 Parks and Recreation Advisory Board's order. We start with a roll call. Yes, Erin Angel here, Scott Conlon here. Jeff Ellen Bogan is not present. Manoj Gangwar is not present. Paige Lewis here. Nicholas Novello here. Dan Olson here and counsel liaison Tim Waters here. We'll go ahead with approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? If not, would you like to have a motion to approve the agenda? We approve the agenda as it is. Great. All in favor? Now we'll move to approval the previous months and minutes. So does anyone have any changes to the minutes that were shared? Motion to approve the minutes. I move to approve the minutes as presented. Thank you. Any second? I'll second that. All in favor? Anyone opposed? I'm abstaining. Okay, so we can go first to the public invited to be heard. Okay, Jonathan, can you look it up? I don't know who it is, but there's some that still want to. There's still one? Okay, we can start. Jonathan, will you stand for a minute? So I feel just sharing in here and add us, and you have three minutes. Okay, my name is Jonathan Javi. I'm on 506 Flickr Avenue. I'm coming just to two reasons to say thank you for having such an amazing call courses in Langmont. We use them all the time and all around this whole area is really appreciating that. We also hope that you guys can also look into more frivvy call courses opportunities because I think that's become a really popular thing for people as well as us old guys. I had kind of a bad experience at the rec center the other day. It was rather, I think, disheartening. It was in and around the volleyball that's going on. It's an interesting problem because it's a really great thing that turned into a really not so great thing. There's a new youth volleyball league at the rec center that's becoming quite successful and promoted a lot of new younger players wanting to play more. There's a, if you look in the the catalog, it says drop in volleyball on Tuesdays, I think Fridays or Monday, Mondays in the mornings and then Wednesday Fridays in the afternoon. And as one of the coaches for some of the youth volleyball players, one of the best teams, we had four or five kids from the group ask if they can go and join and they'll kick them there. And so for about a whole month of October, we went and played on Wednesdays and we had a really good time. We kept that really quite good. They met the other adult players and we went on Friday and they got kicked out, just flat out. You're not old enough to play, definitely. This is because some of the other players were there said this is adult and as a parent, it was like there's a sign right there on the wall that says drop in volleyball. And that's all it says. And then there's a thing yeah, it's all it says, drop in volleyball. So I asked, but what's the policy? How does that work? Because there seems to be lots of kids playing basketball there on their age of 16. How come they don't have to leave? They're just the volleyball kids. So there seems to be some application of policies or some disclarity in terms of why kids should be getting kicked out of the rec center during a drop in game when actually what's happening is that's an outside adult volleyball group has sort of taken over that night is now making sure that the other kids are either not welcomed. And I have a whole long video that I said, and some of the kids replied giving me a video of their feelings about this, and they're pretty put out at the whole thing. It was kind of sad. So what I hope is, and what I hope is the positive part of this is that these kids really want to play. And that there is a whole side with nothing going on. And we ask, could you just put up two minutes? It's not that hard. Just put up another net in the open gym space way on the left over there. So that there's enough place for all the people that are showing up now to play because it's making the adults mad. Because they're having to play with kids they don't want to play with. And the kids still want to play. And there's some of us adults who also want to play with the kids. And so we need we need there to be two nets up regularly on those open nights. I did not get a good response when I brought this up to the rec center themselves. And their whole statement is we don't have the staff to do that. Seems pretty easy to put up another bottle of that. So I would I would hope that there's some clarity on when you bring and you are bringing kids who are in the 14 to 16 ages, that when they have someone who's being their supervisor, they not get kicked out because they have a supervisor and that is the policy I do believe. I don't think people at the rec center know how to handle that. What happens when you have someone bringing up to go back as long as you're safe. Anything or feel just take that. Well, that's that's for you. What guys want me to speak to that? Sure. Okay, I'm not sure the procedure here. So I'm Ben Weigler. I'm the acting assistant regulation manager and made aware of your email today and made sure that we send it out to everyone here so they were able to take a look at that. And what limited resources lots of the that's that's kind of a simple thing there. How things went down, like work on that. But what I would really like to do is just talk to you about with you and Chris Cron who oversees the rec center directly what the opportunities are and to make sure that we're trying to accommodate as many people as we can with the resources we've got. So I'd like you to contact me and talk about this one. Yeah, I appreciate it. On the good news side, we're developing a park in Southeast Longmont that has kids disc golf. It's make shorter holes and potentially a little kids. And then we're finishing up in the spring renovations to Lou Miller Park, which is one of the prime disc golf courses around the city. So yeah, we run into some supply chain issues with that project. But we should have that buttoned up by May, June of 2023. So it's good to hear that we're still people are still interested in disc golf as we still have some out there. Oh, okay. Hi, my name is Abby. I live way up on the top of Magnolia County Road 68 J. And I wish parks were open and inclusive of all people at any time and prioritize people's interests such as disc golf or just outside area instead of we go ball courts in areas that don't people don't really know that. I also like to speak speak for a friend that is not here today. Sasha would like to say I like visiting parks at night to unwind, but the park next to me is close to sunset. Megan. I'm Megan. I live at 2228 with bracelet. And I just want to say that parks are really important to me because sometimes school gets too much and I just have to get out and get away. So I either take my bike or I take my dog or just myself alone and I just go to a park to try or any hiking trail that I can find to get away. And sometimes I bring a book with me and I can sit out there for a while, but it's getting winter. So I might not do that for a couple months, but the parks and the trails are very important to me and a lot of other people that I know from school can do the same. Lionel. Hi, I'm Lionel Nicley. I live around 751 West Hemlock Circle down in Lewisville. Right in the middle of the rush of fire out there. I have always used parks as a sort of cool down space. It's always been where I can go if family or friends or really anything gets too much to just sit there and enjoy peace and quiet and a sort of freedom from any other stresses or anxieties or anything like that. I would really like it if more parks prioritized just having some open space and native plants and just peacefulness instead of all just being like sport parks or sport fields or fields for specific activities. I obviously still think that we need a lot of those, but I feel like there should be more parts of the parks that are just, you know, peaceful. Jesse? My name is Jesse and I live in at one place at a cast of the drive in downtown Moffiette, and I use parks to go and do stress as well. I usually love sitting at the vegetable lake and sometimes just yelling into their business. Thank you. I don't have anything without a sign up. Is that okay? But thanks so much for taking time to come and try your thoughts about this. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Just stay as long as you want to stay one and be able to meet friends. Okay, so we'll tell this public provider to be heard and move to old business. Is that me? Yep, there you are. Each recreation facility, so my understanding and talking on the water stream, maybe helping with this is that the next discussion concerning the new tax is supposed to happen pretty quick. I think on the 29th of November. Yeah, so that's kind of where that sits. I will update as far as internally. I hope to have an RFP out from purchasing for the new feasibility study and an update to the parks program master plan this week, next week, at some point here, pretty close and get that going in January or something. That's where we're at with that. Do you have any questions on what remind you? Because we don't know the size of this budget for the proposed RFP, a 150,000 for feasibility study and 40,000 for the master plan update. Okay, so they're combined into one. The timing is still a valid issue a year from now, is that correct? Yeah, okay. And so we're hoping what I'm trying to project is that we have this information back by the end of spring, so in May. So this is like for a few months, is it? By the time this gets done, it's January and we got to be ready by April? Well, I'm hoping they have it done by May and get information and the council to use it as we formulate, this is my mind, as we formulate what the wording would look like for a recreation facility. And as part of the proposal is community meetings and talk to interest groups for the whole bit in those three or four-ish months. So if you remember the last time, we certainly similar to that, we want it to be as robust as possible, getting to as many groups as possible before looking for it at this point. Okay, good. I just want to be clear when I advertise to folks who bug me, that's the spring is when it's happening, right? Okay, so thanks. What will the outreach to groups that don't have access, have less government access be? Yeah, I really, I mean that's something I think is really important to me. I agree, because if this group has ideas, it's great, but we do have a fully filled out, we have all the positions filled for our public mission group right now, so we finally have people that kind of represent us and I know there will be some tasks to help with this piece, so they'll take it on the professional level, but I think sometimes that kind of can miss the pieces that we pick up in aid like this too. We'll certainly be talking with our internal departments, we're in touch with as many different community groups as possible to try to get the word out. Can you send that RFP to work off someone sent it to us when it goes up? Yeah. Just so we can get it. Cool, thanks. And then, so it's... Check check with purchasing on that then? Yep. Might we have to wait until after the contract for it? Not sure. Yeah, I don't know. Sure, there's... Can you fix an RFP? Yeah, I think... Oh, it's... The government rules are different than our profits, I'm not sure. Oh, you can tell us where it's posted. Or I can get it on Knet and share it with you. Rocky Mountain's been there. Yeah, Rocky Mountain's been there. Rocky Mountain's been there. There's some version of that, but yeah. Yes. Now, when the process starts, then it becomes... Right, let's see if that's... Any other questions? Thanks, Ben. That's been a complicated piece. There's been a lot of moving parts. There's been a lot of information. There's been a lot of deadlines going to go. So, Jeff and Ben have done a great job of trying to stand top this voice and definitely been involved in the process, but they've taken the lead. And when that comes to our example on the 10 and 9, what will the discussion be about? Well, first of all, as soon as I think I know what's up, it changes. So, I was in a meeting earlier today where Harold was in the meeting and I looked at Harold said the 29th. I think he said yes, but there are some things that can change. And I'm just assuming that Sandy Cedar will play a significant role in terms of the public deviation process. Questions like, what is that playing and what are the segments of the population and what's the approach and how much access would folks, you know, aren't typically engaged with what the city's doing. Those will all be... There's no... I don't know what's happening. Those are going to be central to the engaging process. I'm certain there'll be questions about polling as well. I don't know if you remember that. The last time we did this, the approach to polling that we took. And what we learned from that. But I'm certain all that will be part of the package. And whatever we see it, you know, we'll bring the questions. I'm certain Sandy will be... If it's Sandy who's doing the presentation, it may be somebody from the communications staff. They'll address most of those topics. They can anticipate what the questions are going to be. I'm certain they'll address them at the top. I mean, you know, we'll get into it. And just a reminder, some frankly, we can't talk about this, but at the appropriate time, it'd be good to have guidance for proud members about how we can engage in support of, you know, if it moves forward to be involved and what we can do really in what capacity. Project Manager approach, do you mind if I wanted that? Yeah, I can kick that off. And Steve's here to kind of... I think one more thing, before we leave this. Hey, I don't remember if you were in the room when we were... In the process of engaging the public, going through some things in the last ballot question, and I put the pool in this, so Dan was in the room, as I'm certain. But we had a room full of hockey advocates that night. You remember this? I remember the amp pool one in particular. I don't know if it was that package, but there was one night when we had a number of... It was standing remotely in this room. And it was the ICE community that was here. Oh, yeah, you're right. And we kind of went around the room and what the expectations were, or the best hopes of people. At the end of that conversation, I didn't hear a single word during that conversation about anybody having reached out to the school district. There was just no knowledge of what the school district would support. The assumption was that they would support a hockey program. Turns out, not so much. I think that's one of the reasons school district kept this at arm's length. But I did ask the question that evening. So what's your plan to get behind this? Well, what role are you going to play in helping to design and roll out a campaign? And the response was, don't lay that on us. My question was, well, who do you think is going to do that? The staff isn't going to do that. Your council members can't once we've put it on the ballot. And in my opinion, part of the reason that failed by 11 points or whatever is there was almost none of it. No campaign, right? Right. There was a small effort. Sharon O'Leary and a group got together and there were like eight and a half by 11 yards or something, very small yard size. But there was no really no campaign strategy. There was no messaging committee. There was no fundraising to get behind this. So when you ask the question rhetorically, what's a role for prep members? They're not going to ask. There will be been. And it's one thing, there'll be constraints on what