 Today, we're honored to have two guests from the company Native Technologies join us to discuss about how to navigate through complicated major construction projects for condominium associations. The first guest we have is Mr. Lincoln King, who is the president of Native Technologies. His company was founded in 2012 and they specialize in pipe replacement projects. They provide all kinds of professional construction management services for Hawaii condominium associations. He is the director of operations and native technologies. He is a licensed architect and a certified project management professional welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you very much for having us now. We really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. Yeah, so I think before we start on the substantive discussion, why don't you tell us more in detail about the services you guys can offer for associations? Sure. Thanks a lot. As you stated, we provide construction project management services for condominium associations. So in a nutshell, that means we plan for and execute major projects on behalf of these associations. Importantly, in that role where we're managing the scope procurement, managing the communications, the schedule and the cost. So I think overall the way you look at our services is that we provide guidance from start to finish. And we make sure that the many components required for these projects to be successful come together at the right time and in the right sequence. It's annual season, annual meeting season. So that means there will be a lot of new directors sitting on the board for associations. And I understand you guys work with the board directors all the time. And there will also be new property managers joining the profession and start working on projects. I think for most people, even when I started doing construction litigation at the beginning of my career, construction projects always looked daunting to us. There are so many players, so many terms, and so many different issues that could go wrong. So I guess to help these new players in our industry to get familiar with some area that's kind of daunting to everybody, can you walk us through the main players and the different phases for such projects so that we have some basic concepts ready for the discussion? Sure, sure. So as you know, we work with you along with many other professionals that come together to join a project team. And there are many. And I think a lot of the times that a new board member might not see just how many professional entities need to come together at just the right time to make these projects work. I mean, I'm not going to name probably everyone, but we've of course got the board members themselves, the owners, their agents, the property management professionals, the building managers that could be site management, you know, an offsite management service or a resident manager. We have you as legal counsel, we have us as the construction project managers, the contractors, the lending institutions, we have government agencies. And if I didn't see it already, of course, most important is the owners and residents that live in those buildings. So as I said in the introduction, all of those stakeholders and professional entities need to come together and do the part, their part of the project, often at several different stages of the project at just the right time. So there are many players and we all need to work together to make sure that these projects run smoothly. So we all understand for construction projects, there are these different phases, right? So there's the pre-design, there's the design phase, there's also the procurement, you know, involving bidding, you know, selecting a vendor, negotiating contract. There's also the construction monitoring. There's also the post of construction. So for each phase, who is responsible for what? Got it. I'm actually going to let Dwayne handle this one. We're going to try and not make it long-winded. I think I alluded to the fact right now that there's so many different spots that all these people come together and collaborate. But I'll have Dwayne expand. Yeah, thanks, Lincoln. So it's really difficult to, in a nutshell, say exactly what happens with each of the phases because each project is so different. They're going to have different phasing for different types of projects. Sometimes you'll have a schematic design, design development, construction documents, bidding and permitting, pre-construction and construction phase. Other times you may skip and may not have all of those present. But what really generally holds true is that as you progress along the project, you'll see that we generally go from a phase where we have more uncertainty. And as we move forward and make decisions with the board and bring different consultants in, those engineers, other contractors and vendors will help reduce those uncertainties. So by the end, when we get to the end phase of construction, all of those answers have come together and we have a full project. That's so true. I mean, I think, you know, as a legal counsel, we're also more familiar with the certain type of phase, for example, the pre-design when, you know, board even needed to consider whether this is visible and whether it's association responsibility, whether this is a unit obligation and then there's also the financing working with the lending institutions. Obviously without money, nothing's going to happen, right? And then, I mean, it's super helpful to have a construction manager like you guys, the professionals, sort of really ease the burden on the board directors, on the property managers to have a professional to walk along, you know, basically, sort of overseeing the whole process and make sure it's heading the right direction and making