ahead of the curve because most guys in his position were making sure that their sons were going to continue the dynasty. Absolutely. No, I don't want this for my kids. Why would I want this for my kids? You're crazy for wanting this for your kids. And to me, that speaks, it's a microcosm of the difference between your father as a powerful criminal overlord and John Gotti. And one was, I guess more famous, but lasted like five years and died in prison after 20 years. And your dad did it a different way and had a much longer run. And yes, he died in prison, but there's a much shorter time in prison. And I don't think there's even a comparison in those two people, even though a lot of times John Gotti gets the headlines. But your father had really the right perspective, at least in that regard, I think, was ahead of the curve. John got a lot of notoriety because he was, he wore $3,000 suits and he flaunted the lifestyle and he thought he was untouchable. And so he brought a lot of attention to himself. I mean, I'm sure a man walking around in the bathrobe brings a lot of attention too, but it was a different perspective back then because nobody wanted to bring attention like John Gotti did. And so, you know, it's a shame, and he, unfortunately, I mean, he died a very painful death, John. So my dad, you know, he basically filled up, as long as filled with fluid, and he passed in a very, very like within 30 seconds, it was done. And I remember him when he came to me and spoke to me about it. He said, I wasn't afraid. He said, I had maybe 10 seconds of what's happening. And then he realized that he just kind of surrendered to it, you know. But not before he made some changes here that really started to pay back a karmic debt that he's still doing. And I think it's wonderful that he was able to get to that point. You know, we so he mentioned, John Gotti, I'm curious, I know there's some other names we'd rather not bring up. But you mentioned Vito, who was his mentor. Did your father ever I don't know if he would if he would share that with you or if you just heard second hand. Can you can you comment on his how he felt about Vito Genovese? That's obviously someone who our audience is familiar with. Yeah, Vito, like I said, Vito took such a liking to him and my dad respected him. But he didn't do business like Vito. Vito was, he was very paranoid from what I'm told. And he ran things not the same way my father did. But but he respected him. He loved him. You know, they were in prison together. And Vito died and and slowly but surely my father rose, you know. So they had very different ways of doing the life. But I think there is a connection. Maybe they had different approaches and different approaches. But I will say that from the time Vito Genovese was leading the family to throughout your father's tenure, this was this Genovese organization was looked at at a much higher level of more prestigious, more elite than any of the other crime families that people have consistently said that is the Ivy League of the New York mob. That is the kind of gold standard of how you do business in that world. Right. Stable too. There was a code of ethics. My father filed them to a T. He was a very fair man. I mean, he really he could have ran anything he wanted to in this world. He was smart enough. He just got taken in, you know, by that life. And that's what he chose. But he was brilliant in a lot of ways, not so much book smart, but in other ways. For younger guys that might not understand the scale at the time that your dad was was running things, you're talking about an organization that has probably a thousand over a thousand people that you're in charge of. It's not a group of 20 people. You're managing hundreds of persons in terms of personnel. You're managing hundreds of hundreds if not thousands of people. Yep. And not just in New York City. Right. So, you know, it's just different if you're someone that's in your 20s or early 30s now and you've only been kind of following this stuff for the last 10, 15 years. It's a lot different now. These organizations are now kind of if if you're in New York, they might be in the hundreds. But any other city you're talking about groups of, you know, 20 to 50, sometimes even less. But in the heyday, these were like, you know, fortune 500 companies in terms of size and scale and reach. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they had their hands and a lot of different things, a lot of different things. So he, but he, I'll never forget the words he'd say to me. Look at that. He'd say, we're watching the news. He'd say, see that White House, he says, there's the organized crime. He always said it to me. The government is the biggest model of the organized crime. Yeah. And I'd say to him, I'll sign that. All right. Listen, I get it. You know, look at what we're looking at today. I mean, it's craziness right now. Well, I want to ask you another person about, and we mentioned Vito, but did you ever get a sense from your father how he felt about Frank Costello? Obviously, our audience is probably aware of the, you know, the incident there. But my understanding, you could correct me if I'm wrong, is that he actually liked Frank, that this was back to the old, it's business, not personal. Is that your sense? Yeah, it was that, you know, we've often thrown around, and I've yet to ask him this, and I will eventually, but I've often thrown this around in my head, because I know he did. He liked him, and it wasn't