you can do as a committee in terms of campaigning. There will be no constraints on what you can do as individuals. Or your ability to write letters to the edge or show up in the economy for the public. Somebody's going to have to provide leadership as well, both on a lot of campaign committee and all of that entails. Sorry. No, I think it's probably a good idea to be between staff and this group as we become, you know, just provide us information. You really get to push us out of the community for the interest that you will hear representing. Yeah, I have no idea what that is. I feel like last time I didn't really know what role we could play. I mean, I was new or I don't know what we could do. Me, we dropped, I talked to several different groups, but they were already in the pool folks and the hockey folks. But we didn't broaden our scope enough, a long shot. And this one has potential to be pretty broad. Correct. And what ends up being in it. And pretty big. Well, in the 20 year ago when we got the rec center built, I can recall being with my kids and we're putting things on maps and here's what we're going to design. I mean, it was huge. Was it the senior center, the old version in the senior center? And it was awesome. And there was, I mean, a room, there was 200 people in the room with kids all the way to elderly folks. And it was huge. And I mean, these people are all talking about it. And I didn't see that at all. That's what was that then? We'll do that again. We'll do that again. Yeah. We did that after the money was already approved for the rec center. Right. So what the rec center is going to be, there will be a process that we'll go through for that after the bonding or something along those lines ahead of time to get to that point. Yeah, actually that sounds like because when people see themselves having something potentially that they want. 2019 was over. Yeah, thank you. Right. That makes sense because it'll be four years with next year today. Yeah. David, I would suggest you and Jeff maybe talk about that because that's not anything I anticipate before the ballot because that takes staff time and money. We need to have a consultant on task to lead that process for us until after we have it. It makes sense when you say that we get it after the money is it because we had a hard cap. Here's what we get to spend and what are you going to buy in buying in all that kids and folks excited and maybe that's a before the issue this time to get again folks excited or this is what we're visualizing or I don't know. I can imagine that the cost very much money to get out gets into the huge pieces of paper. It just takes effort. It's the consultants or the folks. The assessments and analyses and things that that costs. I think one of my expectations of the consultant that we're going to get for feasibility study is we're doing feasibility on something. And they've got to get feedback on what that thing is. And so Oh, the meetings they get to that point. I don't know if it'll be as granular necessarily as that, but you need to know what the what the new rec center is. We need to get enough folks involved then. At least have that idea that so when we take that forward to council that here's what here's what the proposed package is from staff, the community and this this company that that we believe we need. And that's your point of the age. I think that we're looking for something broader. Last time it was competitive pool and ice. And so those two groups were heavily engaged in no one else. You know, as it turns out, there's a lot of conversation right. We're going to do better this. Yes, I agree. Okay. And you will keep this in the list too. Let's move on to private management capacity. Great. I will kick this off here. This is a conversation that really started it. As I talked to this group in the community about us getting parks built, getting parks renewed, and really the the neighbors, age ways of the call and say, when's that park that was supposed to be built going to get built? And I think I was pretty open to this group that to make sure it was known that when my part was getting that done, I felt that we needed to get some additional staff to do that. We took that through the budget process and that did not happen. Community and council members kind of then asked, well, how are we going to make this happen? And I think as we went through this process, one of the things that I'd like to start out is that Harold has really been looking at where we're at and what we need and what we've been doing and why that wasn't working and what other opportunities are out there. So we've had a chance to spend some time in a room with Harold and Joanie and Valerie, as I was going to say, Scott, our purchasing person to say, what have we been doing in the past that maybe could be done better now? And part of that is capacity but also is process too. And we're looking at how we do a better job of using what we have but also then looking at identifying needs as we build this process. So that's really not off the table, though there really are some pieces that Harold's been supportive in. Can we change process? Are there different ways of doing things? So you'd like to see eight parks, large trail segments, large projects really get completed in the next five years. So what the capacity we had was Steve and Kathy and Daniel taking on some of that work. That was a challenge. We could figure out how to quite get there. Now we're down Kathy, so it's really kind of pushing that. But Steve has gone out and gone to some trainings that you probably talked about a little bit as far as design build. But we've also gone back to Harold and said, here's what we think we can do, but we probably will need some additional support to get this done. So Steve done a pretty good job of I think making one page. We actually had a full board set up here with pages and stuff here. So let Steve kind of walk you through this. But again, I just want to make sure you know that even though we're at this point, we think those positions from Harold on down, there is a definite desire and direction to move getting part projects done. And this eight and eight is Steve will talk about for eight and five. This two projects does not need to block it. This ain't bringing 13 to Daniel's working. Is that Robert Lou Miller that Steve's working on? So we'll be working on other projects that are actually going through this as well. So Steve, did you need one of those for yourself? No, I've got one for you. You can share it too, because I have to see if that's what you're talking about. That's fine. So thanks, David. So yes, as you guys are aware, the way we've historically been doing projects is what's called a design bid build project. We identify a project with a designer. We go through a public process. We go to the council, make sure they're okay with the concept plan, master plan, whatever you want to call it. And then we design the whole thing using staff time and the consultants. And then we take that package, put it out to a construction bid. And these days, the process from when the design is done to when the contractor is under construction is typically about five months with the whole bidding process and that awarding process purchasing and staffing and resource challenges as well. And so getting the contracts through the city attorney's office takes time. The attorney's office has resource challenges. So that and then from that point of when you award the contract, depending on the size of the project, you're looking at 10 to 20 months, roughly for a construction contract, depending on the scale. What we've been finding out and doing a little bit of digging is that the design build process, which we have used minimally before, we did it for the Skate Park and Sancton Ranch. We used a design build contractor. And that was a sub under a general contract. So it wasn't quite a design build. Same as what I'm talking about now. It's not apples to apples. We have tried to use it for water treatment plant expansions in the past and been successful in that. One of our retired engineers Larry Wainow was a design build, I won't call him guru, but he was well informed on that and traveled a lot around the design build world. So I went to a conference a couple weeks ago with the Design Build Institute of America and met a lot of industry folks. Now a lot of design build work coming in 2023 by 2023, 47% of government projects nationally will be designed on a design build basis. We're talking, I was going to talk with the man, the woman who run New York's billion dollar annual budget to rebuild all their facilities. They're rebuilding all their jails for a place like Rhode Island right now under design build. The woman who's running the Puget Sound Metro system upgrade is doing it under design build. There's a big, big things. I was the only landscape architect and a bunch of engineer, a whole room of engineers and building contract and things like that. So when I tried to dial it into a park, I got a lot of blind stairs but had a lot of good side conversations with people and I really think that this is an exciting way to go that will not only lead to a big project, it will be less city resource intensive. It puts a lot of the risk back on the design build team, not on the city and it's a way that we can get projects done. That five-month period that I mentioned sort of in the middle of the process essentially disintegrates. It's a little bit heavier up front and I'll explain the line in a second but once you get the team going, I'm thinking that we can take that 15 to 25 month window and shave that down to 10 to 15 months. Significant reduction in the length of time that we'll take to get a finished product to the public which is really our goal is to get it out there and build. So, Steve Guy is there for more piece here. The other piece I think having these smaller conversations with Errol and Joni in the room, I think there was a higher level of knowledge of what else that staff, Steve's and Cathy's and Danielle's were working on. Stuff that's not on there, RSVP is not on there, the CIP project we already need to land. We don't have a city-wide landscape division and to meet those needs, they're being pulled in. So there's a lot of, why is there so much time on these other projects? We don't have anyone and as an organization, I think this group also recognizes how important it is when you do a project that you have trees tied into that product into that concrete design of the street. So, the value they added was significant. Errol is also now saying, well, those other groups need to bring that in. They need to be a contractor then it has landscape architect. They need to look potentially higher in landscape architect that's more of a city-wide. So, Errol is looking at this, I think at a little bit different level too on some of those gaps that when we say we're doing other stuff, those other stuff are, I think things that are really valuable to community and I think Errol really kind of recognized that and is looking to fill some of those gaps as well. So, that time that Frank and Steve gave is the perfect timeline without Steve being pulled in multiple directions. Right. Yes, the projects of other departments are running take away a lot of our time that we can't then put forward our projects. So, what we did is we tried to identify eight projects. We also wanted to make sure that we identified projects that were already underway that we don't want to slow down by this new thing. Because this new thing is going to take a little time to get off the ground. So, we identified the purple box to the left. You can see projects that we're continuing to do. You know, the Button Rock Master Plan, Danielle can probably give you an update on that here. You know Gallo, I'm getting 100% design drawings are coming the Monday after Thanksgiving. And he's adding two more clicks while closing up. I did. Is the easiest design change destruction work? I think I'll go here. I need more money from you in order to pay for it, but that's a later conversation. St. Frank base 13, the Lou Miller Park renovations that Kathy had started that I've taken on, and then the Kensington Park restroom is another project that is slowly ongoing but is outside of this whole design built umbrella. These future projects are other projects we've identified in the near future that need to happen. A lot of them are Park Renewal projects. We want to make sure, I've stressed this to David, that in talking with Timber, we feel as though over the past three, four years we've done a lot of Park Renewal work. We had a big climb ahead of us that we've gotten over that home. We want to make sure we don't just create another huge hump by ignoring Park Renewal for four or five years, why the pretty sparkly design build projects are all on our forefront and we're working on that. In five years down the road, we've got a huge list of Park Renewal projects we have to do without the funds, resources, time to do it. So we're cognizant of that, and so that's going to be existing as of right now outside of design build. Those type of projects don't necessarily lend themselves to design build because there's a lot more doing little things here, little things there rather than major construction, which is what design build lends itself to. So that's the future projects, like that's in the purple box. Yes, and those are the ones as Lou Miller drops off Steve's plate, then you pick something else up and we're going to just go to this whole design build and just not do anything else. We think that there's capacity getting for them to do these renewals and these projects are working on as we get the design build going. They'll still have that capacity. We'd like to see how we can kind of continue to work those into it. And then so what we did was we took the eight projects and sort of grouped them into groups of two for similar design teams and construction teams that didn't like work. That was at the recommendation of our purchasing manager, Valerie Scott, who was nervous about jumping into one contract with eight projects in five years about something we've ever done before. We'll hardly agree. And this is, we're going to be using a design best value approach as far as the procurement process, which is also going to make things a little bit more quick. But that's a process you can use for design build where basically they have to come to you and you can advertise. You're not advertising for this project. You're asking them for the design build skills. They come to you with a six page proposal, half hour interview. You pick three of the three that you're dealing with then negotiate for the first blue box up here. At the time of the negotiation of the first blue box, which is neighborhood parks, that's when we sort of chosen to move forward with the South Clover Meadows Park. That design was not far enough along where we felt we couldn't include in this process. So I'm taking my early design. I'll give that to the design team based on the master plan that was already done. And then Fox Meadows Neighborhood Park I presented to the HOA last week and told them that their project was going to be one of the firsts that we do too. So we're going to hit those first two neighborhood parks hard to try to get those moving. That will be the first design build contract that we enter into in 2023. So like I said, with the three firms that we finalize, three teams I should say, because usually it's a contract we're going to design team that build up team up together to create an LLC or whatever it is to create the firm that you hire. We