 dystopian times. Stephen Crowder is trying to spin this as it's not necessarily him that got embarrassed. It's actually Ethan of H3. You can't say that Sam was embarrassed because Sam absolutely objectively was not embarrassed, but it's Ethan Klein of H3 who's the coward. So look at this title here. The greatest self-own H3, H3 Rex himself brags about it. So he did change the pinned comment. At first he was calling Ethan Klein a coward, and then a lot of people responded saying, oh, actually you're the coward, so he changed it. But I just want to go through some of these comments before we discuss, and I feel like Matt probably has some insight inside that he can give us. So first of all, this comment here, 20,000 likes. Looks like someone's father wasn't around to teach them how to be a man. I mean, it's just, it's beautiful. He literally showed himself getting up and checking if the other guy was live. And he admitted this. Like, I feel like, I genuinely, like I hate Stephen Crowder. He's a terrible human being. He's a homophobe. He's a transphobe. And like, he is scum of the earth. But even I felt bad. Like seeing how embarrassed he was, like this is like the definition of cringe. Gus says, I can't believe he hit his face from the camera. I cringe so hard, I couldn't feel my face. And that's like, that describes me. It's that secondhand embarrassment. It's like quintessential cringe. So am I the only one that wanted to see the debate? I would have loved to see the debate if, and we'll stop that with the comments there. Here's my take on this. It wouldn't have been as bad for Crowder if he just stayed and debated. The fact that he ran away made it so much more worse. And this whole debate, me bro, culture is slowly but surely falling apart. Matt, please, please, please give us the juicy tidbits that we missed. Well, I think, honestly, most of it is public now. I think Sam went through the whole story on his show about how it went down. You know, if you don't know, here's a quick summary. Basically, Sam was scheduled to debate Crowder at a politicon a couple of years ago. Once Crowder found out that Sam was who he was going to debate, he pulled out of the event on a recorded call that Sam has aired. Politicons, one of the political bookers have gone on the record to say that Crowder's dad pulled him out and once they found out, he would be debating Sam's eater. So Sam has pursued this like one would do once finding this out, right? I mean, if anything, it makes for good content that someone is literally running scared from you. And then, you know, this came up with Ethan of H3H3. His producer apparently is a fan and told the story that I just told you guys on their show, and then they had this idea to bring Sam on because H3H3 and Crowder was feuding. And Crowder wanted to debate Ethan from H3H3 because and Ethan has said on the air his himself, you know, I'm not a political person. This isn't I don't do a political show. I just had some thoughts about the CDC and COVID. And that's what Stephen Crowder was so mad about. And Crowder even called it a layup to his face. Like this is going to be an easy debate. I was going to destroy you, Ethan. And so, you know, the fact that Crowder ran away from this tells you everything you need to know about, like you said, the debate, me bros, their house of cards is falling apart when someone with some sort of skill and knowledge of the issues wants to discuss it with them. Because here's the thing, too. You know that if Crowder stayed there and actually debated Sam, like, you know, his audience would have been able to spin it much easier. You know what I mean? Like, Crowder would have been better off. But even if he lost the debate to anyone who, you know, has a unbiased mind, his crowd still would have looked at it as a win because they've already used to his talking points. They would view them as the winning view. But, you know, they couldn't even do that. Like he was that scared to be called out by Sam. It's just bizarre that he would do that. I think that's really weird. But I mean, I guess it just shows you just that they just are afraid of what would happen to their audience. We know for a fact. What was that about? Did you see the Mug Club member calling in to Sam's show and saying, like, I really wanted to see him debate you? Like, he can't prime your audience for multiple years to debate people. And then, like, just turned down like obvious debates that you said were going to be easy. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I'm not a debate me bro guy. And Sam isn't either, by the way. There are people who think like Sam goes around doing this. Sam literally takes calls every single day, Monday through Friday on a show. Anyone could call in. He's just happened to create this persona because so many right wingers, especially libertarians, would call in and debate Sam. And Sam would, you know, to be fair, dispatch them with ease. And so, you know, people will like seeing Sam debate. And, you know, if Crowder never was set up to debate Sam at Politicon, this would have like this never would have been a thing. Like he wouldn't just go after Crowder for no reason. Same with Dave Rubin, by the way. Dave Rubin was supposed to discuss we're supposed to have a sit down, I guess, a debate with Sam and then the late great Michael Brooks said something on an episode prior to the debate that really hurt Rubin's feelings. So from that moment forward, Rubin, maybe he canceled the debate and refused to have any sort of interaction with Sam. I mean, if you asked me, he was just looking for an easy out. Oh, yeah. But but like, you know, it's just ridiculous. Like Sam saw an opportunity to put this