sure it's within budget, it's on schedule. I guess, you know, for condominium associations, like especially in Hawaii, we have so many old buildings. What are the typical major projects we have to deal with and what a kind of dollar amount range we're dealing with for this kind of projects? I'll jump in on that one and then I'll probably have Dwayne expand a little bit, but you're right now, we have so many buildings, especially in Honolulu, 60s, 70s, 80s, and a lot of them are having the same issues, you know, and a lot of times it's the same issues come unfortunately coming up at the same time for these properties. So they're obviously not, sometimes not looking at just one major project that can be multiple at the same time. That is something we help a lot of clients with. In terms of the individual projects, of course, we're getting a lot of the drain waste and vent plumbing replacement. So in general, the cast iron piping is lasting around 40, maybe 50 years. Some of the very early buildings have a slightly different manufacturing process and their pipes have lasted a little bit longer, but especially in a thing from the 70s and the early 80s, they are generally experiencing a lot of issues. Subsequently, there's a lot of related insurance costs that are coming along with those issues. So that is one of the primary projects that we're seeing and that's what we specialize in. The other big one, of course, is fire sprinkler installation. There's a lot of boards making the decision whether they want to opt in or opt out of that. And of course, there's also the related fire life safety evaluation modifications to be able to gain a passing mark with the fire life safety evaluation. Other projects that we see quite commonly and is becoming more common is window replacement. I've done a couple of big projects with window replacement. They are particularly complicated and I know you and I have talked a little bit about this for a client about who owns the windows and the process of replacing them can become quite complex from a legal standpoint and a bylaw standpoint. Spore repair, painting and border proofing. Obviously, we see that one come up most buildings if they're following a regular maintenance schedule is doing those around about every 10 years. Railings, of course, are often part of that process and we're aware of a recent collapse of a railing at a nearby hotel. Roof replacement as well is very common for us and the list really goes on, but they're pretty much the main big ones that we see time and time again. And each of those comes with its own complexities. Dwayne, do you want to expand on that? No, I think that's pretty much the, they come into two major categories, which is your building infrastructure, your utilities, your power, your electric, your transportation systems, your elevators. And then the rest of it on the outside is your building envelope. Everything that keeps the water out keeps everything on the interior protected and protects your steel reinforcement. The other items I think we see are some of the upgrades and improvements such as hot water systems and replacement of chilled water installation. Things of that nature, which are more upgrades, things that have changed and over time, and maybe now need to be brought up to modern standards. So for construction manager, I mean, everybody knows that term, but we don't, you know, as a late person, we know exactly, we're not sure like what you actually do and what part of the services you actually do not do. Can you help us demystify that process? No, I just wanted to make sure I covered the last question and you did ask us what, you know, rough costs are on some of those projects. I want to make sure I did give you an answer on that. They are so varied, obviously, with all the different scopes of work and the complexity and size of each property. So hard to put a dollar amount on them. But I think for the confidence of moving forward into these projects, we are able to provide reasonably good estimates early on in the project of what those will cost, depending on the specific property. And sorry, moving on to the next question. What do we do? I'm going to tag team this with Dwayne a little bit. Both of us have our roles even within our company that, of course, overlap somewhat. But I think big picture, like I said at the beginning of our interview today, we're providing guidance and coordination. And we do this by implementing a comprehensive project plan. Within that role, where managing the scope of work, scope of work is first and foremost in any project to clearly define that scope of work and consider adjacent scopes of work. We're handling the majority of the procurement process. We work, of course, with professionals like you to go through contract negotiations. You will, of course, handle the legal side. We will be handling the description of the scope of work that goes into those contracts. Within that, you've got procurement of the loan to the association and various other runs of the procurement that need to take place. Critical importance communication. We handle all the communication by that. I mean, we're producing most of the bulletins to the owners holding town hall meetings were available for questions. It's something that we brought ourselves in the services that we provide for the time construction comes. Every owner and resident knows exactly what the project entails and what to expect. We actively manage the schedule. We drive the schedule forward to make sure a project keeps moving. And of course, on everyone's mind is that we manage costs by doing all these planning in advance. We closely are managing cost. So as I said before, all these projects have so many interconnected components and tasks that need to be done on time and in the right order to