 How would you measure success and I know that that that may be contextual maybe not it is it is for me It is very contextual and in the classroom I consider successes when I reached a student that had not been reached before and I can I have memories of of those and Lack of success or failure is when we departed our relationship and I had not affected their lives And and in many cases I can honestly look back And say I there were kids youngsters learners that I did not reach and that bothers me still That we weren't able to work that out, but all as I move through the career success has been defined and right now Success for me is that that we begin to report in very positive ways Results for student learning in this country. It is Such an important factor for the lives of those youngsters more so than it has been in our history And if we don't reach every one of these students if we don't set high standards for learning and Some folks when they hear this conversation about setting college and career-ready standards They say are you being unfair to students? You're pushing them beyond where they are It the the ultimate failure of us all of us in this is that we put a student through an education process And they're not prepared to face life and so for me success right now is all those youngsters Getting to a point where they can take that next step in life in a successful way that they did they they are successful in college They do begin a career pathway of success that they begin to interact with folks in society in a way that they're contributing citizen Those are the ultimate success factors. Well, that's a long way from those day-to-day successes So you have to back away from that and and for me in many ways There are smaller successes that sort of lead to that larger success Having strong leaders in the class in the in the buildings those principles are so important to the learning process they have the hardest job in education today and Supporting them and providing resources around them in a way that's positive and giving them the kind of training and support structure is important Having teachers who have the competence and the and the passion for working with students and having systems wrapped around students that are More supportive than than many of those students have in their personal lives Those are the short-term indicators and I think for me stepping back and asking the question where the leverage points Those determine the kind of areas where I begin to determine successes and failures and where I spend my energy One of the biggest things that you were involved with When you were part of the council of chief state school officers was the the new standards Yes, you were instrumental in that and it's been a you know, it's been all kind of it's been all over the news for years now It's been controversial They've been re-evaluated in some states and improved upon As you look back now at that, you know a few years later Would you have done things differently? Probably done some things differently. I would not have backed away from the the ultimate goal that we had established I landed at the council of Having been a commissioner in two states and I would say and most recently in Kentucky. I'd spent ten years in that state and We in earnest had attempted to set standards for learning and In all honesty when I read those standards, they were so broad That if I were a teacher in a classroom, I wouldn't be able to see where the emphasis isn't teachers in earnest We're trying to cover all those things that we were saying were important in a discipline but In that attempt they were covering too much and weren't going deeply into this so that students could develop understanding. I Had to experienced as a commissioner standards that were Not coherent didn't seem to flow from pre-requisite knowledge to knowledge later on I experienced standards that were poorly worded But it wasn't because we were attempting to set low standards or broad standards or weak standards It was that we just didn't have the expertise to do that as a state education agency and I'd seen other states Other commissioners trying to do the same thing But then also I saw in other states very very weak standards You could literally go from one state to another and be redefined in terms of your proficiency levels and learning so when I Approach that agency I came there with this frustration and I felt like It wasn't the responsibility of the federal government to solve this problem. There have been some attempts the First Bush administration had attempted to do some work on this Clinton's goals through thousands so there had been Attempts to and frustration the business community was expressing frustration But I felt like the right people to do this were the state commissioners of education And so I still believe today that that's something we should have taken on and and and I do believe that we did a good job clearly those Standards that we established collectively Were much better than standards that existed before now The frustrations in this whole process were not about the development process of those standards I was frankly very surprised that so many states wanted to do this work, but The the real issues around the struggle were the outreach to the community helping people understand why it's important to set these Standards of success how it's important to the students, but to this country in this global world And we now have I think a much better condition in this country But it's the engagement of the federal government and all of that led to resistance We've had a number of states question the end result for me is that we now are a standards-based country We have much better in realistic and higher standards for our students. They're much more coherent. We have teachers who like them We need to support those teachers And I think the success or failure of any work like this and it was huge and it was massive national effort on the part of states worthwhile Still a lot of issues that need to be resolved if we're going to be successful in implementation So it sounds like the foundation has been set and and you certainly believe that there's there's room for for growth For you know analysis of what's been done up to this point and improvement and those standards are Who knows what kind of revisions need to be made? But those revisions ought to be made by thoughtful researchers who are looking at how they're being implemented where the successes are in the field And we need tools that support teachers in this process because you cannot implement these new standards Whether they be the common core standards or whether they be other college and career-ready standards in the state We shouldn't back away from that commitment to the to these high standards and you can't do this without Affecting the materials that teachers have to support the work in the classroom without redesigning professional growth and development without supporting building level leaders in that in that quest of supporting teacher growth and development So there there are a number of areas where this country is going to have to put resources More effectively and in wiser ways than we have in the past in order to be successful As you look at your career and you've been you've been active for for quite a while and a variety of roles You know in this topic today is about your legacy What how do you want to be remembered in education? I? Guess it gets back to sort of the personal level. I I hope people look at Gene Wilhoit as a person who? Was anchored in a desire to affect in a positive way the learning of children in this country and that beyond that sort of passion for learning Applied himself to that and attempted to work with others in honest and open ways To reach this goal Holding on to those values and not equivocating on this this quest for a better future for our country and for our kids But being willing to be a partner with folks as we get it done if you were standing before a room full of teachers principles District superintendents state superintendents What advice or words of encouragement would you give them? You know we're in difficult times education is you know being talked about extensively there are elections coming up You know in education is a major component of that It's I think it's tough to be an educator. It is tough tougher than it has ever been and in many cases teachers are Are accused of being the the responsible agent for the what people called the decline of education? It's not really a decline. It's we're living in a world where there's dramatic change, and it's not just an education It's a it's occurring across this world and Keep in perspective that that this is this is a major point in history where we're making these kinds of transitions It's going to require more of us I would never say to a teacher or an ed minister today that life is going to be easier I think you've got to assume that it's going to be complex. It's going to be difficult but the engagement of an adult in this process of trying to figure out ways to educate children who we're going to be our Next generation is the most worthy enterprise that one could be engaged in There's not something in this society that I think is more important. So first I would say to them You're doing the right work for this country and for those kids, but We're going to go we're going to go through changes What these kids are going to have to do is is greater and Loftier than what we had to do and in order to do that We're going to have to look differently at the world be open to these ideas be open to change apply yourself very directly To the enterprise but keep the faith Well, Jean, it's been a pleasure having you on my baby with you. Thank you very much and I do hope that you'll be able to come back again like I'd like to do enjoy it And thank you for joining us on this edition of ICF Insights