 All right, we do have quorum now. I'm seeing 9 of 11 of the TSC so Dan if you like we can go ahead and get started Yeah Thanks to everybody for joining. Once again all our welcome here the hyper ledger technical steering and elsewhere within hyper ledger I think I will let you Todd just go ahead and run down the the agenda here and I have anything additional to add Sure sounds good So diving in with the first topic quick reminder event reminders next hackfest is in about three weeks now in Montreal just have to remember summit. So please get registered for that I think we've got around a hundred already. So really fantastic numbers there and I know Tracy and rye are both working with the technical community on Agenda planning for that. So if there are things you want to hear about hack on topics you want raised or things You want to present on please get that dropped in there and we'll get that Massage into shape for for the hackfest the APAC hackfest will be the week of March 4th We're working on the details for that, but please hold that in your calendars for now and The last one We'll continue to remind everyone hyper ledger global forum December 12th to 15th in Basel Switzerland This is our flagship event for the entire hyper ledger ecosystem. So technical tracks business tracks Tons in that working workshops, etc. So definitely make the trip out for that and With that I will hand it over. I believe to Tracy or rye to talk a bit on hyper ledger community health so I guess last week we started the Conversation about the changes that we made to the the charter We didn't really have a whole lot of time to talk So I think this is really opening up the discussion to see what else people might want to Comment on I think the last meeting we were talking about Whether metrics actually did make sense versus not. So, you know, obviously the the group was thinking that Maybe metrics only made sense in order to help develop kind of Best practices and move towards community growth, but then It seemed like last week. Maybe we were taking a step back from that. So, yeah, I think this is really just open discussion Let's let's hear some more thoughts and see what else we want to do about this particular proposal So I think it's important to have something You know, I probably a working group makes Make sense Might not have to be a meet every week kind of thing or But you know, I think we've seen a couple projects where okay, you know fun Staffings going away from some companies So what do we want to do to keep the project going or you know There's been lots of conversation about how do we encourage more people to join Specific projects or working groups that may need help So I think it's important that there be some mechanism to deal with that The exact implementation, you know, we we can figure out but a working group seems to make sense to me Thanks mark. I know something that's important to me is Making sure that that we do look into not just the Sort of the the aggregate Population like or are we are we able to help drive contributors? but also Are we are we doing that in a way that's that's reaching all the potential contributors and so that's Why I think it's important to have diversity listed on there specifically So I've I've added that I know that there was some thoughts initially that let's not get too prescriptive in What we'll work on But I do think it's important to have that on there specifically Yeah, I think that's a good call out Dan to that and I've also reached out to My human resources department and so you'll see a name down at the the bottom of the list from interested parties and that's that somebody from Intel with with PhD in in Looking at how diversity recruitment impacts organizational growth and I'm wondering if that's something that I Would guess maybe the larger companies have these kind of resources that they could draw upon but certainly Smaller companies that would guess also have people within them that that have these kind of skills and I think one way to look at this is We see a technical area that that needs development and we're able to recruit in Developer resources we we see technical documentation needs we we recruit in technical writers This seems like a place where we can be recruiting in people with human resource talents to make sure that We are developing a healthy community so I would ask that that For the participating companies here the member companies and those that aren't member companies If you think you've got some expertise within your company for this this might be a Different way to contribute than than your company's been contributing so far Yeah, I mean That sounds like a great idea Dan and diversity is a hard issue, right? I mean, that's that's something that's not easy to solve I mean, I'd be happy if this working group helped with like easier issues like when do I schedule my phone calls for for a maximum participation Yeah, definitely. There's all sorts of aspects here whether it's geographic diversity or there's just many ways that we can define this there's a lot of there's a lot of low-hanging fruits and you know, and I think There's a you know, just There's a lot of stuff that this could potentially work on and I just I think there's a lot of There's a lot of hesitancy about kind of prescription and I think if we make it so that this The the interaction with the group is more that you ask the group Like if I'm a project or a working group or something I come to the group and the group gives me a recommendation Rather than the group unilaterally issuing recommendations, which I assume