 Welcome everybody to our webinar today. You've joined the ANS webinar about changes to our DOI service. Essentially the idea here is that we address a number of questions that have already come to us and we have an opportunity to ask additional questions. So my name is Jerry Ryder. I work with the Australian National Data Service. I'm based in Adelaide. So we have three speakers today and we'll try and keep to time. So we have plenty of time for your questions. We have Adrienne Burton who's Director of Services for ANS based in Canberra and the DOI service is one of his areas of responsibility. Natasha Simons who's a Senior Data Management Specialist with ANS and she's based up in Brisbane. Many of you will know Natasha through her work with the repository community and her involvement in call and then myself Jerry Ryder here based in Adelaide. So we'll start today with Adrienne and then Natasha and I will address some of the questions that have already come to us. So we'll start with Adrienne giving us an overview of the ANS DOI service and then looking at what's changed recently with the service and why that's changed. Then Natasha and I will work through quite a number of questions that have already been put to us and thank you to those who did respond to our call for questions ahead of time so we could target this session to meet your needs. Then we'll have time for your questions and we've also got some additional sources of information that you might find useful after today. So handing over now to Adrienne to kick us off. Thanks Adrienne. We'll start with just an overview of digital object identifiers because that's the service that we're talking about today. Just to clarify what we're trying to do with the service because some of the questions will be around scope and what's in and out so we might just start with this. So we're doing a digital object identifier. It's something that allows us to uniquely identify the content and of course the history of DOI has come from the publishing area that publishers needed to uniquely identify journal articles. It provides a link to the location so not only an identifier but it's a URL as well as an identifier so it does provide that link to the location on the internet so it's doing two things already. Just use this as a unique identifier but not all unique identifiers are clickable. These ones are. Not only that, when they're clickable if the URL was sort of hardwired in then if ever the location were to change then it would be out of date. You'd get your 404 error. And again in the journal area quite often one journal is brought out by another journal and the URL of the journal article changes because now belongs to a new publisher so they thought about this and so the location can be updated if the location changes if the object itself moves to a different server has a different URL it can be updated which is a really good thing it's at a level of indirection that's called from an engineering point of view and has just means that the DOI number that's out there being published to the world you know millions of people have got this identifier you don't have to tell each individual person we've changed the server location you update it within the DOI system and then the redirect happens automatically. So that's one of the functions the reason why people use such a service this but there are other so we talked about an identifier it's a clickable identifier it's a persistent identifier but there are several of those handle, arcs, etc. there's quite a few different ways of having persistent identifiers DOI is a persistent identifier that has been optimized for referencing scholarly works so it's been optimized for that particular purpose so one of the repercussions of that is that there is metadata there's a mandatory metadata set that's linked to a DOI and that metadata set just assumes a scholarly object so it asks you who's the author what's the title of it when was it created who publishes it, etc. so these are questions that you would only ask about a scholarly work and that's part of the DOI's job to be optimized for identifying scholarly works particularly for that use case of referencing a scholarly work and providing a citation so we come here DOI is a globally unique identifier it's resolvable it's persistent and it's been optimized for scholarly works it has another feature that you can either click on the metadata click on the link and it'll take you to the object identified so your scholarly work or you can go to the DOI system and say oh just give me all the metadata about that object so just given the DOI number you can then also know anything that's in the metadata and because this has been optimized for scholarly works you can know if someone just gives me a DOI number then my system can know with confidence that it will find out who the author is, what the title is those kind of things so it gives you something that you can rely on to have this extra information and to have that function so quite often you can just exchange the DOI numbers and then that makes information exchange very simple saying this data set is related to that DOI and then you can use the DOI system to get all that extra information you don't have to worry about exchanging that as well so that's a feature and the last thing is that the DOI is used in a number of the indexing systems, global indexing systems that index references so your scopuses and your Thompson Reuters they have built-in systems Crossref obviously have built-in systems that use DOIs to track what is happening with references so a number of the indexing systems globally are optimized to use DOIs so that's an overview of that so the ANZ runs a DOI service it's important to note that it's part of the national research infrastructure so NCRIS is a piece of that national research infrastructure it's operated by ANZ so the