 Welcome to another edition of Celebrate Life. My name is Gary D. Carlos and I am your host again today. The inspiration for this show is really the amazing people that live in Vermont. I hope through this program to interview a lot of people from all walks of life. Behind the show and the reason why I have hosted this now for six, seven months is that I prefer to have people tell me their story while they're vibrant and alive rather than reading obituaries of these wonderful people that I wish I had met while they were alive. And I believe strongly that everyone has a story. And if you would like to be interviewed by me on this show, please write me at Celebrate Life 0747 at gmail.com and I'd be glad to put you in the queue and get you on the show. Also, if you have a question for our guests, please write me and I'll relay that over to our guest and have him or her respond to you and get back to you. Well, today I am very happy and pleased to introduce Wanda Heinz. And many of you may know Wanda, she's been a community activist in this city. Decades and has brought much joy to people and joy to people who perhaps haven't had much joy in life. She's really spent her life dedicated working with those that aren't fortunate enough to have some of the things that we take for granted. I'd like to introduce Wanda. And Wanda, good to have you on the show. Thank you, Gary. I am so and was so looking forward to it, especially in light of COVID and not having a lot of social interaction. And so I'm just happy, happy, happy. So thank you. It's an opportunity. So Wanda, you are an amazing person from my perspective. And I was wondering if you would take the audience back in your life and talk about how you've become the woman that you are today. Okay, well, let's start with a lot of people say, where am I from or some people? Well, some people, you thought I'd been here forever. But actually, I moved here when I was five years old from Mississippi and from a Dipplersville, Mississippi. My background is one grandfather is a sharecropper and the other is a preacher farmer. We come from out in the country and my father, though, however, was in the service. And he was stationed here in 1963. And so that's when my family relocated here. And on his third tour duty, unfortunately, we lost him. And he was killed in war. And it left my mom to raise six kids alone. And so we've been up here every since in Vermont, married, raising families. And but you know what, Gary, it's been a long journey, a long time. I want to get back home to Mississippi. I still refer to his home as home. Yeah, I just and I've been in. Yeah. So yeah, ask me some more questions. I'll keep you moving along because I'll get so. Yeah. Have you been back to Mississippi during these years? Oh, yes, as a teenager, we vacationed there all the time. My grandfather, of course, would love to see us because we got to let's say, pick purple whole beans, pick cotton and just whatever he needed us to do on his farm because he was a sharecropper, my mother's father. And so yeah, no, those were some of some really joyous times as a child getting to be around family cousins, aunts, uncles. It's a different way of life. But innately fitting to me. I remember growing up being there when I was five, I remember going to the segregated school even. Yeah, you know, then all of a sudden just being snatched up here was a little disturbing, especially with it being in two different worlds. And it wasn't until I was seven or eight years old when I realized it was two different worlds. And there was this us and them thing. I remember I was at H.O. Wheeler and I fell down and I cut my hand in a bled and my classmate looked at me and said, hey, your blood is red, just like ours. Wow. What do you mean, just like ours, you know? And even though, I mean, would I want to be in the other place to raise my child, raise my family? It was the 60s. It was a difficult time with rights and civil rights. There was a lot going on. And so I think that my mother made the best decision that she could because we had come up here, she had four kids and we had two more while she was here. My last brother, in fact, was born in November two months after my father died, two months. And so again, we had six kids. But no, she raised us up here. And she's my hero. Did she ever talk about that? What life was like up here versus going back to Mississippi? No, she didn't. My mother was a very religious person, caring heart, full of empathy and caring like myself. We often refer to people on the blog as Miss Millie's because Miss Millie took care of everybody, fed everybody. If we bought friends over, we would joke about, yeah, my mom is going to change the oil in that coat while you're here because my friends came over and their coats are cleaning. Well, they were there. She would take their coats and she would clean them. And so even today in my family, I see family, nieces, nephews or anybody. I said, why don't you come on by and I'll change the oil in that coat? Or if you come by and changing the oil in that coat or something. My mother was just very caring, empathetic, very full of empathy and heart. And I believe, and when she passed about seven years ago, I found about a half a dozen Bibles in the house. She had different Bibles, all these Bibles. I