is what the the plan is and I think that that seems You know, I don't think that seems extremely controversial right, and I think also when it comes to things like contributor metrics That something that this body might be able to do that an individual project can't is look across all of those project reports so again not to be overly prescriptive here, but but just as an example it seems that This group could aggregate across those statistics and be able to see trends that aren't apparent from an individual project or working group so Yeah, I don't disagree with that Dan, but I I'm You know, I definitely think that there's more that we can do, you know, sort of to to to drive additional contribution and participation I'm actually Frankly, this is an open source initiative and so I'm more concerned about getting people to work on open source than getting HR involved necessarily and You know, I think at the You know while it's true that you know, we could get a group that looks across them But again, that's kind of our job here Right, and you know, we get these quarterly reports. We see them back to back It's going to be pretty obvious when you see diversity in one project is that you know, whatever Threshold and then the next one comes in and it's like homogenous, right? That's it'll be pretty obvious. I think to most of us and You know, maybe if there's a specific, you know Thing that we need to drill down on and try and solve we should You know, we could maybe convene, but I'm just I'm I'm reluctant to start yet another working group that doesn't really have a Specific deliverable, right? That's You know, this is sort of hand-wavy in terms of what it's going to deliver Now it's the focus is on okay, let's come up with a means of, you know, using the chaos Tooling to generate some numbers that can be maintained by the LF And shared with the project so that they can incorporate those into their reporting, okay Right, but that's a deliverable, right? That's That's a thing that they do they deliver And then we can you know think about does it have some other deliverable then but I'm I'm kind of I Otherwise I just see this as sort of wishy-washy. Let's do healthy things. That's that's the problem that I see Yeah, thanks for that Chris and I also think that there's a risk that we create too many working groups that are increasingly Divorced from actually generating code. Yeah, and What's what's different to me about this one is that it's And I'm not married to the idea that it's necessarily a working group, but that we are looking at something that is You know, it's underline how we how we actually Feed the code generation Mm-hmm. So the other thing I heard you say is is more specific deliverables Mm-hmm, and that's another thing that I look at when when I look at at these proposals is is will there be something concretely delivered? So as we look at these these work products Does it jump out to anybody something more specific in any of the existing bullets or any additional bullets that would? Help make these more concrete I think that's what was intended by the suggestion of having in you know, kind of a review of the Updates and review of you know, whatever community metrics that the tooling gives to kind of provide extra supportive kind of here You might want to think about this or grow this in a certain way, which I think was received as Usurping the role of the TSC and performing its oversight role on the different projects But I think was meant much more in the spirit of you know each time they run this the scan They can provide this community health report and and then as a as a working group put together some pros Which you know uses that data to say you might want to think about this or think about that Right, so it was like I think one one idea for an outcome was this kind of advice but it got perceived as as Taking something away from the TSC, which I think was unfortunate Yeah, and I think you know a lot of that too comes out of some of what we're hearing in the project updates, right? We seem to have a lot of requests for Help coming out of those those project updates, and I think that was part of our thinking as well right is like okay Now maybe here's something specific that we can focus on to help the the larger community when There are specific requests coming in And maybe this is a working group that could do that so Brian you're exactly right. That's kind of what we were thinking So yeah Excuse me I like Diane's idea that it's more of a task force That will provide actual tools to the working group so that they can run these Metrics themselves working groups and projects not just working groups and then Then come out with those numbers and in fact The work the Community promotion task force would Have a set of tools that anybody can use and The working groups and push towards the working groups and the projects these tools so that they can see for themselves and it's kind of interesting that the TSC is talking about this. Have you ever taken a look at the mirror yourselves? So, you know, this is this is a very interesting problem because obviously the ones were You know involved and standing for elections and get elected Seem to be you know people from a particular Gender and a particular you know Direction so that there is It is it is reflection of our community the DSC itself. So We can talk about it all we want but in the end This is a reflection of You know what we got through the electoral process maybe there is a way to Make a little more transparent to the electoral process itself by saying, okay This is a number