reason we operate it is to allow research organizations to mint DOIs for data so all those things I talked about in the first slide we want to have a unique identifier for data we want it to be applicable we want it to be persistable persistent we want it to be optimized for talking about data as a scholarly work and we want it to be optimized to be found in these kind of reference indexes of references to works so that's the reason why it exists in order to bring data into that whole world we're not the only people in the world to have thought of that in fact we do this as part of a consortium, a global consortium called DataSite which is one of the consortiums that run the DOI that are part of the international DOI foundation the DataSite consortium as its name says is a set of organizations globally who are committed to making the citation and referencing and identification of data a straightforward thing to make data if you like a first class object a first class output of research the DataSite consortium sits alongside Crossref at that very top level of consortiums that do DOI services and in the very broad Crossref is a consortium of journal publishers as I said they were the ones who actually kicked off DOI and for a very long time Crossref was the only was DOI there was no other consortiums at that top level broadly Crossref caters for the needs of journal publishers and DataSite was formed in order to cater for the needs of data publishers of data repositories data centers we will go into some of the details about that but that's why DataSite exists and that's how we get some of the scope of what's in scope for DataSite we might go on to the next slide there so what's changed now so now we're saying that this service that was part of an Australian National Data Service for allocating identifiers to data we've looked at it and with a marginal increase in our service we can provide a very good service to great literature which wasn't originally a focus for and but it has been suggested to us by the community particularly through call that this would be a good expansion for our service when you're using our service now for great literature we do also ask that you use the resource type that means you tell us that this is the thing being identified is some text and there are options that we'll go into those encoding options for saying what particular type of text it is so there are things that's changed there this is a service that's part of national infrastructure and will continue to be where now the spirit of it is that a lot of our customers are institutional repositories and they're using it for the data objects that are in the institutional repository there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to use it for the great literature and related items as well some things haven't changed whether it's a data set or piece of great literature we expect that the item being identified by the DOI is a sightable part of the scholarly record we expect that the organization that's meeting a DOI is the one that actually manages the and has long term custodianship of the object or the scholarly work that's being identified and we expect that that continuity of access you know appropriate to the scholarly record so for an appropriate number of years that would be expected half life of a journal artically in that particular in that particular discipline that the repository would maintain access or that you have some kind of a plan to maintain access for that time so that's just an overview of the service what we offer, why we offer it the changes that have been made and why those changes have been made I think we now move on to Natasha for a few more details in these areas so we're on to scope of the DOI service so Ann's announced the change in the scope for our DOI minting service on the 5th of April and in extending it to great literature we needed to have a term, great literature because it's a bit of a hazy term and it means sort of different things to different people perhaps so we included some examples of the type of material that we mean when we talk about great literature and we mentioned theses reports unpublished conference papers newsletters, creative works preprint journal articles technical standards and specifications for which the institutional repository is the primary publication point we also noted some of the things that would be out of scope that's for the Ann service not for DOIs in general and they were published peer-reviewed journal articles ephemera teaching and learning materials and book chapters and if you wish to assign a DOI to these types of materials then you need to go through another DOI registration agency such as Crossref so just to point out that the change in the DOI policy for Ann's is in line with the data site business model principles so as Adrian mentioned Ann's acts as an agent for the data site DOI registration agency and great literature is well within the scope of that service and if you'd like to look that up you can look up the data site business model principle document yourself the link is included there so what's in scope for this service these are just running through some of those questions on notice so we were asked could this the Ann service be used for DOIs for journals hosted by our universities so some examples of those journals might be the Queensland Archaeological Research Journal which is hosted by UQ library a lot of these journals use the OJS software and our answer to that was no because these journals are not great literature so therefore you have to consider alternative DOI registration agencies like Crosswrap and get your DOIs through them. Another question that was that book chapters listed as being out of scope as I mentioned earlier what about edited e-books published by our institutional repository can we assign a DOI to individual chapters you