 Well, back with the breakfast and at this point we will be looking at the inclusion of persons with disability in a political process. However, the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, has said that many of the 19 million Nigerians living with disability were registered voters and they would do everything to dismantle barriers that exclude them from a electoral process. Well, according to ExPATH, marginalisation of people with disability extends beyond the elections to all the facets of life in Niger. Many have complained of inadequate healthcare and lack of public access to public facilities, however. Now, part of 2023, INEC policy framework was launched for the inclusion of persons living with disabilities in all aspects of the electoral process and to reduce the barriers that they face. The electoral body now allows people to include their particular disability on their voter registration so it can make plans for their needs. Also, the 2022 signed Electoral Act mandates that the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, takes a reasonable step to ensure that persons living with disabilities are provided with suitable means of communication during the elections and, you know, prior to the elections as well. Now, joining us to understand how far this framework has been implemented is Omotoke Olubode. I hope I got your name very well. She's the founder of the Autism Awareness Foundation. Motoke, thank you for joining us. Happy new year. But I'd like to get your overview of the inclusion. I mean, generally, before we delve into, you know, politics, those who live with disability, persons living with disability in Nigeria, how do you think they have fed? Have they been discriminated? Have we made progress? What has been the journey and the story? Yeah, I think we can tag the story of persons living with disability with the issue of stigmatization and marginalization. A lot of people living with disability are not being catered for and, you know, it starts from the foundation. Let's look at education, for example. How many persons, you know, living with disability are being educated? Not just being in school. The real question is, are they being provided, you know, the necessary tools that they need while in school? For example, a child with hearing impairment, does she have a rearing age, you know, to facilitate the learning process? Then you move from there to skills, you know, acquisition. If you cannot go to school, at least you should be able to, you know, learn a particular skill, you know. How much of that have the government done? Then you move to the workplace, you know. How much of persons with disability do we have in our workplace? And if all of this is not being catered for, if laws or policies are being made, but they are not being implemented, it's also going to, you know, disrupt the whole process of ensuring that persons living with disability are being included in the society. And a lot, a lot of organizations, you know, are coming up to speak up that persons living with disability must be properly, you know, empowered before we can, you know, categorically say that, okay, they are going for electoral position or to be nominated in any political position. So, but in all of this, what would you say is the challenge in that, you know, holistic analysis that you've given? We can start with accessibility issues. You know, most of our buildings in Nigeria are not accessible, even our roads. We, you know, we neurotypicals, we also have our issues, you know, going from one location to another. Imagine someone on a wheelchair. How does such a person access roads here and everything? Then we can also move on to healthcare. If you do not have, you know, if you're not in good health, how then do you go about saying you want to vie for a position or you want to work in a place? So the challenges are like different disabilities with their own peculiar challenges that face them. For example, a person with hearing impairment, visual impairment, there's so many groups of disability. So if we do not look at it one after the other, what works for A, might not actually work for B. And then we have, you know, the saying that there is nothing for us without us. So I've seen a lot of people, a lot of organizations or even governments, you know, trying to provide solutions to persons with disability without including the set of persons with disabilities. And how are you sure that whatever solution that is being getting from that is actually going to solve, you know, that challenges. So, so do you think that that's the case with Niger, that those who live with disability are not carried along in terms of policy formulation? I think most times, yes, they're not being carried along. You know, you have meetings, you have electoral organizing trainings to train their adult staff. The real question is, do you have persons with disability in that training? So actually state out what their challenges are. But I remember that in 2018, if I'm not mistaken, I mean 2018 part of the 2019 elections, INEC made a lot of persons, you know, those who were living with disability were part of the, you know, observing community. They were observers for the elections. And so I'm beginning to wonder when you say that, you know, government is not including these persons in the policy formulation process. Let's take it on the percentage. How many persons were involved in that process? Just like you said, we have over 19 million persons with disability in Nigeria. So if INEC has gone off to train their staff, okay, when you get to the polling unit, these are the things you need to watch out for, these are the things you need to do. The real question is, on the day of the election, are these things being really implemented? Are they being implemented? Are they being done