of this is a percentage of people who voted for this TSC, you know Like out of 600 how many people actually voted? We don't we don't even know that And if it's so can we increase the water? percentage and diversity And how can we do those kind of things? So this is you know, it's it's a far Reaching thing and it's very wide and yeah, it has to be an effort not just by Working a task force or a or a working group But we've been I think you have a good point, but we have to start somewhere, right? So we you know, if we try too much I'm not against it. I'm not against it I'm just suggesting that it would be better that if you do it as a task force kind of thing that helps the working groups in increasing their diversity and community So I also wanted to add You know to this question of whether it should be a working group or not I don't think we should get too much into the details here. I at the end of the day I don't think it matters so much a working group doesn't have to be there forever I think the revised charter is an improvement over the previous version because it better positions of the Fits with what we have as the quarterly report what I'm not exactly clear on though is whether the working group members intend to actually kind of Inserts himself and I don't mean that in a negative way but kind of get into the different projects to have an experience of what's going on there and make some assessment so they can make some recommendation or is it really just you know Generic methodology and metrics that you know You end up developing and then you say okay These are the tools that people should use to make their assessments and make it part of their quality report well, I I do think The healthy and the diversity is important for every project and the working group However, I think it's already part of the Team co-chairing team and also the maintainer team job and also it's kind of duplicate with the TSC job And my my one concern is that their their term Healthy is kind of to generate generative so that means we it may be difficult to define exactly the working scope and Responsibility for the new working group, but that's the that's part of the charters to define what that means Yeah, the chart or give the definition. However, you know for the term or health Project health different people have different understanding and you can see everything is related to the health like of the meeting quality Call the quality or even activities, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point bella And I think most of the stuff we're talking about here is is less health and more like how do we improve our community? So yeah, I'll be more comfortable if we called this the hyperledger community improvement working group and And kind of focused on that angle because that seems like most of the Most of what the goal of this group is to do anyway is to to help the community improve Rather than Rather than measure the health Does that make sense? Do is that reasonable? I Think Chris there's a separate conversation going on in the chat channel Chris. Did you want to propose something as well? Yep, I can find the mute button. Um, yeah, so I said so so for purposes of the You know the the actual Conculation of the the metrics, you know figuring out how many committers we have and What their diversity is and and so forth? The you know in the in the proposal You know Tracy cited the chaos project, which is a sister Collaborative project in the Linux Foundation and they're working on various tooling I looked at it a while back and it didn't seem quite Ready for prime time. I'm sure it's in the six or nine months since I last looked at it It's probably come a long way, but you know, we could do like a project or a you know hyperledger labs To to actually just work on adapting that work and making any changes and so forth that are Relevant to our own needs so that the teams do have the ability to run those kinds of numbers in a consistent way that You know, we're comparing apples and apples But that would be a specific project with a specific set of deliverables and Hopefully it would actually bring additional people into the community that are writing code and You know, that's the end of the day. That's what we're trying to do here So that that was one thing that and again, I think, you know, a lot of the kinds of discussion that are you know That would be had in a working group would you know manifest themselves in the context of that project and You know and again, you know as I've said before I think again I think the large part is the TSC's job to focus on some of these things and we should be having more Conversations about this sort of amongst ourselves and and I think that the quarterly reviews have Have had a positive effect of bringing the TSC together to have those kinds of discussions in the context of a particular projects You know concerns or needs or you know in any concerns that we may have with what's going on with the project, so I don't know that that's That was just one way of certainly moving forward without just sort of having endless debate about this I think that's interesting to look at a subset of what you might be able to do with Scripting to pull out stats. I think what that wouldn't necessarily address is The other the well really most of the diversity aspects and I think what maybe could be clearer in the proposal here is Before you can fix something you need to know you have a problem. Yeah, you got to be able to measure it So I think there's a task here to figure out how we define the problem and Particularly in the case