 You want me to start out, Kathy, or do you got it? You got it. You got it. I did it. So good morning, everyone. Today is the, I think, April 28th meeting of the Elementary School Building Committee. And thank you all for joining us on this momentous just before vote occasion to try to start talking about what we do next. So my first order of business for the day is seeing that we have a quorum. I have to make sure all the members of the committee can see and be heard. And then I will be turning it over to Margaret for the content. I'm just going to call out names as I see them on the screen. Sean. Yes. Phoebe. Good morning. Tammy. Hi, yes. Jonathan. Good morning. Angelica. Good morning. Elisha. Here. Simone. Yes. OK, we do have a quorum. And I will then turn it over to you. Ben just joined us too. Ben. Hi, Ben. Good morning. If you could let us, he's connecting to audio. Can you let us know if you can hear us, Ben? And we can hear you. Ben. Yep, I'm here. Hi, Rupert. Can you let us know if you can hear us and we can hear you? I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Good morning, everyone. We're good. We are good to go. So, Margaret, I'm turning it over to you to do the quick agenda, but also just to do a report on the MSBA meeting. Yeah. OK, so here's the agenda. As Kathy said, we'll talk a little bit about the board meeting this week. But the main event is talking about how we're going to organize ourselves for design development since the MSBA board did vote to approve the project. So let me just say, while I'm sort of pulling up another document, as Kathy let all of you know by email of the MSBA board did vote and approve the project, several others were approved at the same time. Kathy, as someone who was new to the event, do you want to comment on how it felt and who spoke? Sure. Well, I thought it was great. It was nice to see it approved. And the first shock was the way they put it up on the agenda. It didn't look like the same number we've been looking at, but it turned out it was because they think of it as two pieces, the core piece and then a contingency. But it was interesting because they were very positive about the project. I mean, they really liked what we had proposed. And then we had both of our state reps. Mindy and Joe were there. And they spoke about their strong support and eagerness for the school. Mindy in particular just was glowing about the school. And Mike spoke about the support in town. So what was interesting is the before part, the new people who are the groups that are one step before us were coming up with their estimated costs. And there was one that was about the same square footage as ours that is $30 million more expensive than ours. So you're seeing the board is commenting on how high the costs are and the potential need to start to help from outside sources. So that was a quick exchange of information about what they were seeing and what they call the post-COVID construction costs of pretty much everything. So yeah, so Morgan, what I was raised at is how quickly it went. And it was unanimous though. So fast. It went really fast, yeah. I mean, I will say to my knowledge in the time that I've been doing this, there's only ever been one vote that they didn't. That was not a unanimous vote. So it's once the staff has approved it and it's fully set for the board approval, I tell people to we're good. I realize that I overlooked making sure that Cassenia, who works with me, was properly introduced to all of you. So some of you have Matt Cassenia, she's been working with Sean on things like the cash flow and the propay, the getting the billing set up and some other things. So, but she's going to be a regular feature of this project as we move forward into the next phase. So Cassenia, do you want to just say a little couple words about yourself and your background so that everybody knows who the heck you are? Sure, exactly who I love as a person. Hi, it's nice to meet you all. Cassenia. So I have about 20 years in the industry. Half of it was on the construction manager side and half of it is on the OPM side, the latter half. So I have a pretty good knowledge of whether bodies tend to be varied and how to keep contractors honest as we go through the process. Anybody's any bodies? I'm sure not here. But I also have a very high level of expertise in project financial management and reporting so that as we go through this, we can make sure that you are seeing what you need to see to give you like comfort and confidence in what's going on in the job. So, well, I'm looking forward to working with everybody. Thank you for having me. And I just want to say, Margaret, bringing her on when we putting up, I don't know how many PVP have gone on the new and improved website, but the frequently asked questions and answers got longer and longer and longer. And because of Cassenia, we have them because... I just put them up there, Kathy, like the lady in the team. No, you asked good questions too, because it was a good way to learn about the project. So it was... It was a great way to learn about the project. It was a great one. I'm like, that's the way, from now on, that's how I want to be introduced to all projects. Thank you. All right. So just as a sort of closing on the MSBA board thing, I thought it would be interesting to just take a peek at where we are relative to others. So this is that, the construction cost data that I've shown everybody before and the projects that are sort of here are the most recent ones. So here's Amherst, right? Kind of in the middle of the projects that are coming along. And I definitely would encourage you to sort of keep... You can always look here if you're trying to remember basic data. It's just MSBA construction cost data. And it does sort of give the context for the project. So that is really all I have to contribute. The main event, as I said, is to talk about next steps. So I'm going to turn this over to Tim and Rick. And I think Donna is not here today, right? Yeah, Donna, that's correct. Okay, so the floor is yours. Thank you. What we did want to talk about is the schedule briefly as a justification for, we sent around a rather packed list of meetings that we hope we can get scheduled and start talking about the various elements of the project as we move into DD. So I'm just going to share that schedule with the