in the proper way? Or are they doing this just to tick, you know, in their list of things they've done? Oh, we've implemented persons with disability, they were at our polling unit and all of that. The real question is, are they really, really being involved? Just like we would say, if you want to do something for the youth, let the youth to be the set of people that will be there to really state that these are the things that we need. So if that is not being done, I think our governments, you know, and even organizations, CSOs, that are trying to, you know, create awareness for persons with disabilities, we should involve persons really living with disability in that process so that they are able to say exactly what they need, what the government can do, what individuals can do, what CSOs can do to actually make, you know, it's like a combined effort. We can't do it alone. And when this effort comes together, it's actually have like a huge effect. Okay, so, but let's get back to, you know, the 2023 elections. What are the legal frameworks or policies that have been put in place to ensure that there's inclusion of persons with disability? Are there any? Of course, there will always be, you know, policies, there will always be hats that have been put in place. For example, one of this is that when anybody with disabilities is on the queue, you should give them priority first. So if you have someone with a working stake or someone with visual impairments or someone with hearing impairments or someone on the wheelchair or any other disability, you should give them, you know, the first power that they should cast their vote first. But the sort of the matter is do people, now not with the ad hoc staff of the annual coffeesupport. Now, do people already have this understanding that when you see a person with disability, you have to give them that opportunity for them to cast their vote first? Because if that orientation and that awareness is not there for people, then you have to push out him. Oh, I was on the queue first. I was on the line first. No, no, no. So I think that before, you know, we get to that point of, you know, acceptance of the people, I mean, general acceptance by the public or every other person. I want to begin to look at, we know that there's been a budget that's been made for the inclusion. Just like it was stated, the INEC chairman had mentioned that there's a provision for when you're feeling your, you know, feeling the forms, you would indicate the kind of disability that you're faced with. And this will make for provision. So I'd like to ask pre the election. I mean, we're still pre-election now. You know, so do you think that INEC, all of this has been encapsulated, the means of communication, all of the equipments that are necessary because we're talking about persons living with disability, their provision of these things, they're not just regular, for instance, those who cannot see have this necessary, you know, equipment being provided by INEC and, you know, the relevant bodies saddled with the responsibility of conducting the elections. That's where I'm driving at. Okay. So like I said the other time, it's very easy, you know, to say this will be provided for, but we cannot really ascertain how much of this equipment will be provided for on the day of election. So for example, just like you said, persons with visual impairment, they should be provided a magnifying glass so that, you know, when they get there, they're able to, you know, see the ballot paper and cast their foot without a top party telling them, oh, this is where you need to turn print and all of that. For example, people with hearing impairment, they should be a sign language interpreter right there to interpret what has been written or if someone is trying to communicate with them. But like I said, we cannot really, you know, ascertain how much of this is being prepared for until the day of election. Until the day of election, there's registration. Of course. So if that's not there during the period of registration, because there's no way you cast your vote without having to, you know, go register, get your PVCs and what have you. So I'm talking about that entire process. Of course. People are getting their PVC. So that has already been, you know, in the form. People have already indicated, oh, I'm someone living with this disability, I'm someone living with this disability. So in the process of this registration, what these things provided for, do you think they were provided for? You know, you need the magnifying glasses and what have you. Of course, you know, in some centers, they do have access to all these things. Of course, what in some centers, it might not be the case. For example, in Lagos, in Abuja, there are people, you know, who have been able to say that or when they went to register for their PVC, they were able to see a sign language interpreter that they were able to provide with the necessary help. But let's take it back to the north. Is it the same thing over there? So I explained the other time that it is easier for the INEC, you know, to say they will provide this, but how much of it will be provided for is another thing that we also need to look into. So for example, in a particular street, we have like, let's say five police units. So is INEC able to give each police unit their own sign language interpreter? Are they being able to give them their own magnifying glasses? Because I can tell you, almost every home, almost every house has persons living with disability units. So but understanding what it is and looking at our climb, like you have rightly mentioned, where a country is still grappling with a lot of issues, if you say, of course, persons who also live with disability should be considered in terms of road infrastructure, special facilities for