 Yeah, so I guess we can do introductions right now. Sure. And then keep going. Sure. So, hi, I'm Erin Marchak. I work with my planet out of Toronto. I am an Associate Director of Drupal Practices, and one of the areas that I particularly enjoy focusing on is accessible development. And I have frequently had the pleasure of working with David. Great. I'm David McDonald, and I'm on the WCAG team. So, I had a full head of hair when I began. That's what I was talking about yesterday. And my voice sounded really great. I tried to be a rock star and didn't work out so well for me, so I sound like this all the time now. And so I know WCAG really, really well. I know I was involved with every fight and every vote of every success criterion. And don't ask how you make a hot dog. That's the one thing you want to really make sure is, you know, it's a messy process, making the standard that's going to be worldwide, because we have a lot of stakeholders. And we have to be able to balance the needs of people with disabilities with the needs of the developers. And to come up with success criterion that are achievable, testable, that are internationalized, you can be internationalized, you can go across languages, you can go across technologies. Very, very difficult. So I've been with the WCAG team since 2002 now. So I know the standard really well. And feel free to ask me all those questions that you thought you'd never be able to get answers about WCAG. But today is about 2.1, and there's a lot of stuff to cover, so we'll be moving pretty quickly. Cool. Yeah. So we'll be covering updates 2.1. We're not going to be covering anything. Regarding the 2.0 guidelines, a lot of the guidelines and the acceptance criteria are inherited from 2.0 to 2.1. But in general, how many people here are familiar with the guidelines individually? Yeah, okay. Cool. So the point that I would like to point out to you, identifying the requirement of the guidelines, just to remember every once is already all familiar with them, is that they are technology-agnostic. So this talk, while it won't be approval-focused, since we are talking about technology-agnostic guidelines, we're going to try and pull them into housing-impact individuals who are working with people from the development, site-building, or viewing perspective. So you've got to have an idea of what they'll look like from a guideline perspective, from a governance perspective, and from a practical application perspective. Yeah, and the reason that they're technology-agnostic is because... Technology-changing is how often? What do you mean? Yeah, there's a teacher who says, as you read this, your computer just went out of sleep, right? So it takes about 10 years to get standard, and it's going to be a lot clearer for the weekend to come up with what we're hoping, but it takes a long time, and technology is really quickly. So, a very brilliant professor over at Madison, Wisconsin, Ray Vannon Heights, you know, this idea of, let's say, technology-agnostic, pull up the idea behind it, formalize those, and then use our techniques to hang technical specifications off of them, and in that way, it can change the notes every six months under the heavy machine process, but it's really difficult to get the standard here. So when you leave that language out of every green network, that's why we came to 1-0 last for three years, and it's still going to be important today, so we're still going to have an update to it now. The cool part about the update is that you're using GitHub, how to do different control, and how to session regarding the updates, so these slides, so you're going to follow mine now at emailjack.com, one step new, that's in, that's with it. Whoo! They all have links to the individual GitHub text file, but it leaves, so if you can comment on if you have any questions, it's really good to have issues, and I'll talk more about that later. Yeah, just one thing about that is those links probably just go to the text, which is the locket, manifestation of them, so I can show you how to get to the issue numbers. Yeah. Cool. So yeah, let's move the new success criteria I can recommend for Victor, as he mentioned, the old ones as an inheritance order go through all the new ones, or A and double A. The old ones touch a bit at the time, and publishes later on, but it's only a few. Yeah, that's, that's right now. Cool. And if you have any questions, or comments during the presentation, please raise your hands, I'll give them a key you can ask, so if you can actually have a little bit of a discussion the Q&A on the individual criteria if anything possible. And the first thing is that every one of the success criteria that I'm in, 2.0 are also 2.1. So if you meet the 2.1, you will meet the 2.0 also. That was one of the criteria we had, except this criteria for the game 2.1. Cool, let's go. So level A, I think it does not force people to recall a password. OK, so this was from the cognitive task force. And they're basically saying, it's really really tough to memorize numbers and memorize your passwords, all that kind of thing. So you have to be able to reset the password to your link, which most people will do in these days. This is what the last is it. Or you can just get it in there and use it as your copy and paste to get it sent to you. So in other words, the whole idea of OK, you have to do this add these fractions in order to get into your authentication. I've got to know when we fail to do line up on it. You can use it, but you can't do line up on it. So I'm in the application