project. So this is the positive vote that happened this week. Shortly we expect the positive town vote, which will allow us to move into DD. And then you see that there are four months. Three of them are June, July and August for a school project. Just having the back of your head is maybe a difficult time of year to get input. So which is one of the reasons that we have front-loaded the meeting schedule. And then at the end of DD, we will be in a position where we can have the project well enough along that we can start filing for all of the approvals that we will need filing an NOI with concom going before planning commission. And then all of that will happen at the beginning portion of CDs. And then at some point during CDs, we will likely have an early site package. And all of that will allow us to go out to bid next summer. And then also noted on this schedule are the cost estimates at the end of DD, 60% CDs and 90% CDs. The 90% estimate is a good month before the end of the CD phase just because of the way the MSBA process works. With each estimate, there is probably three weeks of working and another week of reconciling. So I'll call it a month. So to spread these three estimates out between the end of DD and a month before the end of CDs, you only get a few months between them and we like to have them evenly distributed, if you will, so that any information that we get to them that causes us to react within the project, we have enough time to do that and work it in the most efficient way possible. All of that is a sort of long-winded way. And to get us to why we wanna start so early to make sure that we have enough time to do all the filings that we have to do to get all the information we have on the documents just to make the process go as smoothly as possible. And anything that does come up, we can work within the schedule without being too compressed at either end. Tim, can you and Rick kind of give a kind of very high-level description of what sort of big picture you is the intention of design development versus construction documents for folks who may not be familiar with those terms? I mean, I think everybody's seen schematic design. Now you can see in the rear of your mirror is trying to determine the scope in order to determine a price you can base the funding agreement on, but these two phases have their own goals. So can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Schematic design basically takes all of the elements of the puzzle and puts them where they're gonna be and gives them the size. So you have the general size and shape of the building. Now we're gonna get into each of those spaces and work out I'm reluctant to say detail because that gets into the final phase, construction documents, but the design will be further to the point that you will know how you will enter an exit each room in very specific detail. You will know where the finishes start and stop, what the ceiling plane is like. We'll be getting into floor patterns. We'll be getting into the final locations of all of the fenestration, which we've done a lot of study on, but there's still certainly work to be done. It is an advancement of the design essentially to the point where we are confident that there will not be large changes, which allows us to, as I said, file for planning commission with the confidence that there will not be any changes. Go before the building commissioner knowing that there won't be any severe changes that would change his understanding of how the building works from a code or functional point of view and allowing us to file with the conservation commission knowing that the calculations on stormwater control will be representative of the final design. I don't know if you want to add anything to that, Rick. Yeah, well, you know, people have been doing this for a while. If you have watched mission creep at each phase, you know, schematic design now looks a lot like design development looked like 10 years ago just by having to get so much down to get good estimates so that you can get good funding. But there are still moves to be made in design development. They are large moves on some areas. I think that we have a lot to talk about on the site, probably more on the site more so than the building because of some of the discussions and need to reexamine certain elements. But also at the end of design development, there will be some things that will be clearly in construction documents in order to submit the NOI. The storm drainage system is going to be calculated. So it's kind of a... The NOI being the notice of intent. Right, to the concom. So that's with hard calculations and having engineered the system. You know, we're going to want to fully engineer the earth work in design development. So that's going to be advanced faster. So there's a lot going on. There's a lot of reacquaining with the discussions that we had at the end of schematic design. And that's why Tim laid out this pretty aggressive front end loaded meeting schedule to have all these discussions. Yeah, I mean, I also think of there being although I don't think the committee will see as much of this, a lot of other work you're going to be doing is with the building systems. And just as a reminder to everybody, we did end up taking longer in schematic design because we moved the submission date out to sort of accommodate, to make it work with the MSBA schedule date. So the schematic design period ran a little longer. And this period, I would say for a typical design development period is a little compressed and is falling at a time of the year that it can be harder to get together for meetings. So that is kind of a preamble to where we're headed next, which is to talk about the schedule that Denisco has laid out. So any questions before we move on to the next bit? I see Sean has his hand up. Tim, now that we're getting closer, I think I might have asked this in the past, how will changes in the building code and things like that impact this timeline? Do you think it will have a major impact and potentially cause delays or is it something you already kind of know what's coming? Well, we know what's coming. We don't think it will affect the schedule at all. We are reasonably confident that it will not affect the design of the building to any great extent. So there are two ways that the, let me just back up a little bit