of diversity. That's where I'm thinking as a software developer. That's not what my skill is I don't know the the responsible way to collect Information and there's there's laws about that And a lot of other sensitivities So I think it'd be worthwhile to have a task force that might include people with human resource skill sets They could help us identify if we have a problem and make suggestions about How we would remedy it if we do have a problem Okay, well, it sounds like we may have rounded out a comment for today And I know we've got a number of other agenda topics So by all means we can keep that conversation going on On the mail list So so just Maybe close this out as What I heard was that From the the chat channel we're going to create a lab the bitpins going to be a sponsor and We're also Considering not kind of withdrawing this as a working group but making it more of a task force That's focused on particular items that come out of discussions from the TSE Is that right? That sounds fair to me Sounds good to me All right, thanks guys All right, great. So moving forward in the agenda next is the quarterly project updates. So we have Explorer this week This is part of the from GCC. I'll Give you an update on the hyperlogic Explorer Okay, so when when the product was started the goal of the product Let me make sure that you guys can hear me. Can you guys hear me? Yes? Okay When the project was started, you know, the goal was to obviously create an explorer that can work across multiple platforms And initially we did start with the implement support for fabric Okay As fabric evolved and the explore project evolved it was it became quite specific to fabric So in the last quarter we focused on Re-architecting the project to make it a little bit more modular so that if somebody wants to add additional Additional support for new platforms They can they can easily do so okay so That was there was the bulk of the work that went on in the last last one quarter and also we were revamping the UI making it a little bit more giving it a little bit of a look so that People whoever is using the Explorer they can use it right out of the box and probably take it to Take it to production. We heard actually from several users who are using Explorer You know, there were several feature requests that are Seeming more and more like enterprise related features. So and we didn't have the time to actually work on those enterprise features. We did open the tickets in Jira and put them in the backlog But but we haven't had the time because because we were focused on Keeping up the Explorer with the latest fabric releases Now We do see contributions from community We've been seeing lately a little bit more than previously previously. It was all just DTCC Now we do see contributions from others But not to the level that where we can add other maintainers So so DTCC is still actively maintaining this project and And we are we are seeing in a healthy activity in the rocket chart channel and we are monitoring it regularly to make sure that you know questions are answered and we keep asking folks whether they're interested in Contributing to the Explorer on the channel on the rocket chart channels. So So overall, I think the the project itself is in a usable state. It is we see we see people folks using it and At the end of this point, it's really about you know, how much functionality can it have and also keeping up with With up with the newer releases of the platforms, especially fabric We had discussions probably once at twice with the Folks who are doing the sort of right, but those didn't really go anywhere in terms of trying to integrating The Explorer that was developed for this for sort of into Hyperledge Explorer project That's all the update I have you guys have any questions Thanks part of this Dan I Think I recall for some earlier conversations there there might be some interest from From your wing of developers to be looking at new problems that are outside the context of Explorer I Is that is my recollection correct on that? Yes. Yeah, so I mean because the Explorer right now is It is usable project. We started looking into Into the fabric earlier. We were actively involved in fabric for SDK and chain code so we are trying to get back to some level of expertise so that we can start contributing to the fabric but Other than that, you know, that is still that is still Right now a work in progress Is that what your question is today? Yeah, and as I'm thinking through this and I also remember there's some interest in in looking at interoperability problems so I guess the the guidance that I'm I'm meandering towards here is thinking about well Do you think about doubling down on Explorer and making it really successful across the frameworks or think about Doing something completely orthogonal and Taking taking the talent that you've assembled around this and starting to look at some of those interoperability problems if of course those were actually What was starting to take more interest? So I think interoperability is extremely hard problem. We are trying to define exactly what that what is our interest In interoperability is we haven't had time to define the problem itself If I know exactly what problem and trying to solve it becomes easier the current project that Quilt is focused only on the the payments, right? It's really about the cryptocurrency moment, you know, between two different ledgers I I am not sure if you know, we don't have that use case right now for GTCC so So we haven't it given Given a lot of part into How we want to solve this