and practical perspective using the standard password and send them. So as I mentioned, that's super great. Slack does a great feature where you can use just the password you send it the day he was requested instead of dealing with the password. Or using a social login that allows people to kind of bypass the standard recall methods. So if you have a go off Facebook login, put a button, you will follow those to give you a month, which that actually helps to improve that situation. What about potential? Can you understand? I've heard recently I've been paid an application and it forced me when you're setting up the password to enter it twice. And the second time I wasn't on the health company in case things weren't, it was obviously forcing you to make sure that you weren't lost. Is that something that is kind of handled? Is that pass? Is that the point? Well, the interesting thing is this particular success factor is very familiar right now. There's a lot of state holders. There's a lot of state. So, I wouldn't say right now that's a fail as long as you don't have to memorize it. You know, now the whole topic is not what you're talking about. Is there another way you can send that password again? You can't and that would fail this and more. So it's like you should set up an application. OK, so the third period is the initial set up. I'll show you now. You can't, yeah. So that would fail as a success factor. Yeah. Interesting thing about that. And I would say to me a lot of state holders, this is the first draft that's coming out. It has a whole, you know, a whole kind of consensus on it. So these ones you're seeing right now, the entire review is ordered yes for it. But some, they've been ordered for yes with a little bit more of a cap. I do want to find out what the world says. So what are the issues you have? So do we now, when you're breaking up the guidelines, whether they're A, A, L, A, or? Yeah, these are the same way first. Cool. So next one, we also get the, I have my camera a little bit very sensitive, like me. Cool. So people must be able to override the word shortcuts. The actual name of this success criteria is character key for press. OK. So what is this all about? So people who use this way of actually speaking, they're going to see the word package. And you hijack a key key to close down the email section opens up another cast start, and you get the key key. So the way you use it, and you have the white key hijacked, so they say that we're happy. And it's actually just going to be characters. And all of the actions that are associated with that word are actually having the actions happening. So this requirement will actually stop that. And you have to have a combination of keys. It's a much, much less likely that you actually have to trigger using the right action key if you have more than one key together. However, you can't use this key, but then you do it with your mouth. So Google has a single key shortcut, so it's going to come. And as long as it references, you can turn them off. It's fine. But you need to have your mouth or a map to do that, to trigger your characters. That makes sense? And I think each one is actually going to have a code of what you think is a good idea, not sure, or it's a bad idea. So let's just go back to the first one. Google thought it was a good idea. How many people think it's kind of not sure? How many people think it's going to be really far back? OK, we've got some people who think it's going to be a lot a lot. It's a small thing. Well, I'm going to answer 19. The solution is, I don't see how it's all the same thing. I, of course, you recall the answer a lot, I was saying. But I can say, oh, people are going to be gone. What do you use to make the answer? Well, I don't know what I'm going to say. But I don't see how it's going to work. Yeah, if you forget anything, then you go ahead. You've got my problem. And if you're going on, so I'm going to say it right now, is that actually the success of the game very much? Because there's even a lot of problems with people. Do you get a lot of time to do that? Well, the problem with the answer I'm going to give you is that, yeah, that's the problem of everyone who used to say, you're not sure what I'm saying about the game. Like, it's possible. So I don't think it's all a matter of sort of how to work with those technologies and how to solve it. So if you say they have to go together, it's in a way to use some of the words that I'm going to say. And then they've got to solve it. But this is kind of what I'm going to have to do. Yeah. If I can add to the note, it's forcing people to recall. But it could be using a password manager. So the issue is, I can't talk in base, or I can't use a password manager to apply that password to the practice platform. I have to physically type it in. So the website can use a password blocking or an app to play out. But potentially, a lot of sites that have a lot of passwords can use a dual set, so that the password manager can call it out and talk to you. We have to use a password manager. We have to use a password manager. We have to use a password manager, which is a security best practice in the public. Yeah. And let's take that conversation on what I want. I'm very interested in your thoughts, Mike. And put off people back in the group after I do these talks, and I say, hey, we've got this concern in the bag. It's here in the bag. So let's talk about the client that you're drinking. Do you want to go with them? OK. So who thinks that this is really a good idea in order