 Welcome to Global Connections. I'm Grace Cheng, the host of this program and I'm joined here today by Dr. Jennifer Lynch, research biologist at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, as well as Dr. Brenda Jensen, Professor of Biology and the Dean of the College of Natural and Computational Sciences at the Hawaii Pacific University. And our topic for today is the science of pollution in the Pacific, which is perfect as Earth Day is this Saturday, so we'll be talking about all of the collaborations between the NIST and HPU's Sciences Department. So welcome to you both, Jen and Brenda. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the program today. And this is a very eventful week, so it's great to have you here talk about, you know, what we've been doing as far as the sciences working on relation to the environment on this the week of Earth Day coming up on Saturday. So I'm very excited to hear about what kinds of works you're doing today together between NIST and HPU. But first, let's hear a little bit about yourself. Jen, you're working at the National Institute of Science and Standards and Technology, or can I just say NIST? Yes, please. So yeah, what is NIST? NIST is Federal Science Agency and we are responsible for setting the standards for any kind of measurement, and that includes time, length, width, or weight, and it can include healthcare measurements, so in biology and chemistry. And I'm inside the Chemical Sciences Division, and we have about 162 people that work for the Chemicals Division, and 12 of those are scientists that travel out here and work in the US Pacific Islands. So we have a Pacific Islands program within NIST, and I'm the only one that lives and works here in Hawaii. Everyone else is on the mainland, and my office is at HPU, so there's a direct connection between the two institutions. And the 12-member team at NIST out here in the Pacific, we focus on three activities, and one of those is archiving environmental samples in a state-of-the-art cryogenic specimen bank. And so it's just like your bank, you put money in, we're putting samples in that will grow in value over time, and then someone in the future who may have a biology or a chemistry study, they can withdraw those samples and use those for research. For things we can't even think about right now. So those samples become more valuable. The second thing that we do is develop methods to measure chemicals better, and that doesn't necessarily only mean chemical contaminants, but chemicals in general. And so that's another thing that we do. And then the third activity that our Pacific Islands program does is withdraw samples out of that specimen bank and answer research questions for the region about those. And those kinds of studies have, they range from things like ocean chemistry and how ocean chemistry is affecting coral reefs, all the way to measuring chemical pollutants in things like seabirds, sea turtles, and marine mammals. Oh, yeah. I mean, these are all very important issues. I think we've been hearing it, especially about the coral reefs being damaged by changes in the water quality and so forth. So important work. And has NIST always been in, how is it at Hawaii Pacific University? No, not always. No. I was relocated here to Oahu in 2014, so fairly recently. Okay. And when I first moved out here, I was in the NOAA facility out at Fort Island. Okay. And moved over to HPU in 2015, I believe. Okay. Yeah. So Brenda, how has HPU's sciences program been working with NIST? Like, what kind of collaborations have there been? Yeah. So our collaboration actually started in 2010. And Jennifer, when she was based in Charleston, was one of the original collaborators with that group. And so we actually have been, the mechanism for our collaboration is a grant that's issued from the National Institutes of Standards and Technology. And so we have been able to benefit from that grant to be able to support students and research projects that have actually been great opportunities to benefit from the science that NIST brings to the table. Their state of the art analytical techniques enabled us to take a look at the specimens that we had in hand and that we were able to go out and actually get from different indicator species in the Pacific to be able to take a look at what is the contaminant burden in some of our key species here in Hawaii. And then that also allowed us to capitalize on some of the specialties with me and with other scientists that are on the science staff to be able to enhance. We brought our own research to the table to go along with those analytical numbers. Yeah. So I mean, this is really important for understanding what's going on in the waters around us and the environment around us. So what are some specific examples you can tell us about some of the collaboration and the research between HPU and NIST? Yeah, I'll jump in first. Really, the collaboration started because of our the sample set that was actually in hand that actually came from the stranding network. And so Christy West as stranding director actually had a suite of samples that had been collected prior to our collaboration with NIST. But that was a big program that we wanted to get started. And since then it's grown to be different species. But from that original work, we actually had a Masters of Science and Marine Science student, Melanie Bachman, who actually was able to publish two first authored papers from the work actually analyzing the what we consider to be now legacy contaminants. And so there's both Jen and I have a bit of a background in organic chemical analysis. And so the organics that we were looking at for this study actually have been they've been they're not legal to use or to deposit in the environment for a very long time. In fact, about 40 years, they've all been outlawed in the United States. But yet they are still cycling in the environment. And so we wanted to ask the question because nothing had been published in Hawaii for about 40 years. And