interoperability problem Okay. Yeah, and I don't lose kind of off the cuff here son and expect you to have some some concrete ideas, but I do think it's worthwhile to Do a little thought-path finding to think about where some of those interoperability problems are or opportunities so just one or two other things off the cuff here the There's there might be things that underlie all of the platforms that there's some commonality and we can have some more common libraries And I think the the work that's already in progress with the crypto lives a good example of that and then you could also look Top down instead where maybe explore is already an example of something where you'd be looking Potentially for a tool that could call into any of the stacks And then the the third area is something that's more explicitly Integration related that's probably represented by and by quilt, but as you say wouldn't be Specifically for the the financial transactions And so that I mean Go ahead Chris No, I was just going to add that that we We have We're working on the interoperability Paper from the architecture working group and you're working on a bunch of primitives that would enhance or would be necessary to do certain types of interoperability and DVP being one of them and I urge you to at least listen in and contribute Because DTC see you know, obviously would be very interested in this topic and it's not Unfined to cryptocurrency or to currency movements since the deep part can be delivery of various kinds of assets most of them that you custody so You should be able to provide some very You know as to comments From a use case perspective on this particular topic Okay, I think one of our Architecture guys, I think they probably are attending the the working group discussions. Let me check with them to see if they have any feedback that they can Provide you guys plus I mean the interoperability discussion that you guys are having is going to be interest for us as well and And I'll second what Vipin said that that having concrete Data points about what works and what doesn't work what you found to be the challenges would be extremely helpful Okay Last time in the quarter report I remember it is suggested that the explorer to provide that the official Docker image at doc hub. How's that going? so The Docker images they are they are available. I just don't know whether they are posted to the Posted officially But that that work is complete Yes, it's already at the doc hub people can pull down the image from it The image are getting close push to the but But the the work in terms of dog rising the explorer that is that is done I'll double check the pushing images Okay, thanks, and I'll let you guys know any other questions sounds like not Thanks so much for together your report and and also for getting that in on time for us to review before the meeting Thank you. Thanks, Dan Looks like identity is up next. Yes, then let me post the link on rocket shot so The working group meets regularly, of course, we have a core group and a Revolving group of attendees. We have at least two or three New people every session This there there was a slight slowdown we noticed due to I believe it's due to summer vacations the most important thing that to note here is that We have Progressed quite a bit on the paper and New trends have been contributions and commons Even when the conferences We are not in conference or the week of the conference. So there is steady steady update of the paper with respect to comments and with respect to actual contributions and I think we are We can almost smell the completion of the of the paper at this point and as with many others who have said we need identity experts from and People who have actually implemented stuff from the various DLT's to contribute We have a solution for this problem now, which is by having Prepared a bunch of questions. We are going to either directly or indirectly interview the the experts in these projects so that they don't have to show up and and actually modify the paper because Previously we noted that Nobody came even though they all said they are interested in contributing. So we're going to push them a little bit with the active interlocution and asking questions Which are very going to be very pointed and direct and Identity working group is one of those groups of that are foundational and hence attract a large variety of people from various technical and non technical backgrounds and a wide variety of companies Last quarter last quarter we presented we had colleague present on the domains of identity paper and We use that as a through line in stitching the various things that we describe in the paper together and We also get regular reports from People who are in the identity field And are attending the numerous conferences that go on Last week we had a presentation from I've been who Did present here the TSC and We felt it was an identity related problem. So they presented their Their vision and then also they got back some feedback from people in the legal community From Europe who were on the call. So it was kind of interesting that this has become a forum for These kind of discussions as well and The I band P project will be applying for a lab state status as well We want to finish the paper very soon hopefully There will be a rough draft either before Montreal or shortly thereafter of course, we will be Asking for help to polish this up with the tech writer In terms of diversity We do have a healthy and vibrant community but You know, we we try to do some rough measurements of gender diversity of