 Thank you all for staying, it was a slight delay, I didn't want to interrupt the discussion, but now we have Milo still with us and he will talk about his work, we mentioned in the afternoon when it came to the book presentation and everything, but now he will show excerpts or trailers as one say and in a kind of free-floating way, right? Give us a comment, a director's cut, but live in a way. So Bailey, are you ready over there? Okay, so we start with Congo. So Milo, what is Congo all about? I mean, I never know which trailer will be shown, because every project has a lot of trailers, so I will be surprised by what is shown, but perhaps it's just the cinema, the trailer from the documentary from the cinema, yes, I guess so, and so this is, I think in the trailer you will see it, it's a tribunal we did first in 2015 in the Eastern Congo, and it's the experiment to have a tribunal for world economy, so tribunal in a way is like a setting of a trial on a stage as if it were a real trial with a prosecuted judge, a jury, and following the procedure of a real trial, tribunal, right? And absolutely, and it's always based on very concrete cases and on people involved in these cases, so in that case it's about, I think, a goldmine of Benro, which is a Canadian enterprise, and then in two other cases, so one massacre in a little city called Mutarule in the eastern part of Congo, I mean, there you have a mix of ethical conflicts, of conflicts for land and raw materials of, it's also called an international, it's called the Third World War, because China and US and the European Union are, and countries around, are involved for the fight for these raw materials, for example, concerning Cultain, you have 80% of what is on this planet there, and it's the most important strategic raw material that exists in, in this century because of the IT industry, and I mean, you all know these stories, so a little bit about the massacre, what happened? I, when you come to the east of Congo, then you will of course meet the, it's the, it's the biggest blue helmet United Nations troops there, it's like they, they invest one billion a year, but the war is going on, because it's a super complex war, and this war is connected, of course, to the, to the raw materials, to the mines, and who helps whom sometimes these militias are linked to an enterprise, sometimes they're independent, etc. And I remember I came there, and the first thing they tell you, because if not they can't exploit, they say, okay, it's a post-conflict zone, but then wherever you go, you will see massacres, you will be involved in massacres, you will come after massacres, before massacres, it's really, it's really happening all the time, and the film we did, and my kind of, of, of, of start of the interest was when I was working in, in Rwanda, I was going to the east of Congo, and I was just wanting to, to take some images to then finance the, the, the project, and I was involved in this massacre in Mutarule, and we were kind of forced by the villagers to film for 10 hours like everything. You witnessed it? Yeah, yeah, and then I was asking myself, but why did this happen? And then, of course, we found out together with the advocates and everybody and the, and people involved that this village is on the land, they should not be there because it's on a land that they want to exploit at one point, and what happens many times that these conflicts are, are pushed again and again until the people just leaves, that then they could say, okay, because it's difficult to, to, to, to bring them away from these concessions, so, and the film starting from this massacre tries to tell the, the, the connections between a random massacre because they happen all the time and the bigger picture of the, of the, of this, what I call the Third World War, so this, this economical war for the access to this, to these materials. So let's watch it and also in the book, Milo talks about this kind of the, what is the moment you get involved with the, when do you do something? I was thinking you in the book, you talk about this, when you saw this, you said, I have to do something, even so I live in a different space, even so it's not my family, it's not my tribe, it's not my country, I have to do something, we are connected and we are all implicated in a way as you also wrote in the Matera, the Christ who ended up playing, he saw one of his co-workers dying from heat in, in on the tomato plantations, nobody was allowed to help him, and, and he said, this is wrong, and he organized the very first strike ever in the history, you know, of Italy against a mafia-run organization, so let's watch the Congo Tribunal and then talk a little bit about it, it's three minutes, yeah. You are the Minister of the Interior. Why are you here at this time? Can you tell us that his police has only the work and the day? What's going on around me is not acceptable, why do we have to accept that, why do we have to accept that? Yeah, it's not really a theater performance, it's really, it's really tribunal, I mean, and the tribunal exists until today, it was made several times in different countries, yes, and the last time in Covesi we will see in the end, I think, a little excerpt of justice, so we continue to work on this project for 10 years, perhaps, and, and this film, I mean, we made for several reasons, a bit like we did the film about the Moscow Trials, but one reason is always to finance these kind of projects that nobody would ever finance through film money, this is one reason, because you have to stage to then film it, and then you can, of course, pay it by film money. On the other side, this, the fact that you would film, because this was staged in the Civil War region, in a region that is a bit unsafe, and to film it helps a lot to, to, to securize it, that, that everything is filmed, and, and the last thing is, of course, to, to have a documentation of it, because what this we, we then