to limit and who thinks you know to work well to solve all of these kind of naturalistic users? Yes, we've got quite a good mention here. How many people not sure that? OK. About my hands. How many do we need to do that again? OK. I'd love to go off and say that one of the challenges with keyboard shortcuts is how do you deal with multiple content? And a lot of times, the control key works great for English, but it doesn't work great for everyday English. So forcing people to go off and provide for customization and custom keys have the ways to. That would be very happy. And that would be a better approach to keep the project. We're trying to get that in the key point. We didn't get the consensus on it, because it would mean a lot of actually work by developers. And that's what we're going with. Yeah. We're just trying to keep our jobs, OK? Cool. I'm going to keep clipping along. We're still on level A. So the next one is people can only or can use only one finger or one patch point. We are punching in the title of this point of gestures. And that would be not forcing a user to have to use two touch points, such as pinch or zoom or double, triple or ruble swipe in the interface. Yeah. Basically saying, even use all those things, but provide them the way you want them. Or that's required for anybody to have to do everything if you would all your functionality has to be anywhere. However, that would work in a while, and also make that most efficient. So I kind of wish there was an agenda to this that said that the target area had to be all the time. Because I'm helping my mother who has tremor, and I know lots of people have tremor, and it's a tiny target area. That's telling me it is, because you've got it in the back of your head. So do you get the idea? How many years have you been like that? How many people are you not sure? And how many people are you expecting? Who are you? Mike. Mike, I'm sorry. And I should probably take some notes on that. It's not so much that I think it's a bad idea. I think it's an impractical idea. It's impractical. And especially because it brings a lot of development because of GIS. I would bid a lot on the GIS recently. And just to give you the burden of trying to do something through one touch point or one finger, not to do an accessible start. So going this far is just past your own goal. Let's talk about that. Mike, please. Mike, please. I shouldn't have done a game on a piece of paper. Well, no, I did that piece of paper. The key word, which we already required in 19211, this is already required. However, what GIS uses is basically the same. And there's also, which is an American exception. A lot of these are exceptions. And we have language in the success fracturing that needs to be essential to functionality. And so there's a definition of essential in the way that we gave that up. And there's an essential, you know, actually the laws of my style. It's essential in functionality and the way that hopefully I'll address your concerns. Next one. We kind of obsessed with the name. Yep. Equivalent labels exist for visual and non-visual users. So the intention here is that if a num sign user goes through your form, they would see or comprehend the same label as a sign user would be going through. So any kind of short names, adjusted labels, that content is available for both these users. Because frequently developers tend to use more abbreviated texts when it's developing IDs, labels, names. So if something has something related to such a full name or there's additional context provided by visual elements, that's also available for non-visual users. Yes. So this again, as we were writing, we were trying, you know, in our first, we got a lot of criticism in the weekend, too, because we were very blind and historical. And there's a lot of fault for blind people with some of the other people with disabilities felt that groups were recommended with disabilities. But there was an under-recreation. There's a good reason for that, because at the time, this system of language for people with blind was quite mature. There's a series of different apps, there's ladies and men, ladies, you know. And so they were mature when they came. One came out, we came in, two came out, they were very mature. There's not a lot of systems and consures about people with disabilities. There still is a way, really, to simplify language in any way for people with blind disabilities. But there should be, you know, we should have that right now. We should be able to, you know, instead of translating English to French, English, you know, in your second year you should find it. We should be able to do that. Hopefully, you know, with Watson, there's a different idea. But this guy here, there's actually four people and this button says go. So the visual label is go. And then on the input next to it, it says search. So the person who says click go. I think that happens. Right? So in other words, if you have a visual label, and you have a hidden label, there has to be the text that the visual label has to contain within the hidden label. So if you give it to go search, then the person could, the person could say go and click go and work. So that's it. Thank you for understanding the idea. Thanks for the idea. Yeah. I'm already okay. Bye. The problem that comes to mind is that it says it has to be cobalt. So let's say you have an address form and there's two input numbers one after the other. And it says address. You might want to have visually hidden label which is really identified in the second one. You