so we wanted to ask the question, what are those levels now in the species that are swimming in Hawaiian waters? And it was very interesting to learn that our sample size was about 42 animals and about 17 of those animals were pushing thresholds for reproductive toxicity and immunosuppression and all the things that we've continued to worry about with this suite of contaminants. So the meaning of legacy contaminant is that's a contaminant that was that was used before they were outlawed. And it still remains in our environment in the waters. Yes. Okay, well, I'm getting intimidated by the science. I went to math and science high school, but that was high school. But yeah, that's so is there another example? Sure. Yeah. So that's an example looking at the marine mammals. And I you know, I think that one is a sadder story because those marine mammals have very high levels and are at levels that we're very concerned about. Another example is another student from HPU traveled to Charleston to the Hollings Marine lab where NIST has its state of the art analytical lab, where Melanie Bachman also went. So there's actually been seven Hawaii students that have traveled to the mainland to do the analysis. And so that's a really nice collaboration that we have going on its education and its technology transfer is going on. So in this particular example, we looked at the Hawaiian green sea turtle and fibropeplomatosis. And I'm sure a lot of the Hawaiian population has seen these very ugly visible tumors all over the Hawaiian green turtle. And fortunately, the disease is declining. But it's still a very mysterious disease. We know that a virus is the thing that triggers the tumor formation. But the way the disease shows up in certain areas and not in other areas makes scientists believe there may be some kind of environmental cofactor, some pollutant or something that is making this set of turtles get the disease and not this set. And so for four decades, scientists have speculated that environmental pollutants may be playing a role in this disease. But it hadn't really been tested robustly with science. And so through this HPU student, Frannie Nelson, she came and she analyzed a bunch of Hawaiian green turtle samples for 164 organic pollutants. And what the results showed is, in fact, these compounds do not seem to be the trigger for FP. So that means that scientists can stop speculating on that and focus on other things that that might also be the cause. So it kind of shifts our our attention to something else. I'm curious, how do you how do you gain a sample from from the sea turtles? That must sounds very challenging. It is challenging. So for the sea turtles, we we collaborate with other researchers that are out in the field, working with these animals. NIST doesn't go out and actually try to do the sampling. We partner with other people. And so in that case, we partnered with NOAA, Hawaii Preparatory Academy over on the Big Island, and USGS as well. And so those researchers are out there actually catching the sea turtle while snorkeling or with nets in a safe way. And they're permitted to do so. And then the the turtle is brought on the shore onto a boat and then blood samples were taken for that study. Okay, yeah, yeah. So this is this is great to hear how much collaboration there is across different institutions and really to help the state. So some in very concrete ways. We all have to work together. There's so few people in science and such a big need. We have to we have to come together. Really, so few people in science, you think that we could really boost our our, you know, Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you say? Yes. Interest. Yeah, self serving as the sciences. But yes, we need more scientists. Yeah, trained up more. There's always more questions than we can possibly answer. And there's never enough funding. And there's more students coming and asking for our help than we can can give because we're so busy with everything else. And more graduates looking for jobs that are needed. The other factor is that a lot of our species here in Hawaii are protected. Yeah. And so it's it's not a we have to work together because we want to make sure that we've got every species and species needs taken care of. You know, there's a lot of permitting that goes in that are involved in accessing these organisms. And we want to make sure that we're doing the absolute best protecting the species that you know that doing that job has to be done properly and with specific methodology. And so we we are fortunate to have a lot of experts on Island, and particularly with NOAA colleagues. Yeah, that's great. I mean, these these national science organizations have the technology so that seems like that that bit of the collaboration is really key, right, to give other institutions access or able to to work together using that. And I mean, it's particularly important like hearing what you're, you know, discussing about how how some of these, you know, the research, for example, with the sea turtles and the tumors, I mean, there's a there's a definite methodology that that is and you know, there's standards behind how we eliminate these hypotheses. I think, you know, it sounds like this is something we need more education of. I mean, in the in the popular popular media, I don't think we appreciate enough how much goes behind the scientific testing and yeah, science is hard. Yeah. For instance, when Franny came to Charleston to analyze that sample set of sea turtles, it took her three months to get the data to a point where she could come back here and then explore the data and analyze it. So it takes a very long time to get the answers. Science takes persistence. Yeah, yeah. So what are some ways that this has helped Hawaii so far, like that we might know about some of the collaborations between the US and HPU? Well, I think that actually shedding light on some of these questions about contaminants has actually been really a great thing for Hawaii. It's