made around 2000 copies, I think, and these copies were spread by, by one of the prosecutors, that is one extremely important human rights lawyer in Congo, so he would then bring it to a lot of other lawyers that take it as a, as a toolbox to start to do these tribunals to, to in the end, and this is the hope, of course, to, to, to construct a kind of a, of a, of a real state institution out of it, so that, that, that the guy with the moustache in the end, Jean-Louis Gillesin, he's one of the creators of the Tribunal of the Hague, which is, and, and, and for me, there is one anecdote he told me, because he's a, he's just a lawyer from, from Yesh, which is a little town in Belgium, and he's absolutely not an exceptional person, he is just a lawyer, and he told me when in the Conference of Rome he was presenting with some colleagues the first time the idea of making an international tribunal for human rights in the Hague, which became now the model for the institutional model for all these kind of tribunals, you know, they had, they had Milosevic, they had Karacic, they had the, the, the, the, the, the mosquitoes from Rwanda, they had, I mean, it really became an institution, and he told me, you know, Milo, when I was presenting this as a young lawyer they were saying, but there is no legal basis, and there is no money to do it, and 10 years later they had a legal basis, they had one billion, and they created the, the Hague Tribunal, and just because like five people decided to do so, and not extraordinary people and not rich people, just lawyers, and it's a very utopian space, you know, and justice for me in my work, or I think is like beauty, or like love, or like, like, like these kind of things, like reason, a basic human instinct, and I'm also talking as an artist, when you do a play based on, on, on justice and on truth, everybody immediately understands, everybody immediately accepts and respects it, and this is beautiful, so that's why institutions function, and of course a tribunal is also a possibility to on a stage not bigger than this one, represent, for example, the world economy, to explain why these people in Mutarule are killed by a company that is based in, in Canada or in Switzerland, or how this is, I mean not directly, but how it is linked, how this structural violence of world economy functions, and to bring it together in a kind of a community man of, of, of what world economy is, because you know that most when I was studying sociology, there was the cliche that you could not represent big structures, it was not the cliche because it's also true, but when I found this format, which is not a format I, I of course, invented, because it exists since, since ever, or since the beginning of tragedy, you have the tribunal as the model, the model perhaps of western permitogy, and it makes it representable, it makes it, it gives even a structure, it gives even attention, you know, to the, the verdict in the end, gives the tension, so you have a lot of, of things, and that's why it functions as a film, and why you can tell it as a film, while a lot of theater plays, when you make a film out of Czech Republic, makes absolutely no sense, because this is really a stage experience that will not work in the logic of, of film or television, but the tribunal does. So like I was, what you wrote on the book you said, it's not actually about the verdict when it comes at the end, sometimes even slightly, you know, non-climactic, but the process, as you said, the, in your idea of the, the global reality, it becomes reality, the demonstration of something that's fundamentally wrong also shows it can be changed, because there is about systems and mechanisms, and not individual fate, and, and it is an incredible reinvention or retaking of the future, and you always said the work of the theater is that you take utopias also from the past, and you let them light up again, let them, you know, sprout, and take what always has been there into, into, into a future. What changed since you started those trials, now four of them have been, and also in Switzerland, I think, in Switzerland, where the company actually has the headquarters, so what changed in the context, I think it became part of global consciousness, right? How to say, I think, I mean, comparing it perhaps to the, the Moscow trials and how Moscow changed since, since 10 years, and this, which was a bit later, but also 10 years ago, these, these images you saw, so Eastern Congo, Russia become worse, as we all know, and, and Eastern Congo's state bad, but it's not worse or better, it's really the same situation, there is no justice, there is a complete independence, legal independence from the big companies, there is, we tried to push, and that's why we did one of these, these tribulations in Switzerland, we tried to help to push one law that would make big transnational companies chargeable in, for example, Switzerland, because they are based in Switzerland, they pay taxes in Switzerland, so they would, which is not possible now, so if you are killed in Mutahule, you can't go buy this, or somehow buy this company, however, you can't even not investigate it in Switzerland, it's impossible, and I think that's what is pushed in France and in perhaps in the US too, I don't know, by the United Nations and also by a lot of national initiatives in different countries, and of course we support it a lot in Switzerland and in France and in Germany, and, and it will come, perhaps in five years and ten years, I was, I was always, you know, when you look back to the 19th century, then you can be impressed with the technical possibilities they had to change place or they didn't even have the train, when they invented the nation, the nation of France was bigger than the globe is today for us, so I'm now in New York and tomorrow at the same time I'll be in Cologne, but why didn't our consciousness, our legal system, our etc, not grow after the invention