so I can give a complete answer. The major concern or area of uncertainty with the adoption of the 10th edition of the code and the associated energy conservation code is the way that they calculate the energy of the building is used. It's slightly different than EUI. The methodology for calculating that was only recently released in Thornton study has been examining it and only within the past couple of weeks, they feel that there won't be any real changes to building systems or the envelope that will come out of that. And that will be certainly one of the topics of discussion at our first sustainability subcommittee. There are also some ways within the building code that you have to account for continuous insulation and things like that when you do the exterior envelope conflations. And that might require a little bit of insulation in the exterior walls. And but that shouldn't affect schedule. It won't affect overall complexity. It will just be a little bit of course trading if you will, if we have to buy a little insulation here we may have to trade that for something else. So we don't think it will affect schedule. It may affect complexity a bit and we may have to react but we think we have a good understanding and we should have a full understanding during DD because that's when the code will be released and all of the methodology will be published. Thank you. So can you also send this to us after the meeting? Just so we can see this to, you can do it just as a snapshot. So that'd be great. Yeah, and I'll put it in a minute. Great. So on to the work, working groups. So, yes. I want to say just one thing first, Tim, as you go into this, there's a separate memo that clusters these into three overarching subcommittees of this committee, a building, a site and a sustainability and we've got sustainability set up. There are four people on it. So once Tim goes through these pieces all of these pieces can have other people joining us. They will be public meetings. We may make some more informal but I want everybody to be thinking about which one of these meetings or building site or sustainability you wanna be on and you don't have to raise your hand now but I'm gonna be asking people host meeting to send me preferences so that we can get these set up as quickly as possible. So just, Tim, you can go on but I just wanna have people thinking of this. This is us. This isn't just a, it's not all of us. It's not all 13 of us trying to meet on each of these days. Okay. Sure. So the way we have this set up we have essentially weekly called them working days in May outside of the school building committee and on those working days we have the site design subcommittee. We have the building design subcommittee and then not meeting weekly but at least once a month depending on it would be the sustainability subcommittee. So just starting with the first meeting that we have set up for the site design we've talked about the changes. So there's gonna be reduction in hardscape outside the building. How we work that into design is gonna be something that we're gonna want impact on or input on immediately so that we make sure we're moving in the right direction. Actually I'm just gonna pull up a site plan really quick so we can talk about it. We've heard multiple times that the basketball courts have to move together so that has some effect on the design and just as we make these changes given the schedule we wanna make sure that we have feedback in a timely fashion. We also have some concerns about the playgrounds being perhaps a little too close to the existing building for the logistics and phasing and making sure that they're up and running as the school is operating on day one. So there's some adjustments that have to happen there. And we also heard, I believe at the last meeting that this might not be the absolute best location for the full court basketball courts. It's essentially an invitation to bring people all the way through the site and maybe that doesn't wanna happen but these are the sort of things that we wanna discuss and nail down as quick as possible so we can move through the process. And so it will be a conversation on the site side and on the building side that starts big picture and starts grabbing pieces and zooming in rather quickly. You'll see on the next agenda for the site design meetings we have a review of outdoor learning spaces so that would involve getting some educators at the meeting to who can talk about how make sure that we have the spaces appropriately sized if they're appointed correctly and then a similar process would happen for the building itself starting with the changes and the items that we accepted making sure that we understand those impacts for the building. I think we did a pretty good job of covering it when we made the changes and accepted the items but we just wanna make sure and then there are a lot of things to be resolved in the design of the building so it's just gonna be a step by step iterative process. The way it's laid out here we're taking discrete elements of the building we chose the cafeteria, servery music practice area first because it's a big piece and has a lot of pieces moving together and we wanna make sure that we understand it and then the next meeting as we have it laid out initially we will focus on the library so it'll be a step by step project like that taking parts of the building, working on it and then coming back to the group with they're looking for their input. The way we have this laid out is flexible maybe we can't get the people we need to the meetings on the dates that are set up here but most importantly what we wanna do is get these groups set up so that we have people to reach out to make those schedule adjustments to just understand how the process is gonna move forward. Any initial thoughts on that? Anybody can chime in, raise their hand whatever way is easiest. I will add that the building will be covered both interior and exterior so it'll be a combination of talking about how the space is function being interior design of the spaces and then on a meeting the next week we might be talking about the exterior talking about details around windows talking about the composition of the side. I mean, a lot of that we have pretty good progress on but there is a lot more detail that we have to get into we have to talk about the