would, of those three, we would say, okay, here's the, here's how I describe the park. I'll write this long narrative about what these parks should include what they may include if you go through a public process still for Fox Meadows to see what the neighborhoods want, the residents want, and then they give us a price. And then they work with us. The price includes design, construction, everything at the very beginning. And then they tell us, and then with the best value approach that we'll be using, we don't have to take the low price. We can take the one with the best value for the city. And so that a lot gives us the flexibility, whereas in design bid build, we're often tied into the, we have to have a reason why we wouldn't pick a low bid. And a reason that you don't like their subcontractor is not a good enough reason that I found. It would have helped me in the past, but that is a, that is a reason that's viable in this design build process. So there's a lot more negotiation going on. It does take several months to get through this process, if you can imagine, but Valerie has assured us that she has been up with the resources aside to help us through this because she's excited to get this process. She and Harold, with Harold's direction, is really excited to get this process within the city's wheelhouse for procurement. And Harold thinks that this could be process we use for road rehab and, you know, sewer line maintenance and things like that. I don't care. That's, that's somebody else's deal. I don't worry about that. So anyway, that's the first group. The other three groups that we, groups that we identified were Trail Projects, Union Reservoir Loop Trail and St. Green Greenway Phase 12. Those are both projects that are either funded or show funding in the next five years CIP. We've got large complex projects, which is the Quail Campus Build Out and Dry Creek Phase 2. There's some thoughts about the Quail Campus Build Out. If you remember the existing master plan, the current master plan that was adopted by council back in the early 2000s, shows a nice facility on there. There is talk that we may re-engage the public and go back to the pulpit and see if that facility actually might not be the best use of that space. And there might be some other activities that might use that space much more effectively and quickly. And so that's a conversation we'll be having with the community as we move forward. And the board obviously will be part of that discussion. And then Dry Creek Phase 2 is the build out of everything in Dry Creek Park, except for the rec center and outdoor pool that are shown sort of the southeast corner. And then the fourth category is existing park conditions. That's changing the existing Dry Creek Park fields to synthetic turf and the Sandstone Ranch Base Floor Project which is shown as funded, the construction funding for next year. And that's the last bit of ball fields in the southwest corner of that park. Steve, I was looking for emails. How many parks in Valerie say that for the Arizona? They did 55 projects but it was only $18 million and they had some park renovations. Now Harold wondered if we should go to Roseville which is a suburb of Minneapolis. We haven't got there yet. So we'll see if we want to go out there. And that's part of that David is that wasn't necessarily designed though that was BDA. Okay. So we're doing two new processes here. Exactly. Best value approach is a procurement method. Design build is a design construction method. So we're using DBA to pick a DB firm. So the DBA, I'm less, well I'm actually extremely nervous about it because I never, I always get these 30 paper proposals and there's doing these long interviews with all these different folks. It's one person that come in, they talk to you for a half hour, six pages, you have to choose. That's, that makes me uncomfortable but we'll see. A lot of this is outside my comfort zone. Based on how we've done it previously. But the goal is, based on Harold, he doesn't care if we fail. He wants us to try something new to get things going because we're not getting the additional staff that we need and so we need to come up with a different way to do it with the staff we have. So this is the approach we've come up with. And this best value piece, really we, we got to talk to the founder's sons. It sounds like a family that has kind of worked on this is being used widely in Europe from large parts of the US too to due procurement. And the way what they're saying is when you do this sort of process and you're asking people come in and take the time to put in front of you their package, you're getting their top performers. And they have a economic incentive to get this thing done as fast as possible because you get your price up front. So, right. So say they say Clover Meadows Park's going to take 1.7 million dollars. To their interest, to design the park, to the specifications that we write at the beginning that meets the community needs. Now in their proposal to make them more attractive is where they start saying, well, we can do this, this and this. Things that might be above and beyond what's in the scope. That would be attractive to the community that would allow us to choose maybe the 1.8 million rather than the 1.7 million vendor. The three teams that we go to. That's where I'm still learning again throughout this. It's confusing. I apologize. But it's really a way that the vendor can show off how good they are. Vendor being the design build team and the city having the options to choose the best value for the city even if it's a little bit more money there might be more value to it in the long run. So currently, so I'm not super versed in this. So currently what has to happen is let's say Bob's Parks says we can do it for $200 in Ralph's Parks et cetera that says we're going to do one for $195. We have to take the $195. We have to justify why we don't take the $195. And Joe's Parks, if they don't like the justification, they can come back at us. Now there have been reasons why we don't choose the lowest bid. But it's not as easy as just saying no. It's the obvious low bid is what we go with. Now if Bill's Parks says, well ours is going to be $250 but we're going to put a roller coaster in and Bill's says, well ours is still $195 but we've got a skating rink for you, then we can choose whichever one and we don't have to justify it anymore. Is that? I'm just starting to get it. Yes, yes, yes. The justification process, story process is the justification. It's like this is the best value for the city. Okay. Even if it's a higher price, the value we think we're getting. Tell me, because this is right up your alley. Tell me if you know about this stuff because it's all about the metrics which is right in your thing. I don't know how to put metrics on creativity. I don't believe in that. They say they can do it but I'm still worried about losing the creativity in these parks. I'm familiar with design, Bill, but not the metrics I've ever. Okay. Yeah, the best value piece is are there city ordinances, laws that we have to change or to do this? Is that written in already that we take the low bid? The city, the procurement requirements are already vetted by council by the city attorney's office. City attorney's office is already vetted a design Bill contract previously used by the city. So we've already vetted that. So that's written in the cross and okay. Did you do a different methodology which has also been suggested by Harold makes purchasing in the city attorney's office a little hesitant because it takes a long time to push that contract through their review months and months. And so we're trying to use something that's already existing within our purchasing code. This is really exciting. And I'd love to say I think Steve has actually been pretty good. So I'm still nervous as hell. Yeah, you have to be too. I hope you do. You're like, oh, it's so different. There's a little bit more hands off hands off piece because one of the pieces that when they see these things fail is really where the the group procuring this service gets in the way of the process. And that's what we kind of heard that it really is if you're being the best people and you're probably having to spend less time out there and the more time you're spending with us keeping them doing the project. So it is a piece I think all of us in here kind of wonder how you just turn over a city project that Steve's and Kathy's and Paul's were uses and it's such a great job of working with the community and we bring an outside person in to fill that role. But again, insurance is that you're picking the best people with the best skills or bringing their best people who have done this kind of work. So are there going to be, I mean, I'm guessing even when you hire a contractor you need somebody to manage and oversee the contract. So are there, I'm guessing that you still don't have enough capacity even with this new approach. So is that being recognized and considered? Yes. Two things. One is right now on projects if a contractor builds something and the contractor says, well, this is per plan. I can't do anything about it unless I pay them to change it. If the contractor in the design build team are working on something and I say that this has to be H6 to 8 playground and they specify the wrong plate women, that's between them. Rip it out and do it over. I don't care. It's not. So these just, nope, not for us. Takes the risk away from the city, puts it on the design build team to design and build what the city want within our budget. And that's one of the benefits that I'm seeing from this is that you have a lot more control even though I don't have to be on site holding the contractor's hand every day. If I come out and say we want an irrigation system and I found out that the irrigation system was only 12 inches deep, dig the whole thing up, do it again. How much more? So you still have to inspect to your point. When you still have to inspect to have it. Somebody's still watching but it's not. Maybe not as carefully. It's, yes. It's not as close. Okay. You have a lot more latitude and which stretches my time over a greater period of grievance, space for projects. That being said, you'll notice on here that we have a couple term positions shown on here. We, we, I think that we have to, assuming there's the next cavity, I think between Kathy, Daniel and I, we have the capacity to fight off the first design build contract. I'm hoping that David will approve an owner's rep for me that would help us through that process as someone that's more educated in design build that for several thousand dollars we can hire and advise us, which I think would be a good idea in the beginning. But after that, we need people to be coming in and doing things so we can still be doing the things in the purple and all the other things we do. I was wondering about all the other things that are not the design build. So, Joni has been very clear to Carol that we need more staff to accomplish this. He has said that his experience is that when we hire term staff, they often become permanent staff. But he's open to talking about term staff right now. We also got to figure out who's going to manage the overall design build contract. You'll notice the little orange box in the upper right. There's two ways of doing that that we've come up with. One is to struggle by with between David and me integrating services, which is our budget folks and purchasing, or hire someone that we've been trying to hire which did not get approved in the budget or did not get put into the budget last year, which was a manager for Park and Trail designing or planning to develop. So, maybe we can hire that person. I've presented that to Harold and Joni several times. They seem available too, but I don't know where that's going to go. That's really outside of that's between David and Joni and Carol. But they've heard the message that we need people. We can't do this by ourselves. And I think as you see as we kind of last night put up, we put it up as kind of things we kind of did a little reveal with kind of sticky boards up there. And by the time we got the last piece, which is kind of closed behind those doors, Joni's like, will you need more people to do this? And you're like, da, da, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. So I kind of at least a conversation to I think a good conclusion which is kind of what's been nice about this process kind of walking through and seeing what we wanted it done, what we have using metric based approaches that I think as people we definitely need some additional capacity. And I hope that yeah, now I'm glad to I'm really glad to hear that and I hope that that continues but the folks you all are working with continue to hear that crap is particularly interested in that. And I think it's great. I mean, this isn't exciting new approach. I think if you're approaching it with a really positive energetic attitude, which is great. And but I think it's it's not going to succeed if you don't still recognize what there is some additional capacity needed. You can't just like it's not magic move all the pieces around but I've been open with this group on that's why we're here that young that this is important to me and I'll continue to ask I think Joey's been a great champion in this and other piece that I think that, you know, sometimes things start and then other things get distracted. If we don't continue to focus and move down this path, this puts us further behind. You know, Steve has invested a lot of time in this value he has. And if we end up going back the way things were, I think we I feel like we really need to move this direction at least and see how that person box goes. Our previous work plan was for Fox Meadows to start the design four quarter of 2022. So I had to go tell the HUA that yeah, we're not doing that. We've been telling them that for seven, eight years now. And they were not thrilled when I explained this and I said, I can tell you that with this process even though it's going to take longer up front, you'll expect the design engagement with the public to be happening May, June, July of next year. So it's going to take us that long to get a design build team on board. Build at the ground running and they can get the grading plan done. The contract can start grading before the plans are even done. Once you get your grading set, the contract can go out there and start doing so. I told them, we'll be moving dirt by the end of next year. We're not going to have the final design done by the end of next year likely. But we'll be far enough along when we can be doing some of the civil construction that's to start at every project that we can show that we're working toward getting them apart and then have a part in 2024. So is this the future part? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yeah. Has that been more than seven or eight years? Well, it was 2003 when that land was dedicated to the city. Right. We didn't promise it to them really in an expedient format until the master plan was adopted by council to 2014. Okay. And when 2014, that was one of the top priority projects. And then we I've had several of those neighbors say, yeah, and we want the name to be future part. Future part. They want to rock it. Whatever. We want future part. I said that's the way that that does not be the name and criteria that's in the council unless they choose that. But we'll see. Yeah, I was thinking that I personally wouldn't like and maybe I'll just start bringing it. I would like a map for our teams. Because there's so many things that I know I know these things but I'd like just to let's see. Yeah. We whenever we're talking about stuff I don't I want to see where it is because I know I know some of the names. I've been to every single part that we have. This was the right way to do that. But it's so hard for me to remember the names. I have 8,000 kids to remember the names. Sure. I get it. So here's the rec center. Yeah. Here's the needle gallop part. Yeah. You know that one. Yeah. So that one's the one that's we're going forward with. You know where Lou Miller is, right? Right by Lamont High School. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Lou Miller is right here with the big pond. Between the hospital. Okay. The hospital. Okay. That's ongoing. That's ongoing. Oh, okay. We have projects where the disc golf is. Oh, okay. Yeah, that. Okay, I know. That's the under construction. Yeah. That's like that's the one my church sponsored for a lot of years. Okay. And then same-frame page 13 is Janie Else's project. Yeah. Sorry. Which is really connecting Sandstone Ranch to same-frame State Park. Great. So this is 12. That's the one. Page 13, this is the one that's Janie Else already. Oh, gosh. That's the one with the storage unit in our great thing that we saw. Yeah. That's what I'm really excited about. Yeah. Can we just stop that storage unit? Thanks. We didn't. No. We didn't want to. It's a welcome. Actually, they're working very well with us. Really good, yeah. Because that's all the storage instructions. Oh, yeah. They're good. We're going to need the storage unit. Everybody's going to buy all the crap from Costco and have to have some place to store them. Right. That was a project that we decided we were too far along with design. There were some funding challenges. We can't do design build with CDOT. CDOT doesn't, even though federal funds are allowed for design build, the CDOT doesn't allow that in the current guidelines. So we couldn't do that. Okay. But anyway, the new park projects are Cobra Meadows, which is way down in Southwest Lamont. If you remember the, the straight here. Yeah. Where am I? Portico and over here. Yeah. And what's going on with that park? I can't remember that. Is that going to be the dog park? Nope. This one, the master plan showed playground, an open turf area, exercise stations, a bike skills area. It's only a 6.8 acre park. I seem to think that's the one that I've had community members approach me and say that they really want to be a natural area and not turf. No, I think that's the one, I think that's the one up here. Yeah, that's a car. I mean, it's this one right here. It could be. But right now, City Council has already approved the master plan and we'll move forward with the design as the conversation isn't open any longer on that less good council part. And so, Fox Meadows is the other part that does not have an approved master plan. We've done no preliminary design on it. That's the future part. That's only the future part that's over here in Ninth and Kindline Road. And that's right here. This one's interesting because this is the park site. This is the future school site. There have been rumblings in the district, mind not, want this land. Do we make this a 20 acre park? Is that appropriate inside and everybody a huge 20 acre park? I don't tend to think so. But maybe there's something, we'll have to have conversations with the district about that. We also paid for a pump station in the golf course right here, back in 2007 or 2008. And so we need to get an easement from the HOA for this property to get the pipe between here to here to the park. So that's something I'm glad for the HOA meeting. We'll have to negotiate an easement from them. I think one thing, this process is going to do is going to have to help us make some decisions because every one of these park projects, it turns into slum conversations about is the school district going to build the school there? Is it going to be a bigger park? Are they going to build housing there? What kind of park did you meet next time? I think there's a great point where we just have to make a decision. Because it's the rise of union reservoir that you continue to have these ongoing conversations because there's really no hard deadlines. We're going to make decisions. I'm just like the pickleball courts at Cuell campus. Is it going to be cool? Is it going to be ice? Well, you know, that's a 20-year conversation. The life cycle of pickleball courts is 20 years, and we can decide that in 20 years then. So, right. You know, it's really calling stop sending an open district and say, hey, you just don't want to. It says yes, there's still going to build something here that comes here to go. Right. As far as I'm concerned, if they say no, then we need to talk to leadership and what do we want to put there? Is that the best use? Is it more park? Is it open space? Is it affordable housing? Is it sell it off to the private sector to develop? I don't know. That's not my ideal. I just know about this land here. Exactly. Okay. So, that's Fox Manor. So, those are the two neighborhood parks that we're going to be starting on. You need a loop trail? Believe it or not, there's a trail around Union Resort. I don't know if that one was easy. Yeah, I got that one. You had the handouts when we were on the trip and all that. Yeah, that helps. I just like to, I like the... Does it help? Yeah, it just helps. And I think I'm really, I'm just going to bring the bike map. I'm just having like, you know what I mean? Because the bike map is, it's so good. That's like my favorite map. But yeah. The, and so that's one that's already been approved by council. The money is already funded for that, if I remember right. So, that's just design bill. There's no, there's no more public process. There's no land easements we need up in here. It's going to be tight up in here, but we'll be working with the reservoir company, which we're the majority shareholder. So, that's the loop trail. And then the other one is Golden Ponds to, well, not the Pella, but Golden Ponds is right here, trail on the north side of the river underneath the airport road and then connecting up to Westview Middle School on the west side of airport road. Well, the county is looking to make their trail system come across and connect into our trail system somewhere around the railroad track crossing. And so, they've been pushing off. They've had some problems with property owners up in this area. This landowner wouldn't give them the route they wanted. They were, they're under contract to buy this land and acquire this land, I should say, in 2024. This is not correct, right there? Yes, still. So, 2024 or 25, the county will own that land and then they don't have to ask for permission to put the trail where they want it. They just do it. So, that's, they're playing the waiting game there. They, that, that contract was signed before 2010, by 2000. By 2006. This is 25 points. That's almost 90, you know. Yeah, I know her from decades. Her kids are. Her kids. Her kids. Her kids. They're still at their name. Are the rates towards the land and that's a centennial farm. And there is value in keeping a centennial farm. So, it has to be done super respectfully. That's the county's decision, not mine. Right. So, it's great. So, those are the two trail projects. Quill campus build out. We talked about that. That's the land right over here. Country club, sorry. My landmarks. All this land up in here. The museum is currently working on some conversations with some donations that they've had to expand the museum facility. In this general area, we need to figure out how that may impact the master plan. This development is coming through for approval right now with. It was already approved. Yeah, it's not approved yet. I'm still on the plan for review. Oh, really? Yeah. I went to the commission thing. And not that. The plans have been approved. The, I'm sorry. The concept of the project has been approved. The plan is the public improvement. We haven't been approved. That's not a public thing. It's an internal thing. But they're showing. So, we plan to put some parking here. Museum might eat into that parking a little bit with their expansion. All that's been approved right now is the commercial site right here. That fronts onto Main Street. The hotel site is not been approved. It's one time it's approved at a preliminary level. But they will be building a road in with this project from this point right here straight across connecting into the parking lot over here. At which point we need to be building our road around like this and connecting. That's the master plan that's shown and that's what they're responding to. So, we'll have to plan to build this road at some point in the future. And this is where the ICE facility is currently shown in the master plan. That may be needed for some other use. Do you think it's another of the ICE facilities shown there in the master plan? So, I've checked out the master plan and it's a little stuff. I just, that area, and I know you're not really inviting me to talk about this, but that area isn't, there's a lot of ecology in that area that's just not, that I brought up. But there's a there's a vernal pond that you can see from this picture and you usually can't see it. There's a vernal pond with, so you can see that dark spot. Yeah. Nope, no, it's not that dark spot. Go down to your, down to the left. Down, down, down, down, down. But right there. Well, that? Yeah. So, that has some crazy awesome amphibians in there. I found salamanders in that area. There's endangered species in that area. It's, all I can say is it's private property. So, it's outside of what I can control. But they would be held to through our same process to make sure if there's ET species at all there. Yeah. City council has told me when I brought up to, to Marcia, she's like, well, the wildlife people didn't find it and like, well, I'm on it all the time. I'm a wildlife person. But yeah, we don't, we don't go on a private property. Right? We have them hire, they hire consultants. Yeah. And what's surprising is that their consultants that they paid didn't find the species in 30 seconds that the people in the area found. It's, yeah, there's stuff there and there's an easement for, a river easement for a reason. Well, that's up here. Yeah. I mean, it's all. This, I'm fortunate to tell you, this, I'm responsible for all this dirt right here because this all came out of the left-hand creek flood control project. We hauled over here and then post-flood out holding more over here. This is just a result of that rain. It's just a depression in the land. It's nothing, it may have turned into something that wildlife had moved into. They just didn't have enough dirt because they left the low spot there. That's the only reason that's there. So just a little history on it. Quilt campus. And then we talked about Sandstone Ranch. Build out of phase four of Sandstone. One more. Here we go. That's down in here. There's more parking down in here. And then another two, three or four plex could turn into something else. We'll have to rethink about that. At least two. Just asking recreation. What do you need more baseball? There's a ball. Pick a ball. Like what do you need? You need it all. So that's. I just feel like pickleball is a flash in the pan. We hear a lot of otherwise there from a great percentage of the public. And so we're trying to address those needs as much as possible. I don't think it's a great percentage of the public. I think it's a blast. A vocally great percentage of the public. Yeah, a vocal. We're not hearing anyone else than anything else. So that's the great percentage of the public that we're hearing right now. Yeah. So it's a challenge. So. Just as, because I think we all, I mean, we hear this stuff all the time for all kinds of things that I think in the national level, even we're seeing this, this is probably more than a quick flash in pan. At least I do think there's a demographic shift in what people are. Stephen Colbert is having a pickleball thing. I saw it earlier in the football game. And then the last project is. Dry Creek, again, back down the southwest long lawn here. The two projects are these fields are the fields that aren't used right now. We're going to turn these into synthetic. This is the future of future rec center location. This is the future outdoor pool location. But the, the balance of this park here is what we would be building with phase two in the third box, the complex project. Sam and I do game calls for the public. That has a lot of great options. There's an existing 18 hole golf course out there that is not well used. Not well maintained disc golf. Yes. Yeah. Disc golf. Yeah. Barely any disc golf. You said the equal total. I thought that was nice. I thought that was nice. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Wow. It's really rough. It's really, really rough. It's a rough disc golf course. Yeah. Like what? I mean. It's a rough disc golf course. I see a lot of, and I hear you saying, you know, like everyone's going to grade it. We're going to build a park. What about just having a park? Because it's just so much value in, and there's so much potential and play potential in recreation potential. That's what all those kids were saying is like, do less. Like why are we, why do we tear all the nature out of the Dickens area and then put a couple dead logs, leave a couple dead logs and have it be the nature area. We tore all the nature out. Like why can't we just leave some of this stuff and then let people be on it and like right across the kids were listening to the rules that they thought were stupid. And one of them was like, you got to stay on the trail. Why don't you have to stay on the trail? Right? Like, you know, like this is like, like why can't we just leave that how it is and have people enjoy it how it is? Like what's wrong with that? So you have to remember that in civic infrastructure, might things might look like a park, but there are a lot of other things besides a park. The reason why Dickens the way it is is because it's a flood control project on open space within an nature area. So you have all of those different levels of things. We had to remove everything because we needed the flood capacity in that area. So flood, you can't leave nature and have flood capacity there. Contrary to one another. But remove the nature and then re... That's okay. With that, that's okay. In an area. In an area, yes, thank you. Thank you. Yes, in this area where we have already developed properties on both sides. So that's the reason why Dickens is where it is. We consciously have in our park system, neighborhood parks, which are meant for local active play, community parks, which are meant for regional intensive active play, and nature areas, which are for passive recreation. We have nature areas throughout the city, including our Greenway trails, which are areas for people to go and interact with nature. This... And I think it goes down that path here, right? We'll use the diagonal. I'll talk about next. I think it's the open space, too. So I think we go from intensive community driven parks to kind of less intensive all the way up to open space where the human centric piece becomes, you know, tertiary to everything else. So this community park here is one of several within the city. We have garden makers, which is here. We have Clark Centennial, which that's been a little hard in my eyes. I think it's somewhere in here, but I'm mistaken. New Sandstone Ranch, which is out here. And then Montgomery Farm, which is a future one. So for 100,000 residents, plus how much money do you make on baseball