of the nation? Why was it over with the invention of the nation? I don't know, I don't understand it, you know, and that's why I think it will grow, and it will grow during this, this, this generation. It will be, it was called progressive justice, and it will come, you're part of it and you're actually part of implementing the change. Maybe we go, and we talk about it more, but later to the next trailer, and we talked about it this afternoon. May Miro say one, two sentences, I'll go into it, one stop, the Bailey, yeah. Yeah, I mean this is the new gospel, I think, it's a bit asynchronous in chronic, because I think then we go back and then we go forth again with you, but who cares? It's nice, and it's not really isochronic because we change so much the place on the planet, but this is a project we did in 2019-2020 in the city of Matera, and the city of Matera is very known in film history because it's the city where the big Jesus film were made, and especially of course in the 60s, the film by Italian director Pier Paolo Pasolini, and he did a film that became very influential on European filmmaking in this, it's called the New Realistic Style, so he, he, he worked with non-professionals, he worked with this kind of camera that became, you know, this kind of painting, slow cut camera that became very influential for Outhouse Movie until today, but it's, it's very direct too, and, and it became in Europe, we have every year the capital of culture, and it's almost always a very sad, peripheric city, but this year it was Matera, and we are touring a lot with our plays in Italy, and, and then they were calling me and saying, okay, why would you not do a play for us in the set, so yeah, but I would like to do a Jesus film, because it's the city of Jesus films, and then they said, so yeah, okay, and, and I called some actors from, ah, Mel Gibson, American director, he did another Jesus film, The Passion of the Christ, also in Matera, very different, of course, from the, from the film by Pasolini, and I was asking the Holy Mary of Mel Gibson, Maya Morgenstern, an actress I know very well, um, and, and, and the Jesus of Pasolini, Enrique Rozzocchi, who died, meanwhile, to, to be in my film. I went there, and then I found out, and we will now see Yvon Sanier, I think in the next moment in this trailer, that this city, the, the cultural capital is surrounded by, by refugee camps, and these refugees are illegal, around 500,000 people, it's South Italy, it's completely dominated by, by mafia, so illegal economy, and especially plantations of tomatoes, and oranges, and lemons, and, and these people are used, because tomatoes, you can't, you have to take them by hand, because it's, it's the same with mandarins and, and, and, and orange, you really need handwork, but to pull the prices down, they use illegal work, so they use immigrants, that by the politics are illegalized, and there's a deal with the mafia, and big companies, and I mean the usual system, and, and this is around material, and then we, we understood, okay, when we do this film in this, in this iconic city, Jerusalem, of world cinema, if you want, we need the cheese that is really, I don't know, that can represent this figure, it can be an actor, and, and then we, we, we, we found Yvon Sanier, which is a very known activist for the rights of immigrants, especially in this region, in Italy, and together with him, we made the Jesus film in parody, we made a campaign for the rights of, of, of illegalized African farm workers in South Italy, which is called La Revolta de Latinità, the Revolta of Dignity, and the, and the film tells the story of Jesus, and at the same time, the story of, of this revolt, so it's a kind of a mixed, parallel storyline, and I think it's quite let's have a look se voi, se noi, non iniziamo a notare per i propri diritti, per i nostri diritti, se uno vuol venire con me, prenda la sua croce e mi segua e voi ti piacerebbe interpretare? essere questa presenza visibile e invisibile in verità vi dico uno di voi mi tradirà noi non siamo un film, io organizo le lotte si siamo già stati sfruttati nel modo di lavoro dentro la tambana come schiabile incredible incredible project to really think about who would, who would Jesus be, what would he do, who would he fight you know and I think in one of our seagal talks you said why you were fascinated they said you know they were conflicting source material about his stories he was a revolutionary named a terrorist you know everybody in a way wanted to hide it they tried not to kill him you know to to do not make obvious you know what is so wrong ultimately the truth came out of power show how was that experience for you in your work to be in the footsteps of these directors to try out a theater piece and how did it fit in in the global realism of your ideas or theater what it can do and I mean first of all I discovered the bible through this film of the new testament and I was quite impressed I mean if I would have been the founder of the church I would have edited this book much differently to be good propaganda because I mean it's really bad propaganda because everything is told from different perspectives as you know it's super con it's it's full of contradictions Jesus is shown as a very human figure and in the end you have this very known absurd situation that the son of God is saying but my father why did have you forsaken me so God becomes human to then question God no so all this is kind of back at craziness and and this I really loved to see this story that is and you know when you are an activist and you and for example what is what is also interesting in this story that the roman empire is is quite aggressive and and and brutal and and in the end Jesus is crucified but everybody including Pontius Pilatus they are trying to save Jesus you know and it's actually his apostles who are his problem no it's Judas and it's Peter and it's it's like and when you are working