canopies how they're detailed making sure that they're covering enough people as they're coming in and out of the building. Angelica? Yes, thanks Tim for laying this out this is really, really helpful to see and I guess my question is for given how I think you're well aware that this is a super compressed schedule during a really challenging time. So just stating the obvious is there a ability to get some input on design issues from teachers, staff, community members at any point or would the subcommittees just be working internally? We hope to be getting input continuously from certainly the educators and staff can go through Mike. The meetings that pertain to particular areas within the building, the library, music practice spaces as it relates to the cafeteria and the stage we would hope that they would be at those meetings. The materials that will be developed and presented will certainly be distributed so they can be responded to and of course throughout all of this not as regularly as these working group meetings there will be the full building committee meeting where reports of progress from all of these meetings will obviously be made and there is opportunity for public comment and that is not to say that there will not be further public meetings as this goes on. Yeah, Angelica, Mike couldn't be here today but I think his intention was to do just what you said if this is the schedule, who needs to be there to bring them in? So it's not just a subcommittee of this committee but it's bringing in some key people and similarly at the town staff level if we're at water flows there may be some people we wanna bring in from the town so it's not just the 13 of us, yeah. Yeah, I know if I could just interact I had a specific example in mind so like parents so we recently had a meeting with the special education parents council and I was talking to folks to encourage them to come out to vote. People were excited about the project. They have a lot of things that they want to raise to make this building the best possible not just in terms of accessibility but design. A lot of us have learned a lot about design as special needs parents and so people have ideas and students have ideas. So one parent spoke very poignantly of her son who is currently graduating from Amherst High School and he said he loved Amherst High School but one of the things that made his experience challenging was the sensory experience and I wanted to know more why and so I wanted to have that young man who is graduating Amherst High School to be able to tell us what sensory wise was challenging for him and to be able to explain and I just really have worries about the compression and ability to be able to really call the public other than expect really, really busy parents to be able to attend a whole slew of meetings. Maybe one suggestions is to be able to have like a survey monkey or something that may be a different kind of way to get input if there wasn't just like a meeting attendance and reaction to documents but something that could be accessible to people off, you know, asynchronously, you know, off not during the meeting time that would be immensely helpful and I could disseminate that we're gonna have a meeting and I'm happy to spread that through our network so that you can get as much input impossible about playgrounds, about sensory, about colors and folks can talk to their learners about that. Yeah, I think those are all great ideas and this is certainly not meant to be a comprehensive list of all the interaction that will happen with the community and educators in the design. It's just the outline of the basic process and there will be countless other meetings, interactions and we will seek information from the entire community. This is a schedule of meetings but does not represent all the times that people will meet to discuss individuals' specific issues. Jonathan, you had your hand up. I was just gonna reiterate the point that you had made earlier, Kathy that at least the meetings listed on this piece of paper will all be public meetings and anyone from the public can attend them. And Tim, can you give a sense of which of these would be meeting in person here and I see you've got two on the 10th versus Zoom and I know one of Mike's comments, Angelica, was right now that teachers are working to rule so that they wouldn't be at the closest school they'd be during the day. So just the sustainability meetings, I think I heard, maybe I heard separately but because there may be charts and going back and forth with Thompson Thomasetti those are most likely to be Zoom at which they have been in the past but do you have any sense of some would be you'd be coming out to Amherst? Yeah, as we imagine it, if they're weekly we'd probably be coming out to Amherst every other meeting and that will depend on probably the availability of the participants. I would imagine Mike is certainly not gonna be available for all of these meetings for the full extent of them. So maybe the first week is virtual. We get the feedback we need to really get into it and the second week on the 17th we are in Amherst but we are certainly flexible and open to suggestion on what works best for the members of the subcommittee. Given that honestly we don't know who we're talking to yet it's kind of hard to say but as we imagined it we would alternate but we're certainly flexible in terms of going where we need to go to get what we need to get done. Maybe it's heavily toward the front in terms of in-person and then as we have more answers we can I'd like that to any input or discussion from the committee would be great. And then the other question I had is I had originally suggested May 19th as a date for the full committee and that was just because I'm not gonna be physically in Amherst and I'm in a time zone that would make 8.30 in the morning I think difficult but I'm wondering whether it would be better to have my question is I guess on the two May 10th meetings could they be done in a full committee way or should we move up the full committee to the 12th to make sure we have our subcommittees set up? So I'm trying to think of how we after this meeting get people to distribute themselves among the three and you can be on more than one and then we can have if we have four to five people in each of the three we would need if it's five, we would need