always think of people having one or two Bibles, but my mom had all these Bibles. And I remember when we first got here, or even before we left as a five-year-old, that's why I remember Mississippi so much as always going to church, always going to revivals during the week. And this one song, trying to get to heaven for a due time always sticks out to my head in my head. And so I remember my mother did try to take us to church here at the Baptist church, first Baptist church, but it really didn't work out because after my father died, my mother, she ended up taking a job working third shift, the night shift at the hospital. She was also a nurse's aide, taking care of others, or the nursing homes is what it was. There was a nursing girl street at the time, it still is, it's got a different name. Yeah, my mom always just taking care of other people. And she worked at the Empire Laundry Matt also for extra money on Norfolk Newske Avenue. Even though she had all of us, she was always working. I got to really give it to her in that one right there. I think that maybe working as part of, if you need to be present in your life, I look at that, maybe that translates into that because I know I've worked all my life and don't work and because of COVID and not being able to talk to people, I say if I could just be present, if I could just be present in my life and contribute. And finally, back three weeks ago, because the job I do now, we have 28 supporting faith communities, I get before COVID, I got to go and speak at the different churches. Well, finally, I went out to Essex Congregational Church and was able to participate in the two morning sermons, services actually, by speaking and sharing. And then two weeks ago at the first Congregational Church, I was going to say to be present. And I think my mother was that kind of woman, if she could just be present. And idle hands were not an option for her, even though she had six kids. And you certainly have worked very hard throughout your life as well. And it's ironic that you would be going, you're working for Chum. And I want you to talk about that a little bit, but that's all about faith communities. And as a young child, you grew up in a strong faith community yourself. Yeah. And didn't know it, well, didn't realize how entrenched it was. It wasn't until years later when I was director of the Chittin' and Emergency Food Shelf, and I was there for 12 years, I would do public speaking as well. And I would go to churches, but I noticed whenever I would go to the churches, I would get emotional just and I would end up staying for the whole service. In one church I went to, the Presbyterian Church, it used to be on Redstone campus. I started crying. I got so emotional. I didn't know. And I had to stay after and talk to the preacher, Reverend, whoever said, Hey, you need to help me out here, something's going on. And you know, I don't know if you have to be totally religious, but I do believe that we all have a purpose, a calling, something that calls us. You know, I think oftentimes when we have a tragedy in life, I don't, that's the closest thing I could compare it to. We have a tragedy in our life. Sometimes we don't think about it. We just respond and we're present. Yeah. You know, you don't think about it, but you're just present. And I don't know how I feel whenever I get into these churches, something just, and so having 28 churches was just kind of ironic. I don't belong to any of them because I've never been baptized. And so when people say, well, what church do you belong to? Whenever I go, I go, I belong to 28. I got 28 churches, you know, and I get to go, you know, and it's, I just need to remember to kneel, speak, now go. And I sit through all the sermons and services and it's most peaceful. People say, but you're working on Sunday. I said, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. Yeah, it's, you know, it's coming home a little bit. Isn't it? Yeah. And I feel that now, and lately actually because of COVID, what I've been doing is I've been live streaming the Southern Baptist churches in the local community that I grew up in. So I've been tapping and, you know, reconnecting with family. I've kind of really pretty much decided that, I mean, those last 18 months were difficult emotionally for all of us, I believe. And this time I'm saying, you know what, I'm going to really be a lot, I don't know, I'm going to try harder to reach out to family, to reach out and connect and to be present there. And I say that because I don't know, the COVID really kind of made you kind of thinking, like I said, it was a silver lining. I hate to say it. It was a great time of reflection, reevaluation, to see where you are. What are your priorities? What is your purpose? How can you control? What do you really want to be doing with your life? You know, it's kind of also, we see that though, in the way that some people just aren't going back to work, you know, they're better, they have a greater value, you know, and so it's interesting. We're in an interesting time, you know. But it's not the first time we've been in interesting times, you know. And so I was talking to my sister the other day, she's down in Mississippi, she was trying to start the big re-migration back home to Mississippi. She's down there right now. And