guy on blast. And it honestly, you can say whatever you want to say about it. It 100 percent worked. And I love the people who are Crowder fans who are who reply to people on the left who are talking about how much Sam, you know, put them on the spot who are like they're owning Ethan for being scared of the debate. I mean, Ethan said himself, this is not my thing. And also no offense, Ethan. But, you know, we're not that this wasn't about Ethan. Like, we don't want to call you think I don't give a shit. Like, you know what I mean? You want to disparage Ethan that go ahead? He's he's not someone like who represents the left. I think the only reason why Crowder really ran was because he didn't want this to be the the fourth, maybe even the third biggest disappointment that he had in his life to his father. You know, he pulled him out. He pulled him out from it before and he knows that he. I mean, imagine being such a disappointment to your own dad, who is also your producer, that he pulls you out of several debates with this guy. He knows your he knows his limits, OK? Like, Crowder is still on training wheels when it comes to like debating people. That's why he sits down and talks to like college freshmen's walking to their English class in like three p.m. OK, and make sure that he records it like two weeks in advance and hides his entire like travel plans to make sure nobody who ever has a platform can ever find him and still sometimes he gets bodied. He still gets bodied there. So if that's the case, then obviously he's not going to be there or with anybody who knows what they're doing. I mean, come on now. He the the second he was talked about with anybody with anybody else like a OG sort of YouTuber, my man was like jumping at the bit to talk to talk about some like mid third talk to some like debate, some mid thirties like comedy, massive vape, bro, YouTuber who slouches in his chair and and coughs and like and just talks about internet culture as his job. OK, and that was his that was the peak debate to him. And finally, someone who comes up who actually knows what they're talking about is there. He goes, whoa, I mean, I got to I got to get out of here. Hey, take the glasses off. Let me see your velveteen rabbit buttons, which if you didn't know, I'm 90 percent sure that's an anti-Semitic reference. Yeah, actually. So I mean, he's just like a complete clown. I think I think we all just about know this. Oh, oh, yeah. And also talking to Sam would have been, I think the second largest person that he would have like debated besides like, like, like, Cenk Uger, but he didn't really debate Cenk. If you he didn't. Oh, in his like in his like screeching match with Sam and Ethan, basically what he said was like, oh, when do you think I've ever been out of political and I've never been out of political and we know because you would have actually talked to someone who knows what they're fucking talking about. Instead, he went to go crash a and this is up on this channel. He went to a crash a panel that Cenk Uger was at. And what he did was it's the it's the funniest shit ever. All right. But not for like the recent Crowder ones. He's stuffed like a T-shirt into a shirt to make him look fat and waddled into the room going, oh, I'm Cenk Uger. You're done. I hate Sam's. I hate Stephen Crowder. He's bad. And that's that's it. And it goes on. It goes on like an impractical Joker skit. But like, like Crowder was the one who was being forced to do the embarrassing shit. Like, it's so cringy. I couldn't finish and it goes on for like four minutes. The guys like and that's like the best comedy that he possibly has. Right. So I mean, I mean, come on now. He didn't know. See, the thing about that is he didn't know when to end it. Like if he made a one minute appearance, crashed the event and then bounced, that would have been OK. I mean, it still was cringe worthy. But the thing is that he he doesn't have like he's not very self aware and shark, you kind of helped me remember what I was going to say. So like his sick offense, they believe that Stephen Crowder looks fine. But I mean, like people who are neutral, who don't know who Ethan Klein or Sam Cedar or Stephen Crowder is, if they see this, like there's no spinning this. Like he looks like a coward. He looks like a pussy. And before we we move on to the next segment, which we're going to let Joy jump in and she's going to take control of the next segment. I just have a question for Dylan. Dylan, is it possible that you could possibly get our boy, Stephen Crowder on the hippie-dippy round table? Is that not not that there is something else possibly in the works with Stephen Crowder? But I I don't want to say anything at this point. What I will say is this, this is the most hurt he's been since he was clocked by that union protester in 2011 after he shoved him to the ground. And not only that, but the thing is with with with Stephen is he made this thing of like, well, he's a one million Andy and I'm so much bigger. I'm five million Andy. He debated like Jeff Holiday when he was like a hundred a went about how Stephen Crowder tried to downplay how hurtful A's was the United States and different communities. If he's willing to debate him on something as as ridiculous as that, then why can't he talk to Sam about like the CDC or what a politic on at one time, Gavin McKinnis and as somebody who's, you know, had to deal with the proud boys coming into my community and burning the property of black churches. I'm no fan of Gavin McKinnis or the proud boys. Gavin McKinnis made an offer to Sam Cedar to come on his show. Sam wasn't interested, but then he said, hey, I can get Stephen Crowder. And then Stephen