don't want to display that visually if you don't need to. So if you can see it, it's obvious what it means. But on the screen, if you want to have that label there, Google would suggest that you need to display that label in that second one. Well, you should be explaining how to have a visual label for every input. You know, typically, the Pebbleson R3 can be called from the first three to the third one. But these are classic accessibility problems. You should be able to use a visual label anyway. However, this would just require that, you know, how that would work. So you have an address and you have three inputs. One, this is address two. That's one. That's two. Some people would actually want to put it in there. That's not everybody would actually need that kind of disability to actually understand. However, I think in that particular situation, if you had an address on there, what would there be? You can go to the first one and then go to the second one. Click address, and it shows like two. Now, most people use drag visually. If you're blind, you can use drag. You know, I teach people at blind and I've had one user who was, you know, wanted to use drag. There you go. Is that... Anybody thinks of that idea? Okay, so it's good. I just want to go back to that it's also useful I think in another voice in streaming users. So people often don't know what I'm going to represent that, but also we've got all of the future audience, like A's on hold, and Echo on Google. We've got these things that are coming up which are going to need to use these. So this is a good travel that we'll be trying to build in these best practices. I'm quite happy about that. I've heard of testing this, but sometimes it forms in advances automatically. So instead of tapping into the next field, it just does it. The system does it. Do the system lead out of the label? Yeah. If you get your own in the next field which is not a very out of bounds, but if we do get your own in the next field, we will be able to do it. The 70's fault is that we don't have any other label that we're seeing. It's bad practice. Yeah, it's bad practice. I know you said I find it really annoying because you're like, well, look at this. She went in and I knew her. Because you don't know you're tapping away and it's hard to find a path. So so far we have the first one got a little bit of mature, but pretty well since then so this one we're still on the lay. Events are figuring out how to touch up. So this is called active and full activation. So there's three stages to a click. The down, the press, and then the up. If you're handling stuff with JavaScript, you're going to run into this. So in general this would be for if you're doing any custom to the channel to make sure you're only being you're only activating the action on the touch up. If you use the standard JQuery which is bundled into your core you will be doing absolutely fine. So this is, again, one of the ones where if you hijack, you kind of do something and then you will get the code. And you'll find a lot easier to switch in. This is basically don't do dumb stuff. Now if you've got a piano program if you've got a piano program you don't want to have it on the touch up there. So we have the essential exception now. So if you're shooting gallery and you know you can pull the trigger and you can pull it. That would be a very fun game. So we have the essential exception. But generally if you use all the regular manganese this really helps people if they have trouble getting in the right direction and you don't want to find any way they can actually move over to the men lift up and get it to trigger. Otherwise if the down essentially press the wrong thing it will accidentally trigger. So it gives them a little bit more time to think before they let go. Makes sense? How many people think it's a good idea? What do people think it's? Not sure. Okay, tell me. Oh man! I'm getting a weird answer. It's more, well I guess it doesn't make sense to me. So this is like a thing in the scroll bar so there could be click on the scroll bar and it goes down click on the old scroll bar and it goes down I guess it's versus it gives them a touch up and what are they going to do? Hold it the rest? Well actually when you click the scroll bar once it's on the output and it's still on the output. But you can also hold and it will also be back to you. So it happens on the press and it's on the operation. Yeah, so. I'm pretty sure that the old station was like adjusting maybe to whatever you're tracking so people really really often said that the scroll bar will have less output and that would keep momentum or it would keep charging at your laser cannons. Yeah. How does the difference between holding and trigger work when you see sticky keys? It's keyboard it's basically holding so it's actually not part of the web setting it's part of the operating system it's part of the dose but I think it's not affected at all it's its own it's one of its technologies. Yeah. But it's not it's not a web app it's not a part of the web app it's created in almost any piece something like that but how is it mapped like if you've got in your browser you've got the ability to pull down the same scroll bar in your in your scroll mechanism I would take the button for the page when you're scrolling. Okay, so I hear that they're mapping, sticky keys are mapping to one of those what would it be? Well, I'm not sure when you say sticky keys do you mean nose keys? I think you might be meaning nose keys I think you might be meaning nose keys in