as an activist and you see it really here also in the south of Italy but the pressure of the big enterprise of the politics and of the mafia is so strong that these movements break inside because the outside pressure is so big that you find the Judas and the petrus and all these kind of things in every group of people so and and and this was for me interesting that they would tell a revolution but showing a revolutionary that this week is narcissistic as it's like you have all these stories you know there's for example this story when when when Judas decides to to leave Jesus when they are in Mary from Bethany in her place and she brings the oil to wash the head of Jesus and then Peter's Judas says but why don't we sell it for the poor because he's a kind of a socialist Judas no and and and Jesus says but hey shut up there's only one Jesus there are many poor and then he continues to to put the oil in his hair and why didn't he I would just have erased you know because it shows a very bad side of Jesus and this is first of all this is nice that you see the potential of the Christian culture that end of the church of course that is in this in this book and when I was that's Antigone and the Amazon perhaps we have a trailer about it too today I'm not sure I think so when I was together with the with the landless movement they had a quite interesting book occupying the Bible so re-appropriating the Bible and that's exactly what we did there we said okay this is the book and we find a context and perhaps it's my poetics in in general we put it in this context and this context will actualize and re-appropriate it and will show us what this book perhaps means today you know and of course you hope for the moment and and what is interesting in this film because there's documentary moments there are real moments people are real leaders but at the same time they are playing roles and it's a bit mixed and many times people don't know when it's a Bible scene and when it's a real scene because this book is so actual and of course we all hope for a moment when this book will not represent reality anymore and when we don't need achievers anymore or when we don't need a revolt anymore because dignity is is is installed you know and and and and that's what the film is is about at the same time we talked about the footsteps of the of the directors that did these cheese films before and especially yeah paula pasolini is in in europe is like perhaps the director of directors there's a lot of stories around him and a lot of people in materia still alive were acting in his film and yeah he's a he's this film especially created the whole style when it came out everybody made jokes about it it was a absolutely not a success because it's also a bit sentimental but as a as a as a film that is told as a collective uh you see the collective movement in this film there is it was the first Jesus film where i think Jesus was not the most present guy and it was uh and of course in rike razzucchi he could not play any role afterwards because he was known over the whole globe as as Jesus and a very fun effect when i met him to to then stage again the Jesus film with him he asked me but where are the the big tableaus the cartons and i said which cartons and then he said that pasolini was always holding the cartons with his text behind the camera so he could read it because he's not a nectar you know and then i started preparing the cartons amazing yeah and also the idea it's not a white cheeses it's not a cheeses out of oba amagao you know where you know they're re-enacted it's a someone from cameroon well ivan what was his ivan sañez from from cameroon cameroon yeah it's it's a revolutionary in that way i um i do think and there is this anecdote but some people say it's true but i don't know there's a of an american politician who is against in spanish a second language even in in a highly spanish population areas and he said if english is good enough for jesus it should be good enough for everyone and um in which shows you the appropriation of it and i think this is a truly an incredible piece of theater and i guess audience members from the festival the european they were on the streets when you shot some of the scene so it was kind of a a moving uh a piece of site specific work which you then documented on film but also uh created as you say events you say we need to create events big events theater should do big things they should be noticeable as in this is one of them yeah um i mean one one yeah i mean there there there are different spaces this film is is in um um and one one space is is is is is really filmic so you have film scenes from the bible then and then we have a lot of mix with i mean two worlds one world is the world of the of the reality of these of these actors so the the the reality of the camps and of the political fight and of uh of all these kind of things of melancholy of pressure uh betrayal as as discussed and on the other side you have the the reality of all these tourists going to matera to see the city of of the bible and remember houses built by EU money for immigrants they were built people made their money but they were never allowed to go in they were never used so um it's an incredible and document and it really shows how powerful um theater can be in that it can take a stand let's go to the next um trailer you want to say a bit about it you know you each grain of work over the body slides that's something in the amazon so a play we did uh some months ago um last spring or was the premiere and that's the we talked several times today about it was with produced together with the landless movement that um for example here you see represented in the choir so we have uh we made over years different uh workshops and videos and then we started in 2019 2020 covid and then it continued in europe and we went back in 20 22 23 uh three year project more or less it was a very long project um