could as long as the institutional repository is the only publication point so we're concerned here that there's a risk of creating multiple DOIs if it is a formally published book and a DOI has already been assigned and assigned to those chapters. Other questions we were asked can DOIs be assigned to creative works such as exhibitions performances and presentations and that's clearly within the scope of the Ann service and for data site as well as long as these things are a siteable contribution to the scholarly record and can fulfill the basic requirements for DOI minting i.e. there's a minimal amount of metadata required. Another question was can we mint DOIs for preprints and postprints held in our institutional repository. Yes DOIs can be assigned to preprints but not generally to postprints so the advice here is that a postprint should refer to the DOI assigned by the publisher. I just want to note here that Crosswrap just I think about a week ago perhaps announced that you can actually mint DOIs for preprints via their service now they've expanded the scope of their service to include preprints so therefore you have a choice of DOI registration agencies if you're going to assign a DOI to preprints you could use the Ann service or you could use Crosswrap or another DOI registration agency. Here's a tricky one can DOIs be assigned to blogs, reports to government, academic websites when captured in the institutional repository. They can again we go back to those overarching questions so are they citable contributions to the scholarly record and can they fulfill the basic requirements for minting DOIs. So if you're thinking about assigning DOIs to this type of material you need to think about whether you can guarantee persistent access to these types of materials over time and if you have agreement to mint a DOI from the resource owner so if you mint a DOI to a blog that points to somebody's blog instead of stores it in your institutional repository then perhaps there's an issue there you may not be able to maintain long term access to that blog so these are just things to think about when you're looking at those types of materials. Can DOIs be assigned to conference posters? Yes absolutely and again go back to those overarching questions about how you can provide persistent access to that over time and lastly a question can DOIs be assigned to tweets? I guess you could apply some of the criteria listed above is it a citable contribution to the scholarly record and so forth but I think in general it's better to tweet a DOI than to put a DOI on a tweet and this is about your ability to guarantee persistent access to that tweet over time and having agreement to mint the DOI from the resource owner. Thanks Natasha. So Natasha has talked a bit about what's in scope and hopefully we've covered most of your questions about what's in scope for the ANS DOI service. Another kind of type of question we received was what do I need to do so how do I get started? So for those organisations that are already using the ANS service to mint DOIs for data they will have already completed a site my data agreement which is the agreement that we have with institutions who are using the DOI service essentially where they agree to ensure that the DOIs they mint using the service remain persistent over time. The question was do I need another agreement for minting for grey literature and the answer is no if you already have an agreement in place that agreement is fine to cover the additional resource type but if you haven't previously used the ANS service you will need to complete one of the agreements and at the end of this slide presentation there are a few links that would take you to this sort of information on the ANS website. The ANS DOI service is offered as a manual minting service or a machine to machine service so depending on the volume of DOIs that you mint and perhaps where you are in your technical development for services people can use either or even both if they choose. The question was raised can I use either of those minting options to mint DOIs for grey literature and again yes you can use either option the service makes no real distinction in terms of what type of materials being having a DOI minted for it. Organisations that are already minting DOIs service have an account with us that allows the technical infrastructure to talk to each other so the ANS DOI service and the institutional infrastructure and the question was asked do we need a separate account if we are minting DOIs for grey literature held in one repository when our data is held in another repository so really a question about location of the resource and whether that determines whether a new account is needed and the answer there is no you don't need another account in fact ANS does prefer one account per institution where possible but we recognise that in some cases a different approach may work better for you but it's certainly not a requirement to establish a separate minting account if you're holding your grey literature in one repository and your data in another and a minting DOIs for both. Some people obviously have lots of grey literature that they are thinking about the potential to assign DOIs to and we have had the question about the ability to bulk mint now ANS doesn't offer currently a bulk minting service as such it is something on our roadmap but we do have the ability to automate the minting of a high number of DOIs and we have worked with one or two organisations who have had that particular requirement so we suggest there that you do contact us if you do have this particular requirement and we could have a discussion with you about what might be possible as Adrian mentioned at the outset the DOIs issued via the ANS service come from the data site service and the question was raised as to whether the grey literature assigned a DOI would