maintain the schedule on the cost. That's what we drive. That's what we manage. And that's the service we provide. Okay, so I guess, you know, there are different definitely like a wide range of projects over there. They're small ones, big ones. There's also this different faces. Then, you know, obviously not every association can afford to brought you guys on like from the very first moment. So really for, you know, clients who want to make smart use of their budget. I think it would be worthwhile to know how do we, you know, really. What's the best way to utilize retaining like a construction manager from what stage on, you know, you can save money, you know, by bring you guys on and what kind of project you need to consider using this service and what kind of project. It's like a nevermind, you know, even if you ask, it would be a waste of your time and the client's time as well. Sure. Sure. I'll let Wayne start on this one and I'll let him do it. Go ahead. I think in terms of the products we've seen come in. I don't think there's anything we would say though that's that's too small. Don't don't ask us. For me, I think for a new property manager or a board, the moment you want to bring a project becomes too big is the moment you're uncertain. It's the moment where you think, oh, I'm not quite sure I have everything. It's the moment you think I'm not sure how much this cost is there a better way to do this. It's our way to find efficiency. And as soon as any anyone has those questions, I think that's the best time to contact us and bring us into the conversation. So the very least we can start pre planning as to all the considerations that the board or property manager want to start thinking about, regardless if they bring us on board or not. That's the best time to bring a construction manager in is is when you start thinking about what to do so that you can look at all the possible ways things could go wrong. And what possible solutions you could have at the beginning rather than finding out later. I see. I mean, obviously, in order to bid on a project, you got to have the specifications ready. And that's something that you would be helping clients to prepare. You know, the client would have to rely on sometimes a vendor like a supplier for material, they will come up with a SPAC. So what kind of difference that would make. And also, you guys must be dealing with a lot of the vendors or contractors all the time. Is there any advantage for a client using you guys to negotiate on price with those vendors. I'll start on this one. So now we think the best time to call us is at the very beginning of these projects. And, you know, I think we're going to talk a little bit about some of the things we've seen go wrong with these projects. But one of the main things that that we think leads to difficulties is when we get called in by a board and they say, oh, can you help us manage this project. Here's an executed contract and here's the scope of work that the contractor wrote. Right now we have a scope of work that's probably not sometimes not well understood, and we have to go back and try and fill in the gaps on that. So typically the best time to call us is at the very beginning because defining that scope of work, making sure that as Dwayne said, everything is considered that goes into that scope of work. The devil's really in the details, the plans and specifications rely on the scope of work in the beginning and that moves in the plans specifications. They go into the contract. So the contractor really should come after the majority of the rest of the project team has gone through this planning process and design process. So, yeah, big, big picture. I don't think any board is saving money by calling us towards the end. Our services make up a very small proportion of the overall project costs. And in general, a construction manager is going to be the one managing your part of money. We're going to be able to, in general, do a lot to make more efficient use of that budget from their experience in running these projects. Yeah, definitely. And as far as the specifications go, you really want to get those set with someone who's taken a look and made sure that everything that the stakeholder requirements have are being met by those specifications, not just the material, but also its application, how it's being applied, and what to do in situation, unforeseen conditions. I think too often we see presumptions made that we brought someone on to do something without seeing how they're going to do it, and then you can be hit with change orders. It can really lead a project to go sideways. Great. So the overall goal, really, we all try to obtain quality services from an association's point of view and then get the job done within budget smoothly, hopefully without any disputes arising during this process. So how do we accomplish that? I mean, that's really the major question here. I mean, what factors play the most important roles to make that happen? Based on your experience working on prior projects, can you share with us some examples without, of course, naming, building names as to what kind of scenarios it would, everything went smoothly, and if for horrible situations like what was the driving factor there, we can just maybe lessen learn from the good and the bad? I think the main thing to maintain a budget to ensure that we don't have these cost blowouts, which of course the biggest concern for owners, it all starts with the well-defined scope of work, as we said, and a well-defined and planned out procurement process. What goes into the contract is of pivotal importance. Avoiding disputes, especially when it comes to ownership, is making sure that there's a lot of communication. As I said before, communication is key in forming the owners and the