and um um yeah and in the end now it's touring as a as a as a play in europe and um it's a mix of of of of as you see of video and and and acting and perhaps it's a bit comparable uh with the new gospel project because it's it's also trying to implement an antique myth the antigone or book or text or or whatever i mean many people read for example antigone and cheeses as parallel characters so the the character of the radical no to the system so antigone says no to the to the birth of modern state somehow so she stands for tradition and for the law of the earth and for the gods and and she wants to bury her brother because this is the traditional law that you would bury a body and on the other side you have creon who who says he's an enemy of the state the terrorist as you said about cheeses so we can't bury and that's where the conflict starts um and uh and and the interesting thing is that when i met the land this movement which is a huge movement in in brazil i think maybe say a word of not everybody was here this afternoon yeah it's it's it's i think the biggest social movement perhaps on the planet but for sure in latin america and uh it's a civil movement that there was the land reform in brazil but never realized and they occupy land so that the land taken by the colonizers would be really subdued to the people that's the idea of the land reform but it was because of reasons we can imagine never realized so they realized it themselves by occupying land hundreds of thousands of people right hundreds of thousands of families millions of people and uh huge huge huge parts of lands they created what we call in the play a nation inside the nation so it's really reappropriating the land and they produce in a biological way very effective they have their schools they have their theaters they have they have tradition of of staging plays and a big tradition of choir well for the demonstrations and for everything a choir is like 50 people or 100 or and it depends it can be a lot it can be 10 it can be five it depends from the from the need and we created i think it's perhaps 40 people that we had in the choir and this choir is a mix of because there was one uh iconic massacre in the north in the amazon uh that happened on the on these streets called i mean the system of streets called the transomersonica so these streets that go through the forest it was constructed to actually destroy the forest and uh and on that street happened the massacre the military police killed yeah some dozens of people from the land was movement and since then every year they would occupy the street and make a ceremony there and then they invited us to to to stage the play there and he said okay we would renext the massacre together with the survivors of the massacre and young activists but they are also the choir in the uh in the in the in the play and this mix a bit similar to the to the new gospel made the parallel storyline of on the one hand the actual story of of brazilian activism from the landless movement the question of the indigenous people uh and on the other side um yeah this this this story by by Sophocles which is on the on the birth of european theater somehow um um and uh and to bring this together and that's that's uh that's how this play uh functions i mean famously i hope i remember right you said you know at your again manifestos next step every different languages have to be on stage the play has to be performed outside this theater in this city it has to travel to at least three different countries you also said you can at least you shouldn't use more than 30 or 40 of the original text um also here you applied this tell us a bit about um we talked about briefly the afternoon you rewrote a classic right you're in a a serious way with with your diverse um um um cast which are actors from gand they are activists brazilian artists people from the august to boil world who you are also part of the land movement an interesting connection so um how did you approach the text um as a as a i mean first of all we were we were reflecting together with the landless movement or with the formal dramaturg or for who's the boy what could be the topic and you know disappearing bodies bodies not buried etc this is in the in the in the social movement of of brazil is omnipresent especially in the north in the para which is the state where we made which is a extremely violent state because you have the big plantations uh there and uh and and we decided for uh for antigone because it linked in many ways to what was interesting to them from the form of the choir to the question of the body to the question of of resistance and so on and the question of land of course and um and then we started to um to use snippets of the text to develop choir pieces and to uh to develop scenes um and other parts are completely not from the antigone but somehow inspired by for example there's teresia as the prophet um that in a in a in a kind of uh julian back right played in the already was the or the post sorry he was yeah it was but um um um we asked it we asked it uh first we had celsius because he's he's really the the the the father of brazilian theater uh but then um and celsius died and and then we asked uh eilton crinac which is the you could say the jampo south was somehow of of uh of brazil of indigenous brazil and he played teresia so this prophet and like a lot of scenes we try to to find um a parallel and i think it was the first sentence here in the in the trailer saying uh there is no difference between myths and reality once there was an antigone once there was a creon once there was a polynacus once there was a civil war so and parallely we tell the story about these people dead on the street on that day in uh in april 1996 when this this this massacre happened and you had a polynacus a young man was killed we saw we saw him i mean an actor playing him in this in this in this trailer and uh and that's how by by