them because of this impairment. But you know that we're still also grappling to have the basic things. Those who are not, you know, disabled, right? So it's not necessarily, might necessarily not be an issue of marginalization, just an issue of leadership that has not been able to cater for the entire populace without saying, okay, you're tilting towards the side or you're tilting towards the other side. But you know, still looking at this particular issue now, what do you think are the challenges? Why do we have all of this obstruction? I think the foundational cause of it is lack of awareness. Let me put it that way. You know, take for example, while we're growing up, how many persons with disability do we know, you know, that we are friends? We probably don't have any. And you know, it just grows on like that. Back like 20, 30 years ago, people living with disability, are they being educated? So if they are not being educated, it's just like a vicious circle of poverty. You just go with round and round and round. Before you know it, they are being excluded. And just like you said, we, the typicals are still trying to grasp the basic necessity of life. How much more for persons living with disability? But the truth of the matter is we cannot continue to feel like, because other people are still trying to, you know, get their own basic needs and then we continue to segregate some set of people. It's just, it will continue that way. And it's, we're not going to be having all the resources at once. It's not possible. We're not going to jump out of recession, out of whatever it is that we have in the country at once. So as we grow, we need to also consider persons living with disability along the journey. Because if not, at the end of the day, we're going to still have the cases of where the typical beings like me and you have gone far ahead and then people with disability are just trying to come up to us in the workplace. I see this all the time. How many persons with disability do we have? So if persons living with disability do not even have, they're not even independent, you know, how much more will they be able to say they want to go to the polling unit to vote? And people can also recognize the fact that they have the right to actually vote. You see people with disability at the polling unit and people will be looking at them like, what have you come here to do? Do we need people like you here? So let's also still continue in this light. Now, apart from the fact that, you know, we talk about political apartheid and that's, you know, a conditional situation where people just feel like, hey, I don't want to be part of the electoral process. So do you also think that political apartheid is also a major issue? Why those living with disability are excluded from the political process? Not necessarily that they have been marginalized? Yeah, I think it's also part of it. For example, when they say, let's say there's a meeting in the particular building and then it's not even accessible for them. How do they go going about for them to be in a particular party? I mean, that is not there. Then they decide to just stay alone and even probably persons living with disability may just form their own party and then feel like, okay, since we have been excluded, we don't want to be part of what does not work. These are things that we need and if these things are not being made, probably we have our own party and then we're able to do things in our own way. But I think the major issue here is, in as much as the government is still trying to, you know, provide, in as much as INEC is still trying to put in place different things that will enable persons living with disabilities to have a smooth voting process. We as individuals also can also make it possible for them. When we get to the polling units, when we see them, you know, vying for a position, we should support them. Like I said, the government cannot do it alone. The support of we individuals within the community is so important. And by giving them this support, they also have the strength to continue to carry on. You know, persons with disabilities go to work place for interview and immediately you see them, you tell them, oh, sorry, this job is closed for now. Or they go to a party, they want to join and they tell them, oh, sorry, we don't have provisions to cater for the kind of person that you have. So if all these bottlenecks are not being removed for persons living with disability, then the process will just continue that way. So while we're waiting for INEC to provide us with everything that we need, while we're waiting for government to step up to their responsibility, we as citizens, we as individuals also have a major role to play. I say this all the time. We also have a major role to play to ensure that persons living with disability are not being excluded in our community. So what would you say is the level of inclusion now and for the 2023 elections? I mean, pre-election, those who are vying for political offices, do you have, what's the number, what's the statistics? And those who would who have registered, you know, to cast their votes and how many persons have collected their PVC. Can you, you know, give us an idea of, you know, a percentage, maybe a percentage or, you know, in figures? Okay, I would say for the percentage and the numbers in figure, I'm not sure we have that. But let me just give an overview of what I know now currently that is obtainable. Let's say 25% out of 100% because, you know, we'll be involved in this election. No, I've collected that PVC that just what you asked about people who have collected their PVC and all of that. I would say maybe 25% out of 100% of people who have registered for it. Then, you know, it's a different thing to collect your PVC. And it's another different thing