residents. Dwayne, anything to add? No, definitely at the end. I think everyone knows that the biggest, what people consider a horror story or something that's gone tragically wrong is a big cost overrun, a big change order, or finding something that prevents you from doing what you want to get done. All the product arrives and it doesn't fit. So I think really setting that expectation with the owners early, knowing all of the different perspectives they have on what means success, is something you have to define very early in the project. And if you don't start with that, then by the time you get to the end, it takes 10 times more effort and cost to fix. So I would say start early, make sure you've looked at all the different perspectives, not just at what you're doing, but what are the other ways you could get it done and use that before you run forward and get someone on board and contract it. I think one of the things where projects have gone wrong that we've been requested to come in and give assistance to later in the project cycle is when things have been done out of order. The scope has not been well defined. They're really some of the, some of the biggest ones and a lack of communication, you know, keeping the owners in the dark. We want to make sure that owners know well in advance exactly what's going on and that a board doesn't always meet behind closed doors. Yeah, so I guess, you know, one thing you have to deal with is, you know, there's always elections in the association world. So the leadership of your client could change and then also, of course, unavoidably for any property management company, the managing agent could change also. So how do you deal with that and for clients facing that kind of situation? What is your suggestion for the board to keep that continuity in, you know, when that happens, you know, I'm sure having somebody with the knowledge continue on that will help go a long way, right? So what would be your suggestion? You're exactly right now. And it's one of the biggest challenges in these projects is that we start with one board of directors who has a certain vision and a certain plan and nine months later that group of people can completely change. So we've managed that turnover of board members by making sure that each of our phases and sub phases is very accurately documented. There is documentation of what board members or what stakeholders revise the plan. And as we move forward through the project process, we have a record of the approvals, how these things were done, why certain decisions were made. That way, when new board members come on to the team, we can give them a summary of here's what we planned, here's reviewed it. This is where we are today and here's the plan moving forward rather than backtracking, changing things and moving on. So we're very careful to make sure that our documentation is very detailed and provides an accurate record of the project up until that point. Okay, we only have a few minutes left and I will have Dwayne and also Lincoln to help us summarize the takeaway tips for board directors and property managers. So you want to go first, Lincoln? Oh sure, sure. So I think number one, bring a construction manager on board early. That's a key takeaway. There is no point waiting until sometime down the track. Clearly define the scope of work and consider adjacent scopes of work. What else might be worth doing at the same time? Communicate with your owners and residents, as I've said many a time. Also make sure that the financing procurement process is part of the project plan. It doesn't need to be separate out in the world before or after. That should be in the project schedule so we make sure that we get it at the right time and of course minimize interest. Finally, your project should always have an actively managed schedule and someone to drive that schedule forward, which is typically us as construction project manager. Your turn now, Dwayne. Oh, thank you. What's left after Lincoln? So, D, I think one of the best things for communication is having, seeing if you can get a project committee assigned that will stay on for the full duration of the project, which could be two to three years on certain projects. So that we have constant information moving for the entire project. You want to make sure that any information you release to the stakeholders in the form of a bulletin, a newsletter, anything of that nature is very carefully monitored. It's really important not to put anything that's not definite because owners can really take that and go in a weird direction. You know, then they'll hold on to that information forever, especially costs. You don't want to put out any cost information until it's very firm because once you put a number, it doesn't matter how many times you say that it's preliminary. They will not let go of it. You want to make sure that you've planned for all your unforeseen conditions. Make sure you have a contingency for what's for paying for it with an allowance and also have a plan for things. Disruptions. Homeowners who are not cooperative with certain renovations. What will we do in that situation have a plan before you get to it. And I think the last thing is just be flexible. Realize that as you move through the project, things may change. We may have to shift with it, but that's what a good project manager is going to let you do is they're going to bring to your attention all the different options you have and how we can go around the problem rather than just running into it. Great. Thank you so much. I really like those all these tips. We really appreciate you taking, you know, valuable, believable hours after your schedule and join us for the show today. And thank you so much. Thank you very much. We appreciate your time as well. Thank you. Thank you.