and it's often it goes over years so you have one uh sediment on the other on the other and what in the end is often my place on stage is kind of you could say the the notebook of the making of a group of people who went to brazil to put together with the landers movement a version of antigone and what happened to them and what they think now about it and what etc so this is the this is the the way of telling the story amazing potentially even coming to the scope or maybe not maybe it will be the media i just want to just to put it into context again and we all know that if you go to columbia university as a directing school well it's 10 or 15 years you give you have to do the buckeye you know and which is way too big way to but this is then and then you put on the white sometimes you know cloth or something we do a greek play and then you see about acting often they all all the same age so you know so just think about adapting a classic what does it mean in the time we live how do you do that and what a concept that really is to say we go out and go to brazil i go to the world that is not part of our world but on whose blood in a way we live we our comfort as you say we the more comfortable we are the more brutal it is for other people hannah moeller said in some of his plays you open the fridge blood should come out you know and so in a way you confront the invisible and the reality and but because you say it could be shown it could be put in it can also be changed it is actually not fate it's not god-given there is a progressive justice and it will come and you've mentioned in your book that perhaps we are still in a state of pre-human we haven't maybe will come in 300 years and 500 if this planet survives but theater is part of that change and it's truly truly truly inspiring what you did to to think about it and as a game and theater is a game and the mankind's perhaps greatest achievement is to create games great games and there's soccer and ping pong this and all they all great but i think theater is the most fascinating it is a game it's a play and but you can see things from different sides there contradictory statements you can give and audiences ultimately will have to make up their minds but it's an extraordinary project let's go to the next one which might be the last one this you opened a week ago right or two so incredible you want to talk something up front maybe so this is i mean that's an interesting piece because it's uh that i also here i don't know which trailer we will see from all the trailers but this is an opera uh we did based on one case um i i met you in the Congo Tribunal not the one we saw in the movie but another one that happened um two years ago and there was an accident of a of an acid truck you need acid so it's you know like yeah like like to to to bring the material the raw material out of the stone and it goes faster than that traditional methods with water and everything but this is too slow for the industry so they they use this and then one of these trucks has an accident falls on the city on the little village of Cowboy which is close to Colvesi and kills and falls on a on a minibus and kills 20 people slowly so it drips on them over 12 13 years sorry hours and and then and uh yeah but it becomes now the time frame now changes because then the rain starts and the acid goes into the symmetry and and when we did this this tribunal also that the priest of the village came and he said since this happened i can't talk to the dead anymore because even the souls disappeared so i i uh and we talked to a mother who lost her child and another man who lost his legs and so on and um and and then i was asked by by by by the con teatro genet that the Geneva opera which is one of the big you know really old-style opera houses in europe if i wanted to stage an opera and i said if i have the choice i would highlight this case because it's completely invisible it's random and and never nobody would talk about it and then we we searched for a team of people um so there's one seashka kuchi one incredible singer who who is from colvesi a city very close fiston vanza mochila booker prize nomini he he he is from another city luphombashi which is i mean capo is really in the middle of these two people and i connected to them and hector para we talked about him um composer the composer and together we did this uh opera and he staged it in chineva mixed with the films we made there with these people and i remember the moment when because based on what they said fiston was writing the libretto and at one point i i don't know if it's in this trailer but at one point uh together with serca kuchi we went back and then he was singing to these people the the what they said in tribunal s arias and um and this was really for me the one of the most meaningful moments of i mean in this little world of what can art mean as a as a as a transcendence or as a as a moment when you when you give beauty and dignity to something that is just a random accident in world economy like this accident and um yeah and uh perhaps just that you understand why we had to do it in chineva chineva is the is the biggest uh to say that the marketplace for raw materials in the world and the whole regions of switzerland is is is well so switzerland is based on it and glencore is a swiss uh company glencore is on the basis of this accident because it happened on a mine of or a concession of glencore and glencore is the biggest company of switzerland is based close to chineva and is uh i mean close to chineva in the terms of switzerland so um and and and they make more than 200 billions profit every year so it's more than whole switzerland together and it's it's like and and this context made it logic to me to bring chineva and copy it together in this in this in this opera and yeah that's the story incredible instead of doing labo ham or um a beautiful uh figure role um you said you know i'll bring this to