that manner the number pad to mice analysis is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's a different part of that swing of the setting Yeah, so nose keys we'll just say ways of noses exactly and so when you pull down the arrow key it's still part of the operating system there's nothing not to do to normalize the sticky keys in your just an action to nose in the needles so I don't have to ask me anything about that but that one over the whole position, that's an important consideration I'll think about that in the movie I appreciate that. Another reason why it's important is that this is getting recorded and it's back to the rigor document so this is to provide another way to get the device that makes info so the example here, and I think this is really important to understand, is if your application depends on shaking, tilting orientation you don't force just that method, there can be other ways to get that information so if you've shaped an unview there's going to be another way of action so this one I'll just tell you about it there's quite a bit of of a discussion it's evidently there's a lot of public comment I haven't talked about it because it actually has already been met by the WK211.1 which is a keyboard and you should have ever been one to a keyboard so you must provide another way you know, this is actually not the exact language of it but the exact language of it there we go great so the all functionality of the product can be operated without becoming a specific device that your information unless the device that you're in is essential for the function and not easy to invalidate the activity so they do have to get an instruction so that's what we're not through but however we only require the functionality of the keyboard so if you need 3.1.1 you're going to need this now there's people on group who feel that they need to do some things to it to make sure that people can still make things work on mobile and not just the keyboard and so that's what we're exploring in these next couple of months 2.1, if I get it right they should go here to the center so even in four months it's actually going to go to the side but a lot of people are quite they think it's a really good idea and I've learned over the years since 2002 I've learned that when I have been painting on something and I see a lot of different opinions it's very important to listen to those other opinions and to see what people are thinking so how many people think this is a good idea or super how many people think that's way too wide and how many people think it's a good idea and how many people think it's a really good idea to get it in some form it's not a lot of momentum here Mike Steele he said the price is great but you can't necessarily assume maybe you've got a little bit of an emotion in some way the other way to do it it's like the emotion you can shape it to undo but you should have that idea to fix yourself that's really what they're talking about so when you're out in the woods if you've got another means to do this you'll find it a perfect or difficult so people think it's a good idea so Mike Steele he asked you like it is that right how many people think it's a good idea I'm not sure it's a lot of not sure how many people think it's a bad idea so a lot of ambivalence there it's kind of how I feel too to be honest and I'm just taking this down because I'll take it back to the group you guys are making a difference right now you're changing the force of history to find a means exactly what you're saying it's going to get through it's going to get through that's what you're saying and just to follow up on that there is a body that says that really accessibility and universality are not necessarily goals that are achievable and they should be hard to phrase this but working towards universality can be kind of an endgame at least so it feels a lot like the end of the incident endgame at least you guys are changing things those people that I work with that are in that are facing issues of disability they actually have devices that are specific to their particular needs and that is in a way a better group working towards universality can be problematic because there are holes and the holes can't be addressed so that's a very deep philosophical discussion we can have it's kind of like it's a product of discussion apps versus weather it's kind of like those discussions thousands of that I don't think it's as I was saying but I think if we add that explanation into the keyboard accessibility it would be much better so the people in that panel we're a little nervous to open up 2.1.1 because as soon as you open something up it's like Pandora's Box and everybody wants to change and then people say they changed the WCAG and there's a requirement that changes up the WCAG too in order to add on to 2.1 so there's a little bit of political issues of whether we want to start merging we're going to be looking at that though whether we should merge this into 2.1 there's people who are saying that also which is a good point ok well that gives me a lot of good information ok we're finally on the double A so this is a bit more scripted this is one I'm really excited about so zoom content the phrasing of this is interesting but the functional aspect of it is that you have to have the thoughts of design down to the cross another 320 basically which fingers crossed everyone is already doing but it's at least there and if you're using it you have to have the box as an in-menu when you pull 7 it's just going to be running into it but