participation in the cause I can say it is in the range of 20 20% or so and which Although not ideal you know We need to boost that by making it making welcoming New participants and encouraging them especially in that area to stay around and contribute And as you saw that we have several leaders in this in the identity movement and also in the projects were women and They are able leaders and we welcome their contributions In terms of geographic diversity, we have quite a bit of participation from Asia Europe and Hopefully not hopefully but sometimes it's used as a proxy for For You know other kinds of diversity we do have A lack of participation from Africa. I think there were a couple of gentlemen from South Africa, but also that's in America so We would encourage The people who are actually creating the identity solutions in the DLT is to show up because There is a unique perspective from the user angle to be had from participation in the identity working group and With that that's any questions commons Yeah, Vipin. Good job. Have you thought of maybe doing something at the hackfest in Montreal? Where you know either like a separate session we can pull all the developers who for each DLT together Or maybe do some interviews there Talking you're muted. Am I I mean you cannot hear me. I can hear you now. Now you can hear you. Yeah, I was saying that That once we have the questionnaire Which actually is you know, not not even a questionnaire sort of say It would more of a guide to a conversation For an interview so I might conduct some some of those interviews With people from the different DLT's if they are present in Montreal and add that to the you know to the paper myself So that's that's the plan. Thanks Mark for that suggestion Even thanks for spending some time Talking about and keeping diversity prominent and how you're thinking about your working group Switching to the deliverable aspect So your your main deliverable is is the paper and you're kind of marching down towards the the end of the the road It sounds like on that. What do you think that the community will get out of that paper? The community will get something like a complete Survey of the different identity activities Specifically targeted at the at the problems and at the DLT In general and of course, they will also get a window into how we are solving some of those problems in the DLT's that are incubated or In under the hyper ledger hot house That is the aim of the paper at this at this moment but as you recall there is a implementation aspect Which we had in the charter, but I had to Delay that because otherwise our Deliverable in the short term would be quite broad. So I folk we folk chose to focus on part one, which is basically more of Survey and also certain Solutions and you know that that's that's the idea Great and then so I assume that you've got strong participation from Indy as One of if not the main identity focused projects here Yeah, this is one of the I mean we do have Participation from Indy, but sometimes it drops off because they are very busy either pushing code or attending conferences So it waxes and wanes depending on the On what's happening in the wider identity world? but this is another thing that I actually forgot to mention that The most of the people who come to the identity working group are very focused on SSI on that end of the spectrum But we need some balance as tan Lieberman suggested that we have to represent Enterprise folks because that is the focus of the you know a lot of the hyper ledger DLT's so We would you know, we are trying to Create that bridge between the two balances between the SSI world and the And the legacy world or the enterprise world So many people did raise that as one of the one of the things that they want to work on So we have a couple of volunteers who are actually actively looking at that All right, I know of one thing that might fit in that realm There's a there's an application being built in the sawtooth framework called sawtooth next directory and there's some contributors from T-Mobile among others and They might help bring that enterprise view that you're looking for and so you probably be able to find them In the I think it's the sawtooth next directory channel on chat where if you just look around the repo You'll see the committers in there as well. Are they going to be present in Montreal? I don't know Okay Because that would be a interesting thing to talk about Since I'm planning to be there great Hi, this is Vikas I'm from CLS Bank We are building an application using the hyper ledger fabric And it's a critical application from our side and we wanted to know if we can also have some enterprise presence In this forum as you know because this is a completely open Forum for in the working group both the channels of the mailing lists and The calls are completely open and of course you can also contribute directly to the paper So any suggestions any comments you can take to those venues and I can We can also You're breaking up because I can't I can hardly hear you. Sorry I Sorry to interrupt but your audio isn't coming through I'll encourage you to connect with with Fitbit on chat hyper ledger org that might be a good way to connect If anybody else has some Questions or feedback on this update. We've got We've got a 10 minutes left in the meeting. We also want to have a little bit of discussion about the the overall report process here And then I think we'll probably won't have time for the bug bounty discussion But if anybody has some further comments, let's let's get those now. Otherwise we can switch