uh to a place um to a truth that nobody really they might know about it's invisible everybody knows it but nobody nobody um talks about it if i remember right in a book you say to develop such a minor project it costs 10 to 12 years it's most probably 10 to 15 20 billion dollars within three years you have to get the money back from the company who invested it otherwise it will not make sensible economically um not uh be worth it and there is no time for schools for universities for thinking about the people who live there it's it's brutal um it's a naked capitalism as you also quoted before and you use theater that at least for a moment to give the dignity you at the end of the book you talk and say theater might be a window you open for the moment to see eternity even for that short moment you see some kind of a of a truth kleist writes about in his marionette observations he said there is we were out of paradise a long time ago but perhaps theater is a little tiny back door that opens up and for a time you spend time in there as a revolt or then maybe as a enjoyment of a dignity but let's have a look and again this is a week old incredible uh so that we have milo here giving 10 days uh sorry three days more um so um let's see when i was young to find myself a little under me i worked in the mines once i worked there a taste of acid and the insurance fell on me it marked me because there is this thing that i look at i see this acid there and i found myself through this this justice operation in the middle of this accident this tragic accident also caused by also by the acid for me there is this contest i would say of the reality of this story which is full of verses of my flesh even in my blood in fact there was no justice and there is no justice that exists so there is really something that is for me shocking if we take this little event completely forgotten not in the justice not in the media it's like one of the thousands of horrible accidents that happen in the globalized industry and justice is focused on a very concrete point an accident that happened here in this village that caused an accident of a truck of acid that fell on the bus after all the acid spread in the villages twenty some died the big company that in the end caused this crime in fact that never repaired this crime is the biggest Swiss company in the end the wealth of Switzerland is based on a justice that exists here and to show it to the heart of financial capitalism it makes so much sense in fact new music we're talking about new music new music fantastic yeah so it was all all written and the libretto music all within two years you created the opera or yeah i mean i was i was now sitting to do you know this this afternoon and when i was together with Hector for me this was completely incredible how he he wrote for an orchestra of 60 instruments and the choir of 40 people and seven singers and and and everything happened in his head and he wrote it down on so many lines and it's really it's it's completely incredible so yeah for me it's uh yeah it's uh it's it's it's yeah and i mean of course i mean the the work i did as a and this is the nice side of opera as a as a i made the concept and then i made a kind of a treatment and i i staged it but um compared to the to the to the composer it's really it's it's it's it's super easy and um yeah that's that's incredible and um yeah so my my my respect for composing is uh is really immense i never saw a work that is so i mean i'm consuming exhausting needs so much of talent i i saw Hector working for one year 16 hours every day so that's uh and in the end he was i mean today i was joking about and then in 10 minutes we changed the ending etc and he was open to all these kind of things still so it's uh he's the most humble person i met and um and the same with Serge Gacuccio the same with with the the Libertist Fistone Manza Mochila who is on stage um what it's yeah it's really it was for me uh an incredible experience to do this opera and um and and that's why as we discussed this afternoon it's completely absurd that we play these four times in Geneva because the machine is too big and then two times in Austria and that's it so six times um of course we film it and and everything but yeah that's uh that's how it is and i think it's a good strategy in the document i mean visual artists are so good at documenting their work as theater makers don't do it i think you are a role model to also have a to have something that you document you write in the book you're most happy when you are in a state of panic when you don't know how things are going to work out because the challenges in the morning when you wake up and have to get something on how do you deal with the panic how do you deal with the exhaustion how do you deal also goes the melancholy of making art you know how um how do you deal with all these um criticism of all the uh moralists who say how you're not allowed to do that like Schlingen's even Nuschtin and all that how how do you care what motivates you how do you carry that through yeah i mean the the i i think that the older i get the less i somehow care about it um not because i don't understand it or because i but because i understood that it is somehow unavoidable that um that i mean for example the criticism i mean there is many positive side of it there is many negative sides of it but it will all the time happen so um i just accepted it somehow but still um i mean it was because you were naming the name schlingen's if of course one negative critique is you will remember your whole life and 10 positive you forget immediately and this is the i think the normal human thing no and um yeah and i i think of course you find the the fun and the beauty for example in the collaboration with seash kakuchi or kutcha who is with the guitar there or titus engel who was the the director and the singers and the choir and all these people that were involved in the project