and softball tournaments and soccer tournaments every year when your recreation budget relies on bringing teens in from around the country? Half a million dollars. Well, that's about $150,000 just in rental fees, plus the impact is significant. Okay, so those are people from outside the community. And our community is saying that our community park, we want a nature area as our community park. Why can't we listen to them? It's cheaper. That's also hundreds of baseball families within our community, too. Yeah, I can't get that. And I think the piece of Longmont's really good at is, listen, and again, that's what's great about this group that sits here is they bring those different perspectives. And I think Longmont is one of the things that I always say our landscape architects and planners have done a great job of reaching out to communities and saying, what do you want? I would say there's not a park out there that Steve hasn't talked to those neighbors and said, what are we looking for in trying to address those needs? And I think the bigger piece, like Steve said, how we balance that across our community with our more natural areas and our community parks. But we are trying to strike a balance. If you think about the master plans for Gallo and for South River Meadows, they are more than 50% native grasses, native areas. Which is good. Because, I mean, I'll tell you, nobody in that neighborhood plays big a role. That Jackie didn't talk. That's Jackie's area. Our Longmonsters didn't talk to me. And some of them didn't come. They don't play pickleball, right? That area is a Latino area, right? That's the Latino community park. They play groundies. Because I play with them. They play groundies. They want groundies. They want a good groundies area. And they want a great place for everyone to sit while they have a picnic. And I think that we'll be able to provide that once your park is done. All of those things, yeah. But that's the kind of thing is that I, you know, I... And the other just the other thing is with those native areas, there will be signs of staying on the trail. Because unfortunately, we can take one person walking off the trail. We can't take all the people walking off the trail. Or else the grasses doesn't grow. Then we have pollution. We have erosion. We have irrigation challenges. We have snowballs as far as operational sites. We do intend to keep people on the trails. The same frame greenway was... Interact with nature. The same frame greenway was intentionally filled with all those railings. Have identified locations for people to come out and interact with the river. But not free for all. Yeah. And so then they can't interact with nature. And so we're taking more nature areas away. I don't know. So if we could go a long time. Yeah, sorry. Sending a list of time I think we'll start with the groundies. Could you just... There was a community park next to the Gallipark. Yes, scissors. I forgot about that one. Thank you, sisters. So where does that fall here? And where does Montgomery Falls fall? In any of the schools? Good question. There's interplay though with this. That probably attacks as well. Yeah. So sisters, I forgot. I'm sorry to mention that there's a 78-year park right here. A future community park. That is not at all in anything we're talking about. There isn't any momentum behind that park developing right now. Could happen. You don't know. One of the locations for the... That could put a ring on this is if Montgomery Farms is chosen as one of these, then we're going to need to master plan Montgomery Farms. You can't just put a building here and expect the people to react around it. You have to get all the utilities up there, making sure they're not bisecting fields and things like that. So we would need to master plan this park site. That would probably kick out quail or kick out something else. Or we can handle that outside of the design build world. That's very possible too as part of the rec center. The architect to do the rec center, to do the master plan the entire site, we can handle that. This is an internal rec center any year passes and that site is chosen. Yes. Okay, guys. Correct. Yeah, there's definitely a little bit of interplay between all these pieces. That's where recreation and parks development work together on those types of quails. Sightings facilities. So really that's in a nutshell. We still need more staff. We're trying to do eight projects in five years. It's nervous. Make me nervous. But we'll get there. We're using some new processes that we've heard from the council and from the public and we need to get going. So I think Harold's guiding us towards something that's a little bit more a little less control. I'll be perfectly honest. I still have problems having less control over all these things. I don't like that at all. But I'll learn. We'll see. Thank you so much. We're meant for a two-day weekend. We look forward to it. Yeah. Yeah, I'll still be fun for you. It's a lot to my luck. It's just been five years. Great. Well, thank you, Steve. And again, thank you for cutting really your enthusiasm in this. I know it's a lot right now. We've already had one out. So I want the biggest. Woo! I just want to thank you. The biggest alone in the comments is not a fun time. So the next piece is really that. I think Erin, I was going to say, were you going to just jump to this? Or were you going to because it might be a transition if you want to. That's what this is going to end up with. It's a C. No, I guess we can skip. Let's just go. I was going to write you all the spaces. Oh, yeah. I can't just do this. Yeah, we should do all the spaces first. Let's do the. Yeah, go with this. So do you want to say anything or do you want me to just jump in first? Go ahead. Okay. So the next is about. Sorry, one more thing. These eight projects are not set in stone. If there are other projects that the board and you can tell me next month, because the only two that are really dialed into is Clover Meadows and Box Meadows because that's where the direction we're getting. The other ones, if the board thinks that there's reasons we should be looking to make good efforts and money elsewhere, rather than one of these, please let us know sooner rather than later. We're basing a program around this. If there's different feelings, share them soon. Next couple of minutes. Thanks. So the next time is just following up on the board candidate interviews. So you all probably remember the folks that weren't here. That definitely did. Let us know last week that the city or last month that the city council was trying a new process for selecting board members or for vetting applicants for advisory boards. And this new process involves a longer interview, not just those. So the five minutes, like, is easy. And it also allows current board members to be part of the process. And so Nicholas and I had the opportunity to join Jeff and David and then in a round of interviews for Proud applicants last week. And since neither Jeff nor Minogue are opting to return, we had two seats open. And so I had the interviews Jeff shared with us sort of some questions. And we looked back and forth and got to have some input on what questions were asked. And he also shared some priorities that had been identified in terms of someone who has interest in ice skating or ice hockey, someone who has children participating in vet programs, someone who has interest in sort of parks, open space lands, greenways, natural resources, so probably. And then we conducted the interviews and based on the conversations with the applicants, we're recommending that we move one of the candidates so we interviewed forward based on good alignment, relevant professional and civic experience, sort of relationship to the priorities that were identified. But we're recommending on holding off filling the second seat and waiting until the June recruitment so that we can do some additional outreach. I don't know if you want to say that. That was really well said. I'm just going to follow that after you had notes. Okay, all right. What I'm just saying is that the one candidate who decided to move forward, I'm really excited about this person. I'm not sure we're saying names at this point, but they really, they showed a lot of investment interest and they clearly had read that our meeting notes and we're invested in what we're discussing and it'll seem like a fine addition to the board. So that's all I've got. So it's my understanding and then it is new process that it goes over to city council and not sure exactly. But do we want to, do we want to pass a motion to them? Yeah. I don't know that process yet. Let's, yes. I don't know what you're going to say. I don't know what you're going to say. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. We will interview those candidates or those applicants recommended by boards and commissions on December 10th. Okay. So those five minutes be the interviewers. So you still do them. You just produce your numbers. We'll be based on substantial interviews and as the basis for your recommendations. That's helpful. So I think it was our group's recommendation that we move one of the applicants forward and David and Jeff have that information and that we hold it, see it open and wait until the June recruitment and do some more robust outreach. And I think it's a great way to hear tonight. I think I'm hearing that we're not hearing from our whole community. I think this group and staff probably needs to do a better job of reaching out to our community and we have professional staff around the board that help us get those target areas that we're really good at. But are there better ways to go and try to get our message out to a larger portion of our community and because we want to pass up, I'd like to really work with this group and with staff on how we do a better job of trying to make sure when we get to that June that we have done a better or a less job of reaching out to our community. One thing to remember though also is that we are, we have a Parks Recreation and Trails Master Plan that is very clear as far as what a park and trail system will, should look like. That was adopted by City Council and so that is really our guiding document at this point in time. So taking community parks off the board and making the nature areas would be a marked change from that document that's already been adopted over the following. So that might be a time to have that greater conversation when that time gets updated hopefully in the next two years. I do have a question. And this is a new process. So is it okay for the board? I've asked you, if the board can recommend just one of the two and it will not look at, necessarily look at the other one. Well, I'll tell you there has been, there's not just one mind guidance, right? My own view is we have to work with your recommendations. There are other views that we ought to have multiple recommendations. Even if you have one seat to fill, if you had four good candidates, you ought to recommend, advance all four of them as opposed to just one of them if you've got four good ones. And then we would interview those four and make a decision. We haven't had the conversation. What if you have two open seats and you've only recommended one person by design, right, for the very, very purpose? I think it makes a lot of sense. We haven't had that conversation. And then unless you have other people to advance at this time, you would advance to one nominee we would interview and I can't imagine that we would not make a point your recommendation. And you would have a discretion to appoint somebody else. Sure, I wanted to build a seat. Yep. I imagine so, for example, and I know with Callaghan or I sit on that one, you have six candidates, which is crazy. And four spots available. So that would be, I imagine that will be that group recommending four, but you'll have six put in front of you. No, well, it depends on what you're, we won't interview those. We would only interview the four that you recommend and less. You decided the six and we had five good candidates. Okay. So that we would interview five and select four of the five, right? If you didn't have, if you had six applicants and only three good candidates, you would only recommend three. Is this a problem? Here's calendar years. Is it set up? You can do whatever you guys like, or is there, no, this is for calendar year 2023 and all. Is this a two and a half year term now? Whoever takes over if we approve with somebody in June? I think the, I think the intent is to try to get these all in the same term. Okay. So we're not doing it twice a year because it, I have to tell you, the clerk's office gets real confused. That's right. Right, people are with their terms. Yeah, so. So in other words, our job is to do some outreach and see for the next one. For the next one. Are there any parameters that I have to go by? You know, that people have to have a college degree today? Who's the English today? Be resident of Longland for one year. I think what we were looking, you know, what we're looking for is student. So we have these sort of three areas of interest, you know, and then I think, you know, what are the perspectives that we feel like with strength of the board and make sure that we're have sort of broadly reflective of the community. I think we really want someone who wants to be on the parks and recreation board and really, you know, cares about this, whatever their views about that are. But I mean. Generally this board and planning and zoning are the two board. Historic preservation parks and public places that kind of lives in the top four, but this and PNZ are typically, we have the most applicants. People want to serve on this board. Jeff was very surprised. Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, these board seats don't come up that often. And I really appreciate that opportunity for us to, you know, inform how the board moves forward and you know, the direction that she had before. And so I think it's it's a great opportunity. So I think we need a motion if anyone wants to make one to, you know, move forward, then take Canada that we're recommended. And I think it's a good idea. I don't, can I make the question? I don't know. We can do it though. I don't know. I'll see you there. Yeah. I motion to recommend Sam Libby and the names out there. As the candidate would like City Council, we'd like to recommend the City Council to be appointed to be part of the activation of those boards starting 2023. Do you have a second? Oh, sure. This is really weird. It just feels really odd. I mean, this is the first time with this process. So you can do it, Georgia? Actually, this is great. First time for me. Okay, thank you. I mean, it's the second, second voting. But I'll second because I trust that you two did a nice job. Oh, that's a great, yeah, that's a great one. I'm sure it was still good. And and you three goals. They did a great job. All right. They did a great job. So we have a motion in a second. All those in favor? Any votes? Thank you. So you, I don't know how this gets passed on if you take it. Yeah, we'll give it a job together. But I do think, I mean, really had two applicants for this board, which is just like really, really unusual. Wow. Yeah. So I think it does say that we need to all do some significant outreach. That should be a bigger pool. And I think that, you know, hopefully with you reflecting on the park users, yeah, yeah, that's it. So I'm just going to hold this upside down. Councilmember Waters, since you're not interviewing people until December, I mean, it would only happen one spot instead of going another cycle without somebody, is there a process that you could open up and have somebody else cast that they would like to cancel? That's my understanding of it. They only do it when they do it. Yeah, there's a there's a day when it starts and the day when it ends. It's like applying for a job and, you know, the period of application close. I don't know the best way it should be, but that's the way it operates. I know. Okay. We should probably double the salary. All right. It's triple. Yeah. Yeah, 20 times the salary we get. There we go. All right. Thanks everyone. And it wasn't, I mean, it was really an interesting process even though sort of a small applicant pool. And I think it's a good idea. I mean, it does feel a little bumpy right now, but I think, you know, having board members at least be able to have some opinion or say or input into the future of our members. I love your appeals page. You should be, have been part of the process that resulted in all of it. It's funny though, I worry that we'll become inbred, whereas the previous process was totally random. Way more random than it should be. Yeah, I appreciate that. I've worked with the mayor of Lafayette his classroom was right across like, it's that close to me. And he's like, oh, that is a crazy, like, it's crazy to have like the city, he thought the city council having to listen to all the interviews was like, that's crazy talk. And then as I could put, we're moving towards this. I think that's a good balance. No, I heard you say you found a person with a broad, I mean, Yeah, yeah. you were touching the basis for me that this is not just you're rehiring Dan or yourself for whatever. I mean, you know, that's silly. No, I mean, our intent really was to continue to broaden and expand the way Great. But my point is, it's just a lot of work for city council and that city council has to want to farm this out a little bit. I mean, there's a lot of work I think it's a good balance. I mean, I think if I had known like just to think about in the future, you know, if we have multiple applicants that are qualified, we could forward those like say we had had right five and we couldn't choose. We could give you five or we can give you one. So they can now having that priority is helpful. So like a roll of dice. Well, you're sitting there on a Saturday or generally it's a Saturday. The question around the council table is how much do we know about what that board or commission needs? And depending on how involved the liaison is again, at times there's not a lot of information per perspective on what a board or commission needs. And then the question is who knows most? Well, it would be the staff and the members of the board or commission would have much better insights than your council members would. And part of the reason I think that the council's a statement process isn't about the amount of work it's less. We're not going to interview people. The reason I went to the council in the first place is that at some point in the past there was a feeling that there was too much cronyism if the interviews occur at this level. But I can tell you there's just as I sat around that table and I can tell you there is as much cronyism around that table. Like who's friends, you know. And whose term is it? Who's a client? You're never going to taste it. Six times. And yeah. But I think you get less of it here. It gets it gets it can get pre-political right around that table. Way less so around this table I think. So I like I like this adjustment that we made. Thanks for your work, you two. Thanks. Yeah we'll get ready someone else has to do it next time. Yeah. We were both in on this. So winding down a year from now with no prospect for further advancement. I know. I think there's a two-term limit. I get one year on this board. That's it. Well then you just like go for work. That's when we tear down all the tennis. Tennis. Nobody's curious on your board. All the parts you've got to get rid of the lake all the things I use we're good luck with that. We're going to turn them down. Let's restart them for pick-a-law. Just show up and read the poll. Okay. Okay. Boulder County Open Space and Shares grant. Yes. Yeah. So I will kick this off. I'm going to show this conversation with Danielle. This is a piece that as the group has been here for a while especially Dan Wolberg you know from his inception the open space program is what worked very closely with Boulder County and their ability is through their the go-go technology get plus their dollars they bring into their tax program they reach out to all the communities within Boulder County and ask how can we partner what do you have out there that we can really work together to meet new to the objective goals and Dan's not here but you know unfortunately I have a relationship with County still Danielle actually worked in the real estate division over at Boulder County for a while too so we've kind of picked up where Dan has worked with the county and said what are those next pieces we want to department the county where we want to kind of look at those opportunities in those those areas and Danielle's been able to go through Dan's computer and pull up a few of those and we can share that also so we can share those what Dan's kind of had out there but one of the things I wanted to tonight Danielle will I think talk us a little bit too is as you look at this and kind of look at our open space program and what we've achieved at Longmont and what we're looking to do are the things that we as staff and we're going to both kind of ask are the things that's still aligning aligning with this group is it is it we really want you to look at those agriculture lands to buck for us from our Eastern community it really is we want to partner with UMDs more of the regional trails out there we really want you just to be ready with something as opportunity to see that family you never thought was going to sell those out there so as Danielle walks through that think about it a little bit and I would like to hear from this group a little bit and where you kind of think we're at with what we we as staff should be looking for because again you're these real estate transactors is willing buy or willing to sell and sometimes those things come up then it's really sure you do have one then yeah so I guess the most recent submission that Dan put together for this city were 2020 requests and the responses came back from Boulder County in 2022 so the year 2021 was skipped I don't know what I'm not sure why but all all the municipalities skipped 2021 so we you know it wasn't just it wasn't just us so the responses to our 2020 requests we had three open space requests I'm not going to get what you're trying to do and three trails requests so and since I don't come to this group often I don't know how much you know about these things but I can tell you this and then hopefully we can have discussion in questions but Adam Derry and then Boulder County conservation easement on the four private lots so this is way across this is the one we got to go to in our tour and these were were these these processes take a while so this is the this is the Adam Derry right there so this is the new property right here that again this board was part of these become focus-based properties here water property here then you write back into the trail down here so this is the Adam Derry that Boulder County is parking with us on and we are getting closed we just put in our fourth extension on this because it really falls into Firestone's ability to work with us and the family because the family really wanted to keep four lots for the family down here actually it's going all the way down to here and that actually helps us because some of these areas have a lot of remediation or old sidely business stuff so they're going to keep this they will then build four lots for the family that that's a minor subdivision process that process takes place in Firestone since it's within their their city so it's been annexing the Firestone so it's on their plate our priorities and I always their priorities but they were working through that and our goal is close by the end of the year so Longmont will be all around that world Firestone and Bonnet Longmont ownership yes Firestone municipality unless we do annex yeah so Firestone is here but this is actually a this is okay we have the ability to annex this up in here at some point okay so Fire response that's how I understand this Fire response right there Frederick Firestone yes Frederick Fire response up above 26 City Longmont you know these have rural fire districts I think Steve mentioned so probably the biggest yeah so non-views probably no one's out in this this area the biggest thing for us that we have found we have properties within other jurisdictions and we should like to annex it it's really for the law enforcement and the range's ability to enforce our rules and rights out there so really if something happens out here it would be well kind of sheriff down here it would be be the Firestone how much it leads to have to deal with it out there and Longmont Fire has IGAs with hygiene, Lyons, Mountain View any other ones as far as response locations and times and if we wanted to build a trail up here and we had to get a grading permit well right now we're going to clean up this house we have to go through Well County if we did something down here we want to do a house clean up and asbestos then we'd have to go with the Firestone and do a process so the more we keep it in-house and finally our process makes it cleaner but it's just working with other entities um and then and so the municipalities submit their requests and then Boulder County takes them in and responds to each of them and so in this you know Boulder County has is already working with us they've committed two million dollars to this for the conservation easement over the agricultural parcel piece of the adventuary so they're already involved even though that none of that is for no but again they take those dollars that that they want to work with their partner communities with a long mind know that's a high value to us to try to make that connection of same-brains stay apart to try to keep that loop that goes down to the Santa Ranch eventually so it is really us working with them and say yeah they they really don't have an interest other than working with the municipal partners to try to make some of these these are just being really nice again it's a kind of residence yeah we're kind of it's been say we're we're kind of residents and we're a portion of that so and they're looking at all the municipalities all around the county and what they're what they're submitting Louisville Lafayette yeah and you know found a lot of that and so next it's the parcel east of Clover Basin Reservoir which is a fortune-maker parcel so this is a piece down here so this is one again Boulder County Health with this one too this is McLaughlin the major of the Clover Basin as a peer and I'm sorry to see if you get hit our on that for my real sure does everyone know we're out of peers this is a lot of them in reservoir down here Steve just talked about the dry creek or dry creek yeah dry creek up in here and then this is approved there that's that's that's that's that's that's to keep that as a more natural area it really is that's the places that that I was again going to try to ease in that conversation about how we try to do that balance of you know many people for these natural areas so here really let's keep it more natural potentially put a loop pill around this and then maybe a bird line or something because it really does draw a lot of migratory words on there a lot of people who are yeah so instead of being such an intensive place for activities no pickleball no baseball field sorry but someplace people go out there and truly maybe do some now motorized just canoeing out there but really the biggest thing is preserve the wildlife and and put some potential for the blinds and stuff like this and people watch that there's a piece of profit down here and I'm not sure that's this one here or this one up here there isn't something I think it's so I see it of course they all sign quite often but it allows us to tie into it and make some connectivity down to the AHA property down here a lot of for some potential parking because there really is a great tight because this is all areas we want to preserve down here because of these salt wetlands and kind of grasses and stuff and wildlife down here so if we could get something down here potentially put some sort of trail area gate connection coming under the road coming this way up from the AHA property this property here logman rice board has a trail around it and then there's actually a what's the blue sky loop isn't it that's right that's right right around blue sky loop right here in the lead so it's just north of log and then going up 75th loops along down by these ponds and then comes back down along these private property lines there so that's the blue sky trail and then what Steve would I think it's probably a good head down here but what Steve would like do would be come in from this dry creek area like to go to underpass on 75th to connect the dry creek trail that extends all the way from soon to be some set street yeah west to 75th and then connect connect AHA and then maybe an underpass that goes up to to to clover basin clover basin the Nelson maybe we can get out way without an underpass it's just the sight lines are pretty tough and a lot of speeding about it right like like in big how it isn't in about there so probably so Ken now is that that's an approved project or it's a project that's being submitted that's yeah so we submitted it to boulder county as you know this is something that is a priority for us will you partner with us and their response was that whenever the opportunity becomes feasible and funding is available basically like when you're ready to meet with us come meet with us because we've got something that we you know we've got some things that we need ducks need to get into a row before we can go to them so it's kind of it was carried forward from the previous report so I think he's keeping it on the forefront by doing it two years in the row there and their response in 2019 was like well it's not even in it's not even in the five year that's not that one they're saying yes they're saying yes come to us when we're ready hey we're just waiting for a landowner to be wanting to sign yeah I think right now it's probably a landowner we want to sell and you know we oftentimes open space programs get accused of you know increasing market rates because we pay higher than market the piece on that is when you have these these assemblage pieces it's like we say go get a comp as well like when you have a house with two you know four bedrooms two baths you find another another house with four bedrooms and two baths can you find another piece of property that allows for parking next to a reservoir to protect the wildlife area and allow Steve to tie into it so there really isn't going to comp a lot of times those things that really come with what they call a assemblage piece to put this piece together you need that oftentimes the owners know that and it really does inflate the cost sometimes but we are going to be reasonable with taxpayer salaries so we're not going to pay something that can be brought into this could be right there it really could be a big mansion sitting there at some point we probably would not be able to be peed with that but we definitely want to willing sell our employees to negotiate a price that