to go out to vote on the day of the election. So in terms of persons living with disability, how they are kind of ready to go out to vote, I'm not sure I'll be able to give 35% for that. Like I said, even getting your PVC is enough work on its own. How do a person leave their own home or wherever they stay to go to the collection points to get their PVC? I mean, if they find it difficult to do that, then they would rather not just go, you know, all together. I mean, if this PVC is not being gotten out then do they come out to vote on the day of the election? So I think what we can do is, I don't know, maybe government should try and, you know, they have a lot of staff that can do all this work, maybe kind of get the number of persons living with disability, maybe the particular community in a particular area. And then I look at a day to them whereby you have to put in place everything that is necessary, remove all barriers to ensure that they come in. Because what happens with disability gets into a place to collect their PVC? And then there are like 500 of, you know, neurotypical beings like us waiting to collect their PVC. There's no seats available for them. There's nobody ready to stand up to give it to our seats to the person that are just coming. Depending on the challenge. Depending on the challenge. Well, I'll be lean pain using a walking stick, visually impaired. But then the person waits for 30 minutes, 45 minutes. The body is already not the same. Basically probably need to live. So if I go into the collection point to get my PVC and I didn't get it that day, how, you know, happy will I be to go back the next day, knowing what I'm going to face there. So I'll say to them, if we really want people with disability to be involved in this election then I can declare a day. Okay, today, let our persons living with disability go to their, or any offices and get their PVC. So we know that that day is for persons living with disability. Priorities will be given to them. They will get their PVC as early as possible and they can leave the place. On the day of election, the same thing also applies. They get in there as early as possible because their votes immediately they get there. People will be, you know, when they experience this during this election. By the time the next election is coming up, we do need to do any further, you know, recentization. They'll be much more happy to go out to vote. So like I said, governments have their own path. We individuals will also have our own path to play. Is it collective efforts to ensure that persons living with disability does not continue to be stigmatized? So the issue of political apartheid is not just, you know, what we experience entirely, but there's also, we can say that a lot of persons in the society, especially those living with disability have been excluded from the political process because of lack of provision and being sensitive to their needs. So categorically, now that you have mentioned some of these issues, but you know, in all the light, general inclusion in society, what steps can the government take? What steps can individuals take? What steps can different stakeholders, you know, take to ensure that persons living with disability on every other day are not discriminated, they are included? I think the first step is we should move away from words into action. You know, most times we spend a lot of time talking, holding stakeholder meetings, town hall meetings, trainees, what have you. Let's move away from that point into action. A lot have been said already. Can we start, you know, involving practical, say for example, government, we have policies, we have rules, we have laws guiding persons with disability, but are they being implemented? Can the person with disability, whose rights has been violated, take it to court and can it be acted upon? And the case has not been dismissed. Oh, it's just a little case, let us dismiss it. In terms of CSU, can we also provide, you know, other supports for them? For example, you get CSU also outside doing an election process, you get to a polling unit, you see that you do not have enough facility, can it be provided immediately? Individuals, when you get to the polling unit, you do not just, you know, you're not taking about yourself only, you're also trying to ensure that the next person with disability either in front of you or at your back is also being carried along. So I think we should move away from words into action and implementation. I tell you, I say this all the time, most of the things we are trying to fight for, most of the things we are trying to talk about, if government should make a policy, a rule, and it's been implemented, we will not be going through all this tracing game because if people do not act on it, then we can take it up from there. But if, you know, all these things are not being done, we just continue to have this discussion all the time. And then awareness, the more people are aware, I think the less stigmatization we'll have, people should learn to understand that people living with disability do not pray for it, they do not ask God for it, it just happened. And you know, when it happens like that, we should accept them and make provisions for them. Well, Omotoke, we have to go at this point in time. Thank you so much for making our time to talk about this very important category of peasants in our society. And as we inch closer to the elections in February 2023, it's important that we make provision for the inclusion of these peasants who are Nigerians. And I'm sure that that would, you know, do the magic for, you know, the numbers and the figures that each political gladiator is anticipating to win the elections. And that's the size of it. We take a break. When we return, we'll have some more conversation. Please stay with us.