before because it's not by people it's not responsive but that means that there's a lot of again in the concept of design because of the best practice that's going on just trying to reinforce that and define it a little more clearly this did have a lot of discussion and one of the best things you've ever had with low vision in the last decade is responsive design because people on my desktop they get that control plus from their wheel the thing opens up and in the old days they'd have to horizontally scroll across the real line of text and when you start scrolling across the visualized text you're talking about a lot of the low vision community it's been trying to solve this linearization keep everything within the new port and grab properly for years and as soon as responsive design came out it was just like I'm at any point and suddenly it goes into the new port so people are looking at a mobile view on 24 inch screens just go back there's a lot of people doing that and so it's really important it's huge now there have been considerations in China there's not much responsive design right now in a lot of Asian countries so we're not sure what's going to happen we really want this to get through we hope it's going to get through North American, First World, Europe it's not going to be harder I'm going to have to make a decision at some point whether we're just going to push it here and say this is a big program this is what needs to happen go ahead and do it it's something really great idea to do and responsive is a really great idea now there are a lot of exceptions in here so this was probably years and you know it's basically there's some exceptions except for perhaps the content that you require two dimensional layout or usage so it's talking about tables you know tables that are big wide tables that you can't get any responsive or that kind of thing so there are some large images there are some situations where where you know it may be required to horizontally zoom but this is really going to give a lot of teeth to the WCAG 2.1 so there's a new there's a discussion I've done a lot of work with publishing which is now 5W3C there's a new well it's by-the-shelf solutions for tables to come down and one of the alternatives between 8W3C is to take all the headings and apply them as there's a lot of reasons why there's a lot of tables now there's a lot of great work happening with it but we're not going to require it because it's just a little bit too rough so we're not going to require responsive tables because there's going to be situations where it's just not appropriate so we're going to have of course we'll have best practices in there but the WCAG it can't quite so handy and it has some exceptions on some of the things otherwise it just won't be acceptable and the legislation won't pass it oh wait for the QA she goes everywhere she goes across the country with her bicycle so this is nothing for her it's just a nice bike trip you mentioned there's a lot of results that I think in China is that just to make sure the way that they recognize you you know what I don't think it's strange because there's serious response so I don't think it's got anything to do with the characters I think it's just a natural thing that just hasn't happened yet and I think there are apps instead of web apps so more people are on their phones we don't really know the reason for it to be honest we just have heard that and we don't even have first-hand experiences people have told us that we may want to watch out for that we can push this through cool conventional names of elements can be determined programmatically what this is is that if you're using short names machine names of elements they can be using programmatically to determine what it is so if you have a first name field the name of the field what would be the first name as an example of that the cognitive community has had a really hard time knowing what stuff is the name to act name the accessible name but a lot of times if people are not using commissioning like whole name courier contact first name, last name all those things there's actually a list of 15 of them which is at 5 which is actually 75 you've got to do the job down list of different inputs what people want to do eventually is the cognitive community is looking to have to recognize with a programmatically recognizable way to identify common elements and then strip everything out off page with assistive technology so they'll take your page and then strip it down in your assistive technology so they can just see what's really really important for the things and so this is actually just kind of laying the landing pad for that and then get the next version of WCAG basically it's still very fluid right now it's one of those things I'm not sure if they'll get at any point one or not we have pretty serious discussions about it however what we'll eventually do is that there'll be a set of extensions in the way area for cognitive and it'll basically say what the thing is and it'll have go to priority level and so that you can actually simplify pages based on priority level of the attributes I'm not sure but it's a really great idea I don't know whether it's going to take whether it's going to make it real or not you know we're hoping that something like I would call the community better and this is one of the things so what this is doing is laying the landing pad for that there's a we're going to probably come up with about 15 elements that you have to use conventional name or provide a conventional name