be searchable in data site and yes absolutely it will be it's again by data site just treated as another type of resource and your metadata does get sent to data site where it does become searchable. Very important question for many people is about a cost and ANS doesn't charge a fee for minting DOIs for grey literature or for data so that hasn't changed depending on the resource type there's no implication there. This next question Adrian alluded to in his presentation that we were asked more than once about should we swap to DOIs if we're already assigning handles to our feces and that's really a business decision as Adrian mentioned DOIs are a form of handle and they're optimised for citation and identification of references. Something that we do know is that they're very well recognised across the scholarly community so they do have I guess some credibility if you like but that's really up to you as to which what works best for you whether you prefer to stick with your handles or move to DOIs. People were interested to know whether the DOIs for their grey literature would appear in research data after Australia which is the discovery portal for research data holdings across Australian institutions and the answer to that is no, not as a matter of course the metadata streams for the and DOIs service and for research data Australia are actually separate and so there wouldn't be an automatic visibility of those DOIs in research data Australia. However where you have grey literature that's related to a data collection that you're describing in research data Australia we would encourage you to include the DOI for your grey literature in the related information element in your collection records this way what you're doing is putting in an actionable link to the grey literature from a related data set that's been described in research data Australia so we would encourage you to think about how you can maximise the value you get back from the DOIs you meant for both data and grey literature by making those connections where possible which helped lead users to related resources so that's something to think about how can we be sure that only one DOI will be minted for a resource well that's not something that ANS can resolve we don't have a mechanism to check whether a DOI has already been minted for a resource so that's something that you would need to determine before minting your end I mean you can obviously look at things like the crossref metadata and the data site metadata but that's not a service that ANS offers to check where the DOIs have already been minted for items the best point to issue a DOI in our workflow well really that's a business decision for you to make depending on how your workflows operate in your organisation we have been asked this question a couple of times so what ANS could do if it's of interest to the community is facilitate some sharing of workflows so people do have documented workflows for how they issue and manage their DOIs for either data or now great literature or both would be happy to put that information somewhere where it could be shared with others who would have an interest in the same type of information Natasha mentioned earlier about the primary publication point as being a criteria for assigning DOIs so that we minimise the risk of duplication of DOIs and we were asked the question about the primary publication point and what we mean is that it is the primary place for publishing the resource it's not likely to be published anywhere else where a DOI could be assigned to it nearly there we're on the home stretch now of the questions that were given to us on notice people asked about reports out of the system so they mentioned the crossref reports in particular we can advise that data site does provide some statistics for the DOIs minted through the ANS service and the URL is up there if you want to have a look at some examples of what you can get back out of the system also within the ANS registry which is where you can manage the DOIs you minted through the ANS service you can also have a look at you can also bring up a list of all of the DOIs you've minted check for broken links and things like that but as noted there you must already have a DOI service account to be able to access these features in the ANS registry Adrian mentioned about the additional piece of metadata of resource type that we're asking people to provide so that we can have some idea of how often the service is being used for data and how often it's being used for text the data site metadata you can choose to just select text as a vocav term as a resource type but you could also combine it with either free text terms that we'd recommend using the CASRAE Publications Resource Type List if you wish to have a more granular description of your type so people asked us can we specify that it's a report or a conference paper you know or whatever type of material it is that is possible and we would recommend that if you want to do that that you use the Publications Resource Type List it's probably also timely to mention that currently at the moment resource type is not a mandatory field for data sites they have only five mandatory fields for minting a DOI but we do know that data sites are currently reviewing their metadata schema and we're expecting a new version to come out later this year and we anticipate that resource type will become a mandatory element at that point as we'll maintain backwards compatibility for as long as feasible with previous versions but I guess just to highlight that while at the moment data sites not asking for that field as a mandatory element that is likely to change in the not too distant future So that completes the questions responses to questions that we had already been asked and now is our opportunity or your opportunity to ask questions that perhaps we haven't managed to cover today