she said, even though it's red, red, red with COVID, it's like, Wanda, you got to learn how to move through it. We have to move through it anyway. We have to live through it, she says, have to live with it, live through it. And then I spoke to a cousin this Sunday, and I asked her about it right there in Chippewsville, Ripley next down over. And I said, well, have we lost any family? Near family? She goes, no, we haven't lost any family. She said, in the bigger cities, maybe a couple in the, but not out into the country, smaller towns or nothing. No, it's not like it's, like I said, it's an interesting time, but we've been here before, whether it's a smaller community and larger community, and we need to just learn how to live through it, move through it. Oh, Wanda, in your life, you've lived through the civil rights movement, women's movement, people rights movement, certainly this pandemic. What has, what has all that meant to you? We've, all that to me is, I wouldn't say meant. It is what it is. That's all I can say. Life is a series of cycles, and we move through it. And what I've learned is don't let it exhaust you, that you need to self-care. That's what I learned. That's what I learned from the time that I discovered us and them and, you know, are walking in a, yeah. It's about, I learned that there's always going to be something. And I think that what we can do, we can control how much of that weight we're going to carry on and sometimes to step back. For example, over the last couple of years, especially over the last few years, I've been asked a lot to come participate in these diversity, equity, inclusion training. I just turned down one this week, a couple of weeks ago, and I say, no. I look at this and I say, there's absolutely nothing that I feel that I need, that I would want to go there for. And I've been doing this year after year after year. It's a same, what did they say? Same soup, different pot. That's all it is. We've had this conversation. I've had this conversation. And so I think it's for the leadership, the current leadership, the younger leadership. And I'm not old by saying, but I've developed enough sense to come in out of the rain. I've developed enough sense to self-care or know how or knowledge. And I think that there are other things that I need to do. Because it's a cycle. It's going to keep happening. Oh, here comes that same soup again. Oh, look at that pot. Different pot. Yeah, go ahead. Yes. Because I think that that's everybody's challenge or call. I think that we all should be participating in our lives. It may not look the same. It may not feel the same. But at the same time, I think you need to know when maybe you're not going to have the impact unnecessary. Because you've got to look at, I think about people of color. We started out of colors. My grandparents get colored, yellow. Well, how about colored, negro, black, African American people of color. And personally, I just found out about BIPOC, that the new terminology over the summer, I was like, what's this BIPOC thing? And I had to look it up. So one of the time for you to just go, yeah, so I'm going to take my knowledge. And if anything, Gary, I do do a lot of one-on-one private consulting. Individuals would come to me from the BIPOC community, from the people of communities. And I will consult with the one-on-one, but I say, I won't come speak or be on a panel. Or other community leaders who are white allies per se will reach out to me and I'm like, no, I'm not going to be on your panel. No, no. If anything, the last time I tried to be on one was about three years ago. And I got just so frustrated and mad. I was just so, it just really messed with me. I could feel the stress. And I said, this isn't healthy for me. This isn't healthy. Why did you get frustrated and mad? What was happening? What was happening was, it was the same whole conversation. And in the heart, if you're pursuing their stories in the heart. And like I said, I have empathy. Mm-hmm. That hurt. And I couldn't just, he might just, I've had 30 years of being just, no, you know, it's like fire. You know, after a while, the child learns I can put your hand in that fire. To me, it's fire. To me, it's not good for my health. So I need to say no, but thank you for the invitation anyway, but I need to not help you for it. That's what I learned. There are other ways that you can help. And I wish there was some of the insight that I'm providing now that I did have while growing up. And so now I'm sharing it. I think that as an older African-American woman of color, it's my responsibility to share that if somebody asks or needs it. And then you're doing that one on one with people. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And also, you're out there in the community. People see you. They see what you do and you're with your life and what you've given to the community every day. But I want to point out that I've grown and has become more diverse. But the thing I love most about my job, it's not about the cultural diversity. It's about, now it's a faith diversity. And there was also actually certain kind of little discomfort from the whole faith community thing too, because I got 28 churches with them. I like that I don't have to go into a room and talk about race and be the expert and be the, I just like the idea that I can be present in my terms. Yes, yes. And I love my job. And I feel like I'm right where I'm supposed to be. And I love it. Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. Now I have a question for you. So you've talked about self-care and taking on, thinking on what you can handle in a given time and situation and being able to say, thanks, but no thanks. Or yes, let's do it. So you ran for mayor. And you were willing to take on something quite big at one point. What was all that all about? I ran for mayor because why not? Why not? Why not? The other side of this, you know, I ran for mayor. Also, it was a reconfirming moment for me. Also, you ever go through life and you just think, you know, everything, okay, that was me. Okay, that is me. No, you think you got to figure it out. But then again, if you've been around long enough, you do kind of figure it out. Me running for mayor was about filling that void. There needed to be somebody there to bring that discussion at that time. And so I said, hey, why not? And it was also about professional development for me. Okay, I thought about it that way. And it was also to reconfirm what was behind the curtain. And it was everything I thought it was. It was everything I thought it was. And it didn't make me angry, but at least I was better informed how I needed to move forward or those around me that I could share. And again, sometimes people take a semester, they'll take a course for the summer. I said, you know what, I'm going to do this. This, yeah, and find that reconfirm. And when you start looking at politics, there's a way of thinking. There's a way of responding, but it's also, it's about alliance. It's all about your allies, but most importantly, it's about the money. About, and I remember my first debate sitting on stage at UU, Unitarian Universalist Church. And it had started. I said, I could beat these guys if I had the money. Yeah. And also though, it's not just the money, but also what was most impressive about our mayor, Mario Weinberger was he had a team of minds, young minds with technology and messaging that was just so very impactful and impressive too. And so I didn't have that team, but even though I didn't have that team, that didn't bother me, but it was still a learning opportunity to see. At the same time, I didn't need that team to see what was behind the curtain to really kind of understand and inform and to really kind of think about the impact. If I wanted to carry that, because people still ask me today, hey, Wanda, when are you going to rush for mayor again? I said, well, you know, right now I'm, you know, and my other priorities were family too. But no, I'm looking at it as professional development. I think I'm caring for my community and being present and maybe just vetting, up close vetting of these two individuals. And why not? Why can't I run? Yeah. Right. Exactly. What was behind the curtain? What did you? I was going to ask you, what did you find that was behind the curtain when you were running? Politics. It is about the politics. It's about what you know, who you know, the money. It's about also being able to compromise the give and take. Yeah. It's about having the leverage. But it's also about the team. It's about the team, really. I think our mayor has had the most forceful, skilled, knowledgeable, connected. You know, he's always had that team. It's about the team. I don't think that, I always like to say, you don't have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be the mayor, let alone a president. And so, yeah, it's the team. But I think your team needs to be on message and joined in purpose too. That's the thing I like about the joint urban ministry project. It was founded by five downtown churches who said, who noticed the uptick and need. They said, you know what? We need to come together, pool our resources so we can better serve economically disadvantaged families. And that's been going on now for 32 years. Now we have 28 churches. That's what that is about. I mean, I'm not the sharpest tool there. We have volunteers, people who have high degrees, graduates, professors, and it's about that team. And so when I think about purpose and reward and being present, I feel I'm just as present and most impactful as I've ever been right now. That's wonderful. So speaking of teams and your own personal teams, so to speak, who are some of the people in your life that have influenced you to become who you are today? The people who have influenced me most have been Gretchen Morris, for example. Gretchen Morris used to be the executive director of the United Way for years. No. Well, what does she do first? She was United Way. You know, she was secretary of human services for a while for the state. Well, Gretchen Morris, she was the one that I could sit and have a conversation with one-on-one about the challenges. Sometimes I would say something wasn't fair. I don't know, garnish resources. I remember my first year as director of the food shelf, I got picked to be on the Speaker's Bureau, which means to go around Chittin County and talk about the need. In that first year, I got Speaker of the Year United Way. That was just another word. In Southern expression, I could talk a dirt road down to a path. I like that. Anyway, and I was