personal. But the fact that he called his name, and he moved his head, you know, like he turned his head, and then he shot, and he missed them. He just grazed them. I wonder sometimes, did he do that, you know, on purpose, because he didn't really want to do it, you know? So now, the fact that nothing happened to him, my father should have been dead. I mean, that's the way it worked, right? He fucked up. But Vito, again, loved him. So he was spared, because he knew my father was going to be something. And that's, you know, that's what, and of course, Frank stepped down, he didn't, he didn't know the word, he, you know, he left, and never said who it was or anything like that. So, yeah, that's So I don't ask a follow up to that about your experiences also growing up in that environment. So there, so your, some of your family members are explaining things to you, you're picking up on some things from your dad. Growing up Italian American, you know, you're not supposed to even use the m word. And, and did they, how did they articulate them? I'm interested in this as a social scientist, sort of an anthropological lens here. Did they, did they articulate this as this is our, our way of life, because they probably don't say it's this is organized crime. This is mafia. They say this is the family. This family. Okay. Family, you know, this is, this is the family that we had, he had three families. So, and they came first, you know, that lifestyle came first. Yeah. So yeah, that's, we never called it anything else. We never really called it anything to be honest with you. But so many people called it different things, you know, and it was whatever you felt comfortable with, I guess, I don't know. Some of it sounds worse than other names, but it's all the same, all the same stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I was just curious, because, you know, you think of the, just a pop culture reference in the Godfather movie, the he Michael remember explains it to his fiance. Well, you have to understand my father's just an important person. He's responsible for a lot of people. It doesn't mean he's a gangster. Right? I mean, you actually lived like, right, like the Godfather's fiction, but you actually grew up in that environment. So I was wondering if it was a sort of a similar, like, he's just important. He's responsible for a lot of people, but don't believe I got told, you know, he's sick. And you just if anybody is tell them your father's thick. That's what I got called. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll tell us about like, how can people find out more about like, where can they find your book? How can they find out more about the projects you're working on? And, you know, do you have a website? I mean, how can our audience find out more about you? Sure. Sure. The website is readageaganti.net. And my email is readageagantipsychic at Gmail. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. So a lot of times I, you know, if they want to subscribe to the to the email stuff, they'll get my information. I'll send out emails and they'll get my information that way. I do private events. I do all kinds of events with my work. I also work one on one with people. And the book is, I resurrected it now. It's up on Amazon. It's only in a paperback copy. So there's, there's still some leftover books from when Hay House had it. Amazon has it, but it's, they're not in good shape. They're, you know, they're, they're the hard copies. They're not in good shape. The one they want to look for is the paperback and it just has my picture on the back of the book. Okay. And if they want to, I'm sorry, if they want to sign copy, they can contact me and I'll get them a signed copy. Oh, nice. That's perfect. So do you have any plans for future projects, writing projects, another book, or what's on the horizon? I am. I am in the middle of another book. I am. So we're off to the races, off to the races with that. And I might, I might take you up on your offer of a private psych medium session. I'm interested in maybe reaching out to you in the near future and having a. Sure. Anytime, anytime. And I'd love to be back on the show at any, you know, if you guys want to do it again. This was a lot of fun. I think we got a lot of, a lot of insight into a lot of different layers of your life and layers of, of just life in general. I loved the first part of the conversation about mental health and, and whether it's universal. As Jimmy said at the start of the program, it doesn't just relate to the subject matter we're talking about. And then exactly be able to deep dive your life and your relationship with your father. I think a lot of people are going to really find this, this episode incredibly insight. Oh, I'm happy. That makes me happy. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me guys. Yeah, we appreciate that. We, and I, and we love your, and appreciate your candor because these are two subjects that a lot of people in your position would, would not talk about mental health a, and, you know, the world that your father was involved in. So for you to be this transparent and open and honest, it's really refreshing and we appreciate it. I'm sure our audience will too. That's great. Great. All right. Well, thanks everyone for watching and listening. Remember, please subscribe to us. Rita, thank you again very much. Good luck with, with everything. And we'll have you on again soon. I'm Jimmy Bucciolato, Scott Bernstein. We're off. Thank you guys.