and this is the happiness of it so um yeah i mean you know i may i also have another side of my work and that's the curating as artistic director for example of this this festival and this is more difficult because there i mean you as a curator somehow and you might know that you have most of the negative sides of it you have much less this this this happiness of creation and um and if there you don't have a good reason to do it then it's too exhausting and you would not you would not continue so i i think um yeah institutional work is in a way much more exhausting and uh let's say melancholy producing than than artistic work so because always when i it's really funny but when i when i only enter a space of theater or of opera or if i only meet some people working in the field to produce i'm immediately happy and i immediately forget everything and i'm really all the melancholy is gone immediately so um but of course this doesn't happen when you enter the the bureau of your institution so voila what is the first thing you ever saw in theater if you remember what is the first i was i was choking today about le femme savant of molière but it was the first play i remember i saw in an outside um um i grew up in switzerland and when you grow up in switzerland that the closest way country to go to holidays is always front so you go to france and there they always stage molière in summer theaters outside and then even if you're six years old you would go to see molière and you don't understand it at all but i remember that i have seen molière in outside space uh i mean you go to bullfights and you go to molière and this is the remember the play le femme savant that yeah yeah it was this one yeah yeah strangely and that's why i remember and why i read it later and why i was always interested by this play which is a not so often played play but it's not one like i don't know that the known one you know so it's it's uh interesting was outside and in another country so yeah so um quite um quite something we're close to the end or coming to an end what so if if you want to share or what is what are what do you have ideas for production was already scheduled what are you thinking about that you might not even have told anyone not even yourself um what what what what are you planning to do after these incredible projects i cannot imagine what the pressure must be also or the i i mean i don't have any very strange incredible project that is planned i mean one one project i would like to to tell you is because we we we saw now this this quick tragedies for we didn't see arrests in muslim but we saw um antigone and talking about the outside here there was once walking through a park in the very morning in paris and uh seeing a play by shakespeare and it was so early in the morning now i'm tired but it was morning it was six or seven and i was stopping and i was listening to it and i was understanding every word of shakespeare and normally i have no idea what they are talking about because it's it's like lyricism and you know so it's difficult to get it in you know what happens but you don't really understand and then i said wow if this is the moment when i understand the classics you should do a festival where we play the classics in the morning outside at six and um and that's what we what we do in this spring we we play all the great tragedies in the morning at six one after the other it's 32 so hopefully the romans burnt down the people take off alexander so it's only for the two left and um yeah and that's that's a project that that yeah for me always was a dream to do and now we get or and you know in gend in the city of gend in different spaces it starts in april i see no electricity right it's outside and there is of course as always in my dogmatic world there is rules so no no electricity and blah blah blah no etc two hours of rehearsals only and so on and um um but you can use the text but no comedies no what no comedies no great comedy yeah it was of course discussion if we should include the comedies but then it becomes uh it becomes really too much incredible um normally we would stay for q and a but milo is with us since four o'clock and 4 30 he's flying back tomorrow he arrived basically on monday he stayed a day longer to be with us and also to share his work with you who are in the audience and ultimately this is not about milo it's not about you know what what he does something speaks through him and it's for you who's sitting in the audience or for the audience members who see and watch the play so this is you know for you so i hope it's a contribution to your world and i think what he says go outside connect two different people don't be in your space but it's all dramaturgical advice for our own lives i think you know where can what moves us like when you see you were part of the massacre of course it's a tragic one but you also talk in your book there's the banality of evil he said but there's also the banality of the good you don't have to be a superhero you know you you can do something you can contribute and invite people to your homes or go to other places so i think there's a lot that is deeply meaningful to our lives besides that is also what milo's work is it's really good theater and he said this this afternoon his ideology he also puts in a book when we need a theater he also does theater so this is quite an important lesson also to have so thank you guys for coming taking time thanks to hall around everybody for Graham and Bailey up there but most of all Milo thank you and all our respect for this incredible work your contribution to global theater and in this concert of theater makers who have come before you and are working now and will come after you who think that we are doing the work that has to change the world we have to show how the world really is but it was a call not only to action but to be part of it so really i would say a big applause for milo thank you