impactful. Anytime I would go to speak, she would be present and she would acknowledge that. I think I spent a lot of my earlier years, and I would say as a woman as well, we don't get the acknowledgement. We can be in a room with a bunch of men. Somebody would say something. Yeah, it's almost good. She was the first one to really kind of acknowledge me. Before that, actually don't let me lie, the mother of all mothers for me was Jane Nodell in my early, late 20s, because I had an opportunity to serve on the Enterprise Staring Committee. The Enterprise Staring Committee was in 1994. We had that common ground strategy. The City of Burlington was awarded $2.75 million to work over 70 physical, social, and economic-based strategies in the Old North. I was on the Staring Committee, so that was the first time I really kind of began to understand, because it was connected and administered through the government structure and how it worked. The beginning revealing back. I learned from her watching that room, and it was also on that committee that started the Opportunities Credit Union, remember? Yes, yes. It also solidified the foundation for CCTV. I think there was a little bit of money in there for one of the early multicultural centers that focused on, back then, African-Americans would have been called. She was really just as far as teaching me and guiding me about what the process was, Jane Nodell. Also around that time, or even a little bit before, I was privy to be present the Women's Council. I got to go to some of the earlier Women Council meetings, and one of my strong mentors is Peggy Lars. I got to watch Peggy Lars and the other women on the council. I would like to say they would be butt heads, but I would be like, oh, look at those women work out from each other or anybody else when I would see them outside of the Women's Council. Yeah, I would say, yeah, definitely Peggy Lars, Jane Nodell, Gretchen Morris, and today, one of my most heartfelt mentors is Lucy Samara. She's with the First Congressional Church, jumped right into her ministry project. She's one of the early founders and organizers of Jump, and she's still there. Lucy has been kind of that console voice of reason, I think, on my interfaith path, because I don't belong to any denomination. She was one of the first people I went to. I said, it's a weird happen. I was up at a church and because our past cross before Jump, I had known she was from a faith community, but our paths that cross on some other kind of community are socially bent. And so I knew that she was a good listener to Lucy and I'd been honored. But when I kind of had this emotional overflow at that church, I went and I spoke to her about it. She goes, well, maybe wonder, there's a different type of calling and purpose or something. And so she helped me sort that out. And it's ironic, then 15 years later, I ended up being the director of Jump, the joint urban ministry project. And I get with her all the time now. Yes. And we can't forget that your grandfather was a minister. My grandfather was a minister. Yeah, preacher Todd, Todd Hine, yes, he was. Yep. So I come from a line of preachers and it would be ironic over the years I would go home to Mississippi, even as an adult, representing the Heinz lineage here. And I go, I represent the Heinz for the Green Mountain State Vermont and I would get to speak at the church. Unfortunately, it was my father's brother started to die. Uncle John, Uncle Jesse. And I got to speak above the services. But the first time any of them had ever heard me speak in that surrounding, because before I was a teenager, then I come back as an adult in my 30s, they were on the phone all the way from Milwaukee to my mother. And I didn't know, you know, just I didn't know. Yeah, the churches. And the last time I was home in Mississippi three years ago, I was at the Templarsville Ball Hill Church. We got in there, we sat down and the choir started singing and I started crying. They didn't even start preaching yet. And I just, and I was just something about churches, which is why I want to, I want to, I got to get back home. I'm getting there. So maybe I want to talk. I mean, the fact that your grandfather was a preacher, what was his station in the African-American community down there? What is the role of a preacher and in the African-American community? You know what? I believe because I didn't grow up in an African-American community. I can't answer that. That's the whole problem. Okay, stuff is happening with me. I can't explain. But what I can tell you from what I do remember, it is the responsibility of a preacher or any pastor in any community, faith community. I'm going to base it on that here of your parish, your parishioners. Okay, that I know from my experience of going to my different churches here. And it's not any different in the Baptist community. And so I mean, that's your responsibility. You know, I think of Martin Luther King, I think of Jesse Jackson. These are our men that their community was much larger than a small faith community, but they had that presence that they cared. Yes. Can you think about the African-American community? I think about the havens where people would go, you know, to, I don't know, to pray. I just remember a lot of revivals. I went to a lot of revivals. Other than, you know, two, at least twice a week, it seemed like I was always at revivals. And it was, revival was just not in one church. It seemed to be travel a lot. I just, yeah. Anyway, let's move on, because I'm starting to get emotional about my churches now. Okay, let's talk. I want to talk about, I want you to talk about J.L. who's in the picture behind you. J.C. L.C. Capital L, Capital C. L.C. Okay. L.C. Hines. Tell me about that son of yours. That son of mine, well, let's, I can't talk about my son without talking about my sister, daughter, nieces first. Okay. Go for it. Okay. My sister died of domestic violence in 1991 after five years of domestic abuse and 74 phone calls. He finally beat her to death, her is the man she was with. But she had five children when she died, and I adopted the two baby girls, because they were also this man's father. They were 18 months and four years old, and I raised them, and I called them. This is when my sister died when she was 31. I adopted them. Yeah. So I ended up adopting these two girls, and I would always call them sister, daughter, niece, because they reminded me of my sister when I would look at them, daughter, because I raised them like my daughters, and niece, because they were claiming to hide my joy, my joy, my joy. Because before that, you ask about life and what I'd seen and what I'd learned. I had decided I am not bringing any children into this world, because by then I had discovered in my late 30s, it's always something, and it's painful to certain specific groups of people. It's painful because I'm looking out, even here, all of the girls, I've been to the people I went to school with are having these babies, and they're not even able to take care of them. This heartache, this abuse, this, I was not going to bring a child into this chaos if I could not take care of them. But when Mr. Beverly died, perfect example of, we don't question, we're just present. I didn't question, I was just present. That's right. And I raised those girls, my own adoption. But a funny thing happened by the time I was running into 40, I started having something was going on with me again, I don't know what it was. And finally my doctor said, do you want to have a child? I went out with modern technology and I had a son. It's interesting because his background, he's Eastern European Jewish, and I'm me. So he's pretty much by race. He's beautiful. And I had my son and the girls, but it was because of the love and the time I had with those girls that said, you know, and my other sister who had children who was still alive, she goes, because she always thought I was kind of like cold when it came to children. I was not being cold, I'm being guarded because you're just like children. And I had children and those girls, those young ladies, those sister daughter nieces became the joy of my life. And then I had my son and it was probably 95% kicked in. I got it. When I had my son, everything came clear, purpose, meaning, life, I would do anything for my child. And I did. By that time, I was working at the food chef. So I had the means I sent them to a private school, the Ahavi, say that preschool. After that, I sent them to the school house, which only had four teachers and about, let me see, 50 students. So he could have that one focus. LC felt very isolated. He didn't have a lot of friends. He was more content to be on the playground and talk about the gas ring around Saturn. Interesting. Yeah, okay. So, but financially, by the time he was to move to middle school, they didn't have one. He was reintegrated back into public school for his last year of elementary school, which I think was great. He needed to, I wanted him to experience a public school. My son, he's very observant, always has been. And then I remember one day he came home from school and he goes, mom, I go, yes, son, I guess. I noticed that the students at H.O. Wheeler are not as smart as the kids at the school house. They don't have access to you. And then one day he came home and he goes, mom, you know what? I noticed the kids they swear a lot. Yeah, you have to come back home. So in other words, he was a good student, but I became annoyed because they depended upon him too much for the after school programs to teach the class, the computer class. So I had to go to the school and say, hey, my son is here for academic opportunities. He's not here to, you know, he was always, I said, but there was one thing though that I didn't want them to teach him. Had to write his name because this generation, they don't write cursive anymore. That's right. It's all printing. Yeah, I said, no, I taught you to teach him one thing and write his name. And then he started volunteering at CCTV, Cameraman doing shows, but then I was working for City Hall. It was ironic. My boss had to cancel this show to see no director and he comes to me and goes, I need to cancel my show. Could you fill in for me today? And I go down there and who's doing producing the show, my son. Wow. In middle school, he's doing this, you know. Wow. But anyhow, Elsie did well. I was pretty much his counselor. I was very guarded with him. I didn't want to do city, I didn't want the Royalton High School counselors or anybody else making decisions for his higher academic opportunity. It was an incident that had happened which always bothered me about the Burlington School District. Let me just share this right quick. Not one size fits all. Sure, we are a resettlement community. We have students that don't have the academic skills, but you can't just put them all in the same box. For example, I've worked with my son, unfortunately enough, to provide him probably greater opportunities. But it was that time that they had decided that all of the seniors at the high school had to take a college prep class and it was mandatory and it bothered me and a lot of parents because, number one, my son took that course when he was in the 10th grade already, you know. And he was way ahead of his curve. And if anything, it slipped out with a counselor. And apparently a lot of the other parents were doing dual enrollment in college and that was my intent as well. No, my son would be better prepared to do dual enrollment in Champlain College. And so I went and I talked to the principal and he got a waiver, but I think we can do a better job in our school district. Don't put all those children into the same basket and think. And it's always just kind of bothered me that students who do achieve are not recognized. My son came home, he was crying one day, he was in middle school, how there was a kid who went to the Burlington Police Department, I mean, we went to the fire department to volunteer for one hour, you know, photo. And I picked my son up and he was sad, he was crying, what's the matter? Joey, you know, he went over to the police go to the fire department and, you know, he got this award for him because I've been volunteering at the Boys and Girls Club. I've been volunteering now for three years at CCTV and they never acknowledged what I was like, oh, I wrote a letter. Like I said, knowing how the things work, I wrote a letter to the diversity director, C.C., C.C., the superintendents, C.C., the principals, C.C., and C.C., I think Jane Nodell too. And they wrote and the teacher wrote me back, oh, sorry, I said, then I had to say, why is it that kids only get recognized when they do something bad? What about something good? I told you, or I had the conversation with you two years ago, my son had been volunteering at CCTV and that he'd been producing videos. As a matter of fact, I sent you those videos. Did you look at them? And I got to admit, he admitted. And so it was kind of, after that experience, I really stuck close to L.C. You know, some people might say I might have been overly motherly, but I wanted the best for him that I could. The girls by that time had been grown and gone, but I knew that as a black male, especially there would be challenges, and I wanted him to have every advantage or just knowing he'd have to be better. And it's interesting that I spoke to one of my younger brothers and he had said to me, I've got two girls and I'm glad he goes because I wouldn't want to bring a black male into this world. I don't know. These are just things that, you may not have the conversation out loud, but you're aware of them. And there are just so many things in this world that are not equitable, you know, at least now the rural district doesn't have the diversity, equity, inclusion, I forget whatever its name is now, same suit, but in a different pot. I'm not sure what kind of pot it's in right now, but I know it's there. But we can do better. Maybe the school districts are too busy, you know, but anyway, he went to Rensselaer Polytechnical Institute, Rensselaer Technical Institute, and he graduated. He just got out of the COVID 2020. He did come home in March, came in quit boy. He'd left the brand new microwave I got him. I'm never going to forget. I had to be quick. You did. Anyway, he got his degree of communication, media, and design, and he's got a job. He left me in Columbus. And it's interesting, he's the intermediate, something, whatever you're doing right there is Jordan for the mega church. That's beautiful. Beautiful. And they're looking for a full-time engineer. So kind of he's on deck, but it's a mega church. Huge. Isn't that ironic, right? Wow. Yep. And there you go. So how are the two girls doing? The two girls are both married. Sister daughter niece, Calima, she married a man who relocated here because of Katrina. Remember they sent people all over the country and we have people here from Katrina. And she met a man they fell in love and she lives down there and she's got two beautiful children. And I'm going to go visit last year, but the pandemic happened. And then sister daughter niece, Unika, Nika Pudu, she's also married and she lives down on Shelburne Road. She's got three beautiful children and her youngest just started elementary school. And no, I don't get to see the girls enough. And again, life when you're raising your kids because there is an age different and wherever I'm at, you got to section them off. And so my job is done with LC. I'm kind of like, and this COVID really peed me off because I was going to go spend time and see by default grandchildren I've never seen. I've never seen children in New Orleans, you know? And so and so I'm going to buck up and whether we have this COVID or not, I'm going to move through it and I'm going next summer regardless. If I got to stay in my hotel the whole time, I'm going. Yeah. So those girls are just so much joy. They must love you to pieces, Wanda Hines. They do. Let's move along and get my weepy thinking about the kids. Like I said, the son, he's doing well. He's a beautiful relationship with the woman he's with. And yeah, she's got a five-year intern. She's a graduate of BBM. And so, yeah, no, he's good. You know what? You want the best for your kids. Hey, my son is doing the sound for a million years. I'm happy. I'm not going to worry about him. But the girls, I want to see the girls. I want to see my sister daughter Nises. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Now, those are the ones I want to see. Now, you know, before we run out of time here, there's some things that have happened to you in a good way that I want the audience to know about. You've won some awards, my dear. I want to see awards here. Yeah. Talk about that high school basketball team. Oh, gosh, don't get me started. I can't do it calmly. Yes. I would probably say my most exciting award is in a high school, 1975-76. We won the girls basketball championship back to back. And there have not been a girls basketball championship and brought to high school since my sister Bethlehem and I played on the team. Wow. Back to back. And that was most amazing. But then I got recruited to go to college, actually, in Montreal. And I was up there and we have a, well, actually, I got a national title in Canada and I got inducted into the Hall of Fame Canadian Basketball. I'm sorry for the bunch of that. Yeah. All right. Goodness. I've got game. I've got game. You've got game. All right. Unfortunate about it is my coach years later, when we went up there to get inducted into the Hall of Fame at the Molson Center, talk about kegs. They were like, huge. And they had paid for everything. He came up to me and he apologized. He goes, you know what, Wanda? Because I didn't finish college. I only did doing two years up there. And he says, Wanda, I owe you an apology because back then you needed to have a tutor. You needed to have the extra curriculum to help making that transition. Because another thing, Quebec was a Canadian, but like French. French, right? Yeah. And going into a different country. And even though I was an honor roll student here, it didn't transfer there. And he goes, I should have gotten you the extra help, extra help. Instead, I focused on making you a better basketball player. And he did. I tried for the Olympics and I got caught toward the end. And so he apologized for that. So he goes, I should have. But you know what? I went back to college when I was 50 and I got my degree, Bachelor of Arts in Public Administration and Community Economic Development. Yeah. So I got it done. And I always tell my son as I was, as he was growing, I said, don't be like your mom and wait till you're 50. Get it done. And he did. But I mean, I got it. I got my degree and I'm happy. But get it done. I think that knowledge, I think when people say sometimes knowledge is power, but it can give you access. And I think it's better to be informed. And it's not about the money. I don't think life is about the money. I've always said on here, you ask that question, a favorite expression or motto of mine. I always say that life is a series of journeys and sometimes we do lose our way. But I think the important thing is that we find our way back. And life is like that. It is just life is a series of journeys. Some of us don't make it back. Sometimes I think of it as a gauntlet. You know, under my brother who has a mental health illness for five years, he created that genius crime at the top of a church street and took a woman's life. And so mental health illness, I mean, life is a series of journeys of gauntlet. Some of us don't make it. What we can say, I think it's important that we do what we can to help those that are lost find their way back, which is another reason I take exceptional pride in my job with the joint everyone project. If you were the one thing when I was able to speak and I hadn't spoke for a while at the Essex Church, and they gave me the floor and I looked around and I was quiet. And then what I said was, if I could just be present, if I could just be present, and I think them for inviting me there that day, so I could be present. And that's that's how we need to look at life. I could just present my life and just be. And I'm in and as we prepare again to go into this latter part, this next round of, you know, lockdown in the winter, be present. Be present somewhere. Do don't. Absolutely. Well, I have to say that I'm very present with you right now and very grateful that you're here and part of the city. Yeah, a special person on the lines. Gary, I appreciate you. You are too. You are too, because yes, you are. I've known you for a while. You doing this celebrate life is great. It's a good idea, especially I think it'll serve well, especially as we get ready to go into this next round. Be present. Be present. Yep. Anything last words you want to share with the audience? No, it's okay. It's just really nice to be able to talk to somebody, guys. Be present. Be present. All right. Thank you, Wanda. Do what you can to see somebody lost. Help them find their way back. Okay. That's what I want to be. Beautiful. Okay. Be well. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.