at least three to be there to have a quorum if it's the formal subcommittee. So just trying to think of the interaction with full committee, Tim is what I'm doing and yeah. Do we need an action by the full committee that I assume will not happen today to make these subcommittees real? And if that is the case, we would probably want the full committee to meet again before the 19th. That is not to say that there could not, well, we could meet with members of the, we can always have a meeting with Mike or someone to discuss elements on the 10th if the committees are not set up but if action of the full committee is required to set up the subcommittees, we would like that to happen as soon as possible. I'm gonna, Sean, I don't know whether you know the rules. Paul's usually our rule person, but in the council, because of the way the charter is set up, everything's delegated to the president and the president of the council and people submit their preferences and she does her best to sort them to things. And then we get told, you know, usually you get what you want and we get presented. So I don't know whether we can use that process here with me as chair or whether we need to come together again. I just would have to check, Sean. Kathy, I talked to Paul a little bit about this. If it's just members of this committee, then yeah, I think the way you described it is fine. If it's just members of this committee then you're gonna put them on different subcommittees. If we involve outside this committee members, then it has to go through a different process. But if you're just making little subgroups of this committee that will call on advisors from the public to help with their work, then I believe, talk with Paul, you can do it. So that's a short way of saying if we wanted any of these subcommittees to have people on them formally that aren't members of our committee, then we have to go through an appointment process to fill those slots, which would slow us down quite a bit as opposed to just saying, invited to come. So those first two meetings, we can certainly also move up the 12th if Jonathan is willing to serve as chair on May 12th, if it would be better to come back together again before the 19th. That was just a tentative full committee meetings schedule that I put out, because so I'm, look, I'm fine with setting up anything. And if it's virtual, I can, yeah, I'm back by that week of the 17th. So it's not a problem. It's the first two. Any other comment, does that sit all right with people that at the end of this, do you pick any one of the three, including that you'd like to serve on all of them or two of them? And Rupert, Ben, Hathie and Jonathan are currently on sustainability. So to the extent someone doesn't want to be on one of those but wants to be on the other, we don't have to, we started with four, we don't have to have four because all of these will be advisory. They're a way of getting external input as well as our own from consultants and sustainability definitely has benefited from we've had some active public members who have come and brought information and asked and participated in the discussion in a constructive and valuable way, in my strong opinion. And there may be more. I've heard a few, there's a civil engineer who might be interested, depending on what we're talking about. We've just had some other people in town and there's someone on playground equipment, Angelica, who might be interested having been involved in some of the park designs in town. So depending on the meeting, it would just, they'd come to that meeting. So people comfortable with sending me your preferences, knowing this schedule. And then I will just email, here is the subcommittee. And then this is the meeting schedule. And I guess, Tim, you've got, Tim and Rick, you've got two on May on the same day. So are you envisioning a morning and an afternoon? Or? Again, we haven't, before this meeting received any feedback on availability of participants we could do morning and afternoon. We could do two back to back in the afternoon. Okay. Depending on it. All right, so once we get names, then we could figure out the best times to meet, in terms of, and Mike will be interacted with this with teachers and staff. And I'll give you an example, a librarian, one of the librarians sent in a comment that I forwarded up to the design team that if the STEM room, the steam room was right next to the library and the library had a door into it, the librarian could help be part of the staff at that. So it was just, it was a question because I don't think there is currently a door in the library that would do that. So it was a question about adjacencies and connections that was raised by someone who thinks as a librarian that we also do teaching. Tammy and I'm not sure which librarian sent that in, but I just sent it on to the team saying, put it on the table for something to be discussed. And there has been some question, it was raised during the VE discussion on the site of that port in place, whatever you call it rubber, that's not playground, whether we really want to have that or not. And some of the hardscape. So that would be part of this, reviewing the site because that actually would be a cost decreasing change, not a cost increasing change if we change that. Yes, if that went to natural turf, that would be a cost decrease. Yeah. So are there any other questions or more information? You know, on the three subcommittees, all I did was mush everything together. I took the list, Tim and Dinesco had given us last time and said, underbuilding all of these things or underbuilding exterior, interior, and under site, all of these things are under it. And now they've broken them back down to the specific pieces. And go ahead, Tim. Go on, Tim. No, and I think what you've done in terms of the committees is appropriate. There are a couple of basic paths and we need a group that we can work with and get just timely decisions and input, so we can make this schedule happen. And then obviously we'll be reporting back to the full building committee and it's advisory only, but we think this is the way we can make this work. You know, and Tammy, one thought was that you and Allison, could you decide between you, one of you wanted to be more on site or more on building so that we get input from staff and Ben and Rupert similarly. So