been great for our students who are participating in the research. We've already kind of talked about how great the training is and how wonderful it is to be able to have our students have access to state of the art techniques and be able to address the questions that hadn't been touched in quite a long time. And sometimes that's surprising to students just how much how many of those basic questions are not answered because it takes such a huge amount of resources to actually address the questions, especially like I said with those protected and hard to reach species. Yeah, sounds like it. All right. Well, thank you, Brenda and Jen. So we'll come back in a minute and finish up this discussion. All right. Thank you all for joining us. Stay tuned. We'll be back in one minute on Global Connection. Aloha, my name is Justine Espiritu. This is my co-host Matthew Johnson. Every Thursday at 4 p.m. on Seantech, we host the Hawaii Food and Farmers series. We like to bring in folks from the whole realm of the local food supply and agriculture, anyone working on these issues, any organization or individual that has plans or projects. What kind of people have we had on? As we've had farmers, we've had chefs, we've had people from government, larger institutions, everyone who's working to help make Hawaii's local food system that much better. So you can see us every Thursday and join the conversation on Twitter and we hope to see you there. Aloha, welcome back to Global Connections. I'm your host Grace Chang, joined here today by Dr. Jennifer Lynch of the National Institute of Standards and Technology and Dr. Brenda Jensen, the Dean of the College of Natural and Computational Sciences at Hawaii Pacific University. And we're talking about the science of pollution in the Pacific. So welcome back to the program. Wonderful conversation about the collaborative work between NIST and HPU on studying the environment and all these factors that might be contributing to some problematic changes. So interesting to hear about your past collaborations and what about some ongoing or future projects that you have in store? Yeah, I'd love to talk about that. You know, NIST and our Pacific Islands program, we are always keeping our eyes open for what kind of chemical measurement needs are here in the Pacific region. And they don't necessarily have to be environmental pollution. We can study things as diverse as say drug discovery from marine organisms or chemical needs of the aquaculture industry, which is a big part of Hawaii's economy and even human health. But we're not going to walk away from the environmental sciences either. And I can say we have some interest in looking at chemicals in water. Water is a big concern for human health and with our drinking water needs and also our wastewater problems here with sewage pollution into the marine environment is something that NIST is considering and looking at as being important for something that we help with here in the region. But the thing that we're doing right now is looking at marine debris. And we've talked about legacy pollutants that are pesticides or industrial compounds that you can't see these chemicals, but plastics we all can walk onto the beach, pick them up, see them, feel them. And so we really everyone can see this impact. And you know it's an increasing threat to our ecosystem and I would say our Hawaiian economy because tourists come here to enjoy the beautiful living coral reefs and the beautiful sandy beaches. And marine debris threatens both of those. And so it's something for us to really take seriously and really look into. And HPU students and University of Hawaii students have been working with me to measure the amount and the type of plastics that sea turtles are ingesting. So the sea turtles that are swimming out in the pelagic ocean and these turtles are being sampled all the way from north of Hawaii to just north of American Samoa. And so they're captured on the long line fishery and some of them drown and those are put in the fish hold and brought back here for full necropsy. And we're able to look throughout the entire gut of the turtle and what we found is they eat a lot of plastic. It's quite striking when you see it with your own eyes and you hold it in your hands. They don't dissolve you can actually still see them. Yeah no the plastics do not dissolve in the gut of any animal. No it's a very persistent material. And so what we found is that the olive ridley sea turtles every single one of them has eaten some plastic piece. The green sea turtles are eating the most and so there are some species differences that are interesting. And the newest thing that we have going on is Melissa Young's master's thesis at HPU. She's actually identifying the plastic polymer. So if you look on the bottom of your water bottle it has a little recycle code with a number in it. There's I believe eight numbers and each number identifies what kind of plastic that is and tells you whether you can recycle it in your area or not. Well when we pull these out of the turtle they don't have the little symbol on it so we use chemical instrumentation to know what kind of polymer it is. And people might wonder well what's the importance of doing that. And the reason is each polymer has a different density in seawater so some are going to sink and some are going to float. So which are the ones the turtles are eating. I see. And which are the ones that are ending up on our beach. So the the polymer type and the density can tell us how these marine debris pieces are moving through the ocean. It can also tell us certain polymers will have a different affinity for persistent organic pollutants. The chemicals that Brenda and I have spent our careers studying those pollutants will absorb on to these plastic pieces in the ocean. Really. And then an animal eats those it's another potential source of being exposed to these compounds. And so the different polymers will soar different organic contaminants differently so that's important to know what polymer the turtle is eating. And the other thing is just simply to say hey it's mostly this plastic and this plastic so that society can make changes in production or use or waste disposal. Like let's start recycling the ones that we're finding in marine debris. There may be incentive to keeping them out of the ocean. Right right because particularly important since they do tend to be the what gets into and ingested by the sea animals. Oh wow. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah this is I mean this is really important work that I think we're this is something people can can witness themselves because they see a lot of that debris around on the beaches and hopefully we can address that so I mean as far as what people can do to help or get involved in these kinds of efforts. Even if they're not scientists or if they are or you know burgeoning young scientists. Yes and this is this is definitely one obvious thing that Hawaii I think is very good at is our beach cleanups. That's a very tangible way that we can go out there and just take something that shouldn't be floating around being ingested by a marine organism. We can actually pick it up off the beach and get it out of the way and you know get it to where it should be away from the environment. You know and just using less. Yeah being able to be aware of our own habits and and be aware of our own role in the economy just to try to have less of less waste in general and that's a huge challenge and sometimes it feels like what can I do as one person but if more people are thinking about it more people are doing it more people are using less then it certainly is something that we can we can together make an impact. Collectively together all making small changes can can make a big difference. Yeah yeah and I mean the public education about this I think is really important and so you know we have Earth Day coming up on Saturday and there is a March for Science that will be taking place in in various cities including in Honolulu. So is there anything anything being planned for for us here and on the islands on Saturday? Well we've got a huge important lineup for science on the HPU front. We're actually at the Hawai'i Loa campus we're hosting a stem event so for stem awareness for girls from sixth to ninth grade to come and do some hands-on exciting get them excited about all the different things that they can do with being a stem major and and aiming for stem careers and that'll be in the first chunk of the day and then of course the March for Science is from three to seven at UH and HPU two of our colleges the natural and computational sciences and health and society are actually have endorsed the event and we will have booths there and our robotics club will be there and we will have hopefully representatives you can come and meet a scientist. There was an interesting statistic that was put out recently that pointed out that many people felt like they did not know a scientist that they couldn't name a scientist that they this is like 70 percent I think was the figure that 70 percent of Americans did not know or could not name a scientist and so we'd like to change that. So the organizers of the of the March have done an amazing job I think they're going to have a very great event and so everyone should definitely come. Great great yeah I mean even though you're super brilliant people but you're not scary but I mean you're doing a lot of interesting things and that you know like it seems like there's very different you know different roles that everyone can play whether they're in different aspects of the sciences or different kinds of research or as members of society different kinds of actions they can take and be involved in. Yeah yeah I definitely support the March for Science I'll be coming out and coming to the booth to to spend some time there and just coming out to support science in general I think is is something that the community can do just to say science is important you know we we all are living much longer because of science and the medical developments that science has brought and we live such a happier higher quality lives because of science so yeah and and Brenda you mentioned STEM science technology engineering and mathematics and this has been something we hear a lot educational institutions have been wanting to promote you know students involvement and investment in STEM research do you see that this is you know this is mostly what from my what I hear you know it's coming from the education sector and do we see kind of support for that beyond within the education sector support for helping to grow STEM support STEM this is a really important time we're in a rather I think awkward time where our politically science I don't think is has a very solid grounding right now and so we've got a lot of important questions of that as a nation that we need to address and so I think it's all the more important for those of us that are in the STEM fields to be able to express why this is so important you know why these questions need to be answered why our economy depends on all of these STEM fields and why our society you know needs to care about these issues and so it's really important so if you're if any any young girls are out there that are interested in participating in the event on Saturday it's sponsored by the AAUW Honolulu chapter which is the American Association of University Women and the event is called a tech savvy okay wow thank you so much Brenda and Jen for joining us here today on global connections and for talking about the science of pollution in the Pacific and all the research that you do and and thank you for doing that research and so I hope for the opportunity yeah thank you for having us thank you and and for those of you who've been tuning in thank you for joining us on global connections today and check out the events that on Earth Day this Saturday that Brenda and Jen have mentioned and see you next Thursday at 1 p.m aloha