we think is fair and we do on the other pieces yes yeah the third open space request this last time was Highland Ditchwater rights if if while on successfully purchase the old lander property which is 150 acres the request is for Boulder County to help restore the original four shares of the Highland Ditchwater rights to the property and Boulder County is probably willing to partner as soon as that becomes feasible that's their response because that's where we were out what part of our field just right yes all that where it's a little bit north of this so all that there's a piece I want to see it's right here or right here it's got this oil and gas around it I'd go it was that way to the west I thought but I could be wrong this one here yeah so the whole end of property is one that the city prior to me even being here is wanted player again kind of protecting this area all north this watershed north of the new reservoir again in our negotiations we were not picking up we had a developer coming out of out of the area actually out of state and put in a higher offer they then sold the water off of it so it's basically dry land the development they wanted to do to lay us fallen apart so now we're trying to sell us that property at the price that you paid to have water on it so we are still willing against these take a long time sometimes trying to make sure that people understand whether at what we was paying the odd thing is Boulder County has had a mission to try to increase the water portfolio because all of the farms this area because you have this Longmont farms and this Boulder fan farms they're all water short it's really about three and a half acre feet of water per acre really makes it really truly aggregate both farm is usually farm with the proper water so Boulder County was out buying up water and they actually bought the water off that farm when they separated and sold it it's not typically the practice of dry up farms but somebody had already pulled that Highland water off to Boulder County yes so yes and they have they have farms up in this area that definitely can bend from the Highland water so when we reach out and say if we could get that a lender property at a reasonable price would you be able to put the water back on it and that'd be their contribution which is cool and so then in terms of trailer requests there were three dry creek greenway to the loggermen Boulder County's response was that Longmont owns the Loughlin in Fee with Boulder County holding that CE and the county's willing to work with Longmont on a process to coordinate trail planning in the area so please tell me the north end of open sky trail to the new subdivision on the east side of 75th that'd be Steve yeah and he's ever that's right there which which oh Leo McLaughlin which is Lower Basin yes we own the loggermen and so that's the connection there's already an at-grade crossing at Clover Basin Drive crossing right there which is semi-safe there's an island there's a respite island in the road the coverage is going 60 miles I know that's yeah so let's see a long way I don't know as you can see yes but the number has been served very well especially on the trail systems we weren't there that's the next trailer request loggermen to Clover Basin request for a box culvert under Nelson and connecting AHI to Clover Basin Reservoir and then Loughlin the city anticipates the acquisition of the Clover Basin Reservoir recreational lease and master planning this site in Longmont it's 2022 to totally fill the deficit of the I think we did require acquire those recreation rights for the for the I'm stating but they completed that for the loggermen for for no for Clover Basin Clover Basin yes for the Nelson yes he did yes he did okay well this is a little old I'm sorry the county has not identified staffing or funding this is in the three-year planning horizon so good new leader right right not quite ready then the last trail request was the St. Gray and Greenway phase as well one that goes west from Golden Ponds that we were talking about not to look go ahead yeah go ahead yeah to to Pella Cross the Boulder County Pella Cross long-awaited requesting trail funding to be included in the County CIP to make this connection and Boulder County says that they will be developing a trail plan for the Greenway corridor between Pella and Airport Road that utilizes the fee acquisitions of the Golden Heart Fredstrom Dweck properties scheduled to be completed in 25 and 26 respectively so that's what we were yeah 25 and 26 staff will work to plan and design a Greenway trail in this area prior to acquisition in 2026 so that construction can commence from final application so with a Greenway trail does that mean that all that has to be a paved trail or no the city builds our Greenway trails paved the County builds their salt surface so we'll transition from concrete on the west side of Airport Road to salt surface heading west of Pella okay share your thought on that were you were you I'm I'm just I'm just picturing where I'm going to run versus where I'm going to bike that's all I was picturing on that it really is like ooh salt surface so we took helps my knees but we typically in that design Steve can correct me but on the cities I take it's a 10 and three it's a three foot crush fund we have to know we have to know we have to know we have to know we have to know we have to know we have to know we have to know exactly so so it's a three foot crush fund do a good job to try to balance those multiple uses yeah the old trails yeah so are you guys so these are all sort of in the past are you going to be making proposals that's what that's bringing this to you is for this discussion because the next round is due by February of 2023 and then I think they'll respond you know somewhere in September so six is usually like I'm seeing six months in these three that I have so so I think we what we have other damage Daniel would you like just kind of the ones we really have on the ground just like review it yeah the ones we so out of dairy is like check that's kind of they're right with the money and I'm at if I block maybe I'm at but we have the the trail kind of connection we have the water for the four shares of water at the Highland Ditch water rights let's go with Olander the parcel east of Clover Bay is next to the block one which is 14 acres and then those are the open space three and then the trails were dry creek greenway to Laugerman Laugerman to Clover Basin and St. Gray and Greenway Bay's 12 which is going west from Olander and are these those of you're asking for whether we think because we don't do those right we request these again or I'm not sure what yeah I think it's hard because I feel like yeah you're getting limited context right you're just being like what damn did last year and I have more context because I see what did you know I see it from the previous year and then in 2015 what I also saw is the full reports and you know how other communities did it what they're asking for you know how they're putting it forward you know how many open space requests how many trail requests you know every every community does a little bit differently but what I noticed is that we're requesting just a short list of things you know and so take that for what it is that's what I noticed compared to some other communities so so do you think it would be I mean given that we don't have to submit anything to February should we put this on the agenda again next month and it seems like I think it would be really helpful discussion right now but yeah just look what if there can we have more information and I think we can give you more information so that you can have a more robust association the discussion is do we want this is that the is that the the stuff that David was saying at the beginning in terms of in terms of priorities why are we putting putting these forward as a community you know what are the priorities are we are we really you know at are we trying to balance it are we trying to put six things forward and we're making sure that we're preserving special agriculture community buffers you know what is the list is that what we're trying to do is to balance all those things we're really trying to hit agriculture hard because we see a gap in the community that we really need because we're almost moving to a time where we're we're there are fewer things to buy and and and and they're harder to buy and so we have to make tougher decisions and you know staff is moving into more managing what we have and things like that so so the conversation should be around what are the priorities and what are the city priorities now that things are more limited to buy I don't know if that makes sense like if we're looking we're looking like we really need a buffer I'm really afraid that we're going to grow grow into Erie and Erie is going to grow into to Longmont there's not going to be any delineation we should look into you know buying Tanaka or something like that okay that's that makes sense so do you want us to say I think we should look into buying Tanaka I think those big pictures so when you go that specific or you could start I think what I'd like to hear is we have looked at our neighbors directly to the east and we've always just started being about frail connections and buffers towards Erie I've heard that a little bit it hasn't been something that I look back at the request I've seen in the past that has really been there but those are the pieces as this program develops and we really want to see where you put these scarce resources to do something that is strategic I think makes sense I think one of the things that we have is the follow back is that here's what we put out there are those in alignment we have frail connections we have some open space are those the ones we say yeah let's just go ahead and keep that in that plate for this year and we as a group we can come back and and prepare for the next year or we say we want to have a more robust conversation the next month that you before February I mean I still think that we can all think about it you know one thing that we've talked about previously in this group is just sort of building connectivity especially along the record orders and you know I'm particularly interested in sort of anywhere where we still have intact habitat and can build sort of losing four hours for habitat you know that would be a priority for me personally that I would want to talk about and when you were saying underpasses my thought for the underpasses wasn't people can look right and left but I really would like you know a deer you know I want the deer to be able to get through I want the mountain lion to be able to get through so that he can go sit in somebody's garage or something like that so I'll look back to something that we talked about a little earlier on that's one of the reasons we have hours on our parks because you know those animals are pretty pussier it's not eternal and if we aren't using those with human activity this time that is where wildlife actually gets to use those corridors those parks and stuff there so if you look at our our wildlife cameras it's amazing how much wildlife comes up after people leave and we get mountain lions coming through underpasses we get deer coming through underpasses that are probably weren't designed as do you think is what we were that akin to deer like right there's really no reason not you know like why aren't we building those and then like with them forward instead of us forward I don't think there's anything we do that in our designs that precludes wildlife traffic or movement but I mean really thinking of that forward not like I really like that I mean I'm really glad that the city's thinking about that clipper basin reservoir and because there is so much water fall there and the pots and micro troopers and you know I think anything we can do and build that and sort of connect it to there's like you know some natural and natural-ish areas you know on that sort of west and south of the side and then connecting up into the foothills right and then you know building connectivity from the foothills up to St. Grayd State Park you know like if you're a yeah migrating animal right and then hopefully from St. Grayd State Park and we have that the barefoot lakes region and all that stuff that we don't have much say over but it would be nice if those communities who start working with us because those communities are going to be big down right yeah the you made some great point there and I would as you're thinking through this this is the map and the city website of the open space property now I don't know how current this is unfortunately there's Danielle Shakerhead know there's other acquisitions that we've made my government's that aren't shown right well it's not shown as a county but yeah um this might be a starting point if you're concerned about buffering and then the Boulder County just released a new trail map and that shows the trail connectivity between counties or at least in Boulder County doesn't capture the efforts that Danielle is making having to get out to well County communities in the east but those are some things that can help you help frame your your your context as far as what your goals are I really think that that might be something that helps you when you're you're thinking about this another thing to remember is that we're lucky in Longmont in that we don't rely at Boulder County to build a lot of our trail system for us other municipalities smaller municipalities within Boulder County do rely greatly on Belba County funding for those type of things we are lucky enough to have in our street tax in our parks and greenways to feed mechanisms to develop funds to fund our trails and so where Lafayette might be asking for 20 things we don't have to ask for 20 things we already have funding mechanisms for some of those things obviously you can try to stretch your dollars where there's opportunities but we some other municipalities that are smaller might be asking for more things just because we've got a wish list fun if we're looking at things like you know human life like we're also interconnected all of East County is so interconnected and well in Boulder like you know as people and as as animals and all that stuff it's okay to let some of the other municipalities get some of those resources because they can't because that's that's part of our community too whether we say whether or not they're not it is part of our community so it's Louisville so it's Boulder and that's all our community we so could we put this on the agenda then next month and just talk specifically about priorities and if Danielle if you were in the next other perspective that you want to bring to share with us then I think I'll be sure to do you want to share and update it over the space map with grab before I love you yeah that would be great that's easily accessible now I'm putting you on the spot yeah I don't know I found one today I'm just looking I want to see we'll walk through them and I want to see I don't have a data on it that would be great let's come back yeah I'm sure that the map is going to make a little it's happy that's right well yes that's the thing yeah is there a future Dan so we're to be named so we are I'm just on the process of looking that you know Dan has grown that position from just Dan running the first open space program before we had a properties to having the open space program and properties to manage those open space properties to then saying well you manage weeds why don't you manage the weeds at the water treatment plant and then it's like we manage trade-offs in open space so why don't you manage the trade-offs at the airport and then you want to manage ecological and natural resource stuff on open space so why don't you do the landfill so there's a lot of pieces to the advanced job as I kind of look at what we need to do is define those roles and how best we could advertise those that I haven't gone out to to advertise yet but I but there is money there is money there we're doing a place for that position or in the meantime I basically you too are covering it so we're yeah we're taking on all the dance stuff and then Jim Crick and I are taking on how the prairie dog management mosquito management the weed management and then the natural resource side of it so thank you Daniel and the time scale for a replacement is not before February right that's why we have to be pinpointing correct having our discussions we don't need that this process because we we got it we got it got it we got it thank you we didn't need the end for that either so now thank you Daniel so I'm just looking at I think it when we get to 830 we have to vote to extend our time I think you're right that it was 9.07 so now we're y'all so do we I mean we're at the end of our business do we want to extend for 15 minutes? 