The first one we have is we are experiencing requests for theses to be taken down from the repository after the author publishes an article from the theses research and the journal publisher demands it is it is therefore not persistent access it is therefore not persistent access to theses it's not actually a question but I think it's more looking for comment In that sense you can anticipate that there will be a request to take theses down I don't think you'd necessarily not allocate an identifier to theses because someone may ask you to take it down it is possible when the object is not available for a particular reason that you have a little tombstone for the thing that says yes it was it was available here but it was taken down because it was harmful to babies or it was killing people or something like that so in this instance I suppose you can maintain a tombstone that says it's been taken down because now it's been republished by a publisher or something like that sounds like a bit of an edge case and not something that you could really predict at the time and at the time I think of publishing the thesis you would assume that this is a valid part of the scholarly record and I would proceed on that basis so I don't think you'd stop just because of there are some edge cases like this okay we've got Sam here can we have DOI for a pre-published version of the research work and then have the DOI by the publisher after the work is published does this corrupt the integrity of the reporting and analysis well what others the Natasha and Jerry want to say something Crossref are certainly proposing this I think they propose to bring it in online in August and there's some discussion happening now on the Crossref blog so if you'd like to go and comment there that would be a good place to have the conversation I think their assumption is that the two would be linked and the two identifiers would be formally linked as well and that therefore if you wanted to know the overall impact of the thing then you could add the two identifiers together or if you needed to know that there is a formally published thing later than the two identifiers linked. Jerry anything to add there on Natasha? No I don't think I've got anything to add to that I think you've probably covered it Adrian unless Natasha's got anything to add from her experience No I think you would just link them in the way that Adrian suggested because if you assign it to the pre-print it gives a chance for people to read that and cite it and you still get statistics on that DOI and then you'll have one also on the published version that will be linked through the metadata that you provide for the DOI And certainly Jeff in his blog posting maybe we can grab that or posting and send it around to something there's a good discussion there on the relationship between the pre-print and the published version The publication in the repository has been assigned to DOI and then is updated or revised is a new DOI required? Yes The idea I guess with a DOI is that you're assigning it to something that is I guess fixed So if you have got revisions to an item and this is a question that comes up quite often in the data world where you have revisions or changes to the item a new DOI should be assigned if somebody cited an earlier version then that should remain as is if someone's citing a later version that should remain as is So in terms of that sort of reproducibility then anything that has that changes new versions should have a new DOI One of the things and it pertains to the previous question as well one of the things that the data site metadata schema allows you to do is to link related materials So you can indicate through your data site metadata that this DOI is related to that DOI or a previous version of a child of or some other sort of relationship so it's possible to express those relationships through the data site metadata so that if people are find version one they can also be alerted to the fact that there's a version two I think we could have a versioning policy that was visible there for these kind of things sometimes it was a typo then you have a policy that says for non trivial or non consequential updates like full stops and things like that then we do not change the version but we could have that explicit whereas if you've had to retract something and change something then obviously that's a new version that we could have a new DOI for that but whatever the decisions are there we could have those policies explicit up in the repository so a number of institutions have created policies and guidelines around DOI minting just for that purpose so I believe there's some examples of those linked on the ANS website so perhaps we can send those around if checking for existing DOIs is cross- breadth and data site the only databases that are available to check for existing DOIs well just to be here as we said there are a number of consortia that operate DOI infrastructure at that top level I believe there's about 10 at the moment certainly data site and cross- breadth are the two big ones and then there's a number of regional operators I'm not 100% sure I have to get back to you on the technical I know that there is a service that's cross- breadth now the cross- breadth and data site certainly runs they give this DOI we can tell you which consortium minted the DOI and therefore where to send your query to about the metadata so that's certainly a service they provide I can't tell you offhand whether the other eight big data site registration agencies have the same metadata search infrastructure online and whether that's available through that brokerage service but again we can put a link to that up afterwards the regional ones there's one for the Korean KISTI and there's one for a Japanese national information service they're very service specific it certainly cross- breadth takes