programmatically what that can do another interesting part of this is the impact for machine users so as was mentioned Alexis at home or any kind of crawling device they'll be able to properly parse and understand what's going on David there's there's definitely places where first and last level are not part of the culture so the conventions I think is those are Western conventions how do you deal with broad reactions that don't have addresses you can't send something to an outside address you can't deal with your questions yeah so if you're a nationalization this has gone through a whole bunch of iterations and this latest version has been accepted conditionally and there isn't no one on the nationalization consensus and also you know the development of this technology so you're coming up with a concern that other people have raised with an instrument and I'm bringing back a group that we're hearing about the field too we're going to keep clubbing along so we have graphic conference minimums the conference minimums have been bumped up for large and small tests in general it's similar patterns that we have been using before but the values have just changed actually I have to correct that yeah so nothing's changing the test it's only that graphical information now when we've got the same standard to this test in other words if you have if you have a graph of our graph you know that you have to be able to distinguish it in anything next to it so whenever you have important information and definition of the form and definition of important information it's great that we understand the content of these graphics that they must be distinguishing in all of our tracks with important information so it's been extended on that and it's getting pretty good momentum I think it'll probably bump down to just one one level rather than having 4.5 or 3.1 I think on the final draft it'll just be 3.1 because my argument is that it's not it's hard to cognitively curse a thing that would word which takes more cognitive load and more distinction in degree ability so I expect that to be on the 3.1 and that will also go for focus indicators you know when you use an actual focus indicator if you don't know that's a focus indicator fine if you like not that focus indicator you know we're going to have to now in this next version have it so when people hit the data they can actually see where the focus is which isn't looking at anything that makes sense and buttons interface all this stuff oh pictures if it's about important no photographs graphical information between photographs I don't think we're going to have I don't think photographs are going to be part of that that would be a very difficult thing because normally you have digital graphics oh yeah in photographs yeah say you like the graphics I'm assuming like bar chart all that kind of stuff you think you can be sure that they know where the camera is the next version of what came is going to be your fire Instagram filters yeah so that's this is the related one I've already said this one this is the interactive elements part of the buttons so there's two success cartoon broken up one for graphics and one for interactive elements same sort of thing so it's basically that people with low vision will be able to use your site now they don't have to start looking around for you know alternatives yeah go ahead so the the contract ratio is that like supplemented on top of like focus like a focus outline that's a really great question so the question is the button has to have sufficient contrast to the background plus the focus has to have sufficient contrast with the button and with the background is that your concern? well yeah it just seems like we're like layering focuses and like contrast on top of contrast yeah so the question the question was so you have another one and it's got sufficient contrast start with 1.9 you've got a black focus indicator hits that thing and it doesn't have sufficient contrast with the button well as long as it has sufficient contrast from one side of it it will leave a pass okay so there's something contrast to it yeah and we also a lot of public CSS to allow for there to be three colors of focus indicators in other words you have black and a thin white on each side of the black so wherever your focus indicator goes it will give you this one you have a quarter of a focus indicator yeah a quarter you're talking about a fine field you can do that with voice over anybody who's using voice over whenever you tap through a voice over you're seeing that it's a black line and it's moving away and it's like you don't usually notice it is that correct? a lot of questions over here is that correct? it was actually one of the comments from the city about the contrast ratio that's also very important depending on the choice of colors for color-blind people which is something to provide for some of the fans yeah so the people with color-blind is very, very important for many of the color-blinds the hues that you have trouble with there's a lot of different types of color-blinds the red one is very common which is why we feel most important as of now so essentially the focus would be the selector the CSS selector yeah I mean there's a default in most browsers and I'm assuming the default is complex there's a discussion about that right now so try it on hold on how many of you think these two graphics are a good idea I have two how many people think I'm not sure okay one, two, three developers how many of you think this works how many of you think we've