30 minutes? see you Matt do we have someone to speak? no now Matt just he just likes to get us hit around I was wondering if he was one of the ones you guys interviewed so I no signalling and he wasn't he was the late cover that was the question I so he's like I forgot oh did he check it in some out you know I don't think so about he can talk to the court's office and see if he can get it man I yeah I think they're just exploring this process the first time I don't think he was interested in calling yeah yeah he was interested in calling but yeah he called me the day after the last two weeks yeah yeah I I think we expect extend 15 more minutes to zoom in through the next uh a little bit I moved I moved that did you have a second? sure I'll second then all right hey her all right 15 minutes so does anyone have any items from the packet any questions from the updates when we're provided yeah I mean so I think it's for Steve the the the place oils being moved from Clover this area over time while we're noticing people or like the area I mean because it's going to be like people are going to be like okay it's February I'm going to go sledding and they're going to be like what where are you I don't have anything to notice yet because I don't know the course it's not a contract that's going to come from the city the core where a plan and core will hire their own contractor once I get a construction schedule it's not going to be it's going to be one of the first things I do it's not going to be the first thing so it's going to be a bit of a quick turnaround but I plan to have our communications team figure out how to best message that to I'm trying to rely more on our communications team because they're professionals and they have access to all these different ways to do things that I don't I don't even Facebook and all that stuff so they they'll figure out a way to alert the public in the best way but yeah some sort of notice will be important but it's probably going to be like March of the earliest that's what I was thinking is that when I looked at that timeline and so that would be after this sledding season and it'll be sad for the next one but you just don't want to do it right in the middle of the sledding I we will not have control over the timing of that the contractor will start taking care from the contractor starts at the beginning I'm just thinking I'm just thinking I'm just thinking she's thinking again yeah right I was actually looking at that hill the sunrise and figure the tricky trot and they were going to be taking almost two-thirds of that hill away and then bringing it back but I was actually looking at the contract document last week and the contract is required to do a topographic survey of that hill before they start construction pull the dirt away bring back dirty and create the exact same hill really yeah make it better with a little stealer it's what's free in the dirt it's a ten-thirt it's a ten-thirt ten-thirt hill remember that hill right Creek Park it's exciting it's not temporary you went in for like last 10 years last year you've got a plan now here that's box number three right all right other items from the packet I have one that's related you mentioned St. Graham part of the greenway your their team as well as West 13th oh we've just passed a bond issue oh yeah resulting from yes yes yes is that years in the future or what when when does that happen with you know is this a design bill thing coming up or I will be on the team but we'll be looking at how to best issue those bonds that's what probably a six nine month process is my guess higher consultant if we don't extend the existing contract that we that did all the design so far which I'm surprised we didn't but um we'll be that jumps right into the list here not this list that is that is that is that is your that project is what takes me away from this list that is and that is not our plan that's just I'm the subject matter expert for all the stuff that they're doing that's being run by engineering Josh Sherman's the project I'm already on that okay yeah so Josh was here the last time each time yes I saw that right that so Josh depends heavily on Steve he also depends on um Jim Jim Karak and Daniel has been involved with it too so we're again it's it's hardware growing everyone our such professionals group and they add such value so it's it's hard to say we're pulling people off to focus on stuff but you know we're trying to see keep Steve involved with that but also recognizing that this has been the priority and we have other people looking hopefully help out a little bit too but okay well your little update about resilience St. Gray reminded me that hey we just heard about that a week ago so and uh the updates didn't do you justice this because I was in Las Vegas no no no that's fine Kathy wasn't doing so anyway they'll be back back to do it for Dan this month yeah but yeah we don't plan to sit on that we plan to move forward on that and try to get the project complete and that realistically was 2023 I know 2026 like that's I'm I'm well following here it's going to take a while to design it and we've got to build it there is a little bit of way in that position doing the west side of uh whole work so it's it's going to take some work yeah I'm remembering when we passed the golf course bond issue and zip this happened that for example for weeks about one new they haven't been clubhouse want to burn down right but there was yeah it was what we passed what I voted what I voted for was an irrigation system it is my understanding and this is not the golf board but there are trying to get a project manager on board to manage what right that's why I was asking we just kind of you know are we going to do better than that on parts do you creep things sounds like yeah which is part of that bond is almost ready for construction I'll say that okay that's getting close sorry that was sort of on the packet so something I saw on the packet that I was said like a suggestion about it was eight on there and item eight on ecosystem management is that staff is doing bird monitoring surveys at union and then staff will also be doing fish surveys and I'd like Taylor to do some more work is what I want to know she's going to be mad but really I I feel like that's stuff that the public would enjoy helping out with I feel like that as a product those are projects that are high value volunteer projects for the volunteers and for you all too it's not the Daniel you know there is opportunity especially on the bird stuff if you have students or people interested in doing that Taylor is overall managing the volunteer program but Scott our wildlife biologist is working with the third volunteers and so you know and and so each year we we've gotten a raptor nest monitoring program as well as you know songbird monitoring at different places and that expands and contracts as needed but depending on your level of expertise as a volunteer you know everything about birds and you kind of need a pair if you want to do songbirds or if you're not an expert and you want to learn and you want to go out there or somebody you can be paired up with them and you can record which you can learn from them you know there those are those opportunities are are there part of our testing programs but they're not yeah they're not they're not like on the daily calendar for the volunteer events in that same way they're the ones that said the ongoing yeah so I just would I wanted to make sure that these were part of it because I've looked that you's had this and like fish fisheries that's like super fun like fisheries that's really it's for that school so that's us doing it with cvd along with the state and so that's them doing it and us we're helping them out we're volunteers kind of on us we're the volunteers there because it is super cool it is super cool so the state might have that opportunity for fish shocking because I I you know I I've been out with volunteers in other counties where the state is taking volunteers you know but yeah that's that's cvd and I would say our our third binary program is probably one of our longer running volunteer programs had that I think he's one of the best to I mean should hold a county see if they'll have great ones but Longmont really does have you really strong it's a really important program too because we're doing that in places where you know we're we're we're thinking about how do we want to develop this area or you know what's going to happen here and what are we planning for this area so we do bird surveys ahead of that to figure out what what exactly we have you know it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a it is a piece that we don't really go on private property but with the birds we definitely have nesting sites that we know are adjacent to in a lot of language and code is saying that if you're aware of those plots so we can ground through so if we get a a contractor that comes out of nothing on this property like but we know there are nesting bird sites that's you know migratory birds or that is our eagles and yeah the raster program is really fun too because you get assigned the nest for a season and you can come back if you want to or you don't have to I did it as a volunteer with my son and he was eight and so we got the camp come to the same nests we were looking at the osprey nests in the gulf course out of out of out of out of out of out of the except what's going out of the except what's going out of the except what's going and we got that we were the the spot that we thought about viewing it from was off the busy road and I was like well I like this and so we were in the neighborhood on the cul-de-sac and neighbors were coming out in the morning and telling us what they saw and you know so it was it was really fun to to do that and you learned a lot you know about the binoculars about the raptor about the season of the raptor about you know yeah and we're gonna see the babies and how long did they sit on the eggs so cool thing okay good I just want to make sure that there was volunteer stuff going there and then apparently there's well there should be there should be there should be I don't know that's really good you know okay cool so I had a question just sort of on a different side I'm excited to see the guys for the this opening and just wanted to see if everything is it good can you keep that machine running for the next couple days is it is there a are you looking stop and things are together and there's no like we have been practicing on schedule we revved up the The chiller last week was running at 15% until Monday today and the park came in and they were able to get it going at 100% now and keeps us on track. The cool weather is helping the fund to make ice so we're going to have to be ready on Friday. You can just use my feet, I swear to God. I know lots of kids that are excited for it. It's gone, it's gone real well. You're crossed. Awesome. It doesn't blow apart at any moment. It's a pretty unique special resource. We're excited about coming to Antri set up. Yeah, thanks a lot. It'll be new, so it'll be a little bit challenging, but it's going to be helpful. Any other questions from the pocket? Any items from staff? I think you've done that on my topic. Can I give you an update even now for it? Sure. Yeah, because I have a couple items in there. Item under ecosystem management, button rock management plan. This went to print. And I had the more updated update about that is that we're well into writing the document, which is going to be four chapters. Chapter one, chapter two are complete. Chapter three, we're almost done with, which is the long, long chapter, the existing conditions of everything that was found in the data gathering things. And then chapter four, which is going to be our management direction, implementation priorities. So we were hoping to come to you with our, I was hoping to come to you. So that presentation and, but it just wasn't, there was no way that I could get that done and give you enough time to review a large document. So we pushed it to the first quarter of 2023 to come to you. And so I just wanted to tell you that and to ask if you're, if you're getting a new member members, are you, do you know at this point, are you going to keep your same time slot Mondays and most likely 2023 because I'm going to play on using that whether I'm going to, you know, and will you meet in January because I'm, I'm trying to schedule either coming in January or January to present to you. We will, I mean, I think it's really unlikely we'll change our plan meeting place or time. I mean, it's kind of the same as the bubble plan out here. You too. And we'll meet, I mean, we've always met and had a chance. Okay, so that's a plan. We've had a placeholder for a button rock of like, pushing it. So I had a little. And I wanted to give you the details of why and what is going on right now and how we have come and how we wouldn't want to slight the process right at the end and slap something together and not give you the time that you need. So that's. So Danielle has done way more than our contract would have thought she would have had to do to make this light. She's really had to step up and take on a lot of work that I think we would have expected others to have been doing. Thank you. The one thing I had is, I don't know if you noticed, but one of the first, one of the students complained about the park being close to dark. It's the first effort. So we're going to change anybody in the community complaining about the park being close to dark. Just. And I did not do that. That's quite. At all. I just. No, I mean, like you, you should have seen the what they didn't know they were doing this except for the students that are planning that plan this stuff. But the, the lead up to it was how do you feel in this park? What, you know, what, what feels right? Like what, like what does this remind you of all this stuff? And like the, the prompts and things that they led to it. And, and that's what. I love doing this stuff. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I hope it was nice and sorry that I didn't have more of our lawn monsters, but the counties, the county like this is all our community. Anything else? Okay. And we can have a motion to adjourn. I know we adjourned. All those in favor. All those in favor. Great. Good. Okay, I need to discern.