in pretty much all journal publishers and data site most of the data centers the DOI tool doesn't appear to allow you to select a resource type unless you're accompanied with a text description can someone verify if this is the case or provided us so I'm assuming that that question pertains to the manual minting tool in the ANTS registry so there is a control category in the recommended metadata set there that you can choose from for resource type and text is one of the selections in that vocabulary but there's also a free text box associated with that where you can then indicate additional information like a more granular level of description of the resource type so look for that free text and as I mentioned earlier we'd recommend you look at the CASRAE vocabulary to enhance your description of the actual resource type and certainly with the introduction of here the requirement to provide a resource type for when you're minting for grade literature and as Jerry flagged the introduction of mandatory resource types or all data site DOIs during this year we're anticipating the timeline will be with those two developments we'll be re-looking at the ANTS tools just to make sure they're really doing what we want them to do A question here, how does the machine-to-machine information interchange work? Information exchange is that between ANTS service and the repository? That's possibly anyway let's answer that question Either you can come to the ANTS website and the services website login and create a DOI by giving you your mandatory metadata so that's a manual way of doing it or you can do it by having it plugged into your workflow so that for example when somebody publishes an object in your repository at that point your system, your software system contacts and there's a little authentication thing that checks your ID, it's actually you have an account with this and your IP address is the right one and then there's a machine-to-machine exchange that says ANTS says here's your DOI your system says here's the metadata and then that's registered back with the international DOI system and that's all done within a split second or within a couple of seconds because we have to communicate off to Europe as well so anyway that's in general in terms of how the machine-to-machine thing works we recommend that you do it that way because it means that it's it's kind of integrated into your workflow it means that as soon as something is published then that's available in the metadata of your published object and I've just put up on the screen some links the top link about the ANTS DOI service is a general introduction to the ANTS DOI service but if you are interested in a bit more of the nitty-gritty how it works go down to the service documentation and I suspect most of the questions you have around how the service works would be answered in that so if you are interested in that aspect please have a look at the documentation there It's a really good question, I think it's not a comment but it says you can redact the part thesis that is published or your chapters become journal articles but I think you'd then get a different DOI Probably because you have a different number of chapters in your thesis Would access by request a copy be sufficient if the metadata record remains persistent and I think this question came in when we were having the discussion about pulling off a thesis because the journal publisher requested it and you were talking about a tune-flowing record so you could something like this request a copy on that record Like a mediated access to the material rather than just click here and download I think it's probably the That's right Jerry We'll take that as a comment It's a comment Is reporting on DOIs meted by an institution supported by the Site My Data DOI API? No not at the moment It's not something that's supported by DataSite That's not my data Yes so DataSite at the moment across RIF does monthly resolutions etc DataSite is developing that capability So it's not possible to do that at the moment for institution by institution But can I just mention that you can log into and services and go to the My DOIs section and see a list of all the DOIs that you have minted at your institution so I'm not sure exactly what that question covered but I'm just going to add that Can I mint a DOI for data independent of the scholarly activity? For instance our repository has open data a scholar one might extract it for paper one, a scholar two might extract for paper two, paper one and two have DOI for their data but can the data in the repository have its own independent DOI from ANDS or should we use something else? So I think that might be a question about related data and related publications What is the question about sections of the data because if you're using the same data you would have the data's DOI So just really the question at the end of it, paper one and paper two have DOI for their data Can the data in the repository have its own independent DOI from ANDS or should we use something else? Yes If you have data in your repository can and we recommend it does have a DOI and you can mint that through the ANDS service even if it's not related to papers in your repository And if scholar one and scholar two are using the data they should be using a DOI already associated with the data not minting a new one for the fact that they have pulled down the data If they've if they've processed the data or changed the data anyway and actually created a new data set out of that Scholar one pulls down the data does something clever with it and produces what is essentially a new data set or a derived data set that derived data set could in fact have its own DOI because it is something new So again you can link things together and reference things in the metadata associated with the records so that the relationship between the two items