got so start with the momentum do you think it's better for me okay did you want to have fun? it's not a bad idea but it's already so these environments seem to be good enough to call it I want to I want to do a meeting one time and they said we just had a new college we paid $100,000 for it and I looked at them and I'm like okay so why don't you bring them and give them a meeting I know that now with the technology guys it would be nice to have a button and they would just change the colors in the scale at the markets well Google has that now Google does have Google has a really high contrast module and it'll actually do a really good job giving you a different contrast ratio it's really good but we can't rely on these tools at this point from a designer's perspective there's plugins to the entire product and you can check the product's radius if you do that already and if you have a core monitor these previous designers have those very fancy $5,000 Apple monitors if you have a product of all around you you can show that in your problem areas if you're very interested okay so the next one you really want it's about then being able to override using the plugin your core CSS and basically we want to get a look at the texture of it so you don't have to do anything just don't interfere with it they're able to override the line height spacing underneath the paragraph at least two times the font size letter spacing so these are four things that they want to be able to control without messing up the content and with their own tools basically so you're not interfering with that is that understandable how would you be interfering with that if there are a lot of blocks on the front of the CSS they could do whatever they want if you're you could use Excel to tie all of your padding to the font size or the context that's put in line and consider overriding the style pretty close how many people think this is a good idea how many people think it's not sure and how many people think it's bad it's just got to be a good point thank you tool tips that if you're on hover or focus are easy to interact with and this was a very interesting one where they would explain it to me so why I'm understanding this is that if there's a tool tip or additional content that is up here on hover or focus it doesn't override even if you're facing the triggers it so it doesn't hover over it and you just can easily render it and you can understand the context yeah that's good yeah so in this respect of the title attributes that are such a mess in the far-winded low vision community in the mobile vision community so it may not sound many animals were able to take away everything we couldn't really meaning that it's a terrazer machine it's not a simpleton but it's a terrazer machine I have to get down to the mind the title attribute and there's sometimes something really useful we just abandoned that and then they show you the price of the bottle and how it works. Anybody see those guys? So that kind of thing, the info grab, a lot of information comes up. So we all need to be wired and we can. Keyboard 2.1.1.1, that when it gets focused, it's actually not a good thing. However, we need to have anything that requires it to maintain the visibility of the bottle and then trigger it. And also, we need to require that people actually move into the keyboard or with the mouse without actually creating a net closing on it. So a lot of people will be able to do magnifying stuff. You know, how do these pop-ups go? And then they'll go there and the thing will disappear on them. You can't really, right? So it's just because you say, as long as you're hovering over it and you're focusing it, it stays open. And you don't have a sphere, they won't trigger it. Is that how you check it out? If you click with the 320x on the minimum, it's like zero tooltips, you know, particularly if you have a lot of text in it, it might just push that stuff right out of the page so you can actually see the texting or the tooltips. I mean, that's a good thing to do. And you know, it can go back. That's a good consideration. I think it's fine, but I'm thinking about if you just, you're saying that it's got the tooltip, it's not. And the button just goes off screen. So the button just goes off screen. So it's everything that goes this way. But it's just, yeah, it hasn't been, the button is not, the pop-up is not obscured. It's just the way that the content is scrolled. So how do we convey all the way that we convey all this to the screen? So for a sake of time, I'm going to be a voting favor. Sure. And I'm going to skip the remaining ones. We're going to start now. There's lots more. You have really excellent blog posts. This is still in the outdated, where you can go to the individual ones and see them. And you can also buy feedback. I can actually type that for everybody if you want. If you should pull up a Word document or something, I'll type it in there. I'll tweet it. I'll keep it there. Sure. I'll put it up on the initial slide and it'll be there. But here, in terms of feedback, we're looking for specifically four points and feedback regarding that. Is it testable? Is it incremental? Is it scalable? Is it natural? Is it doable at all? Or is it too much of a barrier? Is it actually government? And it's an internationalized, it doesn't mean cross-technologies, technology-independent, and it's also a global internationalization of wireless. I really appreciate your time. I think that's the end of our talk. That's it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.