it's not taking both of you or, and then the other can always come to the meeting. It's no one would be excluded from any of these meetings who want to, I want to be at that meeting. We'd all be allowed to come. And the only risk we would have if seven of us wanted to come, then it becomes a quorum at the full committee. And the likelihood of that happening, I think is slender, is slim. I mean, it's possible. But Phoebe, Ben, Rupert, any, you know, just I'm just looking for any questions, any comments on the other than Gulp on the schedule. I just like to say thank you for organizing this in the big picture. And I appreciate having that agenda ahead of time. It's like, well, there's a little bit that might concern me in grounds. I might want to go to that one meeting. So having that information in the schedule agenda is really helpful and I thank you. Phoebe. I mean, it definitely seems daunting, but I think it's kind of exciting too, that we're at this point where we're getting into talk about, you know, talk more specifics about real, real site, real building, real stuff. And I do, it feels like the 10th is right around the corner. So for me, things like figuring out really timing of these meetings, all of that kind of stuff is gonna be super important just to try to balance it as somebody who is not, you know, already sort of entrenched in these things to be able to balance that with sort of just the real life things that we all have going on. So the sooner we could figure out specific timing, all of those kinds of things would be great just so that we can plan to be at the things that are super important and we want and need to be at. So thank you. So with that request, Tim, I mean, you threw out May 10th, which is a Wednesday. Should I get people when they're sending in preferences to indicate whether the 10th is a problem with them? So if you want it that week, or is that the only day that week? I think you all said the 12th might work too, but so it's a question, as Phoebe says, it's right around the corner. So people look at their calendars and they can react to the specific days you fit, not the weeks, same, it's gotta happen that week, yeah. Well, we suggested Wednesday because selfishly it works the best for us, but if you get a dedicated group, that absolutely wants to have input and their input will be available for either one of these subcommittees and they can't do Wednesday, that's obviously something we'll have to figure out. I think we assembled the groups we discussed or they put out their preferences in terms of availability and we'll figure out when we can meet. We just set it up for the easiest possible way that we saw, but we don't have all of the information. We don't know who's gonna be there and we don't know their schedule. So I think step one would be to figure out who's gonna be in the room and then we can see if we can actually get everyone there. Okay. And the other thought I had, if we're including others, not just us, depending on what the issues are, that if four of us say we wanna be on building, not everyone has to make each of the building meetings. But, so Phoebe, what maybe I'll do is just everyone has this. I sent it to you as an attached file also, but when I send out which of the three also whether Wednesdays are okay with people, not knowing whether it's the afternoon or the morning so we can get some feedback on the actual days that Dinesco has proposed. Wednesdays happen to be a day in my life that always work. They're, just in the council meeting, my committees don't meet on Wednesday. So Sean, you will know, I mean, some of you have PAC schedules because you're not just a counselor. But, and others have full-time jobs and are counselors. So, I'm not seeing any other questions and I also appreciate, Phoebe, go on. The more input now, the better, I think, yeah. Kathy, when we're, I know, I think, sorry, let me try to talk, it's early for me. I agree that getting these subcommittees set up are, step one, I also, when we do that, I also wanna keep in mind as we're figuring out days and times, not just necessarily what time works for us, but in terms of participation of, like you were saying, of teachers, staff, all of that, but also public because these are the things that we're gonna start to talk about that we definitely wanna make sure we do have as much input as possible. As we're, you know, I mean, it will be a post-vote, those kinds of things, but we still need to make sure that we bring people from the community in so that we can have that by and have that excitement, have that input going forward, especially when we're talking about, you know, things like site and building and sustainability and all of that. So, I think really that's it this time. No, I think that's right. And it may be that we get to a point where we've had a lot of these discussions and we're getting, we've gotten a lot of input and now we have a couple of different options that we do something, a big, bigger public, something that we try to figure out a way of getting that input, you know, a community meeting. I, you know, think about it like in July, I'm just looking at the schedules that are point in July where we get enough of the nitty gritty and then do, yeah. And then we have to hope that people are, a lot of people still here are here in the summer. So, Jonathan. There we go. Sorry to find the unmute button. So the only thing I would add is I think it, I think it would be good to have a tentative date in June for sustainability, so committee meeting, at least on the preliminary thing that you sent out. I didn't see that. I saw one in May. And I think once a month is fine. I suspect though that there'll be, you know, questions and things that will come up in the May one that the community members will be interested in hearing feedback on in June or reviewing other things in June. Understood. And we would have had two on there for sustainability but we're actually still going back and forth with Thornton said, because they're not exactly sure when they will have an understanding of the new code implications or- Well, that's a fair point. That's true because the stuff doesn't really get promulgated until early July, isn't it? Yeah. Well, consider it at least, because I think there may be other things that we, you know, I know that some folks in the, not beginning of the weeds, but some folks in the public have talked about plug loads and things like that, which perhaps we could discuss, you know, not quite independent of the code changes, but at least parallel to it or initial conversations on that. Absolutely. There are certainly a lot of meat on that bone for lack of a metaphor to discuss. And not all of it, as you say, has to do with the upcoming jump, there's a lot. We also have to discuss, you know, working with the town's bylaw. So there is a lot and we will get another meeting on schedule. And some of it, Jonathan, I think it also interacts with building, you know, if we're talking about windows, if we go back, we have to go back and look at windows, whether it's the south side windows, do we need as many of them, you know, or whatever. Yeah. Absolutely. The value engineering item that we accepted to reduce the first floor elevation has a slight effect on the window to wall ratio. So we may be adjusting some penetration sizes, not in a major way, but, you know, as we go through all of these details, there are a lot of things that we need to talk about that touch both the sustainability and the building, so. Okay, so I'm not seeing any other hands up. So I will send out after this meeting, I'll get Margaret's help on formatting it in some way, but a way of saying, here are the three committees, pick one or pick two, and indicate whether that Wednesdays in general are okay. And right now, I didn't hear anyone say that not to keep Friday the 19th as the next time we meet together, which seems like a particularly good time now because there's several of these subgroups we'll have met, so there'll be something meaty to talk about rather than just a planning meeting. So that may continue to work well if we can get all of these others. By then it will be one, two, three, four, five, five different discussions will have happened before the next meeting, which makes sense. And for the subcommittees, you know, there is a simple way, if we're doing them on Zoom, we've been staffed by Angela Paul, staff person, and she just sets them up for us as Zoom. If we're going to meet in person, we have to find a room and we'd work with Mike or Paul to find a room, maybe at the middle school, and we have to post an agenda, but the agendas can be as simple as what you've just said, unless that can be the agenda on these, these are the two things that'll be discussed. So we can handle that. We have to post it 48 hours in advance. So, you know, once we get this rolling, we can, we can post all of them actually, you know, we can, once we figure out times of day, so we don't miss, I early on in this experience failed to meet that 48 hour time thing and had to cancel a meeting. So I will try not to, I'll help, I'll help with all of that and the staff. I do anticipate that once we have a meeting, the agendas of subsequent meetings will probably be adjusted, but certainly as a starting point, these are where we hope to begin. Yeah, one of the clever ways, some person who posted them all worked with me said, continue earlier committee's discussion, you know, I mean, to make sure it was all the encompassing, right? So any other comments or questions? Okay, then I'm going to open it for public questions, comments, suggestions, and I see hand up and I'm... Actually, Kathy, can I just ask one question? On the agenda, you also had the future dates. You had August 18th as a question mark. So what I'm planning to do, I don't know whether we need to sort of just check with people to make sure we have quorums for those dates, because if we do, I would send out invites, whole invites to get them in everybody's calendar. Okay, and I just suggested those. So if anyone... Can everybody see those? I can pull them back up. That'd be helpful. So if anyone has problems with those, I just tried to space them four weeks in a couple of places there, five weeks apart because the month was longer. So I put question mark on August and I was trying to avoid high holidays or first week back from school. So people can... You don't have to say it right now, but if any of these dates are problematic, they're all Fridays is what I picked and about four to five weeks between each. And Dinesco team, what are you planning for design development submission? We currently have the end of August, but it's not tied to the MSBA board. So as we get into this, we might want to adjust it a little bit. It would be no later than September, mid-September, probably. And we don't... Just to be clear, we don't need a vote for the committee to submit, but there will be an estimate at that time that we would want to look at with you. So I mean, I think August 18th, we may have to change these. So these are finding me as a placeholder. I just want to make sure everybody understands that in there, there is a submission and an estimate or a estimate and a submission. So... Yeah, without getting into a very detailed discussion of schedule, August 18th is given that the committee will want to review the cost estimate or at least be aware of it. Obviously, they will want to review it in detail before we submit to the MSBA. August 18th means that you'd be in the middle of July starting to prepare for it, which is not that far away. So... So you're saying that August 18th may be too soon for a meeting, is what I think I'm hearing? No, I think Tim's thinking about the when to make the MSBA submission. We probably need to have a consultant conversation about this to kind of fill in the blank on this, but my guess is that the August meeting would be where we would discuss the estimate. Tim, right? Yes, but having it done completely reconciled by August 18th might be a bit early. So maybe that may be the meeting months to move a few weeks later. But so, yeah, but that does require a fairly in-depth discussion of all of the moving parts and when we can start and finish them. So we'll do this, Margaret. You talk to people, to them, and then that August 18th may be a week later. Yeah, I think what I'll do, yeah, I'll send out invites for the May 19th, June 16th, July 14th. I'm not gonna send in invites for the last two because they're gonna interact with this estimating process. If that makes sense to everybody. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so now we have invited one person in to talk and Bruce, if you unmute, we welcome you. Okay, Cathy, thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. I'd like to talk about the public engagement of participation in the subcommittee meetings. I know that Rudy Perkins, Chris Riddle, and I have participated in the sustainability subcommittee meetings and we've been at the outset of the meeting, we've typically been invited in as panelists so that we can participate at the discretion of the chair, which has been Jonathan. And that has enabled us to be more useful, indeed, far more useful. And I'd like to have some assurance that that practice would be adopted or continued. Of course, to have the, I suppose to have the right hall or the whatever it might be called to participate in that way as a member of the public, Paul might say, oh, you have to be appointed. And that, of course, could take months. And I would hope that that would not be the case if the chair would have discretion to invite attending members of the public in as panelists. Is that a reasonable expectation that that would continue for the sustainability subcommittee particularly? Since we're not supposed to be responding to public comments. That's fine. No, but I do think, Bruce, that the goal here is to get as much input as possible. So we will figure out a way it has worked well in sustainability, definitely, particularly because people have come in who've had a depth of expertise in different aspects. So it's been productive. So we can certainly, I've had a couple, one name suggested on playgrounds that if that person wanted to come, that would probably be a useful person when that's being discussed. So we'll try to figure out a process that makes that work. Thank you. Now, Sean, I don't know how to undo him, but there's, we have to, can you- I can move him, I'll move Bruce back. Okay. Tell me to pull on the next person too. Yeah. So I'll hear, I pulled Rudy in. Okay, Rudy, you are with us if you unmute. Hi, Kathy, you know, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Oh, great. I know I'm gonna be, I'm jumping the gun a little here and we'll be a little bit of a tired drum, but I've been doing a lot of door-to-door talking to people about the project and on the phones. And so I've heard a lot of anecdotes about the existing schools. And one which relates back to the subslab insulation question, which I think really needs a really hard look, was stories of the Wildwood School being so slippery on its halls that I think people call the slippery floor days or something like that, when they had a hot humid days following particularly cold stretches, I guess, on the shoulder seasons. So I think it would be well advised to talk with the building staff, you've probably done this, but about the floor condensation issues that have occurred in the existing building and then take a real hard look at subslab insulation, whether that might be worth the money as insurance against that happening. Because the other issue that comes up frequently in talking to people is moisture in the buildings and mold or perceived mold, which obviously relates to the condensation and other moisture issues. So just as we go forward, I hope TT and Dinesco are really scrutinizing that subslab insulation question hard and carefully. Thanks so much. Thank you, Rudy. And that it's probably a combination of sustainability and building in terms of the way you all are talking about it and interacts with other potential. Since it's a cost-increasing, there are some areas on the site. So thank you, Rudy, very much. And we have one other. Bruce, I'm gonna assume your hand is just up from before. Maria, I brought you in if you unmute. Now I seem to have also brought Tony in. So Maria, then Tony. Thank you, Kathy. I want to emphasize Bruce's point. The subcommittee meetings for net zero, the ability to participate as members of the public. I mean, I've been at those meetings too. I think they've been extraordinarily helpful. And I would like to see that be the case with the others as well. Angelica talked about other folks having an interest in building design. And I think that's the best way to do it. Just have everybody be able to participate. Along those same lines, I didn't see the DD schedule or the potential meeting schedule for the subcommittees in the packet. If you could post those as quickly as possible. So members of the public can have an idea about when these are happening so they can do the schedules. I know, Kathy, that you're going to have to maybe change those schedules to a degree, but as soon as any of those dates and times are known, could you please post that site so that people can be aware and can attend and give their input? With respect to the site, during schematic design, we did talk about that there are a lot of people, not just, I'm not sure who you're referring to about the playground, but there were a lot of people and a lot of sports organizations and community organizations that had input that they really wanted to give on the site. So it's important for those members of the public to be able to participate fully in these subcommittee discussions. Thank you. Yeah, it looks just on posting, Maria, it looks like there was just a miscommunication because I sent them to be posted, but I will post them right after this meeting. Thanks a bunch for that. Hey, Tony. Sorry, I didn't have my hand up. Thanks. Okay, so then we will undo you. So I certainly, I sent them out to everyone. People should just let me know if they can't retrieve those, but I tried to make sure everyone had the word documents and I will get these posted and then I will, right now we're just set three meeting dates up and Margaret will put hold. So I don't think there's anything else for today. And we will, of course, well, everyone will know the results on May 2nd as soon as we know them, since everything is contingent on that being a positive vote. And I think that is it for today, unless anyone has any closing comments or questions. So if not, thank you all. And I guess we will, some of us will be reconvening on May 10th and then others on May 17th and then all of us on May 19th. So that's the world going forward as we go into a very dense, condensed set of inputs. So as PB said, it's exciting. It's kind of daunting, but it's totally exciting. So thank you very much. And we are adjourned at whatever time it is. 938. 938. Thank you, Margaret.