can be understood Given that access is IP limited do all library staff who intend to use the DOI web form need to register? So access to the DOI web form is not IP limited access to the web form is just if you have an account you log in, now you could have a generic account for your institution or you can get several people from the same institution also logging in there's no IP restriction on the manual web form you just you need to have the account, the password and the account name the IP restriction I mentioned that that only applies for the machine to machine service Okay so when we when meeting the DOI is there a field for copyright or license information? Madly grabs her copy of the data site schema I'll look at that in the first page I open up to says that there is a data type that there is an option called copyrighted but look that's probably not a question to answer perhaps on the fly I'd like to actually have a closer look at the schema and see how that would that unless Adrian happens to know off the top of his head It's a very comprehensive metadata scheme the DOI metadata kernel as it's called so it has a lot of stuff in there you're not required to necessarily fill it all out in order to get a DOI but you are required to provide five slash six elements Yep and we can include a link to the schema if people are interested and I can see that there is a data site element for rights but as Adrian mentioned it's not one of the mandatory elements although if that's something you would like to include you certainly can but in the follow up information after this webinar I'll send a link to the current version of the schema so that you get a sense for how comprehensive it actually is and what your options might be if you're trying to determine what metadata you'll provide as part of the minting process Also under rights there's an example record that shows you can actually link to a URI there in the metadata like the Creative Commons URI when you're providing that information Just on that the amount and quality of metadata for a DOI there is a minimum amount that can see your DOI you then need to think about what some of the uses are a very important one that's coming on board and I would just advise people to keep that in mind is that Crossref and Data Sider really stepping up their cooperation around the linkages between published article and it's the data that underpins it or vice versa so I would actually start to recommend that people think about if you have got the related if you've got minting a DOI for some great literature and it has you know what the related data sets are that it will be in your interest I think to make that explicit in the DOI metadata because the big DOI consortiums are going to start pulling that information and then creating a global view of the links between data sets and literature and this would be a really good way of getting your stuff in there If a data set has a fixture DOI can the DOI be changed if the data is moved to another location? Well no, that's the premise I guess of a DOI is that you should be able to update the location to which the DOI points that's how the persistence is maintained However if the DOI is issued by FigShare then it's up to FigShare to note that change The Castery vocab doesn't cover lots of important related literature types, submissions, evaluations case studies etc. Are there other resource type vocabs that you can suggest we use? There are plenty of others around that you could choose from. I could provide a list of probably three or four I guess we've recommended CASRAE because that's the one recommended by data site but if people are interested in others I can send links around to a couple of others that we're aware of Still on the CASRAE vocab it says if using the CASRAE vocab there's further granularity that goes in a free text field Yes, if you're using the manual minting option, yes it does So you can pull down that higher level resource type equals text from the control vocabulary and then the rate of granularity goes into a free text box We'll put the CASRAE drop down list into there and others if people want to suggest them Can you meet DOIs for material not in your repository if it is being managed by a secure and reliable organisation with a commitment to long-term management? You would want to have a very good understanding with the other organisation Like the case by case And that is the last of the questions Is there a comment? There's one there from data site update I think that's actually about I'm not entirely sure but I think that's about how many times does the citation count for a metadata record in research data Australia get refreshed But it doesn't actually get refreshed It doesn't draw that information from data site, it actually draws it from the Thomson Reuters data citation index As far as the communications between and and data site So if you update something in our service we immediately register it with data site As far as I know that's about all immediately There is, when you mince sometimes there is a bit of a delay within the DOI system for some updates that may take 24 hours for it to really sync through redirect services in the handle system But our stuff is immediately registered with data site Well we are right on time I'd like to thank everybody for coming along today and for your questions It's been a really useful session, I hope you have found it useful too inevitably some of you at least will have questions after today So if you do please contact either your ANS outreach officer or email services ans.org.au and then it will get passed on to the most appropriate person whether it's a technical question or a policy type question So thank you all for attending today Thanks to Adrian, Susanna and Natasha for your participation and we look forward to seeing you at another ANS event in the not too distant future