into the next topic Okay. Thank you, Vipin. You're welcome Dan okay, um So I don't know if we've got a whole lot of time for discussion Maybe we don't need much but I want to make sure that that we are getting out of these updates what we what we originally intended We might be able to get a little deeper discussion on some of these topics if we're able to do what Both on on the TSC side and on the reporter side If we do a couple of things one is by why just role model something that I thought was great that looking back at the previous reports Our issues being addressed Our new issues being raised so that that's something that we can be doing in our own responsibility as as committee members here The other thing that was coming to mind is Are we you know, are we spending time reading through the status reports? I don't think that's was the case for today's discussions But we'll be able to get deeper into the material if these reports are provided at the beginning of the week And that gives us all a chance to actually review them so that we can come to this meeting with some informed questions Does anybody else on the on the committee have some feedback for For the project and working group update formats the way that we're going about discussing these in these meetings Well, let me ask you then. Do you think there's a problem? I had gotten some feedback that you know in some cases we're we're spending Maybe more time going through what's what's written in the report than Then having allocated that same time to maybe digging into what the issues were that were raised or Topics that weren't covered by the report that could be delved into Yeah, I mean I think that makes sense Dan if we want to Like it's not hard to read the reports beforehand if we just want to Have less of a presentation and more of a question session that might be good for everybody And I guess maybe one of the other thanks heart and maybe one of the other Minor problems. I don't think there's anything critical here, but one of the other minor problems we have had Um reports that have been delayed at sometimes for weeks And so there's a timeliness to the reporting that's you know First of all get it in on on the week that it's due as well as get it in in advance so that we can have a meaningful discussion Then I think that uh, it's a good point and uh to encourage people read the questions. I guess Uh, maybe from the tsc side, we may Provide some like a positive Help or support to help resolve those issues Yeah, that's a great point And from the new working group slash You know people who are going to help us with the community Development I think I only got the second half of that. I heard and from the new community working group Yeah, the new uh Working group Yes, yeah, okay. I follow Yeah, I think I think it's a good idea to Shorten the presentations. Um You know, I know when I've done them in the past, I'm not reading it verbatim, but You know, I'm going through You know, I don't know if it makes sense to move the reports to more bullet items versus You know a text or a document. Um, or just you know, maybe there's both There's you know a written out text and then as a As you know, the chair or something I come up with. Okay. Here's this, you know, three bullet points I want to make sure I get across during during the call to Yeah, and I'm not so concerned with restricting the time as much as making sure that we make the best use of the time I'm all for doing homework ahead of time So I see that we've got uh quilt and the performance working group on the docket for next week So probably the goal for both of those projects would be to get the the updates in sometime monday and then that will give Everybody a chance to review them before thursday You know one one thing I'll add is the apache software foundation Their board has monthly calls where they review about 30 project reports each time because they have like 350 different projects and so They check their agenda into version control. Um, kind of like the wiki um, like we do I guess and then they um Before the meeting they the board members know that it's their job to review those reports And if they when they when they review them and they approve them by putting a little plus one in checking that as a vote essentially there's a Confirmation that they've read it and understand and accept it as a report into version control And then when they actually do get on a phone call and talk They only talk about the exceptional cases or the ones where there's really an issue that needs kind of raising um, which is what you have to do at that scale, I guess, but uh It's a it's an efficiency that would be kind of interesting to see here That sounds like a great idea if we can implement it We can implement the voting on a blockchain I know indy has plans to do voting on its platform okay, well If there's no other comments there, I think that's uh discussion has run its course. So Uh, it looks like for next week in addition to those report outs. We will at least have Some discussion to be had on the bug bounty. So if you're not caught up on that from the mail list Please take some time to do that over the coming week And then uh, probably something else that we could have some discussion on next week Is a little bit more Planning on what we'll actually be doing face-to-face In uh, Montreal All right. Well, uh, I think that probably concludes things here. So thanks for everybody's participation here and we will talk again next week All right, thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Thanks. Good. Have a nice day