Crowder just turned it down. He's had multiple opportunities. And one time he backed out the second time he turned it down, even though the platform itself would have been Gavin McKinnis. So not like it was going to benefit Sam Cedar. And if he really is such a small Andy, why was he literally spying on his show the week before? Watching it, monitoring it, because then when it went down, he cancels in the next week after he pre-recorded it because Sam is big brain. Then he comes on and does the show. It's if you think someone is such a small creator that they can't even be bothered, Sam, who is what he said? Then why were you like basically spying on the program? Also, can I can I just say one? Yeah, absolutely to the next topic very soon. But there was also someone that like pointed it out, like he makes like this after he says like, oh, what a surprise or whatever. He makes his visual like or like physical cue. And he's like, lacky starts like walking over to the chair. Right. Leprechaun. It's because when I watch it the first time, I for some reason thought he was already sitting there. But then when you watch it the second time, you literally watch him get into position. And it's so embarrassing. I couldn't even have the camera on him for three minutes. The camera was off him. I can only imagine he was over there. I was just like, I'm like 90 percent. So what he does before the show is that what they they he tells them he tells his lackeys to do the soundcheck. He goes to sit in another chair and he opens his phone and he's watching his phone the entire time. I'm 100 percent sure he's watching Sam show to make sure that he that he's going live. And the second he did, he's like, uh-huh, he's like, and then he gets on. Yeah, right. He's a gosh. He doesn't know who Sam is yet. He also had his whole apparently his comedy career in his back pocket ready to run through. That's a weird material that and, you know, he, like you said, monitored his phone. And also I enjoy it. I think Sam mentioned it on the show today and he enjoys it now, too. How Crowder mentioned how Rogan won't have Sam on and the Weinsteins won't have Sam on and Sam Harris won't talk to him. And it's like, OK, you and Tim Poole on one of his, when he discussed it on his show yesterday, he mentioned vaguely how he knows of a podcast, major podcast that have blacklisted Sam. And it's like, again, you're just naming these, outing these guys for being scared of Sam. Like, thank you. You think I'm a coward? We're all the cowards together. Also you're keeping track of like all of the things Sam related, like, oh God. And the saddest thing is like, there was a very key part of his argument that was like, well, my viewers wouldn't even want to see you, Sam. And like, I watched a little bit of the stream from the majority report, like after that whole shebang the next day and there was like a caller who came in and he was talking with like a really heavy Southern accent. He's like, I'm a Crowder fan. I got his mug. Love this guy. But, you know, I'm going to be honest, I didn't know who you were, Sam. But to be completely honest, I would have wanted to see the debate. I'm actually sad you guys didn't get to talk. I don't know anything about you. You know, you're not going to change my opinion probably because of how much I already like Steven Crowder. But I wanted to see the conversation. And this guy was like, this guy was like the epitome of like Steven Crowder's audience. And like Sam's, or sorry, not Sam, Steven Crowder's whole argument is like, no one would want to see you. It's like. Well, here's the thing. And, you know, I've heard this from people when I was a regular producer there and I hear it from my show now. Cause on my show, I usually cover, you know, right wing movements and, you know, conspiracy theories on the right. And people reach out to us and say, you know, we found your videos. We were a Crowder fan, Tim Poole fan, Ben Shapiro fan, whatever. I mean, people were tweeting it out today to explain that why it was so important. Like this isn't just like YouTube drama. People see this stuff and, you know, a lot of people don't have their ideology set out in the same way that, you know, all the people on this show probably do. People just come across these big right wing channels because they're really big and popular and they watch it and they enjoy it and they don't get to see anything else. They don't get to see the other side. Unfortunately, there aren't that many big leftist channels because to be fair, the outrage machine sells a lot more on the right and that's not really a thing on the left. And, you know, but when people do come across it and they've said it to Sam, you know, you pulled me out of this stuff and now I'm a left winger or, you know, it's not you solely. Like you helped show me other YouTubers. Now I watch, you know, I watch Vosh or I watch Kyle Kalinsky or I watch the Humanist Report. And, you know, now I'm in this world instead of that world and things make a lot more sense. The thing, the last thing I'll say about Coward with Crowder is that what I, why would he go after his comedy career? That seems like a weak point for him to start off of considering that Crowder is literally a failed comedian while Sam speaks on, is a voice on Bob's Burgers. No simple word is MSNBC correspondent, Bob's Burgers voice actor, and Crowder like dropped his comedy career because he got clowned on by Amy Schumer. Like, oh, I remember? Amy Schumer! Yes, Amy Schumer. Like Amy Schumer isn't even like the beacon of